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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002-07-09 CITY OF PALM DESERT ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION MINUTES JULY 9, 2002 **************************************************************************************************** I. CALL TO ORDER The meeting was called to order at 12:30 p.m. II. ROLL CALL Commissioners Current Meeting Year to Date Present Absent Present Absent Ronald Gregory, Chairman X 10 2 Kristi Hanson X 10 2 Neil Lingle X 9 3 Richard O'Donnell X 12 0 Chris Van Vliet X 11 1 John Vuksic X 11 1 Ray Lopez X 10 0 Also Present: Phil Drell, Director, Community Development Steve Smith, Planning Manager Francisco Urbina, Associate Planner Tony Bagato, Planning Technician Donna Quaiver, Senior Office Assistant Spencer Knight, Landscape Manager Diane Hollinger, Landscape Specialist III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: June 25, 2002 Commissioner Van Vliet moved, seconded by Commissioner Vuksic to approve the minutes of June 25, 2002. The motion carried 6-0-0-1 with Commissioner Gregory absent. IV. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS A. City Attorney, Dave Erwin, was present to address the Commission regarding conflict of interest. A discussion was held and the 1 ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 9, 2002 MINUTES Commission was informed that they must abstain from any case that is within 500' of their personal property or of any property that they would have a financial interest in. They were also informed that they were not allowed to comment on any such applications as Commissioners. In order to comment they would need to step away from the Commission and make this comment as a member of the public. A. Final Drawings 1. CASE NO.: C 98-12 APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): THE LIVING DESERT, 47-900 Portola Avenue, Palm Desert, CA 92260 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Final approval of giraffe barn. LOCATION: 47-900 Portola Avenue, The Living Desert ZONE: P.D. Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner Lingle for approval by minute motion. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with Commissioner Gregory absent. 2. CASE NO.: SA 02-109 APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): ANCHOR SIGN, P.O. BOX 6009, CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA, 29405 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Approval of new business sign. LOCATION: 72-885 Highway 111, Palms to Pines Shopping Center East. ZONE: P.C. Mr. Bagato presented drawings for the proposed business signage for Tweeter Home Entertainment. The Commission was confused as to the type of sign that was proposed since the plans called for internally illuminated individual channel letters, however, the representative for G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR020709.MIN 2 ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION J U LY 9, 2002 AGENDA Anchor Signs, Tony Rector, stated that they would be reverse channel letters. The Commission agreed that the reverse channel was superior. Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner Lopez for approval of business sign as clarified by applicant's representative to be reverse channel letters. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with Commissioner Gregory absent. 3. CASE NO.: PP 01-08 APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): KLAFF REALTY, 111 WEST JACKSON BLVD., CHICAGO, IL 60604 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Final approval of working drawings. LOCATION: 73-411 Highway 111, northwest corner of San Pablo and El Paseo. El Paseo Square ZONE: C-1 Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner Lingle for approval by minute motion. Motion carried 5-0-1-1- with Commissioner Vuksic abstaining and Commissioner Gregory absent. 4. CASE NO.: MISC. 02-15 APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): BONGARD RESIDENCE, 77-650 Robin Road, Palm Desert, CA 92260 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Approval of 18 feet high roof for a single family home. LOCATION: 77-650 Robin Road, east of Warner Trail and west of Washington Street. ZONE: RE 40,000 Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner Lingle for approval by minute motion. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with Commissioner Gregory absent. GRanning0onna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR020709.MIN 3 fir' ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 9, 2002 MINUTES 5. CASE NO.: MISC. 02-16 APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): TRAVIS BUNKER CONSTRUCTION, 691 Industrial Place, Palm Springs, CA 92264 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Approval of 17 foot high roof for two single-family homes. LOCATION: 74-835 and 74-879 Sheryl Avenue, west of Cook Street. ZONE: R-1 Action: Commissioner Van Vliet moved, seconded by Commissioner Vuksic for approval. