HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-03-11 � �
��•�� CITY OF PALM DESERT
� �
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
• • MINUTES
March 11, 2008
I. CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 12:30 p.m.
II. ROLL CALL
Commissioners Current Meeting Year to Date
Present Absent Present Absent
Ronald Gregory, Chairman X 5
Kristi Hanson X 3 2
Chris Van Vliet X 5
John Vuksic X 4 1
Karel Lambell X 4 1
Nancy DeLuna X 4 1
Also Present
Lauri Aylaian, Director
Tony Bagato, Principal Planner
Renee Schrader, Associate Planner
Kevin Swartz, Assistant Planner
Diane Hollinger, Landscape Specialist
Janine Judy, Senior Office Assistant
I11. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: February 12, 2008 and February 26, 2008
Action:
Both sets of minutes to be approved at the next meeting.
IV. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
V. CASES:
ARCHITECTURAL R�EW COMMISSION '�
MINUTES MARCH 11, 2008
A. Final Drawings:
1. CASE NO: MISC 08-40
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): MICHAEL AND MARIANNE
TOIA, 46-020 Burroweed Lane, Palm Desert, CA 92260
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Final approval of
golf cart barn structure for its aesthetic blending with the existing
home and surrounding community.
LOCATION: 46-020 Burroweed Lane
ZONE: R-2 8000 (4)
Mr. Swartz presented current photos of Ms. Suzanne Pride's side of
wall and asked Mr. Toia to present his comments.
Mr. Michael Toia, applicant, presented current photos and
summarized his structure. He indicated that he has taken some
action to remedy some of the concerns of the Commission. At the
previous meeting there was some concern regarding the
undesirable appearance of the exposed metal flashing on the top of
the front wall of both the garage and the golf cart barn. He
explained that both the garage and the golf cart barn's front walls
were originally trimmed two years ago and the top edges were
trimmed with 90 degree terra cotta etched tiles in order to match
those already existing on the pitched portion of his roof. The
motion detection light has been replaced with a light fixture that
matches the other light fixtures on the home. The original plan
drawing of the height of the front wall in relation to the common wall
called for them to be alike, but when they began to construct the
wall they intended to incorporate a 4 foot by 12 foot beam which
protruded from the existing garage. To maintain a consistent
roofline of the golf barn parallel with the existing garage line, it
became aesthetically necessary to accommodate the extra height.
This was addressed with the field inspector and incorporated prior
to his approval for building final signoff. Mr. Toia removed the
downspout in the gutter located at the common wall. The gutter
previously located at the common wall will be moved to the edge of
the main garage structure. This will catch and divert 90 percent of
the rainwater from the pitched roof of the house and flat roof of the
two car garage. The remaining eight feet of roof section over the
golf cart barn would then be re-foamed to divert the water away
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from the common wall and toward the center of the golf cart barn to
a downspout in the back of the yard. The PVC pipe addressed by
Ms. Pride was used for seasonal winterizing of the swamp cooler,
when brought to his attention he removed it in December. In a
letter dated February 11, 2008, Ms. Pride stated that she wanted
the flashing removed that overlaps onto her side of the common
wall. He presented photos of the flashing dated January 2008 and
photos taken this morning. The January photos show that the
flashing was secured tightly to the wall; somehow in the meantime
it was pried loose. He would be glad to comply with the removal of
the balance of the flashing which overlaps down her side of the wall
immediately. In order to improve the aesthetics as viewed from her
side of the common wall, he plans to finish this edge of the
structure with the same 90 degree terra cotta etch tile as consistent
with the entire home. This look will also be consistent with the tile
edged roof of Ms. Pride's home. In reference to the allegations that
he lied to the City when requesting a permit for a gate enclosure,
he pointed out that the terminology "gate enclosure" was chosen by
the permit specialist assisting them at the Building and Safety desk.
At that time, he made a full disclosure as to their ultimate goal. The
cart barn has now been complete for over two years without a
single compliant.
