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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002-02-26 T � � �� �•� CITY OF PALM DESERT ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION • ' MINUTES FEBRUARY 26, 2002 *�**********�*******�*�****��***�***********�*************�*�**********��*�****��,�* I. CALL TO ORDER The meeting was called to order at 12:25 p.m. I1. ROLL CALL Commissioners Current Meeting Year to Date Present Absent Present Absent Ronald Gregory, Chairman X 3 1 Kristi Hanson X 4 0 Neil Lingle x 2 2 Richard O'Donnell X 4 0 Chris Van Vliet X 4 0 John Vuksic X 4 0 Ray Lopez X 2 0 Also Present: Phil Drell, Director, Community Development Steve Smith, Planning Manager Martin Alvarez, Associate Planner Tony Bagato, Planning Technician Donna Quaiver, Senior O�ce Assistant Diane Hollinger, Landscape Specialist III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: February 12, 2002 Commissioner O'Donnell moved, seconded by Commissioner Hanson to approve the minutes of February 12, 2002. The motion carried 6-0-1 with Commissioner Lingle absent. IV. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS A. None. 1 � � � ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION FEBRUARY 26, 2002 MINUTES A. Final Drawinqs 1. CASE NO.: PP/CUP 98-16, C 98-5 APPLICANT (AND ADDRESSI: KL CHARLES & ASSOCIATES, 12631 E. Imperial Highway, Bldg. E, Suite 111, Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670 AMERICAN INVESTMENT GROUP/PALM DESERT, LLC, 301 Forest Avenue, #200, Laguna Beach, CA 92651 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Final approval of architecture for STAPLES OFFICE SUPPLY. LOCATION: 72-811 Hwy. 111 ZONE: PC-3 Mr. Smith commented that the only issue was the screening of the roof- mounted equipment. The screen wall is shown at 4'. The City requires that the screening must cover the roof-mounted equipment and satellite dish. Commissioner Vuksic stated that if the roof-mounted equipment extends higher than 4', then the screen wall needs to be higher. Mr. Smith stated that Diane Hollinger will review the landscape plan when it's available. The background area for the signs will be red with a matted finish. Mr. Smith stated that the Commission will look at the tile when they are presented with the signage in the future. Mr. Keith Charles was present and stated that the corrugated metal enclosures are green. Action: Upon reviewing the plans and presentations submitted by staff and by the applicant, the Architectural Review Commission by minute motion granted approval subject to screening of roof-mounted equipment and satellite dish. Motion made by Commissioner Van Vliet, seconded by Commissioner O'Donnell. Motion carried 6-0-1 with Commissioner Lingle absent. G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs�P,gmin�AR020226..min.wpd 2 ' `�rw►� +,�,� ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION FEBRUARY 26, 2002 MINUTES 2. CASE NO.: SA 02-28 APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS� CLEAR SIGN 8� DESIGN, 170 Navajo Street, San Marcos, CA 92069 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Final approval of business signage for Dyson & Dyson. LOCATION: 44200 Town Center Way ZONE: SA 02-28 Mr. Smith stated that Dyson & Dyson would like to vary from the sign program in the Trader Joe's shopping center. Mr. Bagato presented a color sample to the Commission. He stated that the sign program in this shopping center allows for the following colors: maroon, teal, blue or red. The applicant would like to use black reverse channel lettering with two of the elevations having gold neon lit can signs. The gold can signs would be 18". Commissioner Vuksic commented that the signs are all labeled as 18", however, the north and south elevations are not proportionate to the sign on the west elevation. Commissioner Vuksic stated that he likes the proportions of the sign on the west elevation. He suggested scaling the letters down on the north and south elevations so that proportionally it looks the same as the west elevation. The letters and can signs project 4" from the building. Commissioner O'Donnell suggested making the can signs flush with the lettering. Tod Banks, Operations Manager for Dyson & Dyson, stated that the face of the signs would be flush. Commissioner Gregory asked if the signs on all the elevations were the same height or are some higher than others? Tim Mowery, Dyson & Dyson, stated that the signs are going to be centered on the facade. Commissioner Gregory stated that when you look at the different elevations the signs are uniformly high up on the building. He stated that obviously in some cases you pretty much have to do that but wanted to know if the signs were approximately the same height if you were to go around the building. Mr. Banks stated that they were all approximately the same height, however, the sign on the west side will be a little bit higher because that facade is a little bit bigger than the north and south sides. The sign on the west side is approximately 24' � 26' in