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with Commissioner Gregory absent. B. Preliminary Plans 1. CASE NO.: PP 01-02 (A) APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): SANBORN A/E, INC., FOR CANYON NATIONAL BANK, 1227 S. Gene Autry Trail, #C, Palm Springs, CA 92264 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Revised elevation and site plan for bank. LOCATION: 74-150 Country Club, Canyon National Bank ZONE: O.P. Action: Request was continued to the July 23, 2002 ARC meeting at applicant's request. G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\AgminWR020709.MIN 4 ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 9, 2002 MINUTES 2. CASE NO.: C 02-03 APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): PETER TAYTAY (ARCHITECTS ORANGE), 144 N. Orange Street, Orange, CA 92866 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Preliminary design approval of commercial building. LOCATION: 77-950 Country Club Drive, Desert Country Plaza, Wells Fargo Bank ZONE: P.C. Mr. Smith stated that the proposed Wells Fargo Bank will be on the north side of Country Club Drive 300' west of Washington Street. This is pad #1. He displayed the site plan for the Commission to view. There is an existing car wash and several restaurants in the vicinity as well as Gold's Gym. The material board was passed around to the Commission. The building footprint that is being proposed is significantly smaller than what had been originally approved on this pad so there is a landscape effort going in to fill in the area that will not be used by the building. Hugh Rose, architect, was present and stated that he combined a branch bank with an added element of a business center. The west elevation will have a fair amount of coverage for some of the offices with room for landscaping. The forms and colors are similar to those of the rest of the existing center but Wells Fargo wants to have an individual identity and have used ledge stone all the way around the building. They are trying to use forms and colors that would complement the desert setting. Most of the exterior of the building is driven by shade from an energy standpoint as well as for the comfort of the tenants. There is a vestibule entry element that faces the parking lot. Mr. Smith asked where the signage would be. Mr. Taytay stated that Wells Fargo will come in with a separate application, but will typically want a sign facing the parking lot and one on the Country Club side. Commissioner O'Donnell asked what the highest element on the building is. Mr. Taytay stated that it would be 25' with the average height at approximately 20'. Commissioner O'Donnell asked about the line on the roof on the "D" elevation. Mr. Taytay stated that they will G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR020709.MIN 5 `rrrf ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION J U LY 9, 2002 MINUTES probably end up revising this but they are trying to show the reverse side of the pitch way in the distance that you would really never see. Commissioner Hanson stated that she felt that it would be really important that the architects have some input on where the signs go so that they know exactly how it's going to be installed, especially if they're going to put it on the ledge stone. Mr. Smith stated that the center is limited to reverse channel on the Country Club side. Commissioner Hanson suggested using flat letters that are back lit. Commissioner O'Donnell asked what kind of glazing they're using on the building. Mr. Taytay stated that they will probably use some sort of tinted bronze. Commissioner Vuksic asked if Wells Fargo might want signs on either the east or the west elevations. Mr. Taytay stated that he didn't think they would want a sign on the west elevation. Commissioner Vuksic stated that he only sees one spot on the east elevation for a sign, which is on the rock surface. He wanted to know what this was going to look like with a sign on a rock element. Commissioner Hanson suggested using a nice metal letter that's mounted away from the stone. Commissioner Hanson commented that the lightest color on the color/material board may be too light and it would look too white. They might want to consider darkening the color. Commissioner O'Donnell asked how far the windows are inset. Mr. Rose stated that along the west side the glazing is along the structural wall and the battered elements come out approximately 5' and taper back. The trellis element comes out at least 7' beyond that. There is a vestibule which is 3'-4' back with a second set of doors to get into the bank. Most of the other openings are aesthetic. There will be a 6" furring around the windows to get a 6" shadow line. Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner Vuksic for preliminary approval of architecture only. Motion carried 6-0- 0-1 with Commissioner Gregory absent. GRanning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR020709.MIN 6 *4We NOW ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 9, 2002 MINUTES 3. CASE NO.: TT 29692 APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): CYPRESS ESTATES, LLC, P.O. Box 1686, Palm Desert, CA 92260 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Preliminary approval of architecture and landscaping for eight homes. LOCATION: 46-200 Portola Avenue ZONE: R-1 Mr. Smith stated that he would like to add Cypress Estates, LLC to the agenda with unanimous consent of the Commission. The applicant would like to discuss some of Commission's requirements from the last meeting relative to where they were changing the texture of the exterior. Action: Commissioner O'Donnell moved, seconded by Commissioner Hanson for approval to add Cypress Estates, LLC to the agenda. Motion carried 5-0-1-1 with Commissioner Lingle abstaining and Commissioner Gregory absent. Commissioner Vuksic asked why this was submitted late. Mr. Smith stated that staff became aware of it yesterday. Tom Firek, applicant, stated that he was waiting for the architect to make the changes. Commissioner Vuksic commented that he doesn't want the applicant to think that they're going to allow this again. The Commission doesn't want to set a precedent where people think that they can just show up and get something run through. Commissioner Hanson stated that the tower looked acceptable. Commissioner Vuksic and Commissioner Hanson made some minor alterations regarding the location of the stone on the plans. Commissioner Hanson stated that wherever the towers go all the way down past the door, there should be stone. Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner Van Vliet for approval subject to minor changes made to the plans relating to the location of accent stone. Motion carried 5-0-1-1- with Commissioner Lingle abstaining and Commissioner Gregory absent. G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocsWgmin\AR020709.MIN 7 *400 ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 9, 2002 MINUTES C. Miscellaneous 1. Discussion on conflict of interest 2. CASE NO.: PP/CUP 01-30 APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): RILEY/CARVER, LLC, c/o The Carver Company, 74-947 Highway 111, Indian Wells, CA 92210 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Presentation by the Gateway Subcommittee. LOCATION: 34-000 Monterey Avenue (Southeast corner of Monterey Avenue and Dinah Shore) ZONE: PC Mr. Smith stated that Commissioner O'Donnell requested to add this item to the agenda for discussion purposes relative to the advances the subcommittee has been making in their meetings with the Wal*Mart architects. Martin Alvarez was present and stated that they are going to set up another subcommittee meeting to meet with the developer prior to it coming back to the ARC. Mr. Alvarez stated that the subcommittee, consisting of Commissioner O'Donnell and Commissioner Vuksic, met with the Wal*Mart architect and went over some of the items that this Commission delegated to these two Commission members. They addressed the treatment of the wall area underneath the arches. There are some arches in front of the Wal*Mart building between the entrances to Wal*Mart and Super Wal*Mart. The Commissioners had requested more detail on the treatment inside the arched areas. There are going to do wainscot stone work on the bottom of that area. The subcommittee suggested adding planters on the back side of the columns to provide for some type of vine that would grow up the trellis. This was discussed with Spencer Knight and Diane Holllinger and asked for suggested plant material that could survive in that location. Another issue that was discussed was the architectural treatment on the southwest corner. On the elevations, there was a large expanse that was left un-articulated. The subcommittee wanted to see some G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR020709.MIN 8 err' sw ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION J U LY 9, 2002 MINUTES type of architectural treatment. The discussion led to the proposal of a free-standing trellis structure that could serve as a functional sitting space/eating area. The cart storage is another issue that was discussed. The architect will bring back the details for the cart storage at the next meeting. There was discussion regarding screening of the Garden Center and what kind of treatments could be implemented to address the wind issue. Some of the Commissioners felt that there should be more solid features along the wrought iron fencing. The Wal*Mart architect stated that Wal*Mart is agreeable to this and will address breaking up the long expanses of wrought iron and will come back to the subcommittee. The building colors will come back in a future meeting and then will also address signage issues for Wal*Mart. They were way over their allowed limit, per code, although there is a provision in the ordinance for an exception. Based on the fact that they're sunk way down into the site, he feels that this could be heard before the Planning Commission. The kalwall had caused some concern for the Commission. The subcommittee members had given some direction to reduce the overall size of the kalwall area and create more of a solid area. As the architect develops more and more detail on the plans, normally the process would be that he would come back with the final drawings. This would be difficult for the Commission to review as it would take a lot of time to go through the details, therefore, there will be a separate stage added to the review so that as further details are developed (i.e. cornices, stonework, etc...) he will come back so that the Commission can review this thoroughly. Mr. Alvarez stated that we are in the process of reviewing the design guidelines for the entire center which encompasses the theme of the center. The subcommittee did give the architect direction to re-locate the Pharmacy/One Hour Photo/Optical sign from the north end of the building to a location closer to the entrance. Commissioner O'Donnell stated that he's studied the design manual very carefully and one of the things that he noticed is that he felt that the architect still needed to add another layer of design. He pointed out the richness in some