Commissioner Gregory stated that it was clear to him that this was
an unfortunate forum for a neighborly mess. This Commission is
an aesthetic review Commission and so hearing all this information
is something that should be saved for Planning Commission or City
Council. He asked Mr. Toia if that made sense to save time and
aggravation. He understands that there are issues here that go
way beyond the aesthetics, but the Commission's major task is to
look at the aesthetics. Mr. Toia understood, but asked if he could
have a little more time to complete his comments. Commissioner
Gregory approved.
Mr. Toia pointed out that Ms. Pride had constructed a gazebo less
than two feet from their wall and the common wall of the golf
course. When he checked with the City he found that no permits
had been filed. He reminded the Commission that at the previous
meeting he had distributed pictures of many of the properties on
Burroweed Lane that also have their garages built directly on the
property line and as such are consistent with their look and
blending. Of the approximate 30 homes on their cul-de-sac more
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than 70 percent of them have either a zero setback between the
structures or only a single 48-inch setback between the two
adjoining buildings. A double 48-inch setback is clearly not the
standard.
Ms. Debbie Harris-Sherman, Attorney for Ms. Pride, introduced
herself to the Commission. Commissioner Gregory stated that this
was not a courtroom or a public forum where she would be
addressing issues that he thought she would be discussing. He
stated that this Commission was an aesthetic review Commission
only. Ms. Sherman stated that she was aware of the purpose of the
hearing and the purpose of the Commission.
Ms. Sherman stated that she had submitted a written package that
included photos that were taken from Ms. Pride's property on
February 22, 2008 to give them an idea of what the view was from
her yard. She stated that they were not contesting that the
neighbors thought it looked good from the front view. What they
were contesting was the encroachment, the use of common wall to
attach the structure, the drainage issues, and all of the health and
safety code violations and building code violations which need to be
determined and remediated. Aesthetic blending with the
community is only one factor to be considered in the general plan
when making determinations of this type. She understood that
approval or denial is completely discretionary and that the
Commission has the ability to be flexible. She agreed that the
accusations of sabotage and personal grievances in this forum are
inappropriate and that it is something that would be taken up in
court and not something that the City will make a determination on.
They are aware of that and they are not trying to use this forum for
these types of private concerns, but only to express their concerns
in regards to the project that the Commission has before them for
approval right now. She stated that when you have party wall
issues there is difficulty in getting a title policy when a transfer of
property occurs and that is something that they want to be very
careful of. Ms. Pride's property value and the ability to freely
transfer her property should not be taken from her because of a
structure that was built without the benefit of the process. She
indicated that she didn't see where a survey had ever been done of
the property and she thought it would be obviously a threshold
issue to be determined. She stated that there are declarations of
covenants and restrictions recorded against this property from
1969. She has confirmed through a preliminary title report and
discussions with Dave Erwin, City Attorney that the restrictions are
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still in effect. The preliminary title report shows that there are
easements on Ms. Pride's property and assuming on Mr. Toia's
property which are of record but have not been mapped because
these are old easements that far pre-date the city charter and all
done under the county's rules and auspicious. Something that
should be considered in forming their determination is the fact that
the wall and the structure attached to it might make the title
unmarketable when the applicant goes to sell it. If the Commission
decides to approve this structure, they would request that they
attach stringent conditions to this approval. If this wall is not built in
such a way as to be able to withstand the weight of that structure,
we have a big problem since there is only four feet between the
wall and the applicant's bedroom. They are respectfully requesting
that the Commission consider the written documentation, the
photographic evidence, and the oral arguments, and deny the
application for approval.
Commissioner Gregory asked if there was anything bearing on the
wall. Mr. Toia stated that it was an inner wall.
Commissioner Van Vliet stated that he originally objected to it for
numerous reasons. He thought it was too high above the adjacent
wall and he didn't like the way it looked from Ms. Pride's house. He
went out and looked at in detail and felt that it could be rectified and
if it was cleaned up substantially then he would support it. He
made suggestions on what had to be done: slope the roof back
away from the property line so there are no drains that go on to the
neighbors property; do not raise the structure any higher; re-do the
entire flashing making it nice and clean coming straight down
against the wall; no capping over the wall; and not going over the
property line.
