HomeMy WebLinkAbout0520 MINUTES
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEET(NG
TUESDAY - MAY 20, 1997
7:00 P.M. - CIVIC CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBER
73-510 FRED WARING DRIVE
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I. CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Ferguson called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Commissioner Fernandez led in the pledge of allegiance.
III. ROLL CALL
Members Present: Jim Ferguson, Chairperson
Paul Beaty
Sonia Campbell
George Fernandez
Sabby Jonathan
Members Absent: None
Staff Present: Steve Smith Mark Greenwood
Sandy Jacobson Tonya Mo�roe
Phil Joy
� IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Consideration of the May 6, 1997 meeting minutes.
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Beaty, seconded by Commissioner Campbell,
approving the May 6, 1997 meeting minutes. Carried 5-0.
V. SUMMARY OF COUNCIL ACTION:
Mr. Smith reviewed the salient points of the May 8, 1997 city council meeting.
VI. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
MR. JOHN CRAIG, 29-706 Avenida de Real in Sun City, stated that about two
months ago the Planning Commission allowed him to have a strawberry stand
on Washington Street. He said they would be closing this weekend and
wanted to let the commission know that he thought this was a very popular
business. He said that he has been trying to get feedback from the
neighborhood, but he hadn't heard of any problems. He asked if the
commission had heard of any he needed to address. He also stated that he
was looking for new sites for next year and the thought had occurred to him
that churches would be an ideal location because they could probably use the
rent and they didn't use their parking lot most of the time and were in areas
�"" where he could have the exposure he needed, but wouldn't cause a problem
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for traffic because they have parking lots and curb cuts or other sites that he
could look at for next year. Commissioner Beaty asked if the use was �;
successful and if he sold a lot of strawberries. Mr. Craig replied that he
thought so, considering that they had the Mexican strawberry scare three days
after he opened. Commissioner Beaty noted that the stand never looked like
the pictures the commission was shown. Mr. Craig concurred and apologized.
Commissioner Beaty asked if it would next year. Mr. Craig said yes and
explained that the guy who built it didn't do anything he was supposed to and
Mr. Craig got started two weeks late and he wasn't sure he was allowed to
do any work on it while sales were ongoing. He agreed it would be better next
year. Commissioner Campbell asked if he would be taking the stand down
now. Mr. Craig said it would be moved on Memorial Day or the day after. It
was a portable stand on wheels. He said that he wanted some guidelines so
that he could start looking at property in the proper zoning. Commissioner
Beaty said that the commission would have to review any proposal on a site
by site basis. Mr. Craig asked if the use of a church parking lot was feasible.
Chairperson Ferguson replied that it was a business decision that Mr. Craig
would have to make and when he returned with his temporary use permit next
year, the commission would take a look at it. He noted that there is an open
air market at College of the Desert. Regarding locating at a church,
Chairperson Ferguson suggested that Mr. Craig work with staff because there
were certain limitations that would require a review by staff and they could
give him a good indication as to whether it would be permissible under the
code. Commissioner Jonathan noted that many churches are in residential
neighborhoods and they were allowed there under a conditional use permit and
he cautioned that Mr. Craig might run into problems because of the close �
proximity of residences. From his standpoint, he would be more interested in
the traffic flow and the issues addressed with Mr. Craig's original application
and whatever ancillary businesses happened to be around it would almost be
secondary.
VII. CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Case No. PMW 97-7 - FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH OF PALM DESERT,
Applicant
Request for approval of a parcel map waiver to combine parcels
77 and 78 for development purposes.
B. Case No. PMW 97-10 - MINISTRELLI DEVELOPMENT, INC., Applicant
Request for approval of a parcel map waiver to allow a lot line
adjustment for Lot Nos. 3-25 of Tract 28287 in Bighorn Golf
Club.
C. Case No. PMW 97-11 - BIGHORN DEVELOPMENT, L.P., Applicant
Request for approval of a parcel map waiver to allow a lot line
adjustment of Lots 2 and "B" of Tract 28287 in Bighorn Golf
Club.
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Action:
�„�„ Moved by Commissioner Beaty, seconded by Commissioner Campbell,
approving the consent calendar by minute motion. Carried 5-0.
VIII. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. Case No. PP/CUP 97-5 - JOHN TURNOCK - Applicant
Request for approval of a precise plan of design/conditional use
permit for construction and operation of a full service car wash
and detail center on the north side of Dinah Shore Drive, 320 feet
west of Monterey Avenue.
Mr. Smith stated that Mr. Turnock was acquiring a two-acre site on the north
side of Dinah Shore. On April 1 commission approved a fuel station on the
northwest corner of Monterey and Dinah Shore associated with Price Costco.
He explained that this parcel was the one immediately to the west. It was a
proposal for a full service car wash and detail center. Plans were on display
and he showed where the access driveways were located. He stated that the
project met all the provisions of the Zoning Ordinance and the architecture
received preliminary approval from the Architectural Review Commission. He
explained that due to the grade change, all that would be seen from Dinah
Shore were the roofs. Staff recommended approval.
;�, Commissioner Campbell asked for clarification that the circulation would allow
ingress/egress from the westerly driveway into the project. Mr. Smith said
there was a traffic flow pattern, but if someone got turned around, they could
easily get straightened out. Mr. Smith didn't think there would be a problem
because there were more than two acres. Chairperson Ferguson asked if this
full service car wash included pulling up to the vacuum cleaners, getting out
of the car and then the employees take over from there. If someone went in
the wrong way, the employees would tell them to back up and turn around.
Mr. Smith concurred and if traffic got turned around, they could use on of the
aisles to get going the right direction. Chairperson Ferguson asked if someone
would be available to direct traffic if there was a problem. Mr. Smith
concurred.
Chairperson Ferguson opened the public hearing and asked the applicant to
address the commission.
MR. JOHN TURNOCK, 36-720 Palm Court in Rancho Mirage, stated
that he would be the owner and general contractor of the facility. He
also indicated that he was currently a general contractor in Palm Desert
for the custom homes in Montecido. He said he was excited to get this
project approved so that they could begin construction almost
immediately. He said he has looked for a site for a couple of years and
they wanted to be near the freeway and with the help of Price Costco
they were able to work out using this parcel for the car wash. He said
they were putting the tunnel buffered in against landscaping and thanks
� to Mr. Thornbury, the architect, all the natural landscaping was kept in
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place and they were adding a few trees. He thought it was a Palm
Desert project and indicated that Mr. Thornbury was a Palm Desert
architect. He said that the construction financing would be coming
from a Palm Desert bank and they hoped to bring money from Rancho
Mirage and Cathedral Cifiy into Palm Desert and they were anxious to
get approval for the project.
Chairperson Ferguson asked if anyone wished to speak in FAVOR or
OPPOSITION to the project. There was no one and the public hearing was
closed. He asked for commission comments or action.
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Beaty, seconded by Commissioner Fernandez,
approving the findings as presented by staff. Commissioner Jonathan stated
that he had no problem with the project and felt it was a really good addition
a�d there was definitely not a parking problem, but he wanted to comment
about car washes. He said he wasn't sure how the standards for car washes
were calculated, but he wanted to alert staff that car washes were very labor
intensive businesses and employees brought in a lot of cars. He thought
Harv's was a good example of not having adequate employee parking. He felt
that it has the potential to create a problem, but fortunately this application
was not a problem but he wanted to bring it up to staff as an issue for other
car washes that might not be as nicely situated at this one. Chairperson
Ferguson indicated that service stations and car washes were covered in
Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance Review and it was a concern that has being
taken into consideration. Chairperson Ferguson called for the vote. Carried
5-0.
Moved by Commissioner Beaty, seconded by Commissioner Fernandez,
adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 1806, approving PP/CUP 97-5,
subject to conditions. Carried 5-0.
B. Case No. C/Z 90-12 Amendment No. 1 Development Agreement -
CREST PARTNERS (MILLER RICHARDS PARTNERSHIP), Applicants
Request for approvai of pre-annexation zoning of 640 acres north
of the "Cahuilla Hi11s" area and 55 acres across the Palm Valley
Channel from the "Sommerset" condominiums to Planned
Community/Hillside Planned Residential with a development
agreement for a project known as "The Crest" consisting of 151
homesites on 695 acres (410 acres to be dedicated as open
space►.
