HomeMy WebLinkAbout0604 MINUTES
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING
TiJESDAY - JUNE 4, 19 9 6
7 :00 P.M. - CIVIC CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBER
73-510 FRED WARING DRIVE
1r„�r * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
I . CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Beaty called the meeting to order at 7 : 04 p.m.
II . PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Commissioner Ferguson led in the pledge of allegiance.
III . ROLL CALL
Members Present: Paul Beaty, Chairperson
Sonia Campbell
Jim Ferguson
George Fernandez
Sabby Jonathan
Members Absent: None
Staff Present: Phil Drell Steve Sa�ith
Marshall Rudolph Tonya Monroe
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
ir..
Consideration of the May 21, 1996 Meeting m�inutes .
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner
Ferguson, approving the 3une 4, 1996 meeting minutes as
submitted. Carried 5-0 . ,
V. $UMMARY OF COUNCIL ACTION:
Mr. Drell summarized pertinent May 23, 199b city council
actions .
VI. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
None.
VII . CONSENT CALENDAR
None.
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MINUTES
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
JUNE 4, 1996
VIII . PUBLIC HEARINGS „�,,
A. Continued Case No. CUP 96-16 - MONTEREY PARTNERS, LTD. ,
Applicant
Request for approval of a conditional
use permit to allow the operation of a
1575 square foot Togo' s sandwiches/
salads restaurant with sale of beer and
wine in an existing building in the
Plaza de Monterey center at the
southeast corner of Monterey Avenue and
Country Club Drive.
Mr. Smith noted that this matter was before Planning
Commission on May 7, 1996 when it was continued to today. At
that time the commission heard from area residents who
expressed concerns about the existing operation of the
restaurant in this center and the possible impact from an
additional restaurant on the adjacent residential community.
Mr. Smith noted that on page 1 of the staff report staff
outlined seven issues that were raised. Since the last ;
commission meeting staff inet with Mr. Spinello. As well, he '
had spoken with him on the telephone several times . In those
meetings and telephone conversations Mr. Spinello committed �,,
to staff that it was his intent to mitigate the concerns . In
talking with him yesterday, staff learned that Togo ' s has
withdrawn. Although the applicant didn't have Togo' s, staff
wished to proceed with a possible restaurant use meeting the
criteria that was set up for Togo 's so that if Mr. Spinello
could come up with another restaurant tenant for this
location that could operate without cooking on the site, with
no more than the number of patrons or seats allotted, and if
they could live with all the conditions set up, then it
shouldn't be any more objectionable and perhaps they could
avoid losing another tenant in the future if in fact he is
able to find one that can live with those criteria. He
indicated that Mr. Sp3nello wished to address the commission
as to how he has addressed the problems tha� were brought
forward and how he intend� to address them into the future.
Staff recommended in favor of the request although there was
no actual tenant. -
Commissioner Jonathan asked about the mechanics of that
recommendation because the request was for a conditianal use
permit specifically for Togo' s . He asked if they could just
change the language. Mr. Drell concurred. Mr. Smith said
that staff would delete any reference to Togo 's specifically.
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JUNE 4, 1996
'� Commissioner Ferguson noted that this was similar to the
commission's approval of the conditional use permit for the
Redevelopment Agency property at the northeast corner of
Highway 111 and Portola Avenue as a restaurant related use
with no specific tenant. Mr. Smith agreed. Mr. Drell
indicated that the city theoretically didn' t approve specific
tenants, but the activity the business was engaged in.
Chairperson Beaty noted that the public hearing was still
open and asked if the applicant wished to address the
commission.
MR. SAM SPINELLO informed commission that they did lose
their tenant that they started out with originally and
he didn't have a replacement tenant yet. There was no
one on the immediate horizon to occupy this space in
this capacity, but in going through all the steps here
he wanted to leave the commission with the feeling that
they were a group that when they set out to work on
things they diligently worked to accomplish the goals
and change the problems . Looking at the seven items
that were of issue and going through them, he felt they
had been extremely successful in six of the items . They
still had some work to do on item four. He introduced
"� his Director of Property Management, Ms . Darcy Durhler,
whom he said was largely responsible for fixing the
problems . She handled the problems with the noise and
the sweeper. He felt she had also been very successful
in doing so and indicated that Mr. Schr2iber was at the
meeting tonight to soeak in support. He asked the
commission for approval of the conditional use permit so
that if he found a tenant that fit in with the criteria
they could proceed.
