HomeMy WebLinkAbout0521 MINUTES
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
TUESDAY - MAY 21, 1991
7:00 P.M. - CIVIC CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBER
73-510 FRED WARING DRIVE
* * * * * * � * * * * * � * * * * * � * * * * �
�" I. CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Whitlock called the meeting to order at 7:02 p.m.
II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Commissioner powns led in the pledge of allegiance.
III. ROLL CALL
Members Present: Carol Whitlock, Chairperson
Bob Downs
Rick Erwood
Sabby Jonathan
Jim Richards
Members Absent: None
Staff Present: Ray Diaz Dave Yrigoyen
Phil Joy Dick Folkers
Carlos Ortega Tonya Monroe
Kandy Allen
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
�
Consideration of the May 7, 1991 meeting minutes.
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner
Richards, approving the May 7, 1991 meeting minutes as
submitted. Carried 3-0-2 (Commissioners Downs and Erwood
abstained) .
V. SUMMARY OF COUNCIL ACTION
Mr. Diaz summarized pertinent council action from the May 9
meeting. He indicated that street fairs had become an issue
and would be coming to the planning commission to determine
if they should processed by conditional use permits. It was
the unanimous consensus of the commission that the matter be
referred to the economic development committee.
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MINUTES
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
MAY 21, 1991
VI. CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Case No. TT 24773 and 24773-1 - DAN ARTHOFER, Applicant �
Request for approval of a one year time
extension for a 38 lot single family
subdivision located south of Hovley lane,
2000 feet west of Portola Avenue. This
is the first time extension request.
Action:
Moved by Commissioner powns, seconded by Commissioner
Richards, approving the consent calendar by minute motion.
Carried 5-0.
It was moved by Commissioner powns, seconded by Commissioner Erwood, to
suspend the order of the agenda items and hear the miscellaneous item
first.
VIII. MISCELLANEOUS
A. RESOLUTION RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE REDEVELOPMENT
PLAN FOR PROJECT AREA NO. 3 AND FINDING THAT THE PROPOSED
REDEVELOPMENT PLAN IS IN CONFORMANCE WITH THE GENERAL
PLAN OF THE CITY OF PALM DESERT.
Mr. Ortega explained that the report before commission was for ""'�'�`
the creation of Project Area 3 and related issues. He was
requesting a recommendation from the commission to council
that the redevelopment plan as proposed was in conformance
with the Generai Plan of the City of Palm Desert. He also
noted that Mr. Dave Yrigoyen, the project manager, was present
to answer any questions.
Action•
Moved by Commissioner powns, seconded by Commissioner Erwood,
approving the findings as presented by staff. Carried 5-0.
Moved by Commissioner powns, seconded by Commissioner Erwood,
adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 1514, recommending
to city council approval of the Redevelopment Plan for Project
Area No. 3. Carried 5-0.
2
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MINUTES
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
MAY 21, 1991
VII. PUBLIC HEARINGS
�
A. Continued Case No. TT 26760 - WESTINGHOUSE DESERT
COMMUNITIES, Applicant
Request for approval of a 232 lot single
family subdivision and negative
declaration of environmental impact on 82
acres southeast of Highway 74 and Cahuilla
Way.
Chairperson Whitlock noted that a letter from the applicant
had been submitted to staff on May 20, 1991, withdrawing their
request.
Action:
No action was necessary.
B. Case Nos. TT 25296 and C/Z 89-16 - BIGHORN VENTURES,
Applicant
Request for a recommendation to the city
council of approval for a 450 unit country
club (Altamira) , a zone change from Open
� Space to PR-5 and HPR for a drainageway
in the central portion of the site, and
certification of an environmental impact
report on 352 acres southeast of Highway
74 and Indian Hills Way.
See attached copy of reporter' s transcript-verbatim minutes
by Yates & Associates.
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Richards, seconded by Commissioner
Jonathan, approving the findings as presented by staff.
Carried 4-0-1 (Chairperson Whitlock abstained) .
Moved by Commissioner Richards, seconded by Commissioner
Jonathan, adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 1515,
recommending approval of TT 25296 and C/Z 89-16, and
certification of the related environmental impact report to
city council, subject to clarification of the lambing area
being identified. Carried 4-0-1 (Chairperson Whitlock
abstained) .
3
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MINUTES
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
MAY 21, 1991
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IX. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
None. �
X. COMMENTS
None.
XI. ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Richards, seconded by Commissioner
Erwood, adjourning the meeting. Carried 5-0. The meeting
adjourned at 10:35 p.m.
.
��� . .�'
RAMON A. DIAZ, S c - �ary
,�"
ATTEST:
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CAROL WHITLOCK, Chairperson
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSTON
� PUBLIC HEARING
CiTY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
73-510 FRED WARING DRIVE
PALM DESERT, CALIFORNIA
TUESDAY, MAY 21, 1991
REPORTER' S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS WITH REFERENCE
TO CASE NOS. TT 25296 AND C/Z 80-16 — BIGHORN
VENTURES , APPLICANT. REQUEST FOR A RECOMMENDATION TO
THE CITY COUNCIL OF APPROVAL FOR A 450—UNIT COUNTRY
CLUB (ALTAMIRA) , A ZONE CHANGE FROM OPEN SPACE TO
PR-5 AND HPR FOR A DRAINAGEWAY IN THE CENTRAL PORTION
OF THE SITE, AND CERTIFICATION OF AN ENVIRONMENTAL
IMPACT REPORT ON 352 ACRES SOUTHEAST OF HIGHWAY 74
AND INDIAN HILLS WAY .
PLANNING COMMISSION:
CAROL WHITLOCK, CHAIRMAN
BOB DOWNS
� SABBY JONATHAN
RICHARD ERWOOD
JIM RICHARDS
CITY STAFF PARTICIPATING:
RAMON A. DIAZ , DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
KANDY ALLEN, CITY ATTORNEY
PHIL JOY, ASSOCIATE PLANNER �
REPORTED BY:
G. JOANNE BERGREN, C. S .R.
CERTIFICATE NO. 6334
�
&ASSOCIATES
CERTIFIED COURT 8c DEPOSITION REPORTERS
73-255 EL PASEO/SUITE 15
� PALM DESERT,CA 92260-4276
619 / 341-4431
FAX 619 / 568-9338
` MEMBERS OF:CALIFORNIA COURT REPORTERS ASSOCIATION AND NATIONAL SHORTHAND REPORTERS ASSOCIATION
�
�
2
1 1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2
�2 3 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: AS MOST EVERYONE IN THE ROOM HERE
4 THIS EVENING IS HERE FOR THIS PUBLIC HEARING, I WOULD LIKE
5 TO ASK THAT WE TRY TO OBSERVE THE FIVE-MINUTE TIME LIMIT
6 SO THAT EVERYONE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK THIS EVENING WILL
7 HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO. OBVIOUSLY, IF YOU NEED MORE
8 TIME, PLEASE SAY SO, BUT WE WOULD LIKE TO TRY AND LIMIT
9 EVERY SPEAKER TO FIVE MINUTES OR LESS SO THAT WE HAVE AN
10 OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR ALL OF YOU WHO ARE HERE TONIGHT TO
11 EXPRESS YOUR OPINION .
12 THIS IS CASE NO . TENTATIVE TRACT 25296 AND
13 CHANGE OF ZONE 89-16 . BIGHORN VENTURES IS THE APPLICANT.
� �,: 14 REQUEST FOR A RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY COUNCIL OF
.
15 APPROVAL FOR A 450-UNIT COUNTRY CLUB (ALTAMIRA) , A ZONE
16 CHANGE FROM OPEN SPACE TO PR-5 , AND HILLSIDE PLAN
17 RESIDENTIAL FOR A DRAINAGEWAY IN THE CENTRAL PORTION OF
18 THE SITE, AND CERTIFICATION OF AN ENV.IRONMENTAL IMPACT
; 19 REPORT ON 352 ACRES SOUTHEAST OF HIGHWAY 74 AND INDIAN
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20 HILLS WAY.
21 MR. DIAZ , MAY WE HAVE THE STAFF REPORT?
22 DIRECTOR DIAZ : PHIL JOY, OF THE STAFF, WILL GIVE THE
23 REPORT AS WELL AS INTRODUCE THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT
; 24 REPORT CONSULTANT TEAM.
25 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : YES . MADAM CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS
�
26 OF THE COMMISSION. I ' D LIKE TO BRIEFLY GO OVER THE
3
2 1 HISTORY OF THE PROJECT Ar1D START OUT BY SAYING WHY THIS
2 PROJECT IS BEFORE YOU AGAIN .
�,,; 3 BASICALLY , AFTER THE COMMISSION ACTED ON THE
4 PROJECT APPROXIMATELY A YEAR AGO , AS THE PROJECT WAS BEING
5 PRESENTED TO THE COUNCIL, BOTH SIDES -- THAT WERE THE
6 APPLICANT AND THE OPPOSITION TO THE PROJECT -- WERE
7 BECOMING INCREASINGLY UNHAPPY WITH THE E . I . R. AND,
8 THEREFORE, THE CITY ATTOR�tEY ADVZSED REJECTION OF THE
9 E . I . R. AND PREPARATION OF A NEW E . I . R. AND THIS RECEIVED
10 CONCURRENCE WITH BOTH PARTIES , AND THIS WHAT -- WHICH THE
11 COUNCIL DID.
12 THIS NECESSITATED PREPARATION OF A NEW E . I . R. ,
13 WHICH WAS TO EXAMINE THE PROJECT WHICH THE PLANNING
� 14 COMMISSION RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF APPROXIMATELY A YEAR
15 AGO. AND SINCE THAT TIME THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE OF
16 MINOR CHANGES THAT ARE MENTIONED IN THE STAFF REPORT , AND
17 I CAN GO OVER THAT RIGHT NOW .
18 THE FIRST WAS A CHANGE THAT CALTRAPIS REQUIRED,
19 RELOCATING THE PROJECT ENTRANCE FROM OPPOSITE THE ENTRYWAY
20 TO SILVER SPUR MO$ILE HOME PARK TO THE NEXT MOBILE HOME
21 PARK DOWN THE HIGHWAY .
22 THE OTHER CHANGE INVOLVED A CREATION OF
23 SINGLE-FAMILY LOTS IN THE NORTHERN PORTION OF THE PROJECT,
24 REPLACING THE PATIO HOMES WHICH THE APPLICANT ORIGINALLY
25 HAD PROPOSED .
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26 THE THIRD CHANGE IS , THE PLAN NOW DOES NOT
4
2 1 RELOCATE THE EXISTING WATER TANKS THAT WERE -- THAT ARE
2 PRESENTLY ABOVE IRONWOOU COUNTRY CLUB.
3 AND THEN THE FOURTH CHANGE HAD TO DEAL WITH �
4 BOUNDARY ADJUSTMENTS WITH WESTII�IGHOUSE , THE WESTINGHOUSE
5 EAST PROPERTY . AND I THINK THE PREVIOUS PROJECT HAD A
6 BOUNDARY ADJUSTMENT BETWEEN THE T6�10 PROPERTIES , AND THIS
7 NEW PLAN GOES BACK TO THE ORIGINAL CONFIGURATION OF THE
8 PROPERTIES .
9 THE NET RESULT OF THESE CHANGES IS A REDUCTION
10 OF THE NUMBER OF UNITS FOR THE PROJECT FROM 484 TO 450 ,
11 AND STAFF FEELS THESE ARE NOT SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO THE
12 PROJECT.
13 THE TWO AREAS THAT THE E . I . R. EXPLORED
14 GENERATING THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF CONTROVERSY WERE RELA'l�
15 TO BIOLOGY AND LAND USE . THE BIOL�GICAL IMPACTS FOCUSED
16 ON FOUR AREAS , AGAIN .
17 FIRST WAS THE DESERT TORTOISE , WHERE NO VISIBLE
18 SIGN OF TORTOISE COULD BE LOCATED ON THE PROPERTY , SO NO
19 IMPACT WAS DETERMINED.
20 THE SECOND WAS TO THE WILD BIGHORN SHEEP IN THE i
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21 AREA, WHERE SOME DISAGREEMENT OF EXPERTS OCCURRED, BUT THE
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22 CONSULTING BIOLOGIST CONCLUDED THAT NO SIGNIFICANT IMPACTS j
23 TO THE WILD SHEEP WERE FOUND .
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24 THE THIRD BIOLOGICAL IMPACT DEALT WITH THE I
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I
25 DESERT WASH, WHERE DEAD INDIAN CREEK USED TO FLOW THROUG,� j
3
26 THE PROPERTY . AND THERE IS ALSO DISAGREEMENT AMONG
5
3 1 EXPERTS ALONG THIS POINT , WITH THE BIOLOGISTS CONCLUDING
2 THAT IT WAS SIGNIFICANT, WHILE STAFF CONCLUDES THAT IT IS
, 3 NOT SIGNIFICANT, DUE TO ITS LACK OF UNIQUENESS , EXTENT OF
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4 PREVIOUS MANMADE INTERFERENCE , AP1D PHOTOGRAPHS SHOWING THE
5 SITE AFTER THE FLOODS IN 1977 AND 1979 , WHERE VIRTUALLY
6 THE ENTIRE PROPERTY WAS SWEPT CLEAN OF ALL VEGETATION IN
7 THE WASH AREA.
8 AND IT ALSO COULD BE ARGUED THAT THE WASH , IP1
9 ITS PRESENT CONDITION, SUPPORTING A LOT OF WILDLIFE , COULD
10 ACTUALLY ATTRACT COYOTES THAT ARE NOT CONDUCIVE TO THE
11 ACTIVITIES AT THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE .
12 THE FOURTH AREA THAT THE BIOLOGICAL SECTION
13 EXAMINED ARE IMPACTS TO THE INSTITUTE ITSELF . THIS AREA,
14 OBVIOUSLY , HAD A DISAGREEMENT AMONG EXPERTS . IT WAS THE
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15 BIOLOGIST ' S OPINION THAT A 600-YARD TO 1100-YARD BUFFER
16 WAS NEEDED, BASED ON QUESTIONNAIRE RESPOtISES THAT
17 RECOMMENDED BUFFERS ANYWHERE FROM SEVERAL MILES TO NO
18 BUFFER AT ALL. THE BUFFER -- EXCUSE ME . THE PROJECT, AS
19 DESIGNED, PROVIDES A 200-YARD BUFFER TO THE GOLF COURSE
20 AND A 300- TO 400-YARD BUFFER, APPROXIMATELY , TO HOMES .
21 AND STAFF FEELS THIS IS RCCEPTABLE , BASED ON
22 RESPONSES FROM, AMONG OTHERS , THE LIVING DESERT, WHO FELT
23 200 FEET TO THE GOLF COURSE WAS ACCEPTABLE AND, FOR
24 CLARIFICATION PURPOSES , NOT THE 30 FEET MISQUOTED IN SOME
25 OF THE NEWSPAPERS AND ACCIDENTALLY REFERRED TO . ALTHOUGH
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26 THE LIVING DESERT ' S RESPONSE WAS BASED UPON THEIR STAFF
6
3 1 AND NOT JUST THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AND WE WAP1T TO POINT
2 THAT OUT ALSO .
3 THE LIVING DESERT DID MAIL THE PLA,`iNING �
4 COMMISSION A LETTER, AP1D I BELIEzIE YOU ALL HAVE A COPY OF
5 THAT IN FRONT OF YOU, REITERATING THEIR POINT . AND �1HAT
6 THIS LETTER DOES IS MORE OR LESS RESTATE THEIR
7 QUESTIONI�IAIRE RESPONSES .
$ AND IF I COULD REr:r' THE LAST PARAGRAPH, I THINK
9 IT MIGHT CLARIFY THINGS A LIT`i BIT . THEY SAY :
10 "THEREFORE , Tr:� SUFFER AREA
11 BETWEEN THE BIGHORN = .::EP AND HEAVY-USE
12 ACCESS COULD BE GRADUATED FROM THE AREA
13 CLOSEST TO THE SHEEP HAVING THE LEAST
14 AMOUNT OF TRAVEL, TO THE AREA AT THE �
15 OTHER ET1D BEING VERY BUSY . IN OUR
16 OPINION, THE WHOLE BUFFER, UNLESS IT IS
17 UNDER 200 FEET, WOULD NOT NEC�SSARILY
18 HAVE TO BE DEDICATED TO OPEN, NATURAL
19 SPACE . AND ALSO, WE ' D LIKE TO ADD THE
20 POINT THAT THE LIVING DESERT CAI�INOT
21 RESPOND DIRECTLY TO THE RECOMMENDED
22 BUFFER SIZE . "
23 THE OTHER AREA OF THE E . I . R . GENERATING
24 CONTROVERSY EXPLORED BY THE E . I . R. WAS THE LAND USE
25 SECTION, WHICH IS PERTINENT IN DETERMINING COMPATIBILIT �
26 BETWEEN THE USES .
�
3 1 THIS SECTION STRESSED THAT ALL PREVIOUS
2 APPROVALS THAT THE INSTITUTE HAD RECEIVED ALL MADE
`�"` 3 FINDINGS THAT THEIR USE WAS COMPATIBLE WITH SURROUNDING
4 PLANNED USES WHICH CALLED FOR RESIDENTIAL, COC7CLUDING THAT
5 ANY INCOMPATIBILITY WAS SELF-IMPOSED BY THE INSTITUTE .
6 A SENSE OF THE LEGAL NOTE , STAFF HAS RECEIVED
7 NUMEROUS INQUIRIES FROM THE PRESS AND THE INSTITUTE
8 CONCERNING CONTINUANCES TO THE PROJECT, AND WE HAVE
9 STRESSED THAT THIS IS A MATTER UP TO THE COMMISSION ' S
10 DISCRETION .
11 IN CLOSING, WE HAVE RECEIVED LETTERS PREVIOUSLY
12 TO TODAY FROM DOROTHY TUCK OF INDIAN HILLS CONDOMINIUM
13 PROJECT AND THE SUMMIT HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION URGING
`�' 14 APPROVAL. AND JUST PRIOR TO THE MEETING, WE RECEIVED TEN
15 OTHER NOTES THAT HAVE ALSO BEEN PASSED OUT TO YOU
16 RECOMMENDING PRESERVATION OF THE ACTIVITIES OF THE BIGHORN
17 INSTITUTE.
18 I WOULD LIKE TO CLOSE THAT STAFF DOES SUPPORT
t9 MITIr1�TION MFJ��IJRF`; , � rr�rrrcnr,r,v , rr� . -�� , r�rr.��rrrrr, �r�
20 CONSTRUCTION CURTAILMENT DURING THE LAMBING PERIOD AND THE
21 REQUIREMENT THAT THE DEVELOPER BE REQUIRED TO CONSTRUCT A
22 SECOND FENCE SURROUNDING THE LAMBING PEN AT THE INSTITUTE .
23 NEXT, I ' D LIKE TO INTRODUCE THE CONSULTANTS WHO
24 PREPARED THE E . I . R. AND THEY WILL REVIEW THE DOCUMEMT ,
� 25 EXPLAIN THE WAY THE DOCUMENT IS TO BE USED , AMONG OTHER
26 THINGS .
8
3 1 SO IF THERE ' S NO QUESTIONS , AT THIS TIME I ' D
2 LIKE TO IN'?' JUCE ANDRIE'i'TE ADAMS , TO MY LEFT -- MY
3 Ir° :�DIATE Lr:FT , ANQ nAN FR�� _:KE , TO MY F11R I�FFT , OF `''�
4 CULBERTSOI�1 , ADAMS & ASSOCIATES , TO REVIEW THE E . I . R.
5 MS . ADAMS : MADAM CHAIRMAN , MEMBERS OF T�-- PLANNING
6 COMMISSION . I AM ANDRIETTE ADAMS , AND I AM E: �UTIVE VICE
7 PRESIDENT AND PRINCIPAL OF CULBERTSON, ADAMS & .�SSOCIATES ,
8 INC. , AN URBAN PLANKING AND ENVIRONMENTAL CONSULTING FIRM
9 LOCATED IN ORANGE COUNTY . TO MY LEFT IS DANIEL FRICKE ,
10 WHO IS OUR DIRECTOR G�� ENVIRONMENTAL P_ .NNING.
11 OUR FIRM HAS BEEN RETAINED BY THE CITY OF PALM
12 DESERT TO PREPARE AN ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT F.�PORT ON THE
13 ALTAMIRA COUNTRY CLUB PROJECT, AND WE HAVE BEEN UNDER '�'HE
14 DIRECT MANAGEMENT OF CITY STAFF SINCE DECEMBER OF 1990 .�
15 OUR TASK HAS BEEN TO PREPARE THE DRAFT AND FINAT
16 ENVIRONMENTAL REPORT FOR THE CITY ' S USE DURING THE
17 CONSIDERATION OF THE ZONE CHANGE AND TENTATIVE MAP .
18 THE DRAFT E . I . R . , AFTER HAVING BEEf1 '.EVIEWED IN
4 "
19 SU�� �SSIVE DRAFTS BY CITY STAFF, WAS DISTRIBUTED ON
20 MAY 14 , 1991 , FOR PUBLIC REVIEW . THERE IS A 45—DAY PUBLIC
21 REVIEW PERIOD. IT ENDS ON JUNE 27 , 1991 . AND OVER 70
22 E . I . R. ' S WERE DISTRIBUTED.
23 THE E . I . R. CONSISTS OF `'�?�iREE VOLUMES , WHICH hc2E
24 SITTING ON THE TABLE IN FRONT OF THIS IS VOLUME I ,
,
25 WHICH MOST OF YOU HAVE USED BEFORE , AND IT ' S P. DRAFT ,;�
26 E . I . R.
9
4 1 BUT THE -- IN ORDER TO ASSEMBLE AN APPROPRIATE
2 ADMINISTRATIVE RECORD AND MAKE THE COMMISSION AND THE
�, 3 PUBLIC AWARE OF ALL THE SUPPORTING MATERIALS DEALTNG WITH
4 THIS PROJECT, OUR OFFICE PREPARED TWO VOLUMES OF TECHNICAL
5 APPENDICES . THE FIRST VOLUME CONTAINS THE REPORTS THAT
6 WERE PREPARED SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT IN
7 THIS PARTICULAR EDITION OF THE E . I . R .
8 THIS VOLUME , THE LARGE ONE, IS A VOLUME THAT
9 CONTAINS MANY THINGS THAT WE CONSIDERED TO BE OF
10 ASSISTANCE TO THE CITY IN ITS CONSIDERATION. IT INCLUDES
11 THE OLDER RECORD FOR THE PROJECT , THE PRIOR E . I . R. , AND
12 THE RESPONSES TO COMMENTS AND THE DELIBERATIONS OF YOUR
13 COMMISSION AND THE COUNCIL, AS WELL AS SOME OTHER
� 14 MATERIALS THAT ARE CONSIDERED -- WE CONSIDER PERTINENT TO
15 THE CONSIDERATION.
16 NOW, CEQA WOULD HAVE ALLOWED US TO INCORPORATE
17 BY REFERENCE THESE MATERIALS , SUNIMARIZING THEM BRIEFLY AND
18 RECITING WHERE � A COPY MIGHT BE VYEWED BY THE PUBLIC, BUT
19 IN THE INTERESTS OF MAKING A FULL AS POSSIBLE DISCLOSURE
20 AND CONVENIENCE , WE PUBLISH THESE MATERIALS IN VOLUMES TO
21 BE BROUGHT WITH THIS E . I . R . , TO BE CONSIDERED WITH IT .
22 IN DISTRIBUTING THE 70 DRAFT E . I . R. ' S -- STATE
23 LAW REQUIRES THAT YOU DISTRIBUTE THEM TO CERTAIN PEOPLE :
24 RESPONSIBLE AGENCIES , AGE�ICIES WITH JURISDICTION BY LAW,
25 PERSONS WHO HAVE REQUESTED A COPY BEFORE . AND THIS WAS
�
26 DONE . BUT ADDITIONALLY , NOTICES OF AVAILABILITY WERE SENT
10
4 1 TO ANYONE WHICH THE CITY BELIEVED MIGHT BE INTERESTED IP1
2 THIS E . I . R. PROJECT. SO A VERY EiItOAD DISS.�:MItlATIOPI OF THE
3 AVAILABILITY OF THIS E . I . R . WI�S M11�E . ALL OF THESF. �
4 NOTICES INDICATED TfiE REVIEW PERIOD.
5 THE E . I . R. HAS -- HAS BEEN OUT FOR ONE WEEK.
6 WE HAVE RECEIVED -- OR OUR OFFICE HAS RECEIVED ONE COMME.. :
7 SO FAR. IT ' S EXPECTED THAT IN THE NEXT FIVE WEEKS , WE ' LL
8 RECEIVE MORE COMMENTS .
9 I ' D LIKE TO JUST BRIEFLY DESCRIBE TO YOU THE
10 PROCESS THAT WILL BE FOLLOWED UP TO THAT -- AFTER THAT
11 POIAIT. STATE LAW PROVIDES THAT ANY PERSON MAY COMMENT OK
12 AN E . I . R. IN WRITING PRIOR TO THE CLOSE OF THE DRRFT
13 E . I . R. REVIEW PERIOD.
14 WHEN THOSE COMMENTS ARE PRESENTED TO THE AG�Y
15 IN WRITING WITHIH THAT 45 DAYS , THE AGENCY IS UNDER AN
16 AFFIRMATIVE OBLIGATION TO RESPOND TO THOSE COMMENTS IN
17 WRITING.
18 IF THE COMMENTS RAISE SIGNIFICANT ISSUES
19 CONCERNING THE E . I .R. OR MITIGATION MEASURES , THE AGENCY
20 MUST DESCRIBE -- IF THEY CHOOSE NOT TO TAKE THAT MEASURE
21 OR REFLECT THAT COMMENT POSITIVELY IN THE RECORD, THEY
22 MUST DESCRIBE WHY .
23 ONE OF OUR CHIEF EFFORTS IN O�.,R RELATIONSHIP
24 dITH THE CITY WILL BE TO RESPOND TO THOSE COMMENTS WHEN
25 THEY COME IN . TYPICALLY , THEY COME IN VERY CLOSE TO TH�
26 END OF THE REVIEW PERIOD, BUT AS THEY ARE RECEIVED, THEY
li
4 1 ARE BEING RESPONDED TO BY OUR OFFICE IN DRAFT FORM,
2 PRESENTED TO MR. JOY , WHO PROVIDES US WITH COMMENTS ON OUP,
�"' 3 RESPONSES .
4 THE WAY THIS PROJECT STARTED OUT, EVEN THOUGH
5 IT HAD A PRIOR HISTORY , WAS THAT THE CITY CONDUCTED A
6 THOROUGH INITIAL STUDY OF THE PROJECT. THIS INITIAL STUDY
7 IS THE FIRST STEP, ORDINARILY , IN AA1 E . I . R. PROJECT AND
8 IT ' S NOT REQUIRED WHERE AN E . I . R . -- WHERE THE AGENCY
9 ALREADY MAKES A DETERMINRTION THAT THEY ARE GOING TO
10 REQUIRE AN E . I . R.
11 HOWEVER, THE CITY OF PALM DESERT DID TAKE THIS
12 STEP AND DESCRIBED, IN THIS INITIAL STUDY , THE IMPACTS
13 THAT WOULD BE ADDRESSED IN THE E . I . R. AND IF THE CITY
� 14 CONSIDERED THESE IMPACTS NONSIGNIFICANT, THEN THE CITY SO
15 STATED, AND SO THAT IT WAS AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC .
16 WHAT WE DID THEN IS THAT THE -- THE STATE LAW
17 PROVIDES THAT A NOTICE OF PREPARATION PERIOD BE COMMENCED,
18 30 DAYS IN LENGTH, WHERE YOU ARE REQUIRED, AS AN AGErdCY,
19 TO PROVIDE NOTICE TO CERTAIN AGENCIES AND PERSONS WHO
20 REQUESTED PREVIOUSLY , NOTICE . YOU ARE REQUIRED TO TELL
21 THEM ABOUT THE PROJECT AND SOLICIT THEIR VIEWS ON WHAT THE
22 SCOPE OF THE E . I . R. SHOULD BE .
23 THIS WAS DONE , NOT ONLY TO A -- TO THE PERSONS
24 WHO -- WITHIN THE STATUTE ARE REQUIRED TO RECEIVE SUCH
�' 25 NOTICE , BUT WAS ALSO PROVIDED TO MANY OTHER PEOPLE IP1 THE
26 FORM OF A NONSTATUTORY ADVISEMENT . THE STATUTE DOESr1 ' T
12
4 1 REQUIRE YOU TO ACTUALLY NOTIFY THEM AND PROVIDE THEM THE
2 INITIAL STUDY, IIUT TFiIS W11S DONE: IN ANY EVEN'1'.
3 SUBSEQUENT TO THAT TIME AND PRIOR TO THE `'�
5
4 CLOSURE OF THE 30—DAY REVIEW PERIOD, WE RECEIVED MANY
5 RESPONSES TO THAT NOTICE OF PREPARATION, AS IS NORMALLY
6 THE CASE WITfi E . I . R. ' S . WE ' VE INCORPORATED THOSE
7 RESPONSES INTO THE E . I . R . WE EVEN RECEIVED SOME RESPONSES
8 AFTER THE NOTICE OF PREPARATION PERIOD HAD CLOSED. AND
9 ALTHOUGH THE CITY WAS NOT LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO INC`,UDE
10 THOSE RESPONSES , THE CITY DIRECTED US TO DO SO . SO THIS
11 E . I . R. WILL REFLECT THIS FIRST STEP IN THE RESPONSES .
12 FOR THIS E. I . R. , ADDITIOI�IAL NOTICE HAS BEEN
13 GIVEN . THE PROPERTY HAS BEEN POSTED, THERE HAS BEEN A
14 NEWSPAPER NOTICE, NOTICE HAS BEEN PUBLISHED IN THE -- c�
15 POSTED AT THE CLERK' S OFFICE IN THE COUNTY OF RIVERSIDE .
16 AND IN ALL WAYS , THE C� '� HAS ENDEAVORED TO REACH AS MANY
17 PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE AND LET THEM KNOW ABOUT THIS E . I . R. ' S
18 AVAILABILITY AND SOLICIT THEIR COMMENT .
19 WHEN THE COMMENTS ON THE E . I . R. ARE RESPONDED
20 TO, THE COMMISSION WILL RECEIVE THOSE FOR CONSIDERATION,
21 AS WILL THE COUNCIL, THE ULTIMATE DECISION—MAKER. IT --
22 BECAUSE OF THE CONTROVERSY THAT HAS SURROUNDED, AS MR . JOY
23 MENTIONED, CERTAIN OF THE TOPICAL AREAS OF THIS E . I . R. --
24 AND I SHOULD MENTION THAT THE TOPICAL AREAS ARE EXPANDED
25 BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THE E . I . R. THAT YOU PREVIOUSLY �
26 CONSIDERED LAST YEAR .
13
5 1 BECAUSE OF THE CONTROVERSY , IT IS NECESSARY FOP.
2 ME TO ADVISE YOU OF A FEW PRINCIPLES IN CEQA, IF I MAY ,
� 3 DEALING WITH DISAGREEMENT AMONG EXPERTS AND WHAT THE ROLE
4 OF YOUR COMMISSION AND THE CITY COUNCIL WILL BE WITH
5 RESPECT TO THOSE DISAGREEMENTS .
6 ON PAGES 7 AND 8 OF YOUR E . I . R. , THE FIRST
7 VOLUME , YOU "ILL FIND AN EXPLANATION OF THE BASIC
8 PRINCIPLES IN CEQA DEALING WITH DISAGREEMENT AMONG
9 EXPERTS .
10 MANY TIMES EXPERTS CAN DISAGREE VERY VIGOROUSLY
11 ON TECHNICAL ISSUES CONCERNING THE PROJECT , SCOPE OF
12 IMPACT, WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ABOUT IT . ZT ' S A NATURAL
13 CONCOMITANT OF THE PROCESS . IT DOESN ' T ALWAYS HAPPEN, BUT
�" 14 IT HAPPENS WITH ENOUGH FREQUENCY THAT IT HAS BEEN
15 ADDRESSED, BOTH IN THE STATE CEQA GUIDELINES AND IN CASE
.16 LAW.
17 I CAN ADVISE YOU THAT WHERE THERE ' S
18 DZSAGREEMENT AMONG EXPERTS AND IT IS KNOW� PRIOR TO THE
19 PUBLICATION OF THE DRAFT E . I . R. , THAT THE LAW REQUZRES
20 THAT WE, AS YOUR CONSULTANTS , REPORT THAT DISAGREEMENT IN
21 THE E. I . R. , SUMMARIZE THE MAIN POINTS OF DIFFERENCE , AND
22 IN ALL WAYS , TRY TO PROVIDE YOU WITH FULL DISCLOSURE AS TO
23 THE DISAGREEMENT , THE NATURE OF THE DISAGREEMENT , WHAT THE
24 EXPERTS ARE SAYING .
'�'" 25 WE DID THAT HERE . WE HAD TO DO IT ON A VARIETY
26 OF ISSUES . AND AS YOU READ THE E . I . R. , PARTICULARLY IN
14
5 1 THE BIOLOGICAL RESOURCES SECTION , YOU WILL FIND US MAKING
2 F2�FERENCE 7.'O DISAGREEMf�.PJ'1'S 11:�;ONC I�;X�'EIZ`i':; . Z'fI11`l' fI11S fIELP�L
3 TO FACILITATE YOUR L:dDERSTANDING T�iAT A DISAGREEMENT �
4 EXISTS AND ON WHAT BASIS IT EXISTS , BECAUSE IT AFFECTS --
5 IN THIS CASE , DEPENDING OI�1 WHICH EXPERT IS RENDERING AN
6 OPINION OR WHICH BODY OF EXPERTS , IT WILL AFFECT WHICH
7 MITIGATION MEASURE IS SELECTED OR WHICH PROJECT
8 ALTERNATIVE IS SELEC _ �D.
9 YOU ARE AT TOTAL LIBERTY, AS IS THE CITY
10 COUNCIL, THE lii�TIMATE DECISION—MAKER RATHER, TO MAKE A
11 SELECTIOAI AMONG EXPERT OPINIONS SO LONG AS YOU STATE WHY
12 YOU ACCEPTED ONE EXPERT ' S JUDGMENT OVER THE OTHER OR
13 OTHERS . THAT IS UNIQUELY WITHIN THE DOMAIN OF THE
14 DECISION—MAKER. �`
15 WE HAVE DONE EVERYTHING WE CAN TO EXPLAIN
16 THE -- HOW YOU APPROACH SUCH A DISAGREEMENT AND TO ALERT
17 YOU WITHIN THE TEXT WHEN A DISAGREEMENT EXISTS . WE HAD A
18 CONSULTING BIOLOGIST ON THIS PROJECT, AND THAT FIRM HAS
19 RENDERED AN OPINION ON THE DATA, ON THE -- BASICALLY THE
20 FOUR ISSUES THAT MR. JOY ACQUAINTED YOU WITH .
21 BUT THERE ARE -- THE E . I . R. RLSO DISCLOSES THA'I
22 THERE WAS DISAGREEMENT AMONG THE EXPERTS , EVEN THOUGH
23 SOLICITED BY THE CONSULTING BIOLOGISTS , AND THEIR
24 VIEWPOINTS , TO THE EXTENT THAT THIS E . I . R. WOULD BE , YOU
25 KNOW, 90Q PAGES LONG , HAVE BEEN EXPOSED IN THE E . I . R . �
26 YOUR CONSIDERATION .
15
5 1 THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THIS EXERCISE IrI
2 DISAGREEMENT AMONG EXPERTS IN CEQA IS TO ALLOW YOU , NOT
�"` 3 PARTICULARLY -- ALLOW THE E . I . R. , NOT PARTICULARLY TO
4 DECIDE WHO ' S RIGHT AND WHO ' S WRONG , BUT TO ALLOW YOU TO
5 TAKE INTELLIGENT ACCOUNT OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSEQUENCES
6 OF THE PROJECT SO THAT YOU KNOW THAT THE DISAGREEMENT IS
7 OUT THERE AND YOU WEIGH, IN YOUR JUDGMENT, WHO YOU THINK
8 HAS THE BETTER VIEW ON IT.
9 THE TYPICAL WAY THAT YOU WILL GO THROUGH THIS
10 PROCESS OF WEIGHING AND BALANCING AND ACCEPTING THE
11 JUDGMENT WILL BEGIN WITH A READING OF THE E . I . R. ALTHOUGH
6
12 IT ' S VOLUMINOUS , I MUST TELL YOU THAT THERE IS NO
13 SUBSTITUTE FOR READING THE E . I . R . IT ' S A FASCINATING
�r 14 DOCUMENT, I THINK. AND IT ' S IMPORTANT THAT YOD UNDERSTAND
15 THE DOCUMENT.
16 THE FIRST VOLUME OF THE E . I . R. ALONE IS 258
17 PAGES LONG . IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME , HERE TONIGHT,
18 IN THE TIME CONSTRAINTS AND WITH THE LARGE AUDIENCE THAT
19 WISHES TO ADDRESS YOU, TO GO TOPIC BY TOPIC AND DESCRIBE
20 THEM TO YOU. AND I BELIEVE MR. JOY HAS DONE AN ADMIRABLE
21 JOB OF SUMMARIZING WHAT I BELIEVE WILL BE THE PRINCIPAL
22 FOCUS OF THE DEBATE ON THIS PROJECT.
23 MYSELF AND MR. FRICKE WOULD REMAIN AVAILABLE
24 FOR QUESTIONS TO -- FROM YOUR COMMISSION IF YOU -- AND
+� 25 MR . JOY IKDICATED THAT A CONTINUANCE HAD BEEN DISCUSSED.
