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HomeMy WebLinkAbout0817 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING TUESDAY - AUGUST 17, 1993 7 :00 P.M. - CIVIC CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBER 73-510 FRED WARING DRIVE I . CALL TO ORDER Chairman Spiegel called the meeting to order at 7 : 00 p.m. II . PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Commissioner Whitlock led in the pledge of allegiance. III . ROLL CALL Members Present: Bob Spiegel, Chairman Paul Beaty Diane Cox Sabby Jonathan Carol Whitlock Members Absent: None Staff Present: Ray Diaz Eric Johnson Bob Hargreaves Joe Gaugush Jeff Winklepleck Tonya Monroe „ IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Consideration of the August 3, 1993 meeting minutes . Action: Moved by Commissioner Cox, seconded by Commissioner Jonathan, approving the August 3, 1993 minutes as submitted by minute motion. Carried 4-0-1 (Commissioner Whitlock abstained) . V. SUMMARY OF COUNCIL ACTION: Mr. Diaz summarized pertinent August 9, 1993 special meeting actions . VI . CONSENT CALENDAR None. VII . PUBLIC HEARINGS A. Case No. CUP 09-78 Amendment #2 - RESTAURANTS UNLIMITED, INC. , Applicant Request for approval of an amendment to vow an existing conditional use permit to allow an expansion (patio seating for 56 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 persons) to the former Robert Cunard's Restaurant located at 73-101 Highway ill . Mr. Diaz stated that the notice of public hearing advertised this request as an expansion, but overall there was a net reduction in the number of seats . He explained there was a trade-off for exterior seating from interior seating and recommended approval . Chairman Spiegel noted that part of the request was for a waiver of the sign height to 20 feet. Mr. Winklepleck indicated that the matter had been before the architectural commission and they recommended approval to planning commission. Mr. Diaz stated that since the architectural commission concurred with the waiver, staff was recommending approval . Commissioner Whitlock asked for clarification on how the outdoor dining area was being incorporated and the location. Mr. Diaz indicated that the applicant could address that issue. Commissioner Cox asked if the restaurant would be open for lunch and dinner; Mr. Diaz indicated the applicant would address that issue also. Commissioner Cox noted that on the second page of the staff report it said that because it was summer and the restaurant was not operating, it was not reasonable to conduct a parking survey; she stated that her experience when going down El Paseo during noon time, with the addition of California Pizza Kitchen, was very busy and she wondered how staff could say the numbers would be dubious and asked if a worse situation would be created. She noted there was some talk about looking at a vacant lot and asked for clarification. Mr. Diaz felt that part of that area had been planned poorly; there was a public street in the front and he felt there was no reason for that street to be there; he suggested a street vacation and restaurant/ commercial parking be placed on that vacant lot. Also, the vacant lot facing Highway 74 abutted the street in back of the shell station; he felt that lot should be acquired by some agency and turned into parking. Application for street vacation would have to be made by the area property owners, which would eliminate any circulation problem and increase parking availability. Commissioner Jonathan noted there would be no frontage if that street was vacated. Mr. Diaz indicated that if that was just a driveway and not a street, it would not make a difference because it would be the same people using it, but 2 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 it would have parking and would be taxable property. He felt the applicant/owner should apply for that vacation. He did not believe this applicant would have a problem with parking; one problem with this location in the past was that there had been too much parking because there was not enough business . He felt that something should be done with the street, and the vacant lot was unsightly. He did not believe this applicant should be penalized for that and the request could be approved without the street vacation and without the use of the vacant lot. Chairman Spiegel felt everyone was in agreement that this was an unsightly lot that should not be there and asked what the city could do; Mr. Diaz indicated that staff should be directed to come back to the commission at the September 21 meeting with a solution to eliminating the vacant lot and putting it to good use and how to accomplish it, and that recommendation could be carried forth to council . Commissioner Cox asked if it was staff ' s recommendation to approve the restaurant without the additional parking and if staff felt parking was a problem right now; Mr. Diaz stated that he did not see a parking problem and recommended approval . Chairman Spiegel directed the planning department to come up with a recommendation for the second meeting in September for that vacant lot. Commissioner Jonathan noted there was a seating count of 286 right now that would be reduced to 235 seats; he said the former private dining room was not included in the total 235 seats--he asked what happened to the private dining area. Mr. Diaz stated that it was going to be for private parties that were not normally counted. He indicated that if there was a problem, those seats would be counted and staff could place a condition that