HomeMy WebLinkAbout0206 MINUTES
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING
TUESDAY - FEBRUARY 6, 1996
7:00 P.M. - CIVIC CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBER
73-510 FRED WARING DRIVE
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I . CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Beaty called the meeting to order at 7 : 00 p.m.
II . PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Commissioner Ferguson led in the pledge of allegiance.
III. ROLL CALL
Members Present: Paul Beaty, Chairperson
Sonia Campbell
James Ferguson
George Fernandez
Sabby Jonathan (arrived after Consent
Calendar)
Members Absent: None
Staff Present: Phil Drell Mark Greenwood
Marshall Rudolph Tonya Monroe
Steve Smith
�"' IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Consideration of the January 16, 1996 meeting minutes .
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner
Ferguson, approving the January 16, 1996 meeting minutes .
Commissioner Ferguson noted that he gave the secretary some
non-substantive changes . Carried 3-0-1 (Commissioner
Fernandez abstained) .
V. SUMMARY OF COUNCIL ACTION:
Mr. Drell summarized pertinent January 25, 1996 city council
actions .
VI . ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
None.
VII . CONSENT CALENDAR
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None.
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VIII . PUBLIC HEARINGS
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A. Case No. CUP 96-2 - MONTEREY LAW CENTER, Applicant
Request for approval of a conditional
use permit to allow conversion and 512
square foot expansion of a single family
residence to an office use in the R-2
zone on the east side of Monterey Avenue
62 feet north of San Gorgonio also known
as 44-712 Monterey Avenue.
Mr. Smith noted that the property was on the east side of
Monterey Avenue, the second lot north of San Gorgonio located
between the existing insurance office on the corner and the
existing law office on the north side. The applicant was
requesting to convert the existing single family dwelling and
make a 512 foot addition, for a total of approximately 1408
square feet. The site would also be developed with six
parking spaces at the rear. In order to accomplish this they
would need to remove the existing carport structure from the
south side of the existing unit. Driveway access would be
provided to the rear. He indicated that this similar formula
has worked adequately for the existing law offices to the
north. The six parking spaces comply with code requirements �
of one parking space per every 250 square feet. The Zoning �
Ordinance permitted offices as a conditional use in the R-2
zone where the property was across the street from
commercially zoned property. This site met that criteria.
As discussed on page 2 of the staff report, staff would have
preferred to develop this site in conjunction with one of the
adjacent properties . That matter was broached with the
property owner to the north; the property owner was not
interested in that she wished to maintain a distinct
separation between the two properties and a matter of privacy
was expressed. There was a letter to that effect in the
report. There was a repetition of the situation to the
north, which has worked adequately, therefore staff felt the
required findings for the approval of the conditional use
could be affirmed. The proposed project is a Class 3
Categorical Exemption for purposes of CEQA. Staff ' s
conclusion was that the proposal was acceptable and
recommended approval subject to the conditions in the draft
resolution. Condition #9 would provide the city with a long-
term opportunity that should either of the adjacent
properties redevelop at some point in the future, at least
then the city would be in a position to require this property
to go along to consolidate driveways . .
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Chairperson Beaty noted that the commission did not receive
'� a copy of the letter from the property owner to the north
(Ms . Nancy Noel) dated January 10, 1996 .
Mr. Smith read the letter into the record (see Exhibit A
attached hereto) .
Commissioner Jonathan asked if Ms . Noel 's project required an
approved conditional use permit. Mr. Smith replied yes .
Commissioner Jonathan asked if Mr. Smith recalled whether
there was discussion at that time regarding the Palma Village
Plan and the potential sharing of the parking facility/
access . Mr. Smith noted that Ms. Noel 's conditional use
permit was processed in 1989, which was B & B Insurance at
that time. Staff came in with a recommendation of denial
because staff felt we weren't getting adequate improvements .
Commission approved the matter and somehow that issue did not
get into the decision.
Chairperson Beaty o ened the public testimony and asked the
applicant to address the commission.
MR. CHARLES MARTIN, 73-733 Highway 111 in Palm Desert,
stated that he was the architect for the pro ject and was
present to answer any questions .
�
Commissioner Jonathan asked if the extension of the building
out towards Monterey Avenue was a necessary design component.
Mr. Martin replied yes, and indicated that he, Ron
Gregory, and Don Bolas all attempted to talk to Ms . Noel
about the proposal . His f irst site plan used Ms . Noel ' s
driveway and they were able to have parking on the
backside and from the left side were able to take the
building back out to where the existing carport was and
pull it more to the south, bu� when they didn't have
that access, they had to redesign it.
Commissioner Jonathan asked if the alternative design with
the access from Ms . Noel ' s property would eliminate the need
to go out front towards Monterey.
Mr. Martin replied that the design would have allowed
them to go around the other way and had a sample of how
that would have been done.
Chairperson Beaty asked if anyone wished to speak in FAVOR or
OPPOSITION to the proposal .
