HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023-02-14 . , � '�.r�
�..-T--�
CITY OF PALM DESERT
�-� -- ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
MINUTES
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
****************************************************************************************************
I. CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 12:30 p.m.
II. ROLL CALL
Commissioners Current Meeting Year to Date
Present Absent Present Absent
Ronald Gregory, Chairman X 3
Kristi Hanson X 3
Chris Van Vliet X 3
John Vuksic X 3
Ray Lopez X 2 1
Karen Oppenheim X 3
Karel Lambell X 3
Also Present:
Phil Drell, Director, Community Development
Steve Smith, Planning Manager
Francisco Urbina, Associate Planner
Tony Bagato, Assistant Planner
Ryan Stendell, Assistant Planner
Donna Quaiver, Senior Office Assistant
Diane Hollinger, Landscape Specialist
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: JANUARY 24, 2006
Commissioner Lambell moved, seconded by Commissioner Oppenheim to
approve the minutes of January 24, 2006. The motion carried 6-0-0-1 with
Commissioner Lopez absent.
IV. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
A. None
1
. � '�r�►v
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
MINUTES
A. Final Drawinqs
1. CASE NO.: SA 06-21
APPLICANT LAND ADDRESS):JIM ENGLE, JR., IMPERIAL SIGN
CO., INC., 46-120 Calhoun Street, Indio, CA 92201
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request approval of
business signage for Home Stone Mortgage.
LOCATION: 74-130 Country Club Drive
ZONE: OP
Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner
Lambell for approval by minute motion. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with
Commissioner Lopez absent.
2. CASE NO.: SA 05-149
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): LA CASITA RESTAURANTS,411 E.
Palm Canyon Drive, Palm Springs, CA 92264
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request approval to
amend sign program to allow previously installed business signage for
La Casita Restaurant.
LOCATION: 77-912 Country Club Drive
ZONE: PC
Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner
Lambell for approval by minute motion. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with
Commissioner Lopez absent.
3. CASE NO.: MISC 06-03
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS):ALCARE CO., INC., 576 S. Williams
Road, Palm Springs, CA 92264
G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs�AgminWR060214.MIN 2
. �rr' 'v�r�+�
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
AGENDA
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request approval of
an Alumawood carport located 22' from the face of curb at a single-
family residence.
LOCATION: 74-873 Merle Street
ZONE: R-1
Mr. Smith commented that legal notices were sent out to the neighbors
and asked if anyone in the audience was present to address the
commission regarding the above proposal. None were present to
speak on this issue.
The applicant was present and commented that the carport is located
at 20' from the curb.
Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner
Gregory for approval. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with Commissioner Lopez
absent.
4. CASE NO.: MISC 06-02
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): CHAD LUSE, 8145 Tamarisk Avenue,
Yucca Valley, CA 92284
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request approval of a
carport located 22'6" from the face of curb at a single-family residence.
LOCATION: 77-090 New York Avenue
ZONE: R-1
Mr. Stendell stated that the proposed carport looks nice and provides
shaded cover. Mr. Smith commented that legal notices were sent out
to the neighbors and asked if anyone in the audience was present to
speak to the matter. No comments were made.
Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner
Vuksic for approval. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with Commissioner Lopez
absent.
G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocsWgminWR060214.MIN 3
. . � �
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
AGENDA
5. CASE NO.: SA 06-31
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): DENNIS STOUT, 504 E. Palmyra,
Orange, CA 92210
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request approval of
business signage for Wells Fargo Bank.
LOCATION: 34-340 Monterey Avenue; Gateway Center
ZONE: PC
Mr. Bagato stated that the proposed bank will be part of the Desert
Gateway Center. The commission previously approved the elevations
for Wells Fargo Bank. The applicant is proposing internally illuminated
letters. The red background won't light up, but the letters will light up.
They're proposing four signs.
Commissioner Van Vliet commented that the elevations don't look like
the elevations are drawn to scale. Signs 1 & 3 show that they have
letters that are 7.6" tall and the other sign shows letters that are almost
14" tall, but the elevations look like they're drawn the same size.
Commissioner Vuksic commented that some of the drawings are
dimensioned incorrectly. The first one is a 7" x 7" square so there's no
way the letters are 7.6" tall. They're probably twice as big as shown on
the drawings.
