HomeMy WebLinkAbout0104 . �"I('v IiTE S
PALM DESERT PLA�JNING CONm1ISSI0N MEETING '
JANUARY 4, 1977
7 PM - CITY HALL COUNCIL CHAP�BERS
I. CALL TO ORDER
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Palm Desert Planning Commission
was called to order by Chairman Wilson at 7:00 p.m. in the Council Cham-
� bers in the Palm Desert City Hall .
II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE - Commissioner Reading
III. ROLL CALL
Present: Commissioner BERKEY
Commissioner KELLY
Commissioner READING
Chai rman !JILSON
Absent: Corrnnissioner MILLS (excused absence)
Also
Present: Paul A. Williams - Director of Environmental Services
Hunter Cook - City Engineer
Stephen Fleshman - Associate Planner
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. MINUTES of the Meeting of December 14, 1976.
A motion of Commissioner Reading, seconded by Commissioner Kelly,
to approve the minutes of December 14, 1976, with corrections as
;�, follows, was unanimously carried.
Page 3, 6th paragraph, change the third sentence to read as follows:
"He further stated that it was not impossible to create a sign
with more than four colors."
Page 5, 8th paragraph, change the last sentence to read as follows:
"He stated that a precedent could be set by the realtors if the
off-site directional signs were allowed and he questioned whether
this matter was adequately handled in Section 25.38-10.05 (Other
Signs)."
Page 8, 8th paragraph, 2nd line, delete the word "additional".
Page 9, 8th paragraph, 2nd line, change "then" to read "them".
Page 11, add the following to the third paragraph from the top:
"There was also a discussion pertaining to the reduction of the
roof pitches. The Commission felt that on the three westerly-
most houses, the roof pitch should be reduced to 3 in 12."
Page 11, 6th paragraph, insert the word "be" between "to" and "ex-
� cused".
V. WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS
None
January 4, 1977 Page One
VI. PUBLIC HEARINGS
Chairman Wilson asked that it be noted for the record that the Commission
had met in a Study Session prior to tonight's meeting for the purpose
of asking questions of staff and to look at the items on the agenda.
Further, he stated that no attempt was made to arrive at any decisions.
Chairman Wilson then expl�ined the Public Hearina procedures to those
present.
A. CASE N0. VARIANCE 05-76 & CUP 11-76, EL PASEO MINI-MALL, �PPLICANT
Request for a Conditional Use Permit to allow a 1,000 square foot
� coffee shop in an existing building in the C-1 Zone District and a
Variance from Section 25.33-7 of the Palm Desert Municipal Code to
allow for a deficiency of twelve (12) parking spaces.
Mr. Williams presented the staff report to the Cormnission. Said
report included a description of the project, staff' s recommenda-
tion for approval , justifications for said approval , and an outline
of the conditions of approval pertaining to the case.
Commissioner Kelly questioned Condition No. 8 which reads as follows:
8. Existing illegally installed signs in the Mini-Mall complex
shall be removed.
Mr. Williams explained the condition to Commissioner Kelly.
Chairman Wilson opened the Public Hearing and asked if the applicant was
present.
SAMUEL CARMEL, 500 North Cahuilla Road, Palm Springs, spoke to the
Commission and stated that he had applied for the Conditional Use
Permit and the Variance due to the requests from tenants and custo-
mers. He also presented a petition to the Commission which was signed
by eleven merchants in the area in favor of the proposed project.
�
Chairman Wilson asked if there was anyone present who wished to speak to
the Comm�ssion in favor of the proposed project.
TOM MEARS, 73-880 E1 Paseo, spoke in favor of the project.
MYRTLE FORREST, 73-880 E1 Paseo, also spoke in favor of the project.
Chairman Wilson then asked if there was anyone present who wished to
o � speak in opposition to the proposed project. Being no one, he then closed
o the Public Hearing on Case No. Variance 05-76 and CUP 11-76 and asked the
W Commission to take the matter under consideration.
�
� Commissioner Kelly stated that in relation to the parking deficiency, she
ti • felt that there was a unique situation involved and that she would be in
� favor of granting the Variance and approving the Conditional Use Permit.
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� �;, Commissioner Berkey agreed that the Variance was warranted.
���
Commissioner Reading stated that he too agreed with the above; however,
he questioned the possibility of food being served on a take-out basis,
Chairman Wilson re-opened the Public Hearing and asked Mr. Carmel to
comment on Corr�nissioner Reading's question.
�""'' Mr. Carmel stated that no take-out would be allowed and that he
was concerned about litter. He further stated that his only intent
was to allow the customers to eat without leaving the area.
Chairman Wilson closed the Public Hearing and questioned staff regarding
the possible addition of a condition pertaining to the take-out situation.
Mr. Williams suggested that Condition No. 11 be added to read as
follows:
11. Said use shall be limited to on-site consumption of food
and beverages.