� MS. KIMBERLY WHITE, the property owner of the
residential property to the east of the subject project
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stated that her concern was based on her neighbors who �
lived directly behind Ms . Noel ' s law practice. When �r�l
that project was developed it increased noise and with
the removal of the carport/garage on that property, the
mall and J.C. Penney' s lights, as well as the view, all
changed. Her concern was that the parking lot would be
directly behind her backyard and she wanted a fence line
that would allow her to continue to protect her privacy,
as well as when the carport/garage was removed, that
there wasn' t an increase in noise and the lights from
the mall wouldn't shine into her backyard. That was
what happened to her neighbors behind Ms . Noel ' s law
office.
Commissioner Jonathan clarified that Ms . White was asking for
confirmation that there was a fence between her property and
the subject property.
Ms . White said that she was directly behind the subject
property and right now there was a wooden fence. She
felt that between residences that was fine, but not
between a business and a residence. She suggested that
the fence be higher.
Mr. Smith indicated that condition #6 required that the rear
yard would be enclosed with an appropriate six foot high ,�
masonry block wall . If the wooden fence was on Ms . White' s
property, it would be up to her if she wanted to remove it.
If it was on the applicant' s property, they would remove it.
Commissioner Jonathan asked if that would address Ms . White' s
concerns .
Ms . White stated that she had concerns for between six
and eight feet high because it would be a public parking
lot behind her backyard. She said that she might want
it higher than six feet, although she should go and
measure it before deciding.
Commissioner Jonathan said that some people didn't want it
higher because it became almost oppressive, but they could go
as high as seven feet.
Ms . White said that it was very private right now and
she didn't want anyone looking over the fence into her
backyard. Once it became a commercial property with
people coming and going all the time, it was a concern.
The other concern was when the garage/carport was
removed, the lights and increased noise from Monterey "
Avenue and fram the Palm Desert Town Center could be a '
nuisance. �
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Mr. Drell informed commission that they could condition that
� pending an the neighbor' s wish that the wall could go as high
as seven feet. Also, there were trees opposite where the
carport used to be. He said another condition would be to
provide at least four feet so that trees could grow and Ms .
White could provide some input as to what type of trees she
would like to see planted.
Ms . White indicated that right now along the fence line
there were many large, thick palm trees that provided
some blockage.
Chairperson Beaty asked if Ms. White currently had a view of
the San Gorgonio Mountains .
Ms . White replied yes, and stated that she understood
there wouldn't be a height increase to the building, now
or at any time in the future.
Commissioner Jonathan concurred. He asked if the landscaping
shown on the plan was accurate and if it was one of the
requirements to create the landscaping along that side. Mr.
Smith stated that the plan was not a landscape plan; it did
indicate where some of the existing material was, but there
would be a landscape plan to be approved by the architectural
� review commission.
Commissioner Ferguson noted that condition #7 said that the
trees shown on the site plan, which he read to mean the trees
there now, must be retained under this conditional use permit
and would then be enhanced by a landscaped plan, which would
be approved in the future by the architectural review
commission. Upon questioning by Ms . White, Commissioner
Ferguson indicated that all of the existing trees would be
staying, according to that condition.
Commissioner Jonathan also felt that Ms . White' s concern
regarding lighting would also be addressed in the landscaping
plan, which would receive architectural review commission
approval . He noted that staff could notify Ms . White and he
encouraged her to attend that meeting. The commission would
condition the wall to be six or seven feet high, depending on
the needs of the surrounding residents .
MR. RICHARD STANTON, the resident immediately east of
Nancy Noel 's property, stated that at the time that the
insurance company converted that property, they were
given no input on the decision. They suddenly woke up
one day and found carpenters working over there. They
� chopped the garage out and created a parking area. For
them it meant a tremendous impact on their privacy.
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They have a concrete wall on their property on their ;
side of the fence, but there was never any attempt made �
to equalize the differences in the wall between the two
pieces of property. The property on the east side and
south side was higher at one end, but on the other end,
the north side, it was lower. On the east side and the
south side, they have a five foot wall and they had
about four feet between the ground level on the west
side. When they took the garage out, the Penney' s
parking lot which was about 10-15 feet above their
property, was suddenly full of cars at night with
headlights, plus the increased noise. This was why they
urged their neighbor to try and get as much of a shield
in the back as possible. He was also concerned about
the future relationship that might exist between the two
pieces which would again have an adverse impact on their
property unless they could do something about that back
wall also.
Mr. Drell stated that if that situation ever changed, then
another hearing would be held like this and the city would
have the opportunity to correct any omission that might have
occurred in the past. They would have to come to the city
and apply for something new.
Chairperson Beaty asked if the applicant wished to readdress �
the commission. He did not.
Commissioner Ferguson asked if Mr. Martin had the authority
to make representations on behalf of the client with respect
to the height of the back wall .