26 IF THAT IS THE CASE , IF THAT IS INDEED THE COMMISSION ' S
15
6 1 DESIRE , THEN OUR OFFICE WOULD PROVIDE RESPOKSES TO YOU
2 PRIOR TO YOUR NEXT HEARING TO ANY QUESTIOf1S THAT WERE
3 RAISED TONIGHT . OBVIOUSLY , WE WILL BE RESPC::�DING IN DE'P�H
4 TO THE COMMENTS THAT ARE MADE ON THE E . I . R .
5 IN CLOSING, I WANTED 'i'O COMMENT AND ECHO
6 MR. JOY ' S CONCERN OVER WHAT I CONSIDER -- WHEN I ARRIVED
7 AT THE CITY OF PALM DESERT THIS AFTERNOON, I WAS INFORMED,
8 ALTHOUGH I HAVEN 'T SEEN THE ARTICLES , THAT THE E . I . R .
9 ITSELF HAS BEEN MISQUOTED II�1 THE PR�SS RELATING TO A -- AS
10 I HAVE HEARD IT, THE ASSERTION THAT ' S BEEH MADE IS THAT
11 THE LIVING DESERT MUSEUM RECOMMENDED A 30-FOOT BUFFER, RND
12 THAT IS NOT THE CASE .
13 AS A MATTER OF FACT , THE E . I . R. VERY
14 SPECIFICALLY STATES IN A FOOTNOTE TO THE REFERENCE TO „�
15 30 FEET THAT THE LIVING DESERT MUSEUM �CLINED TO STATE
16 THE BUFFER SIZE, A SPECIFIC BUFFER S . THEY HAVE BEEN
17 VERY HELPFUL, AND I ' M DEEPLY GRATEFUL TO THE LIVING DESERT
18 FOR THE HELP THEY HAVE GIVEN OPZ THIS PROJECT , SIDICE THEIR
19 LETTER HELPED US -- TOLD US ABOUT THEIR FACILITY .
20 AND THAT IS ALL THAT THEY DID . AND TO QUOTE
21 THEM AS -- IF THIS IS INDEED WHAT HAS HAPPENED, TO QUOTE
22 THEM AS HAVING PROPOSED A 30-FOOT BUFFER IS NOT ONLY
23 ERRONEOUS , IT IS NOT A CONCL"SION THAT I THINK YOU CAN
24 DRAW FROM THE DATA IN THE E . I . R. OR THEIR LETTER .
25 I THANK THE COMMISSION FOR HEARING ME OUT ON �
26 THIS , AND I WOULD BE PLEASED TO ANS6JER ANY QUESTIOPIS .
17
6 1 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: ANY QUESTIONS OF THE STAFF?
2 THEN I ' LL OPEf1 THE PUBLIC HEARING AND ASK IF
�'` 3 THE APPLICANT WISHES TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION .
4 MR. HAYHOE : MADAM CHRIRMAN , COMMISSIONERS , STAFF ,
5 CONSULTANTS . MY NAME IS JIM HAYHOE . I ' M THE DEVELOPER OF
6 THIS PROJECT THAT WE FIRST TALKED ABOUT HERE IN THIS ROOM,
7 I THINK SOMETHING LIKE 18 MONTHS AGO .
8 NOT MUCH HAS CHANGED. I AM NOT GOING TO MAKE A
9 LONG DISSERTATION TO TRY TO TELL YOU ABOUT THE PROJECT . I
10 THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS PRETTY MUCH WHAT IT ' S ABOUT. I
11 WOULD LIKE TO DEFER MY COMMENTS UNTIL THE CLOSING OF THE
12 PUBLIC HEARING .
13 IN THE MEANTIME , THOUGH , I WOULD LIKE TO
� 14 INTRODUCE RON WHITE, THE PRESIDENT OF ALTA WEST, WHO WILL
15 INTRODUCE A COUPLE OF OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO MAKE
16 SOME BRIEF REMARKS , SOME EXPLANATIONS , AND ANSWER YOUR
17 QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE .
18 WE ' VE ALL AGREED THAT WE ' RE GOING TO BE BRIEF,
19 AND I THINK THE FIVE-MINUTE RULE , IF IT WERE CUT TO TWO
20 MINUTES IN THIS NEXT PHASE , WOULD BE JUST FINE .
21 SO WITH THAT, GO AHEAD, RON .
22 MR. WHITE : THANK YOU , JIM.
23 MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, I ' M RON WHITE ,
24 PRESIDENT OF ALTA WEST .
� 25 WELL, WE ' RE BACK. AND ONE THING I ' D LIKE TO
26 SAY , TO REITERATE WHAT JIP�f SAYS , IS , WE INTEND TO BE BRIEF
18
6 1 THIS EVENING . WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE COMMISSION HAS A
2 DESIRE TO HAVE OUR PRES�NTATIONS RESTRICTED TO WHAT ' S NE�1 .
3 AND I THI: THERE HAS BEEN SOME STUFF NEW, AND WE ARE �'
4 GOING TO DO THAT .
5 WE ' VE MADE SOT�E CHANGES IN THE PROJECT, AS PHIL
6 ALLUDED TO SINCE YOU SAW THEM, BUT I WANT TO STRESS THAT
7 SINCE THE LAST HEARING , THE PROJECT WE BRING BACK BEFORE
8 YOU THIS EVENING HAS RETAINED ALL OF THE CRITICAL ELEMENTS
9 IN IT THAT YOU TOLD US L.,ST TI��E WAS ESSENTIAL TO YOUR
10 APPROVAL.
11 AND TO DO THAT, WE HAVE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE HERE
12 THIS EVENING THAT ARE GOING TO GO OVER THEM. WE HAVE RON
13 GREGORY, WHO ' S GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE LANDSCAPE PALLETTE
14 AND THE LANDSCAPE DE�'ELOPMENT CONCEPT. �
15 WE ' VE DONE A GREAT DEAL OF WORK SINCE LAST TIME
16 TO REFINE THOSE CONCEPTS . THEY HAVE TURNED OUT VERY
17 EXCITING, ; YOU CAN SEE FROM SOME OF THE BOARDS BEHIND
18 YOU . WE 'VE HAD SOME GOOD HELP FROM SOME OF THE PEOPLE
19 AROUND THE CITY THAT ARE SPECIALISTS IN CREATING NATURAL
20 LANDSCAPING AND DROUGHT-TOLERANT IRRIGATION . AND WE ' RE
21 GOING TO COVER THAT .
22 SO TO BEGIN WITH, WHAT I ' M GOING TO DO IS JUST
23 SAY THAT THIS IS A COUNTRY CLUB PROJECT W=TH 450 UNITS AND
24 350 ACRES , AND INTRODUCE MR. RON GREGORY , WHO WILL TAKE
25 YOU THROUGH THE ESSENTIAL DESIGPI TERMS OF THE PROJECT . �
26 RON.
19
7 1 MR. GREGORY : MADAM CHAIRMAN , MEMBERS OF THE PLANNING
2 COMMISSION , CITY STAFF , AND CONSULTANTS . MY NAME IS RON
�r 3 GREGORY . MY OFFICE IS AT 73-960 HIGHWAY 111 , PALM DESERT.
4 I ' D LIKE TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE MORE IMPORTANT
5 ASPECTS OF THE LANDSCAPE ARCHITECTURAL APPROACH TO THE
6 PROJECT, AND I ' LL DO MY BEST TO KEEP IT WITHIN FIVE
7 MINUTES .
8 THIS DESIGN WILL VERY MUCH BE A
9 DESERT—SENSITIVE DEVELOPMENT . MUCH LIKE THE BIGHORN
10 PROJECT WHICH EXISTS ACROSS HIGHWAY 74 , WE WILL BE USING
11 NATIVE DESERT MATERIAL. BUT UNLIKE THE BIGHORN
12 DEVELOPMENT, WE WILL BE USING DESERT MATERIAL WHICH IS
13 INDIGENOUS TO THIS AREA.
� 14 IN FACT, WE WILL BE USING A THEMATIC TREATMENT
15 OF NATIVE TREES THROUGHOUT THE PROJECT , EVEN THOUGH THE
16 PROJECT WILL BE ZONED IN DIFFERENT LANDSCAPE MEANS , WHICH
17 I WILL DESCRIBE IN A LITTLE WHILE .
18 TREES SUCH AS OUR TdATIVE BLUE PALO VERDE , SMOKE
19 TREES , MESQUITE, CALIFORNIA FAN PALMS , AND DESERT WILLOW
20 WILL BE USED THROUGHOUT THE PROJECT AS A THEME ELEMENT TO
21 TIE THE DIFFERENT AREAS TOGETHER .
22 WE ARE VERY MUCH AWARE THAT , LIKE BIGHORN , THIS
23 PROJECT WILL BE A GATEWAY TO THE CITY OF PALM DESERT , AND
24 WE WILL BE VERY SENSITIVE TO THAT ASPECT .
� 25 I ' D LIKE TO SHOW A FE4� THINGS ON THIS BOARD,
26 AND I ' M WONDERING IF I CAN LIFT THE BOARD A LITTLE CLOSER
20
7 1 AND PERHAPS STEP AWAY FROM THE MIKE. WILL WHAT BE OKAY?
2 CHAI: :jN WHITLOCK : CERTAINLY .
; �
3 MR. GREGORY : THIS IS AN INFILL PROJECT . THIS
4 PHOTOGRAPH SHOWS THE LOCATION OF THE PROJECT RELATIVE TO
5 EXISTING DEVELOPED AREAS .
6 MR. DOWNS : WHY DON ' T YOU SPEAK INTO THE OTHER SIDE
7 OF THE MIKE . YOU CAN ' T TAKE IT WITH YOU .
8 MR. GREGORY : WHAT I ' M TRYING TG :'AKE CL�'�.R HERE _
9 THAT "HIS PROJECT IS AN INFILL DEVELOPMENT . -S IS THE
10 EXISTING BIGHORN DEVEL�� PMENT ACROSS 74 . AND �� 'J CAN SEE ,
11 THROUGH THIS PHOTOGRAPH, EXISTING RESIDENTIAL AREAS .
12 THE OTHER AREA IN GREEN , RIGHT HERE , IS THE
13 PROPOSED RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, ALSO BY WESTINGHOU�:' .
14 THE AREA THAT YOU SEE BORDERED BY THE YELLOW LINE IS TH�
15 PROPOSED ALTAMIRA DEVELOPMENT.
16 UNIDEN"'�FIED VOICE : CAN ' T YOU SHOW �T TO THE
y " AUDIENCE HERE?
1 . MR. GREGORY : SURE . I ' LL JUST c�OLD THIS UP.
19 THIS PHOTOGRAPFi SHOWS WfiAT THE PROJECT LOOKS
20 LIKE FROM THE WEST , LOOKING DOWN :'nW�.RDS IT . THE .yREA
21 HERE , IN GREEN , IS THE BIGHORN DE"."�..OPMENT , THIS IS THE
22 PROPOSED WESTINGHOUSE �?ESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, AND THIS IS
23 THE ALTAMIRA DEVt.:LOPM i . SO THA"" YOU CAN SEE HOW THE
24 INFILL LOOKS FROM THI_ DIFFERENT e�:lGLE .
25 YOU CAN SEE THE VERY LOW DENSITY OF THE �
26 DEVELOPMENT RELATIVE TO THE GOLF COURSE AND OTHER
� 1 LANDSCAPED AREAS . KEEP IN MIND THAT THESE AREAS ARE 21
2 COLORED GREEN FOR ARTIST ' S LICENSE . WE WILL ACTUALLY gE
� 3 USING A LARGE AMOUNT OF DESERT, DRIP-IRRIGATED MATERIAL.
4 WE ' RE VERY MUCH CONCERNED ABOUT THE IMPACT OF
5 THE DEVELOPMENT WHEN VIEWED FROM HIGHWAY 74 . THIS IS A
6 VIEWSHED ANALYSIS PLAN WHICH SHOWS THE IMPACT OF THE VIEW
7 FROM PEOPLE DRIVI�G IN THEIR CARS ON HIGHWAY 74 .
8 BRIEFLY , THE IMPACT RANGES FROM EITHER WHITE ,
9 WHICH IS UNSEEN, TO -- THROUGH GREEN AND BLUE, AND THEN
10 ALL THE WAY UP THROUGH A PINKY MAGENTA COLOR.
11 OBVIOUSLY, THE TERRAIN MOVES UP ON THE WEST
12 SIDE OF 74 , AND THAT AREA, OF COURSE , IS FAR MORE
13 NOTICEABLE FROM YOUR CAR .
�. 14 ANOTHER WAY OF LOOKING AT THIS IS THROUGH A
15 CROSS-SECTION THAT WE PREPARED . THIS IS A POINT LOOKING
16 AT THE DEVELOPMENT FROM A NORTH DIRECTION, LOOKING SOUTH .
17 THIS IS HIGHWAY 74 . AND THIS CROSS-SECTION SHOWS THE
18 DOWNWARD SLOPING OF THE TERRAIN TO THE WEST PROPERTY LINE
19 OF ALTAMIRA AND ON TO THE EAST PROPERTY LINE .
20 YOU CAN SEE THAT THE TERRAIN WORKS DOWN , IN
21 FACT, TO A POINT AT THE LOWEST WASH CROSSING , 110 FEET
22 BELOW THE GRADE OF HIGHWAY 74 TAKEN AT A RIGHT ANGLE AT
23 THE SOUTHERNMOST PORTION OF THE DEVELOPMENT WHERE WE
24 INTERSECT THE RESIDENTIAL PADS . THAT WOULD BE HERE ON THE
�,; 25 DEVELOPMENT.
26 WE HAVE A TREATMENT OF LANDSCAPED ZONES WHICH
22
7 1 I ' D LIKE TO MAKE CLEAR, IF I CA� . AREAS WHICH ARE
2 HILLSIDE AREAS , COULD BE DETERMINED AS THAT, ARE TO ''E
3 LEFT UNTOUCHED . THESE ARE AREAS SHOWN IN A DARKER B:.JWN�
4 AND THESE AREAS WILL NOT BE DEVELOPED. THEY WON ' T BE
5 DISTURBED IN ANY WAY .
6 FROM THERE , WE MOVE TO NATIVE AREAS , WHERE WE
7 WILL REPLANT DISTURBED AREAS WITH INDIGENOUS NATIVE PLANT
8 MATERIAL AS YOU WORK YOUR WAY DOWN . SO THIS ENTIRE AREA,
9 AS YOU WORK SOUT'r. , WILL BE TREATEU IN A NATIVE CONDITION .
10 FROM THERE, WE MOVE TOWARDS WHAT WE CALL A
11 NATIVE TRANSITIONAL. THIS WILL BE INDIGENOUS PLANT
12 MATERIAL WITH OTHER DESERT MATERIALS BROUGHT IN FROM OTHER
13 AREAS . WE 'RE DOING THIS TO PROVIDE SOME ADDITIONAL COLOR
14 ACCENT AND, ALSO, SOME MORE -- A LITTLE MORE OOMPH, SHAL�
15 WE SAY , A LITTLE MORE STRENGTH IN WINTERTIME , WHEN SOME OF
16 THE LOCAL DESERT MATERIAL MIGHT BE A LITTLE FLAT IN COLOR
17 AND LEAF TEXTURE . THAT WOULD BE PRETTY MUCH IN THIS AREA
18 THROUGH HERE .
8
19 FROM THERE , WE MOVE INTO WHAT WE ' RE CALLING A
20 CONTEMPORARY WATER-EFFICIENT LANDSCAPE . THIS IS A TERM
21 THAT WE COINED TO TRY AND EFFECTIVELY DESCRIBE A MORE LUSH
22 AND EFFICIENT USE OF PLANT MATERIAL, WHICH WILL BE
23 IRRIGATED THROUGH A DRIP SYSTEM AND MINIMIZE THE USE OF
24 ANNUAL FLOWER AREAS . THOSE AREAS MUST BE SPRAYED, AND OUR
25 INTENTIO� IS TO TRY AND R�DUCE WATER CONSUMPTION BY UP T�
26 60 PERCENT OVER A COMPARABLE OASIS-STYLE LANDSCAPE
23
8 1 DEVELOPMENT .
2 OTHER AREAS ARE THE WASH AREA . WE HAVE A MAJUR
� 3 WASH RUNNING THROUGH HERE AND THEN OTHER TRIBUTARY WASH
4 AREAS IN THESE AREAS . THE WASH AREAS , LIKE THE REST OF
5 THE LANDSCAPE ZONING , WILL BE IiANULED WITEI A NATIVE
6 APPROACH FROM THE TOP OF THE HILLSIDE PORTION OF THE
7 PROJECT. AND AS WE WORK OUR WAY NORTH, WE WILL TRANSCEND
8 INTO THE MORE LUSH LANDSCAPING, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE
9 CO'I"I'ONWOOD:; , C11I�LF0[ZCJI11 C�'11PJ P11I,M.`: , 11NU O[' COUIt:;E , MOI2I:
10 LUSH USE OF SHRUB MATERIAL.
11 THE GOLF COURSE WILL BE ALSO HANDLED IN A
12 SENSITIVE, NATURAL-TYPE WAY , WHICH I WILL LEAVE TO TED
13 ROBINSON TO EXPLAIN.
� 14 BEHIND YOU, WE HAVE A LOT OF BOARDS SHOWING --
15 I ' LL GO OVER HERE, NOW, ON THE MIKE .
16 WE HAVE MANY BOARDS SHOWING PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE
17 TYPES OF DESERT AND INDIGENOUS PLANT MATERIAL THAT WE
18 WOULD LIKE TO USE ON THIS PROJECT. WE ALSO HAVE SOME
19 PHOTOGRAPHS OF WASH AREAS SHOWING TREATMENTS RANGING FROM
20 THE HIGHER END, WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE MORE OF THE SAND,
21 SMOKE TREES AND BLUE PALO VERDES , AND WORKING DOWN TO MORE
22 OF THE OASIS AREAS .
23 THANK YOU VERY MUCH .
24 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: THANK YOU .
� 25 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION FOR
26 MR. GREGORY .
24
� 1 MR. GREGORY : SURE .
2 COMMISSIONER JONATFI�N : I JUS'P WA:;T TO CONFIRM THAT
�
3 '�HE CODING, THE KEY , WHERE GREEN IS INDICATED, THAT DOES �
4 NOT MEAN TURF?
5 MR. GREGORY : THAT IS CORF'�T .
6 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : T: _T ' S REFERRING TO NATIVE
7 TRANSITIONAL, NATIVE , AND SO FORTH , SO -- �
�I
8 "'R. GREGORY : RIGHT . j
9 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : --IT WILL BE DESERT—TYPE
10 PLANTING .
�
I
11 MR. GREGORY : THE GREEN DOES NOT DENOTE TURF . I
12 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : THANK YOU .
13 MR. GREGORY : THANK YOU . �
�
14 MR. WHITE : AS I SAID IN MY OPENING REMARKS , I
15 THOUGHT WE ' D SHARE WITH YOU THE FACT THAT WE ' VE DONE SOME �
16 DESIGN EVOLUTION OF THE LAiJDSCAPING THAT WE THOUGH'?' :dAS
17 QUITE EXCITING , AND I THINK RON DID A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF
18 SHOWING THE CHARACTER THAT THE COURSE IS TAKING ON .
19 ON YOUR SECOND OR THIRD MEETING LAST SUMMER, �
20 WHEN WE REDESIGNED THE PROJECT TO SATISFY THE PLANNING
21 COMMISSION ' S DIRECTION FOR A BUFFER AT THE SOUTH END OF I
22 THE PROJECT, WE THREW THAT CHALLENGE AT OUR GOLF COURSE
2:s ARCHITECT TED ROBINSON, WHO ' S HERE THIS EVENING TO TALK TO
24 YOU ABOUT HOW THAT TURNED OUT.
25 HE CALLED ME BACK ABOUT THREE DAYS LATER, AFTER�
26 HE LOOKED AT THE CHALLENGE WE GAVE HIM, AND HE SAID, i
i
25
8 1 "RON , I AM SO EXCITED, BECAUSE THE WAY THIS LOOKS RIGHT
2 NOW, THIS COULD TURN OUT TO BE THE MOST EXCITIPIG GOLF
�
3 COURSE HERE IN THE DESERT . "
4 AND, TED, I ' D LIKE YOU TO COME UP AND EXPLAIN
5 HOW THAT ' S EVOLVED, IF YOU WOULD, AND A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
6 THE COURSE AS YOU NOW SEE IT .
7 MR. ROBINSON : MADRM CHAIRMAN , COMMISSIONERS , AND
8 STAFF . MY NAME IS TED ROBINSON. I HAVE �FFICES IN LAGUNA
9 BEACH, 352 THIRD STREET IN LAGUNA BEACH, AND I ALSO HAVE A
10 RESIDENCE HERE IN THE DESERT .
11 I ' VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS PROJECT FOR ALMOST
12 TWO YEARS NOW. BEFORE IT EVEN CAME TO YOU IN YOUR FIRST
13 CONCEPTION , WE STARTED ACTUALLY WALKING THE LAND AND
�
14 TRYING TO DEVELOP THE PLANS .
15 AND REALLY, AS THINGS PROGRESSED, I THINK EVERY �
16 TIME THAT WE ' VE COME BACK WITH A PLAN, WE ' VE COME BACK
17 WITH A BETTER PLAN . AND I THINK THAT WHAT YOU WILL NOTICE
18 ABOUT THIS GOLF COURSE WHICH SETS IT OFF FROM A LOT OF THE
19 GOLF COURSES HERE IN THE DESERT IS THE FACT THAT MOST OF
20 OUR FAIRWAYS ARE WHAT WE CALL DOUBLE-WIDES , SOMETIMES EVEN
21 TRIPLE-WIDES . SO THERE WILL BE VAST AMOUNT OF GOLF COURSE
22 WITH LARGE SEPARATION BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL. AND, OF
23 COURSE , WE CAN GET A MUCH HIGHER QUALITY GOLF COURSE WHEN
24 THAT HAPPENS .
�
25 ACTUALLY , WE HAVE TWO GOLF COURSES IN ONE . THE
26 NORTHERN NINE HOLES ARE PRETTY MUCH IN THE LEVEL LAP1D .
26 �
8 1 AND, OF COURSE , WE INTEND TO DO A LOT OF GRADING , SO THERE
2 �+ILL BE A LOT OF CONTOURING . AND IF ANY OF YOU HAVE SEEN
3 ANY OF MY COURSES THAT I ' VE BEEN INVOLVED Ii1 , LIKE THE �
4 MARRIOTT OR IRONWOOD OR SOME OF THE OTHER ONES , WELL,
5 YOU ' LL KNOW THAT IT WON ' T LOOK FLAT WHEN WE GET FINISHED
6 WITH IT. IT WILL HAVE A VERY NATURAL CHARACTER.
7 t AND THEN WE WILL INTERJECT SOME DESERT USE INTO
8 THAT . AND THERE WILL BE OPEN SPACE AND DESERT I
9 LANDSCAPING, BUT NOT TO THE EXTENT OF THE SOUTHERN NINE
10 HOLES .
11 AND THE SOUTHERN NINE HOLES IS ACTUALLY -- �
12 SEVERAL OF THE HOLES ARE RIGHT UP IN THE DESERT . IT WILL
I
13 BE VERY SIMILAR TO THE BIGHORN CONCEPT. AND THE INTENTION �
14 IS TO DO AS VERY LITTLE GRADING AS WE POSSIBLY CAN TO '�" !
1� PRESERVE THE NATURAL TERRAIN AND THE NATURAL B�'AUTY .
16 AND THEN WHERE WE HAVE ACTUALLY HAD T - DISTURB
17 THE TERRAIN IN THE GOLF COURSE ITSELF, DOWN CLOSER TO THE
18 CLUBHOUSE, THERE ARE VAST AREAS THAT WE WANT TO RESTORE
19 INTO DESERT AREAS THAT LOOK VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT IS THERE '�
20 NOW. AND FOR THIS REASOI�1, I THINK IT ' S GOING TO BE A VERY
21 SPECTACULAR SETTING.
22 BUT I 'M REALLY MOST ENTHUSIASTIC -- LET ALONE
23 FROM THE VERY CHARACTER OF THE COURSE IS THE FACT T?:�aT THE I
�
9
24 CLUBHOUSE SITS IN AN ABSOLUTELY MAGNIFICENT LOCaTICi; I
25 DON ' T THINK THERE ' S ANY CLUBHOUSE IN THE DESERT THA� CAN �'I
(
26 CHALLENGE THIS AS TO THE POTENTIAL . �
i
I
t
27
9 1 IF YOU WILL LOOK AT THE PLAN, YOU WILL NOTICE
2 THAT ON THE NORTH, WE HAVE 'PHE NIrITF� HOLE FINISHING , THE
`� 3 EIGHTH HOLE FINISHES , AND THE CLUBHOUSE WILL SIT ON A
4 PROMONTORY .
5 AND IF ANY OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH WHAT I DID
6 ON THE 17TH HOLE AT THE MARRIOTT, WHERE WE HAVE A
7 CASCADING WATERSCAPE FROM THE 18TH HOLE, THERE WILL BE A �
8 GIANT CASCADING WATERSCAPE THAT WILL FLOW RIGHT DOWN TO
9 THE CLUBHOUSE . AND IT WILL GIVE THE ILLUSION OF GOING
10 THROUGH THE CLUBHOUSE AND OUT THE OTHER SIDE AND DOWN, ,
11 WITH A CASCADING WATERFALL AT A MUCH LOWER LOCATION, ON ��
12 THE 9TH HOLE . '
I
13 AND WE THINK THAT ' S GOING TO BE PROBABLY ONE OF
� 14 THE MOST SPECTACULAR SETTINGS FOR TWO FINISHING HOLES
15 ANYWHERE . SO THAT ' S ONE REASON WHY I 'M SO ENTHUSIASTIC
16 ABOUT IT .
17 AS FAR AS THE NATURAL WASH THAT GOES THROUGH
18 THE PROPERTY, WE INTEND TO PRESERVE AS MUCH OF IT IN ITS
19 NATURAL STATE AS POSSIBLE. THERE WILL BE AREAS THAT WE
20 WILL HAVE TO TURF, THERE WILL BE AREAS THAT WE WILL HAVE
21 TO DISTURB, BUT THEN WE WILL REPLENISH THEM SO THEY WILL
22 LOOK VERY NATURAL.
23 I WAS INVOLVED IN THE DESIGN OF THE IRONWOOD
24 COUNTRY CLUB, AND WE HAVE SEVERAL OF THESE NATURAL WASHES
�,,, 25 GOING THROUGH THE PROPERTY . AND I THINK IF YOU WERE TO GO
I
26 UP THERE AND LOOK AT THAT, YOU ' LL THINK IT ' S HARD TO SAY
i
Za �
9 1 THAT THIS WASN ' T BUILT BY NATURE . AND THIS IS THE INTENT .
2 SO FROM THAT S`PAi+UPOIN�I' , I AM EXTREMELY
3 ENTHUSIASTIC . I THINK THAT IF WE ' RE PERMITTED TO BUILD �
4 THIS GOLF COURSE , IT WILL BE SOMETHING THE COMMUNITY WILL
5 BE REALLY PROUD OF . '
6 THANK YOU VERY MUCH .
i
7 MR. WHITE : THANK YOU , TED. ;
8 OUR ENGINEER IS HERE WITH US THIS EVENING ,
9 HAROLD HOUSLEY . HAROLD IS HERE BECAUSE, AS WE TRAVEL '
10 AROUND IN THE COMMUNITY DISCUSSING THIS PROJECT WITH ALL �
11 OF OUR NEIGHBORS , WE FIND A CONSISTENT QUESTION . AND THAT I
12 IS , "HOW WILL THIS PROJECT HELP CURE THE DRAINAGE PROBLEMS i
i
13 THAT EXIST OUT THERE TODAY?" BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IN THE ;
�
14 PAST THERE ' S BEEN QUITE A BIT OF FLOODING AND A LOT OF ,�
15 DEBRIS AND ROCK AND SAND TRANSPORT IN THE AREAS BELOW.
16 AND HAROLD IS HERE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION FOR
17 OUR NEIGHBORS .
18 MR. HOUSLEY : MY NAME IS HAROLD HOUSLEY . I ".'�I WITI�
19 HOUSLEY ASSOCIATES , INCORPORATED HERE IN PALM DESERT .
20 I ' VE BEEN THE PROJECT ENGINEER SINCE ITS INCEPTION .
21 MADAM CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION,
22 GENERALLY SPEAKING , THERE IS NO SIGNIFICANT CHANGE I?v' THE
23 DRAINAGE ON THIS PROJECT COMPARED TO THE PRIOR PROJEC^"
i
24 HOWEVER, THERE ' S SOME IMPRCVEMENT MANY OF THE NATUR.-._
25 WASHES HAVE BEEN RETAINED ON THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT THAT�
26 WERE NOT -- WITH THE PREVIOUS PROJECT WAS NOT AS SENSITIVE j
;
29
9 1 TO .
2 BUT THE PRIMARY CONCERNS THAT THIS COMMUNITY
� 3 HAS IS IN THE AREA OF IRONWOOD COUNTRY CLUB, WHERE THIS
4 NATURAL WASH, DEAD END CREEK -- I SAY NATURAL. IT ' S
5 SOMEWHAT NATURAL. IT ' S PRIMARILY A MANMADE CHANNEL, I
6 BELIEVE. WHERE THIS WATER FLOWS THROUGH IRONWOOD COUNTRY
7 CLUB, THE AMOUNT OF WATER WILL NOT BE INCREASED. IT WILL
8 BE DECREASED SOMEWHAT, AND THE DEBRIS WILL BE -- SOME OF
9 THE DEBRIS WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE DEAD INDIAN CREEK.
10 IN THE SUMMIT AREA, WHERE THERE IS RANDOM WILD
11 WATER GOING IN A NORTHEASTERLY DIRECTION TOWARD THE SUMMIT
12 AREA, THAT WATER WILL BE CONTROLLED, CONTAINED , AND
13 RETAINED IN A DETENTION BASIN SO THAT THAT PROBLEM WILL BE
� 14 REDUCED SIGNIFICANTLY . IT WILL ALSO LESSEN THE IMPACTS ON
15 THE INDIAN HILLS COUNTRY CLUB SUBDIVISION AS WELL AS
16 LESSEN THE IMPACTS TO HIGEiWAY 74 , WHERE THERE HAS BEEN
17 SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE OVER THE YEARS .
18 SO THFS IS VERY GOOD FOR THE CITY . AND MOST OF
19 YOU COMMISSIONERS ALL REMEMBER THE MRJOR STORMS THAT WE
20 HAVE HAD, WHERE THERE ' S BEEN MANY MILLIONS OF DOLLARS
21 WORTH OF DAMAGE DONE , AND IT CAME RIGHT THROUGH THIS AREA.
22 AND SO THIS IS A VERY GOOD PROJECT THAT WILL ONLY IMPROVE
23 AND PROTECT THE CITY OF PALM DESERT AND THE COMMUNITIES
24 THAT ARE IMMEDIATELY UPSTREAM OF IT.
� 25 THANK YOU VERY MUCH .
26 CHAIRMAi�t WHITLOCK : THANK YOU .
30 I
9 1 MR. WHITE : THANK YOU , HAROLD .
2 THIS BRINGS US `i'O THE SLCTIC_ �F OUR
3 PRESENTATION WHERE WE ' D LIKE TO DISCUSS THE BIOLOGI.:AL �
4 ISSUES . AS YOU KNOW , AS ANDY EXPLAINED EARLIER, THERE IS
5 A DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN EXPERTS IN THE BIOLOGICAL SECTION
6 ON IMPACTS OF THE PROJECT.
7 WHAT I ' D LIKE TO POINT OUT RIGHT NOW IS THAT
8 THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE E . I . R. IS ALL OF THE EVIDE
9 BOTH -- ON VARIOUS ASPECTS OF ALL OF THE EXP= �TS ' INIONS I
10 SPREAD ALL THROUGH IT . IT ' S VERY DIFFICULT TO EXTRACT ALL I
i
11 C THE STUFF THAT APPLIES 'O THIS PROJECT AND THE VARIOUS j
12 POSITIONS , BUT TO CLARIFY THAT , WE HAVE HAD A TEAM WORKII�IG
13 FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF NOW ON THE PROJECT, S . W. C. A. , I
14 IN TUCSON, ARIZO��A. AND STEVE CARUTHERS IS HERE THIS �
15 EVENING TO GO OVER THAT BRIEFLY WITH YOU ALSO .
16 STEVE .
17 MR. CARUTHERS : MADAM CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE
18 COMMISSION , STAFF, CONSULTANTS . IT ' S A PLEASURE TO BE
19 HERE .
20 THIS IS A FEELING OF DEJA �IU . AS YOU REMEMBER,
21 WE WERE HERE A YEAR AGO, LAST YEAR, BASICALLY GIVING YOU
22 THE SAME PRESENTATION . I ' VE BEEN ASKED TO KEEP IT TO --
23 TO LIMIT THE PRESENTATIO?' TONIGHT OK THE BIOLOGICAL
10 '
24 RESO'�RCES , TO THOSE ISSUES THAT HAVE CHANGED SINCE WE WERE
25 HERE LAST. BY AND LARGE , WE ' RE VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF � ;
i
26 THE FINDINGS OF THE E . I . R. AS PRESENTED BY CULBERTSON, �
i
�
31 :,
10 1 ADAMS . ;
i,
2 THERE STILL REMAINS SOME OF WHAT WE WOULD CALL i
i
� 3 ECOHYSTERIA IN THE BIOLOGICAL SECTION . AS WE WERE HERE �
I
4 LAST YEAR, THERE WERE FOUR ISSUES THAT THE BIOLOGISTS THAT �
�
5 PREPARED THE E . I . R. LAST YEAR CLAIMED WOULD BE IMPACTED
6 SIGNIFICANTLY IF THE DEVELOPMENT TOOK PLACE . THESE WERE
7 THE DESERT TORTOISE, THE DESERT WASH , IMPACTS TO THE WILD
8 AND FREE-ROAMING BIGHORN SHEEP, AND THE IMPACTS TO THE
9 BIGHORN SHEEP INSTITUTE .
10 I THINK THAT WE ' VE LOST THE DESERT TORTOISE
11 NOW. TWO MORE YEARS GO BY , I THINK WE WOULD BE DOWN TO A
12 SINGLE ISSUE , AND THAT WOULD BE THE PERCEIVED IMPACTS ON
13 THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE ACTIVITIES . BUT WE ' VE LOST THE
14 DESERT TORTOISE. IT ' S NOT THERE . THAT ' S NOT AN ISSUE .
�
15 THE DESERT WASH -- THE DESERT WASH REQUIREMENTS
16 WILL BE COVERED UNDER THE 1601 PERMIT OF THE STATE OF
17 CALIFORNIA AND THE 404 PERMIT THAT THE ARMY CORPS OF
18 ENGINEERS WILL BE REQUIRED ON THIS PROJECT . THE
19 MITIGATION THAT THOSE AGENCIES AND THE REVIEW THAT THEY
20 WILL HAVE, THE CAL FISH AND GAME , U . S . FISH RND WILDLIFE
21 SERVICE, AND THE BIOLOGISTS OF THE ARMY CORPS OF
22 ENGINEERS , WILL ENSURE THAT THE POSTDEVELOPMENT -- T�IE
23 POSTDEVELOPMENT COMPLEXION OF THE RIPARIAN HABITAT IN THE
24 WILDLIFE-PRODUCING AREAS OF THAT WASH WILL PROBABLY BE AS
25 PRODUCTIVE OR MORE PRODUCTIVE IN THE POSTDEVELOPME'�T STAGE
�
26 THAN AFTERWARDS .
32 '
10 1 THE LAST ISSUE -- OR THE Tn � ISSUE NOW IS �
i
2 WHAT ARE THE IMPIICTS To Ti[c wILD nNn Ff- -ROnMTCJG BiG�ioRN �
j
3 SHEEP? WE HAVE AN EXPERT IN THE AUDIEN TONIGHT, �
i
4 DR. JACK TURNER. DR. JACK TURNER WORKED ON BIGHORN SHEEP ;
I
5 IN THE SA' TA ROSA MOUNTAINS A DOZEN OR SO YEARS AGO . HE �
6 WAS ONE OF THE FIRST SCIENTISTS TO DISCOVER THAT THE SANTA
I
7 ROSA BIGHORN SHEEP HERD WAS DISEASED . HE WAS ONE OF THE I
8 SCIENTISTS THAT WORKED WITH THE LIVING DESERT RESERV� AND
9 MR . DICK WEAVER TO DEVELOP HOLDING FACILITIES AT THE
10 LIVING DESERT.
11 AND I ' VE ASKED DR. TURNER TO COME AND JUST GIVE
12 A FEW -- TWO MINUTES , THREE MINUTES RENDITION ON WHAT ARE
13 THE REAL IMPACTS OF THIS PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT TO WILD AND
14 FREE-ROAMING BIGHORN SHEEP IN THE SANTA ROSA MOUNTAINS . �
15 DR. TURNER, WOULD YOU PLEASE.
16 DR. TURNER: THANK YOU , STEVE .
17 ALTHOUGH I CAME IN FROM HOUSTON , TEXAS , I AM A
18 LOCAL BOY . AND, SAY , TWO OR THREE MINUTES IN HOUSTON, I
19 WOULD SAY JL'ST , "HOWDY . " YOU KNOW, IT TAKES THAT LOPIG .
20 IN TERMS OF BEING FROM THIS AREA, MY
21 GRANDMOTHER MET MY GRANDFATHER AT THE SAN GOR ,NIO INN .
22 MY MOTHER WAS RAISED IN BANNING . AND I SPENT E Y� ' =tS
23 IN PALM DESERT THAN I CARE TO THINK ABOUT, WORK G� :� I
24 BIGHORN SHEEP. I DID THE WORK WITH bIY -- FOR M� JCTGRAL
25 WORK FOR THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AND, BECAUSE OF
26 OBLIG�TIONS , LIKE I HAD TO FEED A FAMILY , $125 A MOrlTH
33
10 1 JUST DIDN ' T CUT IT , AND I HAD TO FIND REAL WORK.
