HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-01-11 . • � �
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CITY OF PALM DESERT
��� ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
• ' MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 2005
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I. CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 12:30 p.m.
II. ROLL CALL
Commissioners Current Meeting Year to Date
Present Absent Present Absent
Ronald Gregory, Chairman X 1
Kristi Hanson X 1
Chris Van Vliet X 1
John Vuksic X 1
Ray Lopez X 1
Karen Oppenheim X 1
Karel Lambell X 1
Also Present:
Phil Drell, Director, Community Development
Steve Smith, Planning Manager
Francisco Urbina, Associate Planner
Donna Quaiver, Senior Office Assistant
Spencer Knight, Landscape Manager
Diane Hollinger, Landscape Specialist
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: DECEMBER 28, 2004
Commissioner Lambell moved, seconded by Commissioner Oppenheim to
approve the minutes of December 28, 2004. The motion carried 4-0-2-1 with
Commissioners Hanson and Lopez abstaining and Commissioner Gregory
absent.
IV. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
A. None.
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A. Final Drawinqs
1. CASE NO.: CUP 04-21
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): VICORP RESTAURANT, 400 West
48`h Avenue, Denver, CO 80216
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request approval of a
patio addition, exterior colors and business signage for Baker's
Square.
LOCATION: 73-075 Highway 111
ZONE: C-1
Mr. Stendell stated that Baker's Square is attempting to do a small
remodel and have submitted revised drawings. The issues that came
up at the last meeting have been addressed. The columns are now
thicker and the applicant has included drawings of how the columns will
be attached to the roof. There are also handouts that show how they're
going to attach the signage to the sloped roof. Mr. Smith referred to
photos which showed that the angle on the front is not as severe as
shown in the plans. Mr. Stendell stated that they were able to screen
the transformer and their equipment.
Commissioner Vuksic commented that on the right elevation it shows
the column shaft being 1'2" instead of 1'4" and it should be 1'4".
Commissioner Van Vliet commented that there's an error on detail 7 on
A-2 and the way the molding piece on top is wrapped. It should be like
detail 4 on A-2 which shows a cap. It's probably just not drawn right. It
should match detail 4.
Mr. Stendell stated that the applicant is going to do some nice
upgrades with landscaping.
Action: Commissioner Vuksic moved, seconded by Commissioner
Hanson for approval subject to (1) column shaft being 1'4", and (2) A-2,
Detail 7 must match A-2, Detail 4. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with
Commissioner Gregory absent.
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2. CASE NO.: CUP 03-22
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): NELBECK, LLC; DAVID NELSON,
72-595 Beavertail Street, Palm Desert, CA 92260
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request approval of
architecture for single family residence in hillside.
LOCATION: 47-625 Calle de Los Campesino
ZONE: HPR
Mr. Smith stated that the plans have been reviewed by the commission.
There were no changes on the elevations. Commissioner Van Vliet
commented that it looks great.
Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner
Vuksic for approval. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with Commissioner
Gregory absent.
Action: Commissioner Van Vliet moved, seconded by Commissioner
Vuksic to add MISC 04-68 to the agenda. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with
Commissioner Gregory absent.
3. CASE NO.: MISC 04-68
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): ABDI HAILE, 73-350 Calliandra
Street, Palm Desert, CA 92260
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request approval of
revised plans for a front courtyard wall.
LOCATION: 73-350 Calliandra Street
ZONE: R-1
Mr. Smith stated that this case was before the commission in
December 2004. The applicant would like to put a pool in the front yard
of a single-family residence on Calliandra Street. The proposal
includes a 6' tan slump stone wall 7' from the curb. Code requires a 15'
setback for a 6' wall. Copies of the ARC's last action were distributed
to the commission. The last submittal showed the wall at 7' from the
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curb. Commissioner Vuksic stated that the commission had asked the
applicant to push the wall back. Mr. Smith stated that at the last
meeting, the applicant did not have scaled drawings and he was asked
to return with drawings that were to scale. The commission wanted to
know how far the pool could be pushed back. Looking at the drawing
that the applicant has provided, the wall is still shown at 7' from the
curb.