January 4, 1977 Page Two
' Chairman Wilson and the Commissioners agreed with staff's suggestion
for the addition of Condition No. 11.
Commissioner Kelly moved that the Planning Commission adopt Resolution
No. 205, with the addition of Condition of Approval No. 11. Commissioner
Berkey seconded the motion; motion carried 4-0 (Com��issioner Mills absent).
Chairman Wilson stated that due to the large number of people in the audience
who were interested in the Oral Communication� Section of the Agenda; he would
like to move that section of the agenda up to the present time if it were agree-
� ' able with the rest of the Commissioners. The Commissioners agreed with Chairman
� ilson.
�
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�' g VII. ORAL COP�MUNICATIONS
Q
� � Chairman Wilson asked that a transcript be made of the entire Oral
� Communications section of the agenda. (See attached transcript. )
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� ` VIIT. DESIGN REVIEW BOARD ITEMS
A. Review of Cases approved at the Design Review Board meeting of
December 21, 1977.
Mr. Fleshman presented the following cases to the Commission.
Case No. 39C - Final construction drawings for a 12,500 square
foot commercial building for J & R Enterprises.
Case No. 45C - Preliminary drawings for a new 11,000 square
foot bank building for Bank of America.
The Planning Commission reviewed both of the above cases with staff and
asked that a revision be made to Condition of Approval No. 17 for Case
No. 45C. The revised condition is to read as follows:
17. All existing signs on Lot 1 shall be removed within five (5)
working days of occupancy of the new building, to include
� removal of the structural elements and poles for said signs.
Commissioner Reading moved that the Planning Commission adopt Resolution
No. 206, with the revision to Condition of Approval No. 17 as listed
above. Commissioner Kelly seconded the motion; motion carried 4-0
(Commissioner Mills absent).
Mr. Williams presented a letter to the Commission from CHARLES MARTIN,
withdrawing his request for approval of preliminary drawings for a
remodel of an existing hotel (Case No. 44C).
Mr. Williams also explained that the Design Review Board had reviewed
three other cases at their meeting of December 21st. They were Cases
No. 21SA for R & R, INC. ; 20SA for SITYTOWN PIZZA; and 198SF which was
an appeal of a staff decision regarding fencing. P�r. Williams then
explained that the DRB had rejected the three above cases.
IX. OLD BUSINESS
None
X. NEW BUSINESS
�....
A. DISCUSSION OF PLANNING SCHEDULE
Mr. Williams presented the Planning Schedule and discussed the
fact that the Redevelopment Consultant was in the process of
revising his schedule and that some changes would be made to
the Planning Schedule. He also mentioned that the Planning Com-
mission meeting which was scheduled for February 1, 1977, should
be moved to a different date due to a conflict with the Planning
Commissioners' Institute which is to be held in Los Angeles.
By unanimous action, the regularly scheduled meeting for February
1, 1977, was re-scheduled for January 25, 1977.
January 4, 1977 Page Three
� B. DISCUSSION OF URBAN AESTHETICS REPORT
Mr. Williams presented the above report to the Cor�nission. There
was a brief discussion pertaining to various elements of the docu-
ment.
C. POTENTIAL JOINT PLANNING COMMISSION/CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION
IN JANUARY
There was a brief discussion pertaining to this matter. The Plan-
ning Commission felt that a joint meeting should occur after the
February Planning Commissioners' Institute in Los Angeles.
The Commiss'ione�rs tentatively agreed upon February 9th or Febru-
� ary 23rd as the date for the joint meeting.
D. DISCUSSION OF ARTICLE, "THE GROWTH SHAPERS".
Mr. Williams presented the art�cle to the Commission and informed
them that this article was part of the agenda for the Planning
Commissioners' Institute in Los Angeles.
There was a brief discussion about the article.
XI. CONNIENTS
A. City Staff
None
B. City Attorney
None
C. Planning Commissioners
Commissioner Berkey requested that the staff look into the possibility
� of exchanging Planning Commission minutes with other cities in the
Valley in order to get insight into some of the procedures and the
decision-making process that goes on in other cities.
Commissioner Berkey also suggested that a tentative agenda with maps
be given to the Commissioners at the time legal notices were mailed
out.
Mr. Williams agreed and said that this would be taken care of.
XII. ADJOURPJMENT
Commissioner Reading moved to adjourn the meeting. Commissioner Berkey
seconded the motion and the meeting was adjourned at 10:10 p.m.
�„��... _.,
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PAUL A. WILLIAMS, SECRETARY
ATTEST:
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S. Y LSON HA
P QESERT LANNING COMMIS N
January 4, 1977 Page Four
TRANSCRIPT
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
JANUARY 4, 1977
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS SECTION OF THE AGENDA
My name is Henry B. Clark, 73-183 Willowo I'm here and I know a number of other
people are here for somewhat similar reasons. I would lil;e to talk about the
basic concept of Ordinance 126. I know some of the other people here have feel-
ings that it has been worked to the detriment of the community. I'd like to start
off by saying that Ordinance 126 I have re-read as recently as today. I thought
""� at the time that I saw it in formation after I got out of office that it was a
good Ordinance and I think it is a good Ordinance today. I 'd like to point out
a couple of things in it as to why I think it is a good Ordinance so I think
everybody in the room can start from the same benchmark.
