Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-07-12 CITY OF PALM DESERT ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION MINUTES JULY 12, 2005 **************************************************************************************************** I. CALL TO ORDER The meeting was called to order at 12:30 p.m. II. ROLL CALL Commissioners Current Meeting Year to Date Present Absent Present Absent Ronald Gregory, Chairman X 10 3 Kristi Hanson X 9 4 Chris Van Vliet X 9 4 John Vuksic X 13 Ray Lopez X 12 1 Karen Oppenheim X 13 Karel Lambell X 12 1 Also Present: Phil Drell, Director, Community Development Steve Smith, Planning Manager Francisco Urbina, Associate Planner Tony Bagato, Assistant Planner Ryan Stendell, Assistant Planner Donna Quaiver, Senior Office Assistant Diane Hollinger, Landscape Specialist III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: June 28, 2005 Commissioner Oppenheim moved, seconded by Commissioner Lopez to approve the minutes of June 28, 2005. The motion carried 3-0-1-3 with Commissioner Lambell abstaining and Commissioners Hanson, Gregory and Van Vliet absent. IV. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS A. None. 1 ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 12, 2005 MINUTES A. Final Drawings 1. CASE NO.: MISC 05-13 APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): RICHARD HARVEY, 77-470 Wyoming Avenue, Palm Desert, CA 92211 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request approval of a 6' high wall, 12' from the curb. LOCATION: 77-470 Wyoming Avenue ZONE: R1 Action: Commissioner Lambell moved, seconded by Commissioner Oppenheim for approval by minute motion. Motion carried 4-0-0-3 with Commissioners Hanson, Gregory and Van Vliet absent. 2. CASE NO.: SA 05-81 APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): COSMO'S GRILLE AND BAR, 73-155 Highway 111, Palm Desert, CA 92260 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request approval of business signage for Cosmo's. LOCATION: 73-155 Highway 111 ZONE: PC Mr. Stendell stated that the previously approved sign for Cosmo's was taken through ARC in 2001. The original approval shows a large letter "C", at 36" in height. The new design shows the letter "C" at 24" so it is considerably smaller, but it's a different style of lettering with less creativity. They're changing "Italian Kitchen" to "Grille and Bar" due to a recent change in the partnership. Mr. Drell stated that the old sign was more compressed and it's right over the awning while the new submittal extends beyond the awning and is a little bit closer to the eave. Commissioner Oppenheim stated that the sign looks big on the north elevation. G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR050712.MIN 2 ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 12, 2005 MINUTES Ed Landen, representative for Sign-A-Rama, was present and stated that they've condensed the lettering by 15%. Commissioner Vuksic stated that the letters on the proposed sign look thicker than the current sign. Mr. Landen stated that they're about the same thickness as the old sign. Mr. Stendell stated that the letters will have a clear acrylic face over them, similar to Tony Roma's and Baker's Square. Commissioner Vuksic stated that the width of the old sign is about 30%-35% less than the new sign. If the sign was reduced by 20%, it would work better. Commissioner Lopez stated that he was concerned about the "Bar and Grille" sign. It's looks awkward. Commissioner Oppenheim stated that if the lettering for the main sign was brought down, it would look better with the "Bar and Grille" lettering. Commissioner Vuksic stated that the commission has experienced submittals that show letters for a sign at a certain height and then when it's put up on the wall they look bigger. Mr. Landen stated that the letters were supposed to be scaled to the building. Each painted square on the facade of the building is 31". The letters are scaled to these squares. Commissioner Vuksic stated that the painted areas aren't square. Some are longer than they are wide and there are some that are wider than are long. Mr. Drell asked if there was some reason why the sign isn't centered on the facade. Commissioner Vuksic stated that it's centered from side to side, but it's not centered as far as mass. Mr. Drell stated that if it was pushed over a little bit, it might help. They should also make it a little smaller. Commissioner Vuksic stated that he was concerned about the scale of the sign. The letter "C" is scaled at 22'/2 " in height. It's less than the 24" that's stated on the plans. The sign will look larger than the photograph. Mr. Drell stated that photo-simulations are generally in the ballpark, but not quite over the plate. Commissioner Vuksic stated that the problem is that a couple of inches make a difference. The letter "C" should be reduced to 19". Action: Commissioner Vuksic moved, seconded by Commissioner Oppenheim for