the seats in the private dining room when added to the request would not exceed the total of 286 seats . That would give the applicant 51 maximum seats in the private dining area. Chairman Spiegel noted that if they had 286 seats without the patio, and the patio allowed 56 seats, that was quite a difference. Mr. Diaz said that a condition could be added that the private dining would have a maximum of 51 seats . Commissioner Jonathan asked if there was an existing agreement or conditional use permit for valet parking; he asked if the existing condition would carry on to the present Wav 3 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 applicant or stay with the former tenant. Mr. Diaz stated that the condition stayed with the land, but the commission could place a condition that the applicant should reapply for valet parking. Commissioner Jonathan noted that the report said that Robert Cunard was the applicant for valet parking and was approved through the city' s technical traffic committee. Mr. Diaz stated that the applicant could be required to recertify his application through that committee. Chairman Spiegel opened the public hearing and asked the applicant to address the commission. MR. PETER SHRADER, project architect for the Palomino Restaurant, 1904 Third Avenue in Seattle, Washington, Suite 1005, 98101, stated that he agreed with the substance of Mr. Diaz ' s outline of the staff report. He said that the restaurant would be open for lunch and dinner seven days per week. He stated that there was a 20% approximate reduced seating count from the previous seating count and stated that it was attributed to the introduction of an exhibition cooking area in the restaurant that would take up an area that was previously seating, as well as including two roasting ovens and a more spacious dining area. He said there would also be extra room between diners . He said that they wanted to suspend judgement right now regarding valet parking. He explained that Restaurants Unlimited had 23 restaurants going in other places and it was a "mixed bag" on how successful the valet parking had been and they wanted to assess the need for valet parking after the restaurant opened. Mr. Diaz asked if Mr. Shrader would concur with a condition that if they wanted valet parking in the future, that they would go through the technical traffic committee for approval . Mr. Shrader said they would go through whatever was necessary. He indicated that if parking became a problem in the neighborhood, he hoped all the restaurants would be willing to participate in the vacation of the cul-de-sac or some other creative way to solve the problem. He felt that with the 20% reduction from the Cunard' s seating in conjunction with California Pizza Kitchen, that parking shouldn' t be a problem. Chairman Spiegel asked if all 23 restaurants were the same type of restaurant; Mr. Shrader replied substantially they were a modified italian presentation that would be a Mediterranean type cuisine with a "mixed bag of nouveau 4 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 cuisine" in the other restaurants, which were located mainly in downtown areas . He noted there was also a Palomino Restaurant going into San Francisco right now. Commissioner Whitlock asked about the location of the outdoor dining; Mr. Shrader stated that it looked like a modified E and half would go into the little square to the left of the main entry door; he noted there was an existing berm on the right of the entry that would be flattened out and replaced with a new landscaping design as approved by architectural commission. Mr. Shrader said the other dining would be below the lounge area. Commissioner Jonathan asked about the private dining situation and if the 235 seats included the former private dining area. Mr. Shrader said no, they just put on their plan that the private dining area would not be used and it was exclusive of the 235 and was not being developed. He stated that right now it would not be used. Commissioner Jonathan explained that 235 seats would be the total permitted and Mr. Shrader would have to come back for another conditional use permit to add seating in that section. He asked if that was consistent with Mr. Shrader' s and his client' s expectations . Mr. Shrader stated that the 235 seat r" limit was already part of the conditions of approval and felt it would be reasonable that if they took 35 seats out of the lounge and put them in that area they would not be violating the conditional use. Chairman Spiegel asked if anyone wished to speak in FAVOR or OPPOSITION to the project. There was no one and the public testimony was closed. Action: Moved by Commissioner Whitlock, seconded by Commissioner Cox, approving the findings as submitted by staff. Commissioner Jonathan spoke to the motion and asked if the valet parking would only be permitted pursuant to an application. Mr. Diaz concurred and indicated that it would be added as a condition because the applicant indicated that he didn't want the valet parking right now. Commissioner Jonathan said that the reason he mentioned this was because when the previous restaurant was in use, on occasion the valet parking was on the street which was the area of highest demand and he felt that caused a problem, so he would want the valet parking to utilize the parking lot spaces on the 5 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 site. Mr. Diaz concurred and felt that vacating the street would also solve that problem. Chairman Spiegel called for a vote. Motion carried 5-0 . Moved by