On 27(2) , in the Ordinance, it states that particular attention shall be given in
the design to the protection of views from adjoining property across the area to
be graded. I think that' s an excellent restriction. It goes on that if in the
opinion of the City Engineer, views will be substantially damaged by the proposed
grading, he shall refer the proposed grading plan to the Design Review Board for
a conceptual approval and no permit shall be issued until conceptual approval is
obtained. The only possible weakness I see in that is that it leaves it solely
in the hands of one man; but as long as we have a capable City Engineer, I don 't
think we have to worry. It goes on in the same section - "Except as herein pro-
vided, all work in connection with an alteration shall be done in accordance with
the latest revised standards of the City of Palm Desert. Such drawings, specifi-
cations, and general conditions are on file in the offices of the City Clerk and
shall be kept for public distribution," etc, etc, etc. The Ordinance, and here
I have a question because the Ordinance was approved dated June lOth. I received
today one of the drawings which shows that lots have to be graded so that the
water flow is toward the street. This map is dated October, 1976, which indicated
to me that at the time the Ordinance was passed, it was not one of the drawings
and conditions that it says are on file, which indicated that some of us who were
keeping up with it were not familiar with a new drawing and I wonder if all mem-
'�"' bers of the Commission and Council were aware of it.
Then we have one other, on 27(5) , Page 2, 03.01, a vicinity sketch or other data
adequately indicating the sight location must be filed. That's obvious. .03.03
a contour map showing the present contours of the land and I insert "to be graded"
will be filed. It doesn't say that it should also show the change in grading from
the adjoining property. However, in .03.04, location of any buildings or structures
within the land alteration boundar�es and the location of any building or structure
on adjacent property which is 15 feet of the land alteration boundary must be shown.
Now, that's fine if the neighbor's house is within 15 feet of the boundary; but in
my own house I 'm more than 16 feet on one side and 20 on another so rr�y house eleva-
tion would not be shown. That's the only weakness that I've seen in it.
Now, what has happened, of course, is that as the City Engineer and, I assume, the
Design Review Board has approved these new elevations showing water running to the
street; it has raised the elevation of property as much as half again as high as
the adjoining house. This means that when the house is finally completed, the roof-
line will be considerably above the roofline of the adjoining house and in my esti-
mation, the view that I referred to earlier in the Ordinance will be seriously er-
roded. I suspect that the reasons for building a lot up so high that it will push
water onto the street are good. But I would like to submit to the Engineer and the
Commission that there are a nunber of alternatives which aren't as drastic, probably
not as expensive, will not affect views, and most importantly, worked during the
floods that we had in Septembero
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You've all seen houses that had a wall along their front line and water came and
was diverted by that wall and channeled onto the water-bearing street where it was
supposed to remain. You've seen that the only breach in those walls were where
either the driveway went through or a golf cart gate was open or a walkwaya Now,
some of the people were strong enough, alert enough, and were fortunate to have a
piece of half-inch plywood and when they saw the water starting to go through those
openings, they were able to put them across there supported by the wall on either
side and the water was in truth diverted and went on down the street. Obviously
a driveway is too wide for anyone to get a piece of plywood and get it across in
a hurry; but the houses that had driveways on the low side of the street and were
adequately bermed, in other words they had a bump that you go over, if that bump
was more than a token bump, it too diverted the water and kept it on the street.
So, what I'm suggesting for your consideration and the Engineer's consideration
is that we make sure that adequate thought is given when an elevated pad is authorized
� or demanded that the City's staff has I'd go so far as to say consulted the neighbors,
either by sending a letter with an elevation drawing or asking them to come in and
have it explained. I submit too that there are at least three alternatives, a wall
which has been proved practical and feasible in the floods, a berm - there's a num-
ber of berms on Desert Lily that effectively worked. There's a brand new house,
Dr. Williams, where he had a high berm where it effectively worked. So there are
at least three alternatives and to the Engineer, others can be thought up and I am
sure they will work. So, I feel that we have a good Ordinance. I feel that the
drawing that was submitted in October showing water running to the street slipped
by me and I suspect slipped by others so that I would hope that this Commission and
I'm going to ask the Council the same thing; to review the situation with staff and
hoepfully come up with something less drastic than bringing in 500 to 1,000 yards of
dirt and raising an elevation on the back of the lots four to five to six feet as
I suspect they are effectively doing away with the privacy that the neighbor down-
stream from them formerly had. Thank you.