approval subject to (1) reduce sign on the front so that the letter "C" is 19" from top to bottom and the other letters reduced in the same proportion, and (2) sign be shifted to the right slightly so that it G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR050712.MIN 3 ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 12, 2005 MINUTES appears more centered on the facade. The sign on the back was approved as submitted. Motion carried 4-0-0-3 with Commissioners Hanson, Gregory and Van Vliet absent. B. Preliminary Plans 1. CASE NO.: PP 05-12 APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): TAYLOR WOODROW HOMES, INC., 15 Cushing, Irvine, CA 92618-4200 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Preliminary approval of revised plans for an 810-unit mixed residential development. Spanish Walk LOCATION: 76-000 Frank Sinatra Drive (former Emerald Desert site) ZONE: R-1 M Mr. Smith stated that this is the Emerald Desert site on Frank Sinatra. Monica Simpson, site planner and landscape architect for Taylor Woodrow Homes, was present to address the commission. The site is located at the intersection of Gerald Ford and Frank Sinatra. We've got approximately 810 units that we're getting approval for on an 80-acre site. There are five different housing types including a cluster unit (detached unit), compact lots for small single-family homes, flats (higher density product), auto courts (detached with four homes sharing an auto court) and a more traditional townhome-type product. The project has one major community collector road that links all the different neighborhoods together. Along that road is a central park with additional open space areas. At the last meeting, there were comments about the rigidity about the plan with straight streets so we went back and curved some of the upper streets and added some curbs. We've also added a choker, which is necking down the intersection with landscape and a sidewalk so that when you look down the street, you have some landscape that actually encroaches into that view so you don't actually see straight down the street. We've also added some special paving at the intersections around the park to help break up the street system. We had a workshop with Diane Hollinger to refine our plant palette and we'll continue to refine that list and we know what's G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR050712.MIN 4 'frir'` ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 12, 2005 MINUTES available. The landscape will have a desert palette with desert trees and accents. The idea is that the main street will have more of a lush desert appearance. Turf is going to be limited to selected areas in the park. Most of the other landscape will be dry rock or decomposed granite. There will be an 8'-10' trail that runs along the back side of the property which connects to a city-wide trail. Another comment made at the last meeting, was the lack of community pool areas in certain portions of the project. We've removed two lots and added a pool. The compact lots have enough room to have their own pools. Commissioner Vuksic asked about the average density of the project. Ms. Simpson stated that it's about 10 units per acre. Commissioner Vuksic stated that he likes the site plan and the location of the parks and how they break up the main promenade and the way the street meanders so they can't look all the way down it. Mr. Drell stated that there will be an associated component of 150 apartments, which will interact to a certain degree with the commercial projects that are occurring to the west. At the boundary of the apartments and the commercial will be a signalized intersection shared between the commercial, apartments and the university. Ms. Simpson stated that they're working closely in developing the plans for the apartments to make sure that the edge works between the unit types. Commissioner Vuksic asked about the acreage of the project. Ms. Simpson stated that it's about 80 acres. Colin Leu, representative for Heide Architects, was present and stated that he's in charge of the cluster units and also the townhomes. What has changed from the previous presentation is that they went further to develop the B and the C elevations. They're not 100% complete because there's a lot of work involved. What has also changed is the detailing of the wrought-iron balconies, the garage doors, the soffit above the garage doors, the shutter details, the window trims, and the eave details. In general, the style is all the same (Spanish). Ms. Simpson made sure that there was room for trees in the auto court. Commissioner Vuksic asked about the material to be used on the balconies, posts on verandas and railings and stated that they look like they're very small dimension wood. It's very nice in keeping with the style of architecture, but wondered what it was going to look like several years from now. Mr. Leu stated that they had intended to use wood, but