HomeMy WebLinkAbout2009-05-26 *Mmoe
�1•�� CITY OF PALM DESERT
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMISSION
MINUTES
May 26, 2009
I. CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 12:30 p.m.
II. ROLL CALL
Commissioners Current Meeting Year to Date
Present Absent Present Absent
Ronald Gregory, Chairman X 9 1
Chris Van Vliet X 9 1
John Vuksic X 10
Karel Lambell X 10
Pam Touschner X 7 3
Allan Levin X 5 1
Vacancy
Also Present
Lauri Aylaian, Director
Tony Bagato, Principal Planner
Kevin Swartz, Assistant Planner
Missy Grisa, Assistant Planner
Diane Hollinger, Landscape Specialist
Hart Ponder, Code Compliance Manager
Janine Judy, Senior Office Assistant
III. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: April 28, 2009. The meeting minutes for May 12,
2009 to be approved at the next meeting.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Vuksic, seconded by Commissioner
Lambell, to approve the April 28, 2009 meeting minutes. Motion carried
4-0-2-0, with Commissioners Levin and Touschner abstaining.
V. CASES:
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A. Final Drawings:
1. CASE NO: SA 09-178
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): SIGN-A-RAMA, 41945
Broadway, Suite L, Palm Desert CA 92211
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Final approval of
monument sign.
LOCATION: 74-710 Highway 111
ZONE: PC-4 NSP
Ms. Grisa presented the project and summarized the staff report.
She stated that this sign has come before ARC twice before but
due to a lack of quorum there was not action. The building is a
Mediterranean style and the sign has somewhat of a contemporary
feel to it. The problem before with this sign was that Public Works
initially wanted them on the north side of the sidewalk and now they
are okay with it being on the south side. There was a ten foot
easement for CVWD which they could not build within, so there is a
small area in between the sidewalk and the easement which they
can build upon. The dimension of the sign is 78 inches and what is
showing on GIS is a little tight so if it is approved I would want the
applicant to bring into staff a hard line drawing showing the
dimensions all the way across from the curb to the sidewalk.
Another thing to consider is that there are two monument signs on
this property which neither one are the applicant's nor the owner's
signs. The Village Court sign on the corner is for all the buildings
north of Village Court and a City of Palm Desert sign. On top of
that there is also a speed limit sign and for lease signs and it is
crowded in there.
Mr. Chad Addington, representative said that the property owner
will have the leasing signs removed. Commissioner Van Vliet
asked if they are allowed a second monument sign in that corner,
referring to the Village Court wall. Mr. Bagato stated that it isn't a
monument sign; it is a wall that has "Village Court" on it.
Commissioner Van Vliet remarked that there seems to be too much
clutter and that the design doesn't fit with the building.
Commissioner Lambell agreed that it was cluttered and stated that
she did a site review in front of Raymond James and counted
seven things in that area. Then as she was exiting onto Highway
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111 there was a very linear bus sign and a huge drunk driver sign.
So there are ten things happening within 100 yards maximum.
Commissioner Levin asked what the rules were for the leasing
signs and would they have to come back through ARC to put them
back up. Ms. Grisa answered no and stated that as long as there is
space for lease they can have the signs up. Commissioner Levin
stated that it is hard to tell by looking at the photograph but felt that
you wouldn't see the monument sign because the lease sign is
blocking it. Ms. Grisa stated that they would most likely remove the
leasing signs. Mr. Addington said that the owner will be removing
the leasing signs because it would block the monument sign. The
owner will place a paper For Lease sign in the windows of the
spaces that are for lease and get rid of the leasing signs with no
leasing signage on the frontage. Mr. Bagato stated that is not
something that is guaranteed. He said that for real estate signs
there are certain dimensions allowed and they have to follow those
rules and regulations. They are not permitted unless they become
an issue or there is a complaint.
Commissioner Gregory stated that he and Commissioner Vuksic
were investors with one of the entities that appears on the sign and
said that they would have to recuse themselves.
Commissioner Touschner noticed that the sign is for three tenants
and asked how many tenants were in the building. Mr. Addington
replied that it is a double-sided sign with a maximum of three
tenants on the sign; with the same tenants on both sides. There
are actually three buildings that are with this monument sign.