Commissioner Jonathan asked Mr. Spinello about the condition
of the landscaping at the center. The project-. started out
with really nice landscaping on the corner of. Monterey and
Country Club and over the yea.r.0 it has deter?orated to where
there was now basically di-t. He asked if thPre were plans
to �mprove that situati�n. Mr. Drell. noted that he was out
there this afternoon and saw a hydro sePder planting
something. Ms . Durhler stated that they would soon be
planting grass . She said that the plants were trimmed up and
sonie plants were moved since the spriz�klers didn't reach
certain areas . The original desert landscape theme didn't
work because it wasn't irrigated with a drip system and
didn't have desert gold on top of it. They also had a lot of
gazanias that the gofers loved and they ate them all up.
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
JUNE 4, 1996
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I
Their budget allowed them to plant rye and they came back �
today to begin the process that they could now keep
maintained.
Chairperson Beaty asked if anyone wished to speak in FAVOR or
OPPOSITION to the proposal .
MR. BOB SCHREIBER stated that they had met with the
shopping center managers . Since the last Planning
Commission meeting they have been very pleased with the
proqress that has been made at the center. The delivery
hours have noticeably been changed, the sweepers have
come at a reasonable hour (i .e. 9 : 00-9 : 30 a.m. ) . The
difference was like night and day and they finally have
some quiet enjoyment of their property. This morning
with the hydro seed they breached the deal by starting
at 6 : 30 a.m. , although he understood that it was a once
in a many year deal . He stated that he understood that
the center delivery hours were between 8 : 00 a.m. and
9 : 00 p.m. To the extent they are able to hold them
within those hours, especially within even more
reasonable hours, they seemed to be willing to do that
and had been doing that for the past month. It has been
noticeably different and he was pleased with that.
Except for the "trip up" that morning, the only problem �
was the bus boys and waiters turning on their boom boxes
at the same time every night when they get off work,
which makes his house shake. The managers of the
restaurants were the ones that needed to be communicated
with and he felt those managers should communicate with
the employees . He said that he has tried talking
directly with the managers but didn't get very far.
That was the last issue that was a constant. Everything
else had been very reasonable. They were pleased and
they hoped it would continue and hoped that any type of
approvals that were passed would incorporate or
reiterate the fact that these regulations needed to be
respected. They wanted a viable center there and
enjoyed it very much. A healthy center was a good
center.
Chairperson Beaty closed the public hearing and asked for
commission comments or action.
Commissioner Jonathan expressed his appreciation to the
applicant for doing the right thing and on a job well done.
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
JUNE 4, 1996
""' Commissioner Campbell stated that she would be in favor of
the conditional use permit for any restaurant that was
similar to Togo's and complied with the conditions .
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner
Fernandez, approving the findings as presented by staff.
Carried 5-0 .
Moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner
Fernandez, adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 1745,
approving CUP 96-16, subject to amendment. Carried 5-0 .
B. Case No. CUP 01-82 Amendment No. 3 - FOUNDATION FOR THE
RETARDED OF THE DESERT, Applicant
Request for approval of an amendment to
the existing conditional use permit to
allow Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) to
utilize the assembly hall in the main
building at 73-255 Country Club Drive on
Sundays from 7 :00 a.m. to 10 : 00 a.m. and
""' on Thursday evenings from 7 : 00 p.m.
until 9 : 00 p.m. , and to permit Calvary
Chapel to hold services on Sunday
between 11 : 00 a.m. and 12 : 30 p.m.
Mr. Smith indicated that the project was at the southeast
corner of Sagewood and Country Club Drive. The Foundation of
the Retarded facility has access points on the east side of
the property onto Country Club Drive and onto Sagewood from
the west side of the property. Parking is provided on the
north, west and south sides of the building. For some time
now the Foundation of the Retarded has permitted Alcoholics
Anonymous and Calvary Church to operate on the site. It came
to staff 's attention through a complaint that was received in
February and staff turned it over to Code Compliance.
Eventually the city received the application before the
commission now. Mr. Smith noted that staff circulated the
letter of application that was not included in the packet, as
well as a letter that was received yesterday from Hiroshi
Fukuda at 40-021 Sagewood objecting to AA at this location.
When staff received the original complaint it was with
respect to people parking on the strest on Sunday mornings .
