HomeMy WebLinkAbout1219 MINUTES
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING
TUESDAY - DECEMBER 19, 1995
7 :00 P.M. - CIVIC CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBER
73-510 FRED WARING DRIVE
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I . CALL TO ORDER
Vice Chairperson Ferguson called the meeting to order at 7 : 15
p.m. following a 6 : 30 study session.
II . PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Vice Chairperson Ferguson led in the pledge of allegiance.
III . ROLL CALL
Members Present: James Ferguson, Vice Chairperson
Sonia Campbell
George Fernandez
Sabby Jonathan
Members Absent: Paul Beaty
Staff Present: Phil Drell Mark Greenwood
Marshall Rudolph Tonya Monroe
Jeff Winklepleck
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
`r
Consideration of the November 21, 1995 meeting minutes .
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Fernandez, seconded by Commissioner
Jonathan, approving the November 21, 1995 meeting minutes as
submitted. Carried 3-0-1 (Vice Chairperson Ferguson
abstained) .
V. SUMMARY OF COUNCIL ACTION:
Mr. Drell summarized pertinent December 14 , 1995 city council
actions .
VI . ORAL COMMUNICATIONS - A
None.
VII . CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Case Nos . PMW 95-16 Through PMW 95-22 - MARRAKESH
MANAGEMENT CORPORATION, Applicant
Request for approval of parcel map
Naw waivers to keep the recently installed
sewer system within the homeowners
association area.
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 19, 1995
B. Case No. PMW 95-25 - ROBERT L. MAYER TRUST, Applicant
Request for approval of a parcel map
waiver to allow a lot line adjustment
between lots 18 and 32, moving the line
three feet to the north.
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner
Fernandez, approving the consent calendar by minute motion.
Carried 4-0 .
VIII . PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. Case Nos . C/Z 95-6 , TT 28295, and PP 95-10 - FOXX
DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, Applicant
Request for approval of a Negative
Declaration of Environmental Impact,
tentative tract map, precise plan and
change of zone from O. S. , N. (open
space, natural factors) to PR-5 (planned
residential five units per acre) to
allow construction of a 93 lot single
family subdivision on 19 . 4 acres at the �I
northeast corner of Deep Canyon Road and
Fred Waring Drive.
Mr. Winklepleck indicated that the project was proposing a 93
lot single family subdivision with two retention basins
totaling about 15,744 square feet. Access to the project
would consist of a main ingress/egress point off of Deep
Canyon with a secondary access off Moss Rose Road. The
majority of the lots were 5880 square feet in size with
larger lots occurring at corners and in cul-de-sacs . The
applicant was proposing a flexible lot line concept and
included an information booklet describing the philosophy and
implementation of the concept. The concept would allow the
developer to meet market demands without providing
unnecessary or unwanted options in the base home. If someone
didn't want a fireplace or a third garage, that was something
they wouldn't have to have. The developer would provide the
base unit on the lot which would allow the buyer to add
options . As the buyer added options, the width and size of
the lot would increase. The applicant projected that the
tract at buildout would contain approximately 80 lots . The
developer felt that the project would be phased with
approximately 10-12 units per phase, hoping to get presales
or reservations on 50% of the units in each phase and
building the remainder out as spec homes . Based on the lot
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
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unit sizes for each of the reserved lots, the remainder in
rr the phase would be redrawn consistent with an anticipated
market demand. Each final map for each phase would generally
contain fewer lots than shown on the tentative. A minimum
lot size would remain at 5880 square feet although it was
likely that most lots would be larger. The building
elevations received preliminary approval from the
architectural commission. Mr. Winklepleck noted that all the
homes would be single story. The map met all requirements of
the zoning ordinance with two exceptions : the sideyard
minimum setbacks where the developer was proposing 5 and 5
for a total of 10 feet. The R-1 8, 000 zone requirement was
a combination of 14 with a minimum of 5 feet. The other
exception being requested was the minimum lot size--as
specified in the R-1 8,000 zone the minimum was 8, 000 square
feet but the developer felt that with this concept and the
unique design of the house and layout of the lots, he could
provide an equivalent backyard, front yard, and house size on
a smaller lot. With that in mind, staff tried to make some
distinction between the minimum lot size of 8, 000 square feet
and the proposed minimum of 5880 . Staff felt that if the
commission were to approve this project, it should with be
with some stipulation of adding to the affordable housing of
the city. Staff proposed three different concepts, one being
part of finalizing each phase of the tract that the applicant
would provide a percentage of units in that phase equal to
the difference between the average lot size and the 8,000
square feet. If the average lot sizes in the phase were 7200
square feet, the applicant would be required to provide 10%
of the lots in the phase at an affordable cost or a moderate
cost as based on the 30% of medium household income in
Riverside County for a family of four per HUD requirements .
The second option was that the applicant would pay a fee to
the city' s housing fund based on the difference between the
lowest cost selling price in each phase and the equivalent
affordable housing cost described above. Third, would be a
developer option that if for any phase the differentiation in
cost between the least expensive unit and the affordable
equivalent as defined above would exceed $35, 000, the
applicant could provide or enter into an agreement with
Habitat for Humanities or another approved housing provider,
to produce a low income unit within the city of Palm Desert--
low income as defined to not exceed 60% of median income for
Riverside County as published by HUD standards . Based on
these items, staff recommended approval of the project. Mr.
Winklepleck stated that the developer would expand more fully
on the flexible lot line concept.
Commissioner Jonathan indicated that he understood why an
`w applicant would want smaller lot sizes and an exception to
the side yard setbacks, but asked for a summary of why staff
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
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felt that those two exceptions would appropriate for Palm
Desert, that location, and this project. Mr. Winklepleck ■ o
explained that on several occasions the city had granted the
exception to the sideyard setbacks; staff have not heard from
anyone living in those developments that they had been
detrimental in any way. Based on that staff did not have a
problem recommending the five foot setbacks . For the smaller
lots, staff had to look at the worst case scenario being 93
5880 square foot lots . With the design of the home being
proposed, with the setbacks of 20 feet in the front and 20
feet in the rear and in most cases the 20 feet in the rear
would be exceeded to 31 square feet, the question staff had
was what was the city trying to be accomplished in these
subdivisions, whether the lots were 8,000 square foot
minimums or 10,000 square foot minimums . The proposal was a
unique concept and to a certain extent, even with the minimum
square footages staff felt that they were providing minimum
setbacks and meeting requirements of the zone as far as open
space and air space. Mr. Drell said that the city created a
planned residential zone to allow for requests with unique
designs which accomplish the city' s goals . One of the goals
of lot size was to provide adequate sized rear yards . Rear
yards of this project were equal to many and most
subdivisions within the city in excess of 8,000 square feet.