Mr. Joy stated that this was the same project that the commission approved
unanimously a couple of years ago and consists of zoning for up to 151
custom homesites. The homesites were mostly located in a bowl-shaped area
presently outside the City limits north of the Cahuilla Hills area that would be �
brought into the city when the project is approved. Access to the project
would be from Highway 74 across a new bridge over the Palm Valley Channel
and it would intersect Highway 74 and Homestead. The road would then
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proceed over 55 acres that are already in the city and would allow up to 21
r.. units to be developed on those 55 acres. After Planning Commission last
approved the project it was continued indefinitely at the Council level and
since that time the applicant has been in negotiations with the City in order to
make the project more palatable. The main change to the project was the
inclusion of a development agreement, which through some negotiating
transferred eight of the units from the 55 acres to the bowl-shaped County
area, and part of those negotiations were some allowances as far as the
grading restrictions to allow those eight units to be fitted into the rear of the
bowl-shaped area. He said it was also written into the text of the
development agreement that those additional eight units could be clustered.
While they were talking about 151 custom homesites, there was also a little
flexibility so that they could do some casitas type of project like in Bighorn.
Also through some negotiations the 410 acre open space dedication could be
made incrementally with the 100 acres up front and this would become
effective 30 days after execution of the agreement. The remainder of the
open space would be dedicated as adjacent tracts are processed. He said this
was also when a better definition of where the lines should be located could
be made. The main feature of this project was that this was not the last
public hearing that would be held on it. This application was merely stating
the maximum number of units that the site could accommodate and it would
be required of future subdivision maps to prove that actual subdivisions could
be made in conformance with the City's hillside zoning criteria. They have
analyzed it and when they first looked at the project it was determined that up
to 185 units could be developed on the site and still conform to the City's
r„�„ hillside zoning. Through letters going back and forth with the County the 151
unit number was arrived at. He said it was acknowledged that some of the
documents in the accompanying PCD text which were distributed to
commission were a little out dated and noted that this has been around since
1989. He said that at this point what they were trying to achieve was that
staff and the applicant were hoping to find out what the commission and
council wanted to see added into the text at this point. Once all the input was
gathered, any changes could be made between the two readings of the zone
change before the City Council. He noted that a few letters of concern had
been received and the first letter which was included with the commission's
staff report alluded to the emergency access required by the Fire Marshal.
Although staff favored a route shown on the plans currentfy going into the
Cahuilla Hills area, staff was allowing the applicant to wait until they actually
submitted a subdivision map to show where it would be since it required
negotiations with adjacent property owners wherever it is located. Three
letters were also received from residents of Bighorn Golf Club asking for a
continuance due to late noticing and referring to The Crest as a condominium
project. For the record he indicated that Bighorn Golf Club is located over a
mile away from this project so it was out of the 300-foot notification area. He
stated that the project was planned for custom home sites rather than
condominiums. Staff recommended approval of the project.
Commissioner Jonathan advised the commission that he owns property within
close proximity of this project and would be abstaining from any discussion or
voting on this matter.
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t
Chairperson Ferguson asked Mr. Joy how many people were determined to be �
within 300 feet of this project. Mr. Joy replied approximately 75. Chairperson
Ferguson said that he has been contacted by a number of people who pointed
out to him that most of the Cahuilla Hills residents live on five acre parcels
which by definition put them more than 300 feet away and notwithstanding
that fact they would be very visually affected by the project and many of these
people were not just from Bighorn. He knew this subject came up when the
commission was evaluating microwave antennas and it was noted that people
closer to the antennas were less affected than people who were farther away
and he thought this might be one such instance. He pointed that out because
several of the people that have called him live directly across the wash and the
properties were appurtenant to this project and they received no written
notice. He said he knew that Councilman Crites has a parcel immediately
appurtenant to the parcel and he received no written notice. He thought staff
was dismissing this as sort of a concern of Bighorn a mile away, but he
thought it was a little more serious than that. Secondly, Chairperson Ferguson
asked if the commission was being asked to approve the development
agreement tonight. Mr. Joy replied that the commission was being asked to
recommend approval of the basic form of it to City Council. Chairperson
Ferguson asked what basic form meant. Mr. Joy said that as discussed
earlier, he was referring to the PCD text and all the implications that go with
the development agreement. He noted that the commission has had many
development agreements before them. He indicated that one item they talked
about that was lacking were the standard conditions of approval that have
been placed on a project that the City normally places on any types subdivision �
maps. As he said during his staff report, anything the commission would like ,�j
to see included in the development agreement they would like to add by
reference and hopefully the project could move on in that fashion. Chairperson
Ferguson asked if the commission was approving this proposal tonight or not.
Mr. Joy clarified that the commission couldn't approve the development
agreement, they could only recommend approval to the City Council.
Chairperson Ferguson noted that paragraph 5, page 8 of the development
ag�eement said that each of the terms, provisions and modifications set forth
in the PCD text including all of its appendices and exhibits are approved and
hereby incorporated into this agreement. He asked if they were generally
recommending to the Council that they approve it. Mr. Joy concurred.
Chairperson Ferguson opened the public hearing and asked the applicant to
address the commission. He noted that they would be following the normal
format: they would ask all those in favor of the project to speak, then all those
in opposition and then if necessary the applicant would be given a brief
rebuttal period.
MR. TY MILLER, the applicant, stated that he was the owner of this
property and it had been owned by his family since 1922. He said they
have been working diligently with the City since 1989. They came
down and met with the city and different planning people and council
members. They did a lot of due diligence before with community
groups, homeowners' associations and they really tried to take into
account all of the aspects that might be of concern to the community.
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The biggest concern was hillside development and he thought they had
�„ come up with one of the most innovative and very environmentally
sensitive projects, and probably the most environmentally sensitive
project the commission and council have reviewed. He said they didn't
come up with this concept. They had seen it done very successfully in
Scottsdale and other parts of Arizona. He indicated it was a different
project: they wouldn't grade everything, put in streets and gutters and
street lights or a project like that. As most of the commissioners had
seen this project twice, and approved this twice, he thought they
understood that this was a very unique project being sensitive relative
to the land. He thought that was what the value was, that perhaps
with this project people would think of the desert as opposed to Hawaii
and instead of reproducing Hawaii everywhere. He said it was a
different concept and they would be leaving the desert in its natural
state. He thought it might be worthwhile to tell the commission about
their organization for those who didn't know anything about them.
Their company had been a privately held company and they were
headquartered in San Diego. They had done a lot of developments and
he noted that he has been Chairman of the Creomesa Planning Group
in San Diego so he knew a lot of the commission's concerns relative to
the amount of paperwork they review and the high salaries they were
paid to do it. He said he appreciated their position. He indicated that
they developed 2,000 acres in Oceanside where they had a
development agreement and a similar sort of scenario that has worked
very favorably and he thought that the Rancho del Oro project was one
`„�, of the best projects in Oceanside. He said they own several million
square feet of projects in California as well as several hundred units, so
they have a lot of experience in doing this type of development. They
have also done some hotel development and he thought they had one
of the nicest hotels in Rancho Santa Fe and it was a high quality
development. He thought they were recently rated number one on the
Zagot Survey and in the Forbes Magazine as one of the finest resorts.
They wanted to do a high quality development and he thought it
showed and that they could because they have a very favorable basis.