height. Commissioner Gregory commented that the maximum G:Planning\Donna Quaiver�wpdocs�P,gminWR020226..min.wpd 3 . , �rrw° `"'�'� ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION FEBRUARY 26, 2002 MINUTES sign height is generally 18'. Mr. Drell stated that existing signs within this shopping center are over 20' and have been approved that way. Action: Commissioner Vuksic moved, seconded by Commissioner Hanson for approval subject to reducing the lettering on the north and south elevations so the proportion of the letters in relation to the facade is such that if the letter size equals one, then the space on the top and bottom would equal one and a half. Motion carried 6-0-1 with Commissioner Lingle absent. B. Preliminary Plans 1. CASE NO.: CUP 02-02 APPLICANT �AND ADDRESS): KRfSTI HANSON, 44850 Las Palmas, Suite A, Palm Desert, CA 92260 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Preliminary approval of landscape only. Parking area at Sacred Heart Church. LOCATION: Four vacant lots on Florine Avenue; lots 31, 32, 33 & 34 of Tract 2482. ZONE: R-1 Action: Upon reviewing the plans and presentations submitted by staff and by the applicant, the Architectural Review Commission by minute motion granted approval. Motion made by Commissioner Van Vliet, seconded by Commissioner O'Donnell. Motion carried 5-1-1 with Commissioner Lingle absent and Commissioner Hanson abstaining. 2. CASE NO.: PP 85-17 APPLICANT �ND ADDRESS): THE LAWRENCE GROUP, 319 North 4`h Street, Suite 1000, St. Louis, MO 63102 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Preliminary approval of expansion/renovation of ROBINSON'S MAY. LOCATION: 72-840 Highway 111; Westfield Shoppingtown G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs�,Agmin�AR020226..min.wpd 4 , � `� ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION FEBRUARY 26, 2002 MINUTES ZONE: PC-3 Mr. Drell stated that there is a preliminary landscape plan included in each of the Commissioner's packets. We are waiting for an updated landscape plan that will address some of our issues. Color elevations were presented to the Commission to review. Mr. Drell stated that our goal over time is to eliminate the mansard tile roof everywhere. He also stated that while he understands the constraints of budget, one side of the building is a public facade and it looks like the back end of a building. He suggested adding landscaping or articulation to fix this. The entrances need to be enhanced to break up the long horizontal line. There is a small stone detail that runs along the top of the building, but having it 30' � 40' in the air is probably a waste of money. That expense should probably go into something that a pedestrian could enjoy at the entrances. The applicant is present to explain what they had in mind. Commissioner Vuksic commented that he sees a fantastic opportunity to tie in that end of the center to what's being proposed for the rest of the center. Mr. Drell stated that eventually the City Council will want to look at the Westfield Shoppingtown as one project and will want to see the whole thing. He commented that the stores should look like separate e�#ities but at some point in time they have to b� put together in one package. Aleksandr Malinich, Director of Retail/Hospitality Design for The Lawrence Group Architects, stated that the building is 200,000 square feet with 124,000 existing feet and they are adding roughly 80,000 square feet. The existing aesthetic of the building gives them an interpretation of architecture about twenty-five years ago. He feels that with what Westfield is doing on the inside of the mall gave them an opportunity to talk about a number of different ways to clean the building up. They are planning to change the palette completely. He stated that it will not be a dirty tan, very heavily stuccoed facade. The intent is to clean it up and address a new paint color, such as a cooler gray or white. He feels that during the day the west side of the mall will look cleaner. He stated that there will be two entrances on the north side which will be separated by a new bridge structure leading to the new parking facility and one on the south end. He stated that they have some very interesting opportunities to use some variegated slate to "dress up" the building. The intent for the coping surround throughout the entire building was to indicate the existing z-brick and existing clay tile as a color idea. Mr. Malinich stated that the rooftop screen walls will G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs�Agmin�AR020226..min.wpd 5 � � � ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION FEBRUARY 26, 2002 MINUTES be created with stucco. He commented that the design is very simple but this is the direction at this moment in time and he would love some comments from the Commission. Commissioner Van Vliet asked how tall the screen walls are above the parapets. Mr. Malinich stated that they are 12'�13' and if they were any lower, then the equipment might be visible. He feels that this would be a good height