HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-08-26 t
��•�� CITY OF PALM DESERT
` ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
MINUTES
August 26, 2008
I. CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 12:30 p.m.
II. ROLL CALL
Commissioners Current Meeting Year to Date
Present Absent Present Absent
Ronald Gregory, Chairman X 14 2
Kristi Hanson X 10 6
Chris Van Vliet X 16
John Vuksic X 14 2
Karel Lambell X 15 1
Nancy DeLuna X 14 2
Pam Touschner X 7
Also Present
Lauri Aylaian, Director
Tony Bagato, Principal Planner
Renee Schrader, Associate Planner
Kevin Swartz, Assistant Planner
Missy Grisa, Assistant Planner
Diane Hollinger, Landscape Specialist
Janine Judy, Senior Office Assistant
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: August 12, 2008
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Van Vliet, seconded by Commissioner
Lambell, to approve the August 12, 2008 meeting minutes. Motion
carried 5-0-2-0, with Commissioner Hanson and Vuksic abstaining.
IV. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
V. CASES:
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION Vae
MINUTES August 26, 2008
A. Final Drawings:
1. CASE NO: MISC 08-330
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): JMA ARCHITECTURE, 73-995 El
Paseo Suite 201, Palm Desert, CA 92260
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Final approval of
a single family residence with a 17 foot roof height.
LOCATION: 73-550 Ironwood Street
ZONE: R-1 20,000
ACTION:
It was moved by Commissioner Vuksic and seconded by Commissioner
Hanson to grant approval by minute motion. Motion carried 7-0.
2 CASE NO: SA 08-249
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): SIGN-A-RAMA, 41-945
Boardwalk, Suite L, Palm Desert, CA 92211
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Final approval of
sign program: Pointe Monterey
LOCATION: 34-100 to 34-500 Gateway Drive
ZONE: S.I
Ms. Grisa presented staff report and summarized the project. She
informed the Commission that this item was on the agenda about a
month ago. The first time it was submitted Staff recommended
approval but there was a few items that needed to be clarified
before final approval. One of the items mentioned in the drawing
specifications was that no landscaping was to be removed. Some
of the signs were in locations that were blocked by tall palms, so
that is now a part of the new sign program. The monument signs
had designs in them which have now been removed. At this time,
they are requesting approval of location only. The signs in Phase II
have an architectural keystone feature in the center that needs to
be reviewed so signs do not go across that. Signs proposed for the
corridor down the back are either illuminated or non-illuminated.
The illuminated signs would have a day/night feature which means
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during the day they would be black and at night they would turn
light. There is vinyl lettering that will allow them to identify each
tenant on the front and back doors in oyster or dark brown colors to
contrast with the building.
Mr. Bagato stated that Sign-A-Rama had some modified elevations
to present. Mr. Rick Salmon, representative, stated that after
discussing with Staff there were some locations on Phase II that
they have decided to put on the outside edges of the cornices and
in the middle of the three units. The middle suite they pushed it off
of the cornice and down underneath the cornice. Mr. Bagato
pointed out that the first time around they discussed looking at this
as a feature and putting the sign where it made more sense. The
problem with this element was that there would be a raceway in the
back of that and running a wire was going to be a real problem.
He informed the Commission that the sign program they were
looking at today was based on the meeting staff had with them to
adjust it to a level we thought the Commission would find
acceptable.
The Commission reviewed the plans and discussed the sign
program. Ms. Grisa stated that the signs were above the twenty
foot height limit, but based on the architecture some of the
suggested spots fit the building well.
Commissioner Touschner stated that if the tenant signs are on the
outside corner there would be some consistency. If it's not going to
be centered then she thought it should be consistent in where it is
located. Mr. Bagato stated that staff wanted the end caps centered
so that it would be consistent, but the problem was that that the
keystone element is a dark brown color and if you put a dark sign
on it, it won't read well. That is why they discussed putting it at the
end of each of the corner pieces above the center piece. The
middle of the reveal is white so those signs could have them in the
middle if there is a middle tenant. Mr. Salmon stated that there are
only three buildings out of the eight that have the middle unit.