Another goal and a policy of the city is to provide
incentives and regulatory relief to lower the cost of housing
per the state housing law. Therefore, the city has seen that
if they can show that the result of providing these
exceptions does provide housing costs which heretofore had
not been apparent in the valley in new construction and
contributed to the affordability of housing, that was
justification for that exception. That was why the city has
granted this exception, principally with some guarantee that
savings and cost of land translated to housing affordability.
At the same time staff was concerned about quality. In
looking at the floor plans staff felt these were of
reasonable quality with adequate rear yards . He noted that
in the last 15 years he has worked for the city, for 10 or 11
of those 15 years he never saw a single family subdivision
that provided housing for moderate income homeowners . They
went a long time with no projects, therefore the city was
seeing a response to market demands that this sort of housing
doesn' t exist and therefore they were trying to meet that
price point. They were looking for a way to put the two
together. In terms of the flexible lot concept, they have
seen most of the last single family subdivisions attempted in
the valley now being owned by a bank of some sort or the RTC.
The inability of a developer to respond to the market had
been the doom of many higher priced subdivisions processed in 1
the last four to five years .
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Commissioner Jonathan asked when the last time was that the
city approved a residential project at 8,000 square feet or
more without exceptions . Mr. Drell replied the project on
Deep Canyon. Mr. Winklepleck also indicated that the
remainder of the Winterhaven project on Hovley, which came
through as a second half. Mr. Drell noted there haven't been
many new subdivisions because most of the action had been
people taking over abandoned or bankrupt existing locations.
Commissioner Jonathan asked when the commission last approved
a project without exception to the minimum lot size
requirement. Mr. Winklepleck replied about 1-11 years ago.
Mr. Drell stated that they had approved three. Merano with
an average lot size of 7400. That property was zoned 7 units
per acre. An anomaly in the PR zone was that there were many
properties that were zoned for residential density that were
significantly higher than single family and the ultimate
approved density even at 7000 square foot lots was
significantly lower than the approved density--it could have
been condos . That was about 2 years ago, so every project
before Merano have been at 8,000 square feet.
Vice Chairperson Ferguson noted there were three alternatives
setforth on page 4 of the report; he asked if the findings
starting on page 5 were contingent on any one of the three
alternatives . Mr. Winklepleck replied that the
recommendation was contingent upon it, but the findings were
not contingent upon them. Mr. Drell said that a finding
consistent with the general plan would be somewhat contingent
in that the general plan contained goals . Vice Chairperson
Ferguson asked if the developer presented this project to
them with all 5880 square foot lots, and staff evaluated it
just on the merits of fitting within the municipal code, if
staff would still come up with the same recommendation or if
the recommendations and findings were contingent upon the
acquiescence to one of the three conditions . Mr. Drell said
that part of the requirement for meeting an affordable
housing goal had to do with history. When commission began
to confront these applications, typically the commission
looked for a justification to lower the standard. If there
was no justification, then they were amending the code. The
justification the commission used in the past for the
strongest case had always been to achieve the affordable
housing goal . If they were reducing the size of lots to
reduce the cost of land to reduce the cost of housing, that
cost should be reflected in the marketplace. It was one of
the justifications that historically the commission has used
to grant that exception. In essence, staff was following the
commission' s direction. If the commission felt that in this
particular case some other exception in terms of the unique
`,, design of the layout of the lots or unique design of the
house, if they felt there was some other extraordinary or
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unusual/special feature of this plan which justified an
exception, then that could be used in lieu of meeting the
affordable housing goals .
Vice Chairperson Ferguson noted that he read the developer's
tentative map proposal information booklet and he was not
sure the developer was correct or not when discussing the
flexible lot line approach being the approach of the 90 ' s and
questioning the fundamental assumption that 8,000 square feet
was a magic number cast in stone. He wasn't sure that was
true. He stated that he was trying to ascertain whether or
not the commission was tying the conditions to the findings
of his project or saying that this was a 26J% deviation from
code, they could not find a good reason for not doing that so
if the developer paid some money, it would be approved. Mr.
Drell said the justification to granting the savings in land
cost and development cost was to achieve a specific goal of
the city' s housing element which was to produce lower cost
housing available to the citizens of Palm Desert. That was
historically a reasonable trade-off to provide slightly
smaller lot sizes . If this project has other extraordinary
features which achieve the goal of the 8,000 square foot lot
and the commission identifies that, then the commission could
make that finding. Mr. Drell suggested that there should be
a fairly strong justification for granting the exception.
Vice Chairperson Ferguson asked how many times the commission
tied contributions to low and moderate housing to exceptions
to minimum lot sizes; Mr. Drell replied technically three
times . One was the approval of Desert Rose, which was an all
affordable housing project that has 5, 000 square foot lots
and the two Kaufman and Broad projects . There was a lot of
discussion on the Merano project about the issue and it
started out with smaller lot sizes and they have an average
of close enough to 8,000 that it satisfied commission' s
concerns that the lots were of adequate size. Vice
Chairperson Ferguson said that he understood that the two K
& B projects were entered into with a joint stipulation
between K & B and the city. Mr. Drell replied yes , there was
an agreement. Desert Rose was a Redevelopment Agency
sponsored project. Vice Chairperson Ferguson noted that the
current applicant was not stipulating to these conditions,
but was waiting for the commission' s determination and asked
the city attorney if the commission could legally require the
developer to accept one of the three conditions as a pre-
condition of moving forward with the project. Mr. Rudolph
felt the conditions demonstrated a nexus and were defensible,
but if the applicant was not inclined to go along with them
or if they wanted to bring some future litigation over it, it
might be something they might want to take into
consideration. He said he wouldn't mind more time to look at
the legality of this; if the applicant was opposed to these
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types of conditions, and the commission otherwise was
�•• inclined to go forward, he would like a continuance to
evaluate this .
Commissioner Campbell asked if Palm Desert has met all the
requirements for affordable housing. Mr. Drell replied no.
Commissioner Jonathan noted that staff ' s justification in
making a recommendation for approval including the exceptions
to the lot sizes and side yard limits was that this would
promote affordable housing. He indicated that Desert Rose
was about a mile away and asked what the inventory was out
there in reference to demand versus supply. He asked how
many vacant units there were and how sales were going. Mr.
Drell said that there were 45 units in escrow; they had a
management/marketing problem earlier. There was plenty of
demand, but even subsidized down to $100, 000 most of the
people who wanted to buy could only afford $90, 000 . He felt
the 45 escrows were good ones, but there were 220 people who
wanted to participate in the program but couldn't afford the
subsidized unit price. Commissioner Jonathan pointed out
that the demand seemed to be for the $90,000 unit price. Mr.