My name is Walter J. Currey. I live at 73-706 Shadow Lane, off Grapevine. I 'm a
member of the Board of Directors of Mountain Shadows, a condominium development of
16 units. I concur with Mr. Clark and his comments and I would point out that my
particular building which backs onto the Dunham project on Grapevine, at the present
� time the third terrace down which comes down from I don't remember the number of the
house, but the present house which is west of Mountain Shadows. The terrace outside
my unit is now about four feet above, that is the terrace level is about four feet
above my ground floor level which means that my view is completely cut off and also
there is a danger of �ater coming downo Now, I want to go back to - I witnessed
the flood of Septem6er lOth and 23rd. I was there at the time and the way Grapevine
is constructed; all of the water flows from south to north on the north side of the
street. I think that the street is incorrectly built but that's beside the point.
The fact remains that with the raising of the pads to the west of us in the Dunham
project, all of the water is intended to flow to the street. If it does flow to
the street; it's gonna come down and it's gonna jump the curbing which is about
this high (demonstrated height) and go in through our project which in the last
flood cost us over $10,000 damage in our particular unit; to the common area alone
to say nothing of the individual damage to the condominiums in our project. There
is no way that Grapevine is going to be able to take that flow of water in a serious
flood situation and it's gonna come down between our two buildings as it did on
September lOth and 23rd and wash through our entire project; through the swimming
pool which had 8 or 9 feet of mud in it and on down to the golf course. The solu-
tion that the City Engineer is proposing certainly may protect those particular
houses which he is talking about. It's gonna take away the view from ours and
other units along there; but the fact remains that it's gonna cause us considerably
more damage by that water going down through. That's all I have to say. Thank you.
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• ..�
My name is Mary Hutchinson and I live at 73-421 Joshua Tree and our home is located
directly behind the house that is being graded. A lot is being graded right now
for a home and the grade level according to the City personnel is 10 feet above the
center of the street. This in effect makes the back of the property about six feet
higher than rr�y property line and it is going to take away our view and on top of that,
they are building a tennis court which could be a potential water trap and fill for
water to go through; plus the noise and nuisance factor and we would like to have
you review this. We feel that if the water runs to the street as the City proposed;
there's no where for it to go except to the property that is already developed in
the area or a vacant lot. So, wha�t's gonna happen to the 50% of us that are already
there.
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My name is Lawrence G. Prey, 73-385 Joshua Tree Street and rr�y wife and I are next
door neighbors to the Hutchinsons and I can verify everything that Mary Hutchinson
has just said concerning the effect to her property and the effect that it will have
on other properties such as ours. I wrote a note of protest to the City Hall the
other day. We protest building diagonally back of our home on such a high pad as
to impair our view and overshadow the adjacent homes. It is on Juniper Street at
the address given here. I received a reply signed by James L. Hill , Director of
Building and Safety, City of Palm Desert - Complaint investigated, structure to be
located at 73-450 Juniper. Contractor, Brock Olson, has followed directions of
Ordinance 126 involving grading and drainage to the street. The Pad is approxi-
mately 12" above centerline of street and meets conditions of Ordinance 126.
This is certainly a definite statement; but I believe that in view of what has been
said and in view of these extremely high pads, in fact we have a wall and we look
over to this property and we see this pad above our wall . Where's the house gonna
be? We'll have no view whatsoever and it's going to do very serious damage to most
of the homes in our area. Thank you.
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My name is Mrs. Leonard Scannel. I live at 73-610 Grapevine in Palm Desert. I have
already approached City Hall . We are two isolated houses. My neighbor, Mrs. Wainrust,
and �r�yself are the first of a project that Mr. Curt Dunham is building. At no time
after this Ordinance changed in June were we advised prior to closing escrow that
this would be altered. The original plan was that the houses would all be on the
same level . I have pictures of before the flood, during the flood, after the second
rain, and recently. I went to City Hall when that wall of dirt was six foot above
me. Now, prior to it being six feet above me when it was leveled as it was, we suf-
fered severe damage twice to our pool . It was completely gone. There was no pool .
Everything was wiped away. The front coming into the garage and into our front door
was protected because we have a, whatever it is called, bump to go down into the
garage and I had insisted on a wall for privacy that blocked water from coming to
badly into the house. However, the damage was caused as I say when the land was
level and Mr. Dunham had four mounds of dirt at the far west end of where he's
developing this property and when the water came down from the dam it hit these
mounds of dirt and diverted into our pool area twiceo Now, I came to City Hall
about this and within two weeks that mound of dirt has grown to ten feet in height.