2 I ' VE BEEN ASKED TO COMMENT A LITTLE BIT ABOUT .
�
3 SHEEP HABITAT AND BIGHORNS AND THE SANTA ROSA MOUNTAINS .
4 AND THE FIRST THING I SHOULD SAY IS , JUST BECAUSE A SHEEP '
�
5 WALKS ON A PIECE OF GROUND DOESN ' T MAKE IT SHEEP HABITAT .
6 IF THAT WERE TRUE, WE ' VE GOT A LOT OF HOUSE TRAILERS IN
7 PALM SPRINGS THAT ARE SITTING ON SHEEP HABITAT RIGHT JUST
8 OUTSIDE OF TAHQUITZ-MC CALLUM BOULEVARD. I
9 WE ' VE GOT SHEEP WALKING OUT 30 MILES FROM TH�
10 NEAREST KNOWN BIGHORN SHEEP POPULATIONS . SHEEP TEND TO
11 WANDER. NORMALLY , IT ' S THE MALES THAT TEND TO WANDER, BUT
12 WE DO GET SOME WANDERING IN THE FEMALES , OR THE EWES .
13 JUST BECAUSE SHEEP ARE SIGHTED IN AN AREA, REGARDLESS OF
�
14 THE REASON WHY THEY ' RE DRAWN INTO THAT AREA OR JUST
15 BECAUSE THEY ' RE OUT TAKING A WALK, DOESN ' T MAKE IT
16 HABITAT .
17 THEN WHAT DOES? THERE ARE A SERIES OF CRITERIA �
18 THAT WE HAVE USED FOR A LARGE NUMBER OF YEARS IN !
I
19 DELINEATING WHAT GOOD HABITAT IS AND ISN ' T, AND I ' M NOT
20 ABOUT TO SIT DOWN AND START TALKING TO YOU ABOUT WHAT
21 THOSE CRITERIA ARE . THOSE ARE FOR YOUR SURVEY IN THE
22 DOCUMENTS THAT YOU HAVE .
23 I WILL SAY THAT IT IS SIGNIFICANT THAT THE
24 BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT GRANTED THE PROPERTY THAT THE
� 25 BIGHORN INSTITUTE NOW SITS ON. THEY GAVE IT TO THEM .
26 THAT SUGGESTS THAT THE PROPERTY WAS NOT OF VALUE WITHIN
34 j
10 1 THEIR BIGHORN MANAGEMENT PROGRAM . AND SIMILARL'Y , BECAUSE
2 THE CALIFORNIA DEPIIRTMENT �E' FISfI 11N� GI�MR 11I,S0 M1�DE TFiE
3 STIPULATION THAT THE BIGHORN FACILITIES HAD '� � BE PLACED �
4 IN A LOCATION WHICH WAS OUTSIDE BIGHORN HABITAT . '
5 THAT IS TO SAY WHERE NO BIGHORN SHEEP -- WILD, ,
6 FREE—RANGING BIGHORN SHEEP WOULD COME INTO CONTACT WITH
7 POTENTIALLY DISEASED SHEEP, WHICH IS THE REASON WHY THE i
;
8 INSTITUTE IS THERE , IS TO DISCOVER THE REASON FOR TH:: i
'
9 DE^LINE. THAT INDEED, BY THE VIRTUE OF THE'`. OBTAIN L THE !
i
10 LAND, THE BIGHORI�t INSTITUTE SITS ON NO IMPORTANT BIG'r.JRN I
11 HABITAT.
i
i
12 THE EVALUATION THAT I MADE GAVE A RATHER I
13 LIBERAL APPROACH TO IT, AND IT WAS EVALUATED AS HABITAT
i
14 THAT WAS NOT IMPORTANT TO BIGHORN SHEEP. MARGINAL �
15 HABITAT, AS IT ' S GENERALLY REFERRED T0 .
16 THERE HAS BEEN AN ARGUr•1EidT PROJECTED THAT
17 MARGINAL HABITAT IS IMPORTANT TO BIGHORN SHEEP, AND THE
11
18 SITE OF DEATH VALLEY WAS GIVEN AS AN EXAMPLE , WHERE WELLS '
19 AND WELLS DID SOME WORK THERE AND FOUND THAT SHEEP MOVED '
I
20 INTO MARGINAL HABITAT AT A TIME WHEN THEIR OWN NATIVE OR
21 MORE APPROPRIATE HABITAT WAS LESS THAN ADEQUATE .
22 I MUST LOOK AT THAT COMPARISON A LITTLE BIT ,
23 BECAUSE DEATH VALLEY AND PALM DESERT ARE TWO DIFFERENT i
24 PIECES OF GROUND. FIRST OF ALL, WHAT WE HAVE IN THE SANTA
25 ROSA MOUNTAINS ARE NOT TRUE DESERT CONDITIOKS . WE HAVE �"
26 WHAT IS CALLED AN OROGRAPHIC DESEP.T OR A RAIN—SHADOWED
t
�
35 '
11 1 DESERT SLOPE ON A PENINSULAR OR COASTAL RANG� , A FAR CRY
2 FROM WHAT IS FOUND IN DEATH VALLEY .
� 3 I WOULD SOONER TAKE A HOT DAY IN PALM DESERT '
4 THAN A HOT DAY IN DEATH VALLEY , AP1D I DOPd ' T THINK THERE
5 WOULD BE ANYBODY HERE THAT WOULD TAKE THAT EXCEPTIO� . :
i
6 THERE ARE VAST DIFFERENCES . THE WORST DAY IN PALM DESERT II
i
7 OR IN THE SHEEP HABITAT ABOVE PALM DESERT IS NOWHERES !
;
8 CLOSE TO A BAD DAY -- OR EVEN A GOOD DAY , FOR THAT
9 MATTER -- IN DEATH VALLEY . �
i
10 THE SANTA ROSA MOUNTAINS HOUSE, OR USED TO i
�
11 HOUSE, A FAIR NUMBER OF SHEEP. IN FACT, IT WAS THE ;
12 DENSEST POPULATION OF BIGHORN SHEEP IN THE STATE OF �
�
13 CALIFORNIA, NOT ONLY IN TERMS OF DENSITY , BUT IN TERMS OF
� 14 TOTAL NUMBERS .
15 UNFORTUNATELY , MOST OF THE LITERATURE THAT
16 TALKS ABOUT LOSE AN ACRE , LOSE A SHEEP ARE DATED FROP� THAT
17 ERA. AND INDEED, AT THE TIME IT WAS TRUE ; AT THE PRESENT .
18 TIME IT IS NOT . WE NO LONGER HAVE THOSE HEALTHY , THRIFTY i
19 POPULATIONS . MARGINAL HABITAT IS NO LONGER OF THE �
�
20 IMPORTANCE TO DESERT BIGHORNS THAT IT PERHAPS Or10E WAS IN
21 THE EARLY ' S0S AND PERHAPS EVEN EXTENDING INTO THE ' 605 .
22 THE SHEEP THAT ARE TALKED ABOUT WITHIN THE
23 INFORMATION THAT YOU 'VE BEEN GIVEN VARY IN TWO VERY
24 IMPORTANT RESPECTS .
� 25 ONE , THEY ARE SANTA ROSA SHEEP, AND NOT ROCKY I
I
�
26 MOUNTAIN OR OTHER DESERT BIGHORN SHEEP . IT HAS BEEN NOTED I
i
36
11 1 IN MAr1Y PUBLICATIONS , IN PARTICULAR THE BOOK ON DESERT '
BIGHCRN SHEEP, THAT THE SAN`I'A ROS11 SEiEEP ARE MORE OF A
3 CHUMMY GROUP . THAT IS TO SAY THEY ARE A CURIOUS G p � i
4 RATHER THAN ONE WHICH IS HIGHLY SPOOKED OR AV:: �JINU
I
;
i
5 POPULATIONS . (
6 I 'M NOT SAYING THAT THEY ARE DRAWN TO
7 POPULATIONS . WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT THEY DO NOT APPEAR
8 TO BE AS STRESSED AS OTHER POPULATIONS OF BIGHORN SHEEP,
9 G -VEN THE SAME PARAMETERS . I
10 AND, INDEE�� THE G�rFERENCES BETWEEN CAPTURED
:1 AND FREE-RANGING SHEEP ARE VASTLY DIFFERENT -- THINK OF
12 YOURSELF LOCKED INTO A BOX -- AS OPPOSED TO SHEEP RANGING
13 FREE . BUT IN MANY RESPECTS , THE SHEEP IN THE SANTA ROSAS
14 ARE LOCKED INTO A BOX . �
15 IN CLOSING, ALL I WOULD LIKE TO SAY IS THAT
16 FROM OUR STANDPOINT -- AND I BASE THIS ON A REASONABLE
17 NUMBER OF YEARS OF EXPERIENCE AN'J ALSO FIRSTHAND PERSONAL
18 CONTACT WITH BIGHORN SHEEP THROUGH A NUMBER OF YEARS --
19 THAT THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT AT THIS TIME POSES NO MAJOR
20 PROBLEMS AT ALL FOR THE BIGHORNS THAT ARE IN THE SANTA
21 ROSAS . ANY TRANSIENT SHEEP THAT MOVE ACROSS IT ARE MERELY
22 LOOKING FOR -- IN THE CASE OF A RUTTING SEASON , LOOKING
23 FOR A HOME OR LOOKING FOR A FRIENli . BUT IN MANY PLACES ,
24 MERELY JUST �OKING. THE POPULATION IS A FAR CRY FROM
25 WHAT IT USED TO BE , EVEN AT A TIME WHEN I WORKED IN THE �r
26 RANGE .
37 �,
11 1 THANK YOU .
2 MR. CARUTHERS : THANK YOU VERY MUCH , JACK .
� 3 THAT WAS THE THIRD ISSUE . I REALLY FEEL THAT
4 WE 'VE DEALT -- OR WE DON ' T HAVE TORTOISES . WE ' RE GOING TO
5 BE DEALING WITH THE DESERT WASH HABITAT PER THE CONDITIONS ;
6 OF FISH AND WILDLIFE , ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS , AND GAME
7 AND FISH . i
8 IF THAT WERE BIGHORN SHEEP HABITAT ON '
9 MR. HAYHOE ' S LAND, THE ADJACEHT LAND WHERE THE BIGHORN '
10 INSTITUTE NOW SITS WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN GIVEN TO THE ;
11 DESERT BIGHORN INSTITUTE , BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION . '
i
12 THE FOURTH ISSUE AND LAST ISSUE , THEN, IS : �
i
13 WHAT ARE THE IMPACTS TO THE BIGHORN SHEEP ACTIVITY -- THE i
� 14 ACTIVITIES AT THE BIGHORN SHEEP INSTITUTE?
15 AND I WANT TO SAY THIS FOR MR. HAYHOE AND THE
16 REST OF THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY HERE . AND I ' VE WORKED
17 IN THIS TOWN FOR -- FOR ABOUT THREE YEARS , NOW, ON VARIOUS
18 DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS . EVERYBODY IS IN SUPPORT OF THE
19 ACTIVITIES THAT GO ON AT THE DESERT BIGHORN SHEEP
20 INSTITUTE. WE ' RE ALL IN SUPPORT OF FINDING A CURE TO THE �
21 DISEASE THAT HAS RAVAGED THESE POPULATIONS .
22 BUT FOR THE SITUATIOI� TO EXIST WHERE TWO OR
i
23 300 FEET OR FIVE OR 600 FEET IN TERMS OF A DEVELOPMENT �
I
24 BOUNDARY , IF THAT WERE TO MAKE THE DIFFERENCE ON AN ANIMAL '
;
� 25 THAT CAN SEE AND HEAR FAR BETTER THAN MOST ANIr1ALS IN THE I
26 ANIMAL KINGDOM TODAY , IT IS SIMPLY LUDICROUS TO BELIEVE
38
11 1 THAT IT IS THAT DEVELOPMENT .
2 Ar1D THE DEVELOPME�T THAT WE HAVE PROPOSED HERF
�
3 HAS BEEN DESIGNED WITH THE ATTITUDE IN MIND OF MINIMIZING
4 POTEKTIAL IMPACTS TO THE BIGHORN SHEEP INSTITUTE . WE HAVE
5 BENT OVER BRCKWARDS TO TRY AND MAKE THIS AN ACCEPTABLE
6 PROGRAM, AND WE REALLY FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT AT THIS STAGE
7 THAT THERE IS NOTHING -- THE DISAGREEMENT AMONG EXPERTS IS
8 THERE . IT ' S VERY CLEAR. AND MS . ADAMS MENTIONED THAT
9 EARLIER. WE FEEL THAT THE EXPERTS THAT WE HAVE ASSEMBLED
10 HAVE DEMONSTRATED THAT THERE WILL BE NO IMPACTS TO THE
11 DESERT BIGHORN SHEEP ACTIVITIES AS A RESULT OF THIS
12 DEVELOPMEHT .
12
13 AND I THANK YOU VERY MUCH .
�
14 MR. WHITE : THANK YOU, STEVE .
15 ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WE WERE VERY PLEASED
16 WITH THIS E . I . R. AND GIVE IT OUR FULL SUPPORT IS BECAUSE
17 IT CONTAINS SOME NEW STORIES THAT WEREN ' T TOLD BEFORE AS A
18 RECOGNIZED AND IMPORTANT PART OF THIS PROCESS , AND THAT IS
19 LAND USE HISTORY OF THE PROJECT AND HOW IT GOT HERE .
20 IN ORDER TO MAKE SOME BRIEF STATEMENTS ON THAT,
21 WE HAVE MR . RICHARD ZEILENGA HERE, WHO ' S BEEN TRACKING
22 SOME OF THOSE ISSUES FOR US .
23 RICK.
24 MR. ZEILENGA: GOOD EVENING, MADAM CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS
25 OF THE COMMISSION, STAFF . MY NAME IS RICHARD ZEILENGA . �
26 I ' M AN ATTORI�IEY WITH THE LAW FIRM OF DE CASTRO , WEST,
39 �
12 1 CHODOROW AND BURNS , LOCATED IN LOS ANGELES , AT
2 10960 WILSHIRE BOULEVARD .
�r+ 3 I WORK WITH MR. MARVIN BURNS , WHO APPEARED
4 BEFORE YOU OVER A YEAR AGO , I GUESS , AND GAVE YOU SOME
5 EXTENSIVE COMMENTS AND 6�ENT THROUGH A DETAILED HISTORY ON
6 SOME OF THE ISSUES INVOLVED IN THE DISPUTE BETWEEN THE
7 INSTITUTE AND THE APPLICANT AND SOME OF THE HISTORY OF THE
8 ZONING ISSUES .
9 IT HAD BEEN MY INTENTION HERE TONIGHT TO MAKE
10 SOME DETAILED COMMENTS ON THAT HISTORY ; ON THE HISTORY OF
11 THE ZONING OF THE APPLICANT ' S PROPERTY ; THE HISTORY OF THE
12 ZONING OK THE INSTITUTE ' S PROPERTY ; THE INSTITUTE ' S
13 DECISION TO LOCATE WHERE IT DID, THE FACTORS THAT WENT
�` 14 INTO THAT DECISION ; THE INSTITUTE ' S DECISION TO LOCATE ITS
�
i
15 PENS WHERE IT DID, RIGHT NEXT TO THE BORDER OF ITS ;
16 PROPERTY WITH ITS NEIGHBORS ' PROPERTY ; AND TO SPEND SOME
17 BRIEF TIME DISCUSSING THE ASSURANCES THAT WERE MADE BY THE
18 INSTITUTE TO ITS NEIGHBORS , TO THE CITY, AND TO RIVERSIDE
19 COUNTY WHEN THE INSTITUTE SOUGHT TO GET ITS PROJECT
20 APPROVED FOR A ZONE CHANGE AND FOR ITS BIG BUILDING
21 PROGRAM; AND HOW THOSE ASSURANCES WERE MISLEADING AND VERY
22 UNFAIR, BOTH TO THIS CITY , TO THE APPLICANT HERE TONIGHT,
23 AND TO RIVERSIDE COUNTY, WHO WE BELIEVE WAS DUPED INTO
24 APPROVIKG THE PROJECT THAT IT DID.
�,,, 25 BUT HAVING REVIEWED THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT
26 REPORT , AS IT ' S BEEN FINALLY PREPARED, PARTICULARLY THE
40
12 1 LAND USE SECTION , I CAK TELL YOU THAT MOST OF THAT WORK
2 THAT I WrS GOING TO GO OVER WITH YOU TONIGHT HAS BEEN
3 DONE . Ai:_. IT ' S BEEN DONE IN AN EXCELLENT FASHION , IT H�'
4 BEEN DONE VERY WELL.
5 AT PAGES 146 TO 150 OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT
6 REPORT , WHICH IS THE LAND USE SECTION, THAT ' S PAGES 146 TO
7 150 , FOUR SHORT PAGES IN THE DOCUMENT. AND IT ' S A LENGTHY
8 DOCUMENT . BUT FOUR SHORT PAGES CLEARLY CRYSTALIZE THE
9 ISSUE OF FAIRNESS WITH RESPECT TO THIS PROJECT.
10 AND BY "FAIRNESS , " I MEAN THE HTSTORY OF THE
11 ZONI2�1G , : :�E HISTORY OF THE INSTITUTE ' S DECISION TO LOCATE
12 WHERE IT DID, THE HISTORY OF THE INSTITUTE ' S DECISION TO
13 LOCATE ITS PEIJS WHERE IT DID, RIGHT NEXT TO ITS BORDER
14 WITH ITS NEIGHBORS AS OPPOSED TO SOME SITE MORE INTERNAir�
15 TO THE INSTITUTE , SOME SITE THAT WOULD HAVE PERMITTED THE
16 IHSTITUTE TO MITIGATE ON ITS OWN LAND WHATEVER PERCEIVED
17 COMPLAINTS OR PROBLEMS IT HAS WITH THIS PROJECT.
18 THE DISCUSSION, AS I SAY, ON THOSE PAGES HAS
19 VERY , VERY CLEARLY SET OUT THOSE FAIRNESS ISSUES , AND IT ' S
20 REALLY DONE AN EXCELLENT JOB OF TRACING THE HISTORY . RND
21 I COMMEND THOSE PAGES TO YOU FOR READING .
22 I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE A MOMENT TO JUST READ TO
23 YOU A SHORT PARAGRAPH WHICH APPEARS IN THE CONCLUSION OF
24 THAT FOUR-PAGE SEC; =ON, WHICH I THINK GIVES YOU SOME SEPISE
25 OF WHAT THAT FAIRNESS ISSUE IS ALL ABOUT. AND THAT
�
26 PARAGRAPH STATES :
41
12 1 "OC1 THE BASIS OF THE FOREGOING
2 DISCUSSION, AS SUPPORTED IN THE REFERENCE
�, 3 RECORD, IT CANNOT BE CO�ICLUDED THAT THE
4 DEVELOPMEI�T OF THE ALTAMIRA SITE TO ITS
5 BOUNDARY WAS CONSIDERED INCOMPATIBLE
6 WITH THE OPERATION AND SUCCESS OF B . H . I .
7 (THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE) , AS A LAND USE
8 MATTER. B . H. I . WAS IN FIRST POSITIOI�I IN
9 TERMS OF MRKING SUCH A DETERMINATION IN
10 CONNECTIOrI WITH ITS SELECTION OF THE
11 SITE AND, SPECIFICALLY, THE PEN LOCATIONS .
12 TO THE EXTENT INCOMPATIBILITIES NOW EXIST,
13 THEY MAY BE CONSIDERED SELF-IMPOSED BY
� 14 B. H . I . , SINCE IT IS A MANMADE OPERATION
15 WITH THE FIRST CHOICE OF SITE FOR
16 OPERATIONS . IT WAS REASONABLY FORESEEABLE
17 THAT RESIDENTIAL USES WOULD LOCATE
18 ADJACENT TO B . H . I . AT ITS BORDER, AND THE
19 PROXIMITY OF THAT USE MUST BE CONCLUDED
20 TO HAVE BEEN TAKEN II�1T0 COI�ISIDERATION IN
i�
�
21 SITE SELECTION. "
�
22 AND THAT ' S THE END OF THE PARAGRAPH . AND I CAN '
23 TELL YOU, BASED ON CERTAIN LAWSUITS THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE i
24 OKGOING WITH THE INSTITUTE AND BASED ON SOME DISCOVERY -- '
25 COURT-ORDERED DISCOVERY THAT WE ' VE TAKEN IN THOSE
I
�
26 LAWSUITS , THAT IT HAS BECOME CLEAR THAT THE BIGHORN
42
12 1 INSTITUTE AND ITS E:{ECUTIVE DIRECTOR WERE AWARE OF WHAT
2 THE Z - ;� � WAS ON THEIR PROPERTY , THAT IT WAS RESIDENTZAL,
3 AND �� '�' WRS PLANNED IN THE SURROti ,�ING 'EA : EVEN ''uCH�y
4 MORE EXT=`1SIVE AND INTENSE DEVELC:MENT THrN IS PROPOSED BY
5 THIS APPLICANT .
6 Ar1D , THEREFORE , I THINK CLEARLY , ON THE
7 FAIRNESS ISS v , IF YOU L�OK AT WHAT IS EQUITABLE , WHAT
13
8 MAKES SENSE , IT IS CLEAR THAT T?�"S PROJECT SHOULD BE
9 APPROVED. AND WE SHOULD NOT LE': 'HE INSTITUTE , WHO CHOSE
10 ITS CURRENT SITE , WHO LOCATED ITS PENS WHERE IT DID, TO
11 NOW COME FORWARD AND TRY TO RECUT THE DEAL, TO CHANGE THE
12 SITUATION FROM WHAT IT KNEW WAS GOING TO EXIST WHEN IT
13 PICKED ITS SITE .
14 THANK YOU VERY MUCH . �
15 (APPLAUSE . )
16 MR. WHITE : THANK YOU, RICK. YOU HAVE MY APPLAUSE ON
17 THAT ONE , ALSO .
18 THAT BRINGS US TO A PART OF OUR PRESENTATION
19 WHICH I ' M SURE YOU 'VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR AND WILL BE
20 GLAD TO HEAR IT. IT ' S CALLED THE CLOSE.
21 I WANT TO THANK THE COMMISSION VERY MUCH FOR
22 THEIR ATTENTION THIS EVENING, AND CERTAINLY FOR OUR
23 PROJECT TEAM FOR PUTTING ALL THE EFFORT TI?EY HAVE HERE IN �
�
24 THE PROJECT FOR SUCH A LONG PERIOD OF TIME .
25 I DO HAVE A COUPLE LAST POINTS THAT I WOULD
� i
26 LIKE TO CALL TO THE COMMISSION ' S ATTENTION AND THEN A �
i
43
13 1 P�ATTER OF QUICK BUSINESS .
2 WE HAVE HIRED THE COACHELLA VALLEY COPdVENTION
� 3 BUREAU ' S FINANCIAL CONSULTANT TO PREPARE A FINANCIAL STUDY
4 OF THE IMPACT OF THIS PROJECT ON THE CITY OF PALM DESERT
5 AND THE SL'RROUNDING COMMUNITIES . WE FURNISHED THAT STUDY
6 TO THE CITY .
7 AND WHAT IT SHOWS IS THAT THIS IS INDEED A VERY
8 BIG PROJECT . IT WILL RETURN TO THIS COMMUNITY , IN
9 CONSTRUCTION DOLLARS AND RESIDENT SPENDING AND SECONDARY
10 SPENDING , OVER A TEN—YEAR PERIOD, OF ONE BILLION DOLLARS .
11 THE SECOND POINT I ' D LIKE TO MAKE , CLEARLY , IS
12 THAT THE PROJECT WE ' RE PROPOSING IS THE LOW—DENSITY
13 ALTERNATIVE FOR THIS SITE . THE EXISTING ZONING ON THE
�ir 14 PROPERTY , IF BUILT TO ITS CAPACITY , WOULD ALLOW 1350
15 USES -- 1350 UNITS , EXCUSE ME .
16 THE PROJECT , AS IT ' S CURRENTLY CONFIGURED,
17 ALL06JS THE CONSTRUCTION OF AN 18—HOLE CHAMPIONSHIP GOLF
18 COURSE . IF LAND IS TAKEN AWAY FROM THE PROJECT IN
19 SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNTS MORE THAN WE ' RE SHOWING HERE , IT WOULD
20 MAKE A GOLF COURSE IMPOSSIBLE TO DO ECONOMICALLY .
21 WE HAVE THAT EVIDENCE FURNISHED IN THE E . I . R.
22 IF THAT WERE THE CASE , THE ALTERNATIVE WOULD BE SOMEWHERE
23 AROUND FIVE TO 700 LOTS , WITH THE ASSOCIATED ADDITIONAL
24 IMPACTS OF TRAFFIC AND POLLUTION AND CONJESTION THAT WOULD
�
25 OCCUR. WE DO BELIEVE THIS IS THE LOW DENSITY ALTERNATIVE
26 AND THE ONE THAT SHOULD BE CHOSEN BY THE CITY OF PALM
� 44
13 1 DESERT .
2 I ALSO WANT TO MAKE A B ' NOTE THAT THIS
3 PRO�ECT HERE DOES MAKE SOME USE OF _.�E DEL GAGNON "'�
4 PROPERTY . AND IF THAT PROPERTY AT THE LOWER LEFT-HAND
5 CORNER OF THAT MAP IN FRONT OF YOU BLANKED ANYMOpE , THE
6 CITY COULD BE FACING SOME POTENTIAL BLANKING ISSUES AND
7 INVERSE CONDEMNATION . THAT ' S A MATTER FOR MR. DEL GAGNON �
8 TO RAISE .
9 AND WE ALSO DO HAVE SOME BROAD COM:•1UNITY
10 SUPPORT FROM ALL OF THE BUSINESS ORGAN�:ZATIONS AND SERVICE
11 ORGANZZATIOI�S THAT WE ' VE CONTACTED AND, CERTAINLY , THE
12 RESIDENTS WHO ARE HERE THIS EVENING. '
13 NOW THE MATTER OF BUSINESS . DEPENDING UPON THE i
(
14 DECISIOK OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION HERE THIS EVENING, TI� i
I
15 MITIGATION MEASURES CONTAINED IN THE E . I . R. MAY OR MAY NOT
I
16 BE APPROPRIAT� . NOW, I ' VE WRITTEN A LETTER, DATED MAY �
17 20TH AND PRESENTED TO MR. PHIL JOY , DETAILING SOME OF THE
18 REQUESTS THAT WE HAVE TO CHANGE THOSE MITIGATION
19 CONDITIONS .
20 THEY DEAL WITH THE CONSTRUCTION OF AN 8-FOOT
21 WALL AROUND THE PROJECT, WHICH, VISUALLY , IF YOU CAN
22 IMAGINE AN 8-FOOT WALL GOING UP AND AROUND THE PROJECT ,
23 COULD BE CERTAINLY TERRIBLE , DEPENDING UPON WHERE IT WOULD
24 BE PUT AND WHAT THE COMMISSION ' S FINAL DECISION WAS .
25 AT,SO , DEPENDING UPON ITS FINAL LOCATION , IT � ;
i
26 COULD PRESENT SOME SEVERE PROBLEMS IN HANDLING THE j
�
45
13 1 DRAIrlAGE TO THIS SITE BECAUSE , AS YOU KNOW , THE UPPER END
2 OF THAT SITE IS VERY , VERY IRREGULAR . AND YOU CERTAINLY
3 CANNOT PUT A CONCRETE BLOCK WALL ACROSS A WASH AREA AND
�
4 EXPECT IT TO PRSS WATER IN SOME FORM.
5 AND IF YOU LEAVE OPENINGS THROUGH THAT 6dALL, IT
6 CERTAINLY DOES NOT DO WHAT ' S PdECESSARY THAT THE E . I . R.
7 CONSULTANT THINKS -- EXCUSE ME . NOT THE CONSULTANT, BUT
8 THE BIOLOGY REPORT THINKS WOULD DO TO PREVENT FREE—RANGING
9 PESTS AND COYOTES AND EXCHANGE OF ANIMAL WILDLIFE ACROSS
10 THAT BARRIER .
11 THE OTHER THITIG IT TALKS ABOUT IS LIMITATION OF
12 GRADING AND CONSTRUCTION . THERE ' S ONE VERY SEVERE
13 CONDITION IN THERE , CONDITION 14 , THAT PURPORTS TO
14 PROHIBIT GRADING AND CONSTRUCTION IN TOTALZTY SIX MONTHS
�
15 OF THE YEAR.
16 GIVEN THE SEASONAL NATURE OF THE BUSINESS
17 COMMUNITY AKD REAL ESTATE MARKETS HERE IN THIS DESERT,
18 THAT WOULD FORCE US INTO A POSITION WHERE WE WOULD BUILD
19 THE PROJECT IN ONE YEAR AND HAVE TO SELL IT IN ANOTHER.
20 THAT ' S JUST ECONOMICALLY UNVIABLE . WE ASK THAT THAT
21 CONDITION BE DELETED .
22 THERE ' S ALSO OTHER CONDITIOI�IS , FOR EXAMPLE ,
23 THAT REQUIRE THAT THE GOLF COURSE BE IRRIGATED BY AN
24 UNDERGROUND IRRIGATION SYSTEM. I DON ' T KNOW HOW YOU
25 IRRIGATE TURF ON A GOLF COURSE THROUGH AN UNDERGROUND
�
26 SYSTEM. I THINK THAT THE WAY THE CONDITIOK IS WRITTEK,
46 ;
13 1 IT ' S TECHNOLOGICALLY INFEASIBLE . '
2 WE REQUESTED THAT THAT CONDITION BE RE�dRITTEN
3 TO SHOW THAT DRIP IRRIGATION BE USED WHERE FEASIB� ON TI�
4 GOLF COURSE AREAS WHERE IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE, NOT
5 THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE PROJECT .
6 THERE ' S ABOUT FIVE MORE CONDITIONS WHICH ARE
7 SUMMARIZED IN MY MEMO . I ' D ASK THAT IF YOU DO APPROVE THE
8 PROJECT TONIGHT -- I HOPE YOU WILL -- THAT YOU INCORPORATE
9 THIS MEMO IN YOUR RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY COUNCIL. AND
10 I HOPE PHIL HAS GIVEN YOU COPIES THAT YOU MIGHT REVIEW FOR
11 YOUR RECORDS THERE . �
14 '
12 AND WITH THAT , THAT BRINGS US TO THE CLOSE . IF
i
�
13 YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS , WE ' LL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO ANSWER ±
�
14 THEM. AND WE WILL CERTAINLY BE HERE FOR ANY QUESTIONS �
15 THAT COME UP THROUGH THE EVENING OR, ALSO, IF YOU WISH
16 REBUTTAL. MR. HAYH�E RESERVES CLOSING REMARKS , AND HE ' D
17 "KE TO TALK TO YOU AGAIN AT TH END OF THE SESSION . i
18 THANK YOU VERY MUCH .
19 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: DID YOU HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ,
20 MR . JONATHAK?
21 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : YEAH. I JUST -- DO YOU HAVE
22 SOMEONE THAT COULD POINT OUT -- THERE WAS A GOOD AERIAL
23 PHOTO THAT SHOWED THE AREA . DO YOU HAVE SOMEONE THAT C.�N
24 POINT OUT WHERE THE LAMBING PEH IS IN RELATION TO THE
25 PROJECT ON THAT AERIAL?
�
26 MR. WHITE : IT WOULD BE VERY EASY . LET ME CHANGE
47
14 1 EXHIBITS HERE .
2 HOW ' S THAT? HOW ABOUT IF I PUT THIS SIDE BY
3 SIDE?
�
4 CAN YOU ALL SEE IT DOWN HERE?
5 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK : I CAN ' T SEE IT .
6 MAYBE IT WILL SIT IN THE CHAIR, RON, IF THE --
7 THIS CHAIR HERE .
8 MR. WHITE : I WANT YOU TO GO AHEAD AND COMPARE THE
9 TWO .
10 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : IT ' S -- THE CIRCLED AREA IS
11 THE --
12 MR. WHITE : THIS IS THE EXISTING LAMBING PEN.
13 COMMISSIONER JONATHAK : THE PEN ITSELF.
14 THANK YOU .
�
15 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : WHAT ' S THE CLOSEST AREA THERE,
16 WHERE THAT CORNER IS , TO THE LAMBING PEN?
17 MR. WHITE : AT THIS SCALE , I ' D SAY THAT THE DIMENSION
18 BETWEEN THE PEN AND THE PROPERTY CORNER IS ABOUT 100 FEET.
19 ON THIS MAP HERE , THE CLOSEST DEVELOPMENT OF
20 HOMES TO THE INSTITUTE ' S FENCE IS APPROXIMATELY -- I ' D SAY
21 300 YARDS , AND THAT WOULD BE RIGHT ABOUT HERE .
22 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : THANK YOU.
23 CHAIRMAH WHITLOCK : ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS -- ANY
24 OTHER QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME?
25 THEN I ' LL ASK IF THERE ' S ANYONE PRESENT WHO
�
26 WISHES TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION IN FAVOR OF THIS PROJECT.
48
14 1 MRS . ARTZS : MADAM CHAIRMA� , MEMBERS OF THE
2 COMMISSION . GOOD EVENING . MY NAME IS NANCY E . ARTIS . I
� RESIDE AT ? -687 SPYGLASS LANE IN PALM DESERT. ,�
4 I ' M APPEARING HERE TONIGHT AS A RESIDENT OF
5 PALM DESERT, AS A HOMEOWNER IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO THE
6 PROJECT, AND AS PRESIDENT OF THE SUMMIT HOMEOWNERS
7 ASSOCIATION . AS PRESIDENT , I AM REPRESENTING 156
8 HOMEOWNERS IN THE SUMMIT .
9 OVER THE COURSE OF THIS PLANNING PROCESS , W�
10 HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE A REVIEW OF THE PROPOSED
11 PLANS AND HAVE FOUND THAT ALTA WEST TO BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR
12 WHO HAS ALWAYS BEEN WILLING TO LOOK AT OTHER POINTS OF
13 VIEW AND MODIFY THEIR OWN PLANS WHERE APPROPRIATE .
14 WE WOULD LIKE TO GO ON PUBLIC RECORD AS ;�
15 SUPPORTING THIS PROPOSAL, AS HOMEOWNERS WHO HAVE ALREADY
16 MADE A SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENT IN THIS COMMUNITY .
17 IN ADDITION, WE BELIEVE THE PROJECT OFFERS I
18 SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC AND AESTHETIC BENEFIT9 TO OUR CITY OF
19 PALM DESERT AS A WHOLE .
20 PLEASE NOTE THAT A LETTER REFLECTING A FORMAL
21 ACTION OF THE SUMMIT HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION BOARD OF
22 DIRECTORS EXPRESSES THZS POSITION AND HAS ALREADY BEEN
23 PROVIDED TO YOU.
24 THANK YOU . �
25 (APPLAUSE . )
�
26 DR. CAMPBELL: MADAM CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE I
I
49
14 1 COMMISSION . I ' M DR. PAUL CAMPBELL, PRESIDENT OF THE
2 EL PASEO BUSINESS ASSOCIATION.
`� 3 I WOULD LIKE TO READ TO YOU THIS EVENING A
4 LETTER THAT WAS DATED OCTOBER 6 , 1990 , AND SENT TO THE
5 CITY COUNCIL, FOR THE RECORD . IT SAYS :
6 "DEAR MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL:
7 "AT THE OCTOBER 4TH MEETING --
8 1990 MEETING OF THE EL PASEO BUSINESS
9 ASSOCIATION BOARD OF DIRECTORS , THE
10 MEMBERS PRESENT VOTED UNANIMOUSLY TO
11 SUPPORT THE ALTAMIRA COUNTRY CLUB
12 PROJECT AND TO CONVEY THIS MESSAGE TO
13 YOU, THE CITY COUNCIL.
�"" 14 "THE POSITION OF THE BOARD, WHICH
15 REPRESENTS ALMOST 300 MERCHANTS , WAS
16 NOT THAT OF BEING ANTISHEEP BUT, RATHER,
17 THAT THERE WAS ROOM FOR BOTH AND THAT
18 THE ALTAMIRA PROJECT SHOULD NOT BE
19 ABBREVIATED, CONSTRICTED, OR REDUCED IN
20 SCOPE BECAUSE OF THE ADJACENT PRESERVE .
21 "SOME MEMBERS OF THE BOARD DID
22 FEEL, THOUGH, THAT TI-IE BIGHORN INSTITUTE
23 HAS NOT ACTED IN GOOD FAITH WITH THE
24 COMMUNITY AND THAT THEIR COMPLAINTS WITH
�. 25 TEIE ALTAMIRA PROJECT ARE IN DIRECT
26 CONFLICT OF THE PREVIOUSLY STATED GOALS
50
14 1 OF THE INSTITUTE ITSELF .
2 "YOURS TRULY , DENNIS BECKER,
3 COCHAIRMAN, E . P . B . A . BOARD OF DIRECTORS . " ,�r
4 I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT ZN JA�UARY OF EVERY
5 YEAR , THROUGH AN ELECTION PROCESS , THERE IS A PARTIAL
6 CHANGE IN MEMBERSHIP OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF THE
7 EL PASEO BUSINESS RSSOCIATION , BUT THIS IS THE LATEST VOTE
8 THAT HAS BEEN TAKEN ON THIS MATTER.
9 THANK YOU VERY MUCH .
10 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK : THANK YOU, DR. CAMPBELL.
11 IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK IN '
i
12 FAVOR OF THIS PROJECT?
13 MR. ZANGANI : MADAM CHAIRMAN, COMMISSION. I ' M TED
14 ZANGANI , AND I LIVE AT -- WHERE DO I LIVE? 48-670 STONE�
15 CREEK LANE . I 'M IN THE INDIAN HILLS DEVELOPMENT .
16 AtTD -- EXCUSE ME -- YOU ALL HAVE A LETTER FRG..
17 OUR HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION , WE WHOLEHEARTEDLY BACK THIS
18 DEVELOPMENT. I DOtd ' T THINK THERE COULD BE ANY BETTER LAND
19 USE THAN WHAT MR. HAYHOE AND ALTAMIRA HAVE PROPOSED. AND
20 NOT ONLY FOR US , AS THE CLOSEST DEVELOPMENT TO THE
15
21 PROJECT, BUT I FEEL THAT IT WOULD BE A GREAT --
22 UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: BENEFIT .
23 MR. ZANGANI : BENEFIT . THANK YOU. -- TO THE CITY OF
24 PALM DESERT. �
25 AND I �I'HINK THE LETTER THAT NANCY ARTIS SENT
�
26 THE COMMISSION AND -- WELL, WE WHOLEHEARTEDLY• SECOND THAT
� 1
15 1 LETTER . AND I WANT TO THANK YOU .