Commissioner Touschner felt that if the sign isn't really able to
accommodate everyone why bother because at some point they'll
come back and ask for another sign. Mr. Addington stated that
they are basing this sign on the leased square footage.
Commissioner Touschner was having a hard time figuring out what
the sign does for them and stated that people would be turning in
before they ever see the sign. She wondered if the whole area
needed to be looked at collectively and asked would it better to do
something that is incorporated into that half wall verses having all
these things sprinkled around.
Commissioner Lambell asked if the owner of the building owned the
two Village Court signs. Mr. Addington stated that the owner has
no signage up for the tenants and as far as he knows the owner
does not own those two walls. Mr. Bagato stated that it is a private
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street and it could be owned by the association. The Commission
discussed having one monument sign for everyone in the
development He stated that all the buildings in this location are all
individual parcels and you can't create a monument sign to address
everyone, it would be too cluttered.
Commissioner Lambell asked if there is the potential for one of the
other buildings to request a monument sign. Mr. Bagato stated that
it could happen but the sign code is written in a way that they be
reviewed for architecture and that they are not cluttered.
The Commission discussed the possibility of monuments or
directional signage in other areas in the development.
ACTION:
It was moved by Commissioner Lambell and seconded by Commissioner
Touschner to deny Case SA 09-178. Motion carried 4-0-2-0, with
Commissioners Gregory and Vuksic abstaining
2. CASE NO: GPA 07-02 /C/Z 07-01 / PP 07-09 /CUP 07-10
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): WLC ARCHITECTS, INC., PHUC
TRAN, 10470 Foothill Blvd. Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91730
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Approval of
construction drawings for a new 42,512 square foot Administration
Building; Coachella Valley Water District.
LOCATION: 75-515 Hovley Lane East
ZONE: SI
Mr. Swartz presented the project and stated that the plans were
approved back in February 2008 and ARC wanted to make sure
that the roof top equipment was screened and that the elevator
shaft came to a point.
Mr. Phuc Tran, WLC Architects and the Commission reviewed and
discussed the changes. Commissioner Van Vliet asked how tall the
units were off the deck. Mr. Tran stated that they were about eight
to ten feet. Commissioner Van Vliet asked if they had that much
height in their roof structure and Mr. Tran indicated that they did.
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Commissioner Touschner was confused with the elevation as
shown. It showed something at an angle and something straight,
but when she looks at the roof plan she only sees one element.
She didn't understand the piece that was straight. Mr. Tran and the
Commissioner reviewed and discussed that elevation.
The Commission discussed the height of the roof and the
mechanical screen. Commissioner Touschner stated that the
drawings show eight feet on the elevations and pointed out that if
the top of the units are ten feet then they are two feet over the
screen. Mr. Tran stated that he didn't know the exact unit size and
would need a cut sheet. Commissioner Van Wet agreed and said
that they were in jeopardy of not screening the units.
Commissioner Vuksic asked for cut sheets of the units so they are
sure they are below that height and allow for an eight inch curb.
Commissioner Vuksic and the applicant discussed the roof and
suggested a sloped roof similar to a huge mansard roof at each
end. Commissioner Touschner was concerned because it wasn't
just the units there is also duct work coming out. So the sloped roof
would give it some protection and not sitting out in the sun. Mr.
Tran said that he would check with the mechanic. Commissioner
Vuksic asked him to also verify that the equipment will be below the
ridge.
The Commission discussed whether to approve it and have the
applicant bring changes back for staff's review or to continue.
Commissioner Vuksic stated that the simplest thing to do is to
approve it and bring back the revisions.
Mr. Tran asked if Public Works was ready to go and Mr. Bagato
stated that they could get their grading permit. Mr. Levin asked Mr.
Tran where they were with posting of bonds and the agreement.
Mr. Tran stated that they had the City's response and would have
to work that out. Mr. Bagato asked if they could have the changes
back to ARC within two weeks. The applicants indicated that would
be a good time.
Commissioner Touschner asked how they would get to the roof to
service the equipment. Mr. Tran stated that they would provide a
roof access hatch.