so that the equipment is properly screened. Commissioner Hanson asked whether they were planning to re-plaster the building. Mr. Malinich stated that he was referring to the dirtied appearance that you see now will be cleaned up and a new color will be created on top of it. Commissioner Hanson asked whether or not it would just get dirty again. Mr. Malinich stated that there is no perfect climate and naturally it is going to get dirty. He stated that tan was probably the wrong color in the first place because tan will articulate the nooks and crannies that the heavy stucco has. He commented that white may not be pristine forever, but that color in comparison to what is there now will give a whole new aesthetic to the building. Coupling landscaping with a very clean, modern, simplistic design interpretation he feels that the foliage will speak for itself. He is intending to use some of the existing palms. Commissioner Hanson stated that her initial read is that she was really disappointed when she opened the plans and reviewed them. The building really is a big box and she commented that she couldn't possibly support this project. She stated that after all the money that is being put into this building with the renovation, addition and parking structure she felt that the Commission would be doing a disservice to Robinson's May as well as our community by approving it. Mr. Malinich stated that he appreciates all comments. He stated that they would love to create a monument, but revenue generation and tax base ideas are based on an interior gut remodel of this building. He stated that they must hold their ground on that from an aesthetic standpoint. The inside of the store will be "smashing". Commissioner O'Donnell stated that one of the Commission's responsibilities is to make certain that the exterior of the building is as "nifty" as the inside. IYs the aesthetics of the exterior that the public sees. He also stated that he feels that there is a missed opportunity on the south and west elevations. He commented that it is not as welcoming as it could be, particularly the entrances. He feels that the entrances could be focal points to draw people there and architecturally enhance those elevations, especially the south side. Mr. Drell pointed G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocsWgminWR020226..min.wpd 6 . �rr+'" �' ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION FEBRUARY 26, 2002 MINUTES out that Mr. Malinich had previously stated that there was one entrance on the south side when actually there are two entrances. Mr. Malinich stated that there is one new entrance and one existing entrance on the south elevation. The new entrance will match the existing entrance, but with new surround. Commissioner O'Donnell stated that he was also disappointed when he first opened the plans. He wanted to know what the total length of the building is from east to west. Mr. Malinich stated that the expansion is around 102' and the existing building is approximately 200'. Commissioner O'Donnell stated that there is no break in the roof line and he feels that there are some simple opportunities to break the roof line at the entrances to create some interest in the building. He does not feel that paint is going to do it or changing the glass. He feels that they need another approach to get away from looking like a warehouse and having it look more tike a commercial center that has been upgraded from old architecture, which is not very pleasing right now. Commissioner O'Donnell commented that he does not understand why they are trying to play off of that and feels that they should go in another direction. He stated that he understands budget issues but he felt that they should think very hard about investing all their money only on the inside, which is important for retailing. However, the Commission is concerned about what this building looks like on the outside and not just the architecture but the landscaping as well. Commissioner Gregory commented that since this is a remodel the Commission has to look at this with a slightly different eye than a brand new building. He stated that with a remodel, a lot of times if someone is talking about putting on a coat of paint and changing a few finish materials the Commission is usually grateful even for that. He asked Mr. Malinich that if there are ways to have a little more impact with something a little more upscale as the City would like to see itself, that would be very much appreciated by this group. Commissioner Gregory commented that there might be more that they could do to enhance the exterior recognizing that the people who consume are probably most intrigued by what you do inside. The Commission's job is to look at the outside. Commissioner Vuksic stated that they don't necessarily have to put that much money into the outside. He felt that if they rearranged the materials, they could actually start to achieve some of the qualities of the other parts of this complex that we like without putting a whole lot of money into it. He