2 (APPLAUSE . )
�w•°
3 MR. WESTON : MADAM, MEMBERS OF THE COUNSEL. MY NAME
4 IS ED LJESTON . I ' M A RESIDENT AT 43-725 CARMEL CIRCLE .
5 THAT ' S ALL I AM . I ' M A RESIDENT OF THE CITY OF
6 PALM DESERT . I AM PROGROWTH IN PALM DESERT, PROVIDED IT ' S
7 PLANNED AND ORGANIZED AND WILL ENHANCE THE NATURAL BEAUTY
8 AND THE ATTRACTABILITY OF OUR AREA .
9 I FEEL THAT THIS PROJECT MEETS THOSE CRITERIAS .
10 AND THE FACT THAT WE ARE NOT LITERALLY SLAMMING IN
11 HIGH-DENSITY , UNATTRACTABLE HOUSING IN AN AREA, THAT WE ' RE
12 TRYING TO PROMOTE THE DESERT LANDSCAPE , THE DESERT LOOK,
13 AND A CERTAIN MYSTIQUE TO ATTRACT A CERTAIN CLASS AND TYPE
14 OF INDIVIDUAL, BUSINESS , AND COMMUNITY OVERALL GENERAL
�
15 APPEARANCE .
16 I FEEL THAT THIS PROJECT REALLY SETS A
17 STATEMENT LIKE THE VINTAGE DOES , IRONWOOD DOES , AND
18 ATTRACTS THE TYPE OF PEOPLE , THE CLIENTELE , AND THE
19 OVERALL EFFECT ON THE COMMUNITY THAT I MOVED HERE FOR: A
20 FEELING OF SECURITY THAT I COULD BRING MY CHILDREN INTO
21 THIS AREA. I HAVE TWO CHILDREN IN THE SCHOOLS . I FEEL
22 THIS PROJECT, WITH A LOW DENSITY , WILL ADD A TREMENDOUS
23 REVENUE TO THE SCHOOLS , BUT WILL NOT OVERLOAD THE SCHOOLS .
24 I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT I CAN DRIVE BY THIS TYPE
25 OF A PROJECT AND LOOK AT IT AND HAVE PEOPLE COME FROM OUT
�w
26 OF TOWN WHO WILL STAY WITH ME AND ADMIRE THIS LOOK AND
52
15 1 ACTUALLY LOOK AT ME AND SAY THAT , "YOU LIVE IN A VERY NICE
2 AREA AND A WELL-PLANNED AREA. "
3 SO I PERSONALLY , AS A RESIDENT, ANL ONLY AS A�
4 RESIDENT , WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU TO PLEASE APPROVE THIS
5 PROJECT .
6 I FEEL THAT I AM NOT NECESSARILY PROGAME , I 'M
7 NOT ANTIGAME . I FEEL THAT FROM THE STATEMENTS THAT I HAVE
8 HEARD, THAT CONSIDERATION FOR THE BIGHORN SHEEP IS BEING
9 TAKEN INTO , YOU KNOW, PLAY . WE ARE NOT TRYI: _ TO TAKE
10 OVER THEIR HABITAT . THEY ARE BEING CONSIDERED. AND,
11 THEREFORE , I WOULD LIKE TO RECOMMEND, AS A CITIZEN OF THE
12 TOWN, THAT YOU PLEASE APPROVE THIS PROJECT .
13 THANK YOU .
14 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: THANK YOU. �
15 (APPLAUSE . )
16 CHAZRMAN WHITLOCK: ANYONE ELSE IN FAVOR OF THE
17 PROJECT?
18 MR. ARTIS : MADAM CHAIRMAN, GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS
19 PAT ARTIS . I LIVE AT 72-687 SPYGLASS LANE .
20 I DON 'T HAVE A CONSTITUENCY , ANY LOBBYISTS OR
21 EXPERTS TO SUPPORT MY POSITION , AND I SPEAK ONLY FOR
22 MYSELF, AS A HOMEOWNER.
23 I ' M IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO THE PROPOSED
24 PRC�JECT, AND 18 MONTHS OR TWO YEARS AGO, I WAS VERY
25 COHCERNED WHEN THIS PROJECT WAS PROPOSED, AND IT WAS
�
26 VIRTUALLY AN UNKNOWN AND POTENTIALLY A HIGH-DENSITY
53
15 1 UNKNOWN .
2 AT THAT TIME I WENT OUT LOOKING , AND I
�` 3 PURCHASED A LOT IN LA QUINTA AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO LIVING
4 IN PALM DESERT . I CALLED THIS MY FIVE-MILE BUFFER PLAN .
5 WHILE I CAN ' T TESTIFY TO THEIR EXACT
6 INTENTIONS , I FOUND THAT LOTS OF MY NEIGHBORS LIVING ALONG
7 THAT WALL THAT ' S GOING TO HAVE A FIVE-YARD SEPARATION
8 BETWEEN US APJD WHATEVER IS BUILT THERE WERE PLANNING TO DO
9 THE SAME THING .
10 BASED ON THE PROPOSED PROJECT, I PLAN TO REMAIN
11 A RESIDENT OF PALM DESERT, AND I EXPECT THAT THIS PROJECT
12 WILL INCREASE THE VALUE OF MY PROPERTY AND ALSO ENHANCE
13 THE ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH I LIVE . AND ON THAT BASIS , AS AN
"�+` 14 INDIVIDUAL, I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT YOU APPROVE IT.
15 THANK YOU VERY MUCH .
16 (APPLAUSE . )
17 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK : ANYONE ELSE?
18 MR. QUIMBY : MY NAME IS ED QUIMBY . I LIVE AT
19 48-851 NORTH VIEW DRIVE IN THE SUMMIT. MY HOME IS
20 IMMEDIATELY TO THE NORTHEASTERLY BOUNDARY OF THE PROJECT,
�
21 AND I ' M VOTING FOR YOU PEOPLE TO APPROVE THE PROJECT .
22 THANK YOU .
23 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: THANK YOU, MR. QUIMBY .
24 (APPLAUSE . )
�, 25 MR. LUNDEEN: COUNCIL, MY NAME IS PAUL LUNDEEN . I 'M
26 A PROPERTY OWNER AND BUSINESS OWNER HERE IN PALM DESERT --
54
15 1 OR AN AREA THAT ' S BECOMING PALM DESERT . IT ' ^ MOUKTAIi1
2 VIEW . _ ' S GOING TO BECOME PALM DESERT HERE `+" THE NEAR
3 FUTURE . �'
4 I JUST WANTED _O SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE PROJECT,
5 SAYING IT ' S THE TYPE OF INTELLIGENTLY PLA.'1NED PROJECT THAT
6 I BELIEVE HAS COME TO REPRESENT WHAT PALM DESERT STANDS
7 FOR.
8 THAT ' S ALL I HAVE TO SAY .
9 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK : THF,: " YOU , M" �,UNDE !.
10 (A� PLAUSE . )
11 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: IS THERE ANYONE ELSE PRESENT WHO
12 WISHES TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THIS PROJECT?
13 THEN I ' LL ASK IF ANYONE WISHES TO SPEAK IN
14 OPPOSITION. ''�
15 MR. ROBERTS : MY NAME IS KENT ROBERTS , AND I ' M THE
16 CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE . AND I WOULD
17 LIKE TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS THE PLANNING
18 COMMISSIOI�1 TONIGHT .
16
19 I HAVEN 'T MET NANCY YET, AND -- DID YOU GET MY
20 FAX THIS AFTERNOON , BY A�1Y CHAKCE? I ' M JUST ASKING OUT OF
21 THE COLD, BECAUSE I HAVEN ' T MET NANCY .
22 WE RECEIVED A COPY OF THE LETTER THAT WAS SENT
23 TO THE HOMEOWNERS , BASICALLY, IN THE SUMMIT . AND I SENT A
24 RESPONSE , BUT I DIDK ' T GET IT OUT UNTIL 3 0 ' CLOCK
25 TONIGHT -- I MEAN THIS AFTERNOON . SO I ' D LIKE T� READ �i►'
26 THAT INTO THE RECORD, BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THERE IS SOME --
55
16 1 SOME IPIACCURACIES , PERHAPS , IN THE WAY THAT THIS HAS BEEN
2 PRESENTED TO THE SUMMIT .
3 AND I ' LL JUST READ IT . IT SAYS :
�
4 "DEAR MS . ARTIS :
5 " I RECEIVED A COPY OF YOUR MAY 19TH,
6 1991 HOMEOWNERS LETTER THIS MORNING FROM
7 A PROPERTY OWNER LIVING IN THE SUMMIT .
8 "WE WOULD APPRECIATE HAVING AN
9 OPPORTUNITY TO MEET WITH YOUR BOARD OF
10 DIRECTORS IN ORDER TO PRESENT OUR VIEW-
11 POINTS AND ALSO ANSWER QUESTIONS
12 CONCERNING THE INSTITUTE AND THE
13 IMPORTANCE OF THE ALTAMIRA PROJECT.
14 "THE MAY 19TH LETTER TO HOMEOWNERS
�r
15 STATES" -- AND I ' LL JUST QUOTE --
16 "DURING THE APPROVAL PROCESS , THE
17 INSTITUTE ' S PROPOSED BUFFER REQUIREMENTS
18 HAVE GROWN FROM 400 TO 1250 YARDS AT THE
19 SOUTHERN EDGE OF THE ALTAMIRA DEVELOPMENT . "
20 "THIS STATEMENT MAY GIVE PEOPLE THE
21 WRONG IMPRESSION OF THE ACTUAL EVEKTS
22 LEADING TO TONIGHT ' S PLANNING COMMISSION
23 MEETING .
24 "NUMBER l : SIX MONTHS PRIOR TO THE
25 RELEASE OF THE MAY 1990 DRAFT E . I . R. BY
�
26 SMITH , PERONI & FOX, THE INSTITUTE
i
56
16 1 REQUESTED A MEETING OF EXPERIENCED AI�D
2 WELL—KNOWN BIGHORN EXPERTS IN ORDE� TO
3 EVALUATE THE PROPOSED ALTAMIRA DEVELOP— �
4 MENT AND ITS LONG—TERM EFFECT ON THE
5 LAMBIrdG PEN FACILITY AND THE OPIGOING
6 RESEARCH PROGRAP� OF THE INSTITUTE .
� "THAT TEAM OF EXPERTS SUBMITTED A
8 PROPOSED ENVIRONMENTAL BUFFER TO THE CITY
9 OF PALM DESERT AS SET FORTH Oi �:HIBIT 35 . "
10 AND I HA:'E A COPY OF THAT, WHI.:H WAS THE BUFFER �
11 RECOMMENDED B'L THE BIGHORN ADVISORY COMMITTEE .
12 THE SECOND ITEM IS :
;
13 "THE 1990 DRAFT E . I . R. RECOMMENDED A ;
�
14 BUFFER AREA WHICH WAS REFERRED TO AS � I
�
15 ALTERNATIVE 2 . " WHICH IS ALSO ATTACHED . �
16 "THE BUFFER AREA IN THAT PARTICULAR E . I . R. �
17 RECOMMENDATION WAS APPROXIMATELY 118 . 4
18 ACRES . THE BUFFER RAN FROM 400 YARDS , ALL
19 THE WAY TO THE NORTHERLY POF''_'IO"1 OF THE
20 PROJECT ' S PROPERTY. "
21 AFTER THAT, WE SIMPLY ALSO SAID THAT WE
22 WOULD LIKE TO CONFORM TO THAT RECOMMENDATION, AND THE TOP
23 PART :S ADDED TO OUR PREVIOUS REPORT .
24 NUMBER 4 : "THE NEW E . I . R. (WHICH WAS
25 RELEASED LESS THAN TEN DAYS AGO) , HAS A �
26 RECOMMENDED BUFFER OF APPROXI�IATELY 116 i
�
57
16 1 ACRES . THAT ' S TWO AND A HALF ACRES LESS
2 THAN THE BUFFER AREA RECOMMENDED BY THE
� 3 PREVIOUS E . I . R. THIS BUFFER RUNS FROM
4 600 YARDS TO APPROXIMATELY 1200 YARDS
5 AND IS BASED ON EXTENSIVE WORK BY THE
6 CITY ' S OWN BIOLOGICAL CONSULTANT. IN
7 SUMMARY , THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE, UNDER
8 THEIR OWN INITIATIVE, PROPOSED A BUFFER
9 AREA PRIOR TO ANY E . I . R. REPORT . WE
10 WERE ASKED TO DO SO BY MR. HAYHOE , AND
11 WE COMPLIED WITH HIS REQUEST.
12 "THERE HAVE NOW BEEN TWO E . I . R. ' S
13 COMPLETED ON THE SUBJECT PROPERTY . THE
� 14 TOTAL ACREAGE RECOMMENDED FOR AN
15 ENVIRONMENTAL BUFFER IS ALMOST IDENTICAL
16 IN BOTH E . I . R . ' S . THE BOUNDARIES HAVE
17 BEEK CHA�GED BY THE CITY ' S OWN E . I . R.
18 CONSULTANT TO REFLECT THE VIEWPOINTS OF
19 OVER 29 BIGHORN EXPERTS SURVEYED BY THE
20 E . I . R. CONSULTANT . "
21 AND THIS IS ADDRESSED TO ALL THE HOMEOWNERS
22 HERE :
23 "WE HOPE THE HOMEOWNERS OF THE
24 SUMMIT WILL RECOGNIZE THERE ARE ALWAYS
25 TWO SIDES TO MOST MAJOR ISSUES . WE
�
26 WOULD WELCOME THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN �
�
5a
16 1 OUR POSITIO� AT A TIME THAT IS CONVENIENT
2 FOR YOUR ORGANIZATION . "
3 PART OF OUR PROBLEM IS THAT WE DO NOT HAVE TH.,,�
4 RESOURCES OF THE DEVELOPER . WE ARE A NONPROFIT, AND WF_
5 WOULD APPRECIATE IT, IF MR . HAYHOE DOES WANT TO MAKE A
6 PRESENTATION TO S�MEBODY , THAT AT LEAST WE BE GIVEN THE
7 COURTESY , PERHAPS , OF SAYING WE WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT OUR
8 VIEWPOINT, BECAUSE , SINCERELY , WE BELIEVE THAT IN ANY
9 ISSUE , THERE ' S � LWAYS TWO SIDES . AND WE WOULD LIKE TO
10 HAVE RT LEAST THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THAT PRESENTATION,
11 IF WE COULD, IN THE FUTURE . THANK YOU .
12 NOW I ' LL GET BACK TO MY OTHER PART OF MY
13 SPEECH .
14 TONIGHT I AM SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF OUR BOARD ;,�
15 DIRECTORS -- OUR ENTIRE BOARD OF DIRECTORS . WE HAVE SPENT
16 A GREAT DEAL OF TIME ON THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT, TRYING TO
17 UPJDERSTAND THE RAMIFICATIONS . WE HAVE A COMMITTEE MADE UP
18 OF OUR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR JIM DE FORGE , MYSELF, AND ERNIE
19 HAHN THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS ENTIRE PROCESS ,
20 INCLUDING THE LITIGATION THAT ' S BEEN FILED AGAINST US , THE
�
21 COUNTY OF RIVERSIDE , THE DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME , AND �
22 THEIR PEOPLE . AND I PROBABLY HAVE SEVERAL HUNDRED HOURS �
i
23 OF MY OWN TIME JUST TRYING TO REVIEW THIS WHOLE PROJECT
24 SINCE DAY ONE . j
17 �
25 I DID NOTICE ON -- ON THE BACK OF THE AGENDA
�
26 THING TONIGHT THAT ONE OF THE ACTIONS THAT MAY TAKE PLACE
I
59
17 1 IS THE APPROVAL OF THE FINDINGS AS PRESENTED BY THE STAFF .
2 WE HAVEN ' T SEEN THOSE FINDINGS , AND I DON ' T THINK THEY 'VE
� 3 BEEN RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC . AND I THOUGHT THERE WAS A
4 PERIOD OF TIME WHEN PEOPLE WERE ENTITLED TO KNOW WHAT THE
5 FINDINGS WERE . SO MAYBE SOMEONE COULD HELP ME ON THAT
6 LATER ON TONIGHT .
7 THIS IS , AS I SAID, THE SECOND E . I . R. DRAFT
8 THAT HAS BEEK PREPARED ON THIS PROJECT . AND IN BOTH
9 STUDIES , IT ' S POINTED OUT THAT THIS IS NOT JUST A PALM
10 DESERT ISSUE . IT IS TRULY , TRULY A REGIONAL ISSUE .
11 THAT ' S WHY THE DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME IS
12 INVOLVED, THE U. S . FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE , THE ARMY
13 CORPS OF ENGINEERS , MANY OF YOUR NEIGHBORING CITIES WHO
� 14 HAVE SENT YOU LETTERS , AND THEIR RESIDENTS ALSO, BECAUSE
15 THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT AFFECTS THE WHOLE COACHELLA VALLEY .
16 WHETHER THE BIGHORN SHEEP REMAIN HERE OR NOT IS GOING TO
17 BE BASICALLY IN THE HANDS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND
18 THE CITY COUNCIL.
19 AT THE PARTICULAR TIME I THINK IT ' S -- I THINK
20 IT ' S DISCLOSED IN THE E . I . R. THE PENINSULAR BIGHORN SHEEP
21 ARE IN A VERY DRASTIC DECLINE . THERE ARE LESS THAN 400
22 LEFT IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. IT HAS NOT BEEN GOOD
23 NEWS . THERE HAS BEEN A 90 PERCENT DIE-OFF OF THE LAMBS
24 FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS . AND ONLY THROUGH THE PROGRAM OF
25 THE INSTITUTE HAVE WE SEEN A REPOPULATION OF THE SANTA
�r
26 ROSA MOUNTAINS .
60
17 1 Ar1D WE ARE THE ONLY ORGANIZATION THAT IS DOING
2 THZS , THE ONLY ONE AUTHORIZED TO DO SO . AND, ONCE RGAIN ,
3 IN THE E . I . R . IT STATES THAT . AND IT STATES HOW IMPORTA�
4 THIS PARTICULAR THING IS TO THE ENVIRONME�T .
5 AND I THINK WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS
6 1991 . I SERVED MY TIME ON CITY COUNCIL FOR FIVE YEARS ,
7 AND RECOGNIZE THAT IN THE 1950S AND 19605 , WE DIDN ' T HAVE
8 ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORTS . WHEN A DEVELOPER CAME INTO
9 A CITY AND SAID HE WAPITED TO BUILD, HE SIMPLY BUILT .
10 AND TODAY WE ' RE LOOKING AT A QUALITY OF LIFE ,
11 AND ALL OF A SUDDEN I THINK WE ' RE BEGINNING TO RECOGNIZE
12 THAT HAVING A NICE HOUSE , MAYBE A SECOND HOME AND ALL THE
13 THINGS THAT GO WITH IT, SOMEHOW JUST DOESN ' T HAVE QUITE
14 THE MEANING IF WE DON ' T HAVE THE ENVIRONMENT AROUND US �+�"'
15 ALSO . AND ALL OF US ARE BECOMING MORE AWARE OF IT .
16 I CAN 'T GO HOME AND HAVE TUNA ANYMORE WITHOUT
17 MY WIFE SAYICIG SOMETHING ABOUT THE DOLPHINS . I MEAN �L
18 OF THESE THINGS '.'OW ARE COMIilG FORTH, AND I THINK ALL OF
19 US HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT, ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS 1991 . AND
20 THIS IS A REGIOKAL ISSUE THAT CERTAINLY DEMANDS THE TIME
21 OF ALL OF US THAT ARE CONCERNED WITH THIS ISSUE TO MAKE
22 SURE THE PROPER DECISION IS MADE .
23 WE ARE PLEASED TO SEE THAT ONCE AGAIN mHE
24 BIOLOGICAL CONSULTANT HAS MADE THE RECOMMENDATION THAT
25 THEY HAVE . AND I WOULD JUST LIKE TO BASICALLY READ THAT � �
26 FOUR-SENTENCE OR TWO-SENTENCE SUMMARY SO THAT WE ALL KNOW
61
17 1 WHAT THE E . I . R. SAYS , BECAUSE IT ' S SUPPORTED THROUGHOUT
2 THIS WHOLE DOCUMENT . AND IT SAYS :
�
3 " FOR THE REASONS OUTLINED ABOVE IN
4 CONSIDERATION OF THE HABITUATION OR
5 NONHABITUATION OF THE SHEEP AT THE
6 INSTITUTE , THE OBSERVED SENSITIVITY OF
7 THE SHEEP AT THE INSTITUTE, AND WITH DUE
8 CONSIDERATION TO SITE-SPECIFIC
9 RECOMMENDATIONS PROVIDED BY THE BIGHORN
10 EXPERTS , THE BIGHORN ADVISORY COMMITTEE ,
11 AND THE U . S . FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE ,
12 THE CONSULTING BIOLOGIST CONCLUDES THAT
13 A BUFFER ZONE OF AT LEAST 600 YARDS ,
�
14 WHICH EXTENDS NORTHEASTERLY TO PRESERVE
15 THE VIEWSHED OF THE LAMBING AREA, IS
16 WARRANTED BETWEEN THE PROPOSED ALTAMIRA
17 DEVELOPMENT AND THE LAMBING PEN AT THE
18 BIGHORN INSTITUTE . "
19 AND IT GOES ON TO SAY :
20 "ALTHOUGH A LARGER BUFFER DISTANCE
21 WOULD BE HIGHLY BENEFICIAL, A BUFFER
22 DISTANCE AND CONFIGURATION AS SPECIFIED
23 IN THE RECOMMENDATIONS IS THAT WHICH IS '
24 NECESSARY TO PREVENT ADVERSE IMPACTS TO
�
`'�"` 25 THE BIGHORN SHEEP AT THE INSTITUTE . " ,
26 THAT ' S WHAT WE ' RE ASKING FOR YOU TO SUPPORT .
62
17 1 (APPLAUSE . )
2 MR. ROBERTS : YOU ' VE HAD TWO E . I . R. ' S . THEY
�
3 BASICALLY SAY THE SAME THING . THEY ALL CRY OUT FOR THE
4 NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF THE CEQA STANDARDS ARE
5 FOLL069ED. IT SPEAKS TO THE ENDANGERED SPECIES LAW, IT
6 SPEAKS TO THE WETLANDS/STREAMLANDS ALTERATIONS AND, ONCE
7 AGAIN, HAS A RESOUNDING AND CLEAR MESSAGE IN THIS
8 PARTICULAR E . I . R. OF WHAT THE CITY SHOULD DO REGARDING THE
9 ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS .
10 AND I GUESS IF THE STAFF, AS IT HAS IN THE
11 PAST , DOESN ' T ACCEPT IT, I GUESS WE CAN GET THREE OR FOUR
12 E . I . R. ' S UNTIL THEY FIND ONE THEY LIKE . BUT THE TRUTH IS ,
13 BOTH OF THESE E . I . R. ' S BASICALLY HAVE COME UP WITH THE
�
14 SAME BASIC CONCLUSION, AND THAT ' S WHY WE THINK THEY SHOULD
15 BE FOLLOWED.
18
16 I THINK IT ' S FAIRLY CLEAR THAT OUR GOALS ARE
17 DIFFERENT, THE TWO PARTIES THAT ARE HERE TONIGHT . THE
18 DEVELOPER, RIGHTFULLY SO , IS HERE TO MAXIMIZE PROFITS .
19 WE ' RE HERE TO PRESERVE BIGHORN SHEEP. THAT ' S IT . THAT ' S
20 OUR WHOLE LIFE . THAT ' S WHAT OUR ORGANIZATION EXISTS FOR.
21 AND TO DO THAT, WE NEED YOU TO SIMPLY MOVE ON
22 THE E . I . R. RND MOVE ON THE RECOMMENDATION BECAUSE, ONCE
23 AGAIN, IT IS HERE . AND WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE
24 EXPERTS , CERTAINLY FEEL :;EE TO D�_: SO. ONCE AGAIN, THOSE
25 ARE THE BIOLOGICAL CONSULTANTS . AND THEY LOOKED AT, ONC�
26 AGAIN, ALL OF THE EXPERTS .
63
18 , 1 ATTD AS ANDY ADAMS HAS SAID, IT IS THRT ALL OF
2 THOSE EXPERT OPINIOKS ARE HERE . AND, YES , THEY ' RE NOT ALL
`�' 3 THE SAME . BUT ONCE AGAIN, IF YOU ' RE LOOKING AT THE
4 INDEPENDENT BIGHORN EXPERTS , THOSE NOT IN A PAID POSITION
5 FROM MR. HAYHOE ' S ORGANIZATION , YOU WILL FIND THAT, ONCE
6 AGAIN, THERE IS A MAJORITY . AND THOSE COMMENTS ,
7 BASICALLY, ARE FLOWING THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE -- THE WHOLE
8 E . I . R. PROCESS .
9 IF THERE ' S ANY QUESTIONS , I ' D CERTAINLY BE
10 HAPPY TO TRY AND ANSWER SOME OF THEM.
11 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : I WANT TO ASK YOU: HOW LONG
12 HAVE YOU BEEN INVOLVED? YOU MENTIONED IT, AND I DIDN ' T
13 QUITE HEAR .
�"` 14 MR. ROBERTS : I 'VE BEEN THE PRESIDENT THREE OUT OF
15 THE LAST FOUR YEARS . IT ' S ALMOST LIKE I CAN ' T GET OUT OF
16 THE JOB.
17 AND BEFORE THAT -- IN FACT, I WAS AT THE
18 FOUNDING MEETING . DR. JENNER IS NOT HERE. HE ' S ONE OF
19 THE VETERINARIANS THAT ' S ON OUR BOARD. BUT WHEN THIS
20 WHOLE ORGANIZATION STARTED, TRUTHFULLY , I JUST SAID, "I '
21 JUST DON 'T HAVE THE TIME . "
22 THEY WERE TACKLING THE WORLD WITH ABOUT $25 IN �
I
23 THE BANK. AND I CAME IN A LITTLE LATER. AND, HOPEFULLY, '
24 I ' VE BEEN SOME HELP TO THE ORGANIZATION.
� 25 COMMISSIONER JOKATHAN : WELL, YOU ' RE, YOU KNOW, I
�
26 FAMILIAR WITH THE HISTORY OF THE ORGANIZATION AND MAY HAVE I
5�
18 1 BEEN THERE . AND I ASKED YOU THIS QUESTION THE FIRST TI`��
2 AROUND , AND I ' M NOT SURE THAT -- THAT I QUITE UNDERSTA.ID
�
3 YOUR POSITION OR RESPONSE .
4 I 'M REFERRING TO THE -- TO THE HISTORY THAT ' S
5 TAKE.1 PLACE , BECAUSE THAT ' S REALLY CRITICAL IN MY MIND .
6 I ' D LIKE TO JUST QUOTE A COUPLE OF PASSAGES IN THE E . I . R .
7 AND ASK FOR YOUR COMMENTS .
8 MR. ROBERTS : SliRELY .
9 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : Mt'ST WE ASSUME THAT B . H . I .
10 KNEW OF THE SURROL'NDING ZONING AND TOOK THE SITE SUBJECT
11 THERETO? THIS WAS QUOTED PREVIOUSLY :
12 "TO THE EXTENT INCOMPATIBILITIES
13 NOW EXIST AND MAY BE CONSIDERED SELF-
� ;
14 IMPOSED BY B. H. I . , SINCE IT IS A MANMADE '
15 OPERATIOI�1 WITH THE FIRST CHOICE OF SITE
16 FOR OPERATIONS . " ,
17 OKAY . YOU CAN INFER THE SAME THING THAT I DO ,
18 WHICH IS BASICALLY, I GUESS , AN INDICATION THAT B. H . I .
19 WENT IN THERE KNOWZNG WHAT WAS GOING TO BE GOING IN
20 SURROUNDING LAND USE, CHOSE THE LOCATION OF THE PEN , Ai1D �
i
21 IS NOW COMING BACK ANB SAYING, "NOW WE HAVE AN �
22 INCOMPATIBILITY, AND IT ' S THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE �
23 DEVELOPER TO TAKE CARE OF THAT INCOMPATIBILITY . "
24 THAT WHOLE ISSUE IS CRITICAL IN MY MIND , AND I �
25 BRING IT UP BECAUSE I WANT TO HEAR HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT �'I' .�i ;
26 MR. ROBERTS : WELL, I THINK WE HAVE -- OFF THE TOP 0: ;
65
18 1 MY HEAD, I ' LL TRY AND RESPOND THE BEST I CAN .
2 WHEN THE INSTITUTE FIRST LOCATED THERE , OF
�
3 COURSE, THERE WAS NO DEVELOPMENT , OBVIOUSLY , AND -- RND
4 ANYTHING IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA. I THINK THAT WE MAY
5 HAVE MADE SOME ASSUMPTIONS THAT WERE -- OBVIOUSLY , NOW ARE
6 WRONG, IS THAT --
7 YOU KNOW, MY EXPERIENCE , ONCE AGAIN , WITH
8 E . I . R. ' S AND EVERYTHING ELSE , I MEAN I KNOW THAT A
9 DEVELOPER HAS TO GO THROUGH A PROCESS THAT SAYS THAT YOU
10 HAVE TO LOOK AT THE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES . I HAVE SEEN
11 REFERENCE TO A PLAN THAT I GUESS EXISTED AT ONE TIME THAT
12 CALLED FOR A HOTEL SITE AND "X" AMOUNT OF HOMES . AND I
13 BELIEVE IT ALSO REFERRED TO 300 ACRES OF ENVIRONMENTAL
*�r
14 BUFFER -- OPEN SPACE . I GUESS IT WAS CALLED OPEN SPACE,
15 THE 300 ACRES . AND I ' M NOT SURE WHERE THAT 300 ACRES IS
16 NOW, BECAUSE I ' VE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO GET THE DOCUMENTS .
17 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : THAT WAS THE GOLF COURSE .
18 MR. ROBERTS : RIGHT . TWO GOLF COURSES OR WAS THAT
19 A --
20 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : NO .
21 MR. • ROBERTS : -- BIG GOLF COURSE?
22 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : THAT WAS ONE . THAT WAS ONE .
23 THE ONE GOLF COURSE IN THE MOUNTAINS , THE HILLSIDES .
24 MR. ROBERTS : OKAY . BECAUSE I WAS UNDER THE
� 25 IMPRESSION IT WAS 160 ACRES FOR A GOLF COURSE . SO THIS
26 HAD TO BE A BIGGIE .
i
66
18 1 ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT , YOU KNOW , THE INSTITUTE
2 LOCATED THERE . WE ' RE QEALING WITH TWO DIFFERENT PROPERT�
�
3 OWNERS NOW. MR. HAYHOE BOUGHT THE LAND IN 1989 . HE
4 DIDN ' T BUY IT IN 1982 . HE IS A VERY SOPHISTICATED
5 DEVELOPER. THIS IS NOT LIKE BUYING A USED HOUSE DOWN THE
6 BLOCK.
7 AND FOR THE MONEY HE SPENT, I WOULD THI:' rHAT,
19
8 NUMBER ONE , HE WOULD RECOGNIZE WHAT HE HAS TO GO '' _:OL'GH,
9 THE VARIOUS PROCESS , WHICH IS CEQA, AND ALL THE R�3ULTING
10 ISSUES THr�T WOULD COME FROM THAT .
11 AND, YOU KNOW, ONCE AGAIN, I ' M NOT AN ADVISEF.
12 TO MR. HAYHOE . WE BUY OUR PROPERTY SUBJECT TO BECAUSE WE
13 DON ' T KNOW. THIS IS DIFFERENT TIMES . THIS IS 1991 . YOT'
;
� I
14 JUST DON 'T KNOW WHERE IT ' S GOING TO END, BECAUSE OF THE �
I
15 ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED IN THIS PART :ULAR E . I . R.
16 WHICH ARE BEYOND THE INSTITUTE . AND I ' M RE� ._�RING TO THE
17 DEAD INDIAN CREEK, I 'M REFERRING TO THE SUBJECT OF THE
18 TORTOISE OR WHATEVER.
19 SO THAT ' S PROBABLY THE BEST -- THE BEST ANSWER
20 THAT I CAN GIVE YOU, IS THAT PERHAPS WE CAN BE BLAMED FOR
21 1982 , BUT I REALLY DON ' T WANT TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR
22 1989 AND THE FACT THAT MR . HAYHOE -- AND I THINK THE STAFF �
23 WOULD CONCUR -- BASICALLY WAS TOLD OR FELT THAT THIS
24 PROPERTY WOULD ENJOY A NEGATIVE DECLARATION, THAT THERE
� ;
25 WAS ABSOLUTELY NO ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS AT ALL.
26 NOW, ONCE AGAIPI , THAT ' S -- THAT ' S NOT MY '
i
5
19 1 PURVZEw. THERE WAS oNE MEETING WITH MR. HAYHOE BET��vEE�r ;�
2 AND JIM DE FORGE , AND THAT WAS IT . THERE WAS NO OTHER
�rr
3 COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN ANY OF US UNTIL TEN DAYS BEFORE THE
4 FIRST PLANNING COMMISSION HEARING . SO WE HAD NO INPliT .
5 AND IF I HAD HAD INPUT, I WOULD HAVE PROBABLY
6 SAID SOMETHING . I THINK IN REAL ESTATE , YOU JUST DON ' T
7 SPEND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS UNLESS YOU ' RE SURE OF WHAT
8 YOU ' RE GOING TO GET.
9 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : THANK YOU .
10 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD : HOW CAN YOU BLAME THE
11 DEVELOPER, WHO COMES ALONG LATER AND HAS A PROPERTY THAT ' S
12 ZONED RESIDENTIAL -- HOW CAN YOU SHIFT THE BLAME FROM YOL'R
13 MISTAKE?
�
14 MR. ROBERTS : BECAUSE WE --
15 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD : THAT ' S WHAT YOU ' RE ATTEMPTING
16 TO DO HERE . YOU ' RE ATTEMPTING --
17 (APPLAUSE . )
18 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD: NOW HOLD IT .
19 YOU 'RE ATTEMPTING -- YOU ' RE ATTEMPTING TO SAY ,
20 "WE ' RE UNSOPHISTICATED PEOPLE . " YOU WENT BEFORE RIVERSIDE
21 COUNTY AI�TD SAID, "YES , WE ' RE COMPATIBLE . WE WON ' T BOTHER
22 ANYBODY. YEAH, WE KNOW IT ' S RESIDENTIAL. "
23 AND THEN, WHEN RESIDENTIAL WANTS TO LOCATE NEXT
24 TO YOU, ALL OF A SUDDEN IT ' S GOING TO IMPACT YOUR
�" 25 OPERATION. RND THEN THE CRY IS THAT IF WE ALLOW THIS ,
26 WE ' RE ANTI-INSTITUTE , ANTIBIGHORN SHEEP, AND WE ' RE
�o
19 1 BASICALLY GOING TO CAUSE THE HERD TO BECOME EXTINCT . hvD
2 I THINK -- IT ' S MY PERSONAL FEELING THAT YOU ' RE HIDIVG ,
�
3 REALLY , BEHIND THE SHEEP FOR YOUR MISTAKE .
4 (APPLAUSE . )
5 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD : AND I WOULD -- I ' VE ASKED YOli
6 THIS QUESTION BEFORE , AND I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR AN
7 ANSWER --
8 MR. ROBERTS : ALL RIGHT . I ' LL TRY TO --
9 COMMISS �^*tER ERWOOD: -- ON HOW YOU CAN JUSTIFY THIS .
10 MR. ROBE:,TS : FINE . I WILL, FIRST OF ALL, SAY -- AND
11 I WISH SOMEONE PERHAPS , WHETHER IT ' S FROM THE E . I . R.
12 CONSULTANT OR SOMEBODY FROM THE LEGAL THING , IS THAT WHEN
13 YOU BUY PROPERTY TODAY , YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH CEQA. THIS
14 IS STATE-MANDATED. THIS IS NOT ROBERTS-MANDATED , THIS I�
15 THE STATE . AND IT SAYS THAT YOU HAVE TO DO THAT .
16 NOW, THIS CITY HAS CONTRACTED WITH TWO
17 CONSULTANTS TO DO THAT , AND THE RESULTS ARE BEFORE YOU ,
18 AND THEY 'RE VERY CLEAR ON WHAT THEY SAY .
19 I AM SIMPLY SAYING THAT MR. HAYHOE BOliGHT HIS
20 PROPERTY . AND HE IS A KNOWLEDGEABLE PERSON AND HE IS A
21 SOPHISTICATED PERSON AND HE KNOWS THAT THESE THINGS RRE
22 PRESENT IN TODAY ' S MARKETPLACE . IT IS NO SURPRISE .
23 AND THESE ISSUES GO BEYOND THE BIGHORN
24 INSTITUTE . I ' M NOT HERE TO ADDRESS THE DEAD INDIAN CREEK
25 WASH . SOMEONE ELSE CAN DO THAT . BUT IT ' S CERTAINLY ,�
26 ADDRESSED IN THE E . I . R.
� � _
19 1 AND YET WE ' RE RECEIVING THE BLAME FOR -- FOR
2 BEING HERE . AND ALL WE HAVE DONE IS ORIGINALLY SAY , "wE
� 3 rHINK THERE SHOULD BE AN E . I . R. " I GUESS WE ' RE ACCEPTii1v
4 THE BLAME FOR THE FACT THAT THAT HAS BEEN DONE . AND WE
5 ARE SIMPLY SAYING WE SUPPORT THE CITY ' S OWN BIOLOGICAL
6 CONSULTANT ' S RECOMMENDATION . THAT ' S WHY I 'M HERE TONIGHT .
7 AND I DON ' T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY , BECAUSE IT ' S
8 NOT MY REPORT, IT ' S THEIR REPORT . AND I THINK IT IS VERY
9 THOROUGH , AND I THINK BOTH SIDES AGREE THAT IT IS
10 THOROUGH .
11 AND THERE WAS A LOT OF PEOPLE CONSULTED , NOT
12 JUST THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE . IT ' S NOT -- THAT ' S JUST ONE
13 PART OF THIS WHOLE SCOPE . THERE WAS 40 PEOPLE THAT THEY '
�
�"" 14 TRIED TO HAVE RESPOND ON THE BIOLOGICAL ISSUE OF THE j
�f
15 BIGHORN INSTITUTE. 29 RESPONDED . A LOT OF THEIR OWN
16 PERSONAL TIME FOR NOTHING. NO PAY . THAT ' S THE EXPERTS �
17 I ' M TRLKING ABOUT .
18 AND, ONCE AGAIN, THEIR CONCLUSIONS ARE HERE .
19 AND THEY SUPPORT, BASICALLY , THE CONSULTANT ' S
20 RECOMMENDATION, AND THAT ' S -- WE ' RE SAYING THAT WE SUPPORT �
i
21 THEIR RECOMMENDATION , AND IT ' S THE SAME ONE THAT WAS MADE �
i
22 A YEAR AGO IN THE OTHER REPORT BY JIM CORNETT . THE BASIC �
23 ACREAGE IS THE SAME . THE ADJUSTMENT IS MADE AT THE BOTTOM �
I
20
24 AND AT THE TOP. AND THAT ' S BECAUSE THE NEW E . I . R. i
I
� 25 CONSULTANT, AS FAR AS THE BIOLOGISTS , LOOKED AT IT AND i
26 SAID, IN THEIR OPINION, 600 YARDS , TO BEGIN WITH , wAS
� �
20 1 SAFER THAN 400 . AND WE ' RE SIMPLY SUPPORTIrIG THaT .
