HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-12-08 PALM DESERT ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 8, 1999
MINUTES
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I. CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 8:10 a.m.
Commissioners Present Current Meetina Year to Date
Present Absent Present Absent
Wayne Connor X 21 2
Ronald Gregory X 18 5
Richard Holden X 20 3
Richard O'Donnell X 21 2
Frank Urrutia X 21 2
Chris Van Vliet X 23 0
Staff Present: Phil Drell, Director of Community Development
Kim Chafin, Senior Office Assistant
II. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
None.
III. CASES
A. Final Drawings
1. CASE NO.: SA 99-130
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS STUART DAVIS for CITY WOK, 73-040
El Paseo, Palm Desert, CA 92260
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Review of Highway 74
identification signage
LOCATION: 73-040 El Paseo
ZONE: C-1
Mr. Drell directed the Commission's attention to the staff report and added
that the proposed signage cannot be placed within the CalTrans right-of-way.
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CalTrans doesn't allow commercial signage within their rights-of-way. The
right-of-way actually comes right up to the building at El Paseo. The
applicant's goal is to have visibility for southbound vehicles on Highway 74
coming from Highway 111. The Commission previously reviewed the design
and found it to be unique and creative.
Commissioner O'Donnell agreed that the design is unique, but one of the
questions is whether or not an another sign is needed for this business,
because it appears that there is already plenty of signage.
Stuart Davis of City Wok commented that his business has no visibility for
southbound drivers on Highway 74 coming from Highway 111. The clocks
signs were a big mistake because they were an attempt to incorporate an
architectural feature into a sign, and they do not serve as effective
architectural elements or signage, and he intends to modify the clock signs
in the future to make them look nicer and more visible since they are
currently unobtrusive. The only effective sign currently in existence is the
building sign on El Paseo. He has spent a lot of time and money enhancing
this building, and the proposed sign looks more like a wall sign than a
monument sign because it is very unobtrusive and will be seen by people
driving up from Highway 111. A lot of the restaurant guests complain about
having trouble finding the building.
Commissioner Connor, indicated that he visited the site and has no problem
with the design, but has a problem with the height because the sign will
interfere with the roof line.
Nancy Cobb of Imperial Sign noted that the proposed sign would be six to
eight inches below the rile roof line, to which Commissioner Van Vliet replied
that he also visited the site and measured, and the sign as proposed would
come up higher than the plans indicate.
Mr. Davis stated that the point is to be visible, and if the size of the sign were
to be reduced, it would defeat the purpose.
Commissioner Connor commented that he wouldn't have a problem with the
proposed location if the height of the sign were lowered so that it doesn't
interfere with the roofline.
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Mr. Drell suggested that the sign could be lowered six to eight inches, to
which Commissioner Connor replied that it would need to be lowered more
than that.
Ms. Cobb noted that the chopstick elements of the sign nearly scrape the
ground as proposed, and if the height sign is lowered, the chopsticks will
project into the ground.
Commissioner Van Vliet felt that the sign should be lowered substantially,
and asked if the sign has already been built, to which Ms. Cobb responded
affirmatively.
Commissioner Connor suggested either moving the sign a few feet to the
north so it doesn't interfere with the roof line or lowering the height of the sign
so it doesn't interfere with the roof line.
Mr. Davis preferred to have the sign in the proposed location because that
is where it will look the nicest in relation to the building, and noted that if the
sign is moved over too far, visibility will be blocked by the trash enclosure
and some trees.
Commissioner O'Donnell asked if this sign is considered a monument sign,
to which Mr. Drell responded affirmatively, but noted that it would virtually be
a wall sign because it would be so close to the building.
Commissioner O'Donnell noted that the code limits monument signs to a
maximum height of six feet, to which Mr. Drell replied that monument signs
can go as high as 10 feet if that is what we're stuck with. Commissioner Van
Vliet pointed out that the City is not stuck with this sign.
Commissioner Holden expressed concern about the proposed exposed
neon, to which Mr. Drell replied that the neon is identical to the existing sign
on the El Paseo elevation, and added that Daily Grill and Dakota Grill also
have bare neon.
Commissioner Holden commented that the Commission has been limiting
monument sign height for other projects to six feet to comply with code
requirements, and would like to maintain a fair and consistent position.
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Mr. Drell noted that the intensity of the lighting for the proposed sign will be
controlled by rheostat.
Mr. Davis stated that the sign has already been built so the size of the
cabinet cannot be reduced, and added that he would be opposed to lowering
the height or changing the proposed location.
Mr. Drell noted that the chopsticks can project into the ground if the height
of the sign is lowered, and Commissioner Holden observed that the bottom
of the sign probably wouldn't be visible due to the existing landscaping, to
which Mr. Drell replied that some of the landscaping could be removed.