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ACTION:
It was moved by Commissioner Lambell and seconded by Commissioner
Van Vliet to continue Case GPA 07-02 / C/Z 07-01 / PP 07-09 / CUP 07-10
subject to: 1) adjusting roof plan to create mansard roofs at each end of the
large standing seam metal roof form to screen the equipment; and 2)
provide staff with specifications of the equipment they intend to use to
ensure they are screened by the roof structure.. Motion carried 5-0-1-0,
with Commissioner Levin abstaining.
3. CASE NO.: MISC 09-147
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): PREST VUKSIC ARCHITECTS,
44-530 San Pablo Avenue, Suite 200, Palm Desert, CA 92260
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Approval of new
commercial building and landscape; Parcel 8 at the Village at
University Park.
LOCATION: 36-987 Cook Street
ZONE: PCD FCOZ
Ms. Grisa presented the project and stated that Parcel 8 is located
at Village at University Park and is on a half acre parcel. The
building use will serve as a food court consisting of six separate
businesses occupying a total of 8,636 square feet. Along with these
six separate restaurant vendor spaces, the interior spaces of the
building consist of a men's and women's restroom, a janitorial
room, and lockers for the employees. The food court will contain
100 seats within the interior of the building with 81 seats on the
east patio, 8 seats on the south, and 24 seats on the west patio for
a total of 113 outdoor seats. To the north of the building, the area is
mainly planted and no additional seating is located there. She
noted the amount of outdoor seating because the zoning code only
allows for a maximum seating capacity of twelve.
The architectural form of the building illustrates a contemporary
desert modern design with large overhangs and deep recessed
windows providing necessary solar relief in the desert climate. The
stucco, standing seam roof, and stacked stone veneer are
consistent with other building colors and materials selected to
match the entire development. Building height is consistent with the
general overall approval received for this site. Landscape revisions
have been made to meet the Department of Public Works approval
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through the addition of shade trees on the north and south side as
well as moving the trees on the west side out of the small planters
and into the larger planter area that were immediately adjacent.
Staff approves of the design as shown with the approved landscape
revisions.
Commissioner Touschner asked about four spaces on the
drawings. Mr. Vuksic said those were six small restaurant spaces
for the food court. Commissioner Touschner asked about their
signage and would they expect exposure everywhere. Mr. Vuksic
said that the building is set up to be a shell building and if this
concept doesn't work they could potentially divide it up into six
spaces every twenty feet. He pointed out the potential tenants who
would require a sign. Commissioner Touschner said that in
essence they would have six signs on the west and east elevations
and one sign on the north and south. She was concerned that this
building would be nothing but signage; like a billboard.
Commissioner Touschner stated that this is a handsome building
and discussed some issues that she had with an eyebrow and
asked if they really needed it or should it be doing a more. Other
than that, she thought that the other planes are connecting element
to element and that eyebrow is just sitting there on top and not
connecting to anything. They reviewed and discussed the eyebrow
and windows at the top of the building and how they tie into the roof
area. She asked if the HVAC units would be covered by the
parapet. Mr. Vuksic said yes and presented cut sheets for review.
He explained that they have a four foot two inch parapet and the
equipment is three feet tall.
Commissioner Lambell said that this is a beautiful building. She
liked the horizontal members, the way everything intersects, and a
lot of movement to it. Her only concern was the amount of signage.
The Commission and staff discussed the amount and placement of
signage. Mr. Bagato stated that the Commission could condition
them to do a sign program prior to final submittal and stated that
they would not get a monument sign.
Commissioner Lambell stated that she had no problem with
recommending approval of the building; however they need to
submit a sign program.
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ACTION:
It was moved by Commissioner Lambell and seconded by Commissioner
Touschner to grant approval subject to the submittal of a sign program.
Motion carried 5-0-1-0, with Commissioner Vuksic abstaining.
4. CASE NO: SA 09-062
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): COAST SIGN INC., 1500 W.
Embassy Street, Anaheim, CA 92802
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Final approval of
wall and monument signage; Hilton Homewood Suites.
LOCATION: 36-999 Cook Street
ZONE: PCD, FCOZ
Ms. Grisa presented the project and summarized the staff report.