Mr. Martin replied yes .
Commissioner Ferguson asked if the applicant could provide a
seven foot wall .
Mr. Martin indicated that when building a six foot wall,
they were building at a block module and in order to go
to seven feet, they have to build another eight inches
and then another four inches . It was conditioned that
there was a block wall back there and they were aware or
that condition.
Commissioner Ferguson stated that he assumed Ms . White would
be willing to work with Mr. Martin and if the wall ended up
being 6 ' 8" , 7 ' 2" or whatever was practical, they could work
that out.
;
Mr. Martin concurred. �
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Ms . White stated that there was a difference in grade
�+ height and the wall might only be 4� feet or five feet
from her side.
Mr. Drell indicated that the wall height could be measured
from the higher side.
Commissioner Ferguson said that speaking for himself, it was
a goal to have uniform development there so that there wasn't
a four foot wall, then an eight foot wall, and six foot wall,
but a uniform wall straight across and mitigation efforts
made for light and sound so as to protect all three of the
properties. The problem was that there was one existing
owner who didn' t want to participate at this point and the
commission had no legal authority to require her to do so,
but a condition had been added which required the present
owner of the subject property and any successors in interest
to agree to any modifications that the commission came up
with to that end. At least at this point the commission was
looking out for Mr. Stanton' s interest, even though they
couldn't do anything tonight.
Chairperson Beaty said it was disturbing that this situation
occurred and it wouldn't happen in the future. He closed the
public testimony and asked for commission comments .
+r..
Commissioner Jonathan asked staff if, since Ms . Noel was
operating pursuant to a conditional use permit, if there was
something the commission could do to influence her decision
about the joint access . Mr. Rudolph replied no, not as long
as she was operating under her conditional use permit as
conditioned. Mr. Drell said that applied also to how she was
operating her business, as long as it wasn't creating a
public nuisance. The existence of that lot in terms of cars
going in and out wasn't a problem. Commissioner Jonathan
asked if there was a general catch-all provision in the CUP
that referred to not interfering with the public good and Ms .
Noel 's unwillingness to cooperate with subsequent development
impacting traffic by making it slow down on Monterey because
of all the driveways and so forth, if could that be
considered non-compliance with that type of provision if it
existed.
Mr. Rudolph said that he was willing to take a look at it,
but didn't think so.
Chairperson Beaty suggested directing staff to revisit that
conditional use permit to see if Ms . Noel ' s conditional use
permit was in compliance.
v..
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FEBRUARY 6 , 1996
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Commissioner Jonathan said that he didn' t want to hold up '
this applicant and was willing to give approval as amended, wI
but suggested that concurrently staff could look at that CUP
and possibly have commission revisit it. This might allow
the commission to improve this situation and to keep Monterey
Avenue from having too many access points, which slowed down
traffic. He felt the commission could approve this
conditional use permit, but then hear back as to whether
there was an opportunity to address the concerns raised and
perhaps the applicant would then be allowed to come back with
the other design. Mr. Rudolph said that the commission could
look at it, but it would be highly doubtful anything could be
done at this time. Mr. Drell stated that there would have to
be some extreme findings .
Commissioner Ferguson stated for the record, that because he
was a firm believer in property rights belonging to the
individual and not to the city, absent of a provision similar
to condition #9 where Ms . Noel would have expressively waived
her right to assert her rights in this area, he didn't want
to do to Ms . Noel what had apparently happened to the
Stantons, which was that the property was adversely affected
with really no choice on her part. He was willing for Mr.
Rudolph to take a look at it, but as a lawyer, unless it was
in black and white, he would vote against "shoe-stringing"
anything in on a general clause of public health and safety. �
Chairperson Beaty asked for a motion.
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner
Campbell, adopting the findings as presented by staff.
Carried 5-0 .
Moved by Commissioner Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner
Fernandez, adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 1718,
approving CUP 96-2, subject to conditions as amended.
Carried 5-0.
B. Case Nos . PP 96-1 and TT 28320 - HOLLY MANAGEMENT, INC. ,
Applicant
Request for approval of a Negative
Declaration of Environmental Impact,
precise plan of design and tentat.ive
tract map for an eight unit residential
condomfnium project for seniors over age
50 to be located at the southeast corner
;
of Catalina Way and San Carlos . ?
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Mr. Smith clarified that the request was for age 50, but in
�•• order to get the parking level that the applicant was
seeking, the ordinance required that they be restricted to
age 55 and over. The conditions would reflect that. Mr.
Smith stated that this was an existing vacant lot at the
corner of San Carlos and Catalina directly across the street
from the Senior Center. To the east it backed onto the
backyards of single family units . To the south was an
existing single family unit and to the west across San Carlos
was another existing senior apartment complex. The units
were proposed at 1252 square feet with two bedrooms and two
baths, and would be single story. Amenities include a six
foot lap pool, private rear yards and onsite RV parking for
two RVs . Access is from Catalina and the site would be
enclosed by a four foot wall and would be gated at Catalina.