Commissioner Vuksic noted that the applicant has a lot of open space
with grass and flower beds and wondered why they need so much
space between the pool and the house. Mr. Haile stated that if he put
the pool closer to the house, the jacuzzi would block the entry.
Commissioner Vuksic asked if the jacuzzi could be moved somewhere
else. Mr. Drell stated that it could go in the opposite corner.
Commissioner Van Vliet commented that they have a lot of room to
move it. Mr. Drell stated that to grant an exception there has to be
some sort of exceptional circumstance. We've done it when they've
had trees that they had to go around or if people didn't physically have
the room. Commissioner Vuksic asked the applicant if he was set on
the rectangular shape of the pool. Mr. Haile stated that it has to be a
good size swimming pool because they want to swim for medical
reasons. Commissioner Hanson noted that the applicant has a large
rear yard. Commissioner Vuksic asked Mr. Haile if he had thought of
putting the pool in the backyard. Mr. Haile stated that he did think
about it. The house is very small and it's located in the middle of the
lot. There's an existing patio at the rear of the house and they want to
add a room there. After the addition, they will have about 20' left in the
rear yard. Also, we want our pets and our kids to have a place to hang
out around the pool. Commissioner Vuksic commented that they could
have a lap pool in the rear yard. If you opt to have the pool in the front,
you're going to have to comply with the 15' setback because it looks
like you have other options. Commissioner Hanson commented that
the commission has been directed by the City Council not to approve
walls that are close to the curb. They don't want to see that anymore.
With the property that you have, whether you want to add an addition
or not, the problem is that you have the space available to put the pool
in the backyard. We understand your reasons for not doing it, but the
problem is that you don't have enough good reasons or issues where
you can't put it somewhere else or comply with the setback. Mr. Haile
stated that he really wants to use his property. Adding a wall in the
front yard would give us good use of our property. Commissioner Van
Vliet commented that they have room for a pool in the front yard. Mr.
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Haile stated that he needs a really nice patio near the pool.
Commissioner Van Vliet commented that he'll have to work that out
design-wise and get it to fit. The commission is saying that they're not
going to approve anything that's going to be less than 15' from the curb
because there's no mitigating reason to do that. You can move the wall
back and still get the pool in there. Mr. Smith commented that the City
Council will be considering four wall appeals at their next meeting on
Thursday and recommended that the applicant attend the meeting to
observe. Mr. Drell stated that the Council will also be discussing
various ordinance amendments that may even make the 15' front yard
setback requirement obsolete.
Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner
Vuksic to deny the request for the following reasons: (1) The property is
a large lot with open areas in the front and rear which would
accommodate a pool without reducing the wall setback, and (2) no
unusual circumstances exist to justify an exception to the wall setback
provision to the code. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with Commissioner
Gregory absent.
B. Preliminary Plans
1. CASE NO.: PP 04-35
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): ERNEST GOBLE, 1650 Zahker Road,
#125, San Jose, CA 95122
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request preliminary
approval of two showroom buildings.
LOCATION: 75-300 Gerald Ford Drive
ZONE: PCD
Mr. Urbina stated that the two proposed buildings are going to be
behind the D'Mundo Tile building. Staff is not satisfied that the quality
of the architecture is up to that of D'Mundo Tile and the two-story office
building designed by Holt Architects toward Cook Street. This is before
the ARC for feedback on the architecture.
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Bob Ricciardi, architect, was present to explain the project to the
commission. There are two buildings that are going to be used for
furniture display and sales. They're tucked way in the back. This is
kind of a development that didn't get off on the right foot. Mr. Drell
stated that it still isn't on the right foot. Mr. Ricciardi stated that this is a
lot that's way in the back near the railroad tracks. There is a problem
with access to the site. Mr. Drell stated that there's a reciprocal access
through this area. Mr. Ricciardi stated that the lot to the east is
currently vacant. We're presenting two single-story buildings. The
entry has a freestanding arch that will have signage on it.