Drell felt that Desert Rose was a bad example to use because
they had some management/marketing failures that contributed
to a certain degree. They didn' t receive their white report
until a month ago so they couldn't even offer the units for
too sale. In this particular case the applicant had the ability
to, and if there was no market for the small houses he wanted
to build and a market for larger houses was there, then the
plan had the ability to accommodate that. Commissioner
Jonathan stated that he was trying to determine supply and
demand. There was a demand for lower prices, maybe in the
$90,000 range, 45 people were in escrow, and asked how many
of those had closed and how many people lived there already.
Mr. Drell replied that none had closed yet. Commissioner
Jonathan asked how many units that project was approved for;
Mr. Drell stated there were 161 units and the project was
built in one phase. Commissioner Jonathan asked how long
those houses had been there; Mr. Drell replied about four-six
months . They had a sales office before that, but had no
ability to take deposits and essentially no marketing effort.
Commissioner Jonathan asked when they began their marketing
efforts, effective or otherwise; Mr. Drell said in May.
Commissioner Jonathan noted that in some way, shape or form
there had been some effort since May and at this point no
escrows had closed out of 161 units .
Vice Chairperson Ferguson opened the public testimony and
asked the applicant to address the commission.
MR. JIM FOXX, the applicant, stated that he was present
to answer any questions .
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Vice Chairperson Ferguson asked if Mr. Foxx had an
opportunity to evaluate the staff report. Mr. Foxx replied
yes . Vice Chairperson Ferguson noted that a statement was
made on page 3 within the last full paragraph that said that
the applicant has stated that because of the unique lot
configuration and how it was designed, the project would
provide a comparable house size with an equivalent front yard
and equivalent larger rear yard as the typical 8, 000 square
foot lot unit. He asked Mr. Foxx to elaborate on if there
was a comparable sized house and a comparable sized front
yard and back yard and an 8,000 square foot lot, how it could
fit on a 5880 square foot lot. Mr. Foxx stated that they
didn't have the same size of front yard. They prepared a
small, simple exhibit showing a typical 8,000 square foot lot
at 80 feet wide and 100 feet deep. The lot to the left would
be one of their lots, also 80 feet wide and 84 feet deep.
Setbacks from the front of the lot were the same, but the
standard home design would typically have the garage in front
and the house in an L shape behind the garage. The house
shown was a 2200 square foot house. The lot itself was 80 '
x 841 , so it was larger than the 5880, but the relationship
to the back yard was the same in all of the plans regardless
of the size of house and size of lot. They more efficiently
used the space on the lot by bringing the house forward and
wrapping it around the garage--this was a style they created
many years ago on the small lots between Fred Waring and
Highway 111 east of Monterey ( i .e. San Nicholas and Santa
Rosa) . On those lots they had done similar house-forward
designs very effectively. He said that if there was an 8,000
square foot lot with a larger house on that layout, the house
had to get larger to the rear of the lot. In Palm Desert
there were houses built on 8, 000 square feet or larger; in
Belmonte some of the lots were 9,200 square feet and had a 19
foot wide rear yard side to side. Not enough to put in a
swimming pool, or much of anything. The real basis of their
plan was that every house had a minimum of 30 feet from the
rear property line to the main part of the house and the
width of that 30 foot space was wide enough to accommodate a
pool and have an effective rear yard. The floor plans
demonstrated that the house extended back around into the
pool a little, but in every case there was effective rear
yard space. If they took the same site and put in cul-de-
sacs from Deep Canyon the way the project to the north of
them on Deep Canyon did, they achieved a yield of 3 . 7 houses
per acres . They would be able with a similar configuration
to get a yield of 74-75 lots . They believed they would only
end up with about 80 lots . The commission received a
breakdown of that and the conclusions based on each of the
three floor plans and percentages of what they felt would
sell for each floor plan and the range in size that those
houses would have for the lots that would go with them. They
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felt they would be on average very near the 7400 square foot
�r size that Merano was experiencing. If their yield was only
about 80 lots they wouldn't increase the yield on the site
significantly. He believed that land planning had a lot to
do with some very intangible things that affect the quality
of life. His land plan was primarily made up of cul-de-sacs .
It was a more expensive approach and they actually had more
square footage for the streets to be able to do that, but
virtually all the homes were on cul-de-sacs with the lower
traffic. They felt it would be beneficial to do a private
community because of the proximity of the high school . The
potential there for vandalism and other kinds of problems in
the community with the high school immediately adjacent was
of great concern. He felt they could address that with a
private community. There were a lot of things with their
land plan that they thought would create a superior product.
They were not hoping to get substantial increases in their
density. The proposal was about trying to create a superior
plan and right now the market was going toward larger homes .
Merano was finding that the demand at their project was for
larger houses and their largest only went to about 1900
square feet. They were losing sales because of that. The
Century Homes project (Belmonte) had much larger homes and
had been very successful in the marketplace. They had come
up with a unique idea that did not tie them to a lot size
taw directly. When they approached staff, staff said they would
have to ask for approval of the smallest lot size there would
possibly be and as each phase went through, if they asked for
fewer lots than were approved staff could handle that
administratively and not have to go back through a tentative
map process . They were showing the commission the absolute
worst case if everyone that walked through the door wanted
the smallest house. They believed they would sell larger
homes . Their smallest house on the 70 foot wide lot needed
a 92 foot wide lot when a den was added, another bedroom, a
third car garage, and that lot was almost an 8, 000 square
foot lot for their smallest base plan. He discovered that
builders tended to offer three floor plans and the buyer
could take it or leave it, but would offer a variety of
options inside. This is a different approach. They wanted
people to be able to see the core of the house, the basic
three bedroom, two bathroom house. If they liked the size
and feel of that but needed four bedrooms but also wanted a
den, it could be done. He said they were doing this now in
Rancho Mirage. There they only hoped to pre-sell 50% of
their houses . They had pre-sold all of their homes after the
model and first two production houses were built. Every one
was pre-sold because the buyer could see the core of the
house.
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
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i
Commissioner Jonathan asked what project he was talking
about. Mr. Foxx said it was Sterling Cove in Rancho Mirage.
Commissioner Jonathan asked if it was an affordable housing
project. Mr. Foxx replied no. Commissioner Jonathan asked
what the average selling price was; Mr. Foxx replied that the
starting price was $279,000. Every house had been
customized. None of the buyers took the pre-designed room
options/additions literally. In every case they had further
customized those spaces to be exactly what they wanted. He
felt that would happen here. Buyers were more sophisticated.
Instead of having to take one of three floor plans and fit
into the house, they could help design the house they would
like. As they design room additions to go onto whichever
base plan they wanted to start with, they would make the lot
larger commiserate with the house to always maintain the yard
space. In a typical 8,000 square foot project, the smallest
house had the largest yard space because it had the least
square footage of house. The largest had commiserately less
yard square footage because the house takes up more of the
space. They were doing just the opposite. As the house gets
bigger, the yard gets bigger. The useable yard and backyard
got bigger.