Each unit would have one single car garage, plus one
uncovered driveway parking space. Architectural review
granted preliminary architectural approval with some minor
modifications . The project complied with the code
requirements for the R-2 zone as shown in the staff report.
He noted that typical condominiums have a requirement of two
covered spaces plus a half space for visitor parking. Using
the senior overlay zoning, the applicant could seek a
requirement for the 1 .25 spaces per unit of which one was
covered, which he complies with. All units have one plus
�+ one. Findings for approval of the precise plan could be
affirmed. Findings could also be affirmed for the tentative
map. The purpose of the tentative map was to allow for the
project to become condominium units . There would be eight
individual lots plus three common lots for the driveway
areas, landscape areas, and pool area for common maintenance.
A Negative Declaration was included in the commission packet.
Staff felt the application was consistent with the secondary
plan for the area and recommended approval as submitted.
Commissioner Ferguson requested clarification on page 2,
Section D called "Coverage" with the ordinance requirement
being at 50� and the project at 34� . Mr. Smith explained
that was the percentage of the lot allowed to be covered by
building with 50� being the maximum, although staff had never
seen a request for more then about 40�-42� . Building was
defined as enclosed physical space.
Commissioner Jonathan said that he was surprised to see a
four foot wall instead of a six foot wall and asked if there
was a standard. Mr. Smith replied that six feet was the
maximum, but there was no minimum. Conceivably they didn't
have to put one up at all . Commissioner Jonathan asked where
code required an applicant to do a wall; Mr. Smith indicated
` that it was when adjacent to open parking areas in commercial
districts--it either had to be walled, bermed or planted ta
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 6, 1996
screen within a two year period to an effective height of at "
least 36 inches . That goal was also pursued for residential ..r/
projects . Commissioner Jonathan asked if this was the same
site that was previously approved as a senior housing pro ject
a few years ago. Mr. Drell said there was a 13 unit
apartment project by Cable & Rylee, the same people who were
originally going to do the senior housing project.
Commissioner Jonathan asked if it was a different owner now;
Mr. Drell concurred.
Chairperson Beaty o_ pened the public testimony and asked the
applicant to address the commission.
MR. JIM HOLLICKY, the principal of Holly Management,
stated that he was present to answer questions, but
wanted to clarify the question on the fencing. Their
plans were for six foot high fencing for about the bulk
of the perimeter except along San Carlos, where it would
be four feet high within 15 feet of the street.
Commissioner Campbell asked if this would be a gated
community. Mr. Hollicky concurred.
Chairperson Beaty asked if anyone wished to address the
commission in FAVOR or OPPOSITION to the proposal . There was '
no one and the public testimony was closed. Chairperson �
Beaty asked for comments from the commission.
Commissioner Ferguson stated that he liked this project. He
drove through the neighborhood and took note of the Senior
Center, the neighborhood and the grading of the lot and felt
this was a good location for this type of project. He
reviewed the blueprints of the plan as well and welcomed this
project into Palm Desert.
Commissioner Jonathan concurred and felt this would be a nice
addition, was in the right part of town, and was nice
project.
Commissioner Campbell agreed with Commissioners Ferguson and
Jonathan stating that the area was nice for this type of
project.
Chairperson Beaty asked if there was a problem with the
difference in age of 50 versus 55 . Mr. Smith clarified that
in order to achieve the parking that the applicant is
requesting, the ordinance requires the age limit to be 55
years . �
Commissioner Fernandez also agreed with comments made �
previously. He felt it would be a good addition.
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Chairperson Beaty concurred and asked for a motion.
r.r
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Ferguson, seconded by Commissioner
Campbell, adopting the findings as presented by staff.
Carried 5-0 .
Moved by Commissioner Ferguson, seconded by Commissioner
Campbell, adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 1719,
approving PP 96-1 and TT 28320, subject to conditions .
Carried 5-0 .
C. Case No. ZOA 95-3 - CITY OF PALM DESERT, Applicant
Request for approval of amendments to
the sign ordinance to regulate signs at
mini bank branches and attempt to
establish size criteria for signs having
more than three colors .