There is a cement block wall as I look out of my kitchen window where I observed
all of this and took pictures. The cement block is now right up against my cement
block wall , higher than it obscuring my wrought iron either to its limit, its limit
now, and I assume something is going above it. I have no view out of my kitchen
window and still I am concerned and particularly with these last rains with that
dirt still piled and nothing has been done about it. I will have worse damage than
I ever had if we got anything comparable to what we had before. Of course, the
""""' flood in drainage problem in our house was a substandard and did not exist. I have
a letter from a Mr. Joseph Schafray who inspected it and is an engineer, saying that
there is no drainage. This was permitted to pass so it has not been corrected yet
and I'm concerned about that. Among other things, I'm really concerned that some-
one who has supported this community for over twenty years, 12 months a year, has
so little ear from City Hall when developers who are coming here who don't even live
in Palm Desert; who are residents of Rancho Mirage and my visit at City Hall was
treated as one woman complaining about a pile of dirt that a neighbor had placed
next to her property. It was never stated that it was a developer who is not a
resident of this community. It never stated that there were 8 people present and
I would like somebody to review this because I don't intend to stop here. Our house
has devaluated at least 50%. We are down in a basement now, the two of us, and all
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of these houses are going to be raised above us. Outside of the view, it's still
dangerous. Thank you very much.
Ben Hutchinson, 73-421 Joshua Tree. Like Hank Clark says, I think that the Ordinance
, basically is a good one. I would certainly like the same ordinance as a pharmacist.
You go to the doctor, the doctor says you're here. You have to take all the pills
in the pharmacy; not just one prescription but all of them. That way you're well .
So I think probably it is a case where each individual property should be considered
individually. This pile of dirt behind me. I look and watch those guys floating
� around up there and it's just unbelievablea I'm now told that they can put also on
top of the five foot fence another fence. So, in effect, we would be living in a
tenement section and of course they would be looking not only into our back yard
but into our living room and our bedroom. So, it seems that there could be other
alternatives. Hank Clark had mentioned other alternatives - berm walls, maybe drain-
age pipes to the other street below. But if you have a 5% drainage, 5% grade between
Juniper and Joshua Tree, you're talking about a 14-15 foot drop and if you're going
above the other street on the high side, you've not only created a view factor loss
but you've also created a hugh hole for the other house to sit. Now, this particular
house that Charles or Brock Olson is building also has a tennis court which he called
a sunken tennis court. I have never seen a sunken tennis court above ground level .
So, you have on one side of the lot this huge pyramid and right beside it this huge
drainage ditch which the tennis court literally creates and that's exactly where that
water comes when the flood waters come. By the grace of God it just took a turn,
but not its channeling right for our house which will be in a hole; so we pray there
won't be no more floods but how is he going to take care of the existing water that
falls on that lot. No way, in that tennis court. Also, there is a total of three
levels. So, the level where the swimming pool and jacuzzi sit; there has to be a
drainage for that. It isn't properly taken care of. The level where the tennis
court is; they're building a retaining wall around it and I do not believe that that
will take care of a good desert rainfall . I'm not satisfied with that. So, I think
probably in this Ordinance 126 maybe something should be written into it where that
not only each side be considered but the neighbors around it be informed as to what
` is happening or going to happen; if a permit is allowedo It reminds me of a case
'�'r" in another city we lived in where some one was going to build a tennis court and all
the neighbors, all of us, got notification because of the light and the sound factor
and, o� course, this huge fence that would be unsightly before the permit was issued.
Now I don't know if anyone else had notification but I did not have notification as
to the noise factor, the light factor, the unsightliness of the fence. I 'm young
enough that I ' d like to play tennis; but I do like to sleep in the morning sometime.
But it seemed to me that there ought to be a reivew of this Ordinance and I would
like also a review of that particular piece of property that is being built on
Juniper behind rr�y residence.
Now there may be other alternatives to get that pyramid of dirt down. Now, one of
the Council members I had talked to said the reason they passed this Ordinance was
to comply with a State Ordinance and someone else told me that it was adopted as a
part of the National Unified Code or Ordinances; but I think that why is it all of
a sudden now? Why is it all of a sudden now, when Palm Desert has been built ac-
cording to the natural grade. Now, all of a sudden - wham - we're building above
the grade and we're doing it out of respect for those people who are already here;
who have paid their taxes for the last 25 years or the house has been productive
in paying these taxes. They have formed a City and they have even elected a City
Council and as one City Council member told me - Well , after all 50% of the lots
� in Palm Desert have not been developed< Well , that's fine and dandy but in the
existing area there are not 50% already developed. There are not 50% in my neighbor-
hood already developed. Maybe out in the "boonies" there it's 50% not developed
but to us 50% who have been paying those taxes, or our predecessors who have been
� developing this City. That's what I think we should turn to; not to the guy that's
coming in or to the developer who is going to put a house upo Take his cash and
leave that pyramid with the ditch alongside of ito So I think maybe it would be
nice to review not only my particular piece of property that I am concerned with
behind me; but also review this Ordinance 126 as to considering that individual
piece of property and the property owners around it and also submitting to the
property owners who it will affect; the fact that somebody has taken a permit out,
to go down and take a look at it and let's see if you've got any gripes and moans
there, maybe something that we missed. Thank you.