This request consists of three new wall signs and one monument
sign illustrating the text, Homewood Suites Hilton along with their
duck logo. On the north elevation, there are two proposed wall
signs. The lower sign would be located approximately 16 feet
above grade at an eye level, viewable as a guest would be
approaching the front entrance to the hotel. This ten square foot
sign would be non-illuminated in a polished brass finish. On the
same elevation, an illuminated, 45-square foot, white acrylic,
channel letter sign with dark bronze trim cap and returns is located
directly above the entrance at the top of the building approximately
37 feet above grade. A third wall sign is located on the east
elevation with the same white acrylic letter faces and dark bronze
trim cap and returns. This sign is located roughly 37 feet above
grade and is 45 square feet in overall size. At the northwest corner
of the site, a double-sided monument sign is located for further site
identification. The monument sign consists of an internally lit
aluminum face with push through acrylic lettering and logo.
Lettering and logos on the monument sign make up 7.5 square feet
of signage on one side for a total of 15 square feet of monument
signage for both sides.
Sign C, as noted in the plans, is appropriately located on either side
of the entrance. The last Architectural Review Commission (ARC)
action letter noted the placement was fine. In the last review, the
sign was to the west of the entrance door and it has now been
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switched in the current submittal to the east side. Sign A, as noted
in the attached plans, is well above the 20-foot height limit. In the
previous submittal, the sign was located further to the west. It is
now located centered in the building and directly above the
entrance. The ARC action letter recommended reconsidering the
layout of the sign to create a more horizontal sign allowing a
centered placement over the entrance. Although it is centered, it is
still significantly above the height limit. Recreating a horizontal
layout would decrease the height of the sign. Consideration was
given to the color as noted in the action letter, as the sign was
previously teal green in color and is now white. Sign B, located on
the east elevation, was directed to be moved and centered between
the reveals to the north and be positioned no higher than the top of
the adjacent window as shown. Again, color consideration was
given as the previous teal green colored lettering is illustrated now
as white acrylic.
The monument sign was previously designed as a fully illuminated
cabinet with a painted black base. In the current submittal, changes
were made by altering the cabinet face materials, adding a stone
veneer to match the building, and slightly curving the top of the
sign. The ARC action letter stated that the monument sign needed
to reflect the architecture and color of the building, and lit cabinets
were not approvable. Although, a new material was used on the
sign to visually connect it to the building, the design is still lacking a
connection to the architecture of the building and still reads as a
can sign. Staff does not believe the monument sign is approvable
as shown and requests that the Commission continue due to the
need for design revisions.
Commissioner Van Vliet asked about the graphics. The
representative stated that it is intended that the base be flush with the
Coronado stone, and the graphics would protrude out about a half
inch. Commissioner Gregory discussed recessing it from the face of
the stone. The representative stated that a can is a can and it's hard
to make this type of monument sign without it. The entire background
is opaque; it's all aluminum that is painted, so only the graphics can
protrude out about a half inch. The Commission reviewed and
discussed the graphics of the sign. .
Commissioner Touschner stated that on the monument sign there are
little slivers of stone and stated that stone doesn't come in little slivers
and said that the revised drawing had a little more meat to it. She
stated that the building is not symmetrical and asked why they had a
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symmetrical sign, she suggested keeping the can the way it is and
pick one of the little structural stone elements from the building and
mimic that style.
Commissioner Touschner said that Sign B is centered and looks
appropriate; however, she asked if they could reduce the stacking
with Sign A and referred to the monument sign with the little "Hilton"
with the lines to the side. She pointed out that they are not stacked
and asked why they can't use that logo because it is absolutely
stuffed in there and it's not going to look good. The representative
stated that is why they had it more to the right last time, to give it
more breathing room. Commissioner Touschner remarked that the
sign was centered on a window and not the door and with the way it
is presented it is hard to see.
Commissioner Gregory stated that they have to be consistent with the
logo trademark and said that the Commission is trying to have
something that looks better in tough spaces on the building so it
would show better for the Hilton. Mr. Bagato stated that they could
request proof of their trademark.
Commissioner Touschner stated that if they are not going to center
the sign then they have to purposely make it look like it was meant to
not be centered. The representative stated that the original design
intent was to have Sign A further to the right to give it a little more
space above and below and let the sign breathe a little more.
