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HomeMy WebLinkAbout0601 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING TUESDAY - JUNE 1 , 1993 7 :00 P .M. - CIVIC CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBER ` 73-5I0 FRED WARING DRIVE * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I . CALL TO ORDER Chairman Spiegel called the meeting to order at 7 : 00 p.m. II . PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Commissioner Whitlock led in the pledge of allegiance. III . ROLL CALL Members Present: Bob Spiegel , Chairman Paul Beaty Diane Cox Sabby Jonathan Carol Whitlock Members Absent: None Staff Present: Ray Diaz Dave Yrigoyen Bob Hargreaves Eric Johnson '` Paul Shillcock Tonya Monroe Joe Gaugush IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Consideration of the May 18, 1993 meeting minutes . Action: Moved by Commissioner Whitlock, seconded by Commissioner Beaty, approving the May 18 , 1993 minutes as submitted. Carried 3-0-2 (Commissioners Cox and Jonathan abstained) . V. CONSENT CALENDAR A. Case No. TT 24773 - ARTHOFER DEVELOPMENT COMPANY, Applicant Request for approval of a third and final one-year time extension for a 38 lot single family subdivision located south of Hovley T,ane, 2000 feet west of Portola . Commissioner Jonathan asked why this was a final request. � Mr. Gaugush stated that was all they were permitted per state law; they had reached their maximum extension. Commissioner MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 � Jonathan asked on what kind of applications that would apply; Mr. Gaugush replied that it was for a tentative tract map and other applications varied. Action: Moved by Commissioner Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner Cox, approving the consent calendar by minute motion. Carried 5- 0 . VI . SUMMARY OF COUNCIL ACTION Mr. Diaz summarized pertinent May 27 , 1993 city council actions . VII . PUBLIC HEARINGS A. Continued Case No. GPA 93-3 - CITY OF PALM DESERT, Applicant Request for recommendation to city council for approval of a Negative Declaration of Environmental Impact and an amendment to the General Plan Land ••� Use and Circulation Elements . Mr. Diaz stated that staff was recommending that this item be continued to June 15; the reason for the continuance was because there was a special subcommittee made up of inembers of the p].anning commission, as wel.l as members of the economic development advisory committee, and staff , and the committee was looking at some of the vacant areas , particularly to the north that were zoned commercial . He indicated that the committee might come back with a different recommendation, so staff felt this should be continued until the committee came back to the commission with the results of those discussions . Commissioner concurred. Action: Moved by Commissioner Cox, seconded by Commissioner Whitlock, continuing GPA 93-3 to June 15, 1993 by minute motion. Carried 5-0 . 2 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 �..� B. Case No. CUP 93-3 - RONALD ODEKIRK, Applicant Request for approval of a conditional use permit to construct and operate a 20 acre multi-use, pay for play, recreation facility to be located on 20 acres of City of Palm Desert owned land zoned open space, located between 42nd Avenue and Hovley Lane, westerly of Corporate Way. Mr. Diaz indicated that the site was 20 acres on Hovley Lane that the city obtained as a result of a condition of approval/mitigation measure abou� two to three years ago for the property to the west. That land was zoned 17 . 5 dwelling units per acre affordable high density housing, and as part of that condition for mitigations the city received 20 acres of property designated for open space/recreational use, plus an additional 20 acres in the area generally bounded by Country Club, Frank Sinatra, Portola and Cook Street. On the 20 acres under discussion the applicant wanted to place a "field of dreams" softball complex. He stated that the 'M►' applicant could describe how the fields would be designed. He noted that the property was presently zoned open space. Access to the site would be from Hovley Lane and there would be 285 parking spaces on the north of the facility. He said that it would be composed principally of the softball complex, but there would also be sand volleyball , basketball, as well as a batting cage area . It would be pay for play. In terms of noise and lighting, staff believed the conditions set forth in the resolution recommending approval would mitigate any potential impacts . The conditions were similar to those imposed on the city' s project at the civic center in terms of lighting, spillover and noise. One advantage for this project was the difference in elevation to the adjoining residences to the south--Portola Country Club. He said that would make it easier to control any lighting or noise spillover. Staff recommended approval of the project and indicated that Mr. Shillcock of economic development would be giving a presentation. Mr. Paul Shillcock stated that he would give the commission a brief history of this site and why he was present from economic development representing the project . Approximately two years ago, almost three, the city realized that although this piece of property had been deeded to them for recreation r... 3 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 � purposes , reality was that it was probably going to be impossible for the city utilizing its own resources to develop that site as a recreational facility and to maintain it. This was a realization that was being arrived at by many cities around the country. His department was asked to find some activity that could be placed on the site that would increase recreation opportunities for residents of the Coachella Valley and possibly generate some revenue for the city. They investigated several possibilities ( i .e. bowling, miniature golf) and worked with a number of developers through an RFP process . No one had been able to bring a project forward that fit the criteria established. About a year and a half ago the developer present tonight approached him with a request that he looked at as a possibility of providing some recreation activity. They came up with a unique, but needed, softball facility. He indicated that this has become a popular sport and they worked over the past year to provide a project that would be of benefit to the people of the Coachella Valley and a credit to the city, in addition to doing what it was supposed to do and that included generating some revenue and attracting increased visitors to the valley, which would assist in the city' s tourist-based economy. The proposal was presented to city w� council about six months ago. In that presentation the business points of the site were discussed, lease requirements , and operations . He stated that the concept was approved by city council with the stipulation that all of the concerns in the community needed to be addressed. The project was presented to the economic development advisory committee after some of the issues had been addressed, as well as to the parks and recreations committee, and the concept received unanimous approval from both bodies . They had also made several presentations to the residents of Portola Country Club and a presentation to the residents of Chaparral Country Club, but did noY_ receive unanimous approval at either of those places . The project was designed to provide recreational opportunities to valley residents and attract visitors to Palm Desert, which would come in the form of teams coming in to play on weekends and for tournaments . He noted that teams travel all over the country playing in softball tournaments . He felt it was important because what he discovered over the past year was that Palm Desert was struggling as a tourist destination to meet the demands placed on the existing recreation facilities, which was mainly golf . He indicated there were times when facilities such as the Marriott could not provide tee times to people 4 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 �... staying at their hotel . This facility would target a different segment of the population and would add to and broaden Palm Desert ' s tourist base. He felt that for that reason it was important to the economy. He said that the developer would present the project in detail and had a model as well as drawings . He indicated that part of the development team was an operator of a similar facility in Tucson, Arizona, and he had been operating that facility for many years . Mr. Shillcock stated that a lot of the information provided was not speculative, but based on experience gained from many years of operation of this similar facility. The information provided on traffic, noise, security, and all the normal problems associated by residents with this type of facility was based on the experience of many years . The management established for this faciiity was also based on those years of experience so Palm Desert would not have to go through the learning curve and could take advantage of those years of experience for what had become a relatively new industry. He stated that the developer would be making a presentation of the project. Chairman Spiegel noted that with the staff report, the "� Initial Study Environmental Checklist was dated May 27 , 1993 . He asked if that was when it was put together. Mr. Diaz replied yes, that was when it was completed. Chairman Spiegel opened the public testimony and asked the applicant to address the commission. MR. RON ODEKIRK, a 17 year resident of the valley, stated that he lived in Palm Desert and had a business here. He said that he was here to introduce their management team, who would explain their project and be available for any questions . He indicated that through their experience and through a lot of research, he felt they were bringing a project to the valley that Palm Desert would be proud of . He said that Richard Odekirk, his son, was a ten year professional baseball player recently retired, and made his home in Palm Desert during the off season. They had been active in youth league baseball and basketball proqrams all their lives and Richard coach organizing instruction camps and clinics and he had a superstar baseball camp in Palm Desert that attracted over 330 youths with major league instructors and his contacts in the professional baseball world made it available for him to bring in ... 5 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 � some well-known athletes that would participate in some of their programs . Mr. Odekirk stated that he has coached baseball for over 15 years and had been active in softball programs and was presently a member of the Palm Springs Senior Softball Team and had a league in Palm Springs currently at Demuth Park that had eight teams , and from that there was a traveling team that went to tournaments all over the world. He said that last year their Pal.m Springs team attended the World Series of Senior Softball with 125 teams, which he felt was an example of the interest even at the senior citizen level . He said they would be qualifying for this year' s world series which would be held in Scottsdale. He indicated that the third member of their management team was Mr. Jim Hilkemeyer, who was the president of Sportspark of America, a recreation development management company and managing general partner of the Sportspark of Tuscon, a six-field multi- facilities sports complex. He had participated in the completion of over $15 million in recreation projects over the last 12 years and was currently involved as a principal or consultant in six new projects nationally. Mr. Hilkemeyer was their operating expert and part of +� their management team that would be able to answer questions about how these parks work. Mr. Odekirk said that he knew how they worked from a participants viewpoint and he was experienced in development because that had been his business . MR. RICHARD ODEKIRK stated that he played baseball the last ten years but was cut at the last spring training. He said that for the last several years he had spent the off season here and planned to make it his full-time home. He felt their project would do good things for the citizens of the community and for tourism, as well as the kids and kids ' programs on an occasional situation. He said they were trying to build the most unique and nicest sports complex ever done. They were trying to strive for a "Disney" quality and to do something that had not been done before. He indicated the 20 acre facility would have three ballfields that would double as adult softball and on occasion the youth baseball leagues . There would be sand volleyball, a basketball pavilion which would service an indoor soccer need, the batting cage and instruction school , a multi- use area for corpo.rate activities ( i .e. picnics ) . On 6 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 .... week nights they would be open and would actively go after the adult softball business . He said there were only 80 to 90 teams playing full time in the valley. He indicated that a typical valley of this size should have twice or three times that number. He said that the only areas on this end of the valley for Palm Desert to La Quinta were being used by the kids for baseball and soccer. He felt the softball market was underdeveloped because there was no place for adults to play. Sunday nights at the Cook Street facility was the only time available for adult play. Mr. Odekirk stated that during the week they would actively build and go after and get the adult softball market increased in this area to what it should be . The fields would be used six nights per week. On the weekends they would attract visitors (and had already received a tremendous amount of response and attention from all the national softball associations ) . He said that the traveling softball market was a big market . In the United States alone, every state held a qualifying event to get them through the national championships from all levels (kids , girls, co-eds, and seniors) and they had found the response to "� play in their facility was great because they would build the three fields as replicas of famous major league stadiums . He said this was not a miniature Dodger Stadium to seat 20, 000 spectators . They were hiring a Hollywood production company that through the use of set-making materials , facades and paint would make a player feel that they were in Yankee Stadium, Dodger Stadium or Fenway Park of Boston. Those things would be unfunctional with no seats , but there would be a little depth. He said this would give the amateur athlete, softball player, and little league player a chance to live out a fantasy of playing in a major league setting which would be very exciting to them. He indicated that the area in the center at the pavilion was where the seating would take place. The only seating for the ballfields would be in the center around the sports restaurant . It would be a typical ballpark concession atmosphere and would serve pizza, hamburgers, chicken, soft drinks, beer and wine . Approximately six times per year they would have an opportunity to hold celebrity charity events . There would be situations where the Lakers and Clippers might play softball games . He noted that MTV had "Rock and Jock" games which consisted of superstar ball players and superstar � 7 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 � musicians playing softball games against each other for charity. Every year at Palm Springs Stadium the Pepsi Challenge was played which had the National League and American League against each other. He said they get good attendance and did good work for charity. He said there was some response from television networks to televise those events and he felt it would bring some fun and notoriety to the area. Weekdays would be softball and on occasion they had made arrangements ( letters were received from youth league leaders from little league to soccer, and youth basketball ) for them to play their big games in their facility for local championship games and regional allstar games . Gordon Jensen, Regional Director of Pony Ball had indicated he would jump at the chance to play his championship and regional games in Yankee Stadium. He said they were going after all of these leagues, and the leagues mentioned also applied to volleyball and basketball . He felt they would be very successful and felt confident that a good program could be provided. He indicated that they had addressed Portola Country Club five times and Chaparral Country Club. He met with them in the interest of trying to make their existence as peaceful rwir as possible and take their suggestions to answer their concerns . Four areas of concern came up. Security because of gangs and a lot of kids hanging out, graf f iti , and a bad element hanging out was a concern to them. He said it would not be that way. They were an enclosed 24 hour secured facility. Each field would cost a lot of money to construct and the facility would cost $2 . 