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My name is Darrell Engels and I live at 73-700 what we call Shadow Lane, sometimes
called Grapevine. I happen to be on the Board of Directors of the Shadow Mountain
Association. I 'm Chairman of the Board. We have 4 condominiums at the west end
of our property. When they were grading that lot behind them at the west end,
they've got that thing built up to the point that when they run water over it to
settle the dirt, it was already into the back yard of those 4 condominiums. We
are presently at least 4 or 5 feet higher than our floor plans on those 4 condo-
miniums that are back there. It's gonna not only shut their view out but it's just
ridiculous the way they're stepping everything up on that street, It's destroying
all the property, Ruskins, and the other one that was talking here. It's ridiculous
the way they're, nobody's gonna pay 80 or 100 thousand dollars for a pyramid, or a
house built on top of a pyramid when every other house is down lower. One condo-
minium setup unfortunately was built before Grapevine was put through and when they
put that through, they raised the street; so there's a lot of our property that's
� lower than the street level . This water is gonna come down in every place where
there's a driveway. It's gonna jump the curb and go right in. We're just gonna be
a disaster area; particularly with Marrakesh on the other side of us that has all
the streets funneled with curbs on them down right to the back of our property and
every time it rains, we get a very strong rain, all the water runs down those streets
toward your Grapevine and it has to make a complete right hand turn to stay in that
property and it won't do it. It's washed out in the street every time we've had a
big flood and this is the whole thing is gonna be complicated by running everything
down toward us. Besides that, they're just gonna completely destroy the value of
that property on Shadow Lane and Gradevine and I think that low drain that we have
right there at the entrance to our condominium parking place was originally the dead
end of Shadow Lane and I think that that property probably belonged to the County.
Now that you've got a street built there and they got about a 30 foot little segment
there that you can't do anything with and everytime it rains that water comes down
there and it runs into our parking lot. We carry the dirt into our parking lot.
We've tried to build it up and put flowers in there. We had white rock put in the
thing. Everything is gone. Now, I 've got big boulders our there - beautiful - but
I think that that's County property not ours and I think there should be well , what
do you call it, an elevated place put in there with curbing on either side of it
cause when they curb that street we didn't pay for it along Grapevine; but they stopped
and left this stretch here. It's an eyesore to the whole street along with what they're
doing up above where they're grading.
�..
My name is Leonard Scannell and I live at 76-310 Grapevine here in Palm Desert. I 'm
very concerned, first of all , with the treatment that was meeted out when we met before
the Mayor and his Council ; wherein the City Manac�er brought forward the fact that we
realized after many, many years that errors are being committed with allowing property
to be built below street level and that the said directions have to be made and at
great sacrifice and our home, in back of Mrs. Ben Ruskins, is a sacrifice probably
in the neighborhood of $300,000. Now, the zoning that has been changed as far as
affecting something in the way of flood control , first of all , is neglecting the
basic feature that is a concern of each and everyone of us. Mainly, that there is no
drainage, no drainage existing. They've never made an allowance. They've never made
arrangements for drainage other then putting up the curbing which is not the answer.
Now, as far as the water coming down, the water comes from the entire west all the way
to our door and at our door there's a wall that goes up, I would say, probably in the
neighborhood of 8 foot. The wall does not go to the street. There's a break in that
wall of I would say probably in the neighborhood of 8, 10, possibly 12 foot; so if the
water will never get to the street because the wall has just been prepared to protect
us and get it to the street. There's never been, and some part of the planning here
has been neglected, and I consider the area and the neighborhood and the managers here
very derelict and i feel that a very, very grave injustice has been done to ourselves.
First of all , that we weren 't considered, even informed, because had we been informed,
that this is the situation that is going to come to pass; there's no way it would be
a breach of intelligence to think that we were gonna build below street level and put
'�""' in an investment where right now we have in the neighborhood of $170,000 in our home,
a custom built home. There's no such thing as custom. There's no way that any family
can be in there. Any potential buyers, we've had the sign up before the floods came
along again not knowing that; but here is the situation. There's no way you can get
$55,000 of $50,000 for that home right now and there's some way that we have to be
reimbursed. I don't know what it's going to be but we are going to go as far as we
have to go to get at it because I feel that, first of all , I don't know how many of
you are familiar with or have made a uisit to the area. We come down as we say and
we protested to City Hall before any of this was started and we didn 't seem to get
much of an answer. Despite that protest, this situation was allowed to come to pass.