Commissioner Gregory stated that they might have the numbers wrong,
but the proportions still work.
Commissioner Van Vliet suggested having letters that don't exceed
13.8" in height. The applicant agreed to this condition.
Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner
Vuksic for approval subject to confirmation by staff that the letters and
proportions are correct with the letters being no more than 13.8" in
height. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with Commissioner Lopez absent.
G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocsWgmin�,4R060214.MIN 4
. , � �
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
AGENDA
6. CASE NO.: SA 06-32
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): BEST SIGNS, INC., GILLIAN CROSS,
1550 Gene Autry Trail, Palm Springs, CA 92264
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request approval of
monument sign and wall signs for Intertile.
LOCATION: 74-824 42�d Avenue
ZONE: SI
Mr. Stendell stated that he didn't see any problems with the monument
sign or the smaller wall sign, however, the sign on the upper wall would
look better if it were located on the far upper left corner of the building.
Gillian Cross, representative for Best Signs, was present and stated
that this would not be a problem.
Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner
Oppenheim for approval subject to moving the wall sign to the far upper
left corner of the building. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with Commissioner
Lopez absent.
7. CASE NO.: PP 05-03
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): PALM DESERT ASSOCIATES,
Thomas W. Gilmer, 701 S. Parker, Suite 1000, Orange, CA 92868
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request final approval
of elevations for eleven office/industrial buildings.
LOCATION: 73-800 Dinah Shore
ZONE: SI
Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner
Lambell for final approval subject to approval of a landscape plan by
the Landscape Manager. Building permits will not be issued until final
G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocsWgmin�AR060214.MIN 5
, , �' '�wr�`
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
MINUTES
approval of the landscape plan. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with
Commissioner Lopez absent.
8. CASE NO.: PP 03-11
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): THE EVANS COMPANY, 74-000
Country Club Drive, Suite H-2, Palm Desert, CA 92211
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Final approval of
elevations for buildings 2A and 2B at The Village at University Park.
LOCATION: 37-825 Cook Street
ZONE: PCD
Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner
Lambell for final approval by minute motion. Motion carried 5-0-1-1 with
Commissioner Vuksic abstaining and Commissioner Lopez absent.
B. Preliminary Plans
1. CASE NO.: PP 05-05/CUP 05-01
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESSI: ERNEST RAMIREZ, 668 N. Pacific
Coast Highway, Suite 517, Laguna Beach, CA 92651
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request approval of
revised elevations and color board for the conversion of existing
Texaco gas station to a new Jiffy Lube drive through facility.
LOCATION: 74-180 Highway 111
ZONE: C-1
Commissioner Vuksic stated that there are some items that need
clarification, but the overall project looks great. He thanked Burt
Tarayao, project architect, for providing the sections, which were useful.
In section C, the glass in the customer lounge is shown flush to the
exterior wall, but I don't think it is. Mr. Tarayao stated that the windows
will be inset. Commissioner Vuksic stated that in section A in the
G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocsWgminWR060214.MIN �
. . �wr `�✓
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
MINUTES
customer lounge there's glass that's flush to the wall and asked the
architect if he could bring the soffit out six more inches to get some
reveal. Mr. Tarayao agreed to add a projection to add shadow lines.
Commissioner Vuksic stated that the south elevation has some wall
space above the storefront glass that goes to the ground and it looks
like it's flush with the glass. Mr. Tarayao stated that it's recessed.
Commissioner Vuksic stated that section D doesn't show that recess.
Commissioner Hanson suggested dropping the soffit. Commissioner
Vuksic concurred and commented that it's important for the glass to line
up. Don't leave a flat spot that would look like you intended to put glass
there but the contractor forgot because that's what it looks like.
Mr. Bagato showed the commission alternative exterior colors for their
review. The drawing shows a steel color. The alternate is more of a
warmer color in the brown range. Commissioner Lambell commented
that she liked the warmer color better.
Mr. Bagato asked the commission about the proposed signage. Jiffy
Lube usually uses red lettering, but they're proposing a cherry cola
color for the letters. Commissioners Hanson and Vuksic commented
that the color looks very nice.
Mr. Tarayao asked which color the commission would prefer.