Commissioner Whitlock, seconded by Commissioner Cox, adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 1628, approving CUP 09-78 Amendment #2, subject to conditions as amended. Carried 5-0. Moved by Commissioner Whitlock, seconded by Commissioner Jonathan, granting a waiver by minute motion to the sign height limit. Carried 5-0 . B. Case No. CUP 93-8 - JENNIFER HUMPHREY, Applicant Request for approval of a conditional use permit to operate a maximum 28 seat tea room in conjunction with a gift shop in the E1 Paseo Village, 45-120 San Pablo Avenue, Suites 33 C and D. Mr. Winklepleck explained that the applicant was proposing an 1125 square foot tea room with a maximum of 28 seats in Iwo conjunction with an 804 square foot gift shop. The gift shop was not part of the conditional use permit since no seating would be in the gift shop area and the tea room was divided into two areas: one area of approximately 650 square feet would operate as an extension of the gift shop with coffee and tea service during the operating hours . The other area at approximately 475 square feet would be open only during the reserved one hour tea times which were 10 : 30 a.m. and 2 : 00 p.m. , with a maximum seating capacity of 16 . He felt this use would be compatible and did not foresee parking as a problem. He indicated that with this use it would bring the percentage up to 17 . 7% for restaurant uses in the center. Staff recommended approval . Chairman Spiegel opened the public testimony and asked the applicant to address the commission. MS. JENNIFER HUMPHREY of Desert Hot Springs and MS. SANDY YOUNGREN of Indio addressed the commission. They said they were present to answer any questions . Commissioner Whitlock asked how soon they would open. Ms. Humphrey replied October 1 . Chairman Spiegel asked if they 6 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 low had purchased the merchandise for the store. Ms . Humphrey replied yes . Commissioner Beaty asked why there was a restriction on the hours . Ms . Youngren replied that they had requested that because they would have seating for eight to ten people in the front portion of the tea room, but would only have a reserved tea time two times a day. She said that tea was served in the mid morning and mid afternoon. Commissioner Whitlock felt this would be a good use for E1 Paseo. Chairman Spiegel asked if anyone wished to address the commission in FAVOR or OPPOSITION to the project. There was no one and the public testimony was closed. Commissioner Jonathan noted that Commissioner Beaty had made a good point about the hours and asked the applicants if they wished to limit themselves to only 10 : 30 a.m. and 2 : 00 p.m. hours . He noted that if there was a change, they would have to come back with another conditional use permit. He said he would not have a problem with eliminating the limit on the number of hours . Ms . Humphrey said that would be great because they would `r like to have the option of renting the space to private parties for times that were not during their two tea times . Commissioner Jonathan recommended removal of the condition. Commission concurred. Action: Moved by Commissioner Beaty, seconded by Commissioner Whitlock, approving the findings as submitted by staff . Carried 5-0. Moved by Commissioner Whitlock, seconded by Commissioner Beaty, adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 1629 , approving CUP 93-8, subject to conditions as amended. Carried 5-0 . VIII . MISCELLANEOUS A. Review and Discussion of City's Master Parking Lot Tree Plan Mr. Eric Johnson of public works explained that he was a landscape consultant for the city. He noted that the #0W 7 i j MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 j in the book he photographs put together that had been distributed to the commission were taken mostly of trees located in the civic center park. He explained that a number of years ago the city provided plant material in the park they hoped would have future potential for shade tree exhibition of different types of trees that could also be used throughout the city. He felt that some had done quite well and indicated that many of the trees were not used in the valley before and were new to the area. He said he had a lot of experience with them in Las Vegas, Reno, Laughlin, Phoenix and in the Coachella Valley throughout the years and felt comfortable with bringing them into the valley to see what they would do. He felt the result was a good example of different types of trees . In the booklet, he arranged the information for easy review and pointed out that there were both evergreen and deciduous trees in the different varieties . He felt there was a place for both of them here. He said the Coachella Valley was not known for growing deciduous trees because everyone wanted green trees year round and he felt that was not necessarily the ideal because some of the deciduous trees provided more shade. He indicated that the city needed to look at a little more variety as part of the total picture. Chairman Spiegel complimented Mr. Johnson on the book; he felt it was very well done and gave the commission a quick idea of Mr. Johnson' s recommendations for desert landscaping. Mr. Johnson indicated that the parking ordinance should be updated. Commissioner Jonathan also commended Mr. Johnson on the booklet--he had requested a review of the ordinance because he was concerned that some of the trees that were on the approved list were not providing as much shade as could otherwise be done. He was strongly in favor of the shading