He said they were proposing, provided that they were allowed to build
this project, that they would be giving the most visually impacted
property to the City. That was the basic concept. He noted that more
than 91 % of the project would be left in its natural state. He said it
was nothing like Bighorn or some of the other developments that
basically took the desert, graded it, and then rebuilt it. In Scottsdale it
was a completely different concept, they actually fence their
construction area. If there was a two-acre lot and they build a pad of
10,000 square feet, it was actually fenced during the construction
period and built so that cement and all the pollutants didn't run into the
desert. When they were finished, they would have a pueblo style house
and very strict site development standards in terms of the type of
homes that can be built and the type of materials. Their standards were
much more stringent than Palm Desert's codes and went down to
something like CC&Rs in terms of what the buildings would look like,
the color pallets and would be a lot more detailed than what was in the
,�, basic code. They thought that was necessary because they wanted to
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build a high quality project. He told commission there would be about �
410 acres that would be open space, dedicated open space given to the �
City and depending on what the City wanted to do with the open space,
that became the property of the City. It was basically so that all of the
most sensitive view shed would be given to the City. They also had a
dedication called desert park that essentially was like dedicated open
space because they wouldn't develop anything in it; on the other hand
they might have a park bench or something like that. Dedicated open
space would be the most restricted where they wouldn't have any
control over it at all and there were some discussions about not even
being able to walk in it. Some of the property they would like the
people to be able to hike on or picnic. Once they give the land to the
City, they would make their own rules for the open space and he fe4t it
was reasonable that people should be able to hike on property adjacent
to them, particularly if it was undeveloped. To clear up any ambiguities
there might be between desert park and dedicated open space, they
basically looked the same except in a desert park they could walk
through it and the ownership would be retained and dedicated back to
the homeowner's association, but it wouldn't be developed on. He said
it was a title issue more than anything else. It would look like the Lord
made it. He hoped that cleared up some of the ambiguities. He stated
that he wanted to make this informal and asked the commission to ask
questions at any time. He didn't want to bore the commission with too
much, but indicated that the last time they were before the commission
was two years ago. He said that more than 91 % of the project was
dedicated open space. He didn't think there was another project like �
this in Palm Desert on the scale of this project. He showed the
commission their conceptual land use plan on an overhead monitor
which showed the land being dedicated to the City. He said that
nothing would be developed in there except for some storage tanks in
one canyon for irrigation purposes. He also showed the desert park
area and said originally there were eight units included there that were
actually beautiful lots on the ridge lines and he thought they were some
of the most valuable property in the entire development, but there were
people on the council that were concerned about these issues so they
decided that in order to make peace with everyone that it would be best
to turn that into a park. All they had done was take that acreage for
those large eight lots that was roughly 15 to 20 acres and all of that
had been turned into desert park. He indicated that the adjacent
property owners there were five acre lots on the ridge line that would
one day be developed unless it was acquired by the City. He said they
were surrounded by five acre lots that were adjacent to them that
would ultimately be developed unless they were acquired or otherwise
put into open space. He thought this was a very major concession on
their part because those lots were worth a lot of money and they just
went away. They agreed to relocate those eight lots into the other
upper County area. That entire 640 acres was in the County and so
they said they would down zone the fower piece of property, and if they
were allowed to fit it into the upper portion, that would be fair. He said �
that all of the upper portion of the property was virtually invisible from
the valley floor. He indicated that they have a certified EIR that shows �
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they studied the visual impacts based on CEQA standards and did
r,�, computer simulations and all that information was public record and
showed that hardly any of the property is visible. Even with the
additional compromise of leaving that additional property as open space
he thought they got a fair compromise in being able to achieve the
density they need to make this work because it was very expensive
property to develop because the infrastructure costs were enormous
and so they thought that was perhaps a fair trade off. He displayed
another exhibit that showed the conceptual lot layout and showed
where the lots would be and indicated that the lots had stakes on them
� and various council members had been up there to look at the specific
locations of those lots to make sure they wouldn't visually impact the
community in a negative way, so they actually placed stakes on those
exact lots in the lower portion. The upper portion in the County was
700 acres. While it might look to be fairly high density, it wasn't and
he noted that in San Diego they have built thousands of units on 200
acres. This was 140 units and 151 units spread out over that area. He
thought the concept was very interesting and the area that he lives in
is Rancho Santa Fe and it was a fairly well known area and had very
restrictive CC&Rs, which was why they put in restrictive CC&Rs for
this project because they would create value over time--although they
might be a pain to deal with when explaining to the first time buyer why
they couldn't build this or that because it was restricted, but over the
long term there was very fine value developed. He said this concept of
not fencing was a very different concept. He said these lots would give
,� out 200 feet on center so they were very far apart and they averaged
three quarters of an acre to three to five acre lots, depending on the lay
of the land. He said that almost none of their lots were squares. They
were designed around the contours of the land which is not the case in
typical subdivisions. He said it was not easy to relocate eight lots
because they couldn't just say that they would make some lots smaller.
They were siting these lots in unique places to minimize the grading; in
other words wlierever there was a place for a house, that was where
they had to put it. They wouldn't go in there and create places for all
the houses. It was a completely different concept than how most
developers look at property, even though when they are finished it may
look natural but typicalfy it was all graded under, repacked, mounded up
and rebuilt. This was a different type of project. One of the unique
features they proposed was that the homeowner might own a two-acre
lot and he built an estate type house and had 15,000 feet to work with,
he couldn't fence his entire property. In Scottsdale he thought it was
beautiful. When looking at property in Scottsdale, a house could be
seen here or there and because there was no fencing and no landscape
barriers between everyone breaking up visually the expanse of the
desert, it was a completely different feeling from a neighborhood that
plants oleanders up and down between everyone and everyone has their
private square. He said because of the distance between properties you
wouldn't be able to tell where one property began and another ended.
The eye would tell them that there is twice as much property there and
there would be no artificial or man made barriers. He thought it was
� very innovative. He said that if someone wanted to build a house, they
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would build it on a pad and then they would have to dedicate back
through the homeowners association all of the area outside of their �
homesite and it became open space and they couldn't fence it or
develop it--it stayed as natural desert. He showed one design with a
pool and indicated that houses were intended to be anywhere from
3500 square feet and up. He said that essentia((y conc(uded his part of
the presentation. He stated that since they had been through the
commission twice, he hoped the third time would be a charm. He said
they were unanimously approved twice, once for 185 units and two
years ago for 151 units. He said for the big picture the project was the
same, but better because they relocated eight lots and put about 15 to
20 acres of that into open space area so substantially they were looking
at the same project twice. He noted there might be some
inconsistencies with some of their documents, but they were not
substantive in his view.
Chairperson Ferguson stated that according to his staff report the project failed
for approval on a 2-2-1 vote and was passed to council with no
recommendation on a 4-0 vote. To say that the commission has approved this
project unanimously twice was a bit misleading, at least according to the staff
report. Also, his colleagues were on the commission when this came through
the last time, but he wasn't. He hoped that Mr. Miller wasn't suggesting that
he should approve it simply because two years ago his colleagues did. He said
he just wanted to caution the applicant along those lines. He indicated this
was a new project before them for a fresh look.
;
Mr. Miller said he understood, but wanted to be sensitive to those who ""r
maybe saw it before. He indicated that part of the reason they didn't
change all of their exhibits was for that reason. They had some new
people that they had to make sure that they had everything clear for
and other people that they didn't want to change the appearance of all
the exhibits so that everyone would say that this was a totally different
project. He noted it was a huge project and in San Diego he was
dealing with General Dynamics on a 230-acre site and they were given
a thick document to review and all he wanted to know was what the
changes were. He said he has worked diligently with staff on trying to
keep the documents reasonably as similar as they were before by using
exhibits so they wouldn't confuse staff, commission and council who
are trying to make decisions on information they've looked at before.
He apologized if he made a mistake when he said they were approved
unanimously; he thought they were and that it was his error. He knew
they were approved twice and it was relatively smooth sailing in his
view and there weren't major controversies at the commission level. He
requested that if there are inconsistencies in documents or if there were
questions that the commission has on specific exhibits relative to unit
count, he could clarify a number of issues like how the sewer lines
would cross the storm channel or details like that--he would be happy
to clarify those in person or right now and make any revisions they
needed to cover any inconsistencies because they were not
fundamentally changing the project. If there are exhibit errors or
numbers that needed to be re-clarified for consistency, they would be �
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happy to make those prior to the City Council meeting, but in his view
�,,,,, they weren't substantive deviations from what they had proposed
previously.
Chairperson Ferguson stated that he has spoken to Mr. Miller at some length
on several occasions and also to Mr. Miller's attorney, Mr. Selzer, in addition
to Councilperson Crites and Councilperson Benson, who he believed had
walked this site previously and were the ones that Mr. Miller alluded to.
Chairperson Ferguson said that he noted about ten inconsistencies in the
proposal, as well as in the development agreement, and he faxed those to Mr.
Miller this afternoon and said he would be happy to make his notes a part of
the record so that everything was done properly (see Exhibit A). He said he
also spoke to Mr. Joy who indicated that there were probably ten other maps
that bore no relevance to the current project that were contained in the current
proposal. He said it was not his inclination to go through every one of those
tonight for reasons he would discuss under commission comments, but he felt
� the applicant knew what his concerns were.
Mr. Miller concurred and didn't think he was usurping anything. On the
commission he sits on, they tried to work through inconsistencies and
ambiguities as best they could so that they could clarify anything that
was a confusion because it was not their intent to confuse, mislead or
otherwise confuse anyone. He said he appreciated the hard work
everyone put in to review a very complex project. He said they would
make whatever clarification needed to be made for any inconsistencies
,�, or ambiguities. He indicated that any technical questions could be
directed to Paul Selzer, his attorney that helped them draft the
development agreement. He said he would be happy to answer any
questions on any level and would do the best he could and if he didn't
know the answer, he would get the answer.
Mr. Joy said he wanted to set the record straight that the first time the project
came before the planning commission was in 1992 and the commission voted
2-2-1 for approval of a 209-unit project. Then they voted 4-0 to send the
project up to council with no recommendation at all. When it came back again
as a 151-unit project, it was approved unanimously.
Chairperson Ferguson asked if anyone else wished to speak in FAVOR of this
project.
MR. PAUL SELZER, the attorney for the project developers, stated that �
he didn't have anything to add, but he was ready to answer any
questions with respect to the development agreement.