commented that to take a mundane building and duplicate it would exacerbate the problem geometrically. He does not G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs�AgminWR020226..min.wpd � � � � � ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION FEBRUARY 26, 2002 MINUTES feel that this is a huge budgetary issue. He feels that the materials weren't applied properly. Commission Hanson suggested "punching up" the entrances and maybe the rest of the building will go away. She stated that she is not entirely sold on leaving the really awful stucco there. Commissioner Vuksic stated that there is a huge soffit area that they have made 400' long and wanted to know why they don't add some breaks vertically. He commented that this project has a long way to go and he hopes they don't think that they're going to go away and come back with a few tweaks and get this approved as it's not going to happen. Mike Randy, May Company, was present and stated that the comments regarding breaking up into what appears to be two separate buildings was what they were trying to avoid. The Commission stated that they did not want it broken into two different buildings. Mr. Randy stated that they added some horizontal lines around the building to make it look like one building. They also planned to address the entrances by adding a third entrance on the south side and a bridge into an existing entrance on the north side. He stated that they have the structural geometry there and would rather not spend a good deal of their money redoing a frame that they think they can re-use. He commented that perhaps there are some things that they can do to address the comments made by the Commission by using different colors, different materials, perhaps replace the mansard roof with a different material and use more slate. Mr. Randy stated that he had a conversation yesterday with Phil Drell and has gone over some of these ideas with him. Mr. Randy thought that another concern of the Commission is regarding the west elevation and how it might need to be broken up a little bit. He feels that they can do some of these things but the program on this project and what the upper management has given them financially would allow them to expand this building without re- skinning it. For them to re-skin the building and make severe structural changes would be difficult. This is why they are presenting this plan. Dave Hogonson, Westfield Corporation, was present and commented that he would like to put this project in perspective. He stated that where they are now is a new benchmark for the shopping town. He commented that one of the things that the Commission has suffered through is the fact that the job has been presented in a piece meal manner. One day they're looking at elevations, the next day they're looking at parking structures and then along comes Macy's and then the May Company, etc... Mr. Hogonson stated that as each of these G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs�Agmin�AR020226..min.wpd g . , `�'"° � ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION FEBRUARY 26, 2002 MINUTES pieces starts to come together it allows them to do the job that they need to do on the Commission's behalf as well as the City's, which is to start putting together a full perspective on the project in terms of what you're looking at. He stated that department stores are a unique kind of animal. He commented that this is not an expansion of a store, but is the consolidation of two stores into one. Mr. Hogonson commented that Robinson's May has just recently come to the conclusion that a portion of the existing building that exists underground at the west end has to be torn down, which has a $4.5�$5 million dollar ramification. Mr. Hogonson stated that this is the creation of an opportunity for Robinson's May and also for the City in terms of creating space for Sears. He stated that he is also uncomfortable because from his standpoint he wasn't really happy with the Macy's Home Store expansion. He felt that it seems to be an extension of the "same old thing". He stated that Robinson's May is attempting to do a lot more and he feels that the comments made by the Commission are welcome but he's hoping that the applicant will leave with some focal points and issues that they can deal with. He commented that if you look at the Robinson's May store today, you wouldn't see it primarily because the landscaping is very lush in that particular area. He stated that on the west side of the building you're talking about pedestrian experience. When customers leave their cars they walk to the building and he really �vanted to zero in on those entrances. Mr. Hogonson stated that they have some work to do now that they have this material in hand to look at the project, including the landscape on a more comprehensive basis and see how they can deal with some of the issues that they are confronted with, including the west elevation. Robinson's May is on a zero lot line condition. Mr. Hogonson stated that there is a road right outside