ordinance and felt it was necessary for the community and wanted to see the best use of that ordinance be used to provide the best trees for the most shade. The trees that he felt were causing concerns were the Jerusalem Thorn, the Olive, and the Sweet Acacia. Commissioner Jonathan asked if Mr. Johnson had looked at those and if he felt they were appropriate; particularly the Jerusalem Thorn, which looked a lot more like a bush than a tree and he had not seen one that was effective for shading purposes . Mr. Johnson noted that in the facts on the information sheets in the book, some trees were not the ideal or the best. They had observed Jerusalem Thorns in Phoenix on some parking lots and they had been trained quite well to create a lot of Woo 8 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 "" shade, but were also a problem because of the amount of leaf drop. He said that benefits were that they grew very rapidly, were very tough in taking all kinds of conditions, and under some soil conditions were an answer to several problems that could develop. He felt it was probably not the ideal and would not have it at the top of the list, and could be eliminated from the list. He indicated that today there was a fruitless olive tree available which eliminated a big problem. If it was trained correctly and located in the right kind of situation with a single trunk it could be a valid tree, although it was slow growing. He felt that was one negative that might not place it on the top of the list. He said it was also very durable. He indicated that they had been using Acacia in a number of areas where they had a fairly narrow width and in medians in the city because it did not grow too large and was easily trained. It also grew naturally as a multi-trunked plant, was planted along Highway 111 in the center median and was doing a good job, but they would have to do more work to train it to lift the heads up. He said it would form a structure that was conducive to highway use. He indicated that the ones planted on Fred Waring Drive were of the old species which was not a good tree and did not have the same ability to form a canopy as the smallii . He felt it was ideal in rather small areas and .�.. grew fast if trained right. It also bloomed in the spring and winter months so it was colorful as well as very tough. He said that the native plants were very tough and did well in this area. Commissioner Jonathan asked if Mr. Johnson felt the Sweet Acacia was an appropriate shading tree; Mr. Johnson replied yes, in certain types of areas . He said it could be used around the perimeter of the parking lot in very narrow planting areas and would not grow too large for the area for the root system or top growth. He indicated in was the same situation with the Washingtonia Filifera palm trees that would not normally be thought of as a parking lot tree, but there might be places like at the end of a median where they might want to have accents and the palms provided a lot of shade because of their broad canopy. He felt there was a place for them and noted that Frank Urrutia used them in his parking lot. Commissioner Whitlock noted that they might do an excellent job for shade, but they were a very messy tree because of the pods . Mr. Johnson said that was something else that had to be considered when choosing a tree. Chairman Spiegel noted that some needed trimming and if that was not done by the low 9 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 owners, a problem was created. Mr. Johnson said that there "o were many issues that had to be considered when talking about trees based on the soil conditions, weather, pruning maintenance, and water demand. He felt the trees had to be studied very carefully before going into a parking lot. Mr. Johnson indicated that he had been looking at Fred Waring Plaza where they provided all native trees in the parking lot--palo verde trees and mesquite trees . At Town Center Way it was all mesquites and he felt it was slightly over done and would cause problems later because they would not be able to keep up with the pruning. He said that when looking at the strand of mesquites on the back side of the sheriff ' s station, those were planted two and a half years ago and they had grown so fast that staff could not keep up and got into trouble because the mesquites got too top heavy. He stated that new stakes had to be put in and the mesquites had to be re-pruned to get them back into the shape they needed to be in for future growth. He said that if that procedure was not watched during that time, there would be a problem with the trees later on because they would get tremendous in height, spread and canopy. Chairman Spiegel indicated that the master parking lot tree plan for Palm Desert was excellent, but there were a lot of parking lots in the city that were installed before the master plan was adopted. He noted that the city could not go back and say to existing parking lot owners that the city needed one tree per every three spaces, which was now the requirement. He asked if the city could go back and say what specific trees they could use; he also asked if the minimum size should be 24" box and if the city could go back to people like the Town Center, where they were growing things like oleander trees, which did not provide much shade for anyone and was a location that received a lot of traffic in the parking lot. He asked if those businesses could be given certain restrictions on what trees could be used. Mr. Diaz said that the city could work out a program