Chairperson Ferguson said he would like to give Mr. Selzer an opportunity to
respond to a couple of things since most of his concerns about the proposal
were because of problems with the development agreement. He suggested
they start with page 7 paragraph 4.5.3. It said that site development plans,
tentative maps and additional applications for the development of the County
portion of the site shall be deemed to be in substantial conformance with the
� provisions of chapter 4 site development and estate residential standards of
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�
�
the PCD/HPR if they were within 20% of the standards set forth therein. �
Cross referencing that with page 41 of the proposal there was no such j
reference. Chairperson Ferguson said he had already brought that to Mr.
Miller's attention.
Mr. Selzer replied that the language on the last three lines of section
4.5.3 with respect to the 20% deviation which should read, as a result
of conversations with staff, the same as page 41 B and the second
bullet point. He said that because they moved units from the lower
portion of the project to the upper, and because the project was
designed to have a specific number of units on the upper and the lower,
they recognized that it was likely that there would have to be deviations
in some of the standards in order to move some of those lots. ln
discussions with Councilman Crites, it was agreed that they could do
that. The question was how they could measure that and what criteria
they would use so that as plans came through staff could judge
whether or not that deviation was appropriate or not. He said that to
be very frank, the type of that deviation was not specifically negotiated.
They proposed a 20% deviation. After staff had an opportunity to
review it and after the two city council people had an opportunity to
review it, it was decided that was probably too generous. So what they
suggested was that from approximately the bottom half of the second
bullet point at the bottom of page 41 , which would be modified to read,
"The City will allow deviation from City standards sufficient to '
accommodate the additional lots on property A in such a fashion to be �
generally consistent with the overall character of the development. �
Alternatively, at the sole discretion of the developer units may be
developed on a single site as a cluster development with a density of no
greater than four units to the acre upon a location satisfactory to both
the developer and the city." He said that language had been approved
as a substitute for the last three lines of section 4.5.3. It had been
reviewed by staff and the city attorney.
Chairperson Ferguson asked if it just didn't make it into the copies of the
agreement that the commission received.
Mr. Selzer said the re-draft of the agreement was done last week and
he had been out of town until today and it was his fault it was not
included.
Chairperson Ferguson noted that section 4.5.4 on page 7 said that the City
shall not impose any conditions to any site development plan, tentative or final
map or additional approvals except in so far as such conditions were expressly
set forth in the PCD/HPR or this agreement or such standard conditions to
tentative maps as are set forth in Exhibit C. He said there are not standard
conditions set forth in Exhibit C and he asked if he was saying, in effect, that
once this development agreement was approved the City was incapable of
placing any conditions on this development as plans are brought before the
commission. i
�
�
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Mr. Selzer stated that the City has a set of standard conditions which
f.. is Exhibit C although he didn't know what was included in the
commission's packet. He said that staff developed a set of standards
which would be appended as Exhibit C and those standards would apply
to the project.
Chairperson Ferguson asked if those standard conditions were available. Mr.
Joy replied that they had been prepared and had hoped they were included in
the development agreement. He knew the applicant had a copy of them and
understood with the applicant being out of town how it didn't get included.
He said those conditions were in staff's files. Chairperson Ferguson requested
a copy from staff and apologized to Mr. Selzer.
Chairperson Ferguson said that he wanted to go through enough of the
document to be able to show that he has some serious problems with the
development agreement. He thought that from Mr. Selzer's aspect it was a
well-written document, but from the City's aspect he wasn't so sure that the
City was getting much of a benefit from the bargain and he wanted to give Mr.
Selzer the opportunity to address some of these issues. Chairperson Ferguson
asked about the incremental dedication of open space and if under the
applicant's proposal that 30 days after approval of this agreement the City
would be vested with 100 acres, which he thought was indicated at least on
one of the maps, but thereafter the acreage included in any subsequent
dedication would bear the same relationship to the acreage contained in the
entire remaining dedicated open space to be dedicated as the number of
i., residential units for which it is receiving such entitlements, permits,
authorizations, required by it to begin the construction for the 151 units. He
asked if the applicant was saying that they would dedicate the land as the City
approves their lots.
Mr. Selzer concurred.
Chairperson Ferguson said that if they didn't develop any lots, the City
wouldn't receive any open space.
Mr. Selzer thought that was fair and accurate. If this property was
undeveloped, he asked what the difference was.
Chairperson Ferguson indicated that if the City didn't approve their plans to
their liking, they could also withhold the dedication of open space.
Mr. Selzer said that was correct if the City didn't approve the plans
consistent with the terms of this agreement.
Chairperson Ferguson noted that basically they were holding the balance of the
acreage over the City's head.
Mr. Selzer disagreed. He said that after 30 years of doing documents
like this, notwithstanding that these were words drafted by one person,
reviewed by the City Attorney, the Planning Commission and the City
r.,. Council, none of whom might be here when this property is developed.
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MAY 20, 1997
�
While he wanted to believe that the document answers all the questions �
with respect to the development, his experience told him that seldom „�
was the case and there were always questions. In discussing this with
Councilman Crites specifically, they offered to dedicate in phases for
that very reason. It was to keep the playing field level. He said
Chairperson Ferguson suggested that they were somehow holding this
over the City, but he was suggesting that the only benefit of this
property to them was if, as, and when they could develop the property.
If they could not develop it, they would not make the dedication. If
they don't develop it, it all remains as open space. In talking with
Buford Crites and Jean Benson, which was the term they agreed upon,
that would keep the playing field level and it would allow both parties
to go forward in good faith to make sure that the development occurred
in the way agreed upon in the document. He didn't see it as holding
anything over the City's head. The City controlled whether or not this
property eventually developed.
Chairperson Ferguson asked if the parties could move forward in good faith by
the complete dedication of open space and the pledge and covenants by the
City to operate in the manner Mr. Selzer was suggesting and that if there was
a breach by either party, that this become the operative document for a
lawsuit.
Mr. Selzer thought that Chairperson Ferguson, as an attorney, knew the
value of lawsuits and how expensive they are. He thought that was a �
very second rate alternative--they were expensive, cumbersome and
seldom served anyone any purpose. The reason for the phased
dedication was that the City would always be 100 acres ahead. The
first dedication was a "gimme" and was there in advance. The balance
of the dedication was done pro rata based upon the 151 units as the
projects were approved consistent with the agreement. The other
reason that they have proposed this was that there were other
governmental entities to whom they must go to before this project
would ever happen, including the Department of Fish and Game, and
the Fish and Wildlife Service, to deal with Bighorn sheep issues in
particular. After a great deal of experience with those entities, even
though this document says they get credit for dedications, in fact a
dedication once made has a great deal less weight with those entities
than a dedication promised but not yet made. He said he could assure
commission that they would stand ready with Fish and Game and Fish
and Wildlife to offer that same dedication. They, however, do not have
those approvals yet and were reluctant to give up title to that property
prior to securing it.
Chairperson Ferguson said he wanted to clear up something that Mr. Selzer
said earlier about not knowing who would subsequently be on City Council--he
asked if Mr. Selzer's document provided that no entity of the City for the next
20 years could amend, change or substantively alter this document.
Mr. Selzer concurred, unless they agreed to the change. k
�
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MAY 20, 1997
Chairperson Ferguson noted that it wouldn't matter what the composition of
`,,,,, the council was, this document would govern.
Mr. Selzer stated that he would like to believe that everyone would read
the same meaning into these words as he intended them to have and
that when they were finished here tonight and after the City Council
meeting, but over time subsequent developers as well as City Council
and Planning Commissioners may read into this document different
nuances to what is in the document. That was their concern.