Commissioner Van Vliet asked about the building height for the
warehouse. Mr. Ricciardi stated that iYs just a furniture warehouse so
they don't need a lot of height. A 20' roof height should work.
Commissioner Van Vliet asked about the location of the air conditioning
equipment. Mr. Ricciardi stated that it will be on the roof. They don't
need a lot of air conditioning. If it's going to be seen we'll just add little
screens around them. Otherwise, we could have a 24' roof height and
you wouldn't see it. Commissioner Vuksic stated that he's thinking
about the scale of it because it's so basic. Mr. Drell stated that you're
not going to see these elements because they're so far back from the
street. Commissioner Vuksic commented that you're going to see the
arch. Mr. Ricciardi stated that he calls it soft tilt-up. Commissioner
Vuksic stated that if I built the D'Mundo Tile building and the proposed
buildings were going in next to me, I wouldn't be happy. It's nice that
iYs a different style, but it's simple, minimal tilt-up. Other than the red
arch structures, it doesn't seem like there's much to it. The scale of the
arch structures is way off. They concern me. I think the spindly legs
are too thin and the tops are too heavy. The archways seem pretty
foreign to the design because iYs a basic, "anywhere USA" tilt-up
building. IYs all straight lines and then there are these red arches. The
contrast could be really interesting, but in this case it just looks odd. It
looks like it needs more articulation and some more thought to
proportion and massing. I wish we had a floor plan and roof plan to
refer to. You're definitely going to need to screen the air conditioning
equipment and we need to see what that's going to look like on top of
these very marginal buildings. Mr. Ricciardi stated that they approved a
building on the corner that's brutal concrete tilt-up. Commissioner
Vuksic asked why he's pointing to that. Is it some kind of defense
because that's looks great? Mr. Ricciardi commented that they have a
philosophy problem. Basic, simple tilt-up isn't bad. We've done tons of
them and they really come out neat and they're just like this. Because
it's basically tilt-up I don't think that it's bad. I think it's a lot better than
the D' Mundo Tile building, which has been approved and is really
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brutal. Commissioner Vuksic commented that basic tilt-up is fine and I
like the direction of the style of the D'Mundo Tile building than the
proposed buildings. There's a level of detail and care with the D'Mundo
building that I don't see on the proposed buildings. It's all just one
panel height and I think it needs to be more because of what else is
happening in the area.
Commissioner Hanson stated that she doesn't have a problem with
concrete tilt-up buildings. I think that Mr. Ricciardi has done this before
many times but what we're looking for him to do is take the same
principles but come up with some other architectural detail for it to make
it interesting. The concept of the archways could work but it's such a
departure from the simplicity of the building that it makes it stand out
and seem odd. It's too narrow for its height and it could possibly tie
back to the building. We're not saying that you can't do a tilt-up
building, we're saying that he should find some different ways to
articulate it to make it different from everything else you've done.
Commissioner Lopez commented that the plans show trees in spots
where the overhang of the shade structures would hit them. Mr.
Ricciardi stated that they intend to take the top parts off the shade
structures. Commissioner Lopez asked for the name of the landscape
architect. Mr. Ricciardi stated that he doesn't know yet. They have so
many problems with the building. Commissioner Lopez suggested that
they tie their landscape in with the adjacent property.