Commissioner Vuksic stated that the tile is a significant
enhancement along the edges and suggested that he continue the
tile on the height element. He mentioned that aesthetically it was
acceptable.
Commissioner Gregory stated that Commissioner Lambell came in
after the meeting and listened to the recorded minutes. He asked
for her comments.
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Commissioner Lambell stated that there were four major issues that
she was concerned with: the flashing on the common wall; the
downspout drainpipe; the lighting; height of the common wall; and
the height of the interior wall for the golf cart barn. Mr. Toia has
dwelt with the issues of the lighting and the downspout and she
agreed that the tile across the top is far superior to just the metal
flashing that was there before. Aesthetically it will stand up longer
than anything else. The height of the wall adjacent to the common
wall is an issue that is not the Commission's concern. She stated
that this group was an aesthetic commission and that all they were
caring about is what it looks like and how it looks in the
neighborhood. She mentioned that she drove by to take a look and
stated that Mr. Toia has made a vast improvement to what it was
before. She stated that she will support what has been done and
what will be done according to the conditions.
Commissioner Gregory stated that he hasn't changed his decision
since the prior meeting.
Mr. Bagato stated that a lot of the issues that the attorney has
brought up are issues that will be addressed further. The general
plan issue and health and safety issues are identified in the
variances and the Planning Commission report. He stated that
those issues are not being ignored and that the Commission will
place conditions on Mr. Toia's approval and require a survey
because we need to know what is going on with the wall. However,
this forum doesn't address those issues; Planning Commission and
the City Council will.
Commissioner Vuksic made a motion to approve the project on its
aesthetic merit with the following conditions: sloping roof back
avoiding raising the roof anymore to get that slope; redoing and
cleaning up entire flashing on perimeter of structure, not going over
property line; obtaining a land surveyor for property line location,
and continuing the tile on roof.
Ms. Sherman stated that it was important to bear in mind that the
roofing exceeds the height of the common wall so if the roof is
made higher it will create more of a problem. She requested that
the Commission keep the applicant's rights and property rights
under the City code in mind when approving the request.
Commissioner Gregory stated that this Commission is a subjective
review group, not objective.
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Mr. Toia stated that the common wall is already a foot and a half
over code. The city code is six feet and the wall is already seven
and a half feet. The Commission and the applicant discussed the
code and the grade height of the wall.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Vuksic and seconded by Commissioner
Lambell, to approve the project based on aesthetic merit subject to: 1)
sloping roof back; minimize the raising of the roof to a max of 1 '/z" to get
slope; 2) redoing and cleaning up entire flashing on perimeter of structure;
not going over property line; 3) obtaining land surveyor for property line
location; and, 4) continuing the tile on roof. Motion carried 4-0-0-2, with
Commissioners DeLuna and Hanson absent.
2. CASE NO: SA 08-78
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): KEVIN PARKER/SWAIN SIGN,
INC., 1384 East Fifth Street, Ontario, CA 91764
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Approval of reface
on two existing wall signs, install new three foot fascia on two
existing gas pump canopies, and install four 33-inch circle logo's on
new canopy fascias: 76 Gas Station.
LOCATION: 73-801 Highway 111
ZONE: C-1 SP
Mr. Bagato stated that this was a request to reface two new existing
walls signs and installing a three foot fascia on two existing gas
pump canopies. They initially proposed to replace the pole signs,
but staff informed them that the code states that if you change
something that no longer meets the code they would have to come
down. The applicant has decided not to make any changes to the
poles at this time.
Mr. Swartz stated that they wouldn't be redoing the poles at this
time, so they will not be coming down. He stated that Sign C and D
were fading. One says "Auto Care" and one says "Quality
PROclean Gasolines", but they will reface both of the signs with
"Auto Care". Commissioner Vuksic stated that it was the same
basic sign. Mr. Kevin Parker, representative, indicated that those
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signs would not be changing. They are inset into the wall and they
will slide the old panel out and slide the new one in. Commissioner
Van Vliet asked if they would be illuminated and Mr. Parker
indicated they would be.