MR. CALVIN CREE, 47-400 South Cliff Road in Palm Desert, stated that
he has lived here since 1973 and he wanted to make a few comments
about this project in support. He said for the past 24 years he has
hiked that hill probably no less than very few people in this valley,
except for some ancient Cahuilla Indians, so he knew this area
intimately and after studying the land use plan, he thought it was very
environmentally sensitive to the surrounding area. He said he heard a
comment made that there might be a conspiracy or something to not
notify people within a 350' perimeter of this site and said that the
reason he knew about this project was because having lived there so
long, he made it his business to know what is going on in that area. He
indicated he lives in Section 30 and that it was surveyed by the federal
government in 1947 for federal land grants and it was put out for
homesteading in 1958. The west boundary and south boundary of
Section 30 contained several five acre parcels and on the west portion
,,,,�, there were three and a half acre parcels that were not homesteaded
because they were either inaccessible or in a wash area. He heard a
comment that Councilman Crites mentioned that he is adjacent to the
project. Mr. Cree said he didn't believe he is and Councilman Crites has
property on two one-acre parcels off of Chapel Hill Lane and there were
a couple of five acre parcels between this site and his property like
there were some BLM parcels between Mr. Cree's property and they
have 30 acres in Section 30 and this section. He felt it would be very
compatible with the desert park area that they have dedicated in that it
is adjacent to these parcels that are still owned by the Bureau of Land
Management and were not developed and would probably not be
developed in the foreseeable future. He also commented that in the 24
years that he has been here he has witnessed a lot of growth in the flat
lands. They have hillside property and he thought it was interesting that
he has seen the entire city evolve and mature with the exception of
Section 30 and in 1990 or 1991 everyone in the city was mailed a
notice that there was a 520 million redevelopment bond for improving
streets and public right of ways and he thought it was interesting that
every portion of the incorporated city of Palm Desert was affected by
this redevelopment bond except Section 30 where they live. He
remembered going to someone in Redevelopment and meeting with
them and commenting about this and that person told him off the record
that the City would rather assume that the hillside doesn't exist. He
was in support of this project because he believed that there was finally
a chance for the City to start paying attention to this area that in his
�, opinion has been very neglected. He thought that this area, especially
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in Section 30, was for the most part inaccessible to a lot of traffic so �
his section got a lot of illegal trash dumping and drug use and he hikes �
and runs in that area almost daily and he sees needles and felt it was a
haven for felons and illegal activity. He also said he was excited that
the City might start paying attention to this area to help it redevelop and
catch up with the rest of the incorporated areas.
Chairperson Ferguson said he hoped that Mr. Cree didn't hear the word
conspiracy from the commission and explained that the City has a standard
300 foot radius notice procedure and the observation was that it doesn't
always work in every situation and suggested that this might be one of them.
Also, he indicated that he walked the property and all the developable areas
both in the city and county and he began from Councilman Crites' property,
so he thought it was close enough to merit notice in his opinion and that was
where that comment came from.
DR. JERRY MEINTZ stated that he has been a resident of Palm Desert
for 32 years and has been living in the Cahuilla Hills since returning
from Vietnam in 1972. He said he was one of the few residents living
in Section 36 of the Cahuilla Hills that can actually see this project.
Most of the people that have addressed the issues, whether pro or con,
couldn't even see the development at all, unless they come into their
area and there were about ten homeowners in that area that would be
able to view the project. He said he has been opposed to this project
for about 32 years. When he came to know the Miller family and ;
realized that private property is private property and development �
continues to happen in the desert, he decided to give up a role of being
obstructionistic and decided that if he was going to have any impact on
this project, he should get involved, learn about it and understand it so
that he could address issues that are of real concern. What he found
over the years in working with individuals, with planning, staff and City
Council because he has written letters and been outspoken, was that
this project had some problems initially and has some merits. First,
there was no hilltop construction and as a naturalist, or a recovering
naturalist because he no longer believes that it is his right to dictate to
people that own private property what they can do with it, he believed
it was the responsibility of the governing agencies to dictate what is
okay or not okay. The militance was gone but the need to set
standards, boundaries and to address issues was still very much alive
and well in his mind. Also, they have been hearing about the
ecologically protective nature of the development and being the sceptic
that he is, he said he went to Scottsdale and visited Desert Mountain
and Troon and the description that they heard earlier this evening was
happening there; 10,000 feet are fenced off and people couldn't touch
anything outside of it. He said they have to respect nature and develop
within the context of what nature has dictated without violating it. He
felt that many of the residents that live in Cahuilla Hills do just that. He
stated that his house is very strangely shaped because he and Craig
Davenport rolled boulders around creosote bushes to save those bushes-
-they thought they were significant and important. What he was really i
suggesting was that development needed to fit the natural contours of �
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the land and this was the only project he has seen in the desert that has
�., even proposed that and after coming back from Scottsdale and looking
very carefully at these proposals and plans and talking for hours in
depth with these developers, he believed they intended to do that. His
problem has not necessarily been with the developers, but with the
City. Their history has been stopping Rancho Bella Vista which most
of the Cahuilla Hills residents did effectively when the city was in its
infancy and they proposed nearly 1 ,000 units and a major hotel and
were going to do just what the City allowed Bighorn Golf Club to do and
when he heard the debate here this evening about granting on these
properties incrementally, he was in favor of it because he hasn't been
able to trust the City. The City and Bighorn promised that there would
be no leveling of hills or mass development up on the hillsides of that
property. The Bighorn developers courted all of them in the community
of Cahuilla Hills and promised that they wouldn't do those kinds of
things, yet behind closed doors decisions were later made that undid
those agreements, so he was really concerned that the City hold the
developer's feet to the fire and do exactly what is agreed upon and also
that they hold the City's feet to the fire to make sure they don't make
any deals later on down the road. With the changing nature of the City
Council and Planning Commission, for him those were very real
concerns because he has seen those agreements fall apart and people
go back on their word and he didn't want to see it happen again..
Another issue he wanted to address was low level density. He thought
that clearly with 750 acres, giving 90% back for open space was his
;�„�, idea of how development should happen in the Cahuilla Hills. Most of
the residents have open space between their properties and enjoy hiking
and running with their dogs and doing things that people go to the
hillsides to do. The next important issue to him was that there was no
golf course and he didn't want to sound prejudiced against golfers and
he wasn't, but he didn't like golf courses or greenbelts and he didn't like
"Orange County" and that "nonsense" being imported into the desert
and as far as he was concerned the beautiful property up there in
Section 30, 32 and 36 was pristine and was God's country and should
be left just as natural as Eden. In addition, he agreed with Mr. Cree.
Not only has his section been sorely overlooked in terms of amenities,
so has theirs. The difference was they didn't want heip--they were a
County community and they liked it that way and didn't want paved
roads or curbs and didn't want to be told that they couldn't have their
motor homes parked on the street. They are up there because they
didn't want to be part of the low lands. They wanted their open space
and to live on their ranches with the freedom to live in nature. He
thought that what this project did for them was help enhance the value
of their properties. He also indicated that there has been a shared
relationship in planning a secondary emergency access route. He noted
that Cahuilla Hills didn't have one and though they haven't had a fire
that blocked their entry way, they have had floods that blocked the
entry way and he said people die when there is no secondary
emergency access and that was why developments today required it.
The folks at the Crest could, if there was an emergency and they
,r�, couldn't exit their main road, they could go through a crash gate and
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MAY 20, 1997
s
use the Cahuilla Hills, but more importantly the people of Cahuilla Hills :
could do just the same and they have seen neighbor's lives lost because �
response time wasn't quick enough and they also knew that
emergencies happened. Another issue was that this development was
compatible and would respect the rustic natural character of the hills
and they didn't want it changed or ultra developed. They wanted it
pretty much the same as it has always been. He suggested that while
Scottsdale, Desert Mountain and Troon, were all cutting edge
developments that tend to protect the majority of the open space for
everyone to use, appreciate and admire, there was no such development
in this desert. It was all "Orange County", even Bighorn had become
a disappointment and he was frankly excited to see that someone was
courageous enough to try and protect the open spaces and dedicate
most of what was there back to the people. His sense about it was
that this project has value, it has benefit to Cahuilla Hills, and as long
as this low density was held to and as long as there were no eleventh
hour deals being made, this would be a good project. Some of the
people in the Cahuilla Hills had asked them, because he is co-chairman
of the road committee, to ask this developer to pave their emergency
access road all the way to where their pavement stops. Other residents
of Cahuilla Hills didn't want pavement and they were content with soil,
cement or nothing at all. His request was that whatever this
commission approves, that they take a look at the area of Section 36
and at the folks by Calvin Cree and make sure they are not harmed by
this project--that things that happen are beneficial and supportive to :
their way of life. Finally, he said it was amazing to him to see how the �
City has supported the residents of Cahuilla Hills. The Council
authorized the purchase of an acre of land for their children's bus stop
and the City, together with Edison and Sun Bus, provided a safe bus
stop. Bighorn, in trying to redress some of their wrongs, had
landscaped that area in the community and ultimately, even though they
wanted to remain free and open and County, they felt that the City had
a responsibility to look out for them and make sure things happen the
way they should. He says he has never seen a developer that has
offered this much to the people, the community, or to this city and for
those reasons, he was in support of this project.
Chairperson Ferguson asked if anyone wished to speak in OPPOSITION to the
proposed project.
MR. PAUL BOWIE, 71-774 Chuckawalla, stated that he forwarded the
letter which was in the commission's packet regarding the emergency
access road. He informed commission that he was not exactly against
the project, however, the matter of the emergency road he thought was
just a little undefined and was open to interpretation at some other
point in time. He indicated the importance of safety could never be
overlooked. He thought that primarily as stated in his letter the
developer should be asked to, with his staff, provide the secondary ,
access as he indicated more directly toward Highway 74 which could :
be accomplished very simply. On the other hand, the matter that was �
just discussed regarding a crash gate of which there was no discussion �
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MAY 20, 1997
in any staff document, didn't exist. He could foresee the possibility that
i,,,, the emergency access through Section 36 could become a secondary
road convenient for various parties and he didn't want to accuse anyone
of anything, but a lot of various kinds of traffic could start coming back
and forth through there because they didn't want to be bothering
someone else down at the main gate who lives up there and so forth.