Commissioner Jonathan noted that Mr. Foxx compared this
project to Merano with the largest house at 1900 square feet
and average lot sizes of 7400 square feet. He asked for
clarification. Mr. Foxx said that the 5880 square foot lot
was the smallest lot that they could build on in the project,
which meant a 1650 square foot house. If anything was added
to the house, the lot got bigger. Commissioner Jonathan
indicated that the applicant created some projections of the
kinds of products they thought would sell and that the
largest houses would sell, and that was where the demand
would be; therefore, the city would end up with the larger
lot sizes . Mr. Foxx said that was correct on average.
Commissioner Jonathan asked what average lot sizes would
result from the applicant' s projections . Mr. Foxx replied
about 7400 square feet. Commissioner Jonathan asked what the
average selling price would be; Mr. Foxx stated that they had
not set selling prices . Commissioner Jonathan said that it
was relevant because as part of the justification for the
exception staff used affordable housing. If the applicant
was asking for 5880 square foot lots and would sell $200,000
homes, that was one thing. If they were going to sell
$75,000 homes, that was another. Because it was part of the
application it had to be part of the commission' s
consideration. Commissioner Jonathan asked for an estimate;
Mr. Foxx stated that they planned to sell plan 1 in the
neighborhood of $150,000. Commissioner Jonathan said that
would be on the no frills, 1650 square foot 5880 square foot
lot; Mr. Foxx concurred. Commissioner Jonathan asked what
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
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range the prices could go up to for the 2200 square feet with
%W everything; Mr. Foxx replied that the 2200 square foot house,
plan 3, was a base house and it could get larger, possibly up
to 2500 square feet, and they would expect a house in that
range to be $200, 000 .
Commissioner Campbell said that the applicant would not be
able to guarantee to the commission that they would be able
to sell the larger lots, otherwise, all the lots would be
5880 square feet. The applicant could be building the units
in phases . Mr. Foxx said that in theory that could happen if
that was what the market needed for their housing.
Vice Chairperson Ferguson asked what assurances the
commission had beyond Mr. Foxx' s word that every lot wouldn't
sell at 5880 square feet. He wanted to evaluate the project
at 7400 square feet, but was being forced to evaluate it on
the 5880 square feet. He stated that he liked the concept,
but was uncomfortable giving the applicant a map with 93 lots
at 5880 square feet, leaving aside the low/moderate income
housing condition which was a separate issue for him. He was
not sure he would do that, but it was what he was being asked
to do with Mr. Foxx' s assurance that 7400 feet was the rough
average depending upon the market. He asked if there was
anything else the developer had to add that could give
assurance. Mr. Foxx said that they would make more money on
a larger house, so their interest was in selling a larger
house. The smallest house was their least profitable one.
Vice Chairperson Ferguson asked if Mr. Foxx would be willing
to accept a modification to the proposal to set a minimum and
maximum average lot size when the project was completed. Mr.
Foxx said he was not sure what was being proposed. Vice
Chairperson Ferguson said that if the applicant was aiming
for an average of 7400 square foot average lot sizes; if the
commission said they would approve the plan as envisioned,
but as the final stage of the project finished out average
lot size had to be within 7200 to 7600 square feet, or
whatever numbers to give the applicant a comfortable
flexibility but condition approval of this on an objective
criteria that meant the city would get what the applicant
wanted to put there, and not 93 lots at 5880 square feet.
Mr. Foxx said he understood what was being said, and he was
not sure that was necessarily the solution. He didn' t have
an objection in principle to that, his concern was that they
were trying to be market driven. If there was a recession
after the first of the year, they might end up in the project
with a smaller average lot size than they think. He felt it
was better to have a successful project that was finished out
that met the needs of the people who buy there then to have
ftw a partially finished project that was a burden on a lot of
people. He stated that he understood the commission' s
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
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dilemma. If market conditions sufficiently changed, they
could end up with a different project or they could end up
delivering larger sized lots if the trend they see now
happened to continue. This project wasn' t about small lots,
it started that way because in order to have a 70 foot lot,
they had to plan all of them at 70 feet. Setting some kind
of a minimum average lot size would be okay because they
didn't think they would stay with very many 5880 square foot
lots . It was inconceivable. He said it was suggested
earlier that there be some sort of sliding scale for an
affordable housing component. He didn't know how to do that
effectively. This was a unique concept. If it worked they
would see real benefits for a lot of people. He felt that
from the display of the two different types of lots that
there were valid design issues in the way single family homes
were designed and they had placed a greater value on the rear
yard space for families, rather than front yard space. They
had been doing that for years and felt it was better for
families and the community overall . They designed their land
plan with cul-de-sac streets and private streets because that
was a better quality of life, especially for that site with
the potential negatives surrounding it. They didn't want to
build 1650 foot houses, that was only their small plan.
Vice Chairperson Ferguson said that normally the commission
did not evaluate a person' s character, integrity, or
trustworthiness--that was too subjective. They simply write
into the law what it is the city would like to see done with
respect to the use of property. Through this proposal the
applicant was asking the city to assume the risk that the
applicant was assuming with respect to the market and he was
not prepared to do that on behalf of the city without some
guarantee of a downside that would be significantly above
5880 in total average lot size. He didn't disagree with Mr.
Foxx' s comments; they were new and novel and questioned the
fundamental assumption of the PR-5 zoning restriction at
8,000 square feet. The problem was that he had not had
enough time to focus in on challenging that assumption,
trying to structure the proposal to protect the city as it
deserves with respect to granting exceptions, particularly
the largest single exception in the history of the city in
terms of lot size. He said that commission would listen to
public testimony, but he would probably make a motion to
continue this item because it deserved the commission' s full
attention. He wanted to see a way to make the proposal work
and protect the city' s interest. He said that he was going
to refer to the city attorney whether or not the city could
require the developer to have a minimum lot size. He also
felt they needed to evaluate whether or not seeking a map
with the maximum number of lots possible was the wisest way
to go. He said that in concept he was not opposed to the
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 19, 1995
ideas being presented, but was opposed to granting 93 lots at
5880 square feet.
Vice Chairperson Ferguson asked if anyone wished to speak in
FAVOR of the proposal . There was no one. Vice Chairperson
Ferguson asked if anyone wished to address the commission in
OPPOSITION.
