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HomeMy WebLinkAbout0615 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING TUESDAY - JUNE 15, 1993 7 :00 P.M. - CIVIC CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBER 73-510 FRED WARING DRIVE tam I . CALL TO ORDER Chairman Spiegel called the meeting to order at 7 : 00 p.m. II . PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Commissioner Cox led in the pledge of allegiance . III . ROLL CALL Members Present : Bob Spiegel , Chairman Paul Beaty Diane Cox Sabby Jonathan Carol Whitlock Members Absent : None Staff Present : Ray Diaz f3ob Hargreaves Paul Shillcock Dick Folkers Steve Smith Tonya Monroe IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES : Consideration of the June 1, 1993 meeting minutes . Action : Moved by Commissioner Whitlock, seconded by Commissioner Jonathan, approving the June 1 , 1993 meeting minutes as submitted. Carried 5-0 . V. SUMMARY OF COUNCIL ACTION Mr. Diaz stated that there were no pertinent items at the June 10 , 1993 council meeting . VI . CONSENT CALENDAR A. Case No. TT 26553 - THE FOX COMPANY FOR AVONDALE COUNTRY CLUB, Applicant Request for approval of a first one year time extension for a 20 lot single family subdivision located on the northwest end of Avondale Country Club south of Frank Sinatra Drive . 'Phis was %MW originally processed by the County of Riverside. MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 B. Case No. PMW 93-6 - WESTINGHOUSE DESERT COMMUNITIES, mop Applicant Request for approval of a lot line adjustment for a portion of the general westerly line of Lot C of Tract No. 27228 and a portion of the general southeasterly line of Lot 34 of Tract No. 27520- 1 to accommodate the redesign of Tract No. 27228 . Action• Moved by Commissioner Whitlock, seconded by Commissioner Cox, approving the consent calendar by minute motion . Carried 5- 0 . VII . PUBLIC HEARINGS A. Continued Case No. GPA 93-3 - CITY OF PALM DESERT, Applicant Request for a recommendation to city council for approval of a Negative Declaration of Environmental Impact and an amendment to the General Plan Land Use and Circulation Elements . Mr. Diaz recommended a continuance to allow the commission to receive the report from a special land use committee that was composed of members from the Planning Commission, Economic Development Advisory Committee, staff and outside representatives . He said it would be before the commission at their next meeting. Commission concurred with the continuance. Action: Moved by Commissioner Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner Cox, continuing GPA 93-3 to July 6 , 1993 by minute motion . Carried 5-0 . B. Continued Case No. CUP 93-3 - RONALD ODEKIRK, Applicant Request for approval of a conditional use permit to construct and operate a 20 acre multi-use, pay for play, recreation facility to be located on 20 acres of Wo 2 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 City of Palm Desert owned land zoned open space, located between 42nd Avenue and Hovley Lane, westerly of Corporate Way. Mr . Diaz stated that this item was continued to allow the commission to receive further information and background information that involved presentations to the city council and to allow the commission to clarify some questions that they had. For the record, he noted there was a study session on this issue at 5 : 30 p.m. and a presentation and certain questions and clarifications were made regarding the proposal and the operations of the facility. Commission also received a report from Mr. Diaz dated June 11 where he had ten additional conditions of approval for the project . He said that they limited the hours of operation for Sunday through Thursday from 9 : 00 a .m. to 10 : 30 p.m. with the site cleared of customers by 11 : 00 p.m. ; Friday and Saturday the hours would be from 8 : 00 a .m. to 11 : 00 p.m. , with the site cleared of customers by 11 : 30 p.m. Also, there would be : 1 ) no loud speakers; 2 ) alcoholic beverages and their distribution would be controlled by a program approved by the Palm Desert Police Department; 3 ) the parking lot would be monitored to assure that alcohol was not being consumed outside of the game area premises and that a total security plan would be approved by the Palm Desert Police Department and kept on file in the Community Development Department which would be implemented by the operator; 4 ) special events were defined with a requirement that each special event would require a special permit for consideration and review by the city. Staff recommended approval of the conditional use permit with the conditions from the original resolutions in addition to the ten enumerated in the June 11 staff report . Mr . Shillcock stated that he generated a report to respond to the concerns as voiced by the members of the Planning Commission at the last meeting. Among those concerns were special events parking . He said that for most special events the parking could be accommodated by utilizing available ballfields and for a charity softball event only one field would be used and the others could be used for parking. He indicated that the open space multi-purpose field could be used for parking as well as the retention basin which would be modified . If the parking demand exceeded that, staff had discussions with the Desert Sands Unified School District and indications were that parking at Palm Desert High School would be made available so that they could shuttle people into the facility for those few events when the parking vow 3 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 onsite could not accommodate all the visitors . Regarding the sale of alcoholic beverages , there were a number of agencies that would be responsible for controlling it, mainly Alcoholic Beverage Control which had stringent regulations for the sale of alcoholic beverages and the responsibility of those who sold them to insure that they were not selling them to minors or to someone who had already consumed more than they should . These regulations were enforced with the threat of removal of the license, which in the case of the proposal would severely impact the ability to earn money at the complex. Also, the Palm Desert Police Department reviewed the project and made recommendations . He said that it was felt that all aspects of the control of alcoholic beverages could be worked out . On the issue of financial considerations and of the major business points that had been negotiated, that involved the lease of the loan and the loan of city funds and its repayment . Staff was recommending closing Avenue 42 and abandoning the right-of-way; there would be an access gate for emergency vehicles only. One stipulation regarding the PA system was that loud speakers not be heard from adjacent properties which was not a problem--they just wanted to insure that they could be heard in case of an emergency. It was indicated that in a given year there would approximately 61 full and part time employees , which included security people, umpires , concession people, and maintenance crews . He felt that summarized most of the questions raised . Chairman Spiegel opened the public testimony and asked the applicant to address the commission. MR. RICK ODEKIRK stated that he would not give another presentation or list the reasons at this time why they felt this would be the finest recreation experience an amateur athlete could have, but said they were striving to build the nicest sports complex ever built and he felt they could do that . He clarified that it was not only for adults, even though they had portrayed the project as an adult park and was primarily recreation for adults . He said that letters had been received and the youth communities were excited about using their facilities for some of their big games . They would have a batting cage and an instructional school for baseball , basketball and soccer that they would get benefit from. He felt it would be the finest recreational facility for adults and kids . He stated that it was important that the commission consider that virtually the entire community other than the two country clubs were .rd 4 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15, 1993 endorsing the project and were excited to see it here. There were letters submitted from various factions of the community and offers of support ranging from the merchants, hotels, restaurants, youth leagues, and softball players . Mr. Ron Odekirk added that they had made an attempt to mitigate the concerns and felt they had done that in the case of the lights . He did not feel that noise would be a problem and he noted that Mr. Shillcock had discussed the traffic issue. He said that they were available to answer questions and stated they were trying to be good neighbors . Chairman Spiegel indicated that he would reopen the public hearing for those to speak in favor or opposition to the project . He noted that he asked Mr. Shillcock to speak earlier because he had reviewed the primary concerns raised at the last meeting and he stated that it was not necessary to speak again on the anticipated light level or noise because they heard that two weeks ago. He said that if anyone wished to speak in favor or opposition and had something new to add to the discussion, the commission would be more than open to listen and would stay as late as needed. Chairman Spiegel asked if anyone wished to speak in FAVOR or OPPOSITION to the proposed project . MR. BUD KIRBY, Zircon Circle East in Portola Country Club, stated that he appeared at the last meeting . He said he appreciated being invited to the study session because that gave them the opportunity to listen to the pros and cons . He clarified that the light problem never became an issue with the board meetings at Portola Country Club. He said he told the applicant that they did not like the lights , but they would not waste their time or the city' s time going to Redlands to see lights . They wanted to hear about noise . He noted that he submitted a letter from their committee and referred to a comment near the end regarding the proposed complex here compared to the Tuscon Arizona project . He said that one of the members of their committee had contacts in Tuscon and he read a letter that was received today addressed to Dr. Miller, who lives in Portola Country Club from his attorney in Tuscon, " . . . Enclosed are the pictures I took of the sports park located west of the Interstate 10 and I-10 frontage road on the northwest side of Tuscon. Also enclosed are area maps for orientation . You will note from the enclosed street 5 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15, 1993 maps that the area is basically undeveloped or industrial in nature and the sports park itself adjoins the Pima County Waste Water Treatment Plant . The odors emanating from the treatment of sewage and the industrial nature of the area was found suitable for the generally undesirable sports park operation which causes traffic congestion, light pollution and sound pollution. You will note the general unkept nature of the park facility. The amusement park has been abandoned and only the softball fields remain active. I cannot believe your local city management would allow such a facility near a residential area . The sports park facility creates an obvious negative impact on residential property values , hinges future quality development and perhaps as in Pima County leaves the local government with the responsibility of maintaining a marginally profitable operation. " He said he chose not to telephoto the location in order to emphasize the area in which the facility was located . He distributed the pictures and requested them back after commission ' s review. He also stated that he had a problem with a couple of conditions and the fact that they did not identify the special events which had come up in previous presentations made by the developer where they were talking about concerts . He felt that was something that had to be addressed. He said he did not envision the Boston Pops playing there, but envisioned hard rock. He noted that item 2 said