Commissioner Vuksic stated that he liked what they were trying to
do, but they really look like they need to be centered above the
glass because they look like an afterthought up there. He asked if
there was some other way to do that. Commissioner Gregory
suggested that they use some type of light signage on the dark
background so the dark signs would work and if you used a
different color that was lighter it would work just fine.
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Mr. Salmon stated that there are basically two projects; one is the
office project which is the lower building with the arches and the
other is light industrial that sits behind it. All of it is Pointe Monterey
Business Park but it is two different projects and they are designed
slightly different. The common feature that they both have is the
white cornice so they were trying to keep some kind of continuity.
The Commission reviewed the plans.
Commissioner Vuksic stated that given the architecture it just
seems so clear that the signs ought to be over the glass not on the
top element, but on the reveal beneath it; down below the keystone.
Another option might be to change the paint color in those
particular areas to some color that is more compatible with the sign
that they have chosen.
Commissioner Gregory stated there is a classic struggle where
people want signs as high as possible and the building serves as a
great backdrop for signs. The Commission looks at trying to
maintain the dignity of the architecture and not having signs quite
so high. Mr. Salmon discussed dropping them all to the reveal right
above the windows below the cornice and changing the paint color
on all of them to dark brown except for the three that they have
already moved down; which are white. Commissioner Hanson
stated that they don't necessarily have to change the paint color
they can just change the color of the signage itself, it could be a
lighter version instead of doing everything all dark; you can pick
gold or burnished silver something that would go with the building
and use that consistently. Commissioner Vuksic stated that the
field underneath the keystone is a nicer shape, it is longer. He
noticed that the signs are drawn much smaller than what they are
asking for as far as the letter size so he thought they would have a
hard time fitting them on there where they are going to look good
and be approvable to the sides of the keystone.
The Commission discussed the architectural feature and the
location of the signs. Commissioner Vuksic was concerned with
the size of the signs that were being requested. The words on the
signs are so much smaller than the signs that they were being
proposed and is He suggested that they represent it to scale as far
as the maximum size they were asking for. Commissioner
Touschner stated that when you get a tenant that has a longer
name than say seven letters it's going to take up a lot of room and
be very tight in there. Mr. Salmon stated that they made the
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envelope so it would be a two line structure. Commissioner Vuksic
stated that it already looked odd and by the time they try to stick
real names on there it is going to look even more squished.
The Commission discussed the letter sizes with the applicant.
Commissioner Vuksic stated that he was concerned with the letter
sizes and recommended that they submit the proper sized lettering
to staff for their review.
ACTION:
It was moved by Commissioner Vuksic and seconded by Commissioner
Touschner to grant approval subject to: 1) signs to be located below the
keystone elements; 2) lettering shown to scale on the drawings; and 3) staff
to review the revisions and approve them at staff level. Motion carried 7-0.
3. CASE NO: SA 08-329
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): ADAGIO GALLERIES, 73-300 El
Paseo A&B, Palm Desert, CA 92260
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Final approval of
the addition of awnings for business identification and solar
protection; Adagio Galleries.
LOCATION: 73-300 El Paseo A&B
ZONE: C-1
Mr. Swartz summarized the project. He indicated that this is an
approval for a new awning and signage for Suite A & B. The awning
would be above the window with signage on the lower portion of the
awning. The Commission reviewed the project. He presented photos
of the awnings and color samples.
ACTION:
It was moved by Commissioner Hanson and seconded by Commissioner
Touschner to grant approval. Motion carried 7-0.
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4. CASE NO: SA 08-333
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): SARIT, Samir Aghrani, 77-130 Ste
D, El Paseo, CA 92260
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Final approval of
the addition of awnings for business identification and solar
protection; Sarit.
LOCATION: 77-130 Ell Paseo Suite D
ZONE: C-1
Mr. Swartz summarized the project. He indicated that the current
awning is black and the applicant was requesting a change to red.
He presented photos and pointed out where the awning would be
located. Commissioner Touschner indicated that the awning was
not centered over the opening or centered among the pilasters.