He thought it was prudent at this point in time while the door of
opportunity was open for Planning Commission to take the matter of
the emergency access and direct it back to staff for clarification and if
there is a wish to have a crash gate, they could talk about a crash gate
here and now. He wouldn't want to defer the health, safety or welfare
of anyone to some other time after some door of opportunity was
closed to find out that things don't work out as well as they could have
at the very beginning. He said that was the summation of his
comments.
MS. CINDY DAVENPORT, 48-010 Painted Canyon, stated that like Mr.
Bowie she was not against the project, but her main concern was the
emergency exit which would be right by her home. She asked if it
would be an emergency access or a service entrance. That was her
main concern.
Mr. Miller readdressed the commission. He clarified that the emergency
exit would only be used for emergencies. He explained that one way
to create value in a high end type of development was through security
,�, and there would be a gate guard at the bottom of their project.
Ms. Davenport asked Mr. Miller if service vehicles would be able to use
the emergency access.
Mr. Miller replied absolutely not. He said it would be very inconvenient
to use Painted Canyon and was way out of the way and wondered why
anyone would use a dirt road for construction trucks when they could
use a paved access road that was 30 feet wide and built right.
Secondly, the crash gates themselves would be on their property which
they would control because they wanted to control any ingress or
egress. They didn't want people driving through their development.
Chairperson Ferguson asked if the crash gate would have cut-locks on there
for emergency purposes so that the Fire Department could gain access and no
one else other than emergency vehicles.
Mr. Miller concurred. He indicated that it was not a public street and
it would be used for emergencies.
Chairperson Ferguson asked if there was anything else Mr. Miller would like to
put into the record.
Mr. Miller replied no, other than he felt the emergency access would
benefit everyone.
�r.
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
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Commissioner Beaty asked if Mr. Miller felt the issue of the crash gate or
emergency access was addressed in the document. Others apparently were �
not comfortable with what they have read.
Mr. Miller felt it was accurately addressed in the document because
they talk about emergency access and it was not their desire to have a
public street with people coming into their development.
Commissioner Beaty asked if Mr. Miller would have a problem if the language
was made clearer and binding.
Mr. Miller said that they could certainly work out some agreement that
made sense.
Mr. Joy suggested that language be included in the development agreement.
Chairperson Ferguson closed the public hearing and asked for commission
comments.
Chairperson Ferguson said he would offer a couple of observations, but
wanted to address a few comments by the applicant. Chairperson Ferguson
stated that conceptually he was very much in favor of the project and lived in
Scottsdale for five years in the very areas Mr. Miller was talking about and he
also visited there two months ago and felt it was a beautiful way to develop
the desert and was environmentally sound and made sense. As indicated, he >
also walked through the entire bowl area that was proposed for development, �
as well as the lower city section, and felt it made sense and was a good
development as far as he could tell. His concerns with the project were not
substantive, except to a minor degree, and those were things that they had
discussed regarding the water tanks, sewage lines, etc., and the issue of the
emergency access road. The people in that section were sensitive to the fact
that every morning they see all the workers line up at Bighorn on their property
on Cahuilla Way and they block the road making a parking lot out of it. He
noted that the emergency access for this project went through Dr. Meintz's
property and the Davenport property and if it was paved and there was no
issue of a lock on it he felt they were justifiably concerned that this would
become a service entrance. Having said that he noted that he spent about 20
hours going through the PCD document and noticed that it was sort of scaled
back from the original proposal of about 200 lots and he noted a number of
internal inconsistencies which he had also shared with Mr. Miller and staff and
made part of the record tonight by way of his notes. The problem he had with
this was not the inconsistencies and not where he and the applicant thought
they were heading on this, because he didn't feel they had an issue there. The
problem was that the development agreement made the PCD document the
bible for the next 20 years and as Mr. Selzer pointed out, future councils might
not see things as clearly as Mr. Selzer does at this point. Chairperson
Ferguson said that he does not see things as clearly as Mr. Selzer with one
reading of the document and he thought that much could be done to make it
clearer. He had taken note of the request for a continuance and what he �
believed to be insufficient notice, and given the peculiar circumstances of this
project, he would like to afford everyone the opportunity to speak to this �
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project. They have been here some time tonight and he had not heard anyone
�,,,,� speak in opposition to it, but they have had some concerns that he believed
needed to be addressed. He suggested that commission consider continuing
this for two weeks to allow the applicant the opportunity of cleaning up the
PCD document. As he noted earlier staff indicated there were at least ten
maps that bore no resemblance to the current proposal. There were ten or so
internal inconsistencies and ambiguities that he himself pointed out and during
that same period he would like to see if the City Attorney and Pianning
Director could take another look at this development agreement, which he
personally viewed as one sided and not fair to the City. He said he did take
somewhat personally the comments about residents who don't trust their city.
He viewed the commission's role and his in particular as a servant of the public
trust and it was the public trust he was looking out for by requesting an
additional two weeks to review the development agreement, to review the
proposal and in contrast to that the Palm Desert Zoning Ordinance for Hillside
Planned Residential at Section 25.15.120 allowed the Planning Commission
to require accurate topographic maps showing the proposed contour of the
land after completion of the proposed grading, a slope analysis of at least five
foot increments, elevations of existing topographic features and the elevations
of any proposed building pads, locations and dimensions of all proposed cut
and fill operations, etc. None of those were contained in the PCD document
and yet the Planning Commission was being asked to adopt that document as
the bible and any deviation would render in jeopardy the dedication of any
open space and Mr. Selzer might take issue with that, but that basically put
a hammer over the Planning Department. If they disagreed with anything from
,,,,� this somewhat ambiguous document, then the whole proposal in terms of the
dedication of open space would be off. He felt the PCD document could be
made clearer, the development agreement could be made fairer and he thought
the project could perhaps sail through whereas in the past it has met with
some resistance at levels beyond the Planning Commission. That was the
reason for his request for a continuance and he said he wanted to punctuate
that with his support of what the applicant is trying to do and his desire not
to see them run into the same snags in the future.
Commissioner Campbell stated that she was in favor of the project and liked
it and voted for it two years ago, but with all the unresolved questions about
the development agreement, she would move to continue this matter two
weeks. Commissioner Beaty said he would second the motion. Mr. Joy
clarified that the requirement about the topographical information and those
items were shown on actual subdivision maps. Chairperson Ferguson said that
was his point. Mr. Joy indicated that if they were working for a couple of
weeks on the development agreement, they might be able to clean up the
language a little bit but they would not be able to supply any of that
information to the commission. Chairperson Ferguson stated that there was
no request in the motion for that to be done, he was simply pointing out that
if they were a part of the city, which they aren't now, and they were in that
existing zoning, they couldn't come to the commission without that
information. It would be required in an application and the commission didn't
have nearly the specificity and he discussed with Mr. Miller today the
impracticability of providing that information which all the more made him
,�, reluctant to approve a document that binds the City and ties their hands and
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MAY 20, 1997
;
future councils for 20 years and lacks the specificity that he would have liked ;
to have seen. He merely suggested the continuance to allow the documents �
to be cleaned up. Chairperson Ferguson reopened the public hearing and asked
for a vote on the motion.
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner Beaty,
continuing C/Z 90-12 Amendment #1 Development Agreement to June 3,
1997 by minute motion. Carried 4-0-1 (Commissioner Jonathan abstained).
IX. MISCELLANEOUS
A. Case No. C/Z 97-5 - PALM SPRINGS BEVERLY ROAD ASSOCIATES,
Applicant
Consideration of a resolution of denial to a request for approval
of a change of zone to apply the Freeway Commercial Overlay
Zone to one of the remaining vacant pads at the Lucky Center at
the southwest corner of Washington Street and 42nd Avenue
(Hovley Lane East) in order to permit a Jack in the Box restaurant
with drive-thru facility.
Mr. Smith explained that this matter was before the Planning Commission at
the last meeting. At that time staff did not have a resolution either in favor or ;
opposition to the request prepared. If commission adopted this resolution �
tonight, it would be a denial without prejudice which would allow the applicant
to subsequently amend his application and the City could at some point in the
future perhaps review a drive-through restaurant on this site pursuant to a
request for a development agreement and enter the process in that manner.
Staff suggested that commission adopt the resolution.