Mr. Smith stated that this matter started out as what staff
thought was a fairly straight forward attempt at regulating
the additional signage that was being seen at supermarkets
where they were bringing in mini-bank branches and whether
they should have to have people there to serve the public
'` like at Union Bank where they have five or six employees . He
visited the site several times and there were always people
there. Bank of America at Lucky' s at Country Club and
Monterey had three people there most of the time and had a
long line of customers . Visiting the Von' s on Highway 111
where the initial request for signage came from, he visited
it four or five times and saw one person one time and that
person was putting cash in the ATM, but didn't look like he
was prepared to act like a teller. Notwithstanding where
they originally started going with this, staff came back to
the existing situation where the city allows businesses to
have, in addition to their main sign identification, they
were allowed to identify two products or services if they had
sign area available to support that. That came about three
or four years ago when the business was Sports Fever and they
wanted to identify most of the products in the store and city
council had staff prepare an ordinance amendment at that time
where they limited the items to two. Effectively, that was
what staff was saying for mini-bank branches . That if there
was available signage under that portion of the ordinance
(i .e. goods and services available onsite) , then they would
be able to put up mini-bank branch signs provided that the
signs are: a) clearly ancillary of the main business signage,
b) that the overall aggregate sign area limit is not
` exceeded, and 3) that the design of the signs is consistent
with the existing program to the satisfaction of the
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architectural review commission. This then got staff to a �
problem that had recently arisen with trademark registered �ri
signs where certain laws have passed that entitled those
people to the colors in their signs, regardless of what the
city' s sign program might say. The federal law that gives
them this right did not necessarily give them the right to
have a size that they might otherwise want. The city
attorney' s of f ice worked on this and came up with language as
shown in the staff report which effectively said that if an
applicant was going to use colors that were outside of the
approved sign program or if there was a sign with more than
three colors in it and they were getting it because it was a
registered trademark sign, then the ci�y was at liberty to
reduce the size of that sign. Staff was suggesting a
reduction of 20`k for every color beyond three. That matter
reflected back into the first mini-bank branch because a
couple of the banks have signs that were registered
trademarks . What was before the commission in the end result
was shown in Exhibit A of the draft resolution and that was
what staff was recommending �o commission. If commission
felt the reduced size for extra colors was excessive, staff
was open to other percentages .
Mr. Drell noted that staff brought the mini-bank issue to the #
city council for their initiation and consideration. Council �
itself initiated the amendment relative to the provision for �
trademark signs, which came up in reference to a lawsuit that
was about to be filed at that time. They gave staff and the
city attorney specific instruction to come up with an
ordinance to give them special consideration.
Commissioner Fernandez stated that due to a conflict of
interest, being a store manager for Von's, he would be
abstaining from this matter.
Commissioner Ferguson said that as he understood it the
resolution the commission would be adopting didn't change the
existing ordinance with respect to ancillary signs for
listing goods and services on existing properties .
Basically, a business was allotted what they were allotted
and if the business chose to let a mini-bank branch use part
of the existing allowable signage, that was their decision.
Mr. Smith concurred, as long as it did not exceed the two
goods and services and/or other businesses . Commissioner
Ferguson felt this was similar to a previous case regarding
�he situation in the Palms to Pines center on their monument
signs and whether the commission was going to grant an
exception. At that time he felt it was between TGI Friday' s �
and Von' s whether they would let them have a piece of their
one monument sign or not. This seemed similar. He wanted to
clarify that basically they were not changing the ordinance
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with respect to what they get, and if they wanted to reach an
� agreement to put signage up, that was when the new resolution
would apply. The new resolution said that having reached
that conclusion, there should be size and color restrictions .
Federal law prohibits the city from modifying federal
trademarks . Commissioner Ferguson asked where the 20� number
came from; staff indicated they discussed at length what the
appropriate number was and at this time was recommending 20�,
but staff could be comfortable with the 15� . Commissioner
Ferguson asked if staff had consulted with any potentially
effected parties to see if the 20$ was at all reasonable.
Mr. Smith replied no, not with respect to the trademark
signs. He indicated that they put in a provision that where
architectural review specifically finds that the proposed
sign is desirable due to its quality, uniqueness, design or
other features, that they could waive the reduction
requirement. Mr. Drell clarified that they weren' t allowed
a reduction to 20�, they were allowed 80� of what they would
have. The goal was to provide some diminution without it
being excessive. Commissioner Ferguson said that he was
wondering from a legal point of view on a municipality' s
ability to restrict commercial advertising based on colors
and relating it to size. Under the resolution, basically the
city would preclude signs based on the number of colors only,
absent architec�.ural review commission's giving approval . He
'� had some problem with that. Mr. Rudolph stated that they
could have as many colors as they wanted, it was just that if
they were going to do that, the idea was that a certain size
allowed in the ordinance was premised on the understanding
that there would be a maximum of a certain number of colors
in the sign. They would be allowed to add as many colors as
they wanted to that--the resulting visual "clutter" was not
what that size was premised on and required some diminution
in size to offset the visual impact. Staff ' s suggestion of
20� seemed appropriate and that would be a policy decision
and that was for the commission and council to decide.