whereby there would be an encouragement or some kind of incentive and would bring it back to the commission. He indicated that the city could not tell owners of existing parking lots that they had to do this, but could write up a program where there would be some encouragement and if they would do this, the city would do something else, perhaps through some financial incentives . He said that one concern was Mr. Johnson' s statement that there were trees that the city itself required of private developers on parking lots that the city planted in the civic center complex and the city itself could not control them and had to re-trim and redo them, yet the city "stomped all over" 10 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 the private sector when they could not do it. He felt that staff should go back and look at these trees and the booklet and he wanted to have some direction to have the graphic artist draw some layouts (working with Eric Johnson) showing where certain trees ought to be and outlining those problems . He said that it concerned him when the city required the private sector to do certain things that the city could not do. If the city could not do it, it was wrong to require the private sector to do it. He said he wanted to come back to the first meeting in October with a complete layout of a program on how to get from the existing parking lot conditions to what the city wants . He would look at the existing ordinance and where the city itself had problems in terms of certain plant materials and update and eventually print up a finalized booklet. He felt the booklet was very informative and he would some drawings showing where each tree could go. That would benefit everyone and staff could come back to the commission at the first meeting in October and no later than the second meeting in October, with a complete package. Commissioner Cox noted that in President' s Plaza East, after the bad freeze a couple of years ago when many trees were lost, and when the parking lot was re-striped they took out trees to make additional parking. At the end of each row there was a little median with rocks in it and nice trees . She indicated that most of those trees were gone now and asked if the city had some responsibility or a master plan to come back and replant some of those mesquite trees to give them something besides bare rock in those parking lots . Mr. Diaz stated that the redevelopment agency might and he would look into that issue and come back with an answer. He said he would have an answer for that at the next meeting. If the trees died, they should be replaced. The city required private developments like Toys R Us to do this and the city had the obligation to set the example. If it was a matter of money and the proper system was not set up to collect that money, in his opinion the city should still make it right and staff would look into that. Chairman Spiegel asked how it could be made right; Mr. Diaz said a motion should be made to instruct staff to look at the current program, the trees, and the booklet, as well as the specific problem of President' s Plaza East and come back with reports on the time line suggested. Commissioner Whitlock noted that most of the report was already done and complimented Mr. Johnson on the book. She felt the comments were well thought out; the only ingredient tow 11 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 she saw missing was a place where the trees would be appropriate. She noted that Mr. Johnson had informed the commission that the Acacia with the small root growth would be good in entry islands and that type of information was the only thing missing, which would tell the developer what plant would be best planted in certain areas . She concurred with comments by Mr. Johnson that the Jerusalem Thorn was not necessarily appropriate to provide parking lot shade because it did require so much care in shaping and since she was in property management, she knew how difficult it was to have gardeners understand the need for the shaping and the amount of care required as well as owners not wanting to spend the money needed to do something like that on a monthly basis . She said that was one item that should be considered before making a tree a required tree. She indicated that she had good luck with the fruitless Olive tree for shade around pool areas and felt that was a good tree that did not require the amount of care that the Jerusalem Thorn did--it also did not need the training and provided a nice canopy and great shade. Mr. Johnson concurred with Commissioner Whitlock' s comments in looking at the total picture and some standards could be set up for a total program. He felt it should be taken step by step and area by area and President' s Plaza was number one on his list, as well as the Town Center and a number of others including the city' s own parking areas that needed improving upon. He said that whatever could be worked out to set up this program would be helpful for the total picture of Palm Desert. He indicated that the city would still be building more shopping centers and parking lots and the old parking lots needed to be brought up to date. Commissioner Jonathan asked what the mechanism was to go about revising the ordinance and if it would be a recommendation to council . Mr. Diaz replied that this would be done through the community development department and whatever steps were necessary would be taken. Commissioner Whitlock asked if there was any way to address the lots grandfathered in; Mr. Diaz replied that