8 million and if there was one can of spray paint it would hurt their business . They were out to attract national major events . Everyone that walked through their gate paid a $1 . 00 fee and in exchange they received a token redeemable at the concession stand. It would get them to the concession stand and that was one way they would be making their living from this deal . He also noted that this was an adult park, when there were kids, their parents would be there to watch them play in games . There would not be any unsupervised children. They would utilize the option of who they allowed into their facility. They would also have security walking the grounds and there would be rules that beer would not be allowed out of the restaurant; beer could not be consumed before games were played and would be tightly controlled and monitored. They would : 8 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE i, 1993 r even have swearing rules--if a person was caught swearing that person would be out of the ball game the f irst time, second time they would be suspended from the league. He said that worked at the Tuscon facility. He indicated that was supported by the Christian community and was important to him. Regarding noise, he said it was 700 feet from their ballfields to their property line. Their fields were further away than the civic center fields to Monterey Country Club. They would also be doing additional things; the fields would be sunken down with berms and then on top of that the stadium facades would sit up to 30 feet in the air. They would be made o f wood and he f el t that wou ld be a good bu f f er. He said that softball was not a spectator sport. No one driving down the street seeing a softball game would pull their car over to watch. It was a participant sport. He felt the crowds that were brought in would only be for special events . Each team only had an average of six spectators according to national research. He said that Mr. Hilkemeyer ' s park backed that up. They were talking about 150 to 200 people on their facility at any one time and then the place would ""' turn over. He said that softball games lasted about one hour and when they were done they were of f the f ield and the next group would be on. They might stop and have a pizza or go home, but there would not be big, screaming crowds . If he could attract 20, 000 people for a softball game, he said he would. But he did not feel that would happen. It was strictly a family-type situation. He said that the lights had been addressed by the commission and staf f had dealt with the situation in depth. The lights today were a different quality than the ones at the driving range. They were directional , they had shields, and provided a spotlight effect. He said that the driving range iights , the College of the Desert lights, and the Palm Desert High School football lights had a glow and were not of the modern technology that they would be using. Their lights would be very effective and noted that there was a light facility in Redlands which Mr. Shillcock went to see, where ten feet from the playing surface a newspaper could not be read. He said there was no glow above because of the shields and the spotlight effect . Also, part of their property line had a row of solid tamarisk trees and the average height was 70 feet tall . Their fields were sunken down 10 feet and the lights were 70 9 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 � feet on top of that, so their lights would only sit 60 feet in the air and the trees were 70 feet in the air. He felt that not only would Portola Country Club not be bothered by their lights, but they would never know they were there . He said that cheering would probably be heard on occasion, but the Cook Street facility sat 800 feet from the new Palm Gate residential development and they went and talked with a resident named Mark Weisman, who was the closest house to the softball field, and he wrote commission a letter which said the fields were not a problem. He said that the developer, Mr. Curt Dunham, wrote a letter which said that he has had no complaints and the fields had not been a factor in selling his units nor had they effected the land values . That far away there was not much noise. The people complaining about noise and light he tried to get to visit the Cook Street facility and listen, but they wouldn ' t. He felt if they had seen and stopped to look, they would not be complaining about that . The traffic situation was one he felt was answerable. The statistics from staff and planning department stated that on Portola going in front of Chaparral. and Portola Country Club' s gates at their peak hours were 1100 cars per hour. If they were �+ completely full , and every hour it was changing, they would have 100 to 150 cars maximum ( if no one came together) and they would not all be driving past those country clubs . A lot of people would go out Cook Street and toward that end of the valley. Mr. Shillcock sketched out the four directions people would go and by his computations there would be 30-35 cars per hour that would drive past Chaparral and Portola Country Club entrances . When talking about 1100 cars per hour during the peak, the increase might be three percent . Also, after 5 : 00 p.m. when it slowed down, they were not dealing with peak traffic hours any more. He said that his answer to Chaparral ' s traffic complaints was that they already had 1100 cars and they were adding only 30 cars per hour. He said they would not do anything until the street light situation was resolved. He stated that it was his responsib.ility as an athlete to have been a good role model and to have done some things for the community. He had always been very active in his church, his community and in charities . He felt this would give him an opportunity, working with his father, for them to make a living and to do some good things for the community. � 10 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 ... Commissioner Whitlock noted that Mr. Odekirk emphasized the impact to Portola Country Club in discussing the height of the lights and the distance for noise. She asked what the impact was on the property to the west . Mr. Ron Odekirk said that the property to the west was undeveloped right now. It was scheduled as a residential development . He stated that the impact from lights would be negligible . The traffic generated would not be as much compared to i f i t developed as a residential project. He indicated that noise could be a problem once in a while, but on his way over to the meeting he stopped by the Cook Street facility and there were four games going on and it was not like a football game where there were 3, 000-4 , 000 people and a band playing. He stated that he could not hear any of the crowd noise. He felt that it the people concerned about the crowd noise would stand 100 feet away from the Cook Street softball/baseball fields they would find it was not as big a problem as people were afraid of . Commissioner Whitlock noted that the applicant had done such a good job buffering the project from Portola, she asked what buffering was being provided for the property on the west . '°'� She indicated that it was vacant now, but presumably it would not always be vacant . Mr. Ron Odekirk replied that the stadium design would help that and having the stadiums 25-30 feet in the air would help buffer noise. He stated that the commission should only be concerned about the noise and they had done what they could to mitigate that . Mr. Rick Odekirk also noted that to the north was the Marriott Desert Springs, who had been very supportive and sent a representative to all their meetings . Commissioner Jonathan asked about the alcohol availability at the complex. He noted a preliminary indication from the sheriff ' s department that referred to an ordinance prohibiting alcohol in a park open to the general public, which this could fall under. Mr. Diaz stated that this was a second letter received from the Sheriff ' s department . He noted that this was the first time he had seen the letter. He said that a condition that could be placed on this project that the sale of any alcoholic beverages would have to meet the requirements of the City of Palm Desert Ordinance, and also be approved by the City of Palm Desert Sheriff ' s/Police Department . He stated that in speaking to Lt . Janes prior to 4 : 30 p.m. , his concern was that alcoholic beverages not be taken outside of the snack bar area or go out into the .�. 11 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 � seating area, and where they were sold and consumed should be kept to one area. He felt this could be worked out through a condition of approval . Mr. Rick Odekirk stated that Mr. Hilkemeyer could also address that question since he was the owner of the Tuscon project. Mr. Hilkemeyer said that typically the game of adult softball included adult beverages . Part of the things that occurred were the training of their staff and the liquor control department usually came out once or twice a year. In the employee training manual and their actual training was how to deal with this specific situation. He felt the biggest single thing was that adult softball , whether in Palm Desert parks or neighboring parks , typically included someone having a beer after the ball game. The sheriff ' s department might say it ' s illegal in most public parks, but the fact of enforcement was the problem and was practically non-existent . In 98� of the cases beer was consumed out of the back end of a car in the parking lot . As a license holder the entire premises including the parking �r lot would be controlled to maintain their license. Their staffing was such that it would be monitored as opposed to a typical public park situation where there was no control . He stated that he did not have a problem and the facility was not set out as a tavern, but as a family type of atmosphere. Commissioner Jonathan said that he would assume that the economic viability for this type of project was not dependent on the consumption of alcoholic beverages . Mr. Hilkemeyer replied that the basic business plan of a facility like this, in order to keep the fees to the public down to a minimum and make it affordable, they tried to break even on what they collected as fees in exchange for what it cost to deliver that program ( i .e. softball included mowing the grass, paying for the lights, umpires, the ball ) and to break even on that portion he said they depended on the people using the facility to be using the food and beverage portion of the facility as opposed to going down the street or into their car trunk after the game. He indicated that while their pricing was competitive, it was like a theater situation where the money going for the ticket went to the film company and popcorn went to the theater. They were concerned about 12 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 ..r that and it was an important part . Could they make a profit without it? Yes . Could they attract investors and cut marqin possibilities? Yes . Mr. Diaz stated that in the second paragraph of the memo dated June 1 from the sheriff ' s department, the intent of the ordinance was not to prohibit, but to control . At the golf cart parade a year ago, there were alcoholic beverages served in the park; the intent was to control . For this facility the intent was to have the sheriff ' s department control the operation through the appropriate condition of approval . Normally alcoholic beverages were not allowed in a public park; if there was a group and permission was requested, with the appropriate conditions of approval it might be approved. Mr. Hilkemeyer informed commission that it was his practice when the youth were playing in the facility that no alcoholic beverages were sold at that time. Commissioner Cox asked about the type of fee structure and costs involved in using the facility. Mr. Hilkemeyer replied that typically around the country (and he was on the �• Executive Committee of the Sportsplex Owners and Directors of America and treasurer of that organization as well as several other committees regarding that) his experience came from not only the facility he operated, but from dialogue with owners from around the country. He said they were also writing the book for the nation on development/operation of these sportsplex facilities . He said that this was usually a public/private partnership in 80% of the cases developed. He felt it was in the public ' s interest to keep the prices low and that was how the industry had come to be in the two plus two equals five. They could keep the prices low by the food and beverage operation, which was typical in a public park environment. He said that usually they stayed within 80� of what was going on currently in the community and would vary by area slightly. It might be that a 10 week season would cost the team for all fees, playing once a week, about $400 . They might charge $500 since the facility had been extremely upgraded. It stayed in the general range of what they were used to paying. Chairman Spiegel asked if it was $50 per week; Mr. Hilkemeyer said that was correct, they expected $2 . 