HomeMy WebLinkAbout1117 MINUTES
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING
TUESDAY - NOVEMBER 17, 1998
7:00 P.M. - CIVIC CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBER
�.. 73-510 FRED WARING DRIVE
I. CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Campbell called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Chairperson Campbell led in the pledge of allegiance.
III. ROLL CALL
Members Present: Sonia Campbell, Chairperson
Paul Beaty
George Fernandez
Cindy Finerty
Sabby Jonathan
Members Absent: None
Staff Present: Phil Drell, Director of Community Development
Bob Hargreaves, City Attorney
Steve Smith, Planning Manager
Martin Alvarez, Assistant Planner
Mark Greenwood, Transportation Engineer
Tonya Monroe, Administrative Secretary
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Consideration of the November 3, 1998 meeting minutes.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Finerty, seconded by Commissioner Beaty,
approving the November 3, 1998 minutes as submitted. Motion carried 5-0.
V. SUMMARY OF COUNCIL ACTION
Mr. Drell summarized pertinent November 12, 1998 City Council actions.
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
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VI. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
None.
VII. CONSENT CALENDAR
None.
Vill. PUBLIC HEARINGS
Anyone who challenges any hearing matter in court may be limited to raising
only those issues he/she or someone