the door, however, there is a very healthy landscape.buffer that exists there. Commissioner Gregory commented that this is a "first pass" and that this is a large building. It would be extremely unusual for a property of this size to go through the A.R.C. in one fell swoop. He feels that it is important that the applicant leaves here feeling like they are getting some form of guidance from the Commission. One important statement made by the Commission is that they don't want to see an uninterrupted roof line. If the applicant can recognize that and also tie the new addition in with the existing building. He suggested that instead of continuing with the original look they could have some form of break in the roof line and create a little bit of diversity so it becomes a more G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocsWgmin�AR020226..min.wpd 9 ' • � w„w�►' ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION FEBRUARY 26, 2002 MINUTES interesting building. Commissioner Hanson suggested a more interesting entrance. She stated that the proposed entrances are not interesting in any way, shape or form. She stated that the applicant is missing the fact that people look at the store from the outside and make a judgement about it. She commented that if she is given the choice between going into the proposed Robinson's May entrance or going into the proposed entrance at Rudy's, she would choose the Ruby's entrance. Commissioner Hanson stated that they should not discount the exterior since this is how people first experience their building. She stated that the Commission's issues to the applicant are for them to find a way to make the awful twenty-year-old architecture look interesting. Commissioner O'Donnell commented that there is no shading at all on the south elevation. He stated that there is an opportunity befinreen the east and the west entrances to create some kind of shading device from one entrance to another, which could add some unique architectural elements along with the landscaping that might also be incorporated into some kind of shade structure. Commissioner Gregory stated that they need to have some type of thematic tie in with the rest of the shopping center. Commissioner Hanson stated that they should be careful not to make it exactly the same as the rest of the center, but should have some of the same elements. Mr. Malinich suggested re-coloring the tile on the mansard roof to give it a whole new aesthetic. Commissioner Hanson commented that she wants them to remove the mansard roof completely. Mr. Malinich stated that financially it was a way to add a whole new aesthetic appearance to that building. Commissioner Hanson commented that the building will be "glaring white" here in the desert if they paint it the color that they have proposed. She suggested thinking about this building in multiple colors using darker shades. Commissioner Vuksic suggesting making the colors three times as dark as the proposed colors. Commissioner Gregory stated that the south side gets really hot during the summer and is very unpleasant. He suggested adding landscaping to soften and cool off this area. Diane Hollinger, Landscape Specialist, asked how much landscape area they actually have. She wondered if they planned to expand the landscape areas. Mr. Malinich stated that they do not have a firm G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs�Agmin�P,R020226..min.wpd 1� . , � � ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION FEBRUARY 26, 2002 MINUTES landscape plan yet. He stated that they are going to allow enough distance for a comfortable walkway for multiple people walking by each other. Ms. Hollinger stated that there is very little landscape area on the west side and that most of it is on the street. Mr. Malinich stated that he was considering adding Italian cypress trees. This was not acceptable to the Commission as they are not appropriate in this particular location and they are not on the plant palette for Palm Dese►t. Commissioner Van Vliet commented on the loading dock on the comer for three trucks and a compactor. He asked whether they were going to screen this area. Mr. Malinich stated that they intend to do as much as they possibly can within their budget. There will be a screen wall that is parallel to the building which will extend out about 65' and 12' high. Commissioner Gregory asked the applicant if he has been given enough general information and specifics to where he feels that he would be able to make another pass at this. He does not feel that the Commission is an "obstructionist group". Mr. Malinich stated that he appreciates all the constructive criticism. Mr. Randy stated that he has heard a couple of different variations of things that they should look at. One is to add solar screening along the south side, which is much easier to do than tearing into an entrance and removing a mansard roof and putting something else there. He wanted to know if they would have to rebuild part of the building or re- skin elements at focal points