Commissioner Vuksic commented that if they do decide to have
covered parking they should work with the building. The proposed
carports look like they were taken off a different project and don't work
with the building. Mr. Ricciardi stated that his client has realized that
the delivery trucks will be driving in that area so he doesn't want
covered parking. Commissioner Vuksic stated that the carport plans
need to be simplified (cheapened up) to fit in with the simplicity of the
architecture. Mr. Ricciardi commented that simple is better. Lots of
people think that more articulation is better. The Canyon National Bank
building on Country Club has so many things working there and they're
so thin and the proportions don't work and it looks cluttered. I was
raised in the 50's and 50's architecture is simple. Now we're getting
back into the Fountainhead style where you have all these different
things on the building to add articulation. Commissioner Vuksic
commented that he doesn't agree with that. There's a difference
between being simple and being so bare that it just looks like it's
completely economics driven. I believe that it was Neese Vanderoh
(sp?) who said that "architecture is the learned play of forms in the light"
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and that covers all architecture. Mr. Ricciardi stated that that's the
beaux arts shades and shadows that they were after. When you have
long canopies held up by wires, it becomes too brutal. I've tried to stay
away from these kinds of things. It's too brutal.
Commissioner Vuksic stated that a plain wall can be beautiful if it's
offset with something else where it becomes a relief for something
interesting. Right now it looks like an economics driven project. Mr.
Ricciardi stated that he wants to keep it simple, clean and nice. Mr.
Drell stated that there has to be some focal point of some sort,
regardless of how subtle it is. The arch, which is the main focal point, is
clumsy. If you came up with another feature or made the arch fit as
part of the building and made it less clumsy, then maybe that would be
the focal point that contrasts with the simplicity of the building. The
problem is now is that the only thing of some interest is actually less
elegant than the rest of the building. The arch may be the way to do it,
but you have to come up with a different design for that element. If
you're going to have landscaping, show the landscaping on the
building. The purpose of the drawings is to illustrate what we're actually
going to see.
Mr. Urbina stated that he would like the architect to address the east
side of the building, knowing that there will be a future building on this
side. Commissioner Vuksic stated that when the applicant returns with
revised drawings, we need to address the mechanical equipment. Mr.
Ricciardi stated that he will provide a roof plan. I'd like to put the units
in the middle of the roof and build a little screen wall around it.
Commissioner Vuksic stated that the commission needs to see it.
Action: Commissioner Oppenheim moved, seconded by Commissioner
Vuksic to continue the repuest to allow the applicant to return with
revised plans that show more articulation of the architecture. Motion
carried 6-0-0-1 with Commissioner Gregory absent.
2. CASE NO.: TT 32655
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): DESERT WELLS 237, LLC, 5005
Calle San Raphael, Palm Springs, CA 92262
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Preliminary approval
of landscape plan.
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LOCATION: South of Gerald Ford and west of Cook Street
ZONE: PCD
Mr. Smith stated that Bob Ross, representative for the applicant, was
present with landscape plans. This is for a tract of 270 homes in the
University Park area. There is a significant slope condition along one
side. We want a landscape solution before we went forward with any
hearings on the matter so we can tell people what these slopes are
going to look like. Mr. Drell stated that the slopes are going to be what
the public sees of the tract. Mr. Ross stated that there's a 15'-30'
elevation difference on the slope. They have a unique problem with
this site with blow sand. There could be as much wind erosion as
water erosion. We were thinking about using a decomposed-type
granite look using the native soil and maybe blending some coarser
material into it. Hopefully, this will solve the wind erosion problem. Our
thought is to create bands of native soil (possibly three bands on a 30'
high slope) so you don't have a big run-off before you hit native
material. Native materials infiltration rate is about 15" per hour. If we
can create these infiltration zones up in the slope, versus down at the
bottom to minimize the run-off. The slope varies from 2.5:1 to 3:1.
We're trying to put in some keystone-type walls at the toe to help flatten
the slope out with 3' vertical walls. Mr. Knight stated that this is not
what he spoke to the landscape architect about. I have a concern
about the obvious line across the slope allowing open space for water
to run free without any interruption of movement. When I originally
talked with John Andrew, this was supposed to be alternated so the
water never had a clear path of any length to gain acceleration. On the
other hand, I had expected to see a higher plant population to interrupt
the rainfall when it landed. Mr. Ross stated that the problem is that he
would like to use ground cover but you can't overhead water here. Mr.