On Sunday, May 19, Mr. Smith visited the site between 8 :45
a.m. and 11 : 30 a.m. to observe the parking situation. The
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JUNE 4, 1996
9 : 00 a.m. AA session was extremely popular. The parking lot �1
was 11 spaces over the maximum, plus there were five cars
that flowed into the Kenny Rogers lot, which was not a
problem because they were not open, and there were 13 cars
parked on both sides of Sagewood. He did not observe the
7 : 00 a.m. AA session. The letter of application indicated
that these morning sessions have 80-90 people attending. The
11 :00 a.m. Calvary Chapel had fewer cars . Staff counted 16
vehicles, excluding the Foundation vehicles . There were a
considerable number of vacant spaces and he didn't foresee a
problem with that use. With respect to Thursday nights,
staff hadn't observed the parking situation there then,
however, Kenny Rogers has an agreement with the Foundation to
allow overflow parking to use the Foundation parking lot and
in the letter from the Foundation they indicated that between
40-50 people attend the Thursday evening session. Staff
would anticipate that there would be some conflict between
the two uses in that they both have their peak hours around
7 : 00 p.m. Staff noted that with the people attending the
9 : 00 a.m. AA session that car doors were being slammed shut,
loud radios were playing and there was several vehicles which
exited through the Sagewood community. Staff didn't contact
the AA people because staff didn't know who the contact
people were and while this is a very worthwhile group and a
place needed to be found for them to operate, staff ' s concern �
was that they are too successful for the location that they
occupy. This is a facility with 57 parking spaces, but every
car he observed had a single occupant. If they were having
70, 80 or 90 people attending their sessions, then they need
a parking lot with 70, 80 or 90 parking spaces . If there was
some way to limit the number of people attending the various
sessions of AA, then perhaps they could continue to operate
here, but he didn't know how that could be accomplished and
was not familiar enough with the organization to know how
they could limit the number of people attending. In an
effort to try and work with them, staff was suggesting that
if the CUP for AA was rejected, then AA be granted a
temporary use permit to operate on Sundays and Thursdays
through the summer until September 8, 1996 in order to allow
them a transition period to relocate to another location.
The request was broken into two: one was for the church use
on Sundays between 10:30 a.m. and 12 :30 p.m. Staff was
recommending in favor of that subject to the conditions in
the resolution which included all the previously related
conditions for the previously approved conditional uses .
Staff was suggesting that they only be able to operate here
as long as their average attendance does not exceed 30
persons and that the hours of operation be between 10 : 30 a.m.
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
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"�" and 12 : 30 p.m. on Sundays. In the matter of the second part
of the application for AA, staff was suggesting that the
commission reject the request in that staff didn't feel that
finding number two could be made, which was that the proposed
location of the conditional use permit and the conditions
under which it will be operated and maintained will not be
detrimental to public health, safety, or general welfare or
be materially injurious to properties or improvements in the
vicinity. When a church use was approved and there was a
requirement of one parking space for every three seats, there
were families going to church and staff has found that to be
an acceptable parking level. When there was a use where
almost 100$ of the people arrive individually, then they
needed a site with far greater available parking. In staff ' s
estimation, the commission could not make the findings for
condition #2 . Staff was reluctantly recommending that
Planning Commission deny the application for AA due to the
parking inadequacy for the size of the group that they serve
at this location.
Commissioner Ferguson asked if the city had ever, prior to
sending out the notice, received a complaint about AA
operatinq in this location. Mr. Smith replied no. The
complaint call that he received in February was relative to
`�"' the church operating at similar hours to Kenny Rogers .
Commissioner Ferguson asked for and received clarification
that approximately 75 notices about this hearing were mailed.
Commissioner Ferguson asked if Mr. Schreiber, who was present
for the last hearing item who Iives across the street from
this building, was mailed a notice; Mr. Smith said yes .
Chairperson Beaty asked about the recommendation that the
church be restricted to 30 persons, while allowing 40 persons
for a limited AA operation who apparently had more cars . Mr.
Smith said that the number 30 was arbitrary and could be
higher. Staff noted that while there were 57 parking spaces
on the site, there were not 57 available in that the
Foundation stores vehicles there over the weekends . As well,
there was constructian activity going on at the south end
which was taking some parking spaces, so 40 was equally as
valid as 30 .
Commissioner Ferguson noted that on page 2 of the staff
report Mr. Smith indicated that there were 13 cars parked on
Sagewood. He asked if those cars were parked illegally,
blocking driveways or otherwise causing a problem. Mr. Smith
replied no. Commissioner Ferguson indicated that the site
was allowed to have 74 trainees and up to a maximum of 24
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JLJNE 4, 19 9 6
employees, which was almost 100 people. He asked if the 57 .r
space parking was adequate for them. Mr. Smith explained
that the trainees arrived by shuttle and didn't drive.