50 per person per week and hoped they would spend about $2 . 50 in concessions . � 13 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 +rl Chairman Spiegel asked if that meant approximately $100 per hour for the playing field; Mr. Hilkemeyer replied yes . Commissioner Cox asked if this were approved if there would be any consideration for Palm Desert residents as far as using the batting cages, etc . , and maybe special pricing. Mr. Diaz said that could be placed as a condition of approval . Right now it was not in the conditions . Mr. Hilkemeyer indicated that if that was a concern, the way it was typically done (and was specifically rough to do on the batting cages } but as an example they broke the fees into a player pass and a team sponsorship fee. A player pass ( like in Poway) was $15 per season for Poway residents and $20 for non-residents . Chairman Spiegel asked how many cars the parking lot would hold; Mr. Diaz replied 285 . Chairman Spiegel asked what the occupancy would be of the bleachers for the largest field; Mr. Ron Odekirk indicated that they had the capacity of seating 500 people per field, but they would not be using that capacity except on special occasions and charity events . Chairman Spiegel noted that the plan was that money would be borrowed from the City of Palm Desert for this field and if � that was the case, and there was currently 80-90 teams in the desert, he asked if the major income would come from the teams in the desert and how many teams would be necessary to break even. Mr. Ron Odekirk answered that to run at full capacity, they needed 160 teams . To break even they would need 70� of that, or maybe 100 teams . There were currently 80-90 teams throughout the valley. Chairman Spiegel noted that they would get a percentage of the existing teams , but 50� would be a big amount . Mr. Odekirk stated that if the project were approved, while they were building it one of the jobs they would be doing would be creating teams from the hotel industry, hospitals, and businesses . He felt that softball participation was very good for businesses because it cut down on absenteeism, kept loyalty, and a low turn-over of employees . He said that active sports was a very big interest to adults and the ability to play in a facility like this would generate (through marketing and advertising) the teams . Chairman Spiegel noted they would have to create 50- 60 new teams in the valley to break even; Mr. Odekirk concurred. Mr. Hilkemeyer added that in the Tuscon market they had 90 teams when they opened the facility. By doing their demographic work in the community, they determined that it would probably be a six field complex that would make 14 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 � sense to build and be on the safe side. From the 90 teams it had grown to a high of 385 teams in one season and that was a growth curve that took about three years to achieve. The reason this facility was sized at three fields was based on the demographics of this community and the demand anticipated here. Commissioner Cox stated that regarding the tournaments, she had a problem with enough parking capacity. If there was a big tournament, the stands were more full than normal , and if there were people from all over the country, she asked where all the people would park. Mr. Ron Odekirk replied that they had some overflow areas that they could make into a parking area . Commissioner Cox asked if that was because of the land for phase 2 . Mr. Odekirk indicated they would have to create a retention basin and part of that couZd be used as parking for overflow situations . He said there would be parking allowed on the street, but this would not be an everyday event, only special events . Mr. Rick Odekirk added that the tournaments would bring no more spectators than the average league play; the average was six spectators . Commissioner Cox asked about the celebrity events . Mr. Odekirk said that � would be different and would only be a handful of times per year and they would have to use the retention area and the street . Commissioner Cox asked if a special permit would be required for the events; Mr. Diaz said that could be conditioned so that if there were any celebrity tournament or charitable event that it would require a special permit . He said they could also require that one only field be used. Right now it was not conditioned that way. Commissioner Cox noted that the type of people traveling in the league from all over the country, she said she did not know what their buying power was, but knew that a room in season in Palm Desert would be difficult to get that a normal person could stay in; she asked if this had been taken into consideration. Were they going to prevent people fr.om coming here because of Palm Desert 's reputation of being a high class resort. Mr. Ron Odekirk said that there were already a number of locations for these tournaments because they had such good tourist facilities . The best hotels, restaurants, and shopping. The people coming in the tournaments liked to make a vacation out of it . He knew that at Demuth Park in Palm Springs they had a tournament just about every weekend from teams around the country and their facility, while a good park, didn' t compare to what was here. The people were able to pay the rates for the hotels and while all of them might � 15 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 � not be able to stay at the Marriott, some of their players stayed at the top hotels and some stayed in the medium priced hotels . He felt this was their. customer ' s vacation and they spent money to do it. Mr. Rick Odekirk said these people were already doing this and there were 40 tournaments in Palm Springs right now from outside the area on the weekends . Commissioner Beaty noted that the city placed some restrictions on the public address system for the civic center park; he asked if this facility would have a public address system. Mr. Rick Odekirk indicated they initially talked with Mr. Shillcock and Mr. Diaz about having a public address system for their celebrity type events which would be Saturday or Sunday afternoons ; it was not intended that they have a PA system for night games . Mr. Ron Odekirk stated that they would agree to conditions on that . Mr. Diaz indicated that the resolution before the commission right now did not have such a condition, but one could be placed. Commissioner Beaty indicated that was the largest potential noise issue. He asked who owned the salt cedars/tamarisk trees on the south side of the property and who maintained them. He asked if they were on city property. He noted that Portola Country Club had incurred significant expense in the ,� past because they could be a fire hazard and needed maintenance. Mr. Ron Odekirk stated that as he understood it, they were on a 30 foot easement and believed the land was owned by Portola Country Club. Mr. Gaugush stated that was correct. Commissioner Beaty felt those trees were critical to the noise and sound block. Commissioner Beaty asked the applicant if they would prohibit coolers being brought in or used in the parking lot; Mr. Hilkemeyer replied that the parking lot was part of the licensed area and it was illegal to sell something that came from offsite, so they would patrol that on a regular basis . Commissioner Beaty asked what they would charge for a beer; Mr. Hilkemeyer noted that the limiting of the number of beers and those types of methods were used by personnel and their staff . He said there prices were for a small was approximately $1 . 10 and the large size approximately $2 . 00 . Commissioner Beaty noted that there were 130 teams mentioned; he asked if that was the number of teams for each season, with there being four or f ive seasons . Mr. Rick Odekirk said there would be four seasons . Commissioner Beaty asked if the Coachella Valley Recreation and Park District had been contacted since they currently run the softball program. Mr. 16 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 � Rick Odekirk stated that they addressed the Coachella Valley Recreation and Park District and they unanimously approved their proposal and their position was that anything that the Odekirk' s could do to provide the service in a better manner than was already being done they were happy for. Commissioner Cox asked if the applicant was committed to using local contractors and suppliers . Mr. Odekirk replied yes . Commissioner Jonathan noted that he did not see a development agreement and asked about the nature of the financial arrangement between the city who owned the land and the developer. Mr. Diaz said that it was not a development agreement; it would be an agreemen� between the city and the applicant. In terms of financial arrangements, those matters would have to be worked out. Reqarding the conditions of approval that would be placed on the development, any agreement between the developer and the city could not modify or in any way preclude those conditions from being implemented. Commissioner Jonathan clarified that there would be some type of contractual relationship, maybe a �+ landlord/lessee situation; Mr. Diaz concurred. Chairman Spiegel asked if anyone wished to address the commission in FAVOR or OPPOSITION to the proposal . MR. C . F. "BUD" KIRBY, 74-332 Zircon Circle East in Portola Country Club, stated that he was appearing as a homeowner and taxpayer in Palm Desert and was in opposition to the development. He conqratulated the planning commission on denying the Wal-Mart project and was proud that the city council supported the planning commission denial . He stated that he had a map of their country club with the layout and they had an 18 hole par 3 private country club and they owned everything in there. He said they were a bunch of old retirees and there were 489 manufactured homes with many in excess of $150, 000 in value. Their average age was well over 65 and he had lived there for five years and retired at age 67 . He felt that at this time of year 40% of their residents have left for the summer, or were gone for the holiday weekend. Using a map he put together, he showed where Portola Country Club was, Chaparral Country Club, Monterey Country Club, Suncrest Country Club, Palm Desert Greens, the corner of Monterey and Country Club r.. 17 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 � that was also zoned residential , some undeveloped residential along Country Club, a rest home, then Desert Falls Country Club, Avondale Country Club, the Lakes Country Club, and all they could see was the area above the wash that was completely surrounded with country clubs and residential uses , with the Marriott as their premier place sitting in middle with their two golf courses and residential . He noted that he marked the development off Cook Street that went into Joni as area C and then next to that was the area of land zoned open space donated to the city for park/recreational purposes . Zoned to the west of it was residential property with maybe a school . The proposal would put a commercial operation in a park place. He said that he had reviewed the environmental assessment form presented to the city April 1 and wanted to challenge that . There were many "no" responses that he felt could be challenged. One of the key things was the mention of a medical facility--that was the kidney dialysis that runs 24 hours per day. He also reviewed the city' s financial involvement that he found suspect, but felt that would be covered by other speakers . The proposed business points supplied by Mr. Shillcock' s office they had a lot �,,,� of problems with. Regarding the noise, he felt this was one of the most important things that the residents had. They were retirees and had their life investments in their homes and spend their evenings, particularly in the better months of the year, sitting on their patios outside . He said the noise factor would be extremely disturbing. At one of the meetings with the developers, it came out at the first meeting that the facility would close at 10 : 00 p.m. At the second meeting they said 11 : 00 p.m. He said they explained to them that retirees go to bed at 9 : 00 p.m. He indicated that they were opposed to a public address system. He said they were about 2400 feet from the Palm Desert High School stadium and they qet four or five games in the fall . He stated that they could hear the band, occasionally the cheers and the announcements of who made the first downs, with the games ending after 9 : 00 p.m. or 9 : 30 p.m. He said they got that four or five nights per year. They also got the Marriott Corporate Convention Complex, which was about 4200 feet away from them and they enjoyed the fireworks, and there were bands until 8 : 00-8 : 30 p.m. He noted that this was way in the distance, not 700 feet i away. He said they had heard there would be a beer , 18 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 � parlor in their backyard. It was said that the ballplayers could not have a beer before the game; after they play they would have one beer and a pizza and go home then the next team would begin. He said the numbers they kept asking for were never received. He was told there would only be 120-150 people at a time. He felt that those people after a long game would have several beers, and then the next team would begin. They would shut down at 11 : 00 p.m. and the place would be mobbed, which was the only way they would make any money. He stated that the sports complex belonged somewhere out in the "boonies" like in Tuscon. He suqgested possibly around the Price Club area . He asked the commission to keep in mind that the retirees in Portola Country Club had their investments in the homes and were enjoying it and didn ' t need this kind of complex in their backyard. MR. CHUCK DUART, a resident of Palm Desert, stated that he and his wife had been residents for the past several years . Approximately two weeks ago Mr. Shillcock, Mr. Richard Odekirk, and his associates held a meeting at 'r'+ Chaparral Country Club to exploit this project . After hearing the details , he was present to plead that the project be denied for all the following reasons : Mr. Odekirk claimed that the noise level would be minimal despite the fact that three softball games would be played simultaneously. He found that difficult to accept. Also, the result from sand, dust and dirt would cause serious problems . They had heard little or no mention today of an environmental impact study and he felt this should be mandatory. The traffic on Portola had been so continuously heavy that it was recently necessary to put up stop signs outside of the Portola Country Club gate. Unfortunately, that only caused an immense traffic backup requiring the Palm Desert police in the afternoons to wave the traffic throuqh the stop signs . At times the backed up traffic threatened to reach down to Highway 111 . The stop signs were removed, but the heavy flow of traffic have remained the same. He asked if a traffic study was done prior to the stop signs being placed, and if it was the same department that assured them that only 150 cars ( or 30 cars per hour� would be the result of the proposed project . He felt that any amount of unnecessary traffic was totally unacceptable. Mr. Odekirk told them he envisioned six .... 