Mr. Bagato stated that staff brought this to ARC because the
canopy was changing. The current canopy is pitched and has a
little bit of a design feature and they will be adding a new covering
that looks like the Chevron stations that are boxy and square. The
Commission commented that they like the old canopy better stating
that it looks more elegant and thin and the proposed one looks top
heavy and odd. The Commission discussed the orange color
around the canopy and asked if it would be illuminated. Mr. Parker
indicated that the only thing that would be illuminated is the "76"
logo.
Commissioner Gregory wanted clarification on the pole. Mr. Swartz
stated that the City Attorney informed staff that if the applicant
touched the poles in any way the pole signs would have to come
down because they are legal non-conforming. Commissioner
Gregory commented that if the signage were to become faded over
time or degraded in some way were they allowed to repair it. Mr.
Bagato stated that they would be able to repair the existing, but the
applicant at this time wants to change the color from orange to red.
Mr. Parker asked what the ordinance states on legal non-
conforming signs. He stated that the faces on both of these signs
were not structural and that they weren't doing any mechanical
changes to the sign and that the ball is the plastic face of the sign
and the structure is down the middle of the ball. They would
unhook it from the top and the bottom, the old orange face of the
ball would come off and the new red face of the ball would go over
the top of the structure. It is a little more complicated than just
sliding a face in and out, but it is basically the same thing.
Commissioner Gregory was curious as to how this relates to the
City's acknowledgement of logo rights. If "76" has changed their
logo color from orange to red, wouldn't they have the right to use
their logo?
Mr. Bagato stated that if they wanted to come in with a new
monument sign and have a red logo we wouldn't deny them, but it's
the fact that they have a non-forming sign that they are trying to
modify to the new one. Mr. Parker stated that they weren't
modifying it. Mr. Bagato indicated that our code states that under
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normal repair and maintenance not exceeding 50% of the value,
then the sign can remain; otherwise no sign shall be modified,
altered, moved or replaced. Mr. Parker feels that they meet that
provision because it is not 50% of the value of the sign. Mr. Bagato
said that the code says repair or maintenance and you would
actually be replacing it with a whole new element. Commissioner
Gregory stated that due to an edit passed down we can't deny
someone logo rights. Mr. Bagato stated that that was correct, but
we can regulate the size and how signs are illuminated based on
that regulation. The fact here is that they are trying to modify a
non-conforming sign and not changing to our current standard. We
are not saying that they couldn't have a red sign. Commissioner
Gregory asked if the applicant went with a red ball and non-
illuminated, would they consider that. Mr. Bagato stated that the
City has the authority to regulate how it's illuminated and the size,
but again under the current ordinance non-conforming signs can
only be maintained or repaired.
Commissioner Vuksic stated that boxy canopies are the new
standard with gas stations; however, after reviewing the photos he
said the current canopy looks pleasing with the architecture of the
building and ties in well. It would be a shame to go to all this effort
to create something that is obtrusive and doesn't tie in with that bit
of architecture.
Commissioner Gregory stated that the original design was a
superior design, and asked if the applicant was being penalized for
the original design when every other service station wants big bold
graphics and wants to be seen with a more modern look.
Commissioner Vuksic felt that they can make a statement and get
the bold signage, but it would have to be done in a more artful way
than the standard and in a more "Jetson-like" style similar to the
design of the architecture that is currently there. Mr. Parker stated
that this is a program that they have tried to adapt to gas stations
all over the country when Conoco-Phillips bought 76.
The Commission discussed and reviewed the canopy design.
Commissioner Gregory stated that there has to be some flexibility
on the part of Conoco. Commissioner Vuksic gave a broad brush
suggestion that they need to do something that works better with
the architecture, something that is more streamlined and sort of a
retro modern approach. Commissioner Gregory stated that they
have something very interesting architecturally there now and they
are trying to apply a one size fits all solution to this situation. Mr.