such as the entrances. Commissioner Hanson stated that this is a difficult question to answer because it depends on what is submitted. Mr. Randy commented that he had met with Mr. Drell and they had discussed removing the clay tile and adding a metal or slate material on the existing form, removing the thin-set brick soaps on the parapef or clad over it, adding more of the feature stone material at the entrances, revise the west elevation and add landscaping. Commissioner O'Donnell stated that these comments tend to be more cosmetic and he is asking them to consider architectural elements as well as some of the previously mentioned cosmetics to create a different feel. He stated that the south facade is lacking dramatically and suggested breaking up the horizontal roof line and doing something with the entrances to soften the look of the building. Commissioner O'Donnell commented that this is not a very appealing building to enter in the summertime. Mr. Randy stated that they intend to begin the renovation and addition during July and are hoping to get plan review started in order to proceed. Mr. Drell stated that most of the structural elements are not going to change at all so he does not G:PlanninglDonna Quaiver\wpdocsWgmin�AR020226..min.wpd 1 1 . � � ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION FEBRUARY 26, 2002 MINUTES see a problem going through the Building Department. He stated that they will know within thirty days if they are going to get a solution to satisfy this Commission. Then it becomes a matter of cost and how much they can afford and then that question will go to the City Council. The City will have to decide what we're willing to pay for and willing to look at for the next twenty-five years. Mr. Hogonson stated that he will commit to sitting down with Robinson's May to put this store into the context of the project and vice versa. Commissioner Vuksic commented that if they decide to go in the direction of preserving the mansard roof he feels that they are going to have a much tougher challenge. He feels that it's going to be very difficult to tie in that "tired" roof into something that is going to look right. Mr. Malinich stated that the dialogue between the heavy stucco, which is over emphasized in this building, was way too heavy from the beginning. Having a diatogue with some clear vision glass and a very nice store front would help. Commissioner Vuksic stated that those are some spots where you would have a good opportunity to break the long horizontal, which is one of the key issues here. Mr. Malinich stated that a m�tal roof would offer an interesting aesthetic to break up all the mass of the building stucco and also offer some shimmer. Commissioner Gregory asked if they could sack finish the stucco to break down the heavy look without re-skinning it from start to finish. Mr. Malinich stated that this would probably be possible, however, it would be very labor intensive. On a financially driven idea, he does not know if that would be an option. Commissioner Gregory commented that the heavy stucco element tends to drag it down. Mr. Malinich stated that he is more opposed to the color and would prefer to use grey. Commissioner Gregory commented that he should be careful with the cool-tone greys here in the desert. Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner Vuksic to continue the case to allow the applicant to revise plans according to comments made by the Commission including, (1) removal of mansard tile roof, (2) add solar shading on the south side, (3) removing thin-set brick soaps (z-brick), (4) add more feature stone at entrances, (5) revise west elevation to create a more interesting and inviting exterior, (6) add landscaping, and (7) create a more interesting and inviting exterior. Motion carried 6-0-1 with Commissioner Lingle absent. G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocsWgminWR020226..min.wpd 12 . . �,: "',�r,, ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION FEBRUARY 26, 2002 MINUTES C. Miscellaneous: Mr. Smith advised that he wished to add a request to review awnings at the Norwalk furniture building. On a motion by Commissioner O'Donnell, seconded by Commissioner Van Vliet the Commission agreed to add this item to the agenda. Motion carried 4-0-2-1 with Commissioner Gregory and Commissioner Vuksic abstaining and Commissioner Lingle absent. A discussion was held regarding the addition of awnings to the Norwalk Furniture building. Drawings were distributed for the Commission to review. Commissioner Gregory stated that he had spoken to Mr. Rubenstein earlier that day and was told that there will be no verbage or logos of any type on the awnings. Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner O'Donnell for approval. Motion carried 4-0- 2-1 with Commissioner Vuksic and Commissioner Gregory abstaining and Commissioner Lingle absent. VI. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourred at 1:�0 p.m. STEVE SMITH PLANNING MANAGER G:Planning\Donna Quaiverlwpdocs�Agmin�AR020226..min.wpd 13