there was, but it would probably have to be done through some type of financial inducement. If what the city had been saying was true and shaded parking lots were good for business, then it was just a matter of going to the owners and saying it could be done and specifying what the city would be willing to contribute to it, perhaps through a no interest or low interest loan and that would be in line with what the EDAC subcommittee members came forward with. In talking to Carlos Ortega, he said it could be done; it was just a matter of someone sitting down 12 .W MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 and doing it, which was different than where the city was a few years ago and staff would sit down with Mr. Ortega and come up with a plan. It could be done, but not forcibly. He felt if there was enough inducement it could be done and ultimately they would get to their goal . Commissioner Cox also thanked Mr. Johnson for the book and the information he provided. Chairman Spiegel noted that Mr. Diaz recommended a motion Action: Moved by Commissioner Whitlock, seconded by Commissioner Cox, by minute motion instructed staff to report back at the next meeting with the status/improvement program for President' s Plaza East and to report back on October 5 with plant material revisions and drawings of where each tree could be planted, as well as a complete layout and incentive program for existing parking lots . Carried 5-0 . Commissioner Jonathan noted that the present ordinance referred to the master parking lot tree plan as far as acceptable trees . Mr. Diaz said that if staff had to amend the ordinance that would be done. It was not in the zoning ordinance, so it wasn't that cumbersome of a procedure, but the report that they would receive, if it required ordinance amendment, the commission would have the existing ordinance and the proposed ordinance before them as a complete package. Commissioner Jonathan pointed out in the memo from Mr. Johnson that some of the trees that commission wanted deleted and some added were not included and he would give Mr. Diaz his copy after the meeting. B. Request for Determination of Use for a Skilled Nursing Facility in the PC (4) Zone. Mr. Diaz explained that after the Mervyn' s center was developed, there was a piece of PC(4 ) property that was not part of that development. That was the property in back of Circuit City on Park View. He said that the applicant was requesting a determination that a senior nursing and skilled care facility would be permitted as part of that use. He indicated that it could be determined that, 1) it was a matter of right, which staff would not recommended; 2) that it would be permitted subject to approval of a conditional use permit, which staff would recommend; or 3) amendment of the zoning ordinance specifically and to say that it would be .r 13 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 permitted in the PC(4) zone where it was adjacent to a �■D regional shopping center. Staff recommended that this use be allowed in the PC(4) zone subject to a conditional use permit. In terms of the PC(4) zoning available in the city, there was this property on Highway 111, a piece along Highway 74 that was the area being converted into parking lots for the E1 Paseo Collection, and the corner of Deep Canyon and Highway 111 . He did not believe the city would want any of the other uses allowed in the PC(4 ) zone on this property because of access, or rezone it because the other zones like institutional could allow uses that the city would not want, as opposed to a senior nursing and skilled care facility. He said that looking at the skilled care/nursing facility on Monterey has had very few problems or complaints and it would be a single story facility. Commissioner Jonathan asked what zoning that use was under; Mr. Diaz replied that it was PR-7 or PR-10; there was an old date grove there previously. Mr. Diaz said that the conditional use permit would give them the ability that it would not be a matter of right, but they would have to show how it would fit into the area and specific conditions of approval could be placed on it to make sure it was compatible with the existing area in terms of access and height and staff would propose single story because there was single family residential uses nearby. He recommended that the determination be that this use be permitted in the PC(4 ) zone subject to a conditional use permit. Chairman Spiegel asked if this was the location that was going to be a Jiffy Lube previously; Mr. Diaz said no, that back in 1980 it was going to be a motel and health club--that died and then it was going to be another configuration of hotel and shopping area. When Downey Savings took control of the property, it became Mervyn' s and this piece of property was left out. He felt this project could provide a buffer area for the residential property owners . Commissioner Cox asked for clarification that the only thing being requested was a determination that the commission felt that the PC(4 ) zone could include a skilled nursing care facility. Chairman Spiegel asked if that meant they would have a public hearing; Mr. Diaz replied yes and the applicant was present and knew that if there was a public hearing, they should talk to all the people in the area and work out their concerns and come back at that point. Mr. Diaz felt that was one of the simplest ways of getting a determination and staff made it very clear that in a conditional use permit, it was MW 14 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 