Drell stated that we're not talking about ground cover. There's a long
way between zero and ground cover. Mr. Knight commented that there
are plant materials that have a big expansion, i.e. acacia redolens
"Desert Carpet", which expands 15'-20' with one emitter. Overhead
sprinkling wouldn't work. On the other hand, I'm not convinced that it
won't meet water calcs, it just has to be designed appropriately. We
had talked about using some boulders as well as plant placement to
interrupt the flow of water so that it can't build up any velocity to
become erosive. I would expect to see larger plant groupings moving
throughout the whole area alternating pretty consistently to interrupt the
rainfall. The concept is there but there are too many gaps in the plant
material with too much open space. We have to look at plant
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placement and then take a look at the water calcs. We're trying to get
away from V-ditches and use more organic materials.
Commissioner Van Vliet asked if there will be any retaining walls built
between the lots to help pick up the grade. Mr. Ross stated that this is
still being discussed. It works without it. Mr. Drell stated that the
property owners will probably want retaining walls, especially if they
wanted extra room for a pool. Commissioner Lopez suggested adding
more trees to the landscape plan.
Commissioner Lambell suggested addressing the retaining walls in the
rear yards. Mr. Drell commented that they probably won't be a problem
because people aren't going to see their neighbors' walls.
Mr. Drell asked Mr. Ross is there's going to be some undulation in the
slope. Mr. Ross stated that it will be a contoured slope but he has to
have walls at the bottom to help do that. Mr. Drell stated that the
topography should look natural. Mr. Knight stated that when he
originally talked to the landscape architect we talked about using
boulders at different places on the slope to create vertical topography
and also change the angle of the slope, which changes the velocity of
the water. It also adds architectural design and aesthetics. We don't
want it to look like Orange County.
Action: Commissioner Lopez moved, seconded by Commissioner
Vuksic to continue the request to allow the applicant to continue
working with the Landscape Manager. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with
Commissioner Gregory absent.
C. Miscellaneous
Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner
Vuksic to add SA 04-115 to the agenda. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with
Commissioner Gregory absent.
1. CASE NO.: SA 04-115
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): SANTA CURSON INVESTMENTS,
42-185 Washington Street, Palm Desert, CA 92211
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Discussion regarding
wall, business signage, and exterior colors for Hand Car Wash of
Palm Desert.
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LOCATION: 42-185 Washington Street
ZONE: P.C.
Mr. Drell distributed current photographs of the recently completed car
wash to the commission for their review. There are a whole bunch of
issues on this project. The first was the design of the wall. The design
of the wall in the working drawings is identical to the design of the wall
in the preliminary plans. It's supposed to be a very smooth, continuous
curve and as it goes around the corner it almost looks like it goes into a
reverse curve. There's only one peak and it goes down on either side.
There should be angled fin details. The wall as constructed has a
section that's approximately 40'-50' long with a flat elevation and then it
has some abrupt edges to it. This is the kind of design where it has to
be very precise and crisp in all forms of its execution. Dean Holm,
superintendent, was present to address the commission. The
curvature of the wall alone along Washington was staked out by their
surveying service and in 100' there was only a 1' change on either end.
We ran into some issues with the top of the radius coming over and
bringing the roof in at 18' in height with the joist. The joist took so long
to engineer so we do have a section that's dropping 1" per 14' off the
center line instead of 2". That way we would have something that
would create a watertight seal. On plan 4.1 we have dimensions for
carrying the radius through, but they don't work. The beams would've
been at 7' at either end of the entrance to the tunnel. They do not
match the radius that the new architect came up with for the joists. We
had to keep the wall up a little bit in elevation to be able to get cars in
and out. Mr. Drell stated that the problem is that when you change
your plans you're supposed to come back to the City and tell us about it
and try to find a solution that meets the original design intent.
Unfortunately, the wall is what everybody sees. Mr. Holm commented
that he didn't know what some of the materials were supposed to be.