Commissioner Ferguson said that the legal question was if
someone had more than five additional colors, they were down
to zero percent because it was reduced five times by 20�,
leaving nothing. Mr. Drell said that was right if the city
decided the colors were objectionable. In the past the
council has exercised reason in granting or denying
exceptions, even before trademarks became an issue. One
example was the Elephant Bar for pictorial displays where
having appropriate colors was essential to actually depict
what they wanted to depict. Council approved it. They also
once approved a very elaborate sign that had an old fisherman
with a sea gull on his shoulder and it probably had 20
different colors because it was a painted sculpture. They
� have shown in the past that they were not arbitrary in making
these judgements . The architectural review board is
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;
�
comprised of professional design people to make the �
determination. If the determination is that it is contrary
to the intent of the sign ordinance, they could have it, but
it would be at a diminished size. Mr. Rudolph said that
prior to this issue of trademarks there was just a cutoff for
the number of colors and that was defensible, but in allowing
more colors, the rules had to be across the board for
everyone. He said that the city could do a lower percentage.
Commissioner Ferguson used as an example a federally
registered trademark with seven or eight colors . Under the
ordinance they would not be allowed to use it. Mr. Drell
explained that it was 20�, then 20� of the balance, and then
20� of that. It would never go to zero, it would always be
20$ of something. Commissioner Ferguson said that he thought
staff ineant that the 20� was of the baseline. Mr. Drell said
that was the way they had to determine it, otherwise
Commissioner Ferguson would be correct and they would end up
with zero signage. It would be a reverse compounding
interest. Mr. Rudolph said that there was no intent to have
that effect. Commissioner Ferguson stated that he just
wanted to make that clear. Chairperson Beaty also indicated
that there was an avenue for appeal, so this was a good
starting point. Commissioner Ferguson stated that he was �
prepared to support the proposal with that clarification. >
,
�
Commissioner Campbell noted that most bank logos only had two
colors . Commissioner Ferguson said that the problem was that
they were talking about all federally registered trademarks
and all ancillary services and goods. Banks was the vehicle
that brought it to the city' s attention, but per Mr. Smith
this was a blanket resolution (to be ordinance} that would
effect everyone. Mr. Drell said that it would also effect a
sign that was only two colors, if they were two colors that
were not included in the sign program. It applied both to
colors in one sign and colors in excess of the approved
colors within a sign program.
Commissioner Jonathan asked if someone had three colors or
less, they could still face a diminution if they were not
within the prescribed color scheme. Mr. Drell concurred.
Commissioner Jonathan said that the formula they would end
with was basically a multiplication by 80� each time of
numbers exceeded, rather than a flat out 20� reduction. Mr.
Drell concurred that it would be a 20� reduction of the
previous product.
Commissioner Ferguson said that if he had a one color �
violation, the size went from 20 feet to 16 feet. If he had
another offense, then he would go to 80� of 16 feet; the next �
offense would be 80� of 80� of 16 feet. Chairperson Beaty
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 6, 1996
asked if that was what the ordinance said. Mr. Drell said
� that it should be amended to clarify that. Commissioner
Ferguson said that since this was a recommendation to city
council, he was not sure 20� made sense. It seemed to be the
type of thing that they should get comments on. He was leery
to grab a number out of the air and enforce it against all
businesses, goods and services . Mr. Rudolph stated that it
was a policy decision, but was also an aesthetic decision.
Mr. Drell said that theoretically a decision of the
architectural commission could be to make it only 10� .
Commissioner Ferguson said that it would make sense if
architects were saying to him that based on aesthetics, this
made sense as opposed to just picking 20� and using it. Mr.
Smith stated that 20� was the maximum. If someone went to
ARC with a four color sign, commission could require only a
10$ reduction if the contrast was not excessive. The premise
of the ordinance was that they wanted to limit contrast.
Commissioner Jonathan noted that this was a vehicle to
mitigate excessive contrast. Mr. Smith concurred and said
that if it was going to have a lot of contrast, they would
diminish the size of the sign more, unless it was
aestheticaily desirable. Mr. Drell clarified that 20� was
the maximum reduction per sign color in excess of three.
Commissioner Campbell asked if the sign would still have to
be approved by the architectural commission. Mr. Drell said
` that theoretically if it was a trademark sign, and the
architectural commission felt it was unacceptable and saw no
redeeming value in the sign, they had no choice but to
approve it if it was a federally registered trademark sign.
If it was not a federally registered trademark, they could
simply deny it or apply the maximum 20$ . If it was a
federally registered trademark, the commission had no
discretion on whether or not to approve it. Mr. Smith
indicated that the ordinance formerly said that the sign
should not exceed three colors . It was almost that black and
white. Now they have removed the three color limit, but for
additional colors they would get less size.
Commissioner Ferguson asked if there was ongoing litigation
or if it had been resolved. Mr. Drell indicated that it was
settled.
Chairperson Beaty opened the public testimony and asked if
anyone wished to speak in FAVOR or OPPOSITION to ZOA 95-3 .
There was no one and the public testimony was closed.
Chairperson Beaty asked for further comments or a motion.