how the area residents were impacted that determined the conditions--it was not a matter of right, all it meant was that they had a right to ask. Commissioner Jonathan said that he did not have a problem necessarily with a skilled care facility in this location because he had not reviewed one, but he did have some problem with skilled care being a permitted use under the PC(4 ) zone or subject to a conditional use process . He indicated that he reviewed the zoning ordinance and PC(4) was titled "resort center" and typical uses were hotels, restaurants, entertainment facilities and related commercial uses, including outdoor sales of arts, crafts, clothing, goods, wares and merchandise. He did not feel that came close to a skilled nursing facility and if this location was going to be considered, he was sure that there was some mechanism that could allow it if they applied for it, but to carte blanc make a determination as a planning commission that skilled care subject to a conditional use permit was an allowed use was questionable. Mr. Diaz stated that with a conditional use permit they would have to show that this particular PC(4) location fit in terms of what they wanted to build. Otherwise, they could not even ask. Commissioner Jonathan noted that the same thing could be said for adding that to "r any zoning--it is allowed under other zonings and wondered why the commission should give carte blanc to the other PC(4) zoned properties . Mr. Diaz indicated that right or wrong, churches were allowed in the R-1 zone subject to a conditional use permit, which was a lot more intensive use than this use in the PC(4 ) would be. In actuality, a specific zone could be created and the general plan amended to specifically designate this, but what ended up happening was that staff ended up "jumping through more hoops" and felt that was one of the problems statewide--that hoops were created just to get answers . It was fine to create hoops and the final answer was yes, but when hoops were created and the final answer was no, the conditional use permit process gave them the ability to say no and there were some uses mentioned like the outdoor sales and staff would not want to have a street fair at this location, which was allowed as a matter of right with a precise plan and which would be worse than the conditional use. He said that all this would do would let the person ask, ask quickly, and get an answer quickly. Commissioner Jonathan asked why they couldn't just come in with an application under PC(4 ) without the commission making a written determination of use; PC(4) just said "and related commercial uses" . He asked why they couldn't just come in Nam 15 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 with a conditional use for a skilled nursing facility under ri that provision. Mr. Diaz replied that it was because staff did not want people coming in under that saying that someone else didn't have to get a determination, so they had a right to ask for a drive-through donut shop or car wash. Related commercial uses was a cop-out staff would rather not use; if someone asked for it and commission did not like it, commission could say no, it shouldn't go in that location and it was over. All staff was saying was they would have a right to ask. Commissioner Jonathan noted that the other option for Mr. Cox was to request a change of zone. Mr. Diaz said that or specifically request a specific zone change for the planned commercial development district, but if the commission was going to deny the change of zone, he did not feel the person should be made to go through the whole process if the commission didn't feel this was an appropriate location. He felt they should just say no, that it would not be permitted even with a conditional use permit now. Chairman Spiegel noted that the city was going through a review of the general plan right now and proposing amendments and asked how this was related; Mr. Diaz replied that this particular property was designated PC(4) in the general plan. He noted that another problem with doing that under the general plan was that there was not a specific microscopic look at it; this way the person applied for the conditional use permit, the people here directly affected and interested in it would be notified and if the city didn't want it in the PC(4) zone no matter what, and those locations were described earlier, he doubted they would have it anywhere. Chairman Spiegel felt this property should be commercial . Commissioner Jonathan suggested changing the zone; his problem was that the general plan contained PC(4 ) in those three areas and to bring in a certain use that was not originally included under PC(4) was doing an end-around to the general plan. He was uncomfortable with that--he did not know anything about this particular proposed project which was not even proposed formally. If they wanted to come to the commission and ask them formally for a skilled nursing facility in that location, then they would find a way to allow it if the commission felt it was appropriate, but he had a problem in what he perceived was an end-around the general plan in adding a use around the existing zoning. Mr. Diaz said that if it was a matter of right he would agree, but they were not adding a use--they were telling them they could take a shot with a conditional use permit and with that went the fact that the testimony of the neighbors was very important as to whether or not a conditional use permit would 16 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 be granted. It