2 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : MR. ROBERTS , ARE YOU T C;GH^
3 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : THAT DIDN ' T ANSWER HIS Qli.: :'IOCI�
4 DID IT?
5 i CJMMISSIONER RICHARDS : I DON ' T KNOW ZF YOU READ THE
i
I
6 SAME REPORT I REA� . THE REPORT I READ INDICATES THAT A
7 VARIETY OF PEOPLE IN OR AROUND THE WILDLIFE FIELD WERE
8 CONTACTED. THEN AN EXPERT APPARENTLY TOOK SOME SORT CF A
9 NUMEROLOGICAL OR -- OR I DOI�1 ' T KNOW HOW, SOME PROCESS , AND
1C � DEVELOPED A, QUOTE , NUMBER .
11 MOST OF THE -- MOST OF THE DISCUSSION FROM THE
12 EXPERTS THAT I SEE , UNFORTUNATELY, HAVE VERY LITTLE TO DO
13 WITH THE PROJECT THAT YOU -- I LOOK AT YOU AS A DEVELOPER;
14 I LOOK AT MR. HAYHOE AS A DEVELOPER. YOUR BUSINESS IS `� �'.
15 DEVELOPING THE RESEARCH FOR THE DISEASED WILDLIFE .
16 MR. ROBERTS : OKAY . i
17 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : UNFORTUNATELY --
18 UNFCRTUNATELY, THERE ISN ' T MUCH IN ALL THE EXPERTS '
19 OP�:+ION THAT DEALS WITH EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING . OKAY'
20 THERE ' S AN AWFUL LOT THAT TALKS ABOUT THE BEHAVIORAL
21 PATTERNS OF THE WILDLIFE SHEEP . AN AWFUL LOT . 95 PERCE�IT �
�I
22 OF IT. OKAY?
i
i
23 VERY LITTLE TALKS ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE
24 SPECIFICALLY DOING AT THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE . VERY LITTLE I
��
25 TALKS ABOUT WHAT EFFECT DOES MAN HAVE ON A CAGED ANIMAL? � '
26 MOST OF THE THINGS ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT MAN ' S EFrEC�' ARE '
% a
20 1 I ON THE ANIMALS IN THE WILDLIFE .
2 WE HAVE VERY LITTLE EVIDENCE THAT -- THA�
�
3 SUPPORTS ALMOST ANYTHING REGARDING THIS INSTITL'TE , BECAliSE
4 NOBODY REALLY KNOWS WHAT GOES ON . WE DO KNOW THAT THERE
5 ARE PEOPLE THERE ALL THE TIME . WE DO KNOW THAT THERE ARE
6 HANG GLIDERS ABOVE THEM, TRUCKS BESIDE THEM, RESIDE:TCES
7 FAIRLY CLOSE BY . A NUMBER OF THINGS WE DO KNOW .
8 MR. ROBERTS : WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO ANSWER,
9 MR. RICHARDS , BECAUSE --
10 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : WHEN I GET TO IT,
11 MR. ROBERTS . I LISTENED TO YOU.
12 MR. ROBERTS : THANK YOU .
13 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : OKAY?
�' 14 WHAT I ' D LIKE TO KNOW IS HOW YOU CAN SIT THERE
15 AND SAY THAT THIS REPORT CLEARLY STATES THAT A BLTFFER AREA
16 OF 600 TO 1200 FEET -- OR YARDS HAS BEEN SUBSTANTIATED BY
17 ALL THE EXPERTS .
18 THERE ARE -- THEY RANGE IN-- FROM ZERO TO
19 MILES . SOME -- SOMEBODY ALONG THE LINE WAS ASKED TO PUT A
20 NUMBER ON IT. I DON ' T KNOW HOW HE CAME UP WITH THE
21 NUMBER. HE DOESN ' T SUBSTANTIATE IT. IT DOESN ' T INDICATE
22 HOW HE CAME TO THAT NUMBER. JUST PUT A NUMBER ON I� .
23 NOW, IN THE FIRST PART OF THE E . I . R. , IT ALSO
24 TALKS ABOUT WHAT THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF THIS COMMUNITY
� 25 AND THIS BOARD HAS . AND IT SAYS THAT WE ARE TO BE MADE
26 AWARE -- VERY CLEARLY . AND THE E . I . R. REPRESENTRTI`.'E
i �
20 1 SPOKE ABOUT THAT. MADE AWARE OF ALL OF THE FACTS . I
2 THINK THE REPORT IS -- HAS DONE THAT .
�
3 WHEN I SEE THE FACTS , I DON 'T SEE THE SAME
4 FACTS YOU DO , AND THAT ' S -- THAT ' S , PERHAPS , JUST A MATTER
5 OF INTERPRETATION. BUT I DON ' T KNOW HOW YOU CAN SIT HERE
6 AND TELL US THAT IT CLEARLY STATES THAT A BUFFER -- WITH
7 ALL THESE PEOPLE AND ALL THESE DIFFERENT OPINIONS , WHEN
8 THERE IS AT LEAST AS MANY OPINIONS FOR NO BUFFER AND A
9 SUBSTANTIAL COMMENT COMING FROM SOMEBODY WHC ' S BEEN I:'
10 THIS COMMUNZTY FOR MANY, MANY YEARS , LIVING AROUND ALL OF
11 US , DOING A FINE JOB, SPECIFICALLY , THE LIVING DESERT
12 RESERVE . HOW CAN YQU STATE THAT THIS THING SAYS
13 UNEQUIVOCALLY THAT WE NEED SIX TO 1200 YARDS?
�
14 MR. ROBERTS : WELL, I GUESS , BECAUSE THAT ' S WHAT IT
15 SAYS . I THINK -- I MEAN I ' VE READ THIS THING. ARE WE ON
16 THE SAME PAGE , MAYBE? 109 , DOWN ON THE BOTTOM.
17 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : YEAH.
18 MR. ROBERTS : WELL, THAT ' S EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS .
19 NOW, I THINK THAT QUESTION SHOULD GO TO THE CONSULTANT ,
20 NOT ME . I MEAN I DIDN ' T WRITE IT. I ' M JUST SAYING WHAT
21 IT SAYS . AND I THINK IF SOMEONE ELSE CAN TELL YOU HOW
22 THEY GOT TO IT, THEY SHOULD, BECAUSE THAT ' S -- I ' M NOT
23 INVOLVED IN THAT PROCESS .
24 I MEAN PLEASE UNDERSTAND. I MEAN IS THAT A
25 FAIR ASSUMPTION? I MEAN I WOULD LIKE TO -- YOUR QL'ESTIO�
26 NEEDS TO BE ANSWERED BY SOMEONE THAT PREPARED THE REPORT .
i
, 3
20 1 I CAN ' T DO IT.
2 (APPLAUSE . )
�
3 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : NOBODY FROM EZTHER SIDE
4 HAS -- HAS RDEQUATELY ANSWERED MY QUESTION AS TO WHAT
5 EFFECT DO THOSE SHEEP HAVE -- WHAT EFFECT WOULD THEY HAVE
6 WITH THE PEOPLE ANYWHERE NEAR THEM?
7 IF YOU PEOPLE WERE REQUIRED TO DO AN E . I . R. O�I
8 YOUR OWN FACILITY TODAY , YOU WOULDN ' T PASS IT WITH -- WITH
9 ALL OF THE SAME GUIDELINES , YOU WOULDN ' T HAVE A CHANCE .
10 YOU ' RE COMING IN AND REQUIRING NEIGHBORS TO ADJUST TO
1
11 YOUR -- YOUR PARTICULAR POINTS OF VIEW ON HOW CERTAIN
12 THINGS SHOULD BE DONE IN YOUR FACILITY WITH ABSOLL'TELY --
13 WITHOUT ANY SPIRIT OF COMPROMISE WHATSOEVER.
�
14 I THINK THAT THIS ORGANIZATION HAS BEEN -- HAS
15 BEEN HAMPERED BY THE STUBBORNNESS AND THE UNYIELDINGNESS
16 AND -- OF SOME OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS ORGANIZATION . I
17 THINK YOU ' VE DONE A GREAT DISSERVICE TO THE PEOPLE WHO
18 HAVE SUPPORTED YOU.
19 (APPLAUSE . )
20 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE : THAT ' S YOUR OPINION.
21 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : I SAID IT WAS MY OPINIOrd .
22 MR. ROBERTS : IF I MAY COMMENT.
23 BASICALLY , I ' VE HAD SEVERAL MEETINGS WITH JIM
24 HAYHOE , AND WE HAVE TRIED TO MAKE IT CLEAR SINCE THE
� 25 BEGINNING THAT THERE IS A BIOLOGICAL ANSWER TO THIS
26 PARTICULAR ISSUE , AND THAT THAT IS WHERE THE LINE IS DRAWN
��
1 1 IN THE SAND, IS THAT WE CANNOT , WE FEEL, COMPROMISE THAT
2 BIOLOGICAL DECISION . IF THAT DECISION , SUCH AS WHAT THE`i
3 HAVE SAID HERE , IS NECESSARY TO PRESERVE THE BREEDING �
4 OPERATION AND THE LAMBING, THEN THAT ' S WHAT IT IS .
5 AND IT ' S A LITTLE BIT LIKE SAYING THAT, YOU
6 KNOW, A PERSON EITHER HAS 100 PERCENT INTEGRITY , BUT IF
7 THEY ' VE GOT 60 PERCENT , I PROBABLY DON ' T WANT TO TALK TO
8 THEM . YOU CAN ' T COMPROMISE THE BIOLOGICAL TEAM, THE
9 EXPERT ' S OPINION , AND SIMPLY SAY THAT IN THE SPIRIT OF
10 COMPROMISE , LET ' S GO FOR 60 PERCENT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS .
11 THAT ' S THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THIS E . I . R. , I
12 BELIEVE, IS TO LOOK AT ALL THE INFORMATION AND ALL THE
13 EXPERTS AND THEN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION. AND I DIDN ' T MAKE
14 THAT RECOMMENDATION. THIS IS FROM THE CONSULTANT . IT ' S `'�'
15 THEIR BIOLOGIST. THIS IS THE SECOND TIME THAT A BIOLOGIST
16 HAS INDEPENDENTLY BEEN HIRED BY -- CONTRACTED BY THE CITY
17 TO COME UP WITH THE PROPER ANSWER. AND THEY ' RE COMING UP
18 WITH ANSWERS THAT PEOPLE DON ' T WANT. I DON ' T KNOW WHAT TO
19 DO ABOUT IT.
20 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : MR. ROBERTS , LET ME ASK YOU .
21 YOU REFERENCED PAGE 109 OF THE E . I . R. ONE OF THE
22 STATEMENTS CONTAINED ON PAGE 109 IS : i
23 "THE LITERATURE GIVES NO CLEAR
24 INDICATION OF A SUITABLE BUFFER '
25 DISTANCE BETWEEN LAMBING AREAS AND
�
26 HUMAN ACTIVITY . "
�I
I ' �
1 1 SO, NOW, CLEARLY , THERE IS A LACK OF
2 INFORMATION , THERE IS A -- THAT ' S WHY SO MANY EXPERTS �RE
�
3 COMING UP WITH SO MANY DIFFERENT ANSWERS . AND WHICH ONE
4 YOU PICK DEPENDS ON A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS .
5 THE QUESTION THAT I WOULD HAVE TO YOU IS -- I
6 ASSUME THAT THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE DESIRES SOME BUFFER,
7 WHETHER THAT ' S 400 , 600 , 1200 OR A MILE , AS SUGGESTED BY
8 ONE EXPERT .
9 THE QUESTION TO YOU IS : GIVEN THAT YOU HAVE A
10 DESIRE FOR A BUFFER, WHY DID B . H . I . CHOOSE TO LOCATE ITS
11 PEN -- ITS LAMBING PEN ALMOST DIRECTLY ON ITS BOUNDARY
12 WITH ITS -- WITH THE ADJACENT NEIGHBOR, KNOWING THAT
13 RESIDEKTIAL DEVELOPMENT WOULD TAKE PLACE THERE?
�
14 MR. ROBERTS : WELL, I THINK WE ' RE -- YES . WE ' RE BACK
15 TO THE SAME ISSUE . AND I ' M NOT SURE I HAVE AN ANSWER
16 THAT ' S GOING TO SATISFY ANYBODY ON THAT.
17 THE PLACEMENT OF THE LAMBING PENS IS -- IS A
18 BIOLOGICAL THING. AND I THINK IT ' S BEEN EXPLAINED, AND
19 JIM DE FORGE CAN EXPLAIN IT AGAIN.
20 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : IT ' S A BZOLOGICAL THING , ;
i
21 BUT --
22 MR. ROBERTS : IT ' S A VERY UNIQUE SITUATION .
23 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : -- IT JUST DOESN ' T OPERATE IN �,
24 A VACUUM. I MEAN IT EXISTS IN A CERTAIN PLACE , AND YOU
�,,. 25 HAVE TO CONSIDER THE SURROUNDING ENVIRONMENT AND WHETHER '
26 THERE ' S GOING TO BE DEVELOPMENT OR NOT THERE .
i
� -�
1 1 I MEAN I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WERE ALTERNATE
2 SITES FOR A LAMBING PEN . I ' M JUST WONDERING IF YGU CAN
�1�'
3 CLUE ME IN TO THE HISTORY OR WHAT LED UP TO THE DECISION
4 TO PLACE THE LAMBING PEN WHERE IT ENDED UP .
5 MR. ROBERTS : JIM CAN EXPLAIN THAT -- AND HE ' LL
6 PROBABLY BE THE NEXT SPEAKER -- BECAUSE HE WAS OBVIOUSLY
7 ACTIVE IN LOOKING AT SITES AND WORKING WITH THE BLM. AND
8 I TH :::IK HE CAN , YOU KNOW, REALISTICALLY ADDRESS THAT AND
9 GIVE YOU SOME HELP .
10 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : OKAY . THANK YOU.
11 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: THANK YOU VERY MUCH , MR. ROBERTS .
12 PERHAPS WE COULD ASK MR. DE FORGE TO ANSWER
13 SOME OF OUR QUESTIONS .
14 MR. WILLIAMS : I AM NOT MR. DE FORGE . MY NAME IS `�
15 CRAIG WILLIAMS . I AM AN ATTORNEY FOR THE BIGHORN
16 INSTITUTE . I WORK WITH ALLEN, MATKINS , LECK, GAMBLE &
17 MALLORY IN IRVINE, CALIFORNIA, AT 18400 VON KARMAN, ON THE
18 FOURTH FLOOR .
19 UNFORTUNATELY, MR. DE FORGE HAD TO LEAVE TO
20 ADDRESS A CONCERN THAT HAS ARISEN AT THE INSTITUTE i
21 REGARDING SOME SHEEP THRT ARE THERE AND WILL NOT BE ABLE �
i
22 TO ADDRESS YOUR CONCERNS TONIGHT . :
23 HOWEVER, I BELIEVE THAT I MIGHT PROVIDE SOME
24 INSIGHT TO MR. JONATHAN ' S , MR. ERWOOD ' S AND MR. RICHARDS '
j
25 QUESTIONS . AND IT IS AN ANSWER THAT I BELIEVE NO GNE ,�; '
26 LIKES .
i
� %�
1 1 YOU MAY WANT TO LAY SOME BLAME AT THE DOORSTEP
2 OF THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE FOR ITS DECISIONS IN LOCATING r�T
�
3 THE -- RT ITS CURRENT SITE . I BELIEVE , IF YOU WILL TAKE a
2
4 LOOK AT MR. DE FORGE ' S RESPONSE TO THE BIOLOGICAL
5 QUESTIONNAIRE THAT WRS SENT OUT BY PACIFIC SOUTHWEST
6 BIOLOGICAL SERVICES , WHICH IS IN THE TECHNICAL APPENDICES ,
7 YOU WILL FIND HIS EXPLANATION OF WHY THAT SITE WAS CHOSEN .
8 IF YOU CHOOSE TO LAY BLAME AT THE INSTITUTE ' S
9 DOORSTEP, YOU CERTAINLY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO . AT THE
10 SAME TIME, AND IN FAIRNESS TO THE INSTITUTE AND TO
11 EVERYONE ELSE CONCERNED, AS MR. ROBERTS POINTED OUT, BLAME
12 NEEDS TO BE PLACED ELSEWHERE .
13 SOME OF THAT BLAME, YOU MAY CHOOSE TO PLACE AT
� 14 THE DOORSTEP OF ALTAMIRA DEVELOPMENT ITSELF IN BliYING ITS
15 LAND IN 1989 , KNOWING FULL WELL WHERE THE INSTITL'TE LdAS .
16 MR. HAYHOE , I ' M SURE, WILL HAVE SOME COMMENTS ABOliT THAT .
17 YOU MAY ALSO WANT TO LAY THE BLAME ON THE
18 COUNTY OF RIVERSIDE , IN ITS DECISION IN ALLOWING THE
19 INSTITUTE TO LOCATE THERE .
20 YOU MAY ALSO WANT TO LAY SOME BLAME AT THE
21 DOORSTEP OF THE BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT, WHO SENT, IN
22 1983 AND IN 1989 , NOTICES TO THE CITY OF PALM DESERT WHICH
23 RECEIVED A "NO COMMENT" RESPONSE FROM YOUR PLANNING STAFF .
24 YOU MAY WANT TO LAY SOME BLAME WITH THE
� 25 PLANNING STAFF . AND I DON ' T KNOW. AND I ' M NOT TRYING TO
26 MAKE THAT JUDGMENT FOR YOU . YOU, AS COMMISSIONERS , �RE
I �
2 1 ENTITLED TO MAKE THOSE JUDGMENTS .
2 MY ONLY POINT , AND ONE THAT YOUR LEGAL COL'NSET
�
3 SHOULD ADVISE YOU ON RATHER THAN ME, AND YOUR BIOLOGICAL
4 CONSULTANT , IS SIMPLY THAT GIVEN THE CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES
5 AND GIVEN THE LAW UNDER THE CALIFORNIA ENVIRONMENTAL
6 QUALITY ACT, THE LAW REQUIRES THAT YOU DEAL WITH THE
7 EXISTING PHYSICAL CONDITIONS . HISTORY IS AN IRRELEVANT
8 SUBJECT, AL'?'HOUGH EMOTIONAL AND ALTHOUGH THE BLAME COULD
9 BE LAID, PRG. 3LY, AT EVERYBODY ' S DOORSTEP . AND I 'M NOT
10 SAYING THAT THE INSTITUTE SHOULD SHARE SOME OF THAT BLAME,
11 BUT YOU MAY MAKE T:�RT CHOICE .
12 MY ONLY POINT IS THAT THE EXISTING PHYSICAL
13 CONDITIONS ARE WHAT MUST BE RESPONDED TO UNDER THE
�
14 ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT, AND THAT, AS COMMISSIONERS , ,
15 IS THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT YOU BEAR. YOU MAY MAKE
16 WHATEVER CHOICE YOU MAKE , AS ANDRIETTE ADAMS SAID IN THE �
17 VERY BEGINNING, BASED ON THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE . IF YOU
18 CHOOSE TO MAKE THAT BASED OI�1 THE HISTORY , THEN YOU MAKE IT
19 THAT WAY .
20 I 'M JUST TRYING TO POINT OUT THAT IT ' S NOT ONL'Y
21 THE INSTITUTE, IF YOU CHOOSE TO LAY BLAME THERE , BUT IT j
22 CAN BE SPREAD AROUND. AND IT PROBABLY SHOULD BE . '
23 THANK YOU .
;
24 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : MR. WILLIr�,MS --
�
25 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : BEFORE YOU G0, ONE QUESTION . �
26 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : MR. WILLIAMS , ONE OF THE
i - '
2 1 PROBLEMS WE ALL HAVE IS THAT THERE JUST ISN ' T AN I�STiTL'T�
2 AROUND EVERY CORNER.
�
3 MR. WILLIAMS : NO . THAT ' S TRUE .
4 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : WE CAN PROBABLY DEAL WITH A
5 LOT OF THINGS BECAUSE WE ' VE HAD THEM HERE BEFORE . BUT FOR
6 YOU TO SAY THAT ANYBODY -- AND I ' M REALLY NOT -- I 'M
7 REALLY MORE ALONG -- IN AGREEMENT WITH YOU ABOUT BUYER
8 BEWARE WITH MR. HAYHOE ' S PROJECT . I DO� ' T REALLY BUY THAT
9 ARGUMENT THAT WELL.
10 BUT THE PROBLEM I HAVE IS THAT WHEN YOU SET
11 YOURSELF UP IN YOUR INSTITUTE, NOBODY KNOWS , ANYWHERE
12 AROUND YOU, WHAT THAT REALLY MEANS . IF YOU WERE A NUCLEAR
13 FACILITY , I ' D KIND OF KNOW WHAT IT MEANT . I WOULDN ' T WANT
��rw
14 TO LIVE ANYWHERE AROUND THERE.
15 BUT A BIGHORN SHEEP INSTITUTE THAT STARTS OFF
16 WITH THE DESIGNATION THAT THEY ' RE THERE FOR RESEARCH AND
17 THEN FILES SOMETHING WITH THE COUNTY THAT SAYS THAT WE
18 MIGHT HAVE TO HAVE A HELIPORT AND MAYBE A HOTEL AND
19 SOMETHING CALLED A VISITORS CENTER, WELL, I WOULD KIND OF
20 KNOW WHAT THAT IS . i
21 BUT I DON ' T KNOW WHRT A -- WHAT A RESEARCH !I
i
22 CENTER IS THAT WORKS WITH ANIMALS THAT NOW NEEDS SIX TO
23 1200 YARDS OF BUFFER. OKAY? I DON ' T UNDERSTAND THAT , I
24 BECAUSE IN MY LIMITED SCOPE, I HAVEN 'T RUN ACROSS THAT '
� 25 PROBLEM BEFORE .
26 NOW, IF WE ' RE SUPPOSED TO BE -- AS CITY
i
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a��
2 1 PLANNING COMMISSIONERS OR STAFF OR ANYBODY ELSE , H06v AR�
2 WE TO PREPARE FOR ANY PLANNING DECISION WHEN A
3 DEVELOPER -- AND THAT ' S WHAT I LOOK AT YOU PEOPLE ARE -- �
4 AND COME IN AFTER THE FACT AND SAY , "NOW WE NEED THIS ARL�
5 ALL AROUND US BECAUSE OF WHAT WE ' RE DOING IN HERE . "
6 WHEN INITIALLY YOU WENT IN AND SAID A LOT OF
7 OTHER THINGS . AND THAT ' S -- THAT ' S LOGICAL TOO, BECAUSE
8 YOUR ORIGINAL PURPOSES COULD HAVE CHANGED. RND I RESPE^T
9 THAT , THAT OVER TIME THEY COULD HAVE CHANGED .
10 BUT I WONDER HOW ANY OF US SHOULD L�UK AT, NOT
11 ONLY IF IT WAS A BIGHORN RESEARCH CENTER OR WHETHER IT WAS
12 THE RESEARCH CENTER FOR ANYTHING. HOW WOULD WE KNOW, WHEN
13 YOU PUT A FACILITY IN THERE , THAT WE SHOULD NOW HAVE TO
14 AFFECT THAT WIDE AN AREA AND THAT MANY ACRES OF LA:�D ALL`�
15 AROUND IT WHEN IT APPEARS TO BE SOMEWHAT OF AN INNOCL'OUS
�
16 �AND USE .
3
17 I SUGGEST TO YOU THAT -- THAT THE DICE WERE
18 LOADED THERE . WE DIDN 'T . KNOW, AND I DON ' T KNOW THAT WE ' RE
19 EXPECTED TODAY TO MAKE A PLANNING DECISION BASED ON THOSE
20 KINDS OF INFORMA -- THE LACK OF INFORMATION . ;
i
21 MR. WILLIAMS : ALL I CAN SAY TO RESPOND TO YOU, �
22 MR . RICHARQS , IS , I ' M GLAD I ' M NOT IN YOUR CHAIR . I DON ' T
i
23 HAVE AN ANSWER FOR YOU. I CAN ' T DIRECT YOU OTHER THAN Tp ''
24 DIRECT YOU TO THE �NVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT AND THE I
25 OPINIONS OF THE EXPERTS . IT IS A TOUGH CHOICE , AND I �
�
26 GRANT YOU THAT .
�
I
8 �
3 1 THANK YOU .
2 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : JUST A MINUTE . I WOULD LIKE TO
� 3 SPEAK TO YOU FOR A SECOND.
4 MR. WILLIAMS : YES , MR. DOWNS .
5 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : WHILE AGO YOU WERE PUTTING THE
6 BLAME ON THIS ONE , PUTTING THE BLAME ON THAT ONE , PUTTING
7 THE BLAME ON THE OTHER ONE . WE ARE TRYING TO GET
8 II�IFORMATION OUT OF YOU , WHICH, APPARENTLY , YOU ' RE NOT T00
9 WILLING TO GIVE US , TO KEEP FROM HAVING SOMEBODY PliT THE
10 BLAME ON US , SO THAT WE ' RE MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE IN WHAT WE
11 HAVE WE MAKE A DECISION ON SOONER OR LATER AT THIS TABLE .
12 MR. WILLIAMS : I DON ' T --
13 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : AND I WOULD THINK THAT , AS AN
� 14 ATTORNEY , YOU WOULD RESPECT THE DESIRE FOR US TO HAVE ALL
15 THE INFORMATION THAT WE CaULD HAVE .
16 MR. WILLIAMS : WE DO, AND --
17 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : YOU DIDN 'T APPEAR TO .
18 MR. WILLIAMS : WELL, I APOLOGIZE IF I DIDN ' T.
19 THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT THAT ' S BEFORE
20 YOU, IN THE TECHNICAL APPENDICES CONTAINS MR. DE FORGE ' S
21 ANSWER. YOUR QUESTION NEEDS TO HAVE SOME CONSIDERED
22 RESPONSE TO IT .
23 AND AT THIS POINT, SINCE MR. DE FORGE IS NOT
24 AVAILABLE, WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS THAT YOU GIVE US THE
� 25 OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND TO THAT QUESTION AND ALLOW
26 MR . DE FORGE TO GIVE YOU HIS OPINION, EITHER IN WRI'I'ItiG CR
H2
3 1 ORALLY BEFORE YOU AT THE NEXT COMMISSION HEARING .
2 IF YOU CHOOSE �OT TO DO THAT, THEN WE WILL
�
3 SUBMIT WRITTEN COMMENTS FROM MR. DE FORGE, EXPLAINING THE
4 ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION .
5 THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS IN THAT
6 TECHNICAL APPENDIX . IT DOES RESPOND TO IT .
7 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : THAT MAY BE TRUE . BUT , SEE , THE
8 QUESTION THAT ' S BEEN ASKED YOU FOUR OR FIVE TIMES , NOT
9 ONLY HERE, BUT BEFORE : WHY, IF THIS WAS SUCH A CRITICAL
10 AREA, DID Y�U PUT THE SHEEP LAMBING ON THE BOUNDARY LINE?
11 MR. WILLIAMS : I THINK YOU ' LL FIND THE --
12 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : YOU HAVEN ' T ANSWERED THAT
13 QUESTION, AND NEITHER DID MR. DE FORGE .
14 MR. WILLIAMS : I THINK YOU ' LL FIND, IN THE TECHNICAL�
• 15 APPENDICES , THAT MR. DE FORGE ' S ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS
16 THAT IT WAS THE BEST SITE THAT WAS AVAILABLE , IN HIS
17 OPINION, AT THE TIME TO LOCATE THE PENS THERE .
18 TIME, APPARENTLY, HAS BORNE OUT THAT OPINION TO
19 BE TRUE, BECAUSE THE OPINION OF MR. DE FORGE IN THAT BEING
20 THE BEST SITE HAS RESULTED IN UNPARALLELED SUCCESS .
21 AND I DON ' T MEAN TO MALIGN ANY OTHER
22 ORGANIZATION, BUT THERE ARE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS WHO HAVE
23 ATTEMPTED TO DO WHAT THE INSTITUTE HAS SUCCESSFULLY DONE
24 OVER THE LAST EIGHT YEARS . THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO
25 THAT . IN FACT, THE FOUR RELEASES THAT HAVE COME FROM TH�
26 ORGRNIZATION HAVE RESULTED IN DEATHS OF THOSE RELEASED
3 �
3 1 BIGHORNS AND THE LOSS OF THE CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF FIS'r.
2 AND GAME MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING TO CONDUCT StiCH
�
3 RESEARCH .
4 SO MR. DE FORGE ' S INITIAL OPINION THAT THAT WAS
5 ' THE BEST SITE IN COACHELLA VALLEY THAT WAS AVAILABLE TO
6 HIM TO LOCATE THE PENS , WITH THE NUMBER OF CRITERIA THAT I
7 BELIEVE HE LAYS OUT IN THOSE APPENDICES , INCLUDING THE
8 ABILITY TO RISE ABOVE ANY OTHER STRESSORS , SUCH AS A
9 COYOTE OR A HUMAN OR ANYTHING ELSE , THAT THOSE SHEEP CAN
10 RETREAT TO THE TOP OF THE HILL. UNOBSTRUCTED VIEW AND --
11 THERE ARE ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN CRITERIA.
12 AND I WOULD COMMEND HIS RESPONSES TO THE
13 PACIFIC SOUTHWEST BIOLOGICAL SERVICES QUESTIONNAIRE . I
�
14 HAVE SOME IN MY MIND, BUT I CAN ' T, OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD,
15 REPEAT ALL OF THEM. SUFFICE IT TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, HIS
16 OPINION HAS BEEN CORRECT -- HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE CORRECT,
17 WHETHER -- YOU RNOW, THE QUESTIONS OF ZONING, AND, YOU
18 KNOW, WE 'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THAT.
19 BUT WHEN YOU HAVE AN INSTITUTE THAT
20 APPROXIMATELY 90 PERCENT OF ITS RELEASES HAVE BEEN
21 SUCCESSFUL OVER THE LAST EIGHT YEARS AND IT HAS DONE THE
22 JOB ITS DONE AND IT CONTINUES TO ENJOY THE MEMORANDU� OF
23 UNDERSTANDING OVER THE LAST EIGHT YEARS WITH THE
24 CALIFORNIA FISH AND GAME , THAT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF .
� 25 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : MR. WILLIAMS , THE SELECTION
26 OF THE SITE, YOU SAID THAT THERE IS A VARIETY OF CRITERI�,
3-�
3 1 YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE . IT HAS TO BE A HILL,, r�''
2 :S TO BE A NORTH-FACING SLOPE , OPEN SPACE , ET CETERA.
�
3 I HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT ONE OF THE CRITERIA THA'i'
4 MAKES A SITE FOR A LAMBING PEN DESIRABLE IS THAT -- THAT
5 IT HAVE A CERTAIN SPACE AROUND IT . I MEAN YOU WOULDN ' T ,
6 FOR EXAMPLE , LOCATE A LAMBING PEN ON THE EDGE OF AN
7 AIRPORT RUNWAY , OKAY , AS AN EXTREME EXAMPLE .
8 IF THAT WRS THE BEST SITE , WASN ' T THAT CRITERIA
9 CONSIDERED? AND IF SO , WHY WASN ' T SURROUNDING PROPERTY
10 PURCHASED TO ENSURE THAT IN THE FUTURE THAT THERE WOULD BE
11 NO INTERFERENCE WITH THE OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENT?
12 MR. WILLIAMS : WELL, AS MR. --
13 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : I MEAN BECAUSE COMMISSIONER
4 ;,�
14 RICHARDS POINTED OUT SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS VERY
15 COGENT , AND THAT IS THAT BASICALLY WHAT B. H . I . IS SAYING
16 IS , "WE ' VE LOCATED THE PEN . IT ' S GOT TO B� I'HERE . AND WE
17 NEED THE SURROUNDING LAND TO MAKE IT WORK FOR US . AND THE
18 DEVELOPER AND OWNER OF THAT LAND BE DAMNED, BASICALLY . "
19 OKAY. THAT ' S KIND OF THE MESSAGE THAT, AT
20 LEAST I 'M GETTING. WHY WASN 'T THAT CONSIDERED EARLY ON?
i
21 MR. WILLIAMS : I DON ' T PRESUME TO SPEAK FOR
22 MR. DE FORGE , AND HE WOULD BE BETTER SUITED TO RESPOND TO
23 YOUR QUESTION. AND WE WILL PROVIDE WRITTEN COr`.`?ENTS
24 ' THAT --
25 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : HE ' S NOT HERE? �'
26 MR. WILLIAMS : NO . -- WITH WRITTEN COMMENTS 'I'HAT DO
i
a �
4 1 RESPOND TO YO[1R QUESTION .
2 I DO BELIEVE THAT IN 1982 , NO ONE KNEW AT
�
3 THE -- NO ONE HAD THE SAME AMOUNT OF INFORMATION ABOUT
4 BIGHORN SHEEP THAT THEY HAVE RIGHT NOW. YOU KNOW, AS
5 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS POINTED OUT, YOU KNOW, " IF IT WERE A
6 NUCLEAR FACILITY , I ' D KNOW WHAT TO DO . BUT WITH THE
7 BIGHORN INSTITUTE, I ' M NOT SURE . " AND TO SOME EXTENT ,
8 THAT MAY BE -- THAT MAY BE TRUE .
9 IN THE SENSE THAT IN 1982 , THE INFORMATION THr�T
10 THE INSTITUTE HAD REGARDING THE AMOUNT OF SPACE THAT WAS
11 NECESSARY TO PROVIDE PROTECTION FOR ITS SHEEP IS NOT THE
12 SAME INFORMATION THAT IT HAS RIGHT NOW.
13 AND I DON ' T PRETEND TO TELL YOU THAT THAT
� 14 INFORMATION HAS CHANGED, BECAUSE I 'M NOT MR. DE FORGE AND
15 I CAN ' T ANSWER THAT. BUT I ' M TELLING YOU THAT THAT HAS �
16 EVOLVED OVER TIME . BECAUSE OF EIGHT YEARS OF 365 DAYS A
17 YEAR DIRECT OBSERVATION OF THOSE CAPTIVE SHEEP , THERE HAS
18 BEEN A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF INCREASE IN THE TECHNICAL
19 INFORMATION.
20 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : ALL RIGHT . WELL, LET ME -- i
!
21 LET ME GET CLARIFICATION, BECAUSE WHAT I HEAR YOU SAYI^�G !
22 IS -- AND PERHAPS , LIKE MANY THINGS , IT COMES DOWN TO A
;
23 QUESTION OF ECONOMICS .
24 WHAT I ' M HEARING Y�U SAY IS THAT IN ' 82 , WE HAD ,
�, 25 ENOUGH INFORMATION TO COME UP WITH THIS SELECTION SITE ,
26 BUT IN THE NINE YEARS HENCE , WE ' VE LEARNED THAT THERE IS
a6
4 1 THIS ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENT TO MAKE IT WORK, AND THAT ' S
2 MORE LAND. AND OUR SOLUTION TO THIS ADDITIO� "<<L
�
3 REQUIREMENT IS TO PLACE A RESTRICTION THAT THERE WILL BE
4 NO DEVELOPMENT . IN ESSENCE , THAT WE WILL ACQUIRE THE
5 CONTROL OF THAT PROPERTY .
6 AGAIN , THAT ' S WHAT I ' M HEARING. AM I HEARING
7 CORRECTLY?
8 MR. WILLIAMS : I DON ' T KNOW IF I ' D CHARACTERIZE IT IN
9 THAT MANNER, WHICH IS A GOOD RESPONSE FROM AN ATTORNEY .
10 I DON ' T KNOW THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION,
11 AND -- I REALLY DON ' T .
12 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN: THAT ' S FAIR.
13 MR. WILLIAMS : I CAN ' T ANSWER THEM ALL.
�
14 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : THANK YOU .
15 MR. WILLIRMS : THANK YOU.
15 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: THANK YOU, MR. WILLIAMS .
� . I HAVE BEEN ASKED TO PROVIDE THIS BODY WITH A
18 TEN-MINUTE RECESS , SO WE WILL RECESS UNTIL 20 MINUTES
19 AFTER 9 : 00 .
20 (RECESS . )
21
22
23
24
2 5 �`
26
I �
4 1 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: COULD I ASK EVERYONE TO PLEASE B�
2 SEATED SO THAT WE CAN CONTINUE WITH THE PUBLIC HEARI:dG .
�
3 I ' D LIKE TO CONTINUE WITH THE PUBLIC HEARING,
4 PLEASE , AND CONTINUE WITH ANYONE PRESENT WHO WISHES TO
5 SPEAK IN OPPOSITION .
6 MS . LAWMAN: GOOD EVENING . I ' M -- MY NAME IS RHEO
7 LAWMAN . I LIVE AT 73-816 DE ANZA WAY IN PALM DESERT .
8 I ' VE LIVED HERE FOR 35 YEARS , AND I ' VE WATCHED
9 PALM DESERT GROW FROM A TINY LITTLE COMMUNITY TO WHAT IT
10 IS NOW. AND I 'VE ALSO WATCHED THE WILDLZFE DISAPPEAR OVER
11 THE YEARS .
12 AND I ' M HERE , REALLY, ON BEHALF OF THE BIGHORN
13 INSTITUTE. AND I THINK THAT EVERY PRECAUTION SHOULD BE
�
14 TAKEN TO PROTECT IT, EVEN IF THE LAMBING PEN FACES THE
15 WRONG DIRECTION.
16 IF YOU GO UP AND LOOK AT THE LAMBING PEN, YOU
17 CAN SEE WHY IT WAS CHOSEN. IT WAS CHOSEN BECAUSE IT HRS
18 TIERS , AND THE MOTHER SHEEP CAN GO UP AND BE IN A SECLUDED
19 AREA, AND THEY CAN LOOK DOWN AND SEE WHAT ' S COMING OR WHAT
20 ISN ' T COMING. IT ' S JUST A NATURAL PLACE FOR THEM TO GIVE
21 BIRTH TO THEIR BABIES .
22 AND I THINK THAT YOU, COMMISSIONER ERWOOD, WAS '
23 WAY OUT OF LINE WHEN YOU CALLED -- TOLD KENT ROBERTS THAT
24 HE WAS HIDING BEHIND THE BIGHORN .
� 25 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE : HE IS .