MR. MARK WISEMAN, 74-550 Day Lily Circle, stated that
this was the first time they had heard of these detailed
plans . He said that he was sickened by the
possibilities the proposal presented. The average home
in their neighborhood was over 3, 000 square feet. There
were some leading residents of the Coachella Valley
living in their neighborhood, like the publisher of the
Desert Sun, and others, who were all led into that
neighborhood because it was stipulated to them that the
homes would be built out similar to theirs . They moved
from other locations to this area. He felt they were
doomed as to the value of their homes if this type of
project with a base lot of 5880 square feet was
approved. He understood that there was a minimum of
8,000 square foot lots in Palm Desert. They would have
bought in south Palm Desert if they had known there was
a possibility of this happening because their value as
�.r a homeowner in Palm Desert of ever trying to sell and
recoup the value of their homes in their area would be
gone. He assumed there would be a lot of residents in
their area and probably across Fred Waring and The Grove
and some other developments who had paid the going rates
based on Palm Desert standards that would be very much
against this type of project. It didn' t make sense to
them. They had to suffer through the fact that Curt
Dunham and the development left the project; there were
ten homes built on his block, seven were owned and three
were lease options . They had to suffer through the fact
that they didn' t get the 37 homes that were stipulated
to be built. They were not protected in any way and
just went through another hearing for another
development that they were building some homes on the
blocks in back of them and in front of them, but those
homes were at least on conventional lots and were 8, 000
square feet or more. He felt this was a real shocking
situation and he and his neighbors would have some
problems . He also felt there would be a major problem
on Deep Canyon. It was impacted right now with all the
traffic going through there to both the Catholic school
in the morning, to Palm Desert Middle School, as well as
Lincoln Elementary School . They have a traffic problem
now which some of the neighbors pointed out to the city
previously. He felt with this type of development if
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 19, 1995
there was no allowance for Deep Canyon to be widened or
adjusted, it would cause a nightmare. moo
MR. DAN SHILOTILL, a resident at 74-530 Day Lily Circle,
stated that as a member of Father Timlon's parish, the
traffic on Deep Canyon was phenomenal . The proposed
project would enter and exit off of Deep Canyon as the
main focal point, which was across the street from a
school . He felt that was absurd. He asked the
commission to look at that if they were looking at
protection for the citizens . He felt that the city made
various commitments to them as to the development they
would have and what would surround them. He said he was
also an attorney and hoped the city attorney could do
some research as to the legalities of the proposal . He
stated he would like to see a copy of that report, as
well as a copy of the staff report.
Vice Chairperson Ferguson informed him that copies of the
staff report were available.
Mr. Shilotill said that he had heard the discussion
about the Rancho Mirage project and felt the proposed
project was comparing apples to oranges . Rancho Mirage
versus low cost housing was no comparison. To use that
as an example of a moving forward with a moving target
lot and building lot he would like to see how the staff
report justified that. He said it was $270,000 homes
versus a moving target home and a promise that the
developer was a reliable person. He noted that in Mr.
Dunham' s project, the developer decided to stop because
things weren't going good or because of a fluctuation in
the market. Another development in the area, one of the
premises that individual made was that he was going to
build out the entire area at one time and he was doing
that. They were smaller homes, but they met and worked
with him. He now had three homes in escrow and they
were all the 2600 square foot homes . He couldn't move
any of the smaller homes . That was consistent with what
would have happened if that area had developed. He
stressed concerns of how the proposal was physically
structured. It was incompatible opening into a school .
Deep Canyon with two lanes was inadequate and when Deep
Canyon opened into the high school it would be worse.
They would be putting children at risk.
FATHER ANTONY TIMLON, Pastor at Sacred Heart, 43-775
Deep Canyon, stated that his major concern was traffic
safety on Deep Canyon. He felt more study on this
project was needed, otherwise they officially did not
take a stand pro or con on the development, but they
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 19, 1995
were worried about safety and the entrances and access
Ar to this development.
Vice Chairperson Ferguson asked if the applicant would like
to re-address the commission.
Mr. Foxx stated that regarding traffic on Deep Canyon,
the city was requiring them to widen Deep Canyon to the
ultimate right-of-way which corresponded with the
ultimate right-of-way at Day Lily Circle and other
streets to the north of them. Deep Canyon would be
improved with their project. He said that he was of the
opinion that the city would not allow access from any
place other than Deep Canyon.
Mr. Drell replied that was correct. Deep Canyon was a
collector street and its function and design is to take
traffic off of local streets and get it to Fred Waring.
Mr. Foxx said that an alternative to this project was to
do a series of cul-de-sacs similar to the ones at Day
Lily Circle. That would put five cul-de-sacs, each with
their own intersection, on Deep Canyon. What a private
community like this would do would be to create an
entrance with a gate. The city wanted their entrances
near to the center of the property and they tried to
locate that in the best possible location given the
traffic conflicts of the many driveways in and out of
the church and school next door. They all had children
and were concerned with their safety. He felt that a
project like this with one entrance, especially with a
gate that stopped people coming in and slowed them down,
was a safer situation than five separate cul-de-sacs .
He suggested that the traffic engineer give his thoughts
on that issue. Mr. Foxx also stated that they were not
proposing a low cost housing project. They were
proposing to build houses with all of the amenities that
any other house in Palm Desert would typically have and
deserve. They were proposing that their house start at
1650 square feet and get larger. If the demand was for
2600 square foot homes that the project to the north
seemed to be showing, their houses could get as large as
they need to be given the demand. That spoke well for
the direction they had projected as far as their mix of
houses . He said he didn' t know Deep Canyon would ever
enter into the high school .
Mr. Drell indicated that was discussed at one time with the
development to the east and it was abandoned except for an
emergency access . He said that they would not direct that
kind of traffic through a residential neighborhood.
15
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 19, 1995
Mr. Foxx stated that one of the reasons they created the
land plan that they did was to have private streets with
gates and to have very controlled access within the
community and cul-de-sac streets . The one street going
to their north was more because the fire department
wanted a second point of ingress/egress and all of their
homes would have fronted onto cul-de-sacs . He felt this
project deserved approval . He noted that they were well
below the general plan density that allowed 5-7 dwelling
units per acre. Somehow a formula that set some sort of
minimum lot size to make this less scary could make
sense for everyone. He felt this project had a lot of
good things going for it. He didn't think feel the
quality of their project in a community like this at
this location would in any way devalue existing homes .
A successful community would increase the value of
everything around it and not detract from it. They had
no intention of trying to build 80 $90,000 homes or an
Indio affordable home here, but something that was
somewhat unique to Palm Desert which would also respect
the right of the buyer in the marketplace to decide what
kind of house they want, the configuration, what they
can afford, what sort of room designations they want and
be able to get a house that conformed to their lifestyle
and needs rather than the other way around.
Vice Chairperson Ferguson closed the public hearing and asked
for commission comments .
Commissioner Jonathan said that he has listened to all the
comments and concluded that 1) staff ' s justification for the
exceptions to the lot sizes and side yard setbacks was to
achieve the goal of providing low cost housing and yet the
applicant said that they weren' t building low cost housing.