Mr. Farmer from Foundation of the Retarded clarified
that all the individuals arriving at the Foundation were
physically or mentally retarded and arrived by public
transportation. They didn't drive vehicles, therefore
parking spaces were available.
Commissioner Jonathan asked staff about the structures to the
south of the main Foundation facility. Mr. Smith noted that
in the commission packets there was a revised site plan--
there were an additional 10 parking spaces on the west, a
3,000 square foot garage-type building to the east and a drop
o f f area f or donated goods, and in 19 9 3 the c ity approved
three duplex units that were located to the south.
Commissioner Jonathan asked if those were initially placed
there illegally (i .e. placed without a permit) and were
approved subject to them being brought into compliance in
some way. Chairperson Beaty felt that there was an emergency
request because they had to get them off the site of the
Sacred Heart Church. Commissioner Jonathan felt that when it
was improved, there was some requirement that they be brought
up to code and asked if those structures were now in �
compliance. He recalled that more parking was needed to
accommodate the additional square footage and that there was
a plan to acquire more property and that the trailers were
temporary because they were a nuisance to the Sagewood
residents because of noise and dust.
Mr. Farmer addressed the commission and said that in
1993 it wasn't trailers that were temporarily placed
there. That was prior to his arriving as the Executive
Director in 1994 . They received three duplexes that
were through the Catholic charities . They had built
some type of foundation base in the back lot and placed
these duplexes there and then found out that they could
not get the duplexes licensed or approved, so they had
them removed. Most recently in 1995 they had approval
for temporary trailers to be placed back there for their
temporary workshop since they are renovating the
existing building now. Most of their clients were
working out of that temporary trailer and that was on a
conditional use permit for an 18 month period. At that
time they anticipated expanding and building a new
workshop. The Foundation currently owns seven acres of
land there so they would be expanding in the back in the
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JUNE 4, 1996
""'' future within the next two years . They were doing that
through the Bob Hope Classic and several other
foundations that were supporting the construction of
that new facility. Those three existing trailers would
be removed and it would all be parking area.
Commissioner Jonathan said that he read of city plans to
convert the old city library for use by non-profit agencies
and would be making that facility available to organizations
like AA and others . He asked if that was correct. Mr. Smith
informed commission that there just wasn't enough parking at
that site either. Mr. Dre11 said he didn't think the
building was big enough to hold 90 people, plus there were
only 13 parking spaces on the site. Chairperson Beaty noted
that the Civic Center had plenty of parking if they used our
facility. Commissioner Ferguson asked where the figure of 90
came from because Mr. Smith told him there were 45-60 people.
Mr. Drell indicated that in the letter distributed from the
Foundation, they said there would be 90 . When adding up the
cars, there were 11 more then the capacity of the lot and the
lot had 57 spaces, so that was 67 plus the cars in the Kenny
Rogers lot and along the street, so there were 80 cars there
on the day the facility was observed. Commissioner Ferguson
asked if the 55-60 was what Mr. Smith saw when he went out
""" there last month. Mr. Smith said he didn't count the number
of people entering, but he counted 80 cars with one occupant
per car, less five or six Foundation vehicles stored there
over the weekend so there were 70-80 people.
Chairperson Beaty opened the public hearing and asked if the
applicant wished to address the commission.
MR. BILL SIMMONS addressed the commission and explained
that he was a member of Alcoholics Anonymous . He said
that 13 years ago he was a sloppy, falling down, commode
hogging, lying, cheating, stealing drunk. That was not
who the commission would see tonight as a direct result
of the Alcoholics Anonymous program. For six months he
was a coffee maker for the Sunday morning meetings and
he said he wanted to clarify a few facts . There was
only one meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous and that was
Sunday morning at the Foundation for the Retarded. They
have use of the building from 7 : 00 a.m. until 10 : 00 a.m.
From 7 : 00-9 : 00 a.m. there were around 6-8 people in the
building making coffee, organizing the room and getting
prepared for the meeting. The meeting actually ran from
9 : 00 until 10 : 00 every Sunday morning. He concurred
that there were normally 80-90 people at that meeting.