Commissioners Vuksic and Lambell commented that they like the
warmer color. Mr. Smith stated that the architect has the ability to ask
the commission to change the color when working drawings are
submitted for final approval. Commissioner Hanson stated that it is a
building that's related to automobiles, so the steel color might be
appropriate.
Action: Commissioner Vuksic moved, seconded by Commissioner
Lambell for preliminary approval of architecture only, subject to
changes discussed with the architect. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with
Commissioner Lopez absent.
2. CASE NO.: PP 04-13
APPLICANT �AND ADDRESS): LOWE'S HOME IMPROVEMENT, 35-
850 Monterey Avenue, Palm Desert, CA 92211
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Comments on
proposal of outdoor display of inerchandise.
G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocsWgminWR060214.MIN �
, . +r�,�+ `rrr✓
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
MINUTES
LOCATION: 35-850 Monterey Avenue
ZONE: PC
Mr. Smith stated that when the precise plan was approved a condition
was added that stated that there would be no outdoor storage or
merchandising. The City Council did approve three special events per
year in the parking lot. The applicant would now like to do four areas
around the building where they'll display merchandise. Starting at the
south end adjacent to the Garden Center they want to do annual color
and live plants. We don't see an issue with that as long as we preserve
adequate pedestrian flow in this area. Along the front of the building
there is a 12' wide loading zone, which is the full length of the building
so we're giving them lots of room for pedestrian flow. They have 21' of
sidewalk, so there's a lot of room for plant material. Just south of the
main entrance to the building where they have an alcove that's 37"
from the curb back to the building. There is a landscape planter in this
area. They would like to put a hot dog cart here and also other
merchandise that they sell in the store. The picnic tables would be
available for the customers of the hot dog stand. It was suggested that
this area be delineated with low fencing.
Commissioner Van Vliet asked about the type of inerchandise that
would be displayed by the hot dog stand. Mr. Smith stated that they
would like to put BBQ's in this area. Commissioner Hanson asked if
they have space for that on the inside. Mr. Smith stated that their
building is 153,000 square feet. The commissioners felt that displaying
BBQ's outside would look tacky. Commissioner Hanson commented
that she didn't feel that they need to display grills outside. The picnic
tables and swing set are fine because they're usable.
Commissioner Lambell stated that her concern with the Garden Center
is something that she saw at another home improvement store on
Monterey where they put temporary fencing around part of the parking
lot and then put seasonal annuals in there with a cashier. Is that going
to happen at Lowe's? Mr. Smith stated that this will not happen at
Lowe's. In the lumbar yard area the applicant would like to have a few
pallets of brick and block for customers to be able to pick up. Our idea
is to put in a couple of wing walls sticking out approximately 42" and 6'
in height so that we can contain the area where the building materials
will be located. This would prevent the area from spreading.
Commissioner Van Vliet stated that it could be stacked high. Mr. Smith
G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocsWgmin�,4R060214.MIN g
. . v�r "�
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
MINUTES
stated that the fencing would be 6' high and that's the maximum height
for the pallets.
Mr. Smith stated that there's a driveway that goes east-west with a 30'
landscape strip, which was just finished last week. They would like to
put six storage sheds in this area for display. In talking with Spencer
Knight and Diane Hollinger, they don't have a problem with it as long as
they amend the plan appropriately and re-design the landscaping and
re-plant it. The commission agreed that the storage sheds don't belong
outside because they have such a huge building that should be used to
display their merchandise. Mr. Smith reminded the commission that
this will be 450 feet from the street. The only people who are going to
see it are the people who drive on their site to be their customers.
Commissioner Van Vliet stated that it's going to look tacky and junky.
Commissioner Hanson suggested that they add a wall in front of the
storage sheds. Unless they make some effort to screen them from the
parking lot view, they should put them inside.
Action: The Architectural Review Commission commented as follows:
(1) The commission questioned the need for outdoor barbeque display
(2) Appropriate screening and containment is needed for the outdoor
building material display area and outdoor storage shed display areas.
3. CASE NO.: PP 06-01, C/Z 06-02
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS):TERRA NOVA PLANNING &
RESEARCH, 400 S. Farrell Drive, Suite B-205, Palm Springs, CA
92262
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request preliminary
approval of a 268-unit condominium community and a 41,476 square
foot neighborhood commercial center. The Vineyard
LOCATION: Northwest corner of Cook Street and Frank Sinatra
ZONE: PR-5
Ryan Ogulnick, applicant, was present to address the commission.