Commissioner Lambell stated that the letters were 15 inches high
and the duck is 24 inches and was above the height limit. The
representative stated that it is three stories in the air. Commissioner
Lambell stated that they are having trouble with signs being up so
high with huge letters.
Commissioner Gregory asked if the sign over the front door were to
have "Homewood" and "Suites" on the same line that would be
appropriate for that particular location. Nothing is being removed
from their logo, it's just being switched around so that it flows with a
different background. They can't use the same configuration in every
location, which is something they are doing and it appears they do
have a couple of different logos that suits their purposes. Mr. Bagato
stated that if they are showing two variations of the signs and you
want it to be similar to the monument sign the Commission can
approve it and let them challenge it. The Commission and staff
discussed the style and logos for the signs.
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Commissioner Lambell asked Mr. John Vuksic, architect if he had a
space envisioned for the sign. Mr. Vuksic stated that the sign was
not included in the design drawings. Commissioner Lambell stated
that she agreed with Commissioner Touschner that the sign needed
to be centered over the door. Commissioner Touschner stated that if
they got "Hilton" down enough it could be in between the two
windows. Commissioner Lambell stated that that was certainly an
option. Commissioner Touschner stated that this is a missed
opportunity and the sign doesn't do the building justice.
Mr. Bagato stated that the representative could send designs to Ms.
Grisa and she could make comments before placing it on the agenda.
The representative stated that if this wasn't approved, Hilton may
take other action. Mr. Bagato asked if they'd rather have a denial and
the representative stated that he hasn't received any direction
requesting a denial and asked that it be continued.
ACTION:
It was moved by Commissioner Touschner and seconded by Commissioner
Van Vliet to continue Case No. SA 09-062 subject to: 1) the stone being a
direct reflection of the stone peers on the building; solid pieces not slivers of
stone; 2) look into possible designs to create an offset between the
monument sign can and stone that are now flush creating more prominent
separate forms; 3) revise Sign A to be centered (on either F or G) over the
entry allowing for adequate space (no less than 18 inches) at the top of the
sign and the building parapet; and 4) Sign A to match Sign C in corporate
logo design to create less clutter and creating a better fit of signage within
the space allowed. Motion carried 5-0-1-0, Commissioner Vuksic abstaining
5. CASE NO: MISC 09-115
APPLICANT (AND ADDRESS): PALM TO PINE CANVAS, 69-640
Sugerloaf Ave, Mountain Center, CA 92561
NATURE OF PROJECT/APPROVAL SOUGHT: Approval of a
revision to signage letter height; Grower's Market.
LOCATION: 73-196 Highway 111
ZONE: CA SP
Ms. Grisa stated that Grower's Market previously received approval
for awnings and signage. The awnings were approved with the
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condition that it hides the HVAC units. The awnings as shown in
the photos have grown since the last time the Commission saw
them to cover the units. The letters on the awnings were approved
at ten inches and the applicant is worried that ten inch letters might
look small on this enlarged awning so they are asking for eighteen
inch letters. There would be one-foot-three above the letters to the
top of the awning and one-foot-three to the bottom portion of the
front of the awning and another six inches for the valance; the
vertical piece that hangs down.
Commissioner Gregory stated that the awning is canted so when
it's tilted back it is perceived as being shorter. Ms. Grisa stated that
the total square footage for the Highway 111 side would be 48
square feet and they are allowed 50, so they are under the allowed
square footage. Commission Touschner asked what kind of
lettering they were using. Mr. Andrew Basmajian, representative
indicated the lettering from his t-shirt and stated that the letters
would be white on the green awning with no border.
Commissioner Van Vliet asked how much taller the awning grew
from the last meeting. Ms. Grisa stated that prior it was three-foot-
six inches plus the six inch valance for a four-foot total and now it is
five-foot. Commissioner Gregory asked if it hid the units from
Highway 111. Ms. Grisa stated that she has not been out there
since they put the awnings up. Commissioner Touschner stated
that the units don't seem that tall and would suspect that it does.
The Commission didn't have a problem with the awning.