of the architectural elements such as the towers on the smaller buildings. There's nothing distinctive about the proposed towers for the larger buildings. What the Commission is looking for are G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR020709.MIN 9 %fte Sao ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 9, 2002 MINUTES the aesthetics. Commissioner O'Donnell studied the book that Commissioner Hanson lent him regarding Santa Barbara Mission-style architecture. In going through the book he realized that there is one portion of Santa Barbara Mission-style architecture that he thinks is the classic style, which is Spanish Colonial. The argument that he has is that he doesn't think that the Commission should take what is given to them by the architect and take each element and say what to do with each one. It's the architect's responsibility to use the design guideline and design the whole project, including the big buildings, with the richness and texture that is represented in the guidelines. Mr. Alvarez stated that he wanted this information to be passed along to the rest of the Commission to see if they concur and find out what their feelings are on the process. The way it's normally done is that the Commission gets to take a good look at the project and then once it gets to the preliminary stage they can still make comments. At this point, there is another layer of review that will be done at which time they'll look at the consistency with the detailing used in the design guideline. Commissioner Hanson stated that she felt that the architect still hasn't "made it". Commissioner Van Vliet commented that the scale of the plans is so small that he would like to request that they submit full 1/4 scale or 1/8 scale plans so that they can really see the detail of the elevations. Mr. Smith asked the Commission how they want the subcommittee to proceed. He asked if they want the subcommittee to continue to work with the architects and when the subcommittee is satisfied or if they feel that they've reached an impass, then they refer it back to the Commission. Commissioner Van Vliet commented that this question should be directed toward the subcommittee as this is a big burden on them. Commissioner Vuksic stated that he feels that the Commission gets a shot at the massing and forms that they see in general and then as the project is refined they pick on details. He doesn't think that it's appropriate to have the architects to go back and re-study the massing. The Commission has been working with them for approximately two months and have led them to believe that they're getting closer because each time they have a list of things that they want the architects to look at and they address those items. To take a step back G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR020709.MIN 10 140*01 ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION J U LY 9, 2002 MINUTES and basically ask them to re-design their buildings would be asking a lot. Commissioner Hanson stated that she has referred to the design guidelines all along and the level of detail that is representative in their design guidelines is not representative in the proposed plans. The architects have not gone far enough. Commissioner Vuksic stated that they haven't gone far enough, as far as details, and he feels that this is something that needs to be done on all projects and not just have a design submittal and working drawing submittal, but have a schematic design submittal and a design development submittal where they can actually see all the details. Commissioner O'Donnell stated that he doesn't think that the Commission should have to pick out something and help them along with it. They are the architects for Wal*Mart and Sam's Club and they have design standards to guide them and instead they're going outside the design standards and it doesn't look like Santa Barbara Mission- style architecture or the design guidelines. The Wal*Mart building itself does nothing but provide a billboard for a sign. There's no entrance at the front other than a couple of windows and a sign and that's it. He had suggested making the passageway with the arches between "Always" and "Always" more interesting inside. This is when they discovered that this is where they might be putting the shopping carts. It has been mentioned several times that there should be some architecture in the parking lot. The parking lot is approximately 40 acres of asphalt with some small trees. There should be some architecture in the parking lot to break it up. The other issue is at the northeast corner where the top of the building is going to be 80' high from the street level. The site itself hasn't been given the kind of attention that it deserves. They're planning on building up the northeast corner by 30'. Coordination between Public Works, landscaping, etc... should be implemented. Mr. Alvarez stated that they've addressed those issues and the developer knows where we stand. Commissioner O'Donnell stated that it's not just the architecture that makes this project, it's everything else that goes with it such as how does the ingress/egress work. Commissioner Van Vliet stated that if the Commission is going to have an opportunity to provide input on at this project, it should be sooner than later. Sometimes by the time they review a project it's too late to make any changes. Commissioner O'Donnell