Mr. Drell stated that it's up to you and the architect to design a detail of
how they're going to be built. It's not for the City to design a detail.
The details are shown on the plans, therefore, they should be built to
ask to have them removed. Mr. Holm stated that he asked his
superintendent. Mr. Drell stated that there are a whole bunch of little
things that diverge from the original concept, which, in isolation might
not have been so bad. What happened was that every single important
detail has gotten modified to the fact that we ended up with an aardvark
instead of a gazelle. We had a design that was very delicate in terms
of how it was going to work. We have a wall that drops 1" a foot over
20 feet is almost 2' of elevation of wall mass which is a significant
amount. Instead of it dropping 2', it's only dropped 1'. Mr. Holm stated
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that in 14' it drops 2". Mr. Drell stated that it doesn't match the drawing.
A mitigating factor in the design was the vertical landscaping. No
vertical landscaping in front was installed. The plan shows it but
somehow we approved a plan that shows no vertical landscaping,
except for two trees off on one side and one on the other side.
Through the center part, which looks really awkward, there's nothing.
The pure execution of the wall has problems. The edges are lumpy.
This required a smooth, sweeping wall. The end of the curve has a
reverse curve as it reaches zero and it basically was built in a way
where it comes down awkwardly. The landscaping that was going to
help soften it is not there, the architectural elements that would add
some interest aren't there and the smooth sweep of the curving wall is
not there. The paint job had to be just as precise in terms of following
the perfect curve and the paint job is a little bit shaky. The plans for the
signage showed a certain letter design, installed in a certain way and
that is not what was installed. Virtually, every element that was of
significance on that wall is a bit off. The cumulative effect of all these
issues is a really unflattering elevation. Mr. Urbina noted that the
approved construction drawings called for three different types of
stucco finishes (smooth, light blown and vertical raked) for each of the
bands and iYs all one texture. Mr. Drell stated that he's going to look
through all the construction details and see where things went wrong.
Commissioner Vuksic asked if the elevation shows something that's
clear and the detail doesn't reflect that, then is it the commission's
responsibility to catch that? Mr. Drell stated that it shouldn't be. Our
job isn't to do a page by page, detail by detail, plan check of the
working drawings. Our expectation is that our plan checkers are
supposed to reconcile elevations with details. Commissioner Hanson
commented that if there are problems with the drawings that will
significantly change to the intent of what has been approved it is the
duty of the people building it to make sure that they let the City know
and then work out the issues. The applicant commented that they've
worked closely on a daily basis with the Building and Safety
Department working some of the issues out. There were a lot of
inconsistencies on the plans when the original architect had passed
away. There's nothing that we ever did on the project that we haven't
communicated to someone in the City. I think that it's a little bit
subjective as to how the building came out. We're not saying that
we're done. We want to work with the City with these issues.
Commissioner Hanson suggested that the applicant needs to look at
the project and tell the commission what they intend to do to fix it to
make it closer to what was previously approved. Commissioner Vuksic
suggested that their architect makes sure that the structural details fit
within the architectural intent. Whoever is stamping the plans is
supposed to be coordinating between structure and architect.
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Commissioner Lambel commented that the commission spent an
incredible amount of time talking about the signage and it didn't
happen. The applicant stated that the sign company that installed the
signs had the permit with the drawings. They made a mistake and this
will be corrected. Mr. Smith suggested that the commissioners visit the
site so that they can better address the issues. Mr. Drell stated that
now that we can see the signage on the building we might be able to
see a compromise on the signage. Mr. Smith commented that they
definitely should not have Imperial Sign Company change the signage
or fabricate the signage until a solution is agreed upon.
Action: Commissioner Lambell moved, seconded by Commissioner
Oppenheim to continue the request to allow the applicant to return with
suggestions of ways to fix the issues. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with
Commissioner Gregory absent.
VI. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 2:10 p.m.
STEVE SMITH
PLANNING MANAGER
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