New exhibits were distributed for the commission to review. Dennis
Lee and Kim Daniel, project architects, were also present to answer
questions. Mr. Lee was responsible for site planning and Ms. Daniel
was working on the residential architecture. The third and fourth
G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocsWgmin�AR060214.MIN 9
. . �r �
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
MINUTES
architects who are not present worked on the commercial architecture.
The project is mixed use with 268 condominiums and has 41,000
square feet of retail. On the residential, there are four building types
ranging from two units to ten units. The spaces for the commercial
range from 1,200 square feet to 8,000 square feet. Mr. Smith stated
that there is a well site on the project which is owned by CVWD.
Commissioner Vuksic asked if the applicant is just looking for direction
on the commercial component. There isn't a lot to go by on the plans
that have been presented. Mr. Ogulnick stated that he'd like feedback
on the site plan. College Drive is the main entry for the residential
portion. There's an ancillary entry on Frank Sinatra and there's a
shared entry for both the residential and commercial on Cook Street.
There's a second entry for the commercial on University Drive.
Commissioner Hanson asked if the idea is by doing the commercial
area, you'll create a place for your residents to eat. Mr. Ogulnick stated
that it's an added amenity for the residential owners. There will be 450
residents so the commercial certainly can't survive with just the
residents. When the college grows and the rest of the homes are built
in this area, they will support the commercial aspect of the project.
There will be two restaurant pads in the front of the commercial that are
around 4,000 square feet each and then possibly a bank and a gym.
The rest will be possibly dry cleaning, sandwich shops, etc... What
would be most helpful is if the commission would look at the residential
architecture and make comments.
Commissioner Hanson stated that a lot of the photos that were put into
the packets as examples show details of very high-end projects. I'm
not seeing the translation into the proposed architecture. Mr. Ogulnick
stated that it's really meant to isolate components, either eaves or
rafter tails or garage doors or arches. It's not meant to represent the
overall look. Commissioner Hanson strongly suggested that they
isolate those individual components because I think it's very deceptive.
I think you're going to get into trouble if you try and represent this as a
photo of ideas of what you're doing, when it isn't. Be very careful with
that. A photo of an architectural stone detail was shown to the
applicant because it didn't wrap back into anything. The applicant was
urged to fix this and wrap the stone around the element.
Commissioner Vuksic commented that the arches on the residential
elevations look very thin. It's almost like paper architecture where
you're building a model and you add a little facade. There's no depth
G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs�Agmin�AR060214.MIN 1�
. � �
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
MINUTES
to the arches. Commissioner Hanson stated that the issue is that when
you have a situation with a door below, right now exactly above the
door is where the arches align. In reality, it would come in and you
always offset the arches and they never align exactly with an element
below. Maybe you could make the arches bigger, but separate them
into two so that everything isn't aligning so much. Mr. Lee stated that it
would be difficult to make the arches bigger. Commissioner Vuksic
stated that they could use a flatter arch. Commissioner Hanson stated
that there are a lot of options for things that you can do. It doesn't
necessarily have to be an arch if you have issues with trying to figure
out how to get the arches in. If they're wider there are ways to
accomplish a very nice opening without having an arch.
Commissioner Vuksic stated that when he looks at the floor plans, I see
a lot of 2 x 6 walls with glass on very visible faces of the building and
I'm concerned about how flat it will look. You need to pick spots where
you can make some really thick walls to get some nice shadow lines.
Mr. Ogulnick asked how thick the sills should be. Commissioner Vuksic
stated that on small windows you need to have a minimum of 6" back
to the window and on a larger window, it needs to be anywhere from
12" to 24". Mr. Ogulnick asked Commissioner Vuksic for specific
measurements for each size window and Commissioner Vuksic
commented that it should be whatever looks right. Commissioner
Hanson stated that the idea is to give it some depth because they have
some large plaster surfaces and if you don't have the windows setback
you're not going to get any shadow and they're going to come across
very flat and that's what we're trying to prevent. Commissioner Vuksic
stated that the same thing would apply to the garage doors. They're
only inset 6" back from the face of the walls and those are big
openings.