suggested that the project come back before the full commission for review periodically since he's going to be out of town for an extended period of time. Mr. Alvarez stated that there will G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR020709.MIN I I ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION J U LY 9, 2002 MINUTES be a formal presentation on the whole site, possibly including landscaping at the next meeting. Spencer Knight stated that he's had many discussions with the landscape architects and then when they delivered the plans, it was a plain old parking lot. Mr. Alvarez stated that Public Works does not like the raising of the pads, entrance circulation as well as other circulation concerns. Letters have been written to the developer regarding these issues and they'll end up at the City Council Spencer Knight objects to the 2:1 slope on the back side. He can't guarantee that the landscape will hold it up. If it's 2:1, they should have to terrace it or go to a 3:1 slope. Mr. Alvarez stated that there are a lot of issues pending. Mr. Knight commented that a project of this size shouldn't be rushed through. If there are major issues with engineering and they make the decision to enforce them, then all the work he's done on the landscaping is for nothing. Commissioner Van Vliet stated that it seems like the engineering should be done first. Mr. Alvarez stated that he has received direction from the City Manager to proceed with the grading plan that was submitted with the 30' grade elevation. Commissioner O'Donnell stated that it's worth mentioning again that there are two different groups of architects working on this project. The first presentation was for the smaller buildings and the second presentation was for the Wal*Mart and Sam's Club. He's not sure that they're talking to each other. Commissioner Hanson stated that the onus is on the architects to represent to the Commission how their buildings meet their guidelines. At first glance, it doesn't. Stop thinking with the Wal*Mart box and start thinking about a Santa Barbara box. It doesn't have as much to do with massing as it does with the elements within the massing and how they're put together. Commissioner Vuksic stated that it's really going to help to have the drawings at a larger scale. Commissioner O'Donnell stated that a lot of the details are implicit in the design guidelines. If you study it carefully, you can see that there are details included. He doesn't see a lot of that in the Wal*Mart design. Commissioner Vuksic wanted them to come back with 1/8 scale drawings. The Commission has to stay focused on what we can define as details. Commissioner O'Donnell stated that they said they were going to follow their design guidelines and he keeps expecting the Wal*Mart people to come forward with not just our comments but the other comments that we make about the next level of design. He's expecting another layer and yet he doesn't think it's forthcoming unless we specify what it is and he doesn't think that he wants to do that. G:Plan ning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR020709.MIN 12 ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 9, 2002 MINUTES Commissioner Lingle stated that he feels as though the Commission is almost thought of as being a nuisance to them and they're moving straight toward the elected body for approval of their project. A lot of the issues that we're discussing have already been mentioned. Commissioner Lopez stated that he's seen this before where design guidelines have been developed and then when they come back with the drawings, they've left out a lot of the key elements. If it was reversed, there's no way that we would approved the book with the type of architecture that they're proposing. Commissioner Vuksic stated that when the smaller buildings come in and we say that it doesn't follow the guidelines, they can say that it looks like the Wal*Mart. Commissioner O'Donnell is very concerned that the Desert Gateway is just going to be another commercial standard shopping center that's going to be loaded with congestion with no sterling architecture whatsoever. It'll be known as the Wal*Mart Center, not the Gateway Center. The Commissioner is in concurrence that they want to see the detailing and be consistent with the design guidelines and add another layer of architecture. They also want to see the drawings on a larger scale at 1/8 scale. Commissioner O'Donnell commented that he appreciates the effort that they have made to date but they don't seem to be hearing the bigger message and that is to come up to the standards. This is the feeling of the entire Commission. D. Commissioner Comments Commissioner Hanson stated that when the Commission approved the sign for Open System Imaging on Monterey, they approved the sign without lighting. They have hard-wired lighting attached to it now and it looks really bad. She also had a question on the wall on Highway 74 for Sandpiper. Mr. Smith stated that the plans call for the wall to be 8' high. He and Mike Errante looked at it and they both confirmed that it's around 5' right now. We are still waiting for the additional 3'. Commissioner Hanson stated that higher is better in this case. VI. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 1:45 p.m. STEVE SMITH PLANNING MANAGER GRanning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR020709.MIN 13