26 MS . LAWMAN: AND I JUST DON ' T THINK THAT THAT WAS
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d6
4 1 CALLED FOR AT ALL.
2 BUT I DO THINK THAT THE BIGHORN ARE -- PLAY Au
�
3 IMPORTANT PART IN THE WILDLIFE HERE . AND THE -- THE
4 SUCCESS OF THE INSTITUTE IS WELL-KNOWN , AND IT CO*7TINL'ES
5 TO DEVELOP AND REPLENISH THE HERD, AND I JUST CA�1 ' T SEE
6 WHY ANYBODY WOULD EVEN CONSIDER DISTURBING IT.
7 WHEN THEY FIRST BUILT THE INSTITUTE , IT WAS
8 YEARS AGO. THERE WAS NOTHING IN THAT AREA AT ALL, AND
9 IT ' S VERY EASY TO SEE WHY IT WAS BUILT THE WAY IT WAS , IF
10 YOU ACTUALLY GO UP THERE AND LOOK.
11 AND I WOULD HOPE THAT YOU, ON THE PLANNING
12 COMMISSION, WOULD CONSIDER THE INSTITUTE AND REALLY
13 CONSIDER THE -- THE IMPACT AND THE VERY FACT THAT WE ' RE
14 THE ONLY CITY IN THE WORLD THAT HAS A BIGHORN INSTITUTE . �
15 I THINK THAT PALM DESERT SHOULD REALLY BE PROUD OF THAT.
16 (APPLAUSE . )
5
17 MS . CRAIG : MY NAME IS KAY CRAIG. I LIVE AT 72-992
18 BEL AIR, PALM DESERT. I ' VE LIVED THERE FOR 32 YEARS . I ' M
19 NOT TOO FAR DISTANT FROM THIS PROJECT.
20 AND I THINK IT WOULD REQUIRE A WHOLE LOT MCRE �
i
21 STUDY. I WENT THROUGH THE BIG GAME PARKS IN NORTH AFRICA. I
22 I ' M TALKING, NOW, ABOUT KENYA AND TANZANIA. AND YOU ' LL
23 FIND THAT THOSE FLOCKS OF WILD ANIMALS INCREASE A GREAT I�
24 DEAL IF THEY ARE ISOLATED AND THEY HAVE A BUFFERED ZONE �
25 FROM EVEN THE OTHER ANIMALS . ,� �
26 I THINK A BUFFER ZONE IS VERY IMPORTANT
�Q
5 1 WHENEVER YOU ' RE TRYING TO INCREASE A HERD. AND, OF
2 COURSE , I THINK PALM DESERT IS PRETTY PROUD OF THE FACT
�
3 THAT WE DO HAVE THE BIGHORN SHEEP . AND I THINK IT COULD
4 BE BETTER KNOWN IF OUR PAPERS GAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE
5 PUBLICITY TO WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND WHAT THEY INTEND TO DO
6 IN THE FUTURE . I THINK A LITTLE BIT MORE STUDY SHOULD BE
7 GIVEN FROM ALL SIDES .
8 THANK YOU .
9 (APPLAUSE . )
10 MS . VASQUEZ : HI . MY NAME IS ELENA VASQUEZ , AND I '
11 LIVE AT 73-305 SAN GORGONIO WAY HERE IN PALM DESERT.
12 AND I 'VE LIVED HERE THE BETTER PART OF 30
13 YEARS . I ' M 34 , SO I 'M SURE YOU CAN FIGURE OUT WHEN I CAME
I
� I
14 HERE . j
15 THE REASON WHY I ' M SPEAKING IS BECAUSE I THINK ;
�
16 A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM HAVE NOT BEEN HERE THIS LONG . !
17 I MAY BE MISTAKEN, BUT THAT IS WHAT I SEEM TO SEE AROUND ;
18 HERE . WHETHER YOU ' RE A NEWCOMER, YOU ' RE OLDER OR ,
19 WHATEVER, IT DOESN ' T REALLY MATTER AS LONG AS YOU CARE
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20 ABOUT PALM DESERT. I
I
21 AND I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS A LITTLE KID, AND I
I
22 THEY FIRST CAME OUT TALKING ABOUT LIVING DESERT RESERVE . �
I
23 I WENT UP THERE WITH MY GIRL SCOUT TROOP . AND WE L�OKED �
�
24 AROUND, AND WE ALL LAUGHED BECAUSE IT LOOKED JUST LIKE 'I
i
�ir► 25 EVERYTHING ELSE IN PALM DESERT . THE REST OF PALM DESERT �
26 LOOKED VERY MUCH LIKE THE LIVING DESERT RESERVE LOOKS . IN '
;
Q Q
5 1 OTHER WORDS , IT WAS OPEN DESERT, ET CETERA. WE HAD G�IE
2 LITTLE MARKET, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. I ' M SURE YOU ' VE ALL ;,�;;�
3 HEARD THIS BEFORE .
4 MY POINT IS THAT SOMEBODY REALLY HAD FORESIGHT
5 BECAUSE WE LAUGHED THEN, AND NOW IT ' S SAD BECAUSE THAT IS
6 THE ONLY REAL DESERT WE HAVE AROUND HERE . SO SOMEBODY HAD
7 FORESIGHT. AND THEIR DREAM, THANK GOD FOR THE REST OF US ,
8 CAME TRUE . THEY WERE PIONEERS .
9 IT ' S THE SAME THING WITH THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE .
10 WE DON ' T KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IF THEY DON ' T HAVE
11 THIS BUFFER. AND BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE ARE PIONEERS , THEY
12 HAVE NO WAY OF TELLING YOU , "WELL, THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN
13 IF YOU TAKE AWAY OUR BUFFER. "
�
14 SO MY POINT IS , SINCE THESE PEOPLE HAVE HAD
15 FORESIGHT, THEY HAVE BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL IN WHAT THE�
16 HAVE SET OUT TO G^ SO FAR, ARE YOU WILLING TO TAKE THE
17 CHANCE , ARE YOU WILLING TO TAKE THE CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT
18 MAY HAPPEN TO THE BIGHORN SHEEP ZF YOU DON ' T HAVE THIS
19 BUFFER?
20 I ' D LIKE TO HEAR THAT FROM ALL OF YOU , THAT YDU '
i
21 ARE WILLING TO TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY AND THE
22 CONSEQUENCES FOR WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE BIGHORN SHEEP ,
23 BECAUSE _EN YEARS FROM NOW, IF YOU GO AHEAD AND APPROVE
24 THIS WITHOUT THE BUFFER, OKAY, MAYBE NOTHING WILL HAFPEN .
25 BUT MAYBE, ON THE OTHER HAND, SOMETHING WILL. TEN YEARS� i
26 FROM NOW, HOW MANY OF YOU ARE GOING TO BE HERE? YOU CON ' T
91
5 1 KNOW . YOU MAY BE UP IN CUCAMONGA OR WHATEVER. AND I ' D
2 LIKE TO KNOW WHERE WE CAN FIND YOU TO BLAME YOU, BECAUS�
�rr
3 YOU DO WANT TO LAY SOME BLAME ON PEOPLE .
4 SO I ' D LIKE TO KNOW IF ALL OF YOU HERE ARE
5 WILLING TO TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY AND PUT IT IN BLACK AND
6 WHITE .
7 THANK YOU .
8 (APPLAUSE . )
9 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: IS THERE ANYONE ELSE PRESENT WHO
10 WISHES TO SPEAK IN OPPOSITION?
11 MR. TYLER: MY NAME IS BOB TYLER. I LIVE AT 73-042
12 SKYWARD WAY IN PALM DESERT .
13 I WAS BORN IN THE COACHELLA VALLEY . I ' VE LIVED
� I
14 HERE ALMOST ALL MY LIFE . FOR MR. DOWNS ' BENEFIT , I THINK !
� 15 THE FIRST TIME I HAD A HAMBURGER IN KEEDY ' S WAS IN 1957 OR '
16 ' S8 .
17 I 'VE TRIED TO COME TO MOST OF THE MEETINGS
18 REGARDING THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE, AND I 'VE MADE IT TO MOST
19 OF THEM. ONE THING I HAVE NOTICED RIGHT FROM THE FIRST
20 WAS THAT BEING A SUPPORTER OF THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE HAS
21 BEEN KIND OF AN UPHILL BATTLE; THAT THERE ' S BEEN A LOT OF
,
22 HARSH CRITICISM OF THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE .
23 AND I THINK, ESSENTIALLY, WHAT I WANT TO S�Y
24 IS , THEY 'RE TRYING TO DO THE BEST JOB THEY CAN TO HELP THE
� 25 SHEEP IN WHATEVER WAY THEY CAN, AND IT ' S REALLY liP TO YOU
26 GUYS .
92
5 1 AND IT ' S BEEN A TRADE-OFF BETWEEN ARE THE SHEEP
2 MORE IMPORTANT THAN A DEVELOPMENT OR IS THE ENVIRONMENT �
3 MORE IMPORTANT THAN MONEY? AND THE WAY IT LOOKS FROM THE
6
4 CROWD THAT ' S HERE TONIGHT, I WOULD SAY THAT MONEY IS FAR
5 MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE ENVIRONMENT . BUT I DON ' T -- I
6 DON ' T AGREE WITH IT.
7 I FEEL LIKE , BEZNG HERE AND LISTENING TO SOME
8 OF THE COMMENTS AND T�E CHEERING IN THE BACK, I KNOW KIND
9 OF HOW NEVZLLE CHAMBERLAIN MUST HAVE FELT . BUT YOU HA�IE
10 TO SAY IT, AND I THINK YOU SHOULD DO WHATEVER YOU CAN TO
11 HELP THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE , HOWEVER YOU CAN .
12 THANK YOU.
13 (APPLAUSE . )
�
14 MR. MARONEY : MY NAME IS TIMOTHY MARONEY. I LIVE AT
15 46-040 SHADOW MOUNTAIN DRIVE . I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY
16 THAT I 'M OPPOSED TO THE PROJECT.
17 (APPLAUSE . )
18 MR. ROBERTS : KENT ROBERTS AGAIN. JUST ONE CLOSING
19 REMARK.
20 I HAVE TOLD THIS TO JIM HAYHOE, T00, SO IT ' S NO ;
21 SECRET . WE WOULD BOTH LIKE TO COME OUT WINNERS . I THINK
22 IF YOU FORGOT ABOUT PAST HISTORY AND YOU FORGOT ABOUT ALL
23 THE OTHER THINGS , THAT YOU WOULD AGREE THAT THERE IS A i
24 CONSENSUS IN THE E . I . R. ' S THAT THE BUFFER WOULD BE GOOD
25 FOR THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE, WE `AN SURVIVE AND WE CAN ''� '
26 CONTINUE OUR PROGRAMS AND REPOPULATE THE SANTA ROSA
93
6 1 MOUNTAINS . AND I REALLY THINK THAT WOULD BE , IF WE DIDN ' �
2 HAVE THE OTHER ISSUES , WHAT THEY CALL A SLAM-DUNK TONIGHT .
�
3 MR. HAYHOE DOES NEED TO HAVE AN ECONOMICALLY
4 SOUND PROJECT. WE HAVE PREPARED AND SENT TO MR. DIAZ A
5 NUMBER OF SUGGESTIONS ON CONCEPTS LIKE DESERT ISLAND ,
6 LOOKING AT WHAT THE E. I . R. SAID AS FAR AS DENSITY . AND WE
7 TRULY BELIEVE THAT IN THE REMAINING LAND THAT ' S LEFT AFTER
8 THIS BUFFER THAT IS PROPOSED BY THE E. I . R. CONSULTANT,
9 THAT WITH SOME FORESIGHT , WITH SOME IMAGINATION, TEAMI'1G
10 UP WITH THE CITY , RECOGNIZING THE NEEDS OF THE DEVELOPER,
11 THAT THIS COULD BE A GOOD PROJECT AND STILL HAVE THE
12 NUMBER OF UNITS TO MAKE IT AN ECONOMICALLY SOUND PROJECT .
13 THAT ' S STILL OUR GOAL. AND NO ONE ' S TALKED ABOUT THAT YET
�
14 TONIGHT AT ALL.
15 AND I THINK THAT THE E . I . R. BASICALLY TOUCHED �
16 ON IT AND I THINK CERTAINLY , BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE IS DONE ,
17 IS THAT IT DESERVES STUDY. I MEAN IT REALLY DOES . YOU
18 HAVE A LOT OF NICE PROJECTS IN PALM IIESERT, AND THEY ' RE
19 NOT ALL SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES , TWO UNITS TO AN ACRE .
20 THERE ' S A LOT OF DIFFERENT PLANS OUT THERE . �
21 AND I ' VE BEEN TO SOME OF THOSE . JIM TEMPLE HAS BUZLT A �
22 NUMBER OF PROJECTS THAT I THINK ARE OUTSTANDING WITH SOME i
23 HIGHER-DENSITY PATTERNS WHERE THEY USED A LOT OF �
24 IMAGINATION. ;
�
�' 25 AND WE WOULD HOPE THAT, ONCE AGAIN, MAYBE WE
26 COULD LOOK AT A SITUATION WHERE BOTH OF US COULD HAVE WHAT �
Q�
6 1 WE WANT . AND IF YOU COULD AC�EPT THE FACT THAT THE BUFF�R
2 IS SOMETHING THAT THE E . I . R. �PPORTS , THEN T�E QUESTIOrI
�
3 IS : ON THE REMAINING ACREAGE , CAN MR. HAYHOE HAVE A
4 VIABLE PROJECT? AND I BELIEVE THE ANSWER ZS YES , BUT HERE
5 AGAIN, I CAN ' T DESIGN IT AND I CAN ' T SPEAK FOR MR. HAYHOE .
6 BUT IT IS IN THE CITY ' S INTEREST, I THINK, TO
7 DO IT. AND YOU PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER TO MAKE IT HAPPEN .
8 AND WE 'VE TALKED ABOUT -- I THINK UNDER THE CURRENT
9 ZOr� iG , I THINK RAY TOLD ME THERE ' S A 25-FOOT HEIGHT
10 LIM =ATION, WHICH IS BASICALLY TWO-STORY . AND WE HAVE
11 SUGGESTED, PER�APS , LIKE A DESERT ISLAND CONCEPT, HAVING A
12 LOT FEWER BUILDINGS AND BUILDING SOMETHING MAYBE THREE-
13 AND FOUR-STORY WHICH, OBVIOUSLY, TAKES LESS ACREAGE .
14 AND I KNOW MR. HAYHOE IS CURRENTLY, I BELIEVE�
15 PLANNING ON BUILDING AN�THER 50-SOME-ODD UNITS , I BELIEVE
16 AT THE DESERT ISLAND PROJECT IN RANCHO MIRAGE , SO WE KNOW
17 THAT IT WORKS .
18 AND HERE, AGAIN, IT ' S A QUESTION OF WHAT DO YOU
19 PEOPLE WANT? AND I THINK IF YOU WANT BOTH, YOU CAN HAVE
20 BOTH .
21 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : MR. ROBERTS , LET ME ASK, YOU
22 SOMETHING, SINCE YOU ' RE SPEAKING ABOUT SOME ECONOMICS OF
23 LAND . THE AMOUNT OF B"FFER THAT YOU ' RE TALKING ABOUT, HOW
2� MANY ACRES DOES THAT AMOUNT T0 , IN THE PROPOSAL THAT YOU ' D
25 LIKE? �;
26 MR. ROBERTS : I THINK THE E . I . R. -- Z THINK IT ' S
I G �
6 1 TWO -- IT ' S REALLY TWO FIGURES . I THINK IT ' S 116 , B�T
� 2 THERE WAS PROBABLY 12 OR -- WELL, PROBABLY 15 OR 16 OF
3 THOSE ACRES WERE NOT GOING TO BE DEVELOPED , ANYWAY . THAT
4 WAS IN THAT ONE SECTION WHERE IT WAS HILLSIDE .
5 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : SO EVEN IF IT ' S 100 ACRES ,
6 OKAY?
7 MR. ROBERTS : YEAH. WE ' LL SAY --
8 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : 100 ACRES .
9 WHAT WOULD YOU ESTIMATE THE CURRENT VALUE OF
10 THAT LAND ZS?
11 MR. ROBERTS : I DON ' T HAVE THE SLIGHTEST IDEA . I
12 GUESS THEY 'VE BEEN PAYING 70 , 000 PER ACRE , WHATEVER PEOPLE
13 HAVE BEEN PAYING FOR IT TODAY. THERE AGAIN, IT ' S -- WELL,
�
14 I THINK THAT ' S WHAT HE PAID FOR IT . I MEAN I CAN ' T --
15 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : OKAY .
16 MR. ROBERTS : HE CAN CERTAINLY ADDRESS THAT QUESTION .
17 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : THEN THE NUMBERS ARE THAT
18 THAT ' S SEVEN MILLION?
19 MR. ROBERTS : YEAH .
20 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : OKAY . NOW, WHEN YOU START
7
21 TALKING -- PUTTING THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE , HOW MANY SHE�P
22 WERE RELEASED LAST YEAR, OR LAMBS? I DON ' T KNOW . THIS IS
23 JUST A QUESTION. OKAY?
24 MR. ROBERTS : WE RELERSED A TOTAL OF 30 . SO WE ' RE
�ir
25 AVERAGING FIVE OR SIX PER YEAR. IT DEPENDS . I MEAN Im
26 DEPENDS ON HOW MANY WE HAVE BORN AND HOW LONG •�E KEE?
1
96
7 1 THEM .
2 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : OKAY . SO IN THE HISTORY OF�
3 THE INSTITUTE , IT ' S 30 OVER FIVE OR SIX YEARS .
4 MR. ROBERTS : THAT ' S ABOUT -- I THINK IT ' S OVER HALr
5 � THE POPULATION OF THE NORTHERN SANTA ROSA MOUNTAINS , AS
6 FAR AS WE KNOW.
7 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : OKAY . THE PROBLEM THAT SOME
8 OF US ARE HAVING IS -- IT ' S A SIMPLE THING THAT WE ' RE
9 TALKING ABOUT. WHAT ' S WORTH WHAT AND WHAT ISN ' T WORTH
10 WHAT .
11 YOU TALKED ABOUT A DESERT ISLAND PROJECT, GO LP
12 IN THE SKY . WE GET LYNCHED AROUND HERE WHEN WE MENTION
13 TWO STORIES . LYNCHING STARTS OCCURRING OUTSIDE . OKAY?
�
14 IF YOU ASK MR. HAYHOE HOW HE ' S DOING WITH HIS RANCHO
15 MIRAGE PROJECT -- WHY DON ' T YOU ASK HIM?
16 WHERE IS THAT PROJECT? GONE , RIGHT?
17 MR. HAYHOE : RIGHT.
18 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : WHY? BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE
19 THESE PEOPLE HERE SAID, "WE DON ' T WANT YOD UP THERE
i
20 LOOKING DOWN AT US . " '�
21 SO THERE ' S JUST AN AWFUL LOT OF OTHER SUBJECTS
22 THAT HAVE TO LIVE IN THE SAME COMMUNITY . AND WHEN YOU ASK
23 A DEVELOPER TO GIVE AWAY SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF
24 PROJECT AND THEN THE QUESTION COMES UP, WHO ' S GGING TO GET ,
25 THE BUFFER? WHO ' S GOING TO MAINTAIN IT? WHO ' S GOING TO"'�
26 PAY TAXES ON IT? WH� ' S GOING TO GET IT? WHAT ' S GOING TO
I
7 1 HAPPEN TO IT?
2 WHY WEREN ' T YOU LOOKING FOR A BUFFER BEFORE?
;�
3 THERE IS NO BUFFER NOW . I GO UP THERE WITH MY DOG ALL THE
4 � TIME , WITH MY TWO DOGS . I MEAN YOU ' RE ASKING FOR SIX TO
�
5 1200 FEET -- OR YARDS OF A BUFFER THAT DOESN ' T EXIST NOW,
6 AND YOU ' VE BEEN SUCCESSFUL. YOU CAN DRIVE VEHICLES THERE
7 NOW. MAYBE NOT LEGALLY , BUT THEY DO .
8 MR. ROBERTS : I JUST CAME UP HERE TO SAY THAT , ONCE
9 AGAIN, IF WE COULD HAVE A WIN-WIN SITUATION, HOW WOULG IT
10 BE?
11 COMMISSIOI�IER RICHARDS : YOU WRITE THEM A CHECK FOR
12 SEVEN MILLION AND YOU HAVE A WIN-WIN SITUATION .
13 (APPLAUSE . )
�
14 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : I 'M SORRY , MR. ROBERTS . I ' M
15 TRYING TO FIGURE IT IN SIMPLE WAYS .
16 MR. ROBERTS : I UNDERSTAND. I ' M JUST SAYING THE ONL'i
17 REASON I CAME UP HERE THE LAST PART WAS SIMPLY TO SAY THA�
18 I WOULD LIKE THE CITY TO EXPLORE THE ALTERNATIVES . YOli
19 TALK ABOUT LYNCHING . I HOPE IT ' S NOT THAT BAD . BUT THE
20 TRUTH IS THAT -- '
21 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : I ' VE BEEN HERE 12 YEARS , AND
22 IT GETS WORSE.
23 MR. ROBERTS : WELL, I WAS JUST SAYING THIS IS A
24 DECISION BY THE CITY , THAT THE CITY ' S GOING TO HAVE A LOT
� 25 OF SAY-SO ABOUT. AND WE ' RE SIMPLY SAYING THAT , YOU KN06v,
26 IF YOU DON ' T WANT THE INSTITUTE THERE , IT WON ' T BE T:iE�Z� .
� Ga
7 1 THERE ' S NO QUESTION ABOL'T IT . SO -- YOU KNOW, THAT C�N
2 HAPPEN .
�
3 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : IT ' S ALWAYS -- MR . ROBERTS ,
4 YOU ARE THE SPOKESMAN. OKAY? I ' M SORRY . DE FORGE WAS
5 HERE ALL NIGHT . WHEN THE OPPOSITION STARTED , HE LEFT .
6 WHEN HE WAS CALLED FOR, HE LEFT. OKAY?
7 MR. ROBERTS : OKAY .
8 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : NOW , YOU ARE THE SPOKESMAN .
9 MR. ROBERTS : OKAY .
10 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : I ' M SORRY . BUT YOU ' RE
11 STANDING THERE .
12 WHEN YOU SAY "ALL OR NOTHING, " THAT ' S THE ONLY
13 THING WE ' VE EVER HEARD HERE. WE ' VE GOT TESTIMONY HERE
14 THAT SAYS CLEARLY THAT THE SUBJECT MATTER IS VERY SKETCH`1�
15 WE HAVE OPINIONS ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT GOES ALL OVER THE
16 BOARD. YET YOU STAND UP HERE AND SAY "ALL OR NOTHING . "
17 MR. ROBERTS : NO.
18 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : MOST OF THE TESTIMONY TALKS
19 ABOUT THINGS THAT WE HAVEN ' T EVEN COVERED.
20 MR. ROBERTS : I 'M TRYING NOT TO, MR. RICHARDS . I ' M
21 SAYING THAT THE E . I . R. CONSULTING REPORT MAKES THAT
22 RECOMMENDATZON, NOT ME . WE SIMPLY SUPPORT IT. AIv'D THE
23 QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THEY ARRIVED AT THAT REALLY SHOL'T� BE
24 DIRECTED TO THEM. I MEAN I THINK THAT IN ALL FAIF. , WE
25 DIDN ' T PREPARE THE REPORT AND WE DIDN ' T PREPARE THL ..�ST�
26 ONE . YOU KNOW , WE ' RE IN THIS , I GUESS , THE BAD POSIiION
i
I � �
7 1 OF SUPPORTING SOMETHING THAT WE THINK IS RIGHT .
2 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : WELL, AT THE RISK OF BEi:7� --
�
3 I DON ' T KNOW . IT SEEMS LIKE -- WELL, THIS IS THE FIRST
4 EXPOSURE I ' VE HAD TO WHAT I THINK IS THE SAME KIND Or A
5 GAME THAT BIG BUSIPdESS PLAYS . IF CIGARETTE COMPANIES GE'I'
6 IN TROUBLE , THE LIFE INSURANCE COMPANIES GET IN TROUBLE
7 AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THE LETTERS OF SUPPORT ARE COMING FRG:�
8 EVERYWHERE .
9 I 'VE NEVER SEEN A SUBJECT LIKE THIS . LETTERS
10 CAME FROM EVERY BIOLOGIST IN THE WORLD WHO HADN ' T BEEN
11 HERE -- ANYWHERE NEAR THE SITE . I HAD PEOPLE STANDING LP
12 HERE IN FOUR PUBLIC TESTIMONIES THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN NEAR
13 THAT SITE . THEY DON ' T KNOW WHAT 400 YARDS , 600 YARDS
�
14 LOOKS LIKE .
15 I 'VE BEEN ON THE SITE , I LIVE CLOSE TO IT . aND
16 I QUESTION STILL -- FROM YOU , BECAUSE YOU ' RE THE GliY . THE
17 OTHER GUY LEFT -- WHY DO YOU NEED SIX TO 1200 YARDS?
18 MR. ROBERTS : WELL, YOU ' RE ASKING ME TO GIVE YOU A
19 BIOLOGICAL ANSWER, AND I GUESS I ' LL TRY THE BEST THAT I
20 CAN.
21 WE HAVE CONSISTENTLY TALKED ABOUT -- AND rOR
S
22 THOSE OF YOU THAT HEARD JIM TALK OR OTHER PEOPLE FR0�1 THE
23 INSTITUTE , I THINK YOU WOULD RECOGNIZE THAT BIGHORN SHEEP
24 ARE A DIFFERENT TYPE OF A SPECIES . THEY HAVE THE BES�
� 25 ANIMAL -- EXCUSE ME -- THE BEST SIGHT IN THE ANIMAL
26 INCOME -- ANIMAL KINGDOM. I BELIEVE IT ' S EQUIVALENT , �HE'i
i � �� 1
8 1 THINK, OF ABOUT EIGHT-POWERED BINOCULARS . IN GTHE? wC�uS ,
2 IT IS FANTASTIC . AND , OF COliRSE , OVER PERICDS OF MIiLTO.�S
3 OF YEARS , THEY 'VE USED THAT SIGHT TO BASICALLY SFOT WH�T �
4 THEY CALL INTRUDERS . AND THOSE INTRUDERS CAN BE -- I:r
5 THEIR MINDS , I GUESS , THEY CAN BE PEOPLE , THEY CAN BE
6 WHATEVER, BE DOGS , WHATEVER IT IS . AND THEY ' RE VERY
7 SENSITIVE TO THAT . AND THE FACT THAT THERE USED TO BE A
8 MILLION AND A HALF OF THEM SAYS THEY DON ' T DO REAL WELL
9 WHEN THEY COME IN CONTACT WITH HUMAN BEINGS AND WHAT THAT
10 REPRESENTS .
11 I CAN ' T CHANGE THAT . I DO KNOW -- AND I THINK
12 IT ' S FULLY SUPPORTED . ONCE AGAIN, IT ' S IN THE E . I . R.
13 REPORT . THERE ' S A SECTION THAT SAYS THAT WHEN THEY
14 VISITED THE FIELD THAT THEY WERE WITHIN 470 YARDS OF THE�`
15 LAMBING PEN, AND THEY FLED OVER THE HILL WHEN THEY SAW
16 THEM .
17 NOW, ONCE AGAIN --
18 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : THERE ' S ALSO A SECTION THAT
19 TALKS ABOUT HOW THAT IS VERY -- THAT HAPPENS TO ANIMALS
20 WITHIN THE PENNING AREA.
�,
21 AND THAT ' S THE PROBLEM. MOST OF THIS STUFP -- '
22 RND I READ IT ALL. MOST OF THIS STUFF TALKS ABOUT AN�:�?ALS
23 IN THE WILD. VERY LITTLE , IF ANY OF IT, TALKS ABOUT WHaT
24 YOU GUYS ARE DOING . AND WE ' RE TRYING TO FIGL'RE OL'T WHAT
25 YOU ' RE DOING . '
�
26 MR. ROBERTS : I GL'ESS I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT -- Y��
_Oi
8 1 KNOW , ONCE AGAIN , IT SHOULD BE , I THINK, FROM OUR MISSiG.d
�, 2 STATEMENT, WE ARE DOING RESEARCH ON TRYING TO DISCOVER WH'%
3 BIGHORN SHEEP ARE DYING OFF IN THE SANTA ROSA MOUNTAINS .
4 AND IT ' S A PROBLEM NOT ONLY HERE , BUT IN MANY OTHER STATES
5 ALSO .
6 AND IT IS A FACT, AND IT ' S BEEN ESTABLISHED BY
7 U. S . FISH AND WILDLIFE , EVERYBODY ELSE , THAT OVER
8 90 PERCENT OF THE LAMBS ARE DYING EACH YEAR. THIS YEAR IT
9 WAS 100 PER CENT .
10 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : THAT ' S HERE . '
11 MR. ROBERTS : THEY DON ' T SURVIVE .
12 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : THAT ' S JUST HERE . ,
13 MR. ROBERTS : YES .
� !
14 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : JUST HERE IN THE SANTA ROSAS . '
�
15 MR. ROBERTS : WELL, IN OTHER CASES IT MAY BE HIGH
16 ALSO , BUT IT ' S THE WORST HERE . ;
17 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : ONE OF THE THINGS WE "JE GOT �
�
18 TO DO IS READ ALL ABOUT THESE DAMNED ANIMALS EVERYWHERE . ',
I
19 MR. ROBERTS : SURE . �
20 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : AND THEY ' RE NOT DYING
�
21 EVERYWHERE ELSE . THEY ' RE DYING HERE . AND I ' M WILLING
�
22 TO --
23 MR. ROBERTS : NO. MR. RICHARDS , I THINK WHAT THE �
24 FISH AND GAME HAS SAID ALSO IS THAT THE NUMBERS HAVE
I
I
�
25 DECREASED DRAMATICALLY OVER THE PAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS '�'0
26 WHERE THIS ENTIRE SPECIES IS DOWI�1 TO 400 IN THE STATE OF
i
I
1 J C
8 1 CALIFORNIA . THAT ' S PART OF THE PROBLEM.
2 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : THE SAME GENTLEMAN SAID THA"
�
3 IT ' S A CYCLICAL PROBLEM, AND THIS HAS HAPPENED MANY TIMES
4 IN THE PAST .
5 � MR. ROBERTS : ALL I CAN -- YOU KNOW , ONCE AGAIN , I
6 HAVE TO FALL BACK ON THE E . I . R. REPORT . THE CONSL'LTANT
7 MADE A RECOMMENDATION BASED ON WHAT THEY FELT WAS
8 APPROPRIATE . I DIDN ' T MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION, THEY DID .
9 COMMIS� cR RICHARDS : WE ' RE HERE TO GcT THE FACTS .
10 THAT ' S WHY I ' M ASKING YOU QUESTIONS .
11 MR. ROBERTS : I ' M TRYING TO --
12 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : CAN YOU STOP THERE A MINUTE AND
13 ASK THE CONSULTANT WHAT THEY ACTUALLY SAID?
�
:.4 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : SURE.
15 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : THEY ' RE HERE . HE KEEPS
16 REFERRING TO IT.
17 WHAT DID YOU SAY?
18 MS . ADAMS : I APPRECIATE THAT OPPORTUNITY .
19 THE E . I .R. DOESN ' T RECOMMEND A BUFFER AT ALL.
20 THE E . I . R. DOES NOT RECOMMEND WHAT THE CONSULTING
21 BIOLOGIST RECOMMENDED.' THE CONSULTING BIOLOGIST ' S
22 RECOMMENDATION WAS NOT EVEN THAT OR AN OPINION , AND IT ' S
23 STATED VERY CLEARLY IN HIS REPORT.
24 WHA_ THEY DID WAS , THEY EXAMINED ALL OF THE
25 OPINIONS OF THE 29 EXPERTS RESPONDING AND TRIED TO COME �
26 WITH THEIR POINT OF VIEW BASED ON THAT AND THE LITERATLRE
���
8 1 REVIEW ABOUT WHRT ? L WEIGHT OF THE EVIDENCE SliGGESTS TO
2 THEM . THAT EVIDENCE IS ADMITTEDLY SUBJECT TO DIFFERENT
�
3 INTERPRETATIONS .
4 THAT IS WHY THE E . I . R. PROVIDES THE
5 DECISION-MAKERS WITH ALTERNATIVE ROUTES IN MITIGATION .
6 AND THIS E . I . R. MAKES NO RECOMMENDATION FOR 600 AND 800 TO
7 AN 800-YARD BUFFER.
8 AND, IN FACT, I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT TO THE
9 PLANNING COMMISSION THAT MOST OF THE EXPERTS RESPONDING
10 AND THE LITERATURE SPEAK OF THE MOST SENSITIVE DISTANCE
11 BEING DISTANCE FROM THE LAMBING AREA. THE BUFFERS , FOR
12 CERTAIN REASONS , HAVE BEEN MEASURED FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE
13 PEN. WE ARE INFORMED BY MR. DE FORGE ' S COMMUNICATIONS IN '
`'� '
14 WRITING THAT THAT IS NOT THE LAMBING AREA AT THE BOTTOM OF '�
�
15 THE PEN.
16 THE -- THERE IS DISPUTE ON THIS POINT AS TO HOW
17 MUCH THE BUFFER SHOULD BE . ONE BIOLOGIST SAID A QUARTER
18 OF A MILE FROM THE LAMBING AREA. THAT IS 440 YARDS . A
19 QUARTER OF A MILE IS 440 YARDS . THE BIOLOGIST EXPLAINS
I
20 HOW THE -- THE CONSULTING BIOLOGISTS , HOW THEY DREW THE I
21 CONCLUSIONS THEY DID ON 600 TO 800 YARDS BEING THE -- WHAT '
I
22 THEY CONSIDERED TO BE THE WEIGHT OF THE EVIDENCE . �
I
23 BUT THERE ARE EXPERTS WHO HAVE -- WEIGHT OF THE �
I
24 EVIDENCE IS NOT NUMEROSITY . WEIGHT OF THE EVIDENCE HAD TO I
i
i
� 25 DO WITH A NUMBER OF FACTORS AND JUDGMENTS PLUS , AS THE
9
26 BIOLOGIST ADMITS ON PAGE 109 OF THE E . I . R. , A 50 P�RCEVT
��
� J Z
9 1 SAFETY FACTOR THAT THEY CONSIDERED WAS IMPORTANT THAT NaS
2 ON _ SUGGESTED BY A FEW BIOLOGISTS REPORTING .
�
3 NOW, THAT ' S NOT TO SAY THAT THE CONSULTI.,G
4 BIOLOGIST IS INCORRECT . IT IS JUST TO SAY THAT THAT IS
5 ONE INTERPRETATZON OF THE DATR RECEIVED. AND I ' VE
6 ATTEMPTED, IN THE BIOLOGICAL RESOURCES SECTIODI, TO TELL
7 YOU WHAT OTHER POSSIBLE INTERPRETATIONS THERE ARE AND
8 BASED ON THE EXPERTS REPORTING .
9 I THINK THE SENSITIVITY T'J THE LAMBI�i1 AREA AND
10 THE DISTANCE FROM THE LAMBIDiG AREA AS OPPOSED TO THE
11 BOTTOM OF THE PEN, WHICH WAS WHAT WAS MEASURED BY THE
12 EXPERTS , WHAT WAS REPORTED BY THEM TO BE THE SENSITIVE
13 INTERFACE , SHOULD BE IMPORTANT TO YOU IN YOUR
�
14 CONSIDERATIOIJ AND THE -- AND THE FACT THAT THE SHEEP --
15 THE HABITUATION. WHETHER OR NOT HABITUATION TO HUMANS IS
16 A GOOD THING OR A BAD THING FOR THE SHEEP.
17 THE MOST FAMOUS -- ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS
18 PEOPLE RESPONDING HAS PUBLISHED -- IS WIDELY PUBLISHED AND
19 REGARDED AS AN AUTHORITY IN THE IDEA THAT HABITUATION IS
20 GOOD FOR THE SHEEP BECAUSE IT TENDS TO REDUCE THEIR STRESS ,
21 LEVEL IN CAPTIVITY AND -- AND IT CAN BE RESOLVED IN �
22 REINTRODUCTION . AND THAT THE HABITUATION IS GOOD TO THE
23 LOKG-TERM WHEN THEY ' RE RELEASED, BECAUSE THEY TEND NOT TO
24 BE SO SKITTISH AND UPSET WHEN THEY SEE OTHER HUMAN
25 INFLUENCES . THE -- AND I GUESS I WOULD LIKE TO PUT A �
26 PERIOD THERE .
_c �
9 1 � THE E . I . R. -- I ' VE SAT HERE FOR SEVERhL HO�RS
2 AND LISTENED TO WHAT THE E . I . R. SAYS . AND I KNOW �vHAT I�
�
3 SAYS , AND IT DOESN ' T SAY THAT . IT REPORTS ALL OF THE
� OPINIONS , THE CONSULTING BIOLOGIST BEING ONE .
5 � COMMISSIONER DOWNS : OKAY .
6 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: THANK YOU , MS . ADAMS .
7 (APPLAUSE . )
8 MR. ROBERTS : I WILL AGREE THAT I ' M JUST AS CONFL'SLD
9 AS YOU ARE , MR. RICHARDS , SO I ' D BETTER SIT DOWN , BEC�liSE
10 THIS IS MY BEST SHOT AT IT .
11 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD : MR. ROBERTS , BEFORE YOU GO --
12 MR. ROBERTS : SURE .
13 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD: -- I HAVE ONE QUESTIO^I .
�
14 MR. ROBERTS : YES , SIR.
15 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD : AND I JUST NEED MY RECOLLECTION
16 REFRESHED, BECAUSE I 'M UNCLEAR.
17 ON PAGE 210 OF THE E . I . R. , IT INDICATED THAT
18 THE BIGHORN ADVISORY. -- I GUESS IT ' S COMMITTEE --
19 MR. ROBERTS : YES .
20 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD : -- RECOMMENDED A BUFFER 400 TO
21 600 YARDS . IN THERE IT TALKS RBOUT WITH AN EXTENSiOti .