19 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 . � celebrity games per year usirig the names of Don Drysdale, Joe Demagio, and others . This meant a game every other month and with plans for national television. He said it was a known fact that a remote TV hookup required several immense vans housing the equipment and personnel to operate it. They would be required to park for a period of four to six days . Hovley Lane was a small street with no street parking available . Such events would also call for several vendors to sell T-shirts , hats , buttons , souvenirs, buttons , etc . , and these vendors would require parking space. Additionally, there would be a need for a large number of portable public toilets for all these public events . They had to be transported to the complex and the transport vehicles would require parking space. All this would be on Hovley Lane. He felt this would all result in a nightmare for traffic entering Hovley, now reduced from two lanes to one due to parked vehicles from Cook Street and/or Partola . He stated that this project would be disastrous and asked that the commission give this careful thought . For the spectator parking at the celebrity events Mr. Odekirk told them that "thousands of people" were expected to attend these � every other month tournaments . When asked how they would handle the number of cars for this amount of people he replied that people would park at the Marriott Hotel and be bussed over to the complex. He stated that Mr. Odekirk had apparently never tried to find even one parking place; it was close to impossible. Also, the proposed complex as quoted from their brochure said, "a few times each year to make these fields available to youth leagues and championship allstar games . " In addition they hoped to have little league games in this complex. This would result in a constant, year round traffic nightmare. He hoped the City of Palm Desert could afford the extra traffic police that would be required to handle this long, continuous traffic jam. Palm Desert ' s streets were not built to handle this heavy congestion. He thought that Mr. Odekirk had lost sight of the fact that this was a residential area. What so many of them found so completely appalling was the fact that this complex planned to build a fast food outlet serving beer and wine next to a school which was to be built and another school only three blocks away. He asked how the City of Palm Desert could even consider the project. In talking to Mr. Odekirk, they planned to 20 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 ... tape the softball games and show them to the players in the bar following each game. He felt there would be a large number of people watching themselves on TV while drinking beer. With the school only a few hundred feet away, he felt this should be given a lot of consideration. At their meeting Mr. Odekirk was asked whether or not it was necessary to sell beer or wine at this proposed project . Tonight his advisors indicated that if they didn' t sell beer or wine tt�eir profit would be minimal . The more beer and wine they sell, the higher their profits . If this commercial venture was allowed, he asked what was to prevent the ten acres directly south on Portola and Hovley Lane from being rezoned for a mini-mall , gas station or another commercial complex. He again noted that this was a residential neighborhood. He commended Mr. Shillcock for trying to improve the financial situation of Palm Desert, but seriously questioned the city making a construction loan of $2 . 8 milli.on using public funds with interest only payments during the first three years, in addition to no lease payment to the city for five years . It was stated to Mr. Shillcock that the '� alternative to the proposed complex were high density apartments; in view of the above stated numerous objections to the proposed complex, apartments with walls, lawns, trees, flowers, and no offensive lights, noise/crowds, and traffic would be much more preferable. Selling beer and wine in a residential school neighborhood was a travesty of good judgement and a failure of good government . He asked that the project be totally rejected by the City of Palm Desert . MR. STAN RYS, a Portola Country Club resident, stated that he did not object to the sports complex, he objected to the location. Portola was a retirement community and by definition of retirement according to the Random House Dictionary meant, "someone enjoying privacy and seclusion while living in a private or secluded place. " He said they have been very happy with this definition at Portola and hoped to keep it that way. The news of a possible sports complex came "like a bomb shell" . He said they were misinformed, disinformed, and uninformed. He felt that most of the information was vague although Mr. Diaz tried to be fair in answering their questions over the phone. He asked that this matter be continued until the majority of � 21 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 r residents returned from summer vacations this fall . He stated that about 200 families were away and it would be unfair and unjust to them to be left out of this decision. He also felt there were too many questions that had not been answered and indicated that he was not against a sports complex in Palm Desert, however, he felt a more appropriate location would be off of Country Club Drive where it would not interfere with any peace or tranquility of any resident . He wanted to keep their solitude and noted that there were 200-300 families with no knowledge of this project. He again requested a continuance to the fall . MR. JASON P. CURREY, a Chaparral Country Club resident, stated that for over 13 years he managed organized league softball with over 40 games per year. In addition his teams and players participated in local , regional and state softball tournaments . After his managing days were over, he attended many industrial league and college softball games from Northern California to Southern California . He said he was a big softball fan. He stated that he was present to tell the commission that the noise level that most of the w/ softball games produced was not to be confused with the noise level of badminton, lawn tennis, or other sports . Softball had the same noise level as baseball , football , and soccer. It had its loud and boisterous fans . He said they seemed to get more loud and boisterous with the amount of alcohol they consumed. He said that he and his wife recently sold their home in Los Angeles and had the opportunity to locate anywhere in the United States . People asked him if he was leaving California and he replied no, because he found a place that was a haven to retirees . That place was Palm Desert . The reason he came to Palm Desert was for the following three items : 1 ) the reputation of the Palm Desert City Government, it is outstanding; 2 } Palm Desert has a good many residents of his age with the same wants and needs ; and 3 ) there was a good mix of residential and commercial areas and they did not seem to interfere with one another. He said that if he and his wife had known about the Hovley sports complex prior to his negotiating for their home, he felt it would have swayed his decision, but he had faith in the planning commission and asked that this not be allowed to go through. 22 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 .... MR. ALAN MOORE, a Portola Country Club resident, commended Mr. Shillcock in his presentation and felt he did a good job, as well as Rick Odekirk and his father. He felt the sports complex was probably a good idea, but agreed with previous testimony that this was not a good place for it. The promoters of the sports complex were appealing to the nostalgic feelings of sports-minded people to have softball fields designed as replicas of the Dodger, Yankee and Fenway Stadiums . He said that he could not support this proposal for many valid reasons . The promoters when they visited Portola Country Club to sell them on the idea stated that there would be an average attendance of 150 persons, except for special events which could be as high as 5 , 000 as stated in their proposal . He did not believe an attendance of 150 people per day would support a $3 million complex. Their own figures in the proposal to the city stated that they expect over 200, 000 people per year in attendance, which was approximately 600 per day. At the same meeting before Portola Country Club, they emphasized only softball fields , there was no mention to his knowledge of soccer fields, football or basketball � courts , or video game rooms , batting cages or pool rooms . In their written proposal they described their proposal for a second phase to the west which included miniature golf, water slides, a skateboard area, and an amphitheater for concerts, meetings and speakers . He said an amphitheater would seat hundreds of people. They stressed that the entire area would be like Disneyland. He stated that the residents of Portola Country Club did not want a Disneyland in their front yard with the noise, lights , and traffic that have caused home property values to plummet in the area of the current Disneyland. He felt this would also happen to the Portola Country Club property values and they would become a cheap trailer. park. In the proposal to the city the promoters made conflicting and less than honest statements . One place they stated they would have 13 employees , another time they said 61 full and part time employees . Also regarding the environmental assessment form they filled out, he challenged some of their answers . Item #25 they said no noise level change because of the sport complex. He said that was untrue. In item #28 they said there would be no change in municipal services; he stated there was bound to be changes to fire, police, sewage, and waste disposal with r... 23 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 � 200, 000 people a year using that facility. He said that Item #3 said there would be no controversy about this project; he stated that was why they were present tonight because there was a lot of controversy. He noted that this property was given to the city for use as a park by local citizens and local activities, not for a commercial facility designed especially for adult professional use. As stated by Mr. Rick Odekirk, the facility was to be used for local events only on special occasions; this would not help local people, it would only help the developers and promoters . He said that this type of activity should be located in the commercial area like the Oasis Water Park in Palm Springs, the miniature golf course that just opened in Cathedral City, or the ice rink in the Town Center. They were in commer_cial areas, not residential . He said that in these tighL economic times all r.ities , including Palm Desert, must watch their expenditures . He felt it was unwise to give $3 million to a private citizen for a very speculative business venture. There was a guarantee of no money on the return for five years, or until the development grossed $2 million per year, except the city would get an interest payment of f ive to .�r seven percent. He questioned that also. For the Tuscon project they were paying nine percent . He said that the residents of Portola Country Club strongly recommended a big no for this unwanted and unneeded development . He noted that when the applicant was at their park, the PA system was mentioned and they were told there would be three PA systems because kids when they were playing liked to hear their names . He said that the buffer zone was going to be used for corporate picnics and various other things; he stated that a corporate picnic would not be f ive or ten people, it would probably be hundreds which would make a lot of noise . Commissioner Jonathan asked Mr. Moore about his information on phase 2 and where he heard about it. Mr. Moore stated that it was something he got that was the whole history of the proposal . Mr. Diaz said that those documents were presented to the city council as part of the public record; in the case of any expansion, this particular project would have to go through the public review process . Commissioner Jonathan stated that he would find it helpful to have better clarification up front if this was part of a larger type venture. Mr. Diaz indicated that as far as he was concerned 24 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 .... it was not part of. a larger venture; what was before the commission was it, but he did not know what would happen in the future. Mr. Shillcock explained that the original proposal and the concept presented to city council talked about two phases . City council was not comfortable with two phases for the project and it was refined and moved forward; the cancept that was approved was a one phase stand alone project of three fields . If this proved to be successful , and if the developer at a later date wanted to expand and provide six fields which was felt to be optimal for Palm Desert ' s population base, he would have to come back with a new and separate project. What has moved forward from city council from the conceptual approval stages was what was before the commission. Commissioner Jonathan stated that he had to problem with that, but he would have found it helpful to have that background information discussed prior to it coming up during public testimony. He said his other question to Mr. Moore related to a construction loan that would be repaid at a five to seven percent rate. Mr. Diaz stated that the financial arrangements would be subject to council ratification. In terms of the commission action, if any part of the agreement impacted the conditions of "� approval, then it would be before the commission. In terms of city agreements , the first thing was that the project was either approved or denied; if approved then the percentages and issue of who gets what and who pays for what would be determined. He said that the planning issue was up to the commission to determine. Commissioner Jonathan stated that he understood that, but had a problem when the public was better informed than the commission and in future would simply appreciate receiving the background information. He said that was his personal comment to staff . Mr. Diaz replied that commission was absolutely correct . Mr. Moore informed commission that he had a document to the mayor and city council that gave figures on the size of the loan, when money would be paid, what the interest would be because it was a graduated thing. He gave it to Commissioner Jonathan. Commissioner Jonathan noted that Mr. Diaz was correct in saying that the planning commission was to evaluate a proposed project and how it fit into the zoning and needs of the community. The financial consideration was the council ' s business and the planning commission was to look at the .