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JUNE 4, 1996
He disagreed that everyone drives individually. He has �.�r
been a regular at this meeting for some time. The
majority of the people did come alone, probably 33-35�
come together. So 50-70 vehicles was possible on a
Sunday morning, but if public parking was not available
to people who have a valid reason for being somewhere on
a Sunday morning, he asked what public parking was for.
As far as he knew the public streets of this community
were for public parking. He didn't think they were
unruly in the least. He clarified that the Thursday
night meetings and the Sunday night meetings were not
affiliated in any way. They were both meetings of the
program of Alcoholics Anonymous but they were not
affiliated. The Thursday night meeting, which he has
been secretary of for the last three months, has an
average of 20-25 people in attendance. They use the
Foundation parking and one to four cars might park on
the street because they find it more convenient, but
they don't use the Kenny Rogers parking lot. The people
that do use the Kenny Rogers parking lot on Sunday
morning have breakfast there after the meeting and once
it is open. He told commission that Alcoholics
Anonymous saved his life and returned him to the main
stream of living. It made him a productive member of
this community. He didn't feel that they should limit .r
the number of people attending an Alcoholics Anonymous
meeting and asked which drunk they would turn away. The
doors were open and people showed up in hopes that they
too could find a way out of the misery in which they
live. If the city asked them to change their location
or forced them to change their location, the fact
remained that when they moved they lost some of their
productivity. Alcoholics Anonymous has survived over 55
years because people have made their homes, their
churches, and their meeting rooms available to them and
allowed them to conduct the business they do, which was
the business of saving lives . He owed his life to
Alcoholics Anonymous . He hoped the city didn't limit
the places they could meet just because someone got
annoyed with someone playing a radio a little too loud.
The majority of people for the Sunday morning meeting
arrive about 8 : 30 a.m. Prior to 8 : 30 there were 6-8
people in the building and five cars . He felt that if
the situation was to be reviewed a little more carefully
and more attention was paid they might see a different
picture of what Alcoholics Anonymous was and what it
could do.
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� MR. RICHARD FARMER, Executive Director for the
Foundation for the Retarded, stated that he wanted to
address this issue because the Foundation for the
Retarded has grown over the years . They were still in
a growing stage because there were a lot more
handicapped people today then there were 10-15 years
ago. This was a direct result of drugs and alcohol use.
That makes them developmentally disabled and that was
why the scape term was broadened from just mental
retardation to developmental disabilities . The
Foundation has grown, yet at the same time it was
becoming more and more successful . It was the same with
Alcoholics Anonymous . They have been working with that
organization and there haven't been that many complaints
that he has heard, except in February when he received
a phone call from Mr. Drell that there was a complaint
and that was about the Kenny Rogers . In checking out
what they could do, there were several alternatives : 1)
the meeting room itself was large enough and has a room
capacity of 134-140 people; 2 ) expanding the way the
Foundation has, they were going to expand their parking
area in the future which would accommodate the AA
organization to meet their needs . He said that they
have negligently been parking their vehicles in parking
"'� spots that were readily available and what they could do
to help alleviate that was move their vehicles which
would free up an additional 8-10 parking spaces
immediately. They would move them to the back where the
trailers are now, which was sand, and they could pack
that with stone. That should help alleviate some of the
problem. He wanted the city' s consideration and
indulgence to allow AA and the Foundation to work
together and resolve the problem so that there wouldn' t
be a problem for them or the Foundation.
Mr. Simmons stated that he wanted to make it clear that
he didn't speak for Alcoholics Anonymous . He spoke from
his personal experience as a member of the program
having some knowledge of the two meetings in question
there, but didn't speak for Alcoholics Anonymous . They
have no spokesperson.
Chairperson Beaty noted that no one else was in the audience
to speak in FAVOR or OPPOSITION.
Commissioner Ferguson stated that he visited the Foundation
site earlier and saw the open sand and gravel area that Mr.
Farmer referred to and asked if the Foundation owned that
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
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property. Mr. Farmer replied yes . Commissioner Ferguson �•/
asked if it would be possible for Mr. Farmer to ask those
attending Alcoholics Anonymous on Sunday mornings to make use
of that back area for parking. Mr. Farmer replied yes .
Commissioner Ferguson asked how many cars that could
accommodate; Mr. Farmer said he wasn't sure, but there were
about five acres there and they were not adverse to making
that available for parking. Commissioner Ferguson noted that
Mr. Simmons stated that he didn' t represent Alcoholics
Anonymous; Mr. Simmons concurred. Commissioner Ferguson
asked if Alcoholics Anonymous was aware that there was a
hearing tonight that might take away their use of the
Foundation facility; Mr. Simmons stated that he didn't think
so. He, himself, was not fully aware of this situation until
he arrived here this evening and read the staff report.