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Parker stated that it is hard for a big corporation to change the
design for every single station. Commissioner Gregory stated that
this Commission was not trying to stop them from getting signage.
Mr. Parker stated that when it comes to national accounts they
cannot make custom signs for every single franchise, it is
impossible so they try to make it work.
Commissioner Van Vliet stated that the Commission has the option
to deny it and then the applicant could appeal it to City Council.
The Commission and the applicant discussed the options.
Commissioner Vuksic suggested that another way they could go
would be to make changes to the building to make it work with the
new canopy.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Vuksic and seconded by Commissioner
Van Vliet, to deny canopies based on the observation that the proposed
canopies are too much of a deviation from the architecture of the existing
building. Motion carried 4-0-0-2, with Commissioners DeLuna and
Hanson absent.
It was moved by Commissioner Vuksic and seconded by Commissioner
Van Vliet to approve the re-facing of the wall signs. Motion carried
4-0-0-2, with Commissioners DeLuna and Hanson absent.
3. CASE NO: SA 08-93
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): OZZIE'S INT'L TIRE & AUTO,
74-894 Lennon Place Suite F-2, Palm Desert, CA 92260
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Final approval of
two monument signs.
LOCATION: 74-894 Lennon Place Suite F-2
ZONE: S.1. SP
Ms. Schrader presented and summarized this project. The
applicant proposes to install two 20 square foot free standing signs,
each with two faces. The proposed signs would be located at the
vehicular entrances of the industrial park complex, which would
allow street identification for four businesses located towards the
rear of the complex where businesses do not have street visibility.
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The proposed signs meet code requirements for size and content.
However, the new signs are currently proposed at 8 feet from the
curb. The existing right of ways for both Lennon Place and Eclectic
Street are 10 feet. The applicant would be required to adjust the
sign placement to a 10 foot distance from the curb. Applicant
proposes to match the color of existing buildings. However,
samples available at the meeting may be slightly darker and greyer
than the buildings. Staff would recommend that the signs more
closely match existing buildings by employing a more beige or
cream base tone.
The Commission discussed the location and setback of the signs.
It was recommended that the sign be placed ten feet from the curb
and to warm up the gray color so that it will match the building more
closely. It was also recommended that he pull the turf away from
the sign and put gravel to avoid damage to the sign. Ms. Diane
Hollinger, Landscape Specialist, will work with the applicant to
assist with the landscape design.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Gregory and seconded by Commissioner
Van Vliet, to grant approval subject to: 1) conforming to setback
requirements; 2) warmer colors to match building; and 3) review of
landscaping plans by Landscape Specialist to assist with pulling turf back
from sign. Motion carried 4-0-0-2, with Commissioners DeLuna and
Hanson absent.
4. CASE NO: SA 08-92
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): BEST SIGNS, INC., 1550 S. Gene
Autry Trail, Palm Springs, CA 92264
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Final appreval of
a sign program for; University Centre Retail Plaza.
LOCATION: 75-048 Gerald Ford Drive
ZONE: PCD FCOZ
Mr. Bagato presented and summarized this project. The
Commission recommended the applicant move a couple of the sign
locations. The "Goodies" sign on the west elevation was too high
and suggested lowering it from the top of parapet to the next
element below.
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Mr. Bagato stated that the "Subway" sign on building A are located
too close to each other and are L-shaped on each the west and
south elevation of the building and asked the applicant to avoid that
L-shaped look because they read as two signs.
Commissioner Vuksic stated that the "Subway" sign on the north
elevation needed to be a little more centered on the beige surface
and suggested sliding it down a bit so that they have equal space
top and bottom. He stated that the west elevation sign appeared
that it was crammed in there. He recommended that the west
elevation sign be deleted or moved down into a different element
off the ivory surface. The sign on south elevation needs to be
shifted down where there is equal distance top and bottom on the
ivory surface and the same with the east elevation.
The Commission reviewed and discussed the tenant signs and the
locations. The applicant stated that the owner had recessed areas
specifically for the tenant signs and felt that they were well
balanced in there. The Commission felt that they were okay.