Commissioner Vuksic agreed with Commission Touschner and
stated that the awning has to respond to the architectural features
above it and be centered or it would look stuck on there without any
consideration for the building.
Commissioner Touschner stated that she cared more about its
relationship with the pilasters which is the piece of the architecture
that you will see first. Commissioner Hanson thought it would be
better to keep it low as it relates to the trim piece. Commissioner
Vuksic stated that it was better to pull it away from the curved
awning to the left because when you have a curved awning you
need some relief, you can't just slam up next to it. Awnings need to
compliment each other without trying to be consistent with heights
on awnings. He suggested doing something with the awning
where it wasn't the same height as the one to the right of it.
Mr. Jim Sadler, representative for American Awnings, stated that
the yellow awning to the right is actually a square stretch type
where it comes down at a pretty sharp angle and if we come down
too low it's still going to block. He understood what Commissioner
Vuksic was saying if they come down a foot or so it would still make
a difference where it wouldn't be lined up with that horizontal
architectural feature up there. He was agreeable to dropping the
awning down. As far as the gap on the side, the reason they are
doing that is because there isn't a lot of room from glass to glass so
they are just showing that they are together but there usually is
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some kind of relief between the two. He explained that he can't
shrink it too much width wise because it is right on the glass. He
stated that he could shrink it down width wise just enough to get on
some wall to secure it.
Commissioner Vuksic stated felt that it needed to drop more than a
few feet to get away from the spools. Commissioner Touschner
stated that you either have to be below the bands across the
building or go all the way to the top and then you are competing
with the spindles. Commissioner Vuksic asked the representative
if he can come back with a lower one that jets out farther. Mr.
Sadler stated that he would like to keep them all at the same
projection, but he agreed to drop the top down and would give it as
much gap as he can on the side and still have some meat on the
wall to secure it. Commissioner Vuksic felt that in order for it to get
away from relating to the spools it has to drop more than a foot.
The Commission and applicant reviewed and discussed the heights
and size of the awning. It was suggested that the representative
bring back an elevation that shows the whole building.
Commissioner Vuksic stated that scaling the awning down to get it
away from the spools would be a very important thing to do.
Commissioners Hanson and Vuksic stated that they will go out to
the site and review this in context and then give staff some
feedback. Mr. Sadler asked if he should wait for their input or get to
work on scaling things down a little and submit to staff.
Commissioner Hanson informed him again that they would go out
and take a look at the site and then give staff their feedback and
staff could assist him at that time.
ACTION:
It was moved by Commissioner Vuksic and seconded by Commissioner
Lambell continued Case No. SA 08-333 subject to: 1) Commission to drive
by to review the awning in context with the building and submit their findings
to Staff; and, 2) scale the awning down to get away from spools. Motion
carried 7-0.
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5. CASE NOS: VAR 08-304
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): NATIONAL SIGN & MARKETING
CORPORATION, 13580 5t Street, Chino, CA 91710
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Final approval of
a monument sign for: Carl's Jr.
LOCATION: 36-879 Cook Street
ZONE: PCD FCOZ
Mr. Swartz summarized this project. He stated that this was a
request for a variance for a monument sign on Cook Street and
because of the variance it will have to go to Planning Commission
for approval; it is here today for the architecture. He explained that
the way the code reads is that you get a monument sign for a large
center such as this for frontage. The owner wants a sign at the
corner of University Village for shops and retail and currently they
have one on the entrance off of Cook Street, so any new sign
proposed has to go through a variance. One option could be if the
owner were to remove one of the monument signs then they could
do a multi-tenant sign. Staff feels that due to clustering they didn't
want to set precedence of approving the monument sign and
having another business come back and want the same.