Commissioner Van Vliet observed that the plans which were submitted were
not drawn to scale, because the plans give the appearance of a five-foot
diameter cabinet rather than the actual size, which is six feet in diameter.
Commissioner O'Donnell felt that the business already has enough signage,
and expressed objection to impacting the architecture of the corner of the
building with signage, and suggested that it may be more appropriate to find
an alternate location for the proposed sign rather than trying to force it into
a place where it will not work well.
Mr. Davis reiterated that his goal is to bring more business into the
restaurant, and pointed out that this sign proposal was already approved by
staff, and he spent thousands of dollars on this sign based on that approval.
Commissioner Holden commented that it was his understanding that the sign
already existed, to which Mr. Davis replied that the cabinet was already built
for another of his restaurants. Commissioner Holden asked if the thousands
of dollars which have been spent based on staffs approval were for the two
poles and chopstick elements, to which Mr. Davis did not reply.
Commissioner Holden noted that the sign would probably work if the cabinet
was smaller, but the problem is that the six-foot diameter cabinet already
exists. The Commission has made two suggestions, i.e., reducing the height
for the proposed location or allowing the proposed height at a location a few
feet to the north. The Commission has demonstrated willingness to work
with the applicant, but if the applicant is not willing to work with the
Commission, there is no choice but to vote on the proposal as submitted.
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Whereupon Commissioner Connor left the meeting at 8:40 a.m.
Commissioner Urrutia asked about existing signage, to which Mr. Davis
replied that there are two lightly stenciled building signs on the west elevation
and two clock signs (one facing Palomino Restaurant and one facing west),
and these signs are completely invisible for all intents and purposes; so the
only effective signage is the one on the El Paseo elevation.
Commissioner Urrutia reported that he reviewed the minutes of the January
1998 meeting regarding signage for City Wok, and it appears that the two
stenciled wall signs were painted on the building without City approval, to
which Mr. Davis replied that it was there from the start, and he has no
recollection of that process, and added that one of the stenciled wall signs
is almost completely blocked by a palm tree.
Commissioner Urrutia asked which of the existing signs are effective, to
which Mr. Davis replied that the El Paseo sign is the only effective sign.
Commissioner Urrutia asked if Mr. Davis would be willing to remove all but
the El Paseo signage, to which Mr. Davis replied that he would be willing to
remove the neon on the clock faces as well as the hands on the clocks since
the clocks don't work, adding that he feels non-operational building clocks
are an eyesore; however, he would not be willing to remove neon around the
tower elements, the "City Wok" letters on the clock or the wall signage on the
west elevation.
Commissioner Urrutia stated that he doesn't have a problem with the design
of the proposed sign, but sees no reason to have a proliferation of signage
which the applicant admits is ineffective.
Mr. Davis commented that he spent $5,500 on the cabinet portion of the
sign, and the total cost, including additional sign elements, consultant fees,
etc., is approaching $10,000.
Commissioner O'Donnell pointed out that the City did not give approval for
the neon band which surrounds the tower element of the building.
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Commissioner Holden moved to approve the sign with the proposed design
with the condition that it be located three to four feet north of the proposed
location so that the point of the sign is at the high point of where the roof
overhang attaches to the roof. The motion received no second.
Commissioner Van Vliet felt that the proposed sign is too high, to which Mr.
Drell responded that the sign could be lowered even if it means the chopstick
elements will project into the ground.
Commissioner Urrutia expressed support for the proposed location with the
condition that the top of the sign be 12 inches below the rafter and that the
existing clock signs be removed.
Mr. Davis indicated that if removal of the clock signs is a condition of
approval of the proposed monument sign, he would like a 60-day period of
time to remove said signs.
Commissioner O'Donnell noted that the stenciled wall signs were not
reviewed or approved by the City.
Whereupon Commissioner O'Donnell left the meeting at 8:50 a.m.
Commissioner Urrutia commented that he doesn't have a problem with the
neon which surrounds the tower element because it's a nice accent during
evening hours, but he would prefer that the neon remain on the clock to
illuminate the clock face as he would like the tower sign restored to a clock
face.
Action:
Commissioner Van Vliet moved, seconded by Commissioner Holden, to
approve the proposed sign location with the condition that the top of the
proposed sign be 12 inches below the bottom of the rafter tails, and that the
applicant not be required to modify the tower signage. The motion carried
2-1, with Commissioner Urrutia dissenting and Commissioners Connor,
O'Donnell and Gregory (alternate) absent.
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IV. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 8:55 a.m.
PHIL DRELL
DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
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