there should be no loud speakers or public address system used at the facility that could be heard from properties adjacent to the site. He stated that they would have sound detectors out there. He said their committee proposed adding, "including those used for special events" , because he did not feel they would be toned down. He stated that this was a conditional permit and then other conditional permits for special events would be issued, which could include rock concerts and boom boxes . He said he appreciated the time given to them and he noted that there was a lot of concern by many homeowners not only in Portola Country Club and Chaparral , but from other local , surrounding parks . He stated that he would appreciate it if the commission would have the courage like in the Wal-Mart situation to tell the city council that this was a great complex, but not adjacent to residential properties . MR. CHUCK DUARTE, a registered voter and resident of Palm Desert, stated that it was a fact that the majority moo 6 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 of the ones opposing the sports complex selling alcohol in a residential area were retired business executives . Many of them including he himself were until recently involved with large companies or private business . He said he was a vice president and handled the Texaco advertising account for 25 years with a budget of $75 million per year. He indicated that he mentioned this only because Mr. Odekirk had talked about having Hollywood people build and paint the stands in the complex shown on the model discussed at the last meeting. He stated that he proposed over 200 television commercials with at least 60 with Bob Hope where they built dozens of service stations and store fronts on studio back lots similar to the grandstands in the proposed project. The point was that they did not last in the rain and hot sun and would soon become eyesores with very expensive maintenance costs , very similar to the painted outdoor billboards on the highway that had to be constantly refurbished . The cost of the project could be staggering. Large cost over-runs on construction, high operating costs , extra sheriff ' s department costs for traffic control because they were talking about thousands of people six times per year. He felt it was unthinkable that the City of Palm Desert would hand over public funds of $2 . 8 million without a formal business plan or a comprehensive profit projection with a critical path to bottom line profits . The applicants said two weeks ago that they would charge $1 . 00 to get in the park--they didn' t even have a plan for that; then they said the token could be taken to the concession stand to get alcohol with it . He said he didn ' t understand that thinking . Fie stated that he hoped the city attorney was interested in the next situation--liability insurance . Mr. Odekirk would have insurance, but this was a joint venture and if , after a few beers , someone pulled out of the complex or any parking facility at the high school after special events and caused an accident and killed or maimed someone, they would sue the City of Palm Desert along with Mr. Odekirk. He asked if the taxpayers could afford a $50- $100 million lawsuit for the sports complex. He noted that there were many empty stores on E1 Paseo and in the Town Center Mall . He did not think this was the time for the city to approve a conditional use permit and risk $2 . 8 million, with a three to five year free ride. He said that no loaning or financial institution would consider lending $2 . 8 million with such limited business information and a very slim chance of full-profit 7 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15, 1993 recovery. He stated that good judgement, government, WAO business and representation of the public of Palm Desert demanded a no vote on this project . MS . DEBRA HOPE, resident of Palm Desert since 1988 , stated that she was also a mother. She lost a son in 1988 in Lancaster, California, and moved here because she had lost her son. At that time she became Vice President of Mothers Against Drunk Driving for the Riverside County Chapter. She expressed concern for when alcohol was brought into a sports complex or any other type of complex where it was a family atmosphere. In 1992 alcohol was involved in 46% of deaths ; as many as 1 . 2 million injuries each year involved alcohol . Alcohol related fatal injuries accounted for 53% of all fatal injury costs . She said that 37% of non- fatal injury costs were alcohol related. Based on the National Highway Safety Administration Estimates , alcohol related crashes cost society a total of $46 billion. She asked if the commission was ready to tell the rest of the country that Palm Desert was the only place that these numbers wouldn ' t count; that we would beat the odds . She said that before losing her youngest son, one month before her oldest son was hit by a drunk driver also and was still in pain from the crash when Now his brother was killed. Her oldest son and his family lived in this community, as well as her daughter and husband. She asked why there was a need to sell alcohol in a family environment--the kids should be taught to have fun without alcohol and drugs . She said that alcohol was not needed to make money and the city should not place a price on life; there must be other ways to make money. MR. STAN RYS, resident of Portola Country Club, Azurite Circle, stated that this project did not have an adequate initial study, causing the commission and residents of Portola, Chaparral , Park Palms and others needless studies, duplications , and aggravations . He said that he was sure that at the end of this meeting there would be many more questions unanswered . He felt this was Pandora ' s Box. Fie had in writing that this was the first phase, then again they heard about a second phase . He asked which phase it was and had read that this project must have all phases to be successful . He felt that there was ambiguity and vagueness . He stated that Palm Desert ' s ordinance for noise said that every person was entitled to an environment in which noise was 8 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15, 1993 ..� not detrimental to his life, health, or enjoyment of property and was for the purposes of securing and promoting the public health, comfort, convenience, safety, welfare, prosperity, peace and quiet of the City of Palm Desert and its citizenry. He felt this was a wonderful ordinance and hoped they could keep it at Portola, Chaparral , Park Palms and in their whole area . He asked that the fullest and utmost consideration be given . He noted that there were over 600 taxpayers in Chaparral and nearly 500 in Portola . They paid their taxes regularly and deserved full consideration so that in their twilight years they could have the convenience of this retirement area . MR. SAM APPLEMAN, Chaparral Country Club, stated that he came into the situation late, but was at a lose; the last time he looked at the demographics for Palm Desert there were approximately 21 , 000-23 , 000 people. He could not believe that the commission could think that the 23, 000 citizens wanted the city to put over $2 . 5 million into a sports complex when the Palm Springs Angeles were a financial disaster. He couldn ' t understand how anybody who was paying taxes could anticipate that such a proposal as weakly presented (as explained to him) could be seriously considered by the planning commission and that they could go to the extent of having surveys made by the sheriff ' s and police department . He said it was easy to figure out that with a complex of this type, people would be brought in from everywhere but Palm Desert and he did not feel Palm Desert built its reputation, image, or current residents and the people they were hoping to attract in the future by this kind of an attitude. MR. DENNIS CHAPPLE, 76-855 California, stated that he also had a business on Joni Drive off Cook Street . He said that this was a sport complex for softball and was needed in this community. This was something they could have for recreation activities . He stated that he was involved with his children in youth sports and they go to Bubba Bear' s or Pizza Hut and they served alcohol at those places; they didn ' t need any more bars in town, but they did need recreation facilities and the emphasizes being put on the alcohol was the smallest part of the whole facility. He felt this facility would bring in healthful sports activities to our community which were direly needed by not only the adult community, but the complexes for the children to play in 9 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 their league tournaments . He said that he went to Temecula every year and his kids were involved in soccer and softball and they went from elementary schools to high schools to play in the leagues because there were no facilities in that area either. They were looking into the opportunity of bringing those people here and providing a nice facility to hold league tournaments and for adults to have league play. Other than that there was not a lot to do in this community except bars . He felt that this might keep people out of the bars and would provide healthful activities . MR. HENRY PRESTON, President of the Cove Communities Youth Soccer Association which was doing business as the Palm Desert Youth Soccer Association. He said they were a non-profit public benefit youth sports organization in Palm Desert and had memberships from Palm Springs to Indio. He stated that he supported this plan, but did not anticipate their league being involved in any scheduled games at this park, but supported this concept because it offered an alternative to the lack of field playing space for soccer that Palm Desert is currently facing. They had many teams trying to form: club teams , adult teams, over 30 teams , and many people had asked about available space to play soccer during the fall season from September through December, as well as their year round program. He said that the biggest difficulty in the soccer program was getting land to play soccer. That was why he supported the concept of this park. MR. DON ASTON, a resident of Portola Country Club, agreed that a sports complex was needed, whether it was in Palm Desert or the immediate area, but felt that with so much land available that wasn ' t going to infringe on any residential properties . Two weeks ago he listened to a report that a survey had been made of other places that could be used and the wind was a factor; he said he was talking about north of Frank Sinatra or in that area . fie did not feel the wind effected a softball as much as a golf ball and there were plenty of golf courses in this area that were subject to wind . He felt the commission should seriously consider moving this facility out of the residential area . He did not understand why a complex of this type would be put so close to people living in their later years of life that go to bed fairly early. He understood that opening hours could last until 11 : 30 p.m. and wished the commission would reconsider this . He added that if they ..r 10 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 ..