Mr. Steve Rosenblum, National Sign & Marketing Corporation,
understands staff's concerns and felt that they have an option to
work with that by creating a sign that compliments the rest of the
shopping center. It is designed to match the monument signs in the
center. He mentioned that they have a really unique situation for
this site. The site is actually fronting on Gerald Ford; however it
has a Cook Street address. The downside to a site like this is that
they have this great location with no traffic; no one even knows the
restaurant is there. He explained that Carl's Jr. operates with about
75% to 80% of its business in the driveway but if you can't
communicate to the motoring public who travels up and down Cook
Street it doesn't do so well. A monument sign is really needed out
on Cook Street to notify the motoring public that we are there. He
stated that most businesses in the valley that are free-standing
restaurants have monuments signs. This restaurant provides a
service to the public and brings in revenue to the city; and they feel
that this is a fairly important thing. We worked with staff and the
landlord, who is supportive of the project.
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Mr. Rosenblum explained that they have designed the sign to
match the center's signage down to the exact same brand and style
of ground lighting, the same block materials. He provided photos of
both day and night views showing the traffic both north and
southbound on Cook Street. The code meets all code
requirements and height requirements for a monument sign. It is a
simple sign to create business success in that center. He
mentioned that all the other sites have Cook Street oriented
signage, whereas Carl's Jr., doesn't have anything that you can see
while traveling down Cook Street.
Commissioner DeLuna suggested a multi-tenant sign that had the
Carl's Jr., logo and would be a better option than sticking a big
monument sign over on Gerald Ford. She was concerned with the
next applicant coming in to request the same thing. Mr. Rosenblum
stated that staff can condition that and stated that it must be for a
drive-thru oriented business only.
Mr. Fred Evans, Developer, stated that it is important to understand
that this is relative to the size of the center. This is an anchor for us
and is our largest tenant to date and it is important from a landlord's
point, a city point and staff and residential point that we support
these businesses that are down there on Cook Street and Gerald
Ford. We should be doing everything that we can to get their
businesses as successful as possible. He stated that they have
worked real hard to come up with a design that works with the
center; it matches the center and works with the current signage. It
is really important that we are working together with Carl's and that
we support the sign and we support the location. We are not going
to re-do our existing signage and add multiple tenant signs on a
sign because it goes against the concept of what the center is. He
stated that they pushed the building against the street so that the
tenants can get signage and that street wouldn't be riddled with
signs. This is something that he thought would support their major
tenant long term and short term. Right now on Cook Street you
have three to four times the traffic as you do on Gerald Ford and he
felt that the public needs to know and that they have a viable eating
option 200 feet off the street.
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Commissioner DeLuna asked when they purchased that site were
they aware of what the requirements were at that time. Mr. Evans
answered yes. Commissioner DeLuna asked if there was
something that has changed that causes them to come now and
request a variance. Mr. Evans said yes because our economy is in
the tank. He explained that when they built the site, they came out
and projected that there would be "X" number of houses around the
neighborhood and there is none; it has dried up, so we have do
everything we can to support these tenants between now and when
that housing starts back up. Commissioner Hanson asked when
the housing goes back up, can the sign come down. Mr. Evans
answered no. Commissioner Hanson asked why not, because then
that defeats his whole point.
The Commission reviewed the other buildings in the center. They
talked about other restaurants or drive-thrush coming into that
center. Mr. Evans stated that in their CC&Rs there will be no other
drive-thru restaurant in that center because the buildings are
designated as office. He stated that if the houses had gone in their
sales would have been much stronger, however we would probably
still be asking for a variance because the amount of traffic on
Gerald Ford is so much less than that of Cook. Commissioner
DeLuna stated that the real estate market will turn and when the
houses are built then the City has a precedence sitting here that is
no longer an issue because you now have the traffic that you are
concerned with now, but yet the sign stays. Mr. Evans agreed
because the conversation of setting precedent has been a historical
conversation with them. Right now in our current condition we
need to do something. We are competing against a Jack-In-The-
Box on the next block up that has a monument sign on their
building that is so big they can park a car under it. We are asking
for a very small sign that matches the center. He mentioned that
they have designed a sign that is appealing and not large. Mr.