Commissioner Ferguson asked if Mr. Simmons knew who the city
could contact at Alcoholics Anonymous . Mr. Simmons replied
that he could get the message to the Sunday morning meeting
this Sunday. Commissioner Ferguson asked Mr. Simmons, from
his experience, if the membership was asked to utilize the
vacant lot immediately south of the Foundation facilities if
the members would be able to do that. Mr. Simmons replied
that they were a pretty cooperative group of people and that
would not be a problem. Once the situation was presented
they would do what they could to rectify any problem that .r
exists . Commissioner Ferguson clarified for Mr. Simmons that
they have never received a complaint about AA meetings, ever,
until notices were sent out to 75 people and they received
one letter today which made a vague reference to the
increased traffic volume being hazardous to children. He
wanted Mr. Simmons to know that they city hasn' t received, to
his knowledge, complaints about their meetings . This came
about as a result of the Kenny Rogers facility opening at
11 : 00 a.m. and the church starting at 11 : 00 a.m.
Mr. Drell noted that parking lots, for them to be recognized
as parking lots, have to be built to certain standards . They
could approve temporary use permits as long as there was a
reasonable expectation and a reasonable period of time that
the parking lot would meet whatever the standard was that
everyone else had to meet. Ultimately, if there was to be
more parking developed on the site, then the city would want
those standards to meet all the standards that anyone else
would have to meet if they built a parking lot.
Commissioner Campbell asked where these meetings took place
prior to the Foundation location. Mr. Simmons replied that
the Sunday morning meeting that has been drawn into question
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`� here used to meet at the Oasis Coun�ry Club. It moved from
there because they out grew their facility. Commissioner
Campbell asked how many were in the group at Oasis Country
Club. Mr. Simmons said there were probably 40-60 people for
Sunday morning when they moved to the Foundation for the
Retarded. Commissioner Campbell asked how many years ago
that was . Mr. Simmons stated that they have been at the
Foundation for two and a half years .
Commissioner Fernandez asked if Mr. Simmons were to speak to
the group and talk to them about car pooling, and they were
talking about maybe 14 vehicles that wauldn't be parked on
the side of the street, he asked if he could get some
cooperation from them on that issue. Mr. Simmons answered
that he felt they could get some cooperation. He said the
commission had to realize that the people attending this
meeting came from all over the area. It was not per se a
local meeting. People come from Palm Springs and Indio for
this particular meeting because it has proven to be quite
successful . It was a very spiritual meeting and on Sunday
mornings it was good and was good for anyone to have some
spiritual experience. That would solve a little of the
problem, but he felt the use of the land that was available
there that was not marked for parking at this time would
""� probably be the avenue of escape for them. Once it was
pointed out that they needed to get off the street and out of
the Kenny Rogers parking lot they would do everything they
could because they didn't want to lose this facility. It
served their purposes quite well . They would be cooperative
in any way they could.
Chairperson Beaty asked if the city had contacted the
Foundation and asked for a contact person for AA if they
would have provided a number; Mr. Farmer replied yes .
Chairperson Beaty stated that it was too bad they didn't do
that and indicated that he would probably be in favor of the
resolution, although if they looked towards the future it
looked like the Foundation was growing, AA was growing, and
he suggested that they start making plans . Commissioner
Ferguson noted that they have five vacant acres . Chairperson
Beaty noted that Mr. Drell pointed out that something would
have to be done to make that area acceptable for parking
because of dust and sand. Mr. Drell indicated that Mr. Smith
provided an alternative that either through a temporary use
permit, or the commission could adopt a conditional use
permit and make it temporary similar to Mr. Muro's project,
that a condition of the temporary use permit would be that
they do make these temporary spaces available and there were
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temporary dust control measures/materials that could be put �
on the sand that could make it an acceptable parking lot for
a temporary time that would require that after six months or
a year or some date that there would have to be a proposal to
make it permanent and process a plan which would ultimately
develop those five acres which would include a parking lot.