just gave them an opportunity, but if the commission did not feel this should go any further, it should be stopped now. As an example, if the property was designated institutional, which would allow this particular use, there were other uses in that institutional zoning that the city probably would not want there that were allowed. Chairman Spiegel said that they could always vote against it. Mr. Diaz noted that under the institutional zone with all the uses that something would have to be allowed. With the PC(4) , they would be saying that these uses mentioned could be allowed, but at least they had that right to ask. Under the institutional zone with the uses that are in there, if the commission kept saying no, there would be a taking situation. Chairman Spiegel asked what would happen if the property was just zoned commercial . Mr. Diaz said that staff would not recommend that because then there would be access problems off Park View which would create a problem. With the Hacienda de Monterey development on Monterey Avenue in terms of its impact on the neighborhood, there was very little traffic and that was a two story development. Chairman Spiegel said he understood that and asked what the Hacienda de Monterey property had been zoned prior to development. Mr. Diaz indicated it was planned residential, probably PR-10. Commissioner Jonathan asked why the change low of zone couldn't be to PR. Mr. Diaz said that if they requested a change of zone to PR then they would also have to do a general plan amendment. He stated that the PC(4) zone was the only category that was a specific category in the general plan. Resort commercial was a specific land use designation as well as a specific zone. If commission felt uncomfortable with it staff would work it out and come back. Chairman Spiegel stated that they did not feel uncomfortable with recommending to the developer to go ahead with the request--that wasn't the problem. There was still going to be a public hearing and the adjacent property owners would give testimony and they did not have a problem with that. The problem was how to deal with PC(4) and staff did not want it zoned commercial because then anyone could do anything they wanted to; they could do that now and even sell fruit on the street. Just because it was zoned commercial did not mean that unacceptable uses would go in. Mr. Diaz indicated that the other approach that could be used was a development agreement. He said that a person had a right to apply for a development agreement and the development agreement would be site specific and then the commission would only be making the determination once. He suggested a two week continuance to look at the development NNW 17 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 agreement approach. He felt that would serve everyone. r11 Commissioner Jonathan reiterated that the commission had not voiced concerns about this particular project and the comments should not be seen as a negative by the applicant if he was present. Mr. Diaz stated that the applicant should also talk to the property owners on Joshua Road. Action: Moved by Commissioner Cox, seconded by Commissioner Whitlock, continuing this item to September 7, 1993 by minute motion. Carried 5-0 . IX. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS None. X. COMMENTS Chairman Spiegel asked about the status of the Civic Center Ballfields . Mr. Diaz indicated that bids were received and the low bid was $2 .3 million for phase III, which included the ballfields . Chairman Spiegel asked how much of the $2 . 3 million the ballfields were; Mr. Gaugush stated that there were approximately 14 bid schedules and any figure would be an estimate. Mr. Diaz indicated that all the bids were very close. Mr. Gaugush said that six proposals were received and the range was less than half a million between high and low on about $2 . 3 million and $2 . 85 million. Commissioner Jonathan asked how many were from locals and if the bid went to a local bidder. Mr. Gaugush said the apparent low bidder was a venture between Williams Development and a firm out of Newport Beach. They had eight or ten subcontractors listed and a good percentage were local . Chairman Spiegel asked if the city had put aside the $2 . 3 million for this . Mr. Diaz replied yes and indicated that the figure was $800,000 to $900, 000 below the professional outside expert' s estimate. Mr. Diaz indicated that on the bidding process outside, eight i groups wanted a longer time to bid from the Orange County and Los Angeles County area and the city said no and did not extend that time. He said that the local area was being emphasized. What would hold the project up was that the lighting differences still had to be worked out with the residents to the north. Chairman Spiegel asked why; Mr. Diaz replied that there had been other meetings and objections, but those would be worked out. Chairman Spiegel noted that 18 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION AUGUST 17, 1993 this had been taking a long time and the kids needed the fields . Commissioner Beaty asked about the proposed Odekirk sports center. Mr. Diaz stated that the project would be before the commission on September 7, 1993 . He said that staff had already heard from some of the area property owners . XI . ADJOURNMENT Moved by Chairman Spiegel, seconded by Commissioner Whitlock, adjourning the meeting by minute motion. Carrie 5-0 . The meeting was adjourned at 8 :22 p.m. RAMON A. DIAZ, Sec ary ATTEST: ROBERT A. SPIEG Palm Desert Plannincf Commission /tm 19