The project would sell houses beginning at $150, 000 and
probably going above $200,000 . That was not low cost
housing. Staff indicated that the demand for low cost
housing was under $100,000 and probably around $90,000 . The
applicant was projecting mostly the larger units which would
further skew the project away from affordable housing. He
asked why they would be granting an exception if the goal was
to enhance and provide more low cost housing when what the
commission was hearing was that this would not be low cost
housing. Even if it was, there were plenty of affordable
housing units available now a half mile down the street; 161
units were sitting down the street, none of which had sold at
this time. He asked why the city was granting an exception
to build more, even if the commission accepted that they
would be low income housing to justify the exceptions . He
felt the city needed to not direct its efforts so much at new
development, but at existing neighborhoods like Palma Village
16
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 19, 1995
between Fred Waring and Highway 111 bounded by Monterey and
`w Portola. That was an area where the goal of low income
housing could be wetted to an overall improvement of the city
and everyone would come out a winner. There were enough
projects in existence and planned, including the two Kaufman
and Broad projects, to take care of planned unit development
low income housing. There was no need for any more of that.
He said he drove Deep Canyon daily to drop his children off
at the high school and middle school and there was a mess
there. He liked that the project would address that, but
regardless the traffic engineer needed to give that area some
attention. He suggested having two left hand turn lanes
there. There were significant objections from neighboring
property owners and as a commission they had always been
sensitive to people already there. The bottom line was that
the exceptions to the ordinance were not warranted. The
project was nice if it came in at 8, 000 square feet plus .
They didn' t need any complicated formulas or a waiting
formula. Every lot should be in compliance with the zoning
ordinance as it exists; it was there for a reason and it was
8,000 square feet. It was deliberated a long time and with
great thought when they extended the side yard setback from
ten feet to 14 feet combined. That was a long, lengthy
process and it was there for a good reason. He also did not
feel that exception was warranted. He stated that he would
ftw have no problem with the project if the applicant came back
with 8,000 square foot lots and 14 foot combined side yard
setbacks .
Commissioner Fernandez agreed with Commissioner Jonathan.
The commission had to be sensitive to the existing neighbors
and if the applicant could come back with a project under
those conditions and meet the standards of the city, he would
be in favor.
Commissioner Campbell said she would be more comfortable
having the city attorney look at the conditions and have the
developer come back with certain changes .
Vice Chairperson Ferguson stated that he had mixed emotions
on this project. There was a very strong free market side of
him that felt the market should dictate what the property
should be sold at and the developer should be given the
flexibility they need to creatively approach projects so that
they don't continue to reinvent the wheel . At the same time
there was a public interest involved here which he felt was
articulated by the opponents to the proposal and that was the
traffic aspects of the proposal within the vicinity of the
three schools . That was a decided concern. Also, there was
the issue of whether or not there was a detrimental impact to
adjoining neighborhoods which he felt was addressed tonight,
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 19, 1995
but could be addressed in further detail . At this point he
didn't want to stop a project that showed promise simply end
because there weren't answers to questions, which he felt
with some thoughtful time, effort, energy by the developer,
city staff and members of the commission, might be addressed.
He said he was inclined to seek a continuance because if he
was asked to vote right now and was forced to represent the
city in that capacity to protect the city he would vote no.
Accordingly he would move for a continuance of this matter to
the next scheduled planning commission meeting, whether it be
January 2 or 16 . Also he would like the city attorney to
look at the legalities of the conditions as proposed by staff
and evaluate the legalities of the proposal he suggested,
requiring an average minimum lot size or a range of average
minimum lot sizes . He felt that the proposal took a head-on
assault at the legitimacy and logic of an 8,000 square foot
minimum lots and he didn't have a quick answer for that. He
noted that another item on the agenda was a comprehensive
review of the zoning ordinances and felt that might be an
appropriate forum to look at the wisdom of the previous
requirements . He was uncomfortable to blatantly disregard
8,000 square feet because it suited the applicant' s
development needs to the disregard of people who have always
relied on the fact that with rare exceptions, at no time
would there be less than 8,000 square feet on a lot. He
reopened the public hearing and made a motion to continue
this item to January 16 with instructions to staff as
outlined.
Action:
Moved by Vice Chairperson Ferguson, seconded by Commissioner
Campbell, continuing C/Z 95-6 , TT 28295, and PP 95-10 to
January 16, 1996 by minute motion. Commissioner Jonathan
spoke to the motion by saying that he usually was one of the
first to jump in to give an applicant an extension to allow
an opportunity to address concerns but he would be voting
against an extension. He felt the applicant knew full well
what he was doing and he came to the commission seeking
exceptions and he felt the commission needed to say no at
this time. That didn't mean the applicant would go away. He
was always free to come back with the same project, publicly
noticed, that would meet the concerns . By personally saying
no to the continuance, he was not saying he was completely
opposed to this project, but felt it needed to come back to
the commission brand new, fresh with 8,000 square foot lots
and 14 foot combined setbacks on the sides . Vice Chairperson
Ferguson also noted that Chairperson Beaty was absent tonight
and wanted to give Chairperson Beaty an opportunity to vote
on this proposal as well . He was not willing to throw out
the timing or work put into this project without an
18
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 19 , 1995
opportunity to evaluate it further. He called for the vote.
The motion carried 3-1 (Commissioner Jonathan voted no) .
IX. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS - B
None.
X. MISCELLANEOUS
A. Case Nos . PP 95-6/CUP 95-10 - Traffic Study by the
Department of Public Works
Mr. Greenwood noted that during the approval process for PP
95-6/CUP 95-10 the commission requested that a traffic study
be performed to address traffic issues relevant to the
project. He said that the study was before the commission
and he was present to answer any questions .
Commissioner Jonathan stated that when he advocated the
traffic study, he was looking for solutions and the study
basically said there was no problem. He felt there was a
problem there now and was concerned about when the restaurant
went in that the problem would be worse. For example, just
f'' the day before they tried to make a left turn into the alley
but it was difficult because every time they went into the
turn lane, someone almost hit them because they were wanting
to make a left turn either onto Highway 111 or onto the
parking lot south of Highway 111 . It was a shared left turn
lane. He perceived problems there and was hoping to get more
solutions to the problem rather than an evaluation that the
problem doesn't exist. He asked what could be done.
Mr. Greenwood stated that we often perceive problems where
congestion is seen. Real problems were measurable and they
have taken steps to measure that which is measurable. They
measured that and there was no indication of a real problem.
They could take actions that were not supported by numbers,
but that was not recommended. Mr. Drell said that there were
a limited number of solutions and if turning left was unsafe
there, left turns could be prohibited, _ although Circle K
would probably not be thrilled with that solution. Mr.
Greenwood said that they took specific action to study the
accident history there because he thought safety would be the
issue. There had been no accident reports involving vehicles
turning left out of the alley or from Circle K. There was
one accident within the five year study period and that
involved someone turning right into the alley. Mr. Drell
%or noted that there was a tough piece of geometry there. if
those stores were still going to have access, each driver
19
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 19, 1995
would have to determine what was the simplest way to get to
that block and they could take that choice away from them and
prohibit certain sources of movement or keep it the way it
is . They had a suggestion that they at least in terms of
people leaving the site, that they at least direct the people
that want to go south that there was access onto E1 Paseo.