22 WHEN -- WHEN THE -- AT THE FIRST PUBLIC HEARI:�G
23 WE HAD ON THIS , WHAT WAS THE INSTITUTE ' S POSITION AS T�
24 THE BUFFER, BECAUSE NOW I ' M SEEING THAT THE BIGHORN
� 25 INSTITUTE WANTS 800 TO 1500 YARDS , AND MY RECOLLECTT�.a �TS
26 THAT IT WASN 'T THAT BIG BEFORE .
�
10�
9 1 MR. ROBERTS : TO TRY AND DESCRIBE IT, IT START�D A?'
2 400 YARDS AND WENT UP TO THAT SECTION OF LAND I �vAS
�
3 TALKING ABOliT, WHICH WAS NOT GOING TO BE DEVELOPED, THAT
4 KNOLL THAT STICKS OUT . AND THEN IN THE E . I . R. -- THE
5 FIRST E . I . R. , THEY CAME OUT WITH, ESSENTIALLY, ALMOST THE
6 SAME THING, BUT IT WAS EXTENDED TO THE NORTHEAST SECTION .
7 AND WE SAID IF THAT ' S WHAT THE BIOLOGICAL CONCERNS ARE ,
8 WE ' LL JUST T� ,K THAT ON TO OURS ALSO .
S . �AT WAS BASICALLY WHAT WAS DONE . I THINK
lu THAT ' S -- I TH�NK IT ' S SPELLEL OUT IN THE CURRENT E . I . R.
11 IT SHOWS A MAP THAT SHOWS BIGHORN ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND
12 THEN IT SAYS AT THE TOP THAT THIS WAS A -- ADDITIONAL
13 WHATEVER. I 'M TRYING TO REMEMBER THE LANGUAGE .
�
14 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD : SO THIS WAS DOD1E AFTER YOU REAQ
15 THE FIRST E . I . R. ?
16 MR. F.OBERTS : YES .
17 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD : YOU THOUGHT THAT THE BUFFER
18 THAT, I GUESS , ORIGINALLY WAS PROPOSED BY THE INSTITUTE
19 WAS NOT ADEQUATE?
20 MR. ROBERTS : NO. WE REALLY -- THE E . I . R. CAME OUT i
��
21 WITH AN EXTENDED BUFFER TO THE NORTHEAST . AND THEY FELT '
22 THAT THAT WAS CORRECT, AND WE JUST SAID, "WELL, WE ' LL ;
2 3 AGREE WITH TE:AT. "
24 r�ND THEN YOUR OTHE..�. QUESTION IS -- THE �TAFF
25 HAS LOOKED A : THIS , AND THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE 800 YARDS �
26 NOW, THAT ' S THEIR PERSONAL OPINION . ONCE AGAIN, YOU ' VE
i .
_ �-;
9 1 GOT 5 , 000 EXPERTS TO PROVE FROM.
�,,,,; 2 WE HAVE SIMPLY SAID , AND AS A REPRESENTaTI'IE Oc
3 THE INSTITUTE TONIGHT , THAT WE HOPE -- WE BELIEVE WE C�N
4 LIVE WITH THE E . I . R. BIOLOGICAL CONSULTANT ' S
�
5 RECOMMENDATION AND NOT GET MYSELF INTO HOT WATER, WHICH IS
6 THE ONE I ' VE BEEN QUOTING TONIGHT .
7 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : SEEMS LIKE THAT ONCE YOli ' RE
8 TELLING US --
9 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : HOLD IT . JIM, CAN WE GET ONE
10 MORE QUESTION IN FIRST?
11 HE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT THE STAFF
12 RECOMMENDED.
� 13 MR. ROBERTS : WHAT OUR STAFF RECOMMENDED .
14 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : WAS WHAT? '
15 MR. ROBERTS : I THINK IT WAS 800 YARDS , WHICH IS A
16 MINIMUM.
17 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : BUT WHERE IS THAT FROM?
18 MR. ROBERTS : THAT ' S FROM, PROBABLY , THE -- WHERE
19 THEY 'VE BEEN DRAWING ALL OF THE LINES , I THINK, IN ALL THE
20 E . I . R. ' S , WHICH IS THE BOTTOM OF THE PENS , I BELIEVE . '
21 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : BUT WHERE IS THE BOTTOM OF THE
22 PEN? IS THAT THE PERIMETER OF THE PEN OR IS THAT WHERE
23 THE LAMBING HOUSES ARE?
10
24 MR. ROBERTS : THAT ' S THE BOTTOM OF THE PEN.
�
25 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : N0 , YOU HAVEN ' T ANSWERED --
26 MR. ROBERTS : EXCUSE ME . THAT WOULD BE THE -- `iE� .
i ,
10 1 I THINK THE LINE -- AND MAYBE ANDY CAT1 HEi.P "��J
2 ON THIS . I THINK THE L�NES THEY ' VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT A�
�
3 FAR AS YARDAGE START AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PEN FACILITY ,
4 THE CHAIN LINK FENCE .
5 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : IS THAT CORRECT, PHIL?
6 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : WELL, ALL THE BUFFER LINES
7 THAT ARE BEING DRAWN ARE FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE PEN LI�dES .
8 AND WHAT ANDY IS SAYING IS THAT YOU DO NOT
9 NECESSARILY HAVE TO MEASURE THE BUFFER LINES FROM THE
10 BOTTOM OF THE PEN LINES . YOU COULD ALSO MEASURE THEM FROM
11 THE AREA OF THE PENS THAT THE LAMBING ACTIVITY IS ACTUALLY
12 TAKING PLACE .
13 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : THAT ' S WHAT I THOUGHT THE E . I . P '
� ;
14 SAID, BASICALLY, THAT THE EXPERTS SAID FROM THE LAMBING '
15 AREA ITSELF, NOT FROM THE CHAIN LINK FENCE . HOW FAR IS IT
16 FROM THE CHAIN LINK FENCE TO THE LAMBING AREA?
17 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE : 800 YARDS .
18 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : NO, NO, NO. IT ' S ONLY A
19 SMALL AREA.
20 MR. ROBERTS : I DON ' T REALLY KNOW. I
�
21 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : 20 YARDS , 30 YARDS .
�I
22 MR. ROBERTS : I THINK YOU ' RE RIGHT. ;
23 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : MR. ROBERTS , ONE OF THE �
I
24 THINGS -- ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU GUYS WANT L'S TO �
25 ACCEPT IS THAT BECAUSE YOU RE SUCCESSFUL, WHAT YOU SaY , I
� �
26 NOBODY SHOULD DISPUTE BECAUSE YOU ' RE DOING IT . AND YOli ' �:E
��J i
i0 1 COME OUT AND YOU ' VE TOLD US THAT YOli -- THAT , "WE NEED a
2 BUFFER, BECAUSE WE ' RE SUCCESSFUL AND WE NEED IT . "
�r
3 NOW YOU ' RE TELLING US THAT BECAUSE THE
�
4 ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT SUGGESTED THAT YOU NEED -- YGL'
i
5 � COliLD USE THESE OTHER 400 YARDS AND THIS OTHER ACREr�GE
6 THAT YOU JUST NOW SAID, "WELL, WE ' LL DO THAT ONE . " I
7 MEAN , YOU KNOW --
8 MR. ROBERTS : N0 , WHAT I --
9 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : WE ' RE TRYING TO FIND OliT --
10 MR. ROBERTS : OKAY .
11 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : I ' M TRYING TO FIi1D OUT ,
12 REALLY , WHAT THE HELL YOU DO AND WHY YOU NEED TO DO IT .
13 MR. ROBERTS : WE WERE THE FIRST ONES , ALL ON OUR OWN,
� '
14 THAT PROPOSED A BUFFER TO THIS CITY WELL BEFORE ThE FIRST '
15 E . I . R. CONSULTANT EVEN GOT INTO THE PICTURE . N06�, YOli ';
i
15 HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF YOU .
,
17 THIS E . I . R. STUDY IS VERY EXPENSIVE , IT ' S VERY ;
18 EXTENSIVE, IT HAD A GREAT DEAL OF INPUT . AND IT ' S THEIR I
i
� I
19 OPINION THAT IT SHOULD START A LITTLE BIT FURTHER AND END i
i
20 A LITTLE BIT SHORTER. THE TOTAL ACREAGE , I BELIE�IE , ;
21 I BETWEEN ALTERNATIVE 2 THE LAST TIME , WHICH WAS RECOMME:IDED i
i
22 BY JIM CORNETT, AND THE ALTERNATIVE THAT IS LAID OUT BY
�
I
23 THE BIOLOGIST, THE CONSULTING BIOLOGIST, IS A DIFFERENCE '�
24 OF TWO ACRES . NOW I 'M JUST TALKING ABOUT ACREAGE . AND
;
i
� 25 THERE ' S ALWAYS BEEN, AND THERE PROBABLY WILL FOREVER BE , A
26 DISPliTE ON EXACTLY WHERE IT SHOULD START AND WHERE �T '
i � �o
10 1 ENDS . OF COURSE , THAT ' S WHY WE ' RE HERE TONIGHT .
2 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : THAT ' S EXACTLY WHY WE ' RE ;,�
3 HERE .
4 MR. ROBERTS : IT ' S DIFFICULT, BECAUSE WE ARE UNIQliE .
i
5 YOU KNOW, IT HASN ' T BEEN DONE BEFORE . AND THE SHEEP DON ' T
6 TALK, SO WE ' RE TRYING TO GET AS MANY EXPERTS INVOLVED .
7 AND I THINK THAT WAS THE WHOLE PROCESS OF THE I . E . R.
8 RND I THINK IT ALSO SAYS THEY WERE NOT SEEKI�IG
9 A C�NSENSUS . THEY WERE TRYING TO GET AS MANY PEOPLE WHO
10 WANTED TO PARTICIPATE AS POSSIBLE TO GIVE THEIR OPINION .
11 AND THEN I ' M PRESUMING THAT IT ' S THE BIOLOGZCAL
12 CONSULTANT ' S AIM TO TAKE THAT INFORMATION AND MAKE THE
13 BEST PRESENTATION HE CAN TO THIS BODY ON A CONCLUSION .
�
14 AND HOW THEY ARRIVED AT THAT, MR. RICHARDS , I ' M NOT SURE
15 THAT I CAN TELL YOU, BECAUSE I DON 'T KNOW.
16 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: THANK YOU , 'fR . ROBERTS .
17 MR. ROBERTS : THANK YOU .
18 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: I THINK WE ' RE READY FOR
19 MR. HAYHOE ' S REBUTTAL.
20 MR. HAYHOE : THANK YOU.
21 I COULD STAND HERE AND GET ARGUMENTATIVE ,
22 REVIEW A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT THEY HAVE SAID, QUOTE FROM
23 DEPOSITIONS AND WHATEVER ELSE, BUT I 'M NOT GOING TO DO
24 THAT .
25 ALL I WANT TO SAY IS THAT SINCE BEFORE I BOUG�
26 THAT PROPERTY, WE ' VE TRIED TO BE GOOD NEIGHBORS . WE WEtiT
111
10 1 UP THERE , WE MET WITH THE INSTITUTE , WE SHOWED THEM A
2 PLAN . NOT THAT EXACT ONE , BUT ONE VERY SIMILAR THAT HAD
�
3 HOUSES BUILT CLOSER TO THE INSTITUTE . THE NEXT DAY WE
4 WROTE THEM A LETTER, TOLD THEM WE WERE PROCEEDING AHEAD.
5 IF THEY HAD ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS , CALL US . THEY GOT
6 THAT LETTER. UNBEKNOWNST TO US , THEY FAST-TRACKED A ZONE
7 CHANGE TO THE COUNTY , MAKIKG REPRESENTATIONS THAT THEY
8 KNEW ABOUT OUR PROJECT AND THERE WAS NO CONFLICT .
9 NOW, TO THE FOLKS WHO SPOKE IN OPPOSITION TO
10 THIS PROJECT , THIS IS NOT A SITUATION OF EITHER THE SHEEP
11 OR THIS DEVELOPMENT. I CAN ASSURE YOU OF THAT . AND WE
12 HAVE MADE NUMEROUS OFFERS OF COMPROMISE , RELOCATING PENS ,
13 BUILDING NEW PENS , BUILDING A PEN THAT WAS CONNECTED TO
�
14 THIS ONE SO THE SHEEP WOULD HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE LOCATION
15 TO GO T0 , AND DONE ALL THOSE THINGS , AND WE ' VE GOTTEN
16 NOWHERE IN 18 MONTHS .
17 THAT E . I . R. RIGHT THERE REPRESENTS A TOTAL
18 EXPENSE FROM DAY ONE OF WELL IN EXCESS OF A QUARTER OF A
19 MILLION DOLLARS . WELL IN EXCESS OF THAT .
20 WE HAVE HELD ON TO THIS LAND FOR A YEAR AND A
11
21 HALF . IT ' S A CYCLIC SEASON , BOTH BUILDING AND SELLING IN
22 THE AREA. AND WE HAVE GIVEI�1 A BUFFER. WE ARE WILLING TO
23 GIVE A BUFFER.
24 SOME OF THE VERY BEST LOTS IN THAT PROJECT, AS
�
25 FAR AS VALUE IS CONCERNED, ARE LOCATED UP IN THAT CORNER
26 NEAR THOSE PENS , WHICH WE HAVE SAID WE WON ' T BUILD ON .
i
112 '
11 1 IT ' S A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT ' S OWNED BY ANOTHER
2 INDIVIDUAL TfiAT, IF IT ' S NO`I' ALLUWGU TO E3E BUILT ON --
�
3 IT ' S ONE SINGLE PIECE OF PROPERTY . THERE MAY BE SOME
4 TAKING ACTION OR WHATEVER. I CAPd ' T SPEAK FOR THE OWNER.
5 WE ' RE WILLING TO TAKE THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY , PAY FOR THAT '
6 PIECE OF PROPERTY, AND NOT PUT A DARN THING ON IT.
7 WE HAVE AGREED TO PUT UP A BOND THAT IF OUR
8 PROJECT DOES ADVERSELY AFFECT THE LAMBING , THIS BOND j
�
9 MONEY , SUBSTANTIAL BOND MONEY , SEVERAL TIM�S THE COST OF '
10 THAT E . I . R. , CAN BE USED TO RELOCAT�. �HOSE PENS . i
i
11 NOW, WE ALL KNOW THE FACTS . WE ' VE HEARD IT ALL �
I
12 OVER 18 MONTHS . WE ' RE NOT GOING TO HEAR ANYTHING NEW. I
�
13 WOULD RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT THE COMMISSION VOTE ON
� �
14 THIS PROJECT. I DON 'T THINK THERE ' S BEEN A LOT OF NEW I
i
15 INFORMATION COME UP IN THE LAST YEAR . I CAN GUARANTEE YOU '
16 THERE ISN ' T GOING TO BE MUCH COME UP IN THE NEXT FE���
17 WEEKS .
18 AND LET ' S MOVE ON AND SEE IF WE CAN ' T DEVELOP
19 IT , BE GOOD NEIGHBORS WITH THE INSTITUTE . THEY ARE GOING
20 TO STAY THERE . THEY HAVE TOLD US , " IF OUR PROJECT IS
21 APPROVED, WE ARE GOING TO STAY THERE . "
22 THEY WILL ADAPT . WE WILL HELP THEM ADAPT . 6JE
23 FIRMLY BELIEVE -- AND KAREN SOSSMAN HAS PROVEN IT AT THE
i
24 LIVING DESERT RESERVE -- THOSE SHEEP ARE GOING TO LAMB UP
25 THERE . BUT IF NOT, WE ' RE WILLING TO INSURE IT . AND WHEN�
�
26 YOU INSURE SOMETHING , YOU REMOVE THE RISK. i
113
11 1 I ' M SORRY THAT WE 'VE HAD TO PUT EVERYBODY
� 2 THROUGH THIS PROCESS FOR A YEAR AND HALF . I KNOW THAT THE
3 COMMISSION HAS SAT HERE SEVERAL NIGHTS PAST MIDNIGHT ON
4 THIS ISSUE , SO I ' M NOT GOING TO TAKE ANY MORE TIME .
5 THANK YOU VERY r1UCH .
6 (APPLAUSE . )
7 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: I ' LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND
8 ASK FOR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSIONERS .
9 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : I HAVE SOME COMMENTS
10 REGARDING THE REST OF THE E . I . R. OKAY?
11 I THINK IT ' S IMPORTANT THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT
12 THERE WERE BASICALLY FOUR ISSUES THAT I WAS CONCERNED WITH
� 13 WHICH THE E. I . R. HANDLED WHEN WE FIRST CAME IN HERE . ONE
14 WAS THE DESERT WASH, WHICH THE FIRST E . I . R. BROUGHT UP,
15 AND I THINK THAT THIS E . I . R. ADEQUATELY HANDLES THAT
16 QUESTION . IT TAKES CARE OF WHAT SOME OF THE PROBLEMS
17 WERE , AND I THINK WE 'VE BEEN TOLD HERE THAT THE NEW -- NEW
18 SITE , THE WAY IT ' S GOING TO BE ALLOCATED AND THE WAY IT ' S
19 GOING TO BE SET UP, THAT THIS PROJECT WILL BE MORE
20 SENSITIVE TO THE DESERT WASH THAT IS -- BASICALLY RUNS
21 ALONG THE EAST SIDE OF THAT PROPERTY .
22 TWO , I THINK THAT THE DESERT TORTOISE , THAT
23 SUBJECT WAS COVERED WELL ON THIS ONE . I THINK IT WAS A
�
24 LITTLE CLOUDY IN THE LAST ONE . SOMEBODY FOUND AN OLD HALF
25 OF A SHELL. IT WAS VERY MUCH DISPUTED WHETHER THAT MIGHT
26 HAVE COME FROM SOMEBODY ' S BACKYARD . BUT I THINY. THAT THIS
114
11 1 E . I . R. HANDLED THAT WELL AND INDICATED BaSICALLY THAT
2 THERE IS NO -- NO REIISON `I'O -- 'I'O LOOK FOR 11NY PROBLEMS .
3 THE THIRD ISSUE WAS THE ISSUE OF THE �
4 FREE—RANGING SHEEP . I THINK THAT ISSUE WAS HANDLED WELL.
5 IT WAS PROVED, I THINK TO MY SATISFACTION, THAT -- BY A
6 NUMBER OF DIFFERENT STATEMENTS THAT THIS IS NOT CONSIDERED
7 AN AREA THAT THE -- WHAT FIRST DR. TURNER TALKED ABOUT
8 WOULD BE CALLED THEIR NORMAL HABITAT . I THINK THAT THE
9 FREE—RANGING SHEEP 3SUE IS COVERED WELL IN THIS E . Z . R .
10 AND I THINK WE BASI ALLY ENDED UP WITH, FROM MY
11 STANDPOINT, THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE , AND THAT ' S THE ONE THAT
12 INVOLVES THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE AND THE IMPACT THAT THE
13 ENCROACHMENT OF ANY KIND OF CIVILIZATION WOULD HAVE ON IT.
14 AND SO I HOPE THAT IN THE RECORD WE NOW �
15 UNDERSTAND THAT JUST BECAUSE WE SPENT MOST OF THE TIME , �
16 THAT MANY OF US ARE QUALIFIED IN SOME RESPECT, EVEN THAT i
17 WE LIVE HERE AND HAVE LIVED HERE A LONG TIME , KNOW THE
18 AREA VERY WELL, HAVE SPENT MANY PUBLIC HEARINGS AND ISSUES
19 ON THIS , I DON 'T WANT TO LET THE PUBLIC RECORD INDICATE
20 THAT THIS COMMISSION SPENT THREE HOURS TAKII�IG TESTIMONY ON
21 THE PROBLEMS RELATED TO THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE .
22 AND I ' M SURE THAT SOME OF MY FELLOW
23 COMMISSIONERS MIGHT WANT TO PERHAPS DISCUSS S ":ME OF THOSE '
�
24 ALSO . �
I
25 COMMISSIOP'" � DOWNS : DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY '� '
i
26 ENVIRONMENTAL �...'ACT r�SPIRATIONS ON THIS? ANY ARGUMEtdTS
115
11 1 WITH THE E . I . R. BEYOND THESE RECOMMENDATIONS?
2 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : NO, BUT I DO HAVE JUST, OF
�rn.2
3 THE MORE MUNDANE NATURE, SOME QUESTIONS TO ASK OF STAFF .
4 THERE WERE THREE ITEMS , I THZNK, BROUGHT UP :
5 THE 8—FOOT WALL SURROU2�IDING THE PROPERTY , THE PROHIBITION
6 AGAINST GRADING FOR SIX MONTHS DURING THE YERR, AND THE
7 UNDERGROUND IRRIGATION .
8 CAN YOU SPEAK TO THAT , MR. JOY?
9 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : PRINCIPALLY , OUR STAFF PEOPLE
10 ARE -- THAT LETTER WAS PASSED OUT TO YOU LAST WEEK THAT
11 DEALT WITH THOSE ISSUES IP1 A REMOTE WAY .
12 THOSE THREE ISSUES THAT YOU REFERRED TO ARE ALL
13 MITIGATION MEASURES AS REQUIRED BY THE -- AS SUGGESTED BY
�
14 THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT. WHAT OUR STAFF REPORT IS
15 SAYING IS THAT WE DO NOT CONSIDER IMPACTS TO THE IPdSTITUTE i
i
16 AS SIGNIFICANT , AND SO THOSE MITZGATION MEASURES WOULD NOT
17 BE REQUIRED.
18 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : THEY WOULD NOT BE .
19 ALL RIGHT . BECAUSE I ' M PARTICULARLY SENSITIVE
20 TO AN 8—FOOT WALL. THAT SEEMS , TO ME , TO BE MORE I
21 DESTRUCTIVE THAN ANYTHING ELSE .
22 SO YOU ' RE SAYING YOU DO NOT REQUIRE THOSE THREE
23 ITEMS?
24 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : YEAH . AND THE OI�E ITEM
�
25 PERTAINING TO THE CONSTRUCTION -- YOU KNOW, NO
26 CONSTRUCTION FOR SIX MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR, WE BELIEVE
� I16 `
12 1 WAS COVERED UNQER THE MI -sATION MEASURE THAT I REFERRED
2 TO EARLIER. I THINK IT L�,..� MITIGA _yON MEASUR. ^IO . 39 '
�
3 PERTAINING TO NOISE OF CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY . AND WE
4 WOULD ENDORSE THAT .
5 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : WHAT ELSE DID YOU HAVE ON THAT �
6 LIST? THERE WAS NINE ITEMS YOU SAID YOU HAD ON THAT LIST. `
i
I
7 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : I DON ' T THINK WE ' VE SEEN THAT i
8 LETTER.
�
9 MR. WHITE : OKAY . IF YOU ' D LIKE ME TO BRIEFLY GO
;
10 THROUGH IT -- I CONCUR WITH PHIL, THAT IF YOU -- MY LETTER I
11 SAID TEN POINTS . ;
12 NUMBER 1 WAS AN 8-FOOT WALL NOT TO HAVE TO BE
13 BUILT IF YOU SO DEEMED THAT IT WAS NOT AN IMPACT THAT
�
14 REQUIRED IT . THAT WAS A WALL SEPARATING THE PROJECT FROM I
15 THE INSTITUTE IN THE OPEK SPACE , THE FULL LENGTH OF THE
16 PROJECT . THAT ' S ITEM l .
17 ITEM NUMBER 2 DEALT WITH THE CASH DEPOSIT THAT
18 THE E . I . R. WAS REQUESTING THAT WE DEPOSIT TC BUILD A
19 DOUBLE FENCE AROUND THE INSTITUTE ' S TOTAL PENS TO BE GIVEN
20 TO THE CITY IN CASE THE INSTITUTE EVER WANTED IT .
21 OUR REQUEST WOULD BE THAT THAT EITHER BE
22 DELETED, BECAUSE THE INSTITUTE HAS NEVER SEEN FIT TO DO
23 THAT FOR THEMSELVES ; OR, TWO , A TIME LIMIT PUT ON IT THAT
24 THEY AGREE THEY WANT TO DO IT BEFORE YOU WOULD REQUEST
�
25 THAT OF US .
26 NUMBER 3 . CONDITION 14 OF THE E . I . R.
117
12 1 MITIGATIDNS PROHIBITS GRADING AND CONSTRUCTION FOR SIX
2 MONTHS OF THE YEAR. WE REQUEST THAT THAT FLATLY BE
�
3 DELETED.
4 CONDITION 4 , I DON ' T HAVE TOO MUCH OF A CONCERN
5 ABOUT, BUT IT DID SUGGEST THAT THE GOLF COURSE BE
6 RESTRICTED TO DAYLIGHT HOURS ONLY . AI�1D MY ONLY POINT IS
7 THAT CERTAIN ACTIVITIES ON THE GOLF COURSE DO OCCUR IN THE
8 MAINTENANCE AREA EARLY IN THE MORNING OR LATE AT NIGHT,
9 AND THAT A RESTRICTION LIKE THIS SHOULD ONLY REFER TO A
10 BUFFER ZONE .
11 NUMBER 5 . CONDITION 16-J REQUIRES AN
12 UNDERGROUND DRIP IRRIGATION SYSTEM FOR THE GOLF COURSE .
13 WE TALKED ABOUT THAT.
�
14 CONDITION NUMBER 6 . CONDITION 16-K REQUIRES
15 NATIVE PLANTS TO BE USED. I REQUESTED THAT THE COMMISSIOK
16 FIND THIS EVENING THAT THE LANDSCAPE PROGRAM THAT WE
17 DEMONSTRATED BE IN SATISFACTION OF THAT CONDITION . I ' M
18 SATISFIED THAT WE ' VE DONE THAT THIS EVENING, IF YOU SO
19 CONCUR.
20 NUMBER 7 . CONDITIOI� 18 --
21 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : LET ME JUST CLARIFY . WE
22 DON ' T HAVE A SPECIFIC LANDSCAPING PLAN THAT ' S BEEN
23 APPROVED AT THIS POINT, THOUGH , DO WE?
24 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : NO. JUST THE LANDSCAPING
�
25 CONCEPT, WHICH MR. GREGORY HAS GONE IN GREAT DETAIL IN
26 EXPLAINING SO FAR.
118
12 1 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : YEAH. OKAY .
2 MR. WHITE : OKAY . THANK YOU .
�
3 NUMBER 8 . CONDITION 23-A REQUIRES THAT GRADING
4 BE AVOIDED IN THE SOUTHEAST PORTION OF THE PROPERTY IrI THE
5 BEDROCK AREA . THAT WAS REQUIRED BECAUSE OF THE SUSPECTED
6 PRESENCE OF A CERTAIN GECKO THAT WAS NOT OBSERVED TO BE
7 THERE .
8 AND I 'M OBJECTING TO A CONDITION BEING IMPOSED
9 LIKE THAT, WHERE THEY DON ' T DESCRIBE THE AREA IN
10 SPECIFICS , SO WE DON ' T KPIOW THE IMPACT ON THE PROJECT .
11 AND, ALSO, SPECIFICALLY , IT ' S A CONDITION THAT ' S CREATED
12 TO PROTECT SOMETHING WHICH WAS SPECIFICALLY NOT FOUND,
13 WHICH DOESN ' T SEEM LOGICAL. AND I REQUESTED THAT THAT BF
�
14 DELETED.
15 CONDITION NUMBER -- JUST SLIGHTLY OUT OF ORDER
16 HERE . CONDITION -- MITIGATION CONDITION 18 , MY ITEM 17 ,
17 REQUIRES THAT NO GRADIN=:� ?ERMI"' BE ISSUED UNTIL A REPORT
18 ON THE BURROWING OWL IS CREATED AND SUBMITTED TO THE CITY .
19 MY ONLY MESSAGE THERE IS THAT STATE AND FEDERAL
20 REGULATIONS PROTECT THAT . I DON ' T THINK THERE ' S ANY
21 ADDITIONAL NEED FOR A REPORT TO BE CREATED AND SUBMI`�TED
22 TO THE CITY OF PALM DESERT , REQUEST THAT THAT BE DELETED.
23 NUMBER 9 IS CONDITION 35 . THAT RESTRICTS THE
24 GRADING ACTIVITIES WITHIN 1 , 000 FEET OF THE INSTITUTE
25 DURING LAMBING SEASON . AND MY COMMENT THERE IS THAT THE�
26 ARE NO FACTS TO SUPPORT THAT REQUEST IN THE E . I . R. THAT
119
12 1 WAS PUT THERE IN CONFLICT WITH CONDITION 14 . ArID UNTIL
�,,,. 2 THAT CAN BE CLARIFIED, I REQUEST THAT THAT BE DELETED .
3 AND NUMBER 10 IS A SIMPLE REQUEST , BELIEVE IT
13
4 OR NOT . CONDITION 36 RESTRICTS GRADING RCTIVITIES FROM
5 7 A. M. TO 7 P. M. MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY , WHEN IN FACT THE
6 PALM DESERT CITY ORDINANCES WILL ALLOW EARLIER GRADING IN
7 THE SUMMERS AND SOMETIMES ON SATURDAY WHEN WE HAVE TO PICK
8 UP SCHEDULE . AND I JUST SIMPLY REQUEST THAT THAT BE
9 CHANGED TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE REST OF THE PROJECTS IN
10 THE CITY .
11 I ' LL BE HAPPY TO GIVE THE COMMISSIOK MY COPY OF
_ 12 THIS IF IT WOULD HELP MAKE YOUR DECISION . I WOULD REQUEST
�,,,; 13 THAT THESE , AS I HAVE DESCRIBED THEM, BE PUT INTO YOUR
14 ORDINANCE AND THAT THE MITIGATION MEASURES BE MODIFIED .
15 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH
16 THAT , JOY?
17 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : NO . I HAVE ONE ITEM FOR
18 CLARIFICATION. I MENTIONED BRIEFLY DURING MY STAFF
19 REPORT, AND THAT WAS -- I THINK MR. WHITE TOUCHED ON IT
20 ALSO , IS THAT IN LIEU OF THE BARRIER FENCE BETWEEN THE
21 DEVELOPMENT AND THE INSTITUTE PENS , THAT HE IS WILLING TO
22 CONSTRUCT A SECOND BARRIER FENCE AROUND THE PENS . AND WE
23 FEEL THAT ' S VERY IMPORTANT .
�
24 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : JUST FOR PURPOSES OF
25 CLARIFICATION, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ITEMS IN THE E . I . R .
26 THAT WERE NOTED FOR MITIGATING MEASURES ; IS THAT CORRECT?
120
13 i WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT STAFF RECOMMENDATIO�S ON THIS
2 PROPOSAL?
�
3 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : WELL, THE CONDITIONS OF
4 APPROVAL AUTOMATICALLY INCORPORATE MITIGATION MEASURES
5 WITHIN THEM. THE STAFF REPORT THAT I ' VE PREPARED MORE OR
6 LESS THREW OUT MOST OF THE BIOLOGICAL MITIGATION MEASURES
7 EXCEPT THESE DATA THAT I BROUGHT UP. AND THAT WAS THE
8 FENCE AROUND THE LAMBING PENS AND ALSO THE NO CONSTRUCTION
9 DURZNG THE LAMBING PERIOD.
10 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : THE 8-FOOT WRLL. STAFF
11 DIDN 'T RECOMMEND THAT?
12 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : NO . WE ' RE NOT RECOMMENDING
13 THAT .
�
14 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : SO THE QUESTION, THEN , THAT
15 MR. JONATHAN HAD RELATED TO ITEMS THAT WERE NOTED HERE IN
16 THE E . I . R. ?
17 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : UM --
18 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : AND NOT ON YOUR REPORT?
19 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : THAT ' S CORRECT .
20 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : OKAY . THANK YOU .
21 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : SO THE REQUEST BY MR. WHITE
22 WOULD NOT REQUIRE ANY CHANGE TO STAFF RECOMMEPIDATION AND
23 STAFF REQUIREMENTS IN YOUR REPORT?
24 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : THAT ' S CORRECT .
�
25 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : OKAY .
26 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : ALL RIGHT . IF WE ' RE DOWN TO
121
13 1 SOME OTHER THINGS , THEN --
2 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : MR. DIAZ HAS GOT AN AWFUL
�rr
3 PERPLEXED LOOK ON HIS FACE . LET HIM SAY SOMETHING , IF HE
4 WANTS TO .
5 CITY MANAGER DIAZ : N0. NO COMMENT .
�
6 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : THE BUFFER THAT HAS BEEN ;
�
7 SUGGESTED, SINCE WE ' RE KIND OF ELIMINATING SOME OF THESE
8 THINGS , ARE WE NOW TALKING ABOUT THE PROPOSED BUFFER THAT
9 STAFF HAS RECOMMENDED? IS THIS BUFFER OF THE 200 AND i
i
10 WHATEVER IT IS IN THE -- EXTENDING TO THE 400 , IS THAT
�
11 FROM THE LAMBING PEN AREA OR FROM THE -- FROM THE �
i
12 INSTITUTE ' S EASTERLY BORDER -- WESTERLY BORDER? ;
13 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : THAT IS FROM THE FENCE
I
�
14 SURROUNDING THE LAMBING BEEN .
15 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : FROM THE FENCE SURROUNDING
16 THE LAMBING PEN?
17 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : RIGHT .
18 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : OKAY . WHICH IS PROBABLY , AT
19 ITS NORTHERLY BOUNDARY , PROBABLY 20 OR 30 YARDS FROM THE
20 OTHER FENCE . AM I CORRECT?
21 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : UM, GOSH, I --
22 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : PROBABLY LIKE THAT . IT ' S --
23 OKAY. I ' M JUST TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT THE
24 RELATIVE DISTANCE OR CHANGE COULD BE , BECAUSE --
'�rr
25 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : THAT ' S RIGHT. �
26 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : WELL, WHAT IS THE DISTAPICE
�
�
122
13 1 FROM THE FENCE TO THE LAMBING ACTIVITY , I GUESS IS THE
2 QUESTION .
�
3 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : YEAH . I BELIEVE AT ITS
4 CLOSEST POINT , THEFENCE COMES WITHIN APPROXIMATELY 180
5 FEET TO THE PROPERTY LINE . HOWEVER, TOWARDS THAT
6 NORTHEAST SLOPE, IT ' S CLOSER TO 300 FEET .
7 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : BUT WHAT ' S THE DISTANCE FROM
8 THE FENCE TO THE LAMBING AREA? WASN ' T THE POINT THAT THE
9 DISTANCE SHOULD BE FROM THE LAMBING AREA -- OR THE BUFFER
10 SHOULD BE FROM THE LAMBING AREA RATHER THAN FROM THE
11 FENCE? MAYBE THE E . I . R. LADY CAN ANSWER THAT .
12 MS . ADAMS : THE LAMBING AREA IS FURTHER UP SLOPE IN
13 THE PEN THAN THE BOTTOM. BUT THE SHEEP DO NOT LAMB IN
�
14 THE -- YOU KNOW, IN SPECIFIC SPOTS THAT, :OU KNOW, CAN BE
15 MEASURED. YOU ' D PROBABLY HAVE TO PUT TOGETHER -- IF THE
16 COMMISSION IS PERSUADED BY THE EXPERTS THAT BELIEVE THAT
17 ANY BUFFER SHOULD BE MEASURED FROM THE LAMBIKG AREA, THE�
18 WE WOULD WORK TO IDENTIFY THAT AREA FOR THE COMMISSION , OR
19 FOR THE CITY , AKD PROVIDE YOU WITH AN ANALYSIS OF THAT --
20 OF THAT MEASUREMENT.
21 IT ' S -- THEY ' RE IN THE LAMBING SEASON RIGHT
22 NOW, CLOSING THE LAMBING SEASON, COMIPIG CLOSE TO THE END.
23 WE WOULD PROBABLY HAVE AN IDENTIFICATI�N OF SITES BY JUST
24 IDENTIFYING -- ABOUT 80 TO 90 PERCENT OF THE. LAMBING
�
25 OCCURS ON THE NORTHEAST-FACING SLOPE , BUT IT OCCURS UP --
26 UP IN THE SLOPE , UP FURTHER, NOT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PEN .
123
13 1 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : I THINK THRT ' S A SUBJECT THAT
2 WE NEED TO KNOW.
�
3 I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO KP10W, JUST FOR THE RECORD,
4 THE OFFICIAL COUNTS OF WHAT THE SUCCESS PATTERN IN THE
5 LAST FEW YEARS IS . I ' VE HEARD IT MENTIONED, MAYBE
6 UNOFFICIALLY , BUT JUST SO THAT THE COMMUNITY UNDERSTANDS ,
7 WHETHER IT ' S A HUNDRED OR THREE OR WHATEVER. I THINK
8 THAT ' S SIGNIFICANT THAT -- WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME HERE
9 TALKING ABOUT A BUFFER TO THIS INSTITUTE . WHETHER IT ' S
10 ONE OR A HUNDRED, I THINK THE NUMBER OUGHT TO BE A MATTER
14
11 OF PUBLIC RECORD.
12 MR. HAYHOE : CAN I SAY SOMETHING?
13 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: SURE .
`�r
14 MR. HAYHOE: IT ' S JUST BEEN CALLED TO OUR ATTENTION
15 THAT IN THE E. I . R. , THERE IS A MAP AND A STUDY SHOWING THE
16 LAMBING AREA WITHIN THE PEN . I DON ' T KNOW THAT FROM MY
17 OWN PERSONAL REVIEW OF IT, BUT I AM TOLD IT ' S IN THERE
18 SOMEPLACE .
19 MS . ADAMS : THE POINT -- THE POINT WITH RESPECT TO
20 THE LAMBING AREA IS THAT THE LAMBING AREA IS -- IS UP IN
21 THE PEN. TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF THESE DISTANCES -- AND I
22 KNOW YOU CAN ' T SEE THE DISTANCES VERY WELL -- BUT WHERE
23 PHIL WAS TALKING ABOUT 180 FEET -- THIS PEN BOUNDARY IS
24 ABOUT RIGHT HERE . IF YOU ACCEPT THE EXPERTS ' CONCLUSIONS ,
�
25 THOSE EXPERTS THAT BELIEVE THAT THE SENSITIVE INTERFACE ZS
26 FACING NORTHEAST , YOU CAN SEE THAT THE PEN PULLS AWAY FROM
iz�
14 1 HERE , FROM THE BOUNDARY , SO THAT THE DISTANCE IS LARGER.