Rosenblum stated that if the City was concerned about setting a
precedent, it's a positive precedent you want to set. Think of all the
monument signs in the city. Commissioner Hanson stated that the
Commission doesn't like monument signs. Mr. Rosenblum stated
that this is simple block to match the rest of the center. Mr. Evans
stated that they were just as sensitive to the Commission's
concerns about monument signs.
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The Commission reviewed the locations of the proposed sign and
the entrances to the Center and discussed the visibility of Carl's
coming off the freeway and coming down Cook Street.
Commissioner Gregory asked about a multi tenant sign and not
establishing precedent. Ms. Aylaian, Director of Community
Development stated that if the landlord wanted to change the
monument signs to identify three tenants they could do that in a
single monument sign on Cook Street. Mr. Evans wanted to clarify
that the Commission did not want to see a monument sign, but
would rather see a multi-tenant sign verses a single tenant sign.
Commissioner Gregory stated that the problem is with the variance
issues. Ms. Aylaian stated that they would have to remove their
existing monument sign because they can only have one
monument sign on that site. Mr. Evans stated that he would never
get ownership's approval of removing those entrance signs and
making one multi-tenant sign. He stated that considering that
Carl's is one of their majors they thought it was important to request
a variance for a single tenant sign in that location.
Ms. Aylaian said the existing ordinance stipulates exactly where
you get signs and does not have provisions for drive-thru or vehicle
oriented businesses. She stated that what they are trying to do is
guide businesses through this difficult economic time with an eye
towards the future so that we don't make decisions in the short term
that will be bad in the long term for the community. She said that
the most valid suggestion that she heard is the suggestion by
Commissioner Hanson to put it up for a limited period of time after
which it will be removed when that area is developed. The
Commission discussed the length of time that the sign would stay in
place.
Ms. Aylaian stated that the center currently has a very aggressive
temporary signage program and suggested that they use one of the
several "For Lease" signs on the site. Mr. Evans stated that if that
is part of getting this Carl's sign approved he is more than willing to
do that. Ms. Aylaian stated that what we don't want to do is build
clutter upon clutter and with the temporary signs we are over that
threshold. The Commission discussed the temporary signs and the
length of time that the temporary sign would be there.
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Commissioner Van Vliet stated that he would be opposed to a
temporary sign out there because it just adds clutter. He felt that
their best solution would be to modify their other monument sign on
that side and add Carl's Jr. to it. Mr. Bagato stated that they could
issue a Temporary Use Permit for the temporary sign and review it
after one year. He stated that nothing can be temporary that
requires a building permit; because once they get a building permit
it would be permanent. Ms. Aylaian indicated that the temporary
sign would have to be professionally and nicely done.
Ms. Kelly Karcher, Carl's Jr., mentioned that Carl's Jr., has been
here in the valley for over 30 years. They enjoy being here as a
part of the community and being active in it. She understands that
the City doesn't want a permanent sign on Cook but feels that the
presence of Carl's Jr., is important to the community and local
schools. She stated that if their presence on Cook Street is know,
then that would be increased and they would definitely be there for
everyone.
Mr. Bagato stated that the applicant could decide not to seek a
temporary sign and go on to Planning Commission with ARC
support or denial since this isn't the final step. He asked the
applicant if they wanted to wait and try the temporary first and then
come back later on the variance or move forward on the variance.
Mr. Rosenblum stated that they wanted to move forward. Mr.
Bagato suggested that the Commission make a recommendation
on the application for variance.
ACTION:
It was moved by Commissioner Lambell and seconded by Commissioner
Touschner recommended denial of the Variance request for an additional
monument sign. The Commission approved a temporary sign for a period
of one year, for which design and any extensions of time will be reviewed
by staff and the temporary sign will replace one of the "For Lease" signs
on site. Motion carried 6-0-1-0, with Commissioner Vuksic abstaining.
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B. Preliminary Plans:
1. CASE NO: PP/CUP 08-241
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): RON HENDERSON & MICHAEL
JOHNSTON, 73708 Highway 111, Palm Desert, CA 92260
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Preliminary
approval of conversion of an existing single family structure to an
office building: Farmer's Insurance Building.