� were Fringe-Toed Lizards or White Spotted Owls, they would not have this problem. MR. RICHARD ROBERTS, 512 Flower Hill Lane, said that as stated at the June 1 meeting one of the findings or conclusions which must be arrived at in order for the conditional use permit to be approved was that the proposed location and operating conditions would not be detrimental to the public health, safety or general welfare. In spite of the applicant ' s acceptance of additional conditions of approval as noted in the community development memo dated June 11 , 1993 which addressed in part some of the reservations and concerns expressed by the commissioners at the first meeting, he felt it did not mitigate the fact that Commissioner Jonathan expressed concern about the sale of alcoholic beverages, Commissioner Cox expressed concern about the sale of alcoholic beverages , Commissioner Whitlock was opposed to the sale of alcoholic beverages , and Chairman Spiegel was concerned that the police were ambivalent about the sale of alcoholic beverages . Fie said these were the last statements as of June 1 and they might have had a change of heart since, but that ' s what he had to go on. Lt . Gayle Janes in his new memo of June 10 to `ow planning commission expressed some of his uncertainties and concerns about the sale of alcoholic beverages and the monitoring and control of minors and intoxicated subjects . His memo concluded with still open questions . If as Lt. Janes believed that the applicant ' s request to serve alcoholic beverages was in violation of the city' s alcoholic ordinance, then why was the city considering proposals that aimed at circumventinq it . If the ordinance was good enough to be enacted, then it was good enough to be observed and enforced. The statements of the applicant to Lt . Janes that there were five to six other alcoholic locations throughout with no problems experienced was not the point . The department of community development memorandum of June 11 , 1993 added conditions of approval to the project and specifically nos . 5 , 6 , 7 and 8 were aimed at setting aside the concerns of those who were opposed to the sale of alcoholic beverages on city property under any conditions . If the entire content of Lt . Janes ' memo was considered, he asked who could argue that the proposed location and operating would not be detrimental to public health, safety or general welfare. Since this finding had not been satisfied, he felt it was clear that the planning commission by its own rules should NNW ] 1 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 deny the conditional use permit, or add a condition of "No approval that the sale of alcoholic beverages anywhere on the project would be prohibited. He said this would still allow the sports complex and this should not be a problem for the applicant since he stated to the commission on June 1 that the sale of alcoholic beverages was not necessary to make the project economically viable. MR. DUSTAN SILVER, 77-777 Country Club Drive, stated that he was a 22 year old student athlete at the College of the Desert and he said that he spoke for hundreds of students there who would love to have a chance to play at the proposed facility. He felt there was so little for people to do in the city for people his age and he would jump at the chance to use this complex a couple of nights per week. He stated that he would like to be active and organize a couple of leagues for COD students, mens , womens, and co-eds in softball , volleyball and basketball . He felt this would be a great attraction to the young people of the community who couldn' t spend a $100 a round to play golf . He added that it was hard to find a job due to the economy and this facility would open an opportunity for work. MR. JOE CURREY, a resident of Palm Desert, stated that for 40 years he worked with an engineering company that had 575 graduate engineers with bachelor' s , master' s or higher degrees . He said he found it extremely difficult in reviewing the initial environmental checklist study that some of the questions asked about hydraulics , environmental and other types of questions just had a yes or no. From an engineering standpoint, he felt this was totally wrong and it was like some fifth grader or some sophomore in a chemistry class filled out the application. He said that if this was the kind of initial environmental checklist this city put on in developing questions about new business , then he felt the form definitely needed changed. Mr. Diaz stated that a person with a master ' s degree in political science filled out the form. The purpose of the form and the yes and no answers was to indicate if there could be a significant adverse impact on the environment . When it came to hydraulics and other data, all that information was necessary and collected as part of the building permit process . Before going into that process it was necessary to have a project . If the project could not 12 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 �► meet the building code requirements, regardless of what was approved it would not be built . The reason that the yes and no answers were checked off, and on the yes answers there was an explanation where there might be an adverse impact and how that was being resolved, and on the no answers the reason why. It was principally because the codes and Uniform Building Code and other engineering codes that the city had, in addition to an excellent engineering and public works department which checked into that and it was totally examined. MR. BOB AMOS, 77 -379 Arapaho Vista in Palm Desert, stated that he was a retired police officer from Vernon California and 69 years old. He was currently active in sports and softball in Palm Springs . In his career as a law enforcement officer and during his life-long involvement in sports he had seen the benefits to the individuals and the community that sports programs provided. He said the benefits started with youth programs for children as young as six and seven year olds and continued to senior citizens up to 70 and 80 years old. He said that he traveled with a Palm Springs softball team and they usually played a game once a month. Last September their team qualified for the world softball series held in Detroit Michigan at which time 125 teams from all over the world participated . He felt this was a tournament that provided health and recreation for over 2 , 000 players and their families that participated in the tournament in Detroit . It generated over $2 million in tourist and revenue in a local area community. This year the major tournaments were being held in Scottsdale Arizona and Houston Texas . He said that softball and other sports activities were growing and tournament sites for all ages were needed in this area and these facilities were needed. As a law enforcement officer, he felt it went without saying that good sports provided benefit for everyone in the community. Also, as an ex-officer he had seen very few serious incidents caused by beer and wine at the ballparks . He said that at Demuth Park after ball games the players sat around and had a few beers ; it was not controlled and he had never known of an incident in the 10 years he participated in Palm Springs and he could see no problem with alcoholism in sports . He felt that everyone could not afford to play golf in this area; not at $50 or $100 per round, and more sports complexes were needed to provide places for the kids and the older wow 13 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 people to play ball . He supported the program and felt it would be very worthwhile. MS . SYBIL FROST, 89 Camino Royale South in Palm Desert, stated that not many of the speakers objected to the idea of having a sports center and thought that most of them were parents and grandparents and realized the deep need for playing fields and the things that supported their youth. Their problem with the project was the location. They lived in a beautiful residential area and felt it should be considered in another outlying area in Palm Desert, not in a residential area . MR. DWAYNE BACHMAN, 129 Vista Monte in Palm Desert, stated that he had been a resident for about three years and he and his wife have a 13 year old son who has been involved in the sports activities in the city. He said that he was also an engineer for E . L. Yager Construction Co . and he had seen the plans and the facilities and thought it was a fantastic idea . He also attended the Victory Christian Center on Bob Hope south of Dinah Shore and they had a league . but had a tough time finding fields that were well-kept and available to them. He felt this would be a facility that would be an enhancement to church leagues, softball league play. He �► said that he had known Rick Odekirk for about two years and he had given his son baseball lessons and he felt this was a great idea . He indicated that the more kids and adults involved in sports would mean less problems in the city. MR. AARON WEINBERG, a resident of Chaparral Country Club on the north part of the wash, stated that last year they endured for eight months the city water department at the wash at 5 : 00 a .m. with eight and 12 mechanical machines going on and the motor noise . He said he lived on the wash overlooking the school on Portola Avenue. He did not go to bed early because he was a light sleeper and he said he could see the lights at the school playground because they were on "28 hours a day" . He asked who paid for the light bills . He stated that he did not feel that any of the commissioners lived around where the sports complex would be built . He wanted a little privacy and quietness because they got enough noise from the school on Portola Avenue because he could hear it from his back porch. He said that if they wanted the projec:t., they could put it in their neighborhood or move .it out to Frank Sinatra Drive up in 14 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15, 1993 %V+ the wind belt, where Del Webb Sun City Palm Springs moved and they didn ' t think there was a wind belt problem. He stated that the residents wanted their peace and quiet . MS . LINDA SHRUBIN, a resident of Palm Desert, stated that she was also a business owner and had been active in this community for over three years . She said that her children were already grown and they were girls and not active in softball per se, but had seen the benefit in talking to many people throughout this community. She stated that she was active with the charities and was concerned about how hard it was to raise funds and they donated pictures on a regular basis to help them do raffles and raise money. She felt a program like this had a potential for different charities having games and to earn money in a different way. She said that she would promote that if the project was approved. She also believed in a sponsorship of either a youth team or young adult team and having the business name on the back of the shirts was beneficial to businesses and to groups that would like to be part of the community. She said that she had been in a meeting with other business people of the community that morning who were very pro 'r active and they recognized that younger people were moving into the community with families . She also recognized that a lot of older people have moved here so that they wouldn' t have to work any more and appreciated that, but felt there was a lot of other things going on here and she paid a lot of taxes here because she had a good business and was working hard to make it a very good business, and that had to do with people coming into her business and the growth of the community. She felt that stifling that was like "shooting ourselves in the foot" . She was also concerned about promoting summer activities and part of the business committee that met discussed bringing people out here for nine months a year versus a typical six months a year. She felt that with a project like this there was an opportunity for a year round benefit for adult and youth groups and more of a year round community, which meant tax dollars . She said that the first gentleman who spoke talked about aerial views showing that there had been an amusement park and sports facility in Tuscon and the amusement park had been all but abandoned . He had said that the only thing that remained was the sports park. Obviously, that part was working. She noted that he envisioned hard rock concerts and they would have 15 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 sound detectors around. She stated that virtually w/ everyone giving testimony was for moving the project to another area and they felt it was a good complex, they just didn ' t want it in their backyard. She said that no one wanted it in their backyard, just like no one wanted a prison in their backyard . She said she saw this as a benefit and thought that the commission could see why this area had been designated to have this facility. She felt that if it wasn ' t done here, it would locate in another city and wanted the tax dollars and people to be in Palm Desert. She said that she purposely came to Palm Desert to open her business because she knew it was a very progressive, appropriate place to do her kind of business . She knew not to open a second store in Palm Springs . She stated that she was for the project and as a business owner the city needed to grow to stay alive . It could not go stagnant and cited Palm Springs as an example. MS . KAREN HARTVILLE said that she lives here, pays taxes, and votes here and that qualified her to speak. She agreed that the only thing to do in the desert was to play golf or tennis . She stated that she also lived here in the 70 ' s before the Town Center Mall was put in. She felt that other recreational activities and facilities would breath new life into the area . Healthy, fun, outdoor safe activities for younger people to do were needed. She encouraged the audience to go to Santa Barbara where she lived a number of years to check out what the no growth politics had done to that town; it raised the cost of living and made it an unreasonable place to live. She said she would hate to see that happen to this area . MR. GREG BAGLE, President of Palm Desert Youth Sports , informed commission there were 113 teams , 1500 kids and only four baseball fields . They would like to see a facility like this so that they could use the ballfields . MR. MARK TAYLOR, a three year resident, stated that he had been involved in a lot of sports and was totally for the baseball fields . He felt there was a lot of kids in Palm Desert that needed something to do and this would be great . He said that alcohol was not needed, just the baseball fields . 