The Commission discussed the end caps and wrapping the canvas
around the side. The representative stated that he wasn't sure if
they could add anything there because there is a business next
door and there is a wall that actually goes up about four or five feet
above their roofline. Commissioner Levin said that if their roof
comes up do you not see the brace. Commissioner Lambell stated
that if they can see the knee brace now then it will be visible
traveling east bound on Highway 111. Commissioner Levin stated
to return that end cap farther back. Mr. Basmajian asked if it would
just be wrapping the kicker on the back on either end of the awning.
Commissioner Van Vliet said to just return that end panel further
back and continue it in the same plane.
The Commission discussed the ends of the awning and the back
side of the building. They wanted to make sure that the height of
the awning covers the HVAC units. Commissioner Gregory stated
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that they want to make sure that the ends feel right. He suggested
that someone go out and take a look to make sure that the awning
is hiding those units, as well as the internal components of the back
side.
Commissioner Lambell asked if they could approve the height of
the letters. Commissioner Vuksic stated that the letters were pretty
big; however the only reason that this may be okay is because
there is sort of a super graphic quality to it. Commissioner
Touschner asked if the dimension was broken into thirds. You
don't want it to be a third of this because the letters will disappear.
She agreed with Commissioner Gregory that the letters will be
perceived as smaller than eighteen inches. Mr. Basmajian stated
that he was happy with that and that they wanted to grow from the
12 inches because they knew that 10 inch letters would be way too
small. He also agreed that because of the angle it would be
perceived as smaller. Commissioner Lambell stated that the letters
are bigger than the ten inch that was originally approval.
Commissioner Vuksic made a motion to approve the letters at
sixteen inches high, centered on the canvas surface and that the
Commission is allowed to look at the ends of the awning on site to
render additional remedies to finish the ends. Commissioner
Gregory informed the applicant that he could submit his changes to
Staff.
Mr. Basmajian asked that now that they are allowed to have 50
square feet on Highway 111 would they be able to do a logo since
they are shrinking the size of the lettering from eighteen inches to
sixteen inches. The Commission and the applicant discussed the
logo and the placement on the awning. Commissioner Vuksic
stated that this is a super graphic and to clutter it with other
elements you are going to lose that graphic. Commissioner
Lambell stated that they are down to three signs evenly spaced
over the entire linear length of the awning with no logo. She stated
that a logo would be fine on the window.
Mr. Basmajian stated that on the drawing he believed that it had
one-foot-three above and one-foot-three below and looking at it
vertically it comes out 48 inches vertically but the actual size of the
canvas is 54 inches at an angle, so the 18 inches would actually be
smaller than that. If they are going to go one third-one third-one
third, he thought that it should grow to 18 inches.
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The Commission discussed the number of signage and their
placement. Commissioner Vuksic stated that three signs would
look better than two signs on the Highway 111 side. He stated that
right now it looks a little lost and not finished, you really need three
to pull off that idea. Commissioner Touschner agreed. The
Commission and the applicant discussed the four signs and their
placement on the awning. They suggested that the applicant mock
up the letters on the awning and staff can go out and look at it.
Commissioner Touschner discussed how all four of the signs
should work together as a unit, like rolling out a ribbon and uniform
all the way around.
ACTION:
It was moved by Commissioner Vuksic and seconded by Commissioner
Lambell to grant approval subject to: 1) provide mock-up to possibly
increase signage to three signs on Highway 111 and one sign on San
Marcos; 2); all signs to be equally spaced on awning; 3) letters to be
increased to 16 inches - not to exceed allowable square footage; 4) new
signage drawings to be approved by staff prior to install; 5) allow the
Commission time to review the site in person to offer suggestions on how to
seal ends of bracing elements; plan to be reviewed and approved by staff.
Motion carried 6-0.
B. Preliminary Plans:
None
C. Miscellaneous Items:
Mr. Bagato presented the roof plans for Starwood and the Commission
reviewed the A/C equipment screening. It was determined that two
Commissioners would meet with staff on site for a field inspection.
VI. ADJOURNMENT
It was moved by Commissioner Lambell, seconded by Commissioner Vuksic to
adjourn the meeting. Motion carried 6-0. The meeting was adjourned at 2:35
p.m.
TONY B GA
PRINCIPAL PLANNER
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