�.. 25 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 ' � project not so much as the financi.al impact on the city or others . MR. TED WIKENDOWSKY, a resident of Portola Country Club, stated that Palm Springs had a well known team. The Palm Springs Angeles played in the Palm Springs Stadium and that was having trouble. To get the attendance they needed to modernize their facilities and there were so many problems financially, the Angeles were leaving the Palm Springs Stadium for greener pastures . He said that this was an established park; here the city would invest $2 . 8 million of the city' s money, which meant the taxpayers dollars, to go into a venture that was dubious . Residents of Portola Country Club had a public field next to the Kaufman grade school on Portola, as well as the high school on Cook Street. When the game was being played, there was no trouble hearing the score and following the event . This would put another playing field on the other side of them with a newer and more powerful speaker. He did not want that. Regarding traffic, Portola Avenue was a speedway now and he could not imagine what would happen when the games let out and the participants wanted to get home. He felt when the �■�1 project was in full operation it would create a lot more traffic . He stated that this could be a good idea, but in a bad spot. He said that Cook Street and Frank Sinatra would be a better spot with possible hookup to I-10 in the future. Should this turn out to be as great an investment as envisioned by the people presenting the project, there would much more open area to expand onto than the proposed site . They could not move their homes to a site that would please the proposed complex, but the complex could move to a more agreeable spot . He said they also had a few vandalism problems up to now. He felt this would increase that tremendously. He stated that this was not the right location for this complex. MR. PATRICK LYNCH, Park Palms Complex between Hovley West and Hovley East off Portola , stated that a few years ago he was the president of their homeowners association, but was not speaking in behalf of the current president of the association who was also present. He said that he was speaking on behalf of 55 people whose names he had on a petition. He noted that he started at 3 : 00 p.m. on Friday afternoon when he 26 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 ..� heard for the f irst about this proposal . He heard about it from a lady that worked at Price Club that lived in the Portola Country Club. He and the residents on the petition felt there would be an adverse impact on the property values in the years to come as a result of this project. He commended the developer and whomever assisted him in the presentation. He felt it was a fine looking complex, but agreed with previous testimony that it should be someplace else. He did not believe that was a good location and when he moved here in 1987, he did not contemplate that part of that acreage would be developed commercially. He expected there to be other residences, hopefully nice ones . He turned in the petition to the commission. Chairman Spiegel clarified that by state law it was required that the city notify anyone within 300 feet of any proposed development and if notification was not received, it was because the location was outside that 300 feet . MR. VIC ROBERTS, 512 Flower Hill Lane in Palm Desert, stated that the staff report defined four findings or +r conclusions that had to be arrived at in order for the conditional use permit to be approved. "Location is in accordance with objectives of the Zoning Ordinance. The proposed conditional use would comply with each applicable provision in this title. The proposed conditional use complies with the goals , objectives and policies of the city' s adopted General Plan. The proposed location and operating conditions would not be detrimental to the public health, safety or general welfare . " The staff report concluded that without exception the necessary findings had been made and recommended adoption by the planning commission. He stated that the staff report was an interesting document to read. Those with an opportunity to read it should notice that interwoven in the sentences defining the necessary findings was other comments and observations such as, "The facility will enhance the tourism economic base of the city by providing another recreational venue to the existing golf, tennis and shopping foundation of the city' s economy. " He said it was difficult to understand the reasoning of the staff when they could equate the multi-use pay for play recreational facility with its softball fields and volleyball courts to the Bob Hope Classic, the PGA Tournament, the Skins Game, to �.. 27 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 � nationally televised tennis championships and the fabulous boutique shops along El Paseo. Another interesting fact was that alcoholic beverages would be onsite but its consumption would be limited to the spectator section, which he felt was contrary to what the developer said, and would be continuously monitored and patrolled. He said that monitored and patrolled by whom was in doubt . He found it strange that the staff had no problem reconciling softball fields that would be lighted every night of the week until 11 : 00 p.m. along with moderate consumption of alcoholic beverages as having no detrimental impact on public health, safety or general welfare. He stated that an even more interesting document was the Initial Study Environmental Checklist. He said that although this document was on City of Palm Desert letterhead, it was unsigned. He did not know who completed the evaluation. On page four, paragraph 14 under Public Services the statement, "Will the proposal have an effect upon or result in the need for new or altered governmental services in any of the following areas . " He said that under the line for police protection it was marked "no" . He felt this was the culprit of why the commission had the memo from Lt . �„ri Janes . He found this so incredible that he called Lt. Janes at the Palm Desert Substation this afternoon before the meeting. The purpose of the call was to see if his department concurred in any way with this finding. He replied that he had never heard of a 20 acre multi-use recreational facility nor had his department views or assessments been solicited by any City of Palm Desert official . He stated that he read the staff report to Lt . Janes over the phone and he indicated that he was greatly alarmed that onsite sales of alcoholic beverages was being proposed on city land. He further stated that it was his view that selling beverages in an open facility located on city land and exposed to public view was illegal . Lt . Janes further stated and authorized Mr. Roberts to quote him at this meeting that had he filied out the environmental checklist, he would have checked the "yes" or "maybe" column, but not the "no" column. In summary he said it was his view that the required finding relative to not detrimental to the public health, safety or general welfare was not substantiated or justified by the facts or other supporting evidence offered by staff . Therefore, the conditional use permit application should 28 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 �.. be disapproved or a condition added that, "onsite sale of alcoholic beverages is prohibited" . Since the developer said i� was not necessary to make the project economically viable, there should not be a problem. MR. CHAD GUZMAN, a resident of La Quinta, stated that he was a multi-sport athlete and he raced wheel chairs, played tennis, basketball, and was in favor of the complex because Mr. Rick Odekirk expressed interest in hosting various events at the complex such as over the line tournament, or basketball , and this valley was lacking in facilities for that reason. He said there was a number of disabled athletes that would like to be involved and this would be a good opportunity for them to do so. MR. JULIUS NABLAF stated that he had a two-fold interest. His business and his residence both straddled this project . His business was located on Avenue 42 and he was concerned about the buffer zone and what would happen there, as well as egress in the future and the impact to Avenue 42 . He said that it was a narrow '�" street . He indicated that he lived in Portola Country Club. Like everyone else, he felt it was a good idea, but should be located somewhere else. He said that he did not want to sit outside and hear noise and see liqhts . He wanted the planning commission to question the developers about this strip with the trees and what would happen there and if it would be for parking in the future. MS . LOLA MARTISFICH, 74-024 Angeles Camp in Portola Country Club, stated that not everyone living in Portola Country Club was opposed to this project . When she heard about the development she made sure she found out all about it and attended the meeting the developers made at their club and after understanding exactly what the developers planned to do, she was fully in favor of the project being built. She felt it would be a great attraction to the valley, but was also comfortable there would be no negative effect on their club. Also, she stated that she formerly served on their board of directors and remained very active at Portola Country Club and knew nearly all the homeowners and she had made an effort to talk about this project with a great many of them. She found that the majority of the members �... 29 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSYON JUNE 1, 1993 � were either in favor of the complex or simply didn' t care if it went in or not . The people opposing the developer did not speak for the whole club. Those not opposed realized that this land would not be vacant forever and they felt the sports complex would be a better neighbor than many alternatives . Their board of directors was not opposing the development and the board' s policy was to not take an official stand. She asked that the commission take into account that the opposition did not represent the entire club' s view. She said they have close to 1, 000 residents and only the opponents were present . MR. MIKE FROST, Chaparral Country Club, stated that when he first heard about the proposal and after attending the Portola Country Club meeting and then at Chaparral he was in favor of the project. He felt it was a very needed project for the city and what they had in mind was a need for the adults . He said that he played slow pitch softball and it was a fun sport to play, but watching it was very dull . He indicated that he had two problems : 1 ) he felt the applicant was less than honorable when they failed to mention there was a phase �r 2 project consisting of miniature golf, skate board arenas, an amphitheater for concerts, and that never came up at their meeting or at Portola and he felt they owed it to the public to tell them about their future plans and they did not do this . He said that his other problem as a resident of. Palm Desert was the financial arrangements . He understood the decision as to setting fees or repayments were not part of the planning commission ' s review, but felt it had to be part of the commission ' s decision and that was if the crowds were as small as they said they would be and if they were going to hire 61 employees to help manage the park, how they intended to make enough money to repay a $2 . 8 million loan they were asking for from the City of Palm Desert needed to be answered. He felt the questions regarding phase 2 and the money situation needed to be addressed. MR. PAUL CAMPBELL, 73-910 E1 Paseo, stated that he was a member of the Palm Desert City Promotion Committee and the purpose of the committee as established by the city council was to promote the City of Palm Desert to attract visitors here and to create events within the city to entertain the members of the community. He said 30 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 +,.. that this year the budget for that committee was $240, 000 and he only mentioned that to show that the city put a certain amount of importance upon the promotions that take place and the attractions to the visitors here. He stated that the sports project was presented to the promotion committee for their review and was unanimously supported and recommended to city council . He indicated that he and the committee felt that this project was perfect for the community, was highly promotable, and was the sort of thing that could be advertised and would attract people from out of the area that would not otherwise come here. He felt it complimented golf, tennis, and filled a niche that had up until now been unfilled. He said that it seemed tonight that the word money was "somewhat of a dirty word" but he felt the project would bring new money into the city and not just be a matter of re-churning the money already here . He stated that they talked about the amount of money that would be spent in the complex itself for incidentals such as beer and apparently that was the only place in the area that it was illegal to drink . He said that maybe at Chaparral or the other � country club they didn ' t serve any beer or wine. He indicated that when these people came, they would spend tremendous amounts of money during their visits even though the tournaments were fairly short . They had heard some about crime, but he noted that these teams would give the young people of the community an opportunity to join teams instead of gangs and it would get them off the streets and give them something to do. Mr. Odekirk alluded to the fact that it would relieve pressure on other ballfields so that the children would have an opportunity to do something other than congregate in the mall and elsewhere. He said he was surprised about the complaints about noise because people live close to each other. They had heard that this was a beautiful residential area all the way out to Avondale Country Club, but there was no mention to the fact that the industrial Cook Street zone was close to it, and outside of the Dialysis Clinic within that industrial area was where the garbage trucks were parked at night and where they cleaned them up and rehabilitate the garbage dumpsters and paint them. There were body shops with spray painting booths in that industrial area, so there was pollution coming from there that no one was taZking about. He also mentioned the PM10 that � 31 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 � blowed dust off those vacant 20 acres , plus the other area that was still undeveloped. He felt that once this project was completed there would be a big reduction in dust in that area. He wondered who was polluting who. He said that the ball players were not out there walking the dogs in their neighbors yard, or having a barbecue in the back yard and smoking out their neighbors . He felt that when people bought land next to vacant property they were always exposed to a certain risk and that risk might be on the up side or the down side depending on how it was interpreted, but it was not the duty of the planning commission to determine whether their values should be kept either plus or minus . In urban development, he said that the theory he always heard was that "I was here first so I 'm entitled to special rights and consideration" had been tried and tried again and he felt it was as ludicrous today as it had ever been. He said that no planning commission was obligated to maintain the status quo. He stated that the planning commission itself was the symbol of controlled change and urged them to approve the project for the benefit of the whole community and not to be swayed by the small vocal special interest group. �.