Commissioner Hanson requested a full set of '/4 scale plans for herself
and Commissioner Vuksic that they can mark up. Mr. Ogulnick stated
that he can provide the most current set of plans for both the
commissioners.
Mr. Ogulnick asked for comments on the commercial portion of the
project. Commissioner Hanson asked the applicant why they chose to
deviate from the architecture of the housing units. Commissioner Van
Vliet wanted to know why the style of architecture between residential
and commercial was so different. Mr. Ogulnick stated that they wanted
it to look more like the university, which is more modern and
contemporary. Commissioner Hanson asked the applicant to explain
the wall system that they're proposing to use. Mr. Ogulnick stated that
iYs an EFIS system and they're testing some different color schemes.
G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocsWgmin�AR060214.MIN 11
, . �rr °�rr�
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
MINUTES
Commissioner Hanson stated that there are so many different colors
and wondered if it was going to be painted and wondered how it was
got to be accomplished. Mr. Lee stated that it will be stucco.
Commissioner Hanson stated that it's going to be very difficult to get
someone to do the work. I don't really like the candy-stripe elevation
very much, but the idea with the browns is sort of interesting. We need
to see the actual colors. The architecture is interesting. The idea
behind the striping is fun, as long as it's not overdone because then it's
going to lose its effectiveness and look crazy and also the colors
matter. Having color copies isn't good enough. We really want to see
the actual colors. Certain colors are going to wash out with the bright
sunlight and you're going to lose the effectiveness. Form-wise, it's
interesting but I'd like to see the revised floor plans to see how it all
goes together.
Mr. Ogulnick asked what the commission would like for their next
meeting. Commissioner Hanson stated that they'll need floor plans,
plot plans, roof plans and pictures that isolate details that show what's
going to be used in the project.
Commissioner Vuksic stated that when he's looking at the mottled
perspectives he sees some interesting forms and yet when I look at the
elevations in the old submittal, they look completely different. The
colors in the photographs look fabulous but you have to be careful that
you're not overwhelmed with the colors.
Commissioner Lambell commented that the details in the photographs
weren't transferred to the elevations. Commissioner Hanson stated
that the applicant has to isolate the details.
Action: Commissioner Lambell moved, seconded by Commissioner
Oppenheim to continue the request to allow the applicant to return with
a more complete package including changes discussed at the meeting
and (1) roof plans, (2) floor plans, and (3) isolate details and present
pictures that actually represent the architectural elements being used in
the project. Motion carried 5-0-1-1 with Commissioner Gregory
abstaining and Commissioner Lopez absent.
C. Miscellaneous
1. CASE NO.: MISC 06-01
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): KIMBERLY S. DOZIER, 74-255
Goleta Avenue, Palm Desert, CA 92260
G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs�AgminWR060214.MIN 12
. , �rr✓ '`�
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
MINUTES
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request approval of a
4' high wood fence in the front yard 7' from the curb at a single-family
residence.
LOCATION: 74-255 Goleta Avenue
ZONE: R-1
Mr. Smith stated that this matter is before the commission for two
issues. The applicant is requesting approval of a wood fence in a front
yard and also because it would be located 7' from the curb. 7' from the
curb would be on the property line, which is unusual but this is one of
the few streets within the City where the right of way is only 7' from the
curb, therefore, it's not an issue. What the commission is being asked
to approve is the 4' high wood fence in a front yard of a single-family
home.
Kimberly Dozier, applicant, was present and stated that there was an
existing fence in front of her home when she purchased it last summer.
She trimmed the landscaping back to get rid of the dead branches and
to get rid of the garbage that was under it. The plants will grow back
and additional plants will be added after the fence is installed.
Eventually, the fence will be screened with landscaping. The fence will
match the style of the house. I was trying to make my front yard more
useable. Approximately half of my property is in the front of my house.
I wanted a safe area for dogs and children to play.
Commissioner Hanson asked staff why we consider wood to be not an
acceptable material. Would it be because it's a maintenance problem?
Mr. Smith said that typically that's the main reason why wood is not an
approved fencing material. Commissioner Hanson stated that
everything is a maintenance problem if you don't take care of it. Mr.
Smith stated that the ordinance provides that you can request an
exception through the ARC process.