Action:
Moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner Fernandez,
approving the findings as presented by staff. Carried 5-0.
Moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner Fernandez,
adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 1807, denying C/Z 97-5.
Carried 5-0.
B. DISCUSSION OF APPROVAL HISTORY OF LUCKY CENTER AT
WASHINGTON STREET AND HOVLEY LANE EAST.
Mr. Smith indicated that pursuant to the direction of the Commission at their
last meeting, staff undertook a more comprehensive review of what transpired
as best as staff could figure it out. Mr. Drell had an extensive discussion with
Paul Clark, the Principal Planner for the County, and basically staff's report of
May 15 outlined that while the applicant filed an application in March of 1994, ;
he had a previous conceptual approval for a drive-through. Then in March of �
1994 he filed for the specific drive-through and had a hearing set for May 19, �
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
MAY 20, 1997
1994. In actuality the annexation stepped in on April 3 so there was never
�.,, any action taken by County Planning or County Planning Commission. There
were letters between Shirley Lu and Ray Diaz on March 21 and March 22
where in Mr. Diaz's letter he states that this right continues for as long as the
County plot plan approval was granted. Staff worked on the premise that it
would be approved on May 8, 1994. In actual fact it did not occur. He
indicated that another interesting fact was that even if it did occur, it was only
good for two years and would have expired on May 19 or 20, 1996. Staff
suggested that commission receive and file staff's report. Commission
concurred.
Action:
None.
C. DISCUSSION REGARDING GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT FROM HIGH
DENSITY RESIDENTIAL TO OFFICE PROFESSIONAL ON CERTAIN
ARTERIAL STREETS (I.E., FRED WARING BETWEEN SAN PASCUAL
AND PORTOLA AND DEEP CANYON ROAD ACROSS FROM THE
LUCKY SITE).
Mr. Smith stated that he passed out some maps with some areas highlighted
on it and explained that staff received a proposal on the Fred Waring site to
amend the zone there to Office Professional to allow the conversion of a
residential dwelling to office use. At the present time the General Plan in that
,,,,,, area was high density residential. On the Deep Canyon property across from
Lucky's the Core Area Specific Plan brought the office professional designated
property to the first lot, so there was the Godecke office building plus the
residential lot to the north designated for Office Professional, and then
everything to the north of that was low density residential. With the Lucky's
opening and an application to change the zone on the first lot which would be
before commission on June 3, staff felt it might be in order to amend the
General Plan Land Use Element in each area to Office Professional. Mr. Smith
felt it was the most likely long term land use solution for those two areas and
unless commission had concern with that, staff would initiate that process.
Commissioner Campbell asked about two lots by Ramona Avenue and Deep
Canyon. Mr. Smith explained that there were single family homes on lots 3
and 4. Commissioner Campbell asked about the northerly lot. Mr. Smith
explained that they operate a grading business out of the westerly end of the
lot on Ramona (lot 3) and lot 4 only had a single family residence on it. Mr.
Smith noted that the lot shown as #16 immediately south of the one just
discussed was a vacant lot used for storage purposes, but the northerly limit
of the commercial property on the Lucky's site lines up between the properties
known as 44-755 and 44-705. When adjacent or across from a commercial
situation, the argument could be made that they are making a land use
transition, but north of that limit line was Hidden Palms and it made it more
difficult to argue that it was necessary to go to the higher land use category.
Commissioner Jonathan asked if this area was covered by the Palma Village
�, Plan. Mr. Smith replied that it is. Commission Jonathan requested clarification
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
MAY 20, 1997
that a general plan amendment was still required. Mr. Smith explained that ;
right now the areas were designated Office Professional or High Density �
Residential and everything north was designated as Low Density Residential
under the Palma Village Plan. Commissioner Jonathan noted that was not part
of the transition area as identified in the plan. Mr. Smith said that was right
in that the area was residential until the rezoning on the Lucky's site occurred
in 1994.
Chairperson Ferguson asked how staff would handle this procedurally and if
a general plan amendment would be noticed and a public hearing held. Mr.
Smith concurred. Chairperson Ferguson asked if Hidden Palms would be
invited to comment on it. Mr. Smith stated that the ones within the 300 foot
boundary would be notified.
Chairperson Ferguson asked if staff wanted any kind of a motion. Mr. Smith
replied no and indicated staff would proceed as long as commission didn't
disagree.
Commissioner Campbell asked for clarification about some of the lots Mr.
Smith had colored in blue on their map. Mr. Smith explained that was the land
where a gentleman wanted to propose a change of zone to Office Professional,
but since he wasn't consistent with the General Plan, staff was not in a
position to accept the application, so now staff could because they would
begin the process to change the General Plan.
Action: a
None. ""�
X. COMMITTEE MEETING UPDATES
A. CIVIC CENTER STEERING COMMITTEE - (No meeting)
B. DESERT WILLOW COMMITTEE - (May 13, 1997)
Commissioner Beaty noted that it was a lengthy meeting and they
discussed ideas for entry signs. He also indicated they discussed the
pre-qualification of bidders for the next golf course. He noted that all
of the contractors for the existing course had not been paid by the
general and in his opinion he thought it was making the City look bad.
He heard today that they still had not been paid and there was a
comment made that those checks would be available last Friday. He
said that at this point in time, the current contractor would not be
considered for the south course until he corrects these issues.
C. ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ADVISORY COMMITTEE - (May 15 , 1997)
Commissioner Jonathan felt the most relevant matter to commission
that was discussed was the proposal by Lowe Enterprises at the ;
southwest corner of Highway 1 1 1 and EI Paseo. He noted that this �
proposal would avoid any traffic in terms of ingress and egress from the �
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
MAY 20, 1997
street near Sandpiper. He noted that they were proposing a shopping
.i.,, center with three anchor tenants. One tenant that was interested was
Bristol Farms similar to Trader Joe's and perhaps a large bookstore like
Barnes and Noble, who was looking to move into a larger facility, whose
store was only 10,000 square feet and their signature stores were
25,000 square feet and two stories. He heard that Barnes and Noble
woufd like to stay in Palm Desert, but they needed additional space. He
said there would be traffic flow issues that commission would be
considering and he felt that Sandpiper residents would be at the
commission meeting to offer testimony. He also noted that there was
a traffic and foot bridge across the channel to connect into the Desert
Crossing Shopping Center.
D. PROJECT AREA 4 COMMITTEE - (May 19, 1997)
Commissioner Campbell said that the committee moved to vote against
the drive-through Jack in the Box restaurant for the Lucky's center on
Washington Street. Only one man was in favor of the proposal and he
felt that people using their golf carts could easily access the drive-
through. Commissioner Campbell also noted that there was an ARCO
going in on the east side of Washington Street at 42nd and it was in the
County. The committee also prioritized areas for improvements such as
the Fred Waring parking improvement, a neighborhood park, and the
parkway landscape land on Oasis Club Drive between Hovley Lane East
and Country Club Drive and the side walks and the perimeter walls
,`,, between Idaho and Kansas Streets. She indicated that she was late for
the meeting and asked Mr. Smith to explain what discussion took place
regarding the allowance of horses. Mr. Smith explained that the issue
of the horses was re-noticed and would be back before City Council on
June 12. The Project Area 4 Committee discussed it at length and
indicated that the Osbornes circulated a draft ordinance of their own
along with a letter. The feeling of the committee was that the
information in the letter was not completely accurate so there would be
a letter written to the Osbornes and copied to the City Council outlining
the committee's understanding of the facts.
E. PALM DESERT/RANCHO MIRAGE MONTEREY AVENUE CORR(DOR
PLANNING WORK GROUP - (No meeting)
F. ZONING ORDINANCE REVIEW COMMITTEE - (May 15, 1997)
Commissioner Campbell felt the most important item discussed was
that on Friday, May 30, 1997 they would be going to the freeway to
view some logos that would be hanging from cranes so that they would
be able to evaluate the distance and size. Mr. Smith noted that date
would also be a study session for the Planning Commission, which
would be 9:00 a.m. on Friday, May 30. If the commission wanted to
meet at City Hall there would be transportation available, or they could
meet at Gerald Ford and Cook on the northeast corner around 8:45 a.m.