instead of using wood railing, they were going to use tubular steel and paint it dark brown. You really can't see a difference and it's not going to twist or warp. G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR050712.MIN 5 ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 12, 2005 MINUTES Commissioner Vuksic wanted to see pictures of what the roof is going to look like with the boosting of the tile. It might look fine with just the first three rows done with boosting, but photos would help. The renderings show shadows in the window areas and wanted to know if there was going to be reveal in the windows. Mr. Leu stated that they intend to have 2 x 4 walls but they're going to use 2 x 3 nailers to give the window a 1" recess. Commissioner Vuksic stated that this is a very nice project. The articulation in the architecture is really nice. Mr. Drell stated that they should have a special corner elevation for each of the products. Commissioner Vuksic concurred and stated that a couple of the elevations have blank walls on the two-story units. Mr. Leu stated that they pay very close attention to four-sided architecture. On the interior units where they're only eight feet apart, the side walls won't really be seen. The paseo elevations are important. The windows will still be recessed on the interior elevations but they won't have as much articulation as the exterior walls. Examples were shown to the commission. Jeremy Lauden, representative from Investigative Science Engineering, was present and stated that he's working on the acoustical study. The initial review showed that the worst case would require a 12' high barrier, which is based on the train noise. We took a measurement of the train over a ten-minute period instead of an hourly period, per City standard, and we utilized that, which gave us the 12' high wall. Right now we're looking at multiple train events through one hour with durations of less than ten minutes and we're finding that there might be the opportunity to reduce the wall down to 8' along most of the actual project site. Mr. Drell stated that the City did a generic study along the whole route in response to complaints from people who already have an 8' high wall. People have been showing up at City Council meetings saying that they want to City to pay for a higher wall. Mr. Drell stated that the problem is that this proposed project has two-story buildings and wondered how an 8' high wall would block sound at 16'. Mr. Lauden stated that an 8' or 12' wall won't do much for the second story. Therefore, the second story becomes more of an architectural treatment. We were also going to try to minimize the windows on the side facing the train and they will also use thicker glass on the windows that they do put on this elevation. We will also minimize balconies and balcony exposures to the train side and try to put them on the other side. These are things that we're still trying to figure out. Mr. Drell G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR050712.MIN 6 ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 12, 2005 MINUTES stated that they're going to need some very illustrative exhibits to show the physics of how the sound works. The way the buildings are oriented, there are open corridors that lead towards the train tracks. If the buildings were going the other way, they would block the sound. The Council is going to need some pretty graphic convincing of what their mitigation is going to be. Mr. Lauden stated that on the last project that he did with Taylor Woodrow, which was located along Interstate 15, they did modeling receptors all the way through the corridors so they could show how the sound was going to drop off and how the buildings are going to help buffer with the noise. Mr. Smith stated that the person who is complaining about train noise lives 600 feet from the tracks with an 8' high wall, a six-lane street and tamarisk trees between him and the train. Mr. Lauden stated that their disclosure documents are very thorough. In the CC & R documents they have a civil engineer do exhibits which are part of the noise study. Commissioner Lambell asked how far this proposed project is from the railroad track. Mr. Tim Day stated that the existing wall is about 100 feet from the tracks. Commissioner Lambell stated that she'd be more worried about the noise from 1-10 than the intermittent train. Mr. Drell stated that the noise from 1-10 is like the ocean and you get used to it and it disappears. It's the intermittent sound that gets your attention. Mr. Lauden stated that he took long-term measurements between the tracks and the existing wall and took measurements close to the 1-10 and during one train event and we found that the sound levels were below 65, which is below the City standard. Once you go inside the wall, the sound would obviously be reduced. The 1-10 is offset enough so that I'm not too worried about it. From building facade, the 