2 NC'd, THE LAMBING AREA IS SOMEWHERE UP FROM THE PEN .
�
3 IF YOU ' RE PERSUADED BY THE EXPERTS THAT -- FOR
4 EXAMPLE, SAY THAT YOU SHOULD SHALL 800 YARDS FROM THE
5 LAMBING AREA, WHAT I W�ULD SUGGEST TO YOU IS THAT YOU
6 PROBABLY HAVE THE BUFFER IN THE PROPOSED PLAN . I MEAN THE
7 PROPOSED PLAN HAS 800 -- WOULD HAVE AN 800—YARD -- I ' D
8 HAVE TO MEASURE IT AGAIN -- OR MEASURE IT, BUT IT WOULD
9 PROBABLY ACCOMMODATE A LARGE PART OF THE BUFFER. IT
10 DEPEKDS ON WHERE YOU MEASURE IT . WHERE IT ' S SENSITIVE .
11 THE INSTITUTE COMMENTED, IN RESPONSE TO THE
12 QUESTIONNAIRE , THAT ALL AREAS OF THE PEN ARE SENSITIVE .
13 WHILE THAT MAY BE TRUE , I MUST TELL YOU THAT THE EXPERTS
�
14 WHO COMMENTED ON THIS ISSUE COMMENTED THAT THE SE�ISITIVE
15 INTERFACE WAS FROM THE LAMBING AREA. AND THAT ' S NOT THE
16 ONLY SENSITIVITY , BUT THAT WAS THE AREA THAT DREW THE MOST
17 COMMENT FROM THE EXPERTS , IS HOW FAR AWAY IT SHOULD BE
18 FROM THE LAMBING AREA.
19 AND IT SAID -- ONE OF THE LEADING EXPERTS
20 TALKED ABOUT A QUARTER OF A MILE , WHICH IS 440 YARDS . AND
21 SOME OF THE OTHER EXPERTS TALKED ABOUT 800 . DEPEPIDING ON
22 WHERE THE LAMBING AREA IS DETERMINED TO BE , IT MAY ALREADY
23 BE ACCOMMODATED.
24 COMMISSIONER JONATHAK : SO IT ' S POSSIBLE , THEN , THAT
25 EVEN THE 440—YARD BUFFER , IF WE BELIEVE IN THE EXPERTS �
26 THAT SAY WE SHOULD MEASURE FROM THE AREA OF LAMBING
125
14 1 ACTIVITY , IT ' S POSSIBLE THAT THAT BUFFER ALREADY EXISTS
'�r 2 WHOLLY WITHIN INSTITUTE PROPERTY?
3 MS . ADAMS : IT -- IT IS AT LEAST SUGGESTED TO ME BY
4 THE DATA. I WOULD LIKE TO DOUBLE—CHECK IT .
5 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : I SEE .
6 MS . ADAMS : IT ' S NOT SOMETHING THAT -- YOU KNOW, IT ' S
7 SOMETHING THAT IF YOU GAVE DIRECTION -- FOR EXAMPLE , IF
8 THE COMMISSION GAVE DIRECTION TO STAFF AND TO �UR FIRM TO
9 ESTABLISH THAT AS THE FOCAL POINT . IN OTHER -- AS I SAID,
10 IF YOU ARE PERSUADED BY THE EXPERTS THAT SAY THAT THAT IS
11 THE CRITICAL INTERFACE , THEN THAT WOULD BE -- YOU WOULD
12 NEED TO JUST SAY THAT, AND THEN 6JE COULD ANSWER YOU
� 13 BETTER. MY SUSPICION IS THAT YOU ARE CORRECT .
14 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : OKAY .
15 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : ALL I HAVE WITH THAT IS I
16 KIND OF WONDER THAT WE WOULDN ' T END UP IN THE SAME THING ,
17 WITH 29 RESPONSES AND THEid SOMEBODY SAYING , "WELL, MY
18 BELIEF IS THAT -- I LOOKED AT THEM ALL, AND I PICKED THAT
19 ONE. "
20 AND I DOI�1 'T KNOW. I ' M JUST WONDERING IF YOU --
21 WHAT WILL WE GET? WILL WE GET ANYTHING MORE SPECIFIC? IF
22 THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE OBVIOUSLY IS GOING TO HAVE -- YOU
23 KNOW, THEY ' RE GOING TO HAVE THE MAJORITY OF THE SAY , I
� 24 WOULD THINK. I ' M -- I ' M A LITTLE BIT CONCERNED ABOUT
25 GETTING TRAPPED DOWN SOME ROAD THAT GETS DOWN TO THE SAME
26 THING, WHERE -- WHERE WE ' RE ASSSESSING zrr A SUBJECTIVE
i
1'� 1 POSITION OF SOME EXPERTS AND THAT NOBODY WILL REALLY g�+� �
2 ABLE TO -- TO CARRY THE -- YOU KNOW.
3 MS . ADAMS : I SENSE YOUR DIFFICULTY , COMMISSIONER , �
4 AND I REALLY EMPATHIZE WITH YOU. BUT I MUST TELL YOli THA:
� THE -- WHERE YOU HAVE DISAGREEMENT AMONG EXPERTS ON AN
6 ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUE THAT ' S REPORTED IN AN E . I . R. , IT ' S
7 ALWAYS LIKE THIS . YOU KNOW, WE ALL WANT CLEAR-CUT
$ ANSWERS , BUT REALLY, I"_' ' S A MATTER OF JUDGMENT AND HOW
9 PERSUADED YOU ARE BY TH� DATA ITSELF .
10 YOU WILL NOT, HOWEVER -- IN MY OPINION, YOU
11 WILL NOT BE FACED WITH MULTIPLE ANSWERS ON WHERE THE
12 LAMBING AREA IS . YOU WILL -- IF YOU ESTABLISH THAT THE
13 LAMBING AREA IS THE SENSITIVE INTERFACE THAT YOU WISH TO
14 PROTECT, THAT LAMBING AREA -- YOU KNOW, IF NOTHING ELSE , �I ;
j
15 BELIEVE THAT I AM CORRECT IN SAYING THAT IT IS REPORTED TO i
�
16 THE DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME, AND THEY WILL BE ONE OF
17 THE PEOPLE COMMENTING ON THE E . I . R. IF YOU BELIEVE THAT
18 IT ' S A SENSITIVE -- IF YOU ARE PERSUADED BY THAT. AND
15 '
19 THEN IT COULD BE EASILY MEASURED. j
I
20 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : I WOULD FIND IT VERY �
i
21 ENLIGHTENING TO KNOW WHERE THE LAMBING ACTIVITY TAKES �
22 PLACE WITHIN THE PEN . �
;
23 MS . ADAMS : WE CAN CERTAINLY REPORT BACK ON THAT .
I
24 THE CRITICAL FOCUS IS WHETHER YOU ARE PERStiADED I
25 AT ALL WHETHER THERE ARE IMPACTS TO THE INSTITUTE ' S 'I
�,
26 OPERATION. I BELIEVE COMMISSIONER RICHARDS BROUGHT THA'�' �
,
127
15 1 UP . YOU NEED TO BE -- YOU NEED TO SATISFY YOURSELF WITH
2 THE ANSWER EACH OF YOU HAVE AS TO THAT ISSUE .
�w
3 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : I GUESS IF YOUR FI�DINGS --
4 OR THE FACTUAL FINDINGS ARE THRT MOST OF THE LAMBING
5 ACTIVITY TAKES PLACE ALL OVER THE LAMBING PEN, THEN THAT
6 CONSIDERATION DOESN ' T BECOME RELEVANT BECAUSE WE ' RE NOT
7 DEALING WITH THE BOUNDARY , THE FENCE , BUT I --
8 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : YEAH, BUT THERE ' S A PROBLEM
9 WITH THAT.
10 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : BUT IF WE FIND THAT IT ' S FAR '
11 AWAY , THEN I THINK THAT MAY BECOME RELEVANT --
12 MS . ADAMS : YEAH. LET ME --
i
13 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : -- TO CONSIDER WHICH ONE WE
�
14 WANT TO GO WITH.
15 MS . ADAMS : YEAH. ONE OF THE DIFFICULTIES THAT IS
i
16 NOT PRESENT WHEN YOU EVALUATE WILD, FREE-RANGING SHEEP IN �
17 THEIR LAMBING AREAS IS THAT THE REPORTS ON WHERE THE
18 LAMBING OCCURS ARE , OF COURSE , WITHIN THE CONTROL OF THE
19 INSTITUTE. AND WE WOULD -- NATURALLY, IT WOULD BE
20 APPROPRIATE TO ASK THEM, YOU KNOW, "WHERE HAVE YOUR
i
21 LAST -- PLEASE PINPOINT ON A U . S . G . S . TOPOGRAPHICAL MAP
22 THE -- WHERE ALL 30 OF YOUR LAMBINGS HAVE BEEN . " !
23 AND THAT WOULD BE ONE WAY OF DETECTING IT . AND
24 THE OTHER WAY IS TO -- IS THAT THERE ARE , YOU KNOW,. MAPS
�
25 SHOWING WHERE THE LAMBZNG AREA IS AS REPORTED FOR i
i
26 PURPOSES -- FOR SITE-PLAr1NING PURPOSES . THAT DOESN ' T
�
1LJ
15 1 NECESSARILY INDICATE WHERE THE LAMBS G0 . YOU KNOW , "GE� ,
2 YOU KNOW, I ' LL GO OVER HERE AND LAMB BECAUSE THAT ' S WHER1�`
3 THE SITE PLAN SAYS I SHOULD . " IT ' S NOT -- SOMETIMES �ZOT
4 THAT PREDICTABLE , BUT WE CAN -- YOU CAN ARRIVE AT AN
�
5 ANSWER ON THAT .
6 I THINK WHAT THE COMMISSION -- WHAT I WOULD
7 ENCOURAGE THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER IS WHETHER THE
8 SETBACK -- WHETHER YOU ARE PERSUADED BY THE DATA THAT THE
9 SETBACK OR BUFFER, I� ANY IS REQUIRED IN YOUR OPINION, ��
� 10 SET BACK FROM THE LAMBING AREA OR FROM THE PEK . THAT ' S --
11 THAT ' S WHAT I BELIEVE THAT YOU NEED TO DECIDE , WHETHER
12 YOU ' RE PERSUADED BY THE DATA ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
13 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: IN VIEW OF THE FACT THAT WE NEE,�
14 TO ALLOW A 45-DAY TIME SPAN TO ALLOW FOR WRITTEN RESPONSE
15 BACK TO THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT, IS IT NOT APPROPRI�TE FOR
16 US TO CONTINUE THE PUBLZC HEARING AN� -- TO A DATE
17 CERTAIN -- AND AT THAT PUBLIC HEARING, THEN ONLY ACCEPT
18 WRITTEN DATA SO THAT WE CAN ALLOW FOR THAT 45 DAYS THAT ' S
19 REQUIRED BY THE LAW?
20 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : I ' D LIKE TO HAVE A MATTER OF
21 PUBLIC RECORD, EITHER THE STAFF ATTORNEY OR THE CONSL'LTANT
22 PLEASE INDICATE WHERE WE ARE SPECIFICALLY FOR THE RECORD
23 AND WHAT WE SHOULD OR COULD DO SO THAT THE AUDIENCE rND
24 THE REST OF US UNDERSTAND CLEARLY WHAT RCTIOK WE MIGHT
w�'
25 HAVE TO TAKE .
2 6 CHAIRMAN +�HITLOCK : CITY ATTORNEY , WOULD Yvli LI i{�. �.^�
i
_� .
15 1 RESPOND TO THAT FOR liS?
2 CITY ATTORNEY ALLEN : YOU HAVE A 45-DAY PERIOD RE'.'IE;v
�
3 THAT , I BELIEVE, ENDS -- WHAT IS IT, MARCH --
4 MS . ADAMS : JUNE 27TH .
5 CITY ATTORNEY ALLEN : JliNE 27TH .
6 IF YOU CONTINUE THIS SO THAT YOU CAN FURTHER
7 REVIEW THE E . I . R. , RECEIVE COMMEI�ITS AND RESPONSES FROM THE
8 E . I . R. CONSULTANT WZTH RESPECT TO WHERE THE LAMBING PEN --
9 OR LAMBING AREA IS TO YOUR NEXT MEETING, YOU WOULD BE
10 APPROXIMATELY HALFWAY INTO THAT PERIOD . AT THAT TIP�IE YQU
11 MAY ALSO RECEIVE MORE RESPONSE ON THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE
12 BEEN MADE TONIGHT.
13 IT IS PROBABLY MY SUGGESTION THAT YOU DO THAT
� 14 SO THAT YOU FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE WITH YOUR RECOMMENDATION
15 WITH RESPECT TO THE E . I . R.
16 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : WE DON ' T NEED TO FEEL MORE
17 COMFORTABLE. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE LAW IS . TELL ME
18 WHAT WE CAN DO , WHAT WE CAN ' T DO. THIS WALKING DOWN LIKE
19 THIS --
20 CAN WE TAKE AN ACTION TONIGHT OR CAN ' T WE? A"7D j
21 IF WE TAKE IT, WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT WE CAN -- WHAT ARE '
22 THE STEPS THAT -- THAT ARE LEGAL AND ARE OBSTACLES . OK�Y? '
23 CITY ATTORNEY ALLEN : YOU MAY MAKE YOUR ;
24 RECOMMENDATION TONIGHT TO THE COUNCIL WITH RESPECT TO THE '
I
� 25 E . I . R. , LEGALLY, IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU ' VE OBTAINED ENOUGH '
26 INFORMATION TO DO S0 .
i
� � � �
15 1 � COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : WHAT ABOL'T WITH RESPECT TO
2 THE ACTION THAT WE HAVE BEFORE US , WHICH IS THE
�
3 RECOMMENDATION TO THE COUNCIL WHETHER THIS PROJECT BE
4 ALLOWED OR NOT?
5 WE HAVE TWO SUBJECTS : THE RECOMMENDATION OF
6 THE E . I . R. AND THE RECOMMENDATION ON THE PROJECT . NOW ,
7 WHICH ONES OR BOTH DO WE HAVE TO WAIT? I MEAN THE 45-DAY
8 WAITING PERIOD THAT I HEAR ABOUT , DOES THAT MEAN THAT
9 NOTHING GETS DECIDED OR RECOMMENDED DURING THE 45 DAYS?
10 DOES IT MEAN ONE DAY OR ANYWHERE IN BETWEEI�J?
11 CITY ATTORNEY ALLEN : NO . IT MEANS THAT THE FINAL
12 DECISION-MAKING BODY , WHICH IS THE COUNCIL --
13 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : OKAY .
16 �
14 CITY ATTORNEY ALLEN : -- NEEDS TO MAKE THEIR DECISION
15 PAST THAT PERIOD .
16 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : OKAY . SO IT ' _ THEORETICALLY
17 THAT WE COULD HAVE SAID WE ' VE READ IT, WE ' VE LISTENED, AND
18 WE RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO TWO THINGS : THAT WE RECOMMEND
19 THAT YOU ACCEPT THE E . I . R. WITH THE COMENTS THAT WE ' VE HAD
20 AND THAT YOU RECOMMEND THE PROJECT . IS THAT POSS�BLE?
21 CITY ATTORNEY ALLEN : YES .
22 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : OKAY . AND WHAT ARE THE
23 PROBLEMS WITH EITHER ONE OF THOSE -- THE ONLY PRC3LEM THAT
24 I HEAR YOU TELLING ME IS THAT THE COUNCIL COULD NOT ACT ON
25 OUR RECOMMEIJDATION FOR APPROXIMATELY -- OR UNTIL �
26 APPROXIMATELY THE 27TH OF JUNE .
, ,
� � �
16 1 CITY ATTORNEY ALLEN : YES .
2 MS . ADAMS : PROBABLY AS A PRACTICAL MATTER
�
3 THEREAFTER, BECAUSE THERE HAS TO BE RESPONSE TO COMMENTS
4 AND EVERYTHING . IN JULY , THEY COULD ACT, IF THAT W�S --
5 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : OKAY . SO THE QUESTION THAT
6 THE COMMISSION REALLY HAS IS -- I MEAN THE REAL THI"1G,
7 FORGETTING -- FORGETTING WHAT THE LEGAL STUFF IS : HAVE
8 YOU HEARD ENOUGH, BO YOU NEED MORE , AND IF YOU NEED MORE ,
9 THEN WE ' LL CONTINUE IT . IF YOU ' VE HEARD ENOUGH AND YOU
10 DON ' T NEED MORE , THEN WE ' LL TAKE AN ACTION .
11 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : TAKE AN ACTION.
12 CITY ATTORNEY ALLEN : THE ONLY PRACTICAL CONSEQliENCES
13 OF TAKING AN ACTION AT ONE POINT VERSUS WAITING liNTIL
� 14 OTHER RESPONSES HAVE COME IN IS -- REALLY GOES TO THE
15 WEIGHT OF -- OF YOUR RECOMMENDATION. HOW MUCH INFORMATiON
16 DID YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU AT THE TIME YOU MADE THE
17 RECOMMENDATION?
18 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : WELL, I WOULD SUFFICE TO
19 ARGUE THAT THIS IS THE SECOND E . I . R. WE ' VE LOOKED AT .
20 WE 'VE HAD -- REGARDLESS OF WHAT I HEARD BEFORE , WE HAVE --
21 IF WE ' RE SUPPOSED TO TAKE INTO ACCOUKT ALL OF THE
22 INFORMATION -- AND THESE ARE FACTS -- THE DISCUSSION THAT
23 THE CONSULTANT GAVE US EARLIER SAYS THAT WE ARE SUPPOSED
24 TO MAKE SURE THAT WE SEE ALL THE FACTS .
�,,. 25 NOW, WE 'VE BEEN HERE 18 MONTHS WITH SOME OF
26 THESE PEOPLE , AND I SUSPECT THAT IF WE HAVEN ' T GOT AL� THE
i
L� G
16 1 FACTS WITH TWO E . I . R. ' S , THEN WE ' RE -- WE ' RE A LOT CLOSER
2 THAN WE WERE ON -- IT TOOK FIVE MINUTES TO PASS THE
�
3 MARRIOTT HOTEL. I WONDER HOW MANY FACTS WE DIDH ' T HAVE
4 THERE . TOWN CENTER MIGHT HAVE TAKEN 15 MINUTES .
5 I YOU KNOW, I MEAN SOME OF THESE THINGS HAVE TO
6 BE PUT IN PERSPECTIVE . WE ARE TALKING ABOUT RAW LAND WITH
7 BASICALLY NEIGHBORS -- THE OKLY NEIGHBORS WE HAVE ARE IN
8 ACCORD . WE HAVE ONE COMBATANT OR ONE -- ONE NEIGHBOR
9 THAT ' S HAVING A PROBLEM WITH IT, AND WE ARE ADJUSTIi�1G THAT
10 PROBLEM. SO I DON ' T UNDERSTAND WHY WE NEED TO GO TRIPPING
11 THROUGH THE DAISIES ANY FURTHER.
12 (APPLAUSE . )
13 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: THEN WHAT WERE YOU GOING TO
14 RECOMMEND? �
15 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : YOU KNOW, I 'M GOING TO MOVE
16 FOR RECOMMENDATION OF THE FINDINGS AND WHATEVER THE FORMAL '.
17 WORDING IS , SO THRT WE -- WE INDICATE TO THE STAFF -- TO
18 THE COUNCIL THAT WE ::AVE REVIEWED AND -- I DON ' T KNOW WHAT
19 YOU DO WITH AN E . I . R.
20 CITY ATTORNEY ALLEN : IS THAT WITH THE CONDITIONS i
21 MODIFIED, AS REQUESTED BY THE DEVELOPER? j
i
22 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : THE DEVELOPER ' S CONDITIONS , '
23 W'=EN I ASKED STAFF , HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH -- HE WaS
24 READING FR '�, AS I UNDERSTAND IT , THINGS IN THE E . I . R.
25 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: YES . HE IS REFERRING TO IT AS �
26 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : I MEAN --
" 3
l �
16 1 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK : -- MITIGATION CONDITIONS
2 CONTAINED IN THE ALTAMIRA E . I . R. BE MODIFIED .
'�rr
3 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : WHEN -- AS I UNDERSTAND THIS
4 CONCEPT, THESE ARE FACTS . THESE ARE NOT BODY RND SOUL OF
5 WHAT WE HAVE TO DO . AM I CORRECT?
6 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : AGAIN, THE APPLICANT WAS
7 REFERRING TO MITIGATION MEASURES COI�tTAINED IN THE E . I . R. ,
8 AND OUR STAFF REPORT WAS RECOMMENDING THESE MITIGATION
9 MEASURES , AS THEY PERTAIN TO BIOLOGICAL IMPACTS , NOT B�
10 REQUIRED .
11 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : SO WE HAVE -- YOU HAVE
12 REVIEWED THE MITIGATION MEASURES , THE PROBLEMS THAT WERE
13 CITED, AND YOU HAVE -- IN YOUR STAFF REPORT, YOU HAVE NOT
�
14 SUGGESTED THOSE -- THOSE EFFORTS ; IS THAT CORRECT'.
15 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : YEAH, THAT ' S CORRECT.
16 THE STATEMENTS IN THE STAFF REPORT ARE
17 REFERRING TO THE FACT THAT THE IMPACTS TO THE BIGHORN
18 INSTITUTE WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED SIGNIFICANT.
19 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : OKAY . SO THE ITEMS THAT
i
20 MR. WHITE WAS REFERRING TO WERE ITEMS THAT WERE NOTED IN i
21 THE E . I . R. WE HAVE TAKEN THOSE INTO CONSIDERATION ; IS ;
22 THAT CORRECT?
23 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : THAT ' S CORRECT . �
24 CITY ATTORNEY ALLEN : AND THAT ' S ALSO WITH RESPECT TO �
�
� 25 GRADING BEDROCK AREA, WITH RESPECT TO THE GECKO?
26 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : WHERE IS STAFF ' S
Z �
_� �
16 1 RECOMMENDATION?
2 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : WELL, THE --
�
3 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: DO YOU NEED THIS , PHIL? DO 'fCU
4 NEED THEIR LETTER? HAVE YOU SEEN THIS?
5 ASSISTANT PLANNER JOY : YEAH . IF YOU CAN GIVE ME A
6 MOMENT , I CAN LOOK THROUGH MY DRAFT E . I . R. TO SEE EXACTLY
7 WHERE THAT CONDITION IS .
8 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: I JUST WANT TO ENSURE THAT --
9 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : YEAH . I DON ' T UNDERSTAND IT,
10 EITHER. Z DON ' T KNOW THRT --
11 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD : WELL, WE MAY -- WE MAY NEED TO
12 AT LEAST HAVE A -- THE THING THAT TROUBLES ME IS , THESE
17
13 MITIGATION MEASURES ARE SPREAD THROUGHOUT -- AT LEAST --
�
14 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : SURE, THEY ARE .
15 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD: -- THE WAY I ' M FINDING THEM .
16 AND, YOU KNOW, ALTHOUGH I HATE TO DELAY THIS
17 THING ANY FURTHER --
18 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH
19 DELAYING IT.
20 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD : -- IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE
21 THAT IN A NORMAL STAFF RECOMMENDATION LIKE WE NORMALLY
22 HAVE , WHERE --
23 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : THAT ' S WHAT I THOUGHT WE HAD.
24 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD: -- WE CAN GO DOWN THE LIST AND
25 THEN GET EVERYTHING CLARIFIED. ''�
26 BECAUSE AS -- YOU KNOW, AS YOU GO THRCliGH THIS ,
_ � �
17 1 i ' M NOT SURE WHERE WE MIGHT MISS SOMETHING . AND TG C5E
2 THE GENERIC TERM OF BIOLOGICAL -- YOU KNOW, WE ' RE NOT
�
3 GOING TO DO ANYTHING WITH THE BIOLOGICAL RECOMMENDATION .
4 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : I AGREE , RICK.
5 WHAT I ' M TRYING TO FIND OUT , AND I GUESS I ' M
6 NOT GETTING IT . I THOUGHT THE STAFF HAD A READY-TO-GO --
7 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : I THINK THEY D0 .
8 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : -- DEAL.
9 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : I MEAN THERE ' S CONDITIONS OF
10 APPROVAL.
11 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : YES .
12 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : WITH COKDITIONS OF
13 APPROVAL --
� 14 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : WE HAVE THEM.
15 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : -- THAT DO NOT REFER TO THE ,
16 E . I . R. '
17 THAT ' S WHAT I ' M TRYING TO FIND OUT. DO THESE
18 THINGS HAVE TO GO TOGETHER OR HAVE YOD USED ONE TO BACK
19 THE OTHER UP, AND SO WE HAVE TO GO TO THE E. I . R. ?
20 CITY MANAGER DIAZ : MRDAM CHAIRMAN, WHAT WE MIGHT
;
21 WISH TO DO IS CONCLUDE THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY PORTION OF '
22 THIS PLANNING COMMISSION HEARING AND INSTRUCT ST�FF TO '
23 COME BACK WITH THAT REPORT AS -- AND THE DATA AS YOU
24 DESIRE TO SEE IT AND THE RESOLUTION, NOTING THAT THE
�,,, 25 COMMENT PERIOD OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT
26 CONTINUES TO RUN, BUT THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY PORTION OF THIS
l � �
17 1 HEARING IS CONCLUDED .
2 AND THEN WE WILL BE BACK IN TWO WEEKS WITH TH�
3 INFORMATION AND THE DATA FORMULATED, AS THE COMMISSION
4 DESIRES TO HAVE IT .
5 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : I AGREE THAT THAT SOUNDS
6 GOOD, BUT IT NEVER WORKS IN REALITY .
7 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: WELL, WE HAVE CLOSED THE PUBLIC
8 HEARING . WE WOULD HAVE TO REOPE�1 IT TO CONTINUE IT . BUT
9 ' I� COLLD BE MADE CLEAR THAT WE WOULD NOT BE TAKING AN`i
�
10 FURTHER PUBLIC TESTIMONY AFTER THIS EVENING . IN REALITY ,
11 THAT DOES WORK.
12 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD : OKAY. LET ME SEE IF I CAN
13 CLARIFY SOMETHING.
�
14 WE ' VE ,GOT THE MITIGATION MEASURES IN THE
15 E . I . R. , WE ' VE ALSO GOT THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL THAT
16 HAVE BEEN PRODUCED BY OUR STAFF.
17 NOW, IF WE , AS WE NORMALLY DO -- I DON ' T KNOW
18 IF I SHOULD SAY "NORMAL, " BUT -- AND WE SAID WE WERE GOING
19 TO ADOPT THE CONDITIONS , YOU KNOW, AS -- THE FINDINGS AND
20 CONDITIONS AS PRESEKTED BY STAFF, WE WOULD BE ADOPTING �
�
21 THIS DOCUMENT THAT STARTS ON PAGE 3 THAT SAYS "CONDITIONS '
22 OF APPROVAL. " IT TALKS ABOUT A 6-FOOT BLOCK WALL, PAD �
�
23 ELEVATIONS , CC&R ' S OK LOTS NEAR THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE OR �
24 NEAREST TO THE BIGHORN INSTITUTE , IT TALKS ABOUT THE '
�
25 PUBLIC WORKS . '''� !
26 NOW, AM I CORRECT IN THAT ASSUMPTION? IS T'r"�T
137
17 1 WHERE WE GOT CONFUSED? BECAUSE WE HAD MITIGATION MEASURES
�
2 IN THE E . I . R. AND THEN -- I THINK THAT ' S --
3 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : THAT ' S WHERE THE CONFUSION ' S AT .
4 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : WELL --
5 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : WHAT YOU ' VE SEEN IN THE E . Z . R.
6 AND EVERYTHING IS RIGHT HERE ON THIS , JIM. I SEE NO
7 REASON WHY WE CAN ' T VOTE ON IT THE WAY IT IS .
8 CITY MANAGER DIAZ : THE CITY ATTORNEY AND THE
9 CONSULTANT CAN CORRECT ME IF I 'M WRONG, BUT I THINK WHAT
10 WE NEED TO DO -- THE MITIGATION MEASURES IDENTIFIED IN THE
11 ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT MUST BE IMPLEMENTED AND, IF
12 NOT, INDICATING WHY THEY ' RE NOT. AND THAT , WE 'VE
13 ATTEMPTED TO D0.
�
14 BUT PERHAPS COMING BACK AND CLARIFYING,
15 PARTICULARLY ON THE CONDITIONS THAT WERE IN QUESTION , I
16 THINK WOULD MAKE IT A LOT EASIER FOR EVERYONE AND A LOT
17 CLEARER FOR EVERYONE .
18 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD: DO YOU NEED ANY FURTHER
19 JUSTIFICATION FOR SOME OF THE MITIGATION MEASURES NOT
20 BEING ADOPTED IN THE RECORD, OR HAVE WE SUFFICIENTLY
21 STATED THAT?
22 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : I THINK IT SAYS QUITE CLEARLY
23 WE DON ' T HAVE TO LISTEN TO ANYTHING WE WANT, IF WE DON ' T
24 WANT IT IN THERE . AND I DON 'T THINK WE HAVE . TO MITIGATE
� 25 OR DO ANYTHING ELSE . AM I CORRECT?
26 THIS GROUP OF FACTS , WE HAVE TO READ IT ,
i
� ,_ � a
17 1 UNDERSTAND IT, AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE ' VE DONE THA� . IS
2 THAT CORRECT?
�
3 MS . ADAMS : AND YOU HAVE TO SELECT -- WHEN YOli -- IF
4 YOU WERE THE FINAL -- AS THE CITY ATTORNEY POINTED OliT ,
5 YOU ' RE NOT THE FINAL ACTING BODY IN THIS .
6 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : RIGHT .
7 MS . ADAMS : SO YOU ' RE NOT -- YOU DON ' T HAVE THE
8 WEIGHT OF --
9 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : OKAY .
10 MS . ADAMS : -- THE BURDEN OF ITEMIZING EXACTiY ,
11 CHAPTER AND VERSE, WHY YOU ' RE DOING WHAT YOU ' RE DOING .
12 THAT WILL BE WITHIN THE CITY COUNSEL ' S DOMAIN.
13 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : RIGHT .
�
14 MS . ADAMS : THAT WILL BE -- NOW, IF YOU WERE DOING
15 THAT, YOU WOULD HAVE TG EXPLAIN, NUMBER ONE , WHICH OPINION
16 YOU HAD SELECTED; NUMBER TWO , THE BASIS UPON WHICH YOU
17 MADE THAT SELECTION; AND, NUMBER THREE , IF YOU REJECT THE
18 MITIGATION MEASURES IN THE E . I .R. , IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO DO
19 THEM, YOU HAVE TO STATE WHY THEY ARE INFEASIBLE AND WHY
20 YOU ARE PROCEEDING IN THEIR ABSENCE . AND THAT IS ATTACHED '
21 TO , YOU KNOW, HOW YOU VIEW THE OPINIONS .
22 SO IF YOU WERE THE ULTIMATE DECISION-MAKER,
23 I THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE TASKS YOU WOULD HAVE BEFORE YOL'
24 TONIGHT. ;
25 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : BUT WE ' RE NOT . �+"
18
26 MS . ADAMS : YOU ' RE NOT THE ULTIMATE -- AS I HEARD THi
139
13 1 CITY ATTORNEY STATE , YOU ARE NOT T:IE ULTIMATE
2 DECISION—MAKER, YOU ARE A RECOMMEKDING BODY . AND IT ' S THE
�
3 CITY ATTORNEY ' S OPINION THAT YOU DO NOT NEED TO MAKE A --
4 YOU KNOW, THE FINAL FINDINGS .
5 AND THAT ' S NORMAL, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT THE
6 FINAL ACTING BODY. THE COUNCIL WILL HAVE TO DO THAT . AND
7 THEY WILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH AKD PREPARE -- AND MAKE
8 FINDINGS ON EACH OF THE ENVIRONMEPdiAL IMPACTS , ET CETERA .
9 SO --
10 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : WHERE THE CONFUSION COMES FROM,
11 HE BROUGHT ALL THESE THINGS UP TONIGHT, INSTEAD OF
12 TAKING --
13 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : YEAH. I UNDERSTAND .
� 14 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : -- THEM TO THE COUNCIL. '
il
15 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : WHAT WE HAVE, THEN, IS AN i
16 ACTION THAT WE COULD PROCEED WITH, IF WE WANTED T0 .
17 AND I 'M NOT TRYING TO RAMROD THIS THROUGH . I
18 JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE KNOW WHERE WE ' RE AT .
19 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN: NO, BUT IF THE MOTION IS
20 STILL GOOD, I 'JILL SECOND IT, BECAUSE I FEEL I ' VE HEARD
21 ENOUGH, AND I ' M PREPARED TO GIVE AN OPINION AND VOTE .
22 I ' LL SECOND THE MOTION.
23 AS I UNDERSTAND THE MOTION, IT ' S TO APPROVE THE
24 REPORT AS PRESENTED, WITHOUT UNDERTAKING ANY OF THE E . I . R. ;
;
�,, 25 MITIGATION MEASURES THAT ARE SUGC'"STED THAT ARE NOT
26 ALREADY INCORPORATED INTO THE CONDITIONS OF APPRO�JAL.
i _
1`t _
I
18 1 i COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : OKAY . '�ZD SPEAKIti^ TG "..�
�
2 M�TION , THE COMMENT REG�RDING THE -- WHERE THE BL'Fc�R �
3 STARTS , OKAY , I SUGGEST THAT -- THAT WE TACK ON TO OL'R
4 RECOMMENDATION THAT THE CITY COtiNCIL LOOK AT THE POI:lT OF
5 DEMARCATION, WHEREVER IT SHALL BE , FROM THE -- TH�'
6 COI�ISULTANT PREPARE THAT NUMBER AND LET THEM MAKE T:-�L
7 DECISION, AS THEY ' RE GOING TO BE , BUT THAT �L �:.E
8 RECOMMENDING THE -- THE APPROVAL OF THE PROJECT SL'BJECT TO
9 THE CG"NCIL, OR HOWEVER WE WANT TO WORD IT .
10 LET THEM DECIDE , BECAUSE WE DON ' T HAVE THE DAT�
11 WHERE THE BUFFER STr,RTS . THAT IN -- IN ACCORDANCE TO WHAT
12 WE 'VE SEEN ON OUR PROPOSAL, THAT WE ' RE HAPPY WITH IT , BliT
13 WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ' S A CONFUSION AS TO WHERE THE
�
14 BUFFER STARTS .
15 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : I ' LL AMEND MY SECOND .
16 AND I ALSO WANT TO BE ON RECORD THAT THE REASO^�
17 I ' M PREPARED TO GIVE APPROVAL WITHOUT GETTING FINAL
18 DETERMINATIOI�1 AS TO THE MEASAUREMENT POINT FOR THE BUFFER
19 ' IS THAT ALL ZT CAN DO IS RESULT IN A LARGER BUFFER THAP1 WE
20 CURRENTLY UNDERSTAND TO EXT_ST.
21 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : OKAY .
22 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : OKAY . AND I ' M ORAY WITH �H�
23 BUFFER AS IT IS . AND IF IT WERE TO BE LARGER, I ' M OK�Y
24 WITH THAT T00.
25 COMMI��IONER RICHARDS : OKAY . THEN I WAS SPEAK=NG �
26 THE MOTZON, I DIDN ' T ADD TO IT .
1-e 1
18 1 SO THERE ' S A CALL FOR THE VOTE .
2 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK : ARE THERE ANY FURTHER COMMENTS?
�,
3 IT HAS BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED TO ADOPT THE
4 FINDINGS AS PRESENTED, SUBJECT TO FURTHER CLARIFICATION OF
5 THE LOCATION OF THE LAMBING AREA.
6 ALL IN FAVOR, SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE .
7 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : AYE .
8 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : AYE .
9 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD : AYE .
10 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : AYE .
11 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: OPPOSED?
12 ABSTAIN
13 FOUR TO : , IT IS APPROVED TO GO TO COUNCIL;
�
14 HOWEVER --
15 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : WE NEED MORE --
16 CITY MANAGER DIAZ : FOUR-ZERO-ONE .
17 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : FOUR TO ZERO .
lg CITY MANAGER DIAZ : FOUR-ZERO-ONE .
19 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : AND WE ALSO HAVE A RESOLUTION .
20 CZTY MANAGER DIAZ : YOU SAID FOUR TO ONE . IT ' S
21 FOUR-ZERG-ONE .
22 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: I 'M SORRY . FOUR-ZERO-ONE .
23 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : DO WE HAVE THE -- IS THERE
24 ANYTHING REQUIRED, MRDAM CHAIRPERSON, ON THE, -- REGARDING
�' 25 DO WE HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE E . I . R . ?
26 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: DO WE HAVE A RESOLUTION THAT WE
i , �
�� c
18 1 NEED TO ADOPT?
2 COMM, �SIONER JONATHAN : YES . ,�
3 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : YES .
4 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : THAT ' S THIS ONE , AND IT
5 INCLUDES CERTIFICATION OF THE E . I . R.
6 CITY MANAGER DIAZ : RECOMMENDATION .
7 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : RECOMMENDATION FOR
8 CERTIFICATION.
9 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: RECOMMENDATION FOR CERTIFICATION .
10 AND THAT NUMBER WOULD BE 1515 .
11 DO I HAVE A MOTION?
12 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : SO MOVED.
13 COMM3SSIONER JONATHAN : SECOND.
�
14 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: IT ' S BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED TO
� - ADOPT PLANNING COMMISSION RESOLUTION 1515 , RECOMMENDING
16 APPROVAL OF TENTATIVE TRACT 25296 AND CHANGE OF ZONE 89-16
17 AND CERTIFICATION OF THE RELATED ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT
18 REPORT TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
19 ALL IN FAVOR?
20 COMMISSIONER DOWNS : AYE.
21 COMMISSIONER ERWOOD : AYE .
22 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : AYE .
23 COMMISSIONER RICHARDS : AYE .
24 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK: OPPOSED?
25 ABSTAIN . �
26 COMMISSIONER JONATHAN : iHAT ' S IT . GOOD �UCK .
1 Y �
18 1 CHAIRMAN WHITLOCK : THAT ' S IT . GOOD LUCK .
''�
2 MR. HAYHOE : THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU ��'ERY
3 MUCH . I ' D LIKE TO THANK OUR FRIENDS , TOO .
4 (THIS HEARING BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION
5 WAS CONCLUDED AT 10 : 37 P. M. ),
6 ---000---
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