LOCATION: 74-426 Alessandro
ZONE: R3 (4)
ACTION:
Item removed from agenda per applicant. No action taken.
2 CASE NO: MISC 08-270
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): CHRISTOPHER MCFADDEN,
ARCHITECT, 72-925 Fred Waring Drive Suite 204, Palm Desert,
CA 92260
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Preliminary
approval of a fagade remodel and A 419 square-foot addition.
LOCATION: 73-750 El Paseo
ZONE: C-1
Mr. Bagato presented this project. He stated that this building is on
the north side of El Paseo and is currently a shoe store. This is a
tear down and rebuild except for one wall.
Commissioner Hanson asked the representative if this was indeed
a tear down. Ms. Kelly Litecky, Project Manager, stated that they
were hoping to leave one wall existing. Commissioner Hanson
referred to the roof plan and asked if the standing metal roof comes
over the top of the gable form or does it die behind it. It seemed to
her that they should have a way to cap that stone off in order for
that to look good. She was concerned that when you take off the
signage there is no way to fix it and then you have holes. She
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suggested creating a spot where signage can be added that can
easily be repaired.
Commissioner Hanson mentioned the parking and access from the
back and asked if there would be access to the store from the rear.
Ms. Litecky stated that they were planning on having the main
access from El Paseo side and it was her understanding that the
rear was going to be more or less a service entrance.
Commissioner Hanson stated that the stores next to this building
have a "go through" and suggested they consider the back not
necessarily just for service access. She stated that they have a
real opportunity with that entrance to do something more
interesting. They also have an opportunity for the back wall to be
something interesting. She also suggested watching the detail as it
relates to the aluminum store front and the Canterra stone. She
suggested losing the last panel of glass on the right side elevation
where there is a very narrow piece of wall to make it feel more like
the back side of the building.
Commissioner Touschner stated that the design is for three stores,
however in the back it really looks like it's designed for two and that
seems odd. She agreed that there should be an entrance through
the corridor or courtyard and that it should be treated like a
courtyard and have some kind of canopy, an enclosure, or
something to give it some interest. Mr. Bagato stated they would
then have service vehicles on El Paseo.
Commissioner Vuksic was concerned with the amount of detail and
material change that is going on in the back with how little space
there is. The glass is set back six inches from the outer most face
and yet he saw Canterra stone coming out past the glass and step
details. He stated that the rendering looks like the element is a
three foot thick element or something that is separate and stands
alone. It appears that the cornice in the front dies into that gable
element, yet when he looked at the section the cornice actually
comes out beyond the gable element. He stated that it would look
odd when it's done. It looks like there is enough thickness in that
front wall to maybe set back those surfaces where the cornices are
and give them the space to die into the gable properly.
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Commissioner Hanson stated that they may have the opportunity to
play with the height across the back and maybe step it back a little.
All the mechanical units are there but maybe that could be the high
section and maybe the two rear sections could drop in some way.
Commissioner Touschner stated that it looks like there are no
lighting plans for the back courtyard/walk through and suggested
that they think about that. Ms. Litecky stated that they were
thinking of lighting back by the entrances.
ACTION:
It was moved by Commissioner Hanson and seconded by Commissioner
Vuksic continued Case MISC 08-270 subject to: 1) create a spot within the
Canterra stone so signage can be added and easily removed without
causing damage; 2) create interest in the rear by: a) adding a canopy or
enclosure to create a courtyard, b) create something interesting with the
back wall, c) consider adding lighting in that area; 3) cap detail on Canterra
stone and watch detail as it relates to the aluminum store front; 4) lose the
last panel of glass on the narrow piece of wall on the right side elevation;
and 5) set back surfaces where cornices are located to give them space to
recede into the gable. Motion carried 7-0.
C. Miscellaneous Items:
None
VI. ADJOURNMENT
It was moved by Commissioner Van Vliet, seconded by Commissioner Vuksic to
adjourn the meeting. Motion carried 7-0. The meeting was adjourned at 2:00
p.m.
TONY BAGATO
PRINCIPAL PLANNER
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