There's no drainage existing at our home and yet it was passed. We had Mr. Hill up
there and he said, "We11 , I went around with the builder and showed him just what
he had to do.". I said, I don't fault you for that. You probably did; but now my
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" question is that after you told him what he had to do did you ever follow up and
see whether or not that he complied to the regulations; which regulations the con-
tractor has never complied with to this very day and yet there's no step made as
far as City Hall . The water's gonna flow down Grapevine, It's coming all the
way from the west. It's gonna come down and hit the two homes where we are. That's
ar far as it can go and once it gets over there, it's gotta come into that area and
then it's gonna, as I say, from there on in from the Ruskin home down to the Shadow
Mountain homes as another elevation but for the water to get down it's gotta hit these
two areas and from there on we don't know what's gonna happen. But, we're in bad
shape even in slight rains; such as we had the past two evenings as far as runoff
problems. We have experienced difficulty again. We have experienced damage again and
we're looking for some way out and we can't get an answer from City Hall . Now, that's
the bad thing and as they've pointed out, we've paid the taxes for years and lived
in the neighborhood for years and yet, what return? We're allowing this man to come
`'" on in and I won 't go too far there because we feel that, first of all , we've been
ripped off very, very much so, not entirely by the contractor but also as far as the
City is concerneda Thank you very much.
tv�iNUTES AN���+��D
.
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! My name is Wa te�r S eider. I live at 73-840 Whitestone Lane. All of us are con-
` cerned with flood damage. We've lived through the flood and worked our way out of
it, partially out of it, and are extremely interested in the program of preventing
floods and doing that in our City which will help. I believe your Ordinance is
good. I believe that we need some sort of flood control which will funnel the water
to the proper area but to pass an Ordinance and to create a condition that is detri-
mental to our City and to our people is basically wrong. Firstly, if we do divert
all the water to the streets, the streets are not adequate to handle it. We have
no flood control system within our streets to handle the water, if we dump it on
there. This, therefore, makes your very premise erronious. Then if we, I have,
lived in many cities where if we changed the terrain of your lot to the lot next
to you over one to one and one half feet, you must therefore get a permit to do
this. I feel that if we are going to create a situation with this Ordinance wherein
we change the terrain higher than a foot and a half each time, that we should create
special consideration on both the people on each side and the Planning Commission or
the City Building Inspector should inspect that area to determine the damage that
'� it is creating. I don't believe that as a member of this City I want to be a part
of damaging this City and the people in it and that is what we're doing. Thank you.
MINUTES AMEND�D
� ��,�f�7? ��
,
Lawrence Prey, 73-385 Joshua Tree. I think this matter is urgent enough so that
a stop if possible should be made to the buildings in that area just starting in
the places: which have been specified and other places too and I 'd like to recommend
that to this Board.
Chairman Wilson: "Thank you. Is there anyone else present who would like to address
the Commission? If not, I think we need to discuss this very serious problem that
has been brought to us this evening. We have a dilemna here between two very impor-
tant items or concerns of the City. One is proper drainage and the other is protec-
tion of the natural sites and views of the neighborhood and protection of one proper-
ty owner from runoff from anothero I think we've heard quite a thorough presentation
on this. What do my fellow Commissioners feel an appropriate direction might be to
take. I might point out to the people that have spoken that the Commission which did
� recommend the passage of Ordinance 126 to the City Council ; did it on a recomnendation,
it was a recommendation. Any correction of this properly belongs with the legislative
body - the City Council. Although we are concerned with the situation because as
Mayor Clark indicated, the intent of the Ordinance, as I think everyone who reviewed
it, saw it was to protect both the line of sights and to protect the views as well as
make adequate provision for runoff and drainage which apparently it is not doing
total ly.��
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Commissioner Reading: "I can certainly sympathize with each and every one of you
' out there as I was completely wiped out. I would suggest that if there are inade-
quacies in the Ordinance, we have staff review it and bring it back and try to make
this thing as equitable for everybody concerned."
Chariman Wilson: "Thank you. Commissioner Berkey."
Commissioner Berkey: "I've looked at all of these examples that have been mentioned
tonight and I 'm very much concerned with what it's doing not only presently but poten-
tially. If the City continues to follow the example of what's been created to date,
the whole south side area that we're concerned with here will be a mess. Many views
will be ruined. The drainage and flooding problems will be compounded. I think it's
very serious and that staff should immediately report to the Commission and to the
Council any suggestions that will correct these sort of situations that are being
created in many places."
�
Chairman Wilson: "Thank you. Commissioner Kelly."
Commissioner Kelly: "I'd just like to say that I agree with what Comnissioner
Reading suggested and also with what Commissioner Berkey has stated. I too have
been deeply concerned with what is happening and I sympathize with all of you here
in the audience. I see the problem. I feel the unique situation we've had - the
flood and we're suffering from it and we have many problems from it and we're trying
to correct it and the problems arising from it; so I 'd like to see some staff input
on this. At this point I couldn't suggest what to do legally but I would like to
see something done. I don't know about halting construction right now. I don't
know, maybe staff can give us some input on that, because if a situation is to be
corrected in the middle of construction} I 'd hate to see that happen."