1-10 is probably 450 feet away. I don't see a problem with the freeway, but the train events will be more difficult to meet the City standard. We're trying to make sure that the people who are going to live there are going to be comfortable, especially on the second floor where the bedrooms are located. Glass on the second-story windows are going to have to be dual pane and dual glaze. They may even have to go to a triple pane window to help with the noise. Commissioner Lopez stated that the site plan is nice. When I first looked at the site plan, I thought that it was very linear and it looked like you were trying to get as many people in here as possible. I think that you've addressed it as best as you could with the corridors, paseos, common areas and recreation areas. You've softened it as well as you could for a project that's this compact. The site plan is driven by what's going on to the west at the university. It was suggested that the applicant think about mailbox locations and trash locations. Mr. Drell G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR050712.MIN 7 `40, ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 12, 2005 MINUTES stated that they should also consider the location of the utility boxes as well. Mr. Drell stated that if the applicant wants to make any changes, then it has to come back to the commission for their approval. The apartments will be processed under a separate application. Action: Commissioner Vuksic moved, seconded by Commissioner Lambell for preliminary approval subject to (1) submit photo of detail of boosting of roof tile, (2) show special corner elevation for each product, (3) approval by Landscape Manager, and (4) use tube steel where small wood members are shown. Motion carried 4-0-0-3 with Commissioners Hanson, Gregory and Van Vliet absent. 2. CASE NO.: PP 05-05/CUP 05-01 APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): ERNEST RAMIREZ, 668 N. Pacific Coast Highway, Suite 517, Laguna Beach, CA 92651 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request approval of revised elevations for the conversion of existing Texaco gas station to a new Jiffy Lube drive through facility. LOCATION: 74-180 Highway 111 ZONE: C-1 Mr. Bagato stated that he received revised plans based on comments made at the last ARC meeting. Ernest Ramirez, applicant, was present and stated that one of the comments that they failed to make a revision on was the trellis, which comes out beyond the exiting of the facility. The wall has been reduced from 6' to 4'. Commissioner Lopez asked if there would be any way to get a little more of a cantilever on the west elevation. Commissioner Vuksic commented that he didn't even want to critique the proposal because I have to stare at it to try to figure out what changed. I don't think you understood me last time or you didn't take me seriously. This is not an acceptable building, in my opinion, to go G:Plan ning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR050712.MIN 8 `4r ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 12, 2005 MINUTES on Highway 111. It looks way too predictable with a strip center-kind of architecture. There just isn't anything there. To even start critiquing it in terms of the details might make you think that the overall building is okay and you just need to tweak the little details and it's far from that. You need to hire a talented designer and design a building that belongs there. Mr. Ramirez stated that one of the things that they took forward from the first meeting with the ARC was the fact that they weren't going to be able to make the existing building work, therefore, they reluctantly decided to level the old building. You get into the financial issues of having such a small site for such a high price with a building that generates only so much income with one type of use with three bays and you can't change the three doors for the bays. You're faced with a limited amount of what seems to be what you would classify as a retail look with some detail on it and dress it up as much as possible. We ended up with a pretty decent landscape area and we think we've facilitated quite a bit. You're not going to get this to look like the Elephant Bar. You asked me to add more detail, tweak the building and make it look like something other than a Jiffy Lube. That's a lot of expense for a Jiffy Lube. In keeping it simple, we're keeping the function. Commissioner Vuksic stated that when he looks at the elevations that show a flat wall with glass in it with little bits of stone in between and it has no relationship to the rest of the building. I don't think you're taking me seriously. Mr. Drell stated that the City agreed to potentially permit this use in this area with the understanding that this would be a more exceptional Jiffy Lube than we got behind Toys R Us. That was the understanding. Mr. Ramirez stated that they're talking about specific likes and dislikes of