16 '� MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15, 1993 MR. DOZY CLARK, a renter in Chaparral , stated that he was looking around the area and considering places to live like Chaparral and Mission Hills, as well as San Diego. One of the things he was doing was checking out the facilities . He could not think of a thing said about the sports arena that could not be said about a car wash, jiffy lube, laundry or furniture factory. He said that everyone needed these facilities , but not in a residential area . When he came in one of the first things that bothered him about Chaparral was the vacant land on the east side of Por_tola, which was still a concern. He said he had been in a lot of different areas like Cleveland, St . Louis , Boston, Providence, and almost invariably he felt there was a domino effect . If there was a sports area today, what would go next to it tomorrow. He suggested a bowling alley just like Disneyland, then maybe later a billiard parlor. He said that as he saw it, it was the job of the planning commission to preclude the possibility of industrial and commercial uses creeping into the residential area and if the commission allowed this, that was what would happen. Chairman Spiegel asked the developer for any rebuttal . MR. RON ODEKIRK said there were some inaccuracies stated, but he would not spend a lot of time on those. It appeared that everyone liked their project, they just did not feel this was the location for it . He thanked everyone for approving and supporting the idea of a sports park, but pointed out that immediately to their west was an industrial area, across the street was a commercial hotel and golf course, to its west was a vacant land zoned for multiple residential development and one tiny sliver of their project backed up to the storage yard of a country club. He said they tried to address the area of lighting and noise and felt they had done that . They agreed to have no loud speakers , they were not proposing any concerts , and there was no comparison to the Tuscon project . This one would be ten times better than Jim Hilkemeyer ' s Tuscon project and better than anything built in the country, including the Twin Creek project in Sunnyvale California . He said that the project would strand up to maintenance and indicated that the top Disneyworld builder of sets told them he could build their sets to stand up for five years maintenance free and they had done that at Disneyworld. This was not a plan that was not thought rr. 17 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 through; it was very carefully thought through and the m1 cost of maintaining it as a beautiful park was thought through. He said this program was being used at other parks; there was no free ride and they were paying their debt from year one and they had a plan to control alcohol . MR. RICK ODEKIRK said that the lady from Mothers Against Drunk Driving had a bad story and he also had a close friend that had been killed in a drunk driving incident . He stated that he felt as strongly about it as she did, but they were no different than a family style restaurant and it was their job to patrol it, police it and administer that facility the way a restaurant who expected people to return to their business did . That was his feeling on that . As far as the police, they would have to answer to them and the sheriff ' s department was satisfied that they could work it out to their. satisfaction. They were willing to do that and adhere to their specifications . MR. RON ODEKIRK stated that given a chance they would have a project that everyone would appreciate, including members of the local country clubs . r/ MR. RICK ODEKIRK said that both Pastor Dave Moore of Southwest Community Church and Pastor Keiffer of Hope Lutheran Church had both contacted him and enthusiastically endorsed them and wanted to run church leagues out of their facility. It would not only be people drinking and causing trouble, or gangs and trouble makers; there would be a lot of good people and church going people there. Chairman Spiegel closed the public hearing and asked the commission for comments . Commissioner Jonathan stated that he was sympathetic to the concerns of the residents in nearby areas , but felt it should be understood that there are other segments in the community. He said that the city was a community and while it did not have to operate as a family, it was close to it and for different segments there were different needs . That was why there were different facilities in the community to meet those needs . This particular proposed facility met certain needs and there were segments in the community that found that desirable . They heard from retailers , hoteliers, developers , youth activity leaders , and others that found 18 V.rr MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 ... this type of project desirable. That didn ' t make the potential problems go away, but it should be recognized that a large segment of the Palm Desert community desired this type of facility. Another concern was voiced about rock concerts--the commission was in the business of listening to real problems and seeing if there were real solutions; this was a real problem and the city did not want undesirable events coming in; fortunately there was a real solution proposed by staff and it was one of the conditions of approval , which meant that the applicant/developer must comply with it in order for his project to go forward. That condition was that any special event required a permit which involved an application submitted in detail and reviewed by the city public safety agencies for the event to move forward, as in the case of any special event . One of the approving agencies was the sheriff ' s department . He noted there was some discussion regarding the financial arrangements that the city may or may not enter into; it was his understanding that they have not as yet . Generally as commissioners that was not their domain. He said that it was the council representatives that entered into financial arrangements . As far as why in this location, he often asked that question himself . He said there were some persuasive arguments that the history and background involved with this particular 20 acre site that was part of an arrangement the city entered into a few years ago that resulted in the city having ownership of this particular 20 acres . With the ownership of the 20 acres came a restriction that would be difficult to undue, if not impossible. That restriction was that the zoning of this site was open space; that meant no office building, apartments or many other such uses . A park was practically the only use it could be used for. There were legitimate questions about why this location and why the city wanted this 20 acres and that was the reasoning behind it. When comments were made that this was a good proposal but not here, it was not enough of a reason because that was a generality. It had to be specific as to why not in this location. Were they bothered by lights , noise, or traffic and if so, were there workable solutions or not . He said he had a great deal of trust in the city' s staff and if there was a workable solution, they would come up with it . When someone said that it was fifth graders that came up with the checklist, that was absolutely wrong and Palm Desert was one of the best cities in the desert and part of the reason for that was they had one of the best city staff ' s in the desert and just about anywhere. He said that he had confidence in the work they do. He indicated the commission was looking at potential problems with lighting, noise, traffic, alcohol , 19 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 and hours of operation . The location was not completely out Wo of the question because it was buffered by an industrial zone, by a major hotel , and by open land but there were residents reasonably close that had raised these legitimate concerns . Regarding lighting, the commissioners had been through this issue with the Civic Center Park and they had been educated about proper lighting . He stated that he was convinced that the lighting was state of the art and was a type that would not spill over light; not the kind like at the driving range which was a Community College issue that was not under the control of the city, although they continued to work on it. He indicated that the lighting for the proposed development was not that kind, but state of the art . The noise problem he was satisfied had been mitigated properly. The field was dropped ten feet , the outside had been bermed, and there were 60 foot oleanders which would buffer lights and noise. Noise generated by traffic according to the analysis prepared was not material , so the noise problem had been mitigated. He stated that he was very concerned about traffic, but there were conditions of approval that could solve that problem ( i .e. the extra parking for special events would have to be addressed for the permit to be issued; parking on the field, a shuttle from the high school parking lot, and other proposed solutions ) . There would not be a situation where an event would take wed place without the city knowing about it or approving it and traffic would have to be worked out in order for the permit to be issued. He said that regarding the alcohol situation, he would like to hear from the other commissioners because it was an issue that needed to be dealt with and he was sensitive to improper or irresponsible uses of alcohol and the detrimental effects it causes in society. He also wanted to hear from the other commissioners about hours of operation. fie said he had his own opinions regarding alcohol and hours , but wanted to hear from the other commissioners . He felt it was a wonderful proposal in terms of what the city needed from the prospective of business , recreation, youth and other needs . He said that he had been very persuaded, particularly by the ten conditions of approval that were in the June 11 memorandum and he would require that those conditions be placed as part of the approval for the project. Commissioner Beaty stated that he made most of his comments at the last meeting and most, still held . From his past experience generally alcohol and softball were not a problem. Regarding the location, the alcohol, and the traffic problems , they would not change if the facility were to be moved to a different