The Commission reviewed and discussed the monument signage
and the locations. Mr. Jessie Cross, sign representative, stated
that they were about eight to ten months away from the design for
monument signage and stated that it would come back before ARC
and stated that it could be a condition of approval that it come back
for review. The Commission asked Mr. Bagato about the locations.
Mr. Bagato stated that they have one at each driveway point and it
meets code.
Mr. Cross asked if they were entitled to a monument sign for the
restaurant on Gerald Ford for Building B. He stated that they do
have a monument sign for Goodies and the center identification
sign farther down and felt that they could get both. Mr. Bagato
stated that a plaza typically gets a monument sign that identifies
multiple tenants, not just one like at "A". Technically they could
have two "As" or we could give them the restaurant sign in
exchange of another "A". Mr. Cross stated that the owner only
wanted to identify the plaza. Mr. Bagato stated that if the
restaurant was the only tenant being identified on the street it would
be fine.
Commissioner Vuksic made a motion to approve the project with
the changes as previously stated and to approve the location and
nature of the monument signs.
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Ms. Diane Hollinger, Landscape Specialist, asked the applicant to
keep the landscaping in mind in relation to the monument signs.
Commissioner Vuksic stated to the applicant that when the
monument designs come they need to have more specific
information about the locations and the landscape buffers.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Vuksic and seconded by Commissioner
Lambell, to grant approval subject to: 1) lowering the "Goodies" sign on
the west elevation from the top of parapet to the next element below; 2)
avoid "L" shape look on the "Subway" signs for the west and south
elevation; 3) "Subway" sign on the north elevation needs to be a little more
centered on the beige surface sliding it down for equal space top and
bottom; 4) delete west elevation sign or move down into a different
element off the ivory surface; 5) sign on south elevation shift down where
it is equal distance top and bottom on ivory surFace; 6) sign on east
elevation slide down and centered; 7) approval of location and nature of
monument signs; and, 8) submit monument design with specific
information of location of landscape buffers. Motion carried 4-0-0-2, with
Commissioners DeLuna and Hanson absent.
5. CASE NO: MISC 08-87
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): ADRIAN PINSON, P.O. Box 1778,
Cathedral City, CA 92235
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Final approval of
an 18 foot roof height on a single family home.
LOCATION: 72-791 Willow Street
ZONE: PR 18
Mr. Bagato presented and summarized this project.
Commissioner Vuksic asked what the distance was from the roof to
the top of the parapet. Mr. Mark Valentino, Architect, answered
that it was a ten foot plate with a parapet height of 17 feet with an
18 inch truss.
Mr. Bagato informed the applicant that the block walls shown on the
site plan didn't meet the current wall standards. He pointed out that
if a wall was six feet high it would have to be 20 feet from the curb
no matter if it was front or street side because they have two fronts.
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Since this is a new house you have a chance to look at it now. If
they want to go down to five feet it could be fifteen feet from the
curb. He pointed out that it was required that they place pilasters
every 30 feet or move the wall at least eighteen inches for some
undulations and change of plane. Commissioner Vuksic stated that
the sides were low and high in the middle, but the glass looked
pretty high. It looks like a two by six wall with a long piece of glass
in it that will be visible from the street and he felt that that needs a
little more architectural consideration. He suggested that he
resubmit something that is acceptable to staff that would be okay.
Mr. Valentino indicated that he could put some eyebrows around
the corners and radius it.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Vuksic and seconded by Commissioner
Van Vliet, to grant approval subject to the west wall of the master suite be
submitted with some architectural enhancement for staff approval. Motion
carried 4-0-0-2, with Commissioners DeLuna and Hanson absent.
B. Preliminary Plans:
None
C. Miscellaneous Items:
None
VI. ADJOURNMENT
It was moved by Commissioner Lambell, seconded by Commissioner Vuksic to
adjourn the meeting. Motion carried 4-0-0-2, with Commissioners DeLuna and
Hanson absent. The meeting was adjourned at 1:45 p.m.
�—'��
TONY B AT
PRINCIPAL PLANNER
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