He indicated that Fairway Outdoor Advertising would have a crane on
� the site and they would hold up various sized logos in an area that
25
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
MAY 20, 1997
would be approximately where any signage would be placed on the site. �
He noted that the City Council and Architectural Review Commission �i
would also be there. He explained that when the Freeway Commercial
Overlay Ordinance went to council, there was a provision in it for
signage that was a maximum of 175 square feet and would allow up to
six logos within that 175 square feet. It became evident that given the
setback distance from the travel lanes on the freeway that 175 square
feet might not be adequate. He felt the May 30 visit would tell them
what it would take to create something that would be visible and
readable. If it took 600 square feet, then it would have to be decided
if that was something the City would consider. Mr. Smith noted that
staff inet with Caltrans on May 9 and discussed the possibility of
proceeding with their logo identification program on the freeway. While
it was provided for in recent legislation, they had not done it in
Southern California. He indicated that it was in evidence in Northern
California on I-5 and also in Nevada and Arizona, where they have a
sign immediately adjacent to the slow travel lane that says food and
below it a bunch of logos of concessionaires at the next exit. Those
signs were done within three quarters of a mile to a mile and a half of
the exit and then there was a second sign on the exit ramp. In talking
to the Director of Caltrans for this area, they were quite anxious for
Palm Desert to become what they were calling the "pilot project".
Given that they would likely see that program happen, then he wasn't
sure where the City would head toward onsite signs and how big and
high they would be allowed. With the demonstration program on the ;
30th, they would have a better idea of what it would really take to �
accomplish it and if they were going to approach it that way.
Commissioner Jonathan asked for and received clarification on the
details on the time and place of that meeting. Mr. Smith stated that
there would be a couple of vans available, but suggested they take
individual cars in order to better view the signs. He noted that they
would drive the freeway down to Washington Street and then back to
Monterey. He thought it might take an hour in that they would have the
signs at various heights, sizes and colors on the logos.
XI. COMMENTS
1 . Mr. Smith noted that at the last meeting someone had a question about
the operation of a church at the Vacation Inn/Pasta House. He said he
gave Marilyn Molde at Vacation Inn a call and she said that weekend
they had a group of women that took 44 rooms in the hotel and they
ran services that weekend in the Pasta House. That was the extent of
it, though it might become an annual event. Commissioner Beaty asked
if there was a parking problem. Mr. Smith said he hadn't heard of one.
2. Chairperson Ferguson noted that at the last meeting the public hearing .
on the Corn lot was closed and he would reopen it when it was before
the commission at their next meeting. ?
�
26
_ _ __
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
MAY 20, 1997
3. Chairperson Ferguson stated that he had been asked about Mr. Muro
•.► and the health club use at the northeast corner of Portola and Highway
1 1 1 and asked when that use would be discontinued. Mr. Smith said
it was his understanding that it was supposed to have been
discontinued now. Chairperson Ferguson asked if there was
prospectively a deadline or if Mr. Muro was supposed to be out. Mr.
Smith thought he was supposed to be out 30 days ago. Commissioner
Beaty noted that Mr. Drell had said that he was going to send a letter
to Mr. Muro. Commissioner Campbell thought Mr. Drell was going to
give Mr. Muro 30 days to move and that was in April. She noted that
the business was still in operation.
4. Commissioner Jonathan stated that he appreciated the Chairman's
diligence in reviewing the development agreement that was before the
commission tonight, but he thought it demonstrated that it took the
focus away from the actual development and the issues that the
commission needed to be more focused on. He noted that it got the
commission into legal areas that he was not comfortable with. He
asked how other cities deal with this and if there were other cities
where their Planning Commission wasn't asked to pass along a
development agreement to the City Council since they were the ultimate
arbiters on those issues. He noted there was legal counsel and City
Council and he wished it wasn't necessary for the Planning Commission
to deal with them. He asked if there were alternatives available to the
commission, or if it was something they wanted to think about or if a
r,.► class was available that he could attend. He thought they were always
a problem and took the commission's focus away from the important
business at hand. Mr. Smith thought that the procedure was a
necessary evil in that they when they do get to the City Council, they
are adopted by ordinance and the City's Zoning Ordinance stipulates
that the Planning Commission must take an action making a
recommendation. Commissioner Jonathan said he understood the
procedure, but was curious if other cities had adopted other procedures
that eliminated the need for the Planning Commission to deal with
development agreements and on all the legalese that he personally
didn't feel qualified. He noted that Chairperson Ferguson spent 20
hours on the documents and this was his area of training. Chairperson
Ferguson noted that the Katrina Heinrich proposal had a development
agreement which he believed was approved five times by Best, Best &
Krieger on the lega! issues, but was sent back five times because the
planning issues were not adequately addressed. He thought it was
erroneous to say there were primarily legal issues involved in
development agreements. Commissioner Jonathan agreed that they
impact the planning issues, but were framed in legalese and he was not
comfortable with that or the process and knew that in the past there
were other commissioners that used to decry them continuously.
Mr. Selzer addressed the commission and explained that the bottom line
was that state law required that the Planning Commission act on
development agreements. He noted that the commission could just
r..,. blow them off and send them to council. Commissioner Jonathan
27
MINUTES
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
MAY 20, 1997
:�
acknowledged that they were a necessary evil and he would just have �
to get used to them. He aiso noted that on occasion the commission �
had sent them to council without comment. Chairperson Ferguson
indicated that for the Intrawest development agreement the focus
shifted in that they were entering into a contract on behalf of the City
or recommending that the City enter into a contract which would take
them into economic issues and whether they were getting a good
bargain, not from a planning standpoint of if it was a good project. He
thought the commission's hang up on that one was that they didn't
have enough information to determine whether it was a good benefit to
the City or not, so the commission passed it to City Council without
recommendation. He thought that tonight was a good example in that
there didn't seem to be any significant planning issues other than some
vagaries, but he wasn't sure the development agreement was the best
bargain. Commissioner Jonathan felt that the cogent arguments that
he has heard against development agreements was if it was even
necessary for the City to enter into a contract with a developer which
then becomes an ordinance. Chairperson Ferguson agreed that it was
an odd thing. Commissioner Jonathan thought that it seemed like it
shouldn't be necessary and yet it was. He said that he would live with
it.
5. Chairperson Ferguson noted that regarding the Crest development the
commission didn't take up the concept of expanding the notice and
asked if that could be done at the staff level or if it required a vote. He �
indicated that for the continued hearing, he would like the notice to go �
to the rest of the Cahuilla f-�ills residents, not just the ones across the
wash. Mr. Smith noted that the problem was that the hearing was
continued to June 3. Chairperson Ferguson asked if that meant staff
couldn't get the notice out in time. Mr. Smith said no and Mr. Selzer
concurred that it wouldn't work. Commissioner Beaty asked if the City
could send a courtesy notification. Chairperson Ferguson also asked if
a letter could at least be sent to the Bighorn Homeowners Association
and if the Cahuilla Hills Homeowners Association was still in existence.
Mr. Selzer replied that he didn't know, but the process was that they
go to a title company and request the name of every property owner
within 300 feet. They were then provided with the notice labels. For
a hearing two weeks from now there was no way they could have a
title company do that work. Chairperson Ferguson suggested that it be
done at the staff level informally. Mr. Selzer felt that they wouldn't be
able to get it out in time. Mr. Smith stated that he was reluctant to say
that the City should do that because there were noticing time frames
that they wouldn't be able to meet. Even if they didn't call it a legal
notice, someone might construe it as a legal notice and they would
suddenly be in violation because a courtesy notice was sent.
Chairperson Ferguson asked if it would be okay to respond to the three
people in Bighorn who submitted letters and say that the Planning
Commission took note of their letters and continued the matter to June
3 and for them to kindly inform their neighbors if they felt it was �
appropriate. There would be no published notice of this because of
timing factors. Mr. Smith concurred. ,�
28
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
MAY 20, 1997
�„�, XII. ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Campbeli, seconded by Commissioner Fernandez,
adjourning the meeting by minute motion. Carried 5-0. The meeting was
adjourned at 9:07 p.m.
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PHILIP f3R�L Secre�t,arv�_
ATTEST.
JAMES ATO U ON, hairperson
Palm D sert Plannin ,Cor�n ission
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29
EXHIQIT A
CRE5T DEVELOPMENT
I Inconsistencies
A. Roads
cf. Tab A & B
B. Lots
cf. p. 15 lower lots (Tab A)
Tab B
C. Open Space
Desert Park Section of County Parcel
Miller & Selzer say Open Space p. 13
See also p. 14 & p. 15
D. Development Standards
p. 41 PCD/HPR
cf. p. 7 DA
II Ambiguities
A. 2 Access Roads
cf. p. 12 & Tab B
B. Emergency Access
cf. Ex 15 "bat wings"
"Is it really a servants access"
III Visual Impacts
A. Bury Water Tanks
cf. Ex 10, p. 29 & 52
B. Clustering of Lots
cf. p. 16 & 6
C. Above Ground Sewage
cf. p. 21 & Ex 25 p. 60
D. Clustering of Lots
cf. Cluster A & Cluster B
* Expand notice to area of visible impact
IV Required Information
P.D.M.C. � 25 . 15 . 120 A.