�+ MR. DAVE BUTTLES, head baseball coach at the College of the Desert, said that he had been involved with youth sports all his life and he felt this project would be a huge boost to the local youth sports programs in the valley. It would provide quality facilities for the youth of the valley for camps , lessons , and championship baseball games; he said he was talking about little league, not adult baseball . He stated that this would provide some good clean family recreation and would get kids off the street and into sports and activities so they wouldn' t go around destroying neighborhoods . MR. DENNIS CHAPPLE stated that he was present representing three entities : 1 ) he was vice president of the Chamber of Commerce and this item went through their business action committee chairperson and was brought to the board of directors and was unanimously approved as presented for recommendation to the planning commission; 2 ) he was president of the Desert Contractors Association and this project was brought to their board and they reviewed it and were given confirmation that local contractors would be utilized in the efforts to 32 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 ... build this complex; and 3) he was a parent and resident in Palm Desert . He asked what children do here; there was a lot of information on golfing and what the adults over 55 could do, but he stated that this was a year round community and this was where he makes his living and didn ' t have a nest egg he was working off of or his second home. He has a family here and they enjoy living in this community and they love it here as well as the adults and elderly people of the community do. He felt the community could be shared with them. For the people graduating from high school, the activities were limited to what they could do in sports and physical activities . One of the main reasons for gang problems was that there wasn 't enough of these type of facilities available for participation in. He indicated that he has a business in Palm Desert with 22 employees and they range in age from 67 years old to 17 years old. In discussing this project with his employees , the first thing they said was maybe they could put a team together. These were the kinds of comments he had heard from several different companies throughout the valley. He heard mention of the traffic on Portola and how it was backed � up. He said that the only time the traffic on Portola was backed up was when the storm washed out Cook and Monterey. That was why the stop signs were put up and the additional traffic was there. The bridge was being built on Cook Street and that would eliminate the majority of that kind of problem. He said that he had heard mention that these people would not stay at the Marriott or shop on E1 Paseo; he has three children and they go to little league play, they had been to Temecula and they have stayed in Marriotts and shopped on El Paseo and in the mall and other stores . He heard someone relate this to the Bob Hope Classic; he asked how many people present had played in the Bob Hope Classic, yet many would be able to play in this sports arena complex. He asked if they served alcohol at the Bob Hope Classic and at golf tournaments ; he answered yes they do. This was something that was needed, it was growth, and he said that he was tired as a citizen of this community of hearing "not in my backyard" . MR. BILL SHERMAN, a Portola Country Club resident, stated that he also worked at the College of the Desert Driving Range three days per week for four years . He said that was the major sports complex in Palm Desert �... 33 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 ��li right now and they did less than $300, 000 worth of business this year. Today, June 1, from 8 : 00 a .m. to 2 : 00 p.m. they did $126 in driving range business . They were not objecting to having the sports complex and it was needed, but not in this spot. He said that everyone knew about the driving range and if it only does $300, 000 per year, he asked how this complex could do what they propose. MS . KAY WELLER, general manager at Bryer and Dunn Associates in Palm Desert, stated that she was present representing a segment of the tourism industry known as destination management . Her company was one of several in the valley and Southern California that was contracted by meeting planners of major corporations and �ravel houses to plan and operate onsite ground services for groups that came to their destination for meetings and incentive trips . Their services varied and included many aspects of a meeting ( i .e . group transportation, tours of the area, theme parties, entertainment, and special events) . She said that in today' s competitive market, clients looked to them to propose unique and creative proqram ideas, particularly in the area of u„r recreation. She stated that they were constantly being challenged by destinations such as Tuscon, Phoenix, Scottsdale, and San Diego. Those were the main competitors . She said that was why she was excited as a destination manager of the proposed sports complex that would be an additional venue they could offer their clients . They would be able to support the complex with creative corporate events ranging from team building tournaments and activities to sports theme parties as often as the facility was made available to them. There was support from many different people representing their own interests and what this facility would mean to different people. She felt it would be good for the youth and the family; she was the mother of a 12 year old son who plays in the Coachella Valley sports program in both basketball and baseball . She felt that adult recreation with the softball tournament players was a great avenue and wanted the commission to know that there was a corporate interest in this area and in this sports complex, and she hoped collectively that the commission could see the positive benefit to all concerned and would agr.ee that the chance to boost the community economic capacity would not be defeated . 34 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 +�. MR. DON ASPEN, a resident of Portola Country Club, stated that most of the questions he had were answered tonight and he would not be before the commission tonight if it hadn' t been for Lola givinq the impression that there were many people at Portola Country Club that were in favor of this project . He felt that those that were not present, either out of town or not able to attend, were also of the feeling that this would present a negative situation for the residents . He stated that if a vote was taken of those present the commission would find that there were many people opposed to this development. He noted that there were hundreds of vacant land available on the north side and this would be an excellent project for that area . He did not feel anyone present thought this was not a good project and was not needed in Palm Desert, but not next door to a retirement community. MR. DAN STICKLE, 74-360 Angeles Camp Road in Portola Country Club, stated that they already had the lights at the high school and the noise from those games as well as noise from the middle school . He said that by '� letting the developer build in there the city would be land locking them if the apartments were put in that were planned next to them. He indicated that if this were in another area there would be room for expansion. MR. LARRY BIGGERT, general manager of the Holiday Inn Express in Palm Desert, stated that he was in favor of the project and it was needed for tourism dollars and would be great for the kids in the area and should be supported. Chairman Spiegel asked if the applicant wished to address the commission in rebuttal . Mr. Ron Odekirk said that he was pleased to see that everyone felt this was a good project for the valley. He was disappointed that they had not been able to answer their concerns and fears enough . There had been a few things said that were not true: there were no plans to expand and there was no second phase. When they first came to the city they were looking for a larger site and hoped for room to expand, but that was withdrawn at the council level and it was made plain to them that this was all that was available. Any comments ` 35 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMI5SION JUNE 1, 1993 � regarding the second phase were not true. They were prepared to live with this project and they didn ' t think there was room for expansion in this location and that adjustment was made to their thinking. He said that someone commented that over 200 , 000 visitors were planned here; he did not feel their projections were read correctly. When they were fully operational with all tournaments played, all charity events , all sports, they would only bring in 100, 000 per year, not 200, 000 . He stated that they would like to be a good neighbor and had made an attempt to meet with the people of the country clubs and asked them to go with them to ease their fears about the lights and noise . Rick Odekirk had a letter from the developer of the Palm Gate development which was a new residential project just west of the high school . They asked a number of Portola Country Club residents to go with them when that four field complex was full of kids and their families to listen to the noise. It was the same distance as Portola Country Club. Nobody would go with them to listen or see the lighting faciliY_ies at Redlands . The � attempt was made to ease their fears . He said that he � was 62 years ago and liked his peace and quiet, but he � lived in the city and had lived most of his life across from a country club in Glendale and for the last 15 years in the desert and those country clubs had parties, dances, and he heard the music, the noise and from the parties around the pool . He stated that they were living in the city and with people and he heard his next door neighbors having parties once in a while. He was not trying to suppose that his living standards were the same, but they lived in the city with each other and tried to accommodate each other. He said that he was trying to accommodate them by mitigating their concerns . He noted that the letter from Mr. Dunham of Palm Gate stated that his residents didn' t complain about the noise and they were the same distance as Portola Country Club. He believed that they had made a sincere effort to be cooperative and wanted to be a good neighbor and pointed out that one lady said that they don' t speak for everyone in the club. Mr. Ron Odekirk said that he went to the streets of Portola Country Club and spoke with many people. The lady was not lying when she said that most people she talked with were not opposing the project. The people 36 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 ... that opposed the project were before the commission tonight. He felt that left a lot of people that were unrepresented that were not here and by their own admission there were a couple hundred people that had left town. That left 600-700 people still in town and only these people chose to attend. He said that he had a hard time getting people to go on record that they supported the project because of the uproar going on among this group of people. They didn ' t want to oppose their neighbors . He noted that it was tough to get people to go on record in favor of a project. The ones that showed up were the ones opposed. He indicated that there were a lot of rumors and a lot of information was based on non-facts . Phase 2 was not a problem because it doesn ' t exist, including the miniature golf . The concerts and amphitheater effect had never been requested and the only musicians that came into their complex would be there to play softball . A gentleman objected to the fact that this would be another Disneyland; they were striving to be Disney-like in quality, not a Disneyland. They felt that their quality was the number one thing to live up to and they wanted '�""' to be the Disney quality of the sports world. Also, the numbers given for the number of visitors, when they were fully operational they expected to bring in 101 , 000 visitors to this area that would stay an average of two days and a night. The local chamber of commerce supplied them with information that said the typical visitor spent $146 per day. They were not projecting that and to be conservative and realistic, they felt their people would spend $100 per day for their hotels and eating. If that was true, that would be $20 million in spending that they would bring into the community, which he felt was significant . He noted that a couple of people insisted that they were lying to the commission and they would bring in more people than they said--they could only bring in as many people as the facility could hold on the week nights and tournament play. They felt it was being built with the seating capacity to bring in 500 people per night . That would not happen . Bring.ing in 150 people would fill their fields, volley ball , and basketball . He said that the site plan went to every meeting at Chaparral and Portola Country Clubs . There was no deceit. He stated that he wanted to set the record straight. +... 37 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 � Mr. Ron Odekirk noted that the vandalism issue was raised, but was convinced that with their security and the fact that this land would be fenced and policed would cut down on vandalism problems . He felt they might have a problem now because of the vacant land where people could jump over their fence and get into their storage yard. It would not happen to them and they were investing $1 million of their own money in this project and he was pleased that everyone was concerned and asking how they were going to make it, but he stated that they knew how to do that; it was their business and they would not be investing $1 million if this project was not going to have a good chance at succeeding. If given the chance, they would do a job that the city would be proud of . He did not feel that people would be as unhappy as they thought they would be if they would just go with them and check out some of the areas already developed . Commissioner Jonathan said that some of the confusion arose from the document that Mr. Moore had given him. As far as the maximum potential use, the document had the larger � figure, but it referred to the phase 1 and 2 , so someone � could have misunderstood. He suggested that this might have been when both phases were being considered. Mr. Odekirk replied that it might have been, but was not a possibility now. Commissioner Jonathan noted that the document made reference to special events and the ability to bring in temporary seating for up to 6 , 000 or 7 , 000 and asked if that could be expected in for a successful media event; Mr. Odekirk said that they hoped so. Chairman Spiegel closed the public testimony and asked for comments from the commission. Commissioner Jonathan stated that he had been a strong supporter of recreational activities for both the youth and as an alternative to some of the other recreational opportunities and was particularly attracted to the possibility that the present efforts could be complimented with bringing in tourists and improving the local economy. He said there were some legitimate concerns that had been expressed about this project that he shared. One was security. He said that he trusted an honest effort was being made, but the city did pay the sheriff ' s department to help with those kinds of concerns and was disappointed that the � 38 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 ... timing didn' t work out and that they had a last minute memo dated June 1 from the sheriff ' s department that stated they wanted to express their concerns and was requesting an opportunity to do that. He stated that he would appreciate hearing from the sheriff as requested. The second issue was alcohol . He said that he had concerns about mixing sports and alcohol and the potential explosive results . He noted that certain professional ball parks had chosen not to make alcohol available and wondered if that might make sense in this situation. He was also persuaded by the reminder that not only was there residential , but existing and planned schooling in the immediate area . He stated that the parking was also a concern. With 285 parking spaces, 90� of the time that might be fine, but for the special events , there was no parking on Hovley, traffic would be a problem, and he wanted to see that area addressed. If there was going to be an attempt as expressed by the applicant to bring in special events with up to 6 , 000 to 7 , 000 people, that was a real problem that had to be dealt with. In general he said that he felt uninformed and wanted an opportunity for this commission to review some of the questions that had been raised, particularly the article given to them tonight from '"� the Desert Sun that indicated that council looked at this project several times and actually had a vote on one occasion. He did not know the council ' s thinking or what they had done or what their desires were and was not sure if that inter-played with the commission ' s decision, but wanted that background information. He noted that there was apparently a proposed potential financial agreement and he was not sure about that and as planning commissioners they could not just close their eyes to the financial feasibility of the project because if it was approved and it went up half way and was sitting there and was bad, the question would come to them as to why they approved it. He felt they should at least be aware of the financial aspect . He did not like to prolong an issue, but felt the item should be continued to give them time to look at it in greater detail and have some of the concerns properly addressed. Commissioner Cox stated that she believed this sports park was something that the city needed desperately. Not only for the teams coming here to play and the young adults to be using it, but the kids needed it. She noted that she did not hear one person in favor of the park state that it had to be in this location--not from the developer or from anyone that really wanted it. She said that she had a problem with ...� 39 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 � knowing that area and it was surrounded mostly by residential uses and when looking at the present zoning, it was zoned open space. She stated that she looked at open space as a park, not a commercial investment . She was also concerned about the disinformation and un-information that had not been supplied and while the financial issue was not part of their purview, she did not feel that a decision could be made without understanding some of the financial ramifications that the city could be facing. She stated that if it involved $2 . 8 million of taxpayers money, they needed to have that information and to understand the repayment of that money, because the city was working for the taxpayers . She was also concerned about the alcohol . She understood that they needed something there to keep the people there to spend money because that was where they would make their profit, but needed further clarification and assurance that it would not cause a problem. Commissioner Cox was concerned about that parking for 285 cars . With three active ballfields with 18 people, coaches, audience, and two teams, that added up to 50 or 60 people or more, in addition to the employees working there. She did not see how there could be more uses in that complex with a 285 car parking rapacity. She stated that she would like further information on that issue . She felt more rl time was needed before making a decision. Commissioner Whitlock concurred. She shared the concerns expressed by Commissioners Jonathan and Cox. She stated that she was also concerned about the hours of operation. The hours up until 11 : 00 p.m. was a concern. She said that she would be opposed to the serving of alcoholic beverages and felt the commission needed to review this more thoroughly in coming up with some mitigation measures that had been overlooked. She noted that the city had been through this with the Civic Center Park and in helping the residents of Monterey Country Club; she felt there were many similarities and the homework had not been done in checking on what had been done for Monterey and what they could be doing for Portola Country Club homeowners . She also expressed concern on the comments they had not been able to receive from the sheriff ' s department. Commissioner Beaty stated that he had strong and mixed feelings about the project. He had been deeply involved with youth sports in the valley and if there could be some spinoffs from this to help the kids that were the families of the support people that take care of the retirement � 40 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 +... community, it was desperately needed. He did not know Rick Odekirk personally, but knew some of the players he had worked with and he did not think there were any fees involved. Everything he had heard about the Odekirk family had been very positive. He participated in adult softball in Palm Desert and had never seen a problem with alcohol , though it was around even though it was not supposed to be at some of the local parks . The type of people participating, especially in the tournaments, were there to play softball , not to drink beer. He noted there were always a few exceptions to every rule. Except for the public address system, which he felt was a big noise issue, he was not real concerned about noise; with modern technology and the presentation given with the Civic Center Park he did not have a problem with lighting; and given the scope of the facility and the money going into it, he felt security would be mitigated by the developer. He said that he did not know about traffic--he felt it sounded a bit small, but traffic was already heavy now. He noted that he has a business in the Cook Street complex and lived off Hovley Lane himself, so he was very familiar with the area. The financial aspects were also a concern, but he hoped the city knew what they "" were doing and wanted to see more information. He suggested that if the project were to be approved, the public address system would have to be conditioned. Also, the hours of operation and 11 : 00 p.m. closing time was a concern. He stated that he would also like to see something in writing that the facility would be shared with the youth for their tournaments, which would be an attractive thing for the local groups . He said that this year they were hosting the entire west coast, which included Washington, Utah, etc . , 15 and 16 year old Pony Baseball Tournament and also the Southern California Tournament, which was a majar expense. He said that facilities were needed. He indicated that he would like to see the facility and was impressed with the presentation, but questioned if other sites farther north were considered and if there were any possibilities . He also noted that he would like to hear from the sheriff ' s department. He stated that he would support a continuance. Chairman Spiegel stated that it was a magnificent sports complex and if it were b�iilt, he was sure people would come. He felt that it was the nicest softball complex he had seen in his travels . He said that he had some major problems, but they were with the city. They were given an Initial Study of Environmental Checklist that was done on May 27 , 1993, which �... 41 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 ; � was last Thursday. In the checklist one item of concern was noise, but he didn' t get any solution for noise from the city. He stated that had to be settled from his standpoint before he could vote one way or another. Secondly, the city had no plans for major events; the applicant hoped to get 5, 000 to 7 , 000 people, but he asked what the city would do with them. They had to know that. Like the Bob Hope Classic in Rancho Mirage, they know where the cars were going to be parked when they played at Tamarisk . They had to know where the cars were going to parked when they were trying to get into the ballfield. Alcohol was also a problem, especially when the police department said they did not know anything about it and had a problem, then there was a problem. He felt that a traffic study would be a good idea. He knew that Hovley could not take care of a 5, 000 to 7 , 000 person event. He noted that there had been some discussion on taking 42nd Avenue through and asked what the city' s plans were . He asked if there would be entrances into the park from Avenue 42 in the future because that could effect many people. The number of employees needed to be clarified because someone said 13 and another person said 61 ; he asked how many there would be and how many there would be for security on an � average night and for a major event. He asked if there would wwM be three PA systems , or one, or none. That was another question that was not answered. Also, he had a problem with the city being a banker. In today' s economy, he would rather see Palm Desert National , Bank of America, or any other bank in the valley as the applicant ' s partner. He stated that was his own personal feeling and until those questions were answered, he could not vote on the project . Mr. Diaz stated that as far as the sheriff ' s department having a copy of this plan, as indicated in the staff presentation, in the future they would be routing all plans to someone else in the sheriff ' s department . Someone had the plans three to four weeks before the staff report was done, and a memo was given to him from that individual not having an objection. Then he got a visit from his superior today as well as another memo at the meeting. He said that would be changed. As far as alcoholic beverages were concerned, if the commission wanted to condition that no alcohol be served on this site they could do so. If they wanted to limit the times that alcoholic beverages were served it could be done. If the commission wanted to leave it up to the sheriff ' s department, staff could to that . As far as parking was concerned, if talking about two teams with 14 players apiece 42 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 � on the fields, that would be 84 players times two that would be two teams coming in and two teams leaving, that would 168 players . The 285 cars would be enough. The comment was made that it might be okay for 90% of the time, but what about the other ten percent. Recreation facilities were no different than church facilities , or retail facilities . Retail facilities were not designed in terms of parking for Christmas and Easter. He felt that 285 spaces would be more than enough. As far as access from Avenue 42 , that would not happen. In terms of phase 2, he learned today there would be no phase 2 and that could be a condition of approval . He said that the appropriate resolution could be prepared to that effect . As far as the hours of operation were concerned, if the commission had a concern about the hours of operation, the hours could be limited. He suggested 10 : 00 p.m. Regarding the agreement, he said he had a tough time telling the planning commission, who was appointed by the council and who had an interest in the community, that the financial arrangements were not part and parcel of the application. He noted they were not, but if commission wanted to instruct him that from now on whenever an agreement came to city for a financial aqreement with the city, and if ""r' the commission wanted to see the agreement hammered out before the plan came before them that would be fine with him. Instead of worrying about the financial arrangements, the commission could then deal with the planning arrangements . He said that he would have no problem taking that message back to the city council and he was sure the council would understand that. If there was any change as a result of the approval process of the application that would change the financial arrangements, then the council could report back to the commission. As far as noise and the PA system was concerned, he tried to carry all the conditions that were applied to the Civic Center Park over to this project . It could be required that no PA system be allowed. Special events could be defined and it could be required that those special events come back to the city for approval and PA' s could be discussed at that time. The concerns could be conditioned and unfortunately those conditions were not in the resolution before the commission, but staff could prepare another resolution with the conditions indicated outlined and before them at the next meeting. Those conditions would relate to alcohol consumption, the PA system, and the right person from the sheriff ' s department could come forward with a recommendation. He shared commission ' s concern that they ...� 43 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 k � did not have enough information before them; that was not staff ' s intent . Chairman Spiegel asked if there had ever been a consideration for another location in the north sphere. Mr. Diaz replied yes and referred the matter to Mr. Shillcock. Mr. Shillcock explained that way back in the history of this development it was originaily discussed as a six field complex in phases . They were looking for a 30 acre site, but because the only way this type of project could work was through a public/ private partnership, historically �his type of operation could not handle carrying costs for the land. They were limited to looking at city-owned property. The other factor they learned by visitinq a complex similar to this in Sunnyvale where they had ten fields , was that slow pitch softball could nat be played in heavy winds, which further limited where this complex could be placed. It focused staff on looking at city property in section 4 across from the Marriott. When tha� idea was discussed they immediately checked with the Marriott to find out how they felt about it, as well as other sites . He said that there were three other potential sites that were looked at . Of the four sites discussed and evaluated in terms of cost and return on wA� investment calculations, city council rejected three of the four sites and specified that the only site they felt was acceptable was on Hovley. Commissioner Jonathan stated that he wanted to comment on some of Mr. Diaz ' s comments . He said that it was a testament to the quality of Palm Desert ' s staff that someone with the experience of Mr. Diaz could legitimately give off good potential solutions to a lot of concerns and so quickly. He said that he would like to see this project go, whether it was at this location or another location. The concerns that had been raised were very Zegitimate, but he felt there was a potential for compromise and often going into something like this it might not seem that way, but they have had experience in similar situations including one recently that was almost identical in the sense it involved a youth sports complex with surrounding residential . It was a similar situation to this and the mitigation measures developed to meet the concerns of residents relative to noise, light, and traffic were sufficiently effective to alleviate many concerns . He felt that ultimately they would end up with a very liveable situation. He said that the question now for them to examine was whether or not the same type of ` 44 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 .... compromise in mitigation could occur here that would: A) allow the ballfields to exist; and B) adequately meet the concerns expressed. He said that when he and others spoke about their concerns, it was not to say that the project wouldn' t go, but from his perspective if the concerns could be met, then perhaps this was an appropriate project . With regards to the financing aspect of the project, he had no problem when proposed projects went directly to council before the commission for conceptual approval , but when the project got into detail of the proposed project and into detailed financial arrangements and then the project came to the commission, then the two issues were interlaced and the financial side could not be ignored. What the commission did tonight would absolutely impact any financial arrangements that had been considered. If the commission liked the project but scaled it down to one ballfield, then it might not be able to sustain a $2 . 8 million construction loan. The two issues were very much interlaced and he felt that if anything was brought back to the council , it would be that if the commission was going to go through that process, then maybe it should be at a joint meeting where the council fills the commission in on the details and tells them where they "'•' are heading and then the commission could do their job. He said that he would move for a continuance and at that time he would like to hear from the applicant as to how he intends to address these concerns and proposed solutions . Commissioner Cox noted that when Mr. Shillcock was talking about the north sphere and the wind situation, it was indicated that this project would be sunken and bermed, in addition to the trees . She asked if that would still not be acceptable in the north sphere. Mr. Shillcock said that was not acceptable going north of Frank Sinatra; if there was some way to regulate how high the batters hit the ball , then maybe it was a solution. He explained that what happened in Sunnyvale was that they had the winds coming in off the bay and what they found was that every team wanted to play in a certain field because it happened that anyone on that field could hit a home run every time they got up to bat. Chairman Spiegel reopened the public testimony and asked for the motion. Mr. Diaz asked that the motion also instruct staff to look at the conditions that he enumerated, in addition to having the sheriff ' s department reviewing them. Commissioner Jonathan also suggested workinq with the applicant on them because if there were conditions that the .r. 45 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 1993 � applicant found completely intolerable, then it would not get them anywhere. Commissioner Whitlock stated that she would like this item continued to a date certain . Mr. Diaz stated that the resolution and report could be to the commission at their next meeting. Action: Moved by Commissioner Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner Whitlock, continuing CUP 93-3 to June 15, 1993 by minute motion. Carried 5-0 . A TEId MINUTE RECESS WAS CALLED AT 9 : 52 P.M. THE MEETING RECOIVVENED AT 10 : 02 P.M. VIII . MISCELLANEOUS A. Review of the Final Environmental Impact Report and adoption of a resolution recommending approval of the Redevelopment Plan for Project Area No. 4 and finding that the proposed Redevelopment Plan is in conformance w/ with the General Plan of the City of Palm Desert. Mr. Yrigoyen stated that before the commission was a recommendation from staf f on the approval and adoption of the environmental impact report. There were three items that he highlighted and those included that the contents of the proposed redevelopment plan as specifically outlined by redevelopment law and that the redevelopment plan was purposely general in nature due to its 40 year duration. The land use permits by the redevelopment plan were those permitted by the City of Palm Desert ' s General Plan and the zoning uses permitted and the redevelopment plan zoning ordinances as they now existed and hereinafter may be amended. He stated that would include the approval of the prezoning of the annexation areas and that the redevelopment plan did not propose or impact any specific development project. Instead, it was designed to correct public infrastructure and facility deficiencies and promote the rehabilitation of revitalization of residential and commercial properties as they develop. He said that if there were any questions regarding the environmental impact report, Mr. Phil Martin of Stevenson, Porto & Pierce was present . 46 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 �... Mr. Yrigoyen stated that he was present to answer any questions regarding the redevelopment plan. Chairman Spiegel stated that in the interoffice memo from Carlos Ortega it indicated that a public hearing was not required prior to the planning commission ' s approval of the resolution finding conformance of the redevelopment plan with the general plan and recommending approval of the redevelopment plan. He asked if that was correct. Mr. Diaz replied yes . Mr. Yrigoyen clarified that a public hearing would be required on the environmental impact report and would be held for the redevelopment plan in conjunction with the report to the legislative body and that public hearing was scheduled to be held before the city council on June 10 . That public hearing was notified and by law they were required to sent the notice by certified mail , return receipt requested to everyone in the project area. They had sent out approximately 12 , 000 notifications to everyone living in the project area. Chairman Spiegel clarified that this meant there was only one public hearing for this type of action . Mr. Yrigoyen concurred. """" Commissioner Jonathan asked about a section that was not included in the project area on Washington. Mr. Yrigoyen explained that that area was currently a county redevelopment project area and because this project area was a new project area, it could not take over an existing project area . That project area fell beyond the area of the annexation also, so it was staff ' s recommendation through the annexation process that the county annex that project area to the city, but not as a part of this project area . Commissioner Jonathan asked if upon annexation that sectiori would become part of the projecY_ area or still remain as it is . Mr. Yrigoyen stated that they were currently pursuing legislation in order to make that happen and would be a separate item. Commissioner Cox asked if this was the area where they were building the new plaza . Mr. Yrigoyen replied yes . Chairman Spiegel noted that in reading the report, there were a lot of improvements that would be necessary to bring the area up to Palm Desert r.ode including sewers, streets and gutters, and recreation improvements . He asked if the city had taken into consideration the additional revenue they would receive from this area and how much it would cost the c9.ty to bring everything up to code. Mr. Yrigoyen replied yes, that it was accomplished through a preannexation .r. 47 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 r/ feasibility study and the annexation process . When they developed the redevelopment plan, they sent out staff inembers from every department that would be involved in bringing that area up to code, public works, code enforcement, and building personnel and asked them to submit a report to them that would identify projects in that area that were needed in order to do that. From that they developed a list of projects that could be considered for redevelopment purposes and developed a price potential and inflation escalator for bonding purposes and came up with a basic project list of about $137 million and with escalation purposes they came up with a redevelopment number of approximately $200 million for the life of the plan. Chairman Spiegel stated that those would come from redevelopment money; Mr. Yrigoyen replied that it applied to the projects outlined in the redevelopment plan. Chairman Spiegel asked where the money came from; Mr. Yrigoyen explained that it came for a diversion of property taxes that were currently being paid. That meant different taxing agencies like the school district, the county, Mosquito Abatement District, Coachella Valley Water District, and all the other ef fected taxing entities that were involved in that area. They were currently negotiating and talking with each of them in order to alleviate any fiscal detriment � they might have. He said they were currently in a fiscal review process wherein they identify and justify any detri[nent as a result of the project. They would submit a report to staff on June 10 . Chairman Spiegel said that before the council went forward with this they would know what the financial impact would be on the city; Mr. Yrigoyen stated that they had to know and redevelopment law would not allow the approval of the redevelopment plan without knowing that and responding to those concerns . Chairman Spiegel asked as a resident of the existing Palm Desert if his tax dollars would be effected or diverted into this area of redevelopment. Mr. Yrigoyen answered not from this area. These dollars would stay in this project area. Action: Moved by Commissioner Whitlock, seconded by Commissioner Cox, finding that the proposed Redevelopment Plan is in conformance with the General Plan of the City of Palm Desert. Carried 5-0 . Moved by Commissioner Whitlock, seconded by Commissioner Cox, adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 1622 , 48 � MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 1993 .r.. recommending approval of the Redevelopment Plan for Project Area No. 4 . Carried 5-0 . IX. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS None . X. COMMENTS Commissioner Jonathan noted that a couple of months ago he asked that the sheriff 's department do a presentation about loitering and graffiti and what was being done because that issue kept coming up. Mr. Diaz stated that there was a new graffiti ordinance, but they would be present at the next meeting, and he would include Frank Allen . Chairman Spiegel stated that Ri.ck Odekirk came up to him and said that the commission acted like they didn' t know much of what was going on and Chairman Spiegel replied that was right . If he hadn' t had a meeting with Mr. Shillcock "'"' regarding something else, he really wouldn' t have known anything about it. Mr. Odekirk told Chairman Spiegel that they had met three times with the city council . Chairman Spiegel suggested that with something as major as this , the commission should have a pre-meeting meeting or a couple sessions in advance so that any questions the commission had could be looked into. Mr. Diaz stated that staff was in the same boat, but it would be ironed out . XI . ADJOURNMENT Moved by Commissioner Cox, seconded by Commissioner Jonathan, adjourning the meeting by minute mot.ion. Carried -0 . The meeting was adjourned at 10 : 14 p.m. RAM N A. DIAZ , ec ary ATTEST: . a���s�f ROBERT A. SPIE , airman /tm ... 49