Chairman Wilson: "I believe, of course the City Council would be the only Agency
that could put such a moratorium or stop on building and I believe this is an urgent
concern and should be taken to the City Council at their very next meeting. I think
some of the suggestions that were aired this evening - several people, starting with
Mayor Clark - that some kind of provision be built into Ordinance 126 that would allow
for consultation with adjoining neighbors to get some kind of agreements and some kind
of input as to the impact these people might see on the effect of the particular pad
elevation next door, behind or to the side of the property. Probably, I'd like to
suggest that the staff immediately put top priority on this item, take the transcript
from this meeting and the input that we've heard from all these people this evening,
�' make it as thorough and as verbatim as possible and forward it to the City Council
immediately with what I think is the concern, if I read the Commission correctly,
with our concern that some kind of action be taken as quickly as possible to alleviate
this problem and put a stop to the problem. I also feel that the Commission, because
we are equally concerned with not only drainage but also line-of-sight protections and
what have you, that we be kept advised as to the progress that's being made on this,
the recommendations that are being made to the City Council . Is that agreeable with
the Commissioners? Would that take a minute motion or just a suggestion to staff?
A minute motion might be in order, if anyone would care to make it or are there some
other alternatives that some of the Commissioners might suggest? "
Commissioner Berkey: "I think it's appropriate that the staff take a hard look at this
as to the alternatives, as to possible revisions to Ordinance 126 and as to what can
be done with regard to anything that is now in process or under consideration. I would
move that the staff be directed to give highest priority to the matter and to make im-
mediate recommendations to the City Council ."
Corr�nissioner Kelly: "Second."
Chariman Wilson: A motion by Comnissioner Berkey, seconded by Commissioner Kelly, that
this item be given'Itop priority by the City staff and that a rpoert be prepared and
presented to the Council and the Commission as quickly as possible. I assume by that
at the next meeting which would be the meeting of the City Council . Mayor Cl�rk, would
you like to make some further comments, please?"
�' �ienry B. Clark, 73-183 Willow. A number of people here as you've heard have been
terrifically upset about the specifics as it affects their own property. I can't
speak for them but I've heard other people in town say that they're going to the ex-
pense of getting a lawyer and trying to get an injunction against these pads that are
already being prepared for buildingo Fortunately, from my inspection, neither of the
pads that were talked about today have any forms or concrete or underground piping in
them, as near as I could tell . I would hope that the people here and all of us could
get some expression from staff as to whether, short of an injunction, there is any hope
for going back on this approval of the pads that the staff has already approved and
getting cooperation. I realize it would take cooperation from the builders; but they
both have built in this town, they seem to be reasonable people; so I think it would
be fair if this Commission would ask staff to give direction to the people here and
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,
I will see it gets to other people. Thank youa"
Chairman Wilson: "I 'd like to refer that question to Mr. Williams. Mr. Willi��ms
would you respond to that possibility?"
Mr. Williams: "Former Mayor Clark may remember with the 0'Malley building down
on San Pablo, a building permit is the right to construct and as long as the con-
ditions of the building permit are met, there is really no way to revoke that per-
mit. As I understand the situation, I 'm really not involved other than talking to
Mrs. Hutchinson and other people coming in inquiring about what was going on. These
two developers are apparently attempting to comply to all the requirements of the
City including Ordinance 126 which was duly adopted by the City. I think it would
take an interpretation by an attorney to say any different on it because the issuance
"'�' of a building permit is a contract between the guy that's building and the City where
on the City's part it says you shall construct under these standards and the c�mmittment
by the builder to agree to construct under those standardso That committment is made
and met by both parties and there's no way to stop it from happening in my opinion.
That's the experience we had with the 0'Malley building as Mrs. Scannell will well
remember that experience."
Chariman Wilson: "Does the Commission have any questions or any response to that
interpretation? I'm wondering if it would be appropriate for the staff to make
contact as of tomorrow morning with the City Attorney to explore this and to explore
the alternatives. I think that was the intent of Commissioner Berkey's minute motion
that we have before us at the moment and that is to do something to solve this, for the
staff to investigate ways to solve this problem and the solution may need to iriclude
ways to reverse what has been done up to this point as far as pad elevations, etc.
So, you have in front of you a motion. I believe and hope by that, Mayor ClarE;'s
concern that at least the staff be directed to explore this and to explore all alter-
natives. The next meeting of the Council is January 13th, which is a week from Thurs-
day night. All right, is there any further discussion on the minute motion th�►t is
before us? If not, all those in favor of the motion signify by saying aye."
Commissioner Berkey: "Aye"
Commissioner Kelly" "Aye"
Commissioner Reading: "Aye
Chairman Wilsons "Aye"
�
Chariman Wilson: "Opposed? Motion unanimously carried and I'd like to thank those of
you present for bring this concern to our attention. We would hope that the pr�oper
solutions can be worked out."
�,.�►
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