It could be a start. Southbound traffic could be directed to
use El Paseo. The restaurant redesigned the site and it
provided access to the restaurant directly from Highway 111
and that was a considerable achievement getting it through
Caltrans . Hopefully most knowledgeable patrons would utilize
that entrance.
Commissioner Campbell asked if they would be widening the
alley. Mr. Greenwood said that the alley would be widened to
24 feet along the frontage of the restaurant. Commissioner
Campbell said that when people leave the restaurant parking
lot, they could make a right turn on Portola to go to Highway
111 and if they wanted to make a left turn, they should go
east on the alley and exit on E1 Paseo. Mr. Greenwood said
that the study indicated that they thought about 25% of the
patrons would do that. Commissioner Campbell asked if public
works could make a sign that would direct traffic in that
manner and no left turn on Portola. Mr. Greenwood indicated
that staff was not proposing that the left turn be
prohibited, but they could install a sign that would indicate
that access was provided to the east if they were to take the
alley to E1 Paseo. He said it could be a directional or
guide sign to indicate that it was a viable route.
Commissioner Jonathan asked about the orange cones that have
been used on Country Club and asked if it would prove
effective in this situation. Mr. Drell felt that the problem
was that the center lane was shared by so many different
movements that putting obstacles to prevent left turns out
would probably interfere with some other movement that people
do. Mr. Greenwood said that would mean diverting traffic to
some other location and possibly displacing the problem
somewhere else that might be less desirable.
Vice Chairperson Ferguson said that he was of the same
opinion. He noted that three of the four commissioners have
expressed their perception that there was a problem.
Commissioner Campbell worked by there, Commissioner Ferguson
lived by there and Commissioner Jonathan visited there and
they all saw a problem. Given that, staff did what the
commission asked and that was to provide their best effort to
document what the situation was there. He personally did not
believe staff . He stated that he saw the problem daily and
would give staff the benefit of the doubt, but would like
when the restaurant was opened an additional study done at
20
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 19, 1995
that time to see if staff was right or wrong and address
`.. remediation at that point. Mr. Greenwood requested
clarification as to which facts Vice Chairperson Ferguson had
concerns with. Vice Chairperson Ferguson stated that he did
not like using averages on a national basis for restaurants
as opposed to actual past practice. He said he spoke to Mr.
Drell who indicated that there was nothing there. He felt it
would have been interesting to have monitored the in-flow and
out-flow during the existence of the Christmas tree lot as
compared to the vacant lot. They would be having an
operating entity there and the study suggested that only 11
people would come to a restaurant between 6 : 00 p.m. and 7 : 00
p.m. , but he didn't have to believe that. Mr. Greenwood felt
that the use of a Christmas tree lot could not compare to a
restaurant. The Christmas tree lot would have double or
triple the number of vehicles going there every hour. The
restaurant use was described as a high-end small facility.
The manual for that restaurant use had something like 30
studies that were mostly conducted in San Francisco and San
Diego where they did measure high-end sit down low turnover
restaurants which he felt was a comparable use and they found
these averages, although he specified that the average ranged
quite a lot. The average restaurant size was three times
that of the project size.
Commissioner Jonathan stated that he believed staff ' s
numbers, but the conclusion was that there was not a problem.
His conclusion was that there was problem. Mr. Greenwood
clarified that his conclusion was not that there was not a
problem, but that traffic was using the access adequately.
There was no safety problem, the delay was adequate and
within standard of 13 seconds average delay, maximum delay of
80 seconds . The average wait at the traffic signal at
Portola and Highway 111 was over 100 seconds . The delay at
the alley as measured was not a problem. Even if they wanted
to ignore the average the worst case was 82 seconds, which
happened one time in over two hours of study. The facts were
that there was not a true traffic safety or delay problem
which could result in a safety problem. He felt that
congestion was being perceived as a safety problem.
Commissioner Jonathan asked Mr. Greenwood to indulge the
commission and even if there was not a problem in his mind,
to tell the commission how that good situation could get even
better. Commissioner Campbell recommended that someone sit
there all day long and not just from 11 : 00 to 12 : 00 . That
was when she tried to get out to go to her Soroptomist
meeting. She had to be there at 12 : 00 and she left the
President' s Parking Lot East and she was stuck because of the
�.r red light on E1 Paseo. When E1 Paseo got the green light the
other traffic would start and it was difficult to get across .
21
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 19, 1995
Mr. Greenwood said that the ultimate solution for seeing no
congestion was to adjust the timing of the traffic signal at rli
Portola and Highway 111, which the city had no control over,
or some kind of barrier in the median on Portola, which would
restrict left turn movements . Vice Chairperson Ferguson
asked if the city controlled the signal at E1 Paseo and
Portola. Mr. Greenwood replied yes . Vice Chairperson
Ferguson felt the signals were not synchronized; they were
first barred by traffic going southbound on Portola and
crossing Highway 111 and just about the time that finished
they were bombarded by traffic going northbound on Portola
from the E1 Paseo light. A car could sit there as long as
four and five minutes, and if you were to try to back up,
there are cars behind you. He hoped that Mr. Greenwood would
not take the remarks personally, but the information did not
comport with his experience and the methodology he didn' t
want to attack at this point because they didn't have a
restaurant built yet, but requested when it was built that
another study with this or another more thorough methodology
be used to revisit the situation to see if it was something
they should be concerned with. He didn't want to wait until
someone died there before it was deemed a traffic problem.
Mr. Drell felt that most of the comments seemed to involve
entering the site, not exiting. Vice Chairperson Ferguson i
said that his were entering because that was where he too
frequently had a problem. Mr. Drell believed that Mr.
Greenwood' s analysis dealt mostly with exiting. Mr.
Greenwood believed that the problem was westbound left turn
exiting the alley. Mr. Drell noted that there was only one
way to enter the site, there was no way to manipulate how
they get there. They have to make that left turn if going
southbound on Portola. There might be a problem trying to
make that left turn when there was a lot of traffic, but in
terms of a physical fix other than prohibiting the movement,
he didn't think they should manipulate all the traffic
circulation in the E1 Paseo/Highway 111 area to facilitate
people making a left turn into Circle K. It was a very short
leg and was inherently difficult with eight different desired
traffic movements and the city didn't even control the signal
on Highway 111 at all . The other movement could be looked
at, but there were not many options to fix the situation
other than the good judgement of the drivers making the
decision.