Commissioner Jonathan stated that he reviewed the staff
report quite carefully because he thought this was going to
� be a controversial issue and he was impressed on how it was
handled by staff. He also liked staff ' s solution. It was an
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 6 , 1996
'
attempt to mitigate the impact of excessive contrast, which �
has been an issue that needed to be dealt with from time to �
time. This was an effective way to do that. He liked the
20� number and felt it made sense. He stated that he was
prepared to move for approval .
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner
Campbell, adopting the findings as presented by staff.
Carried 4-0-1 (Commissioner Fernandez abstained) .
Moved by Commissioner Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner
Campbell, adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. Z720,
recommending to city council approval of ZOA 95-3 as amended.
Carried 4-0-1 (Commissioner Fernandez abstained) .
IX. MISCELLANEOUS
A. Request for a determination of use to allow a bank in
the service industrial zone.
Mr. Drell noted that the applican� was present. The
commission had a letter requesting a determination by the
commission to give him the ability to apply for a conditional �
use permit for a bank in the service industrial zone, which j
currently did not list banks as a use. It did list ancillary �
services to the benefit of the surrounding area, so there was
some legal room. On the basis of that statement restaurants,
sandwich shops and convenience stores have been approved
which were designed to provide services to the industrial
employees in that area. The commission was not approving the
use tonight. Staff would still have to go through an
analysis to make sure it had the right amount of parking,
etc. , but the determination would allow him to apply for a
conditional use permit.
Mr. Smith read the verbiage for that section as follows
(Section 25 . 34 .020 L) : "The planning commission may, by
resolution, permit other uses which are similar and no more
objectionable than those enumerated in this section. " Mr.
Drell said that the section under accessory uses also applied
(Section 25 . 34 . 040 B) , "Incidental services for employees on
a site occupied by a permitted or conditional use. " Previous
determinations had been made that a use would primarily serve
employees or customers already in a specific area.
Chairperson Beaty asked if the applicant would like to
address the commission. Commissioner Jonathan noted that �
there wasn't really an applicant and the commission was not �
addressing a specific location or proposal . �
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MR. LYNN MARKROFF, representing Bank of the Desert, the
'` entity making the request for the determination, said
that in reviewing the industrial area, he could tell
that over a period of years the area' s service
industrial nature had changed as a result of other
applications for conditional use permits, particularly
the commercial buildings located closer to the
intersection of Hovley and Cook Street. The nature and
original designation appeared to have changed over the
years as that area developed and was upgraded. He felt
their particular service was of a particular benefit to
the industrial, business retail, and other service-type
businesses located in that general area. Their emphasis
would be to service tha� area as their primary clientele
base. He felt this would be a good location and service
to that aspect of the Palm Desert business community.
He said that he could go into comments about the site,
but didn' t think that was appropriate now.
Chairperson Beaty asked if this was the unit that was
previously occupied by a furniture store. Mr. Markroff
concurred. Chairperson Beaty, taking a superficial look at
the concept, asked if parking was going to be a problem,
noting that it was a big concern of the commission. Mr.
Markroff replied no, that as he recalled the city required
"r one parking space for every 200 square feet for a bank
facility and the landlord designated 16 parking spaces based
on 3,000 square feet, so they met that code requirement. The
bank staff intended to use other parking facilities so that
area would be left relatively free for the business community
and other staff that might use the facility in the normal
conduct of commercial business .
Chairperson Beaty noted that he has an office in that area
and felt that corner was bad, but where the furniture store
was there didn' t seem to be a problem. He stated that he
would not have a problem with the determination of use.
Commissioner Campbell also said that she was in favor of the
determination of use. She felt those businesses in that area
needed a bank closer.
Commissioner Jonathan said that he didn't want to get into a
discussion about any particular site, but indicated that
parking and traffic circulation would be major issues because
there were already existing problems . Other than the
specific site issue, he felt it was a logical extension of
the service industrial zone and would not have a problem with
the determination.
rr.�
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMIS5ION
FEBRUARY 6, 1996
+
�
Action: �
Moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner �
Ferguson, by minute motion determining that a bank would be
an allowable use in the Service Industrial zone with approval
of a conditional use permit. Carried 5-0 .
X. ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ADVISORY COMMITTEE UPDATE
Commissioner Campbell summarized January 18, 1996 EDAC
actions . She noted that four motions were made: 1) for the
city to act as a catalyst in assisting businesses in the City
of Palm Desert; 2) immediately identify vacant areas and
contact individuals in the following key business districts:
111 Town Center, Palms to Pines center, the Highway 111
corridor, E1 Paseo and Cook Street; 3) immediately contact
lenders to obtain pertinent information for immediate
dissemination to the business community; and 4 ) support the
general concept of the business expansion and retention plan
and recommend to city council for approval . EDAC recommended
for this program to go forward.
XI . COMMENTS
1 . Commissioner Jonathan said that he has been working with :
the staf f on a soccer matter and it was a pleasure; they ,
were a professional, helpful staff and that every once �i
in a while they should pause and appreciate them.