As soon as a renovation of the building is completed those
temporary trailers would be removed and the obstacles to
expanding the parking lot would disappear. With a temporary
use permit they could modify the situation and as along as
there was no problem they could continue to extend it. After
each period of time they would be consulting with the
Sagewood Homeowners Association to ask if they have any
objections, they could talk to Kenny Rogers and if no one has
any objection and they've made their attempt either through
car pooling or the use of this lot to mitigate the problem,
they could continue to approve temporary use permits .
Commissioner Ferguson stated that he was deeply troubled by
the fact that from a due process standpoint that Alcoholics
Anonymous did not have notice of this hearing. It would be
one thing if they were mailed a notice and chose not to show
up, but as he understood it they weren't even mailed a
notice. Mr. Drell noted that they were the applicant.
Commissioner Ferguson disagreed. He said that the Foundation r►
was the applicant. Mr. Drell stated that it was assumed that
the applicant represents his clients, in essence, which were
the people he was applying for. The city typically relied on
the people making the application to notify all those that
they have an interest in notifying. Commissioner Ferguson
stated that he specifically sat down with Mr. Smith, and this
was not a criticism of him, but he thought something could
have been worked out by contacting Alcoholics Anonymous and
asking them the types of questions they were asking tonight
and no effort was ever made. Mr. Drell stated that they
asked those questions of the applicant and staff assumed that
it was the applicant' s responsibility to represent his case.
If a restaurant applied for an expansion, they didn't try and
contact all the patrons of the restaurant. They assumed that
the restaurant owner would garner the support that he needed
to pursue his case. He didn't believe it was his obligation,
if it was a church, to go contacting the members of a church.
Staff assumes that the leaders of the church do that for
themselves . Commissioner Ferguson stated that he understood
the point Mr. Drell was making, but he was unwilling to
terminate a successful enterprise like Alcoholics Anonymous
without them having notice, whoever' s fault it was, and he
would be at a minimum willing to continue this so that if it
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� was necessary they could bring them here and involve them in
this process, which was the point he was trying to make. It
was not a criticism but an observation that they wauldn't do
something like that without discussing it with them.
Secondly, as far as the overflow parking, the problem that
bothered him the most in all this was that this was a
victimless crime. Someone complained about Kenny Rogers,
which has been the lightning rod of criticism in that area,
and the church because it happened to coincide, and as a
result they were terminating Alcoholics Anonymous, which made
no sense to him whatsoever. He looked at Sacred Heart and
the parking situation there which was a dust bowl . He looked
at the Redevelopment Agency project next to the Circle K
which was a dirt lot and no one has abated that nuisance and
it seemed to him that they were taking an elephant gun
approach to what wasn't even a real problem. He looked at
the minutes relating to Mr. Schreiber who lives right across
the street who described his life over there as a living
nightmare and he had the opportunity to testify regarding
this, he received a notice and he chose not to, which told
him that even he didn't see a problem and he was across the
street. He was sensitive in wanting to approach this
potential problem in a sensible way, but to say that they
have to be out by September 8 without ever talking to them
� and with no evidence of a real problem was a measure which he
could not support. He reiterated that he felt the real
problem was Kenny Rogers, not Alcoholics Anonymous, not
Calvary Church, and not the Foundation for the Retarded.
Commissioner Jonathan felt that the issue seemed to be
clouded by the particular tenants, one of which was AA. He
wanted to make it clear that he was in favor of the goals and
objectives of AA, but he didn't think this hearing tonight
was about addressing the worthiness of that program. The
Planning Commission was here to address uses of property and
unfortunately he felt there was a problem in terms of the
use. It was not in conformity with the conditional use
permit that the Foundation was issued and that was the
problem. The non-conformity was resulting in overflow
parking which was impacting the center, which they already
knew was a problem, it was also adversely impacting the
Sagewood residents. On Sunday mornings the last thing he
wanted was a bunch of cars in front of his house and he could
understand that was very much a potential problem. He didn 't
have a problem with not notifying AA. If they started
notifying tenants of applicants the city would use up all the
RDA funds it could ever hope to use. He didn' t have a
problem with that issue. He noted that Commissioner Ferguson
�..
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
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listed other parking problems but he didn' t see the solution �
to those parking problems as creating more parking problems .
Whichever ones that were listed should be addressed and dealt
with rather then creating more of the same kinds of problems .