Commissioner Jonathan felt that, unfortunately, might be
where they ended up. He didn't have a problem with the
restaurant use; it didn' t create the problem and had a right
to go there. He noted that Mr. Greenwood didn't create the
situation and it could be one of those anomalies where that
was the way it would stay until someone tears down the Circle
22
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 19, 1995
K or until some major kind of change was made they might be
`m stuck with it. If that was staff ' s conclusion, now or later,
he would buy that. It was just a weird situation there. He
stated that he would have felt better if Mr. Greenwood had
said that they looked at putting cones there but couldn't
because no one would be happy because there wouldn't be any
left turns out of the alley. Or that they looked at closing
the driveway to Circle K to channel them through the alley
but that didn't work for the following reasons and the
conclusion was that there was no good solution. He would be
fine with that if that was the process staff went through.
If staff didn't do that, he suggested that maybe staff could
do that either now or at some later time. If there was no
way fix this particular problem, staff could just say so and
that would be fine. It has been there a long time and they
would survive it.
Vice Chairperson Ferguson stated for the record that his
concern was ingress, which was addressed by Mr. Winklepleck
via striping. The biggest problem was someone coming out
right in the middle of the alley because there was no stripe,
therefore, they couldn't turn in until that person turned
left. He felt that Commissioner Campbell raised very valid
concerns about egress and to get a report that basically said
that the commission didn't know what they were talking about
rather than that they had looked at all these solutions and
there was really nothing they could do. It struck him as odd
and he didn' t mean the comments personally, but the report
didn't comport with his experience. When there was a
restaurant there and actual cars could be counted, he would
like to see those cars counted and not some national study
relied on. If he was wrong he would be the first to
apologize. Mr. Drell said that they could also look at all
the possible traffic control measures that could be employed
there to see if they have any potential for improving the
situation. They could evaluate every possible thing that
could be done there so that commission would be comfortable
to know that they looked at every conceivable physical
improvement and would find out reasons why it could not be
done physically or that it wouldn't solve any problems .
Mr. Greenwood noted that the concerns basically involve
turning movements . Mr. Drell concurred. Mr. Greenwood said
that given space restrictions of adjacent development and
signals, they would have no room to spread the movements out.
Therefore, the only possible solution would be to prevent the
movements . Now the problem, if it was a problem, was
displaced and more people would be unhappy. They had just
gone through all the possible improvements and he asked if
this was something the commission would like pursued. Vice
Chairperson Ferguson felt it was the planning commission' s
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 19, 1995
responsibility to look at traffic problems in association
with land use. They saw a restaurant going in through the
redevelopment agency, whether it was sold or leased. Traffic
was not even addressed in the study. He raised the fact that
it wasn' t brought up and said that he believed there was a
problem there. He felt there was a comment that why should
a traffic study be done that would just confirm that there
was a problem there. He felt it was the need of the
commission to address the problem and traffic should be
addressed as associated with land use. Then he got a report
back that said there was no problem and offered no attempt to
remediate the existing situation. He found himself wondering
if this was the way the city approached traffic problems with
private developers versus the redevelopment agency. He spoke
to several council members about the proposed land use. He
didn' t want to abdicate the commission' s responsibilities
simply because staff handled it, staff didn' t think there was
a problem, staff didn't think commissioners needed to know
about that, or it was not a problem and so they wouldn't look
at solutions because it was not a problem. He didn't think
there was healthy communication from his point of view with
a very legitimate area involving traffic. He stressed that
the comments were not personal, but felt that staff was
defensive and resistant to what he hoped were contributing
comments and that was not a healthy environment. He didn't
want to operate on that kind of basis . Mr. Greenwood stated
that he didn't intend to be resistive to the suggestions, but
as the transportation engineer for the city his job was to
base his recommendations on the facts, as he can identify
them. With the restaurant not existing there, all they had
to rely on were other similar uses/restaurants . That was the
basis for that assumption. He said that he would happily
take any suggestions the commission had to solve the problem
the commission saw. He asked if there were solutions that
should be explored. Vice Chairperson Ferguson stated that he
was not a traffic engineer and that was why he was willing to
defer to staff until there was a restaurant there. His
methodology would have used existing similar businesses in
Palm Desert as opposed to a national study which took into
account no unique geographical demographics, much less
seasonal visitors . They would get a restaurant there and all
he was saying tonight was that the staff report did not
comport with his experience and he would like to see the
study revisited at the time that the restaurant was there to
make sure they weren' t creating a .problem.
Commissioner Jonathan suggested a continuance to allow staff
to review commission comments and come back with a response.
Mr. Greenwood concurred.
24
MINUTES
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 19, 1995
Action:
•.r Moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner
Jonathan, continuing this item to January 16, 1996 by minute
motion. Carried 4-0 .
B. Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance Review
Mr. Drell explained that this had a number of motivations as
mentioned in the report. As well, with the exception of the
last agenda there had been a lull in development activity and
a lot of things that get put off could now be addressed. He
felt that this needed to be done to make sure there is
internal consistency. Now there was also new commissioners
and this would give a good opportunity for them to
familiarize themselves with the code. They also deal with
the California Environmental Quality Act which is constantly
being amended and what they had done with that was annotate
it. It has the code section, the interpretation, and some
verbiage added as to what the lawmakers were trying to
achieve. In ten years when all of us are gone and there is
arguing why there was an 8,000 square foot lot or 5 and 9
foot sideyards, there would be a statement saying what the
intent and purpose was and what we are trying to achieve.
That was why he was proposing that they start at the
beginning and read through it to get familiar with it and ask
if it makes sense and if it what the commission wants to
achieve and if what we want to achieve is a valid function of
government in terms of anti-regulation or questioning the
purpose of regulation and really justifying everything we do
and maybe making things more stringent so that next time we
are asked why the regulation exists, we can say it ' s because
of a specific goal we want to achieve. He said that
initially it would be an educational process . They would
form a committee representing all the various interests in
the city and the building community and commercial community.
A lot of economic development might be for the city to get
out of the way. He said that at this point he was asking the
commission to conceptually endorse the idea and take it to
council .
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner
Fernandez, by minute motion recommended to city council
initiation of a comprehensive zoning ordinance review.
Carried 4-0 .
�r
25
MINUTES
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 19 , 1995
3
C. Discussion on Cancelling the January 2, 1996 meeting
Vice Chairperson Ferguson asked for any discussion on the
item.
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner
Fernandez, cancelling the January 2 , 1996 meeting by minute
motion. Carried 4-0 .
XI . ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ADVISORY COMMITTEE UPDATE
(There was no meeting. )
XII . COMMENTS
None.
XIII . ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner
Jonathan, adjourning the meeting to January 16 , 1996 by
minu motion. Carried 4-0 . The meeting was adjourned at
9 : p m.
�
P ILIP DRELL, Acting Secretary
A4E '
JA ES C. GUS , Vice Chairperson
Pa m Des r P1 ing Commission
/t
26