Specifically, it has been Jeff Winklepleck and Phil
Drell .
2 . Commissioner Campbell asked why the planning commission
didn' t have a liaison for the Section 4 Steering
Committee. Mr. Drell said that it was redevelopment
agency committee. He said it was basically a staff
committee, except for Dave Tschopp who was from EDAC and
possibly one other. He noted he only recently became a
member of the committee. It was basically a staff
committee with some council members in their capacity as
board members of the redevelopment agency. It was a
project of the redevelopment agency. If the commission
desired to have a member on the committee, that request
could be forwarded to Carlos Ortega. He said it was
really like a private project that was being pursued by
the redevelopment agency. He noted that the golf course
was going to be on the council agenda for some of the
first construction items to go to bid. At this point it
was already designed and was moving ahead. He said
another committee the commission might want to
participate in was the Project Area 4 committee. This �
was for the Palm Desert Country Club area where the city �
initiated a specific plan/redevelopment plan, which was
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 6, 1996
more of an ongoing planning related committee.
+� Commissioner Campbell noted that these meetings have
been going on for some time. Commissioner Ferguson felt
it would be a great idea. Mr. Drell said that the
Project Area 4 committee was just beginning and out of
it would come a specific plan. When the city annexed
Palm Desert Country Club, the existing County zoning was
adopted. What they would now do was examine that zoning
to make sure it was appropriate. He asked if someone
was interested in participating. Commissioner Campbell
felt that since the planning commission voted to approve
the golf course, that a member should participate. Mr.
Drell noted that the commission could not confuse their
regulatory function. He also noted that council is also
the redevelopment agency and acts sometimes as an
applicant and as city council, which was the regulatory
. body for that same project. The planning commission was
the regulatory body and would never be the applicant.
Commissioner Ferguson said that the issue Commissioner
Campbell was touching upon was that he personally didn' t
want to just show up at planning commission meetings and
pass on agenda items when he felt they had a
responsibility and opportunity to integrate planning
function with other functions within the city, and one
area that particularly concerned him was what the
` redevelopment agency was doing. It was awkward when the
commission was handed a RDA project because the city was
the applicant, but the city was the ultimate appeal and
the commission was in between, which was not always a
comfortable situation ( i .e. the restaurant on Portola} .
Any opportunity the commission had to participate in
projects of particularly that magnitude he would
definitely join Commissioner Campbell in letting
whomever know that the commission was interested.
Commissioner Jonathan agreed with that statement, but
indicated that Section 4 (meaning the North Sphere) was
not relevant to that comment because the aspect of the
North Sphere that was relevant to the commission has
already been done. The layout of Section 4 was
determined and did go through the Planning Commission.
As far as being involved in the process that RDA goes
through, sure, but in the North Sphere case Planning
Commission's work was done. Commissioner Campbell said
that would let them know what things were going on.
Commissioner Ferguson noted that a couple of ineetings
ago CVAG, their Executive Director and Corky Larson,
were present to seek the commission' s comments on what
the Planning Commission would do with the valley over
� the next 24 years . Subsequent to that he was asked by
Councilmember Benson to attend a CVAG meeting to discuss
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 6, 1996
this issue, which was a six hour meeting at Bighorn held
a week ago last Monday. It touched peripherally on many
planning issues as far as Palm Desert was concerned, but
also touched on a lot of issues like transportation. He
said the overall consensus of those present ( including
council members throughout the nine communities, their
mayors, city managers and supervisors) at this meeting
essentially concluded that they could sit around and
come up with a big wish list like clean water, clean
air, quality education, career opportunities, middle
income jobs, but to accomplish this they had to
determine what kind of business they wanted to stimulate
the valley's economy, which involved taking a look
comprehensively valley-wide at where the industrial
zones are and putting together a mechanism to accomplish
that. Also that a body be created to provide (whether
through a joint powers authority or otherwise) a valley-
wide economic development body that would utilize
planning commissioners from the nine communities,
economic development people, that some sort of
comprehensive valley-wide plan be put together. It
seemed that there was genuine interest and that economic
development was number one on their list of priorities .
He felt that Councilmember Jean Benson, who was
spearheading the project, did a wonderful job. He
wanted to use that as an example of what they could be
doing as planning commissioners and that Commissioner
Campbell 's comments were very well taken by him.
4 . Mr. Drell noted that the joint meeting with the City
Council/Planning Commission/Economic Development
Advisory Committee had been scheduled for April 18 at
4 : 00 p.m. in the Administrative Conference Room.
XII . ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Ferguson, seconded by Commissioner
Campbell, adjourning the meeting to February 20, 1996 by
minute motion. Carried 5-0 . The meeting was adjourned at
8 : 18 p.m.
.�---� .
PHILIP DRELL, cting Secretary
ATTEST:
. C,-.il_ � .
PAUL BEATY, Chairpers
Palm Desert Planning Commission
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