location. As Commissioner Jonathan 20 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15, 1993 r.. stated, the lighting issue and noise had been addressed to his satisfaction, especially with the restriction on the public address system recommended in the conditions of approval . He noted that he occasionally heard the festivities at the Marriott Desert Springs . fie said that the location was being perceived as a serious problem, but if the lights and noise weren ' t an issue and the traffic had been mitigated, he wondered why location was such a concern. Financially, he seconded Commissioner Jonathan ' s statement about the city having one of the best staff ' s and one of the best city council ' s in the desert and state, and if they saw this as being a financial benefit, he would defer to them. He felt that the Odekirks needed to say when they hoped to make a Disneyland or world class facility here, that they also meant: to be the neighbor and he thought they would be. He stated that he would like to see a senior league. Commissioner Whitlock concurred with Commissioners Jonathan and Beaty. She noted that a couple of weeks ago she said that as far as she was concerned they dial not need to have alcohol served there, however with the mitigating measures proposed by staff in their June 11 memo and the conditions of approval , that would satisfy her if the other commissioners agreed. She felt the hours of operation were still a major problem and although the conditions added indicated to 10 : 30 and 11 : 30 p.m. , she felt that was inappropriate. She would be more comfortable with a 10 : 00 p.m. limit . She said that she would also like to see the condition of the Avenue 42 access closure added to the conditions as number 11 . Commissioner Jonathan asked if the 10 : 00 p.m. closing time was for every day of the week; Commissioner Whitlock concurred, she did not see a need for 11 : 00 or 11 : 30 p.m. On Sundays 11 : 30 p.m. was too late and felt everyone could live with the 10 : 00 p.m. closing . Commissioner Cox said that one thing touched upon was Palm Desert ' s council and city staff , but she also felt strongly that there would be things that would come to them for the community that would not please everyone and there were ways to get these projects mitigated. She felt that was where their strength and the city staff ' s strength lied . They have to look at what would be best for the community and listen to both the pros and cons and come out with a project that was either a go or a no go. They dial not take their responsibilities lightly and commission had now had two meetings and a study session and she felt that city staff, including Mr. Shillcock and Mr. Diaz , provided them with a lot of information so that they could look at the conditions low 21 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 of approval , numbers one through ten and hopefully one through 11 , and say that while .it may not please everyone, it was something that had been given a lot of thought and more people could live with those conditions than if they weren ' t there. She agreed with Commissioner Whitlock that the hours were a problem and would be more interested in accepting a 10 : 00 p.m. closing with fields cleared by 10 : 30 p.m. She stated the other conditions were some she could live with . Chairman Spiegel felt the project was terrific, but was not in the right location . He noted that it seemed like if it didn ' t go here, it wasn ' t going to go anywhere and there were a lot of places it could go and satisfactorily go . He noted there was an area called section 4 in the City of Palm Desert where there were over 180 acres that the city owned up by Frank Sinatra and Country Club and there was talk about having two golf courses up there and if that came to fruition one day that would be good for the city, and if it did come to fruition it made sense to have a ballfield of this type out there. That was his personal opinion . Since there were strong feelings by the people living nearby it, he did not know that it had to be there . When talking about everyone being taken into consideration, they did that with Wal-Mart and the consensus was that Wal-Mart did not make sense at the corner of Country Club and Monterey. They did not say they .r didn ' t want Wal-Mart in Palm Desert, just that this was not the right place for Wal-Mart and that was the reason they voted it down . His comment was that the ballfields would be wonderful for Palm Desert, but that was not the right location . His second concern was the financing and while it might not be the purview of the planning commission to worry about the financing and the city' s money, he had been given a position by the city council and he felt it was important to let them know how he felt . He stated that he was a conservative guy and did not know if this was the right way for the city to invest its money. For those two reasons , he was against the ballfields . He felt it would be a wonderful addition to the City of Palm Desert, but it was currently in the wrong location and should not be financed by the city. Commissioner Jonathan stated that during the time he had been on the commission, he heard many opponents of projects say it should go out into the north sphere and if every project went there they would need to buy another 500 square miles to accommodate them. Chairman Spiegel noted there was currently nothing there. Commissioner Jonathan said that nevertheless, based on the legitimate concerns and what he felt were legitimate, good, effective, reasonable, responsible planning 22 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15, 1993 solutions based on community -wide needs , he was going to move for approval . He pointed out that this was an approval for a conditional use permit and the people here and those not here that might have concerns, they should know that if the project went forward, this would be operated subject to the conditional use permit, which meant that if problems arose, as citizens of the community they had the ability and right to come back to the planning commission, staff and/or city council and say that this developer/owner/person was not complying with the conditional use permit . He hoped that as responsible citizens they would do that because otherwise the commission might not know about it. He felt that the process did work and recommended approval of the project subject to the conditions of approval enumerated as items one through ten with number one being adjusted as proposed by Commissioner Whitlock to a 10 : 00 p.m. closing time and 10 : 30 p.m. clearing time and adding number 11 which was the closure and dedication of Avenue 42 . Mr. Diaz noted that on condition no. 11 it should be that access to Avenue 42 would be prohibited from the facility. Mr. Folkers indicated there were properties zoned to the south of 42nd Avenue that would have to have access and if they did what they were proposing, that parcel would not be able to have access . He said they needed to close off the south portion of the property except for emergency access . Mr. Diaz also clarified that the motion would include the findings and the conditions set forth in the resolution. Commission concurred . Action: Moved by Commissioner Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner Whitlock, adopting the findings as presented by staff . Carried 4-1 (Chairman Spiegel voted no) . Moved by Commissioner Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner Whitlock, adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 1623, approving CUP 93-3, subject to conditions as amended. Carried 4 - 1 (Chairman Spiegel voted no) . A FIVE MINUTE RECESS WAS CALLED AT 8 : 31 P .M. CHAIRMAN SPIEGEL CALLED THE MEETING TO ORDER AT 8 : 38 P.M. r.. 23 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 C. Case No. CUP 93-6 - SHARON FRAZEUR AND LINDA LYON, No Applicants Request for approval of a conditional use permit to change the existing beer and wine license for the Backstreet Deli and Pub located at 72- 695 Highway 111 , Suite A--7 - Mr. Smith stated that the request was to change the existing beer and wine license to a full service alcohol license in the existing Backstreet Deli and Pub. He noted that it was Dad ' s Dog House previously. He explained that the operation did not offer live entertainment, but they had a piano that certain patrons used. Parking was not an issue because this was a small bar operation with a large private parking lot in the Von ' s Center in Palm to Pines West . He indicated that the applicant was requesting business hours seven days per week from 3 : 00 p.m. to 2 : 00 a .m. lie noted that this was an existing business and staff had not been made aware of any problems with its operation . The police department indicated the same . As of today, no comments had been received from the legal notice mailed. He stated that for purposes of CEQA this was a Class 5 categorical exemption. Staff recommended approval subject to the conditions in the resolution . Chairman Spiegel opened the public testimony and asked the applicant to address the commission. MS . SHARON FRAZEUR, one of the partners of Backstreet Deli and Pub, stated that there was a full service liquor license there prior to them purchasing the business . Also, she said she had no intention of changing the atmosphere of the pub and wanted it to remain as a quiet, neighborhood pub atmosphere and no loud music and a Cheer' s atmosphere . Commissioner Cox asked if the current hours were 3 : 00 p.m. to 2 : 00 a .m. Ms . Frazeur indicated their current hours were 11 : 00 a.m. to Midnight during the week and until 2 : 00 a .m. on Friday and Saturday. She said they would like the 2 : 00 a .m. closing time in case there was business available . Chairman Spiegel asked if anyone wished to speak in FAVOR or OPPOSITION to the proposal . There was no one and the public testimony was closed . 24 .� MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 +� Action : Moved by Commissioner Whitlock, seconded by Commissioner Cox, adopting the findings as presented by staff . Carried 5-0 . Moved by Commissioner Whitlock, seconded by Commissioner Cox, adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 1624 , approving CUP 93-6 , subject to conditions . Carried 5 -0 . D. Case No. CUP 93-5 - RICHARD A. KIRKPATRICK, Applicant Request for approval of a conditional use permit for a 4000 square foot family billiard room and entertainment center with onsite beer at 74- 124 Highway Ill ( the former Houston Lumber building) . Mr. Smith stated that the request was to have Hot Pockets Billiard to locate a second location in the former Houston Lumber building. At this time the applicant was proposing to acquire that property, undertake some major remodeling efforts to the building and site and ultimately operate an upscale billiard room and entertainment center. The facility would offer darts , video games , snacks , sodas , beer, and an upgraded food menu . The applicant was requesting hours of operation from noon to 2 : 00 a .m. daily. As indicated, Mr. Kirkpatrick also operates Hot Pockets Family Billiards on Painters Path and had done so for the past five years . The request was a conditional use permit and typically when reviewing such a request staff looked at parking and any impacts to adjacent properties . He explained that the existing site has a main building of approximately 4 , 000 square feet plus lumber storage sheds on the west and the north ends of the property. In order to create onsite parking the lumber storage sheds and racks would be removed from the site and that property developed into onsite parking. This was a goal of the city' s . It was not an attractive situation now and the storage facility along the north side of the property was 2 1/2 feet back from the curb. Staff was looking to get some substantial improvement out of this site; there would be street widening taken, sidewalk installed, and landscaping on both sides of the wall . He said that the first issue that staff addressed in the report was the parking; the ordinance required two spaces per each billiard table and they were proposing 12 billiard tables, hence 24 parking spaces were required. The site plan staff drafted up indicated there could be 25 parking spaces onsite. Staff was curious as to whether or not that would be enough 25 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15, 1993 onsite parking because other businesses in that area offer no ri onsite parking and make considerable use of the frontage road parking. There were 44 parking spaces located between Maple Leaf Plumbing and the slip ramp to the west . Staff conducted a parking survey at their existing location on Painters Path between June 1 and June 7 and that facility also operated with 12 tables . During the daytime hours there were two checks made: an early check between 1 : 00 p.m. and 2 : 30 p.m. and a later check between 4 : 00 p.m. and 4 : 45 p.m. Staff found on average 5 . 