Ms. Dozier commented that she didn't go blindly into this. I did do
extensive research on the City's Building & Safety website, which I later
learned was not the proper department. I extensively looked through
the permit and fee schedules and found no reference to fences. I also
had looked at other newly built fences in my neighborhood and nearby
streets that are of wood. I don't know if these are people who did not
get a permit or if they had been granted an exception. I chose wood
partly because it was affordable and I was able to do it myself. I did not
have the money to hire a contractor to put in a block wall. I'm a very
G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocsWgminWR060214.MIN 13
. . �r `'rrrr�
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
MINUTES
proud homeowner and I will maintain the fence in an appropriate
manner.
Commissioner Hanson asked if the fence was going to be painted or
left natural. Ms. Dozier stated that it's cedar and I would like to leave it
natural. Much of it will eventually be screened by landscaping. I can
add a product to maintain the wood fence. I don't want it to look worn
and faded either and I don't intend to let it fall apart.
Commissioner Hanson commented that a wood fence doesn't offend
me. I realize that it's a maintenance issue. It appears that the
applicant has done a very nice job in building it and it looks
professionally done. I don't have a problem with it.
Commissioner Vuksic asked what direction the fence faces. Ms. Dozier
stated that it's facing north. Commissioner Vuksic commented that if
the part of the fence that people see is the north elevation, it will be the
side that gets the least amount of sun exposure.
Commissioner Lambell stated that water stains wood fencing. It will get
sprinkler marks on it. Ms. Dozier stated that her sprinklers point away
from the fence. Commissioner Lambell stated that the wood fence
doesn't offend her. It's wood and goes atl the way across. It's not
trying to be something different.
Commissioner Gregory commented that the driveway gate looks just
like the fence so it all matches and creates an entry to the home.
Commissioner Vuksic stated that he was worried about the proposal
because there are a lot of really bad-looking fences around. I will vote
to approve it but I hope that we're not setting a precedent.
Commissioner Gregory stated that we'll likely face future residents
wanting to put up wood fences and may show this one as precedent. Is
there something of a unique quality to this particular fence which makes
it something that would be appropriate? The items that make this
particular fence appropriate are the following: the fence it matches the
house, the applicant is planning to plant in front of it so as little of the
fence would be seen, it's well shaded, it's facing north, it's low, the
sprinklers don't hit it and the wood will be treated with a preservative.
Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner
Oppenheim for approval subject to sealing wood with an appropriate
preservative. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with Commissioner Lopez absent.
G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs�P,gmin�,4R060214.MIN 14
. . �,r wirir�
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
MINUTES
2. CASE NO.: MISC 06-04
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): SOUTH BEACH RESTAURANT AND
NIGHT CLUB, 72-191 Highway 111, Palm Desert, CA 92260
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Request approval of
extension of exterior wall from 6' to 14' in height using a sound barrier
system.
LOCATION: 72-191 Highway 111
ZONE: R-1
Mr. Smith stated that the proposal is to extend the existing wall around
the west end of the property from 6' in height to 14' in height with a
glass block sound barrier system, which they're hoping would mitigate
some of the noise problems that have been occurring. The
commission's consideration is the aesthetic value of the wall.
Commissioner Hanson commented that it's an inappropriate use for the
entrance to the City from Rancho Mirage. The proposed wall would be
"in your face" and is only going to make this corner look worse than it
looks right now. I appreciate the fact that they have a sound issue, but
this is not the appropriate way to solve it. It looks horrible.
Mr. Smith commented that the applicant was not present.
Commissioner Vuksic asked if there was any water in the area of the
patio. Commissioner Hanson stated that they have a pond in this area.
Commissioner Van Vliet stated that there isn't much noise from the
pond and they're trying to overcome more than just a little subtle sound.
Commissioner Oppenheim commented that the glass block wall would
probably glow and sparkle.
Commissioner Gregory stated that he appreciates the effort by the
applicant because iYs a sincere way to try to mitigate the problem, but it
really looks tacky. If they could use some type of foliage it might give
them more of a sense of privacy and then use some type of massive
water feature inside to cover the sound. Mr. Smith stated that the
sound problem is the noise coming from the patio and traveling to the
residential neighborhood in Rancho Mirage several hundred feet to the
west. The goal was to create a sound barrier.