architecture. Mr. Drell stated that this is the group whose job it is to express their opinion on architecture. Given the somewhat ambivalence to our code on mixed use on Highway 111, the understanding was that this would be on the high side of design and not even middle of the road. Obviously, you have a tower element and the tower should read as a real masonry tower and the columns are beefy enough to be holding up that big mass and that the elements underneath the tower bear some relationship to it. G:Plan ning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR050712.MIN 9 rrr *400 ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 12, 2005 MINUTES Commissioner Vuksic stated that whoever drew this plan and looked at it and thought that it was okay, makes me worry. Mr. Drell stated that if they're going to adopt a traditional architectural style, then you better do it right. If you're going to mimic Mediterranean or a Spanish style then you have to add all the details or it will look cheap. We would rather you do a simple contemporary building where you can be honest to the style and the forms. Commissioner Vuksic stated that it could be a skilled interpretation of a certain style of architecture. Mr. Drell stated that possibly a simple building with less detail where mass is important might work better than trying to only half mimic a traditional style. Commissioner Lambell stated that the neighbors will be looking at a huge, boring wall. Mr. Ramirez stated that this is why they have 50' of landscaping and a trash enclosure in this area. Commissioner Lambell stated that it still needs some architecture. It's lacking any pizzazz. Mr. Drell stated that the problem with desert landscape is that it doesn't hide blank architecture. Commissioner Lambell stated that the whole thing needs some personality. It's on a very important corner so maybe they need to abandon this style altogether. Mr. Ramirez stated that it might be better to abandon the style and take the form and function and work with that. Commissioner Vuksic stated that whatever style they choose, they have to do it well. Commissioner Oppenheim stated that they've come so far because when they first came in they were trying to make something out of the existing building and now they need some major refinements. Commissioner Lopez pointed out that the directions on the elevations are labeled wrong. Mr. Ramirez asked if there would be any objection to a metal building. Mr. Drell stated that they could do a lot of interesting architecture with metal. Commissioner Vuksic stated that they would have to use their materials in a skilled way. Mr. Ramirez stated that they have three Jiffy Lube buildings going up right now with entirely different architecture than this. Commissioner Vuksic stated that from what he sees here, he would worry about them doing a metal building because you've got to be skilled to do something in metal here that's going to be acceptable and I'm not seeing that sophistication level here. Action: Commissioner Lambell moved, seconded by Commissioner Oppenheim to continue the request to allow the applicant to return with G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR050712.MIN 10 I%e 14W ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION JULY 12, 2005 MINUTES a different architectural style. Motion carried 4-0-0-3 with Commissioners Hanson, Gregory and Van Vliet absent. C. Miscellaneous Action: Commissioner Oppenheim moved, seconded by Commissioner Lopez to add Case No. Misc 05, William R. Withrow, to the agenda. Motion carried 4-0-0-3 with Commissioners Hanson, Gregory and Van Vliet absent. 1. CASE NO.: MISC 05 APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): WILLIAM R. WITHROW, 72-869 Arboleda Drive, Palm Desert, CA 92211 NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request approval of exterior paint color of a single-family residence. LOCATION: 72-869 Arboleda Drive ZONE: R1 Mr. Smith showed the commission photographs of the home, which has already been painted. William Withrow, applicant, was present and stated that he didn't know that he had to get approval to paint his house. It's an older house that was built in 1949 and has a flat roof. Mr. Drell stated that this house is more adaptable to this sort of color. Mr. Withrow stated that he's going to purchase a new white garage door. The trim will be white. Mr. Drell suggested using a grey or Cape Code grey for the trim to soften it. Commissioner Lopez suggested leaving the duct work and air conditioning equipment white. Action: Commissioner Vuksic moved, seconded by Commissioner Oppenheim for approval subject to painting the trim a grey-blue color to be approved by staff. Motion carried 4-0-0-3 with Commissioners Hanson, Gregory and Van Vliet absent. VI. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 1:55 p.m. STEVE SMITH PLANNING MANAGER G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs\Agmin\AR050712.MIN 11