4 vehicles parked in their lot during the early check and 4 . 6 vehicles during the later check. He also checked inside to see if the number of people inside corresponded to the number of cars ; there was never more than five people and that included the operator. With 25 parking spaces , staff was comfortable that during the daytime hours there would be more than adequate onsite parking provided. At night when the other businesses were closed, if they had a major tournament running or something of that type, there was adequate parking on the frontage road. He was given to understand that some of those spaces were used by Ruth ' s Chris , which was the only other night operation in that block. The next issue was impact on nearby properties; possible impacts looked at were additional traffic at late hours, slamming of car doors , talking, and that type of problem. Staff felt that traffic into the residential neighborhood could be mitigated to the north if there was no access from the lot allowed onto Alessandro. Staff proposed that the applicant install a six foot wall across the north end of the lot and access would then come from a driveway off the frontage road, where the frontage road was one way westbound. Traffic would exit the site onto the frontage road westbound to that location east of Ruth ' s Chris where the slip ramp came through. The traffic would then travel northbound to Alessandro and at that point they would have a choice to go east or west . Portola was 280 feet away to the west while Cabrillo would be a distance of 540 feet to the east . He felt that was the obvious choice for people living north, unless they happened to live in the immediate area of Cabrillo and De Anza; those streets in that area would be that they would use Portola because .it is an arterial street and would get them to the north end of the city. Someone that might make that movement once would not do it again because it would be quite circuitous . Notwithstanding the limited opportunity vehicles would have to travel Cabrillo northbound staff was concerned that they wanted to operate until 2 : 00 a .m. The only other evening business in the block was Ruth ' s Chris Steakhouse and they closed at 10 : 00 p.m. Sunday through Thursday and 10 : 30 p.m. Friday and Saturday. wi 26 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15, 1993 Staff had been advised that late diners were almost always out by 11 : 00 p.m. Sunday through Thursday and by 11 : 30 p.m. to midnight Saturday and Sunday. Therefore, he came up with conditions that would limit their hours to 11 : 00 p.m. Sunday through Thursday and 12 : 00 a .m. Friday and Saturday. As indicated in the report, staff had received two letters in opposition; since then more had been received. In the packet there were letters from Kathleen Kopp, from the Education Station, also letters were received from Wil Mandel of Wacky Wicker and Gail Gonzales , and a letter circulated tonight from Martha Hall . In summary he explained that the letters in opposition objected to the serving of alcohol , late hours within 300 feet of residences , locating such a use across the street from a day care center, a decrease in property values, danger to children, creation of parking problems , a poor civic image, a jeopardizing of the neighborhood, and negative impacts on other businesses . Staff looked at those letters and concerns and asked if they could be mitigated to a level of insignificance. It was staff ' s feeling that it could be done by creating the onsite parking and adding 25 parking spaces to the neighborhood, by closing off the parking lot and not allowing access other than emergency access onto Alessandro for the fire department. Staff felt the circuitous nature of exiting the site would severely limit the amount of traf f is that would want to travel northbound on Cabrillo. On the desirability of locating a business that sold beer across the street from a day care center he said was a tough call . In talking with Alcoholic Beverage Control they indicated that a public school in that location would be given "automatic consideration" . That didn ' t mean it wouldn ' t be approved, but it would automatically be given consideration. This was a private facility so it did not receive automatic consideration from ABC . Staff recommended approval of the request subject to the parking lot being designed with no access onto Alessandro, being designed by a licensed person in a manner to comply with city ordinance, that fire access be provided for emergency vehicles only to Alessandro, and hours of operation be noon to 11 : 00 p.m. Sunday through Thursday and noon to 12 : 00 a .m. Friday and Saturday. In order to maintain the primary use as a family billiard facility, bar seating would be limited to 20 seats, and per sheriff ' s department parking lot monitoring would be required . Public works department indicated that they were looking for some street widening, sidewalk installation and other fees as described in their condition nos . 1 through 7 . With those conditions, staff recommended approval . 27 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 Commissioner Whitlock asked how the emergency access would be woo closed off . Mr. Smith replied that in this instance there would be a gate installed, so there would not be an opening or pedestrian access and people would not park on Alessandro and walk through the pedestrian gate. He said that it would have to be worked out with the fire department so that they could activate the gate. He indicated they were talking about a six foot high wall and six foot high chain link gate that would be locked. Chairman Spiegel asked if the people using the facility would drive through Ace Hardware parking lot as an easy way out . Mr. Smith felt that during the daytime it would not be the easiest way out; he said he tried it and there was too much movement in that parking lot. He said it worked better to go the 100 ' further to the west . Chairman Spiegel noted that ABC automatically gave consideration for public schools ; he asked exactly what that meant . Mr. Smith explained that they had several levels of whether or not they would hold a hearing; they take the letters from residents and local staff try to determine if they are legitimate concerns and write a recommendation that goes through to Sacramento, who makes the final determination. A public school would get automatic consideration in Sacramento. Mr. Smith indicated that if commission turned the request down, they would definitely not %No hear it; if it was approved, they might hold a hearing . Commissioner Jonathan asked if the commission would get a chance to look at the site plan before it was approved; Mr. Smith said that staff could do that, but it was his intent to take it through architectural review commission only. Commissioner Jonathan noted that the parking ordinance required shading between every three stalls ; Mr. Smith stated that the conditions required that the project comply with the ordinance. Commissioner Jonathan noted that the smaller stalls were 18 feet long and asked if that was in compliance; Mr. Smith replied yes, and that with the location of the wall and four foot landscaped strip, there was a two foot overhang which was typical in parking lots . Commissioner Jonathan felt that to encourage and motivate parking in the lot rather than on the frontage road, he asked if it could be required that the front door be located somewhere within the parking lot. Mr. Smith stated that he had a floor plan and the applicant showed an exit into the rear parking lot , but the front door was shown in its present location at the front of the building. He suggested asking the applicant about that and if it was a security risk, but staff did not have a problem with it . 28 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 Chairman Spiegel opened the public testimony and asked the applicant to address the commission. MR. RICHARD KIRKPATRICK said he was present with his wife, his partner Charles Kirkpatrick, Rick Jr. , and Daughter-in-law Anne and grandchild . He thanked staff for the report, he felt it was very thorough and was willing to adapt to everything suggested . He felt they met all the solutions that came up, but the only situation he did not agree with was closing early. He said that in comparison to a restaurant, they started their business in the evening around 6 : 00 p.m. to 7 : 00 p.m. and by 10 : 30 p.m. to 11 : 30 p.m. their peak at dinner was over and done with, they clean up and go home . He felt that the people that work in these restaurants after they close didn ' t want to go straight home, they liked to have a nice place to go and unwind for the evening and then go home. They usually come to Hot Pockets . He said they do not promote alcohol or beer sales, but pool , and most of the people were pool players . He stated that his place started to fill around 9 : 00 p.m. and from then to 2 : 00 a .m. they make their revenue by renting their tables by the hour. The tables were generally rented 900 of the time from 9 : 00 p.m. until 2 : 00 a .m. and this was where the largest part of their revenue came from. If they were limited to closing early, he felt they would be unable to make their ends meet; this was the only item he wanted commission to discuss . MR. CHARLIE KIRKPATRICK, half partner in Hot Pockets Family Billiards , noted that there was a mention of an upscale billiard room. fie stated that he had one advertisement from Billiard Magazine showing the different styles people were doing in pool rooms . He felt that billiard rooms had changed a lot and grown to be one of the number one indoor sports in America . It was a game played among kings and gentlemen and by anyone who like to play. There was a question of what type of clientele they had. He said that the type of people they bring in and the business they operated was very well monitored and without that monitoring they would not have a business because they would not have a liquor license to speak of ; it would be taken from them. The parking lot monitoring he did not see a problem with; he would enforce it and currently enforced it . He said they swept their parking lot every morning of any cigarette butts or trash and monitored that lot . If 29 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 people were in the parking lot drinking beer, it was his No vehicles or his family' s vehicles that were broken into, or his customers ' vehicles . Commissioner Jonathan noted that Mr. Kirkpatrick mentioned that 99% of his business was from 9 : 00 p.m. until 2 : 00 a .m. He felt that was clearly not children or families . He asked why it was called a family billiard place if 99% of the business was from 9 : 00 p.m. until 2 : 00 a .m. Mr. Richard Kirkpatrick said that in the information he submitted there was a letter from a family that came three or four times a week and they had for five years . They had two sons and two daughters- in- law and the girls came equally as well and joined their leagues and in the eight ball tournaments . Most of the time they were over by 11 : 00 p.m. Their total revenue was from renting those tables by the hour and with all their tables multiplied by a five to six hour period and they had a fairly