G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs�P,gminWR060214.MIN i s
, . �r '��rwr'
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
MINUTES
Commissioner Hanson recommended that the applicant hire an
acoustical engineer who could give them appropriate ways to handle
this issue, as opposed to them trying to figure it out themselves.
The commission suggested that the applicant turn the music down.
Martin Alvarez, Management Analyst for the City of Palm Desert, was
present at the end of the meeting to address the commission regarding
the above proposal. Mr. Alvarez commented that this is an issue that's
affecting residents across the street. South Beach has become a hot
spot and is open until 2:00 a.m. The patio is packed and as the
ambient noise drops in the evenings when traffic dies down, the noise
from the patio funnels across Highway 111 and down Park View. The
applicant has approached the City with this solution. Commissioner
Hanson asked how they came up with this solution. Mr. Alvarez stated
that someone recommended it to them. An acoustical engineer has
looked at their interior sound issue, which originally was their main
problem. Their bass was traveling down the streets. They've made
some adjustments so now it's crowd noise from the patio. It gets
crowded and they have to keep it open for smokers. We have
temporarily shut the patio down until they can find some type of
mitigation to solve this. The product is a sound-absorbing material. It's
non-reflective. It's been used throughout California and in Las Vegas
for sound mitigation purposes. It looks like glass block. This is
something that the City is trying to resolve without having to go to the
courts. The commission was asked for suggestions if this idea doesn't
work for this site.
Commissioner Hanson stated that the bottom line is that it's the first
thing you see as you come into Palm Desert. It's gaudy and it doesn't
belong there. You're taking a situation that doesn't look good to begin
with and making it worse. Mr. Smith asked if we have anything from an
acoustical engineer saying that this will solve the problem? Mr. Alvarez
stated that they don't have anything from an acoustical engineer.
Commissioner Hanson stated that there are lots of options available to
� people for acoustical problems that can be much more beautiful looking
than this. This is just something that they heard about and they
thought they would try it. If they want to do it, they need to find some
way to do it that's aesthetically pleasing as well. Commissioner Van
Vliet stated that there's no guarantee that it would work. Commissioner
Hanson stated that the problem is that they're right up against the
mountains so you're going to get a lot of reverberated noise that the
proposed wall isn't going to solve. Mr. Alvarez stated that they also
have the storm channel near Park View that carries sound.
G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocsWgminWR060214.MIN 16
, . �� "wr�
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 14, 2006
MINUTES
Commissioner Lambell asked if the glass block material would go all
the way around the wall. Mr. Alvarez stated that it's only proposed to
be installed at the corner and about 40' stepping down on each side.
Commissioner Lambell stated that it's going to look even worse
because it's going to leave some of the low plastered wall without the
block on top of it. Mr. Alvarez stated that this is a self-supporting
structure, which would be right behind the plaster wall. Commissioner
Hanson stated that if they hired an acoustical engineer who knew what
they were doing, they would be much better served. They'll have more
of a guarantee that it might actually work.
Commissioner Van Vliet asked if the City was going to help get an
engineer. Mr. Alvarez stated that we're not creating this situation so
obviously�ve're not responsible for it. Commissioner Van Vliet stated
that if the City wants them to succeed we could help them solve the
problem. Otherwise, they could close their doors and go someplace
else.
Commissioner Vuksic asked how much space is in the patio area. Mr.
Alvarez stated that the patio is huge and they have a pond within 5' of
the wall and then it drops down about 10'. Commissioner Vuksic stated
that it's already a really tall wall from the inside. Now I really wonder
how much difference that would make if they added the glass block.
Commissioner Hanson stated that the problem is that the noise hits
that mountain and bounces right back. Commissioner Van Vliet stated
that that's something that a sound engineer could tell us.
Action: Commissioner Hanson moved, seconded by Commissioner
Van Vliet for denial because it was felt that the wall modification would
be inappropriate at the entrance to the City. It was suggested that the
applicant hire an acoustical engineer to develop a sound mitigation
plan. Motion carried 6-0-0-1 with Commissioner Lopez absent.
VI. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 2:00 p.m.
STEVE SMITH
PLANNING MANAGER
G:Planning\Donna Quaiver\wpdocs�P,gmin�AR060214.MIN 1