He was very concerned that no one from Sagewood was present
and he agreed that a continuance made sense, but for
different reasons . He stated that he would like to hear from
the board of Sagewood and if they say this is no problem,
they are aware of AA being there and they have no problem
with the cars parking in front of their homes, then he was
convinced. He wanted to know that they have been made aware
of the situation and were in agreement. The possible
solutions to the problem such as the use of the area in back
when it was last addressed by the Sagewood residents was a
real problem because it was on the other side of their
backyard. If they did start making noise on Sunday mornings
and kicking up dust, this could be creating a problem. He
felt that what they were running into was the non-compliance
of a permitted use and the encroachment of that non-
compliance into a residential neighborhood. Before they look
at the worthiness of a program and say at any cost let ' s do
it and it was a growing and successful program, which means
that whatever its effect it would be magnified in the future,
he suggested continuing the matter and giving an opportunity
to the Foundation, AA, the church and Sagewood to maybe talk �rr
and meet and see what could be worked out. That was his
recommendation.
Chairperson Beaty stated that he would be in favor of that
option also. He again reiterated that they obviously would
be having a growing problem and they should start looking for
a new facility if they were growing that fast. With 40-60
members at Oasis and now they have 80-90, if they were that
successful they might be back here in a year with 130 and
that would be a real problem. He also stated that no one was
questioning AA and that was not the issue at all .
Commissioner Ferguson stated that he wanted to point out that
his reference to Sacred Heart Church and the Redevelopment
Agency project was not that two wrongs made a right, but that
they certainly weren' t shutting down those enterprises
because of a concern over dust and he reiterated again,
because Commissioner Jonathan said he saw evidence of adverse
effect on the neighborhood, that there had been no evidence
presented. There was a notice list of 75 people that
included Sagewood, and their absence tonight was indicative
of the fact that there was no problem and he was not
advocating a road rally on the dirt parking lot which could
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
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'` create big problems . He said he would like to continue this
and let AA know about it and Sagewood could certainly check
in. He stated that he would speak out for the merits of
Alcoholics Anonymous and for the church. They were two
tremendously socially beneficial enterprises and they did
need to moderate and take a look at their use, but the way
this has been handled and approached, he didn't see any
sensitivity to these two organizations and if they included
the Foundation, those three organizations . It all seemed to
have occurred as a result of one phone call relating to Kenny
Rogers and now they would limit the growth of a church, throw
Alcoho2ics Anonymous out in three months and it seemed that
it was wrong and if he was overacting by the strength of his
words he would apologize, but he felt very passionately about
what they were doing and hoped that something could be worked
out with the residents and the parking lot.
Chairperson Beaty asked for a motion to continue this item to
July 2, 1996 . Commissioner Jonathan requested that the
Sagewood Board be included in the communications, rather than
just the few homes within 300 feet. Staff concurred.
Commissioner Ferguson asked if the Sagewood Board was
notified. Mr. Smith explained that the notice was mailed,
but it came back yesterday with no forwarding address .
''"" Chairperson Beaty noted that the attempt was made.
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner
Fernandez, continuing CUP 01-82 Amendment No. 3 to July 2,
1996 by minute motion. Carried 5-0 .
C. Case Nos . CUP 96-15 and VAR 96-1 - DENISE ROBERGE,
Applicant
Request for approval of a Negative
Declaration of Environmental Impact,
conditional use permit and a variance to
allow the construction of a 35 space
parking lot on a 14,899 square foot
parcel at the southwest corner of
Portola Avenue and Shadow Mountain Drive
(APN 627-351-039) .
Mr. Drell explained that staff was waiting for a completed
plan from the applicant and a continuance to June 18, 1996
was being requested.
�
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
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Chairperson Beaty asked for a motion of continuance. �i
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner
Fernandez, continuing CUP 96-15 and VAR 96-1 to June 18, 1996
by minute motion. Carried 5-0.
IX. MISCELLANEOUS
A. Discussion of AB 771 Grantinq All Existing Tentative
Subdivision Maps an Automatic One-Year Time Extension.
Mr. Drell informed commission that this was just for
informational purposes only. All existing tentative
subdivision maps which haven't expired by May 15, 1996 would
receive an automatic one-year time extension.
Action:
None.
X. ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ADVISORY COMMITTEE UPDATE
None. �1
XI . COMMENTS
None.
XII . ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Ferguson, seconded by Commissioner
Campbell, adjourning the meeting to June 18, 1996 by minute
motion. Carried 5-0 . The meeting was adjourned at 8 : 08 p.m.
.-----�^ .
PHILIP DRE , Secretary
ATTE ST: - -��"�`
� /� ,� t
PAUL . BEATY, Chairpe, son
Palm Desert Planning C` mmission
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