good income. He said there were a lot of families that came in; he indicated that a former draftsman for the city brings his seven year old boy in constantly. Commissioner Jonathan stated that his children go to bed at 9 : 00 P.M. He asked if Mr. Kirkpatrick would have an objection to locating the entrance within the parking lot . Mr. Kirkpatrick replied that they had a door on the parking lot . Commissioner Jonathan clarified that he was talking ur about moving the main entrance with no access onto the frontage road unless the sheriff or fire department required it . He wanted to encourage parking off of the frontage road and onto the parking lot and noted that people tended to be lazy and wanted to park as close to the front entrance as they could, so by locating it in the parking lot, that restricted the activity to the premise. He stated that he would find that desirable. Mr. Kirkpatrick said that he would not have a problem with that:, but the front of the existing building was glass and there was a door on one side of the glass and another door at the back. He said they could close the one at the front. Chairman Spiegel asked if they planned to maintain the same Houston Lumber building and were just updating it; Mr. Charlie Kirkpatrick said there would be no major construction changes, but painting outside, a new roof, new yard and removal of all the wood structures to make it look like a new building. He said there would also be wiring changes . Chairman Spiegel asked if they would continue to operate the billiard room on Painters Path; Mr. Kirkpatrick replied yes , and they felt that when they opened five years ago they created such a need in this valley that expansion was 30 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15, 1993 ... inevitable. At Painters Path they had no room for expansion, so they decided to find an alternative location to run in conjunction with each other. He clarified that family billiards came from being a family operated business to start with and they promoted family and billiards along with it . They had father and son teams that participated in leagues and they had done a lot of charity work with United Cerebral Palsy and he was currently working with the City of Hope to get a major tournament in the valley for February of 1994 . Chairman Spiegel asked if anyone wished to speak in FAVOR or OPPOSITION to the proposed project. MR. WIL MANDEL, an 83 year old investor, stated that his company was called Will Mandel and Associate and had been in business for 50 years . He said that he lived in Desert Highlands Golf and Country Club and had several pieces of property in Palm Desert , as well as Palm Springs and Cathedral City. He indicated that Commissioner Jonathan stated that he had the best staff and planning department in the country; Mr. Mandel said he had been in this business 50 years and had property in Texas , Nevada, California and had been here since 1925 and Palm Desert ' s office was the finest one and he had never been in a planning department like this one and Mr. Diaz had been very nice and it was why Palm Desert was the finest city in the whole area . In 1977 he saw a building at Highway 111 that was an old warehouse and repair shop and he looked at it and tried to visualize it as a nice building, which became the Wacky Wicker. At that time there was nothing around it . He went down the street and asked Gail Kidder if she would be interested in going into that location; when she indicated that she could not afford it, he said he would fix it up and charge the same amount of rent . As her business improved, she could pay more money. He said a lot of money was put in that building to make it beautiful and she spent thousands of dollars every month on advertising and people from all over Southern California came to shop there . He said that she was very busy and did a good business . They were opposed to the billiard place because of the environment; they had a narrow street, there was a narrow street in the back, a school in the back. He said that he went to see the tenants on the street and 54 people in the area signed that they were against the proposal and he felt that if this put in there would to two losers . He would lose Wacky Wicker because they would move to Rancho Mirage 31 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15, 1993 where there were vacant spaces available, but they WW wouldn ' t move if the billiard place was kept out . They felt a lot of customers would be lost with a billiard parlor next to them. He said he looked at their present location and they had a nice place, but the people on the frontage road did not want it so it should be denied . He complimented the commission on their decision regarding Wal -Mart, but the people said no and the commission went with them. Also, not long ago commission denied Mervyn ' s on Highway 111 because the people did not want them there . He said that if commission let the billiard parlor in, he would not be mad, but he would put in a used furniture store there or warehouse and felt it would be a shame to lose the environment. He said that the city should be kept high class . MR. RANDALL WILLIAM, Vice President of Maple Leaf Plumbing and a stockholder in the company, 74- 160 Highway 111 . He said they were separated from the property in question by an empty lot . They had been in business in Palm Desert for over 20 years and owned the property on Highway 111 , as well as the office building at 74-330 Alessandro which was also in the neighborhood . He said this demonstrated their long term commitment to rl Palm Desert . He noted that he also built a home a few blocks from these two buildings so he could walk to work . The property in question was in a service oriented business area such as Maple Leaf Plumbing, Ace Hardware, Wacky Wicker, Texaco, J & E Automotive, Coachella Valley Office Supplies, Lock and Doors , and Right Way Painting. None of these operations catered to the entertainment or leisure time activities market . Through the years this area of Palm Desert had fostered the needs of the community for service oriented businesses and he opposed the introduction of a pool hall into the environment. into which they had so carefully developed and nourished . He said they did not have to look any further than Palm Canyon Drive in Palm Springs , which was known 20 years ago as a retail shopping street. Around 10 years ago a number of hot dog stands and T-shirt shops began to open on Palm Canyon and the entire image of the street changed. Today there were more vacant stores than rented ones and a number of stores had been empty for years . As Palm Springs learned, the time to correct a problem was before it exists . He did not want this to happen to Palm Desert . A pool hall by any other name catered to 32 TMd MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 the young who would create a disharmony with the environment with trash, bottles and drinking. There was a school immediately behind the property on Alessandro and the use of alcoholic beverages would create a bad environment for the young children at the school since the only planned access for the parking lot was from the frontage road, where there was already a poor traffic pattern and it would further deteriorate due to the large number of vehicles that would be parked on the frontage road and in the parking lot . He felt Palm Desert did not need this type of environment and Maple Leaf Plumbing was firmly opposed to the granting of a conditional use permit . MR. CHAD DORN, owner of Ace Hardware, said the proposal would be two doors down from him. He stated that he was opposed to the parking. When Ruth ' s Chris Steakhouse there was a parking problem. They have valet parking with the complete parking lot closed off so they tell people to park at Ace Hardware. fie explained that Ace Hardware has two parking lots at 120 feet that they bought and established as part of the building program. He was afraid that if they got any kind of billiard place they would park in his lot and he did not want to Now place a chain across there . He had a bad enough time keeping people out of there with the Ruth ' s Chris Steakhouse and the people next door that rent there and people were abusive when told they couldn ' t park there. He said that he knew the kind of people that shoot pool because he had been to Calgary twice recently and stayed at a motel next door to a pool hall and they had nothing but neon signs in there and the smoke could be cut with a knife. That parking lot was big and they completely filled it on the weekends . He said there was an access to Alessandro that went around the Reflections Building, but everyone used his driveway because it was wider. He stated that he did not want to see an accident there. MS . DOROTHY HAMILTON, one of the principle owners of Maple Leaf Plumbing, stated that she thoroughly opposed the billiard room because that part of Palm Desert should be left as service oriented businesses and objected to the fact that the current business was checked for parking at 4 : 00 p.m. in the afternoon when they were open later than that . She felt it should have been checked at closing time. low 33 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 MRS . KATHLEEN KOPP stated that she had a residence in the area on Cabrillo. She said that she must be within 301 feet because she wasn ' t going to get a notice from the city until she called. She indicated that Portola was a main artery and for kids coming up that street when school was out : there was the high school , junior high and grade school and everyone used Portola . She felt that if this place was open at noon, those kids could just pop in there and waste some of their time and money at this smoke filled billiard place. She said that she knew it was smoke filled because she and her husband visited the location on Painters Path . She could not imagine families playing in a place like this and could not picture this being family recreation. She asked if it was family recreation, why were they open so late and answered that applicant said it was because 99% of their business was from 9 : 00 p.m. to 2 : 00 a .m. If 990 of the business was from 9 : 00 p.m. to 2 : 00 a .m. , why were they opening up at noon. She felt customers would be using everyone ' s parking lot and would create a bad image for the City of Palm Desert . She said it would also effect the image of Highway 111 and everyone in the immediate area : other businesses , the school and residents . rr/ MS . JEAN GRETCH, a retired teacher, said that she taught at Washington School for about 15 years and she lived around the corner on Cabrillo. She indicated that the preschool was next to her and they had a parking lot behind them which when they got their permit, they had to fill in and the lot went up hill so that the back end of the parking lot was as high as her garage roof . She said it was like a big hole that dropped down into her yard. She said it wasn ' t like that originally, it was level with her property. She also expressed concern that the people would be coming out late at night and there was no reason they could not park there . It wasn ' t chained or locked up and even though the back end was not open, there was a vacant lot they could walk around. She felt they would hang around and smoke and have a drink or two and would throw their cigarettes into her yard and she was afraid that would start a fire. She did not feel they should be there that late at night . She asked about the sidewalk and where it would go. She said that if it was on Alessandro, that would encourage people to walk in the back way. 34 low MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 u.. Mr. Folkers explained that it was the city ' s ultimate plan to have sidewalks on all the streets in commercial areas . At the present time Alessandro did not have them. This was getting sidewalk in so that it would run from Cabrillo to Portola . He noted that access would be limited so that people would not use that sidewalk, but it would be installed as property developed for future use. Ms . Gretch felt that with the vacant lot and when everything was built, they would park where ever they could find a place and would walk through that vacant lot to get into the facility . She also did not think they should have liquor sales that close to a school . She said that she was also opposed to the hours until 2 : 00 a .m. She asked how many families stayed up that late at night . Ms . Gretch stated that there were a lot of drag racers now that went down Alessandro and turn the corners and was afraid that this would be more prevalent if the billiard facility was allowed. Chairman Spiegel asked if the applicant wished to give a rebuttal . MR. CHARLIE KIRKPATRICK stated that regarding parking, the plan Mr. Smith drew up had a six foot wall so that would limit access to Alessandro . fie said there would not be any access from Alessandro directly to his property. That walk would be roughly two blocks away. He felt that limited access was a good idea and did not have a problem with that . As far as parking in the school lot, he did not feel that would be a problem and asked why someone would park in a school lot if they could park in his lot or in front of his business . He said that 99% of their business may or may not be from 9 : 00 p.m. until 2 : 00 a .m. Some days they do a little better business during the day, but their day business wasn ' t the strongest , but was needed. They operated from 12 : 00 p.m. until 2 : 00 a .m. and they had never had a problem and had been in operation for five years . They had never been cited by ABC or the police department. Some of the surrounding properties have these problems, but they always monitored what happened in the pool room. Mr. Richard Kirkpatrick said they had tournaments running from 8 : 00 p.m. until 11 : 30 p.m. at night and that was a lot of their revenue. Mr . Charlie Kirkpatrick said that he had a hard time seeing a bad element and suggested that commission read the letters he brought in. He said they hosted parties for Ebel 35 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 Watch Corporation, Stouffers Esmeralda , Ritz Carlton, rl Marriott and they just got a call from Marriott Las Palmas to rent the room out for their employees . He said it was hard to dispute everyone ' s concerns . He did not feel a billiard room in Palm Desert would be a bad element or bad nature. They offered a place for people to enjoy themselves, to meet other people, and some people liked to stay until 2 : 00 a .m. He wanted to have that option. In operating a flawless business he did not feel they should be restricted . He hoped commission would reconsider the restriction . tie encouraged people to come and see his business and felt it spoke for itself . MR. RICHARD KIRKPATRICK said that the manner in which they ran their business was rigid and they watched the alcohol consumption, cups , and people going to the restrooms , and if someone went out into the parking lot, they also monitored that. People were asked to come in or to leave. They were not shy about asking someone to leave because they had a good business that was strict and everyone knew him to be quite rough if they stepped out of line. If things got out of line, they were the first ones to step in front and those people were asked to stop or leave and everything was handled in a non- violent manner, although there was not a lot of violence. He stated that he had been a businessman for 35 years and had never had an unsuccessful business and had always had a busy business . He said he was also a property owner in Palm Desert and had moved here in 1988 when he and his son opened this business . He stated that he was as interested in this neighborhood and community as anyone present. He might not be as wealthy, but was as interested and would go out of his way for young people, the older people, or the aged and retired people. tie hoped the commission would consider the request about closing early because it was very pertinent to his business . MRS . KIRKPATRICK stated that it seemed to be confusing to the people that asked what families stayed late. She said that in the daytime they had a few construction workers that came by. After the school hours they might have some children or teenagers that came by on their own. Like the group before them, they were like a Cheer' s and got to know their patrons ' names and found out more about them and had helped them. She said that they had sent many of them back to their parents when 36 "'� MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15, 1993 they were living on the street because they could come in and confide in them. When they went to the mall to hang out, they only got in trouble, but they had come to them and called them Mom and Dad and they had seen a lot of them come and go, but she felt they had done a little better for them than if they weren ' t there at all . In the evening, the workers from the restaurants and hotels came over when they got off work which was around 10 : 30 p.m. or 11 : 00 p.m. and they were the ones that were usually there until 2 : 00 a .m. She stated that they had never advertised their business or advertised for the spring breakers to come to their place. She said they monitored everything those kids did and kept paper cups for the young people and glass containers for the older ones and because there was only one square room, they could see what everyone was drinking and doing and if they did not like what the people were doing, they were asked to leave. At 10 : 00 p.m. they imposed a curfew for people under 18 years old. That was the kind of atmosphere they had there and while people smoked, smoke arresters could be put in, but generally the people who could not stand the smoke did not come in . She felt that was a minor thing and part of the ambience . She said she hoped that presented a clearer picture of her low people . Chairman Spiegel closed the public testimony and asked for commission comments . Commissioner Jonathan stated that for him this was a tough decision because he was persuaded that the Kirkpatrick' s had a good business and felt they were careful about following the rules and doing the right thing . Unlike some of the earlier projects , though, he felt they were up against some unsolvable problems . He said they were unalterably located in their proposal next to a school and he was concerned about that. Residents expressed concern and opposition, surrounding businesses expressed concern and opposition, and while that might be solvable, they also had a letter full of signatures from parents of children in the school and he felt that no matter what the commission did, they could not change that . Because of that concern, he was not in favor of the project in the proposed location. He said he had mixed feelings because the business in and of itself was good and he appreciated what they were trying to do and had done for the last few years, but did not see that the problems he was concerned about were solvable. He stated that he would not be in favor of approval . 37 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15, 1993 Commissioner Cox stated that she was impressed with the 400 applicant ' s present track record and as indicated earlier, locations were needed for alternative sports other than golf and tennis in the valley, and apparently according to the brochure and from the testimony they had an impeccable record and she applauded that . She said that she did have two major problems : one was the traffic on the frontage road, she felt it was an accident waiting to happen and any additional strain put on the access road onto Portola added to it and she was not comfortable with staff ' s recommendation that it could be handled properly. Her other concern was the fact that everyone around the proposed location was a service oriented business , not an entertainment business . Those were the two problems she had. She said she would like to see them in Palm Desert in a second location and felt that anyone that could be that successful to open another operation she was behind 100% , but felt this location had unsolvable problems with traffic, the school , and the people in the area . She said that she was very familiar with the Ace Hardware parking lot and knew that people would park where ever they wanted to park . She did not feel those concerns had been mitigated . Commissioner Whitlock concurred. She said she would like the Kirkpatrick ' s to find another location so that the problems .� could be mitigated. Her main concern was that the neighbors on either side, Wacky Wicker and Maple Leaf Plumbing, had been here a long time and their reasons for being opposed. She felt that everyone would get behind them to find another location because they obviously ran a good place at their other location and wanted to see them have another one, but this was not the right location. Commissioner Beaty felt everything had been said. He said it was a major concern when everyone around the applicant was opposed. Chairman Spiegel stated that he could vouch for the fact that the parking lot at Hot Pockets was watched closely because was asked by Mr. Kirkpatrick if he was going to play billiards and when he answered no, he was asked to move his car. He explained that he was on the planning commission and that was okay and he went inside. He said that he shopped at Ace Hardware all the time and had furniture in his den from Wacky Wicker, and Maple Leaf Plumbing had been at his house that morning, so he used those businesses . He felt that the zoning for the area had to be looked at; it was zoned C- 1 commercial . That included Ace Hardware, Maple Leaf Plumbing, 38 `� MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 Wacky Wicker, but it also included entertainment kinds of uses like Ruth ' s Chris . He felt a billiard parlor today was not like the ones he knew when he grew up in St . Louis, which was the kind of place to go to when skipping school . He felt it was a family oriented business and knew that they had competitions once a week and was the kind of thing that was said earlier, if people could not afford to play golf they would play softball; if someone could not afford to play golf, they might play billiards . They didn ' t serve hard liquor and served sandwiches and beer. He felt it was really more for the family. He was not worried that it would be a gang hangout and Lt. Janes said that Palm Desert didn ' t have gangs . Mr. Kirkpatrick went on record saying he would watch his parking lot and the parking lot had enough room to adequately take care of all of the people that would be visiting the pool room as shown when staff looked at the existing Hot Pockets and at, the busiest time there were only eight cars and with 25 spaces being made available did not think it would impose on Wacky Wickes- or Ace Hardware. He also felt that the suggestion by Commissioner Jonathan that the entrance be from the back to guarantee the parking lot would be advantageous . He felt it would be a plus for the City of Palm Desert . Mr . Diaz stated that based on the comments given the motion would be to instruct staff to prepare a resolution of denial for adoption at the next meeting . Mr. Smith asked for findings on that resolution. Mr. Diaz indicated they would be incompatibility with existing commercial uses in the area, close proximity of the school , traffic, and hours of operation. Action : Moved by Commissioner Whitlock, seconded by Commissioner Cox, instructing staff by minute motion to prepare a resolution of denial for adoption at the next meeting. Carried 4- 1 (Chairman Spiegel voted no) . VIII . MISCELLANEOUS None. IX. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS None. s 39 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 15 , 1993 X. COMMENTS r1 Commissioner Jonathan thanked staff for having the sheriff present to talk about the graffiti ordinance and gangs . XI . ADJOURNMENT Moved by Commissioner Whitlock, seconded by Commissioner Beaty, adjourning the meeting by minute motion. The m ing was adjourned at 9 : 53 p.m. 1440tow4 - • RAMON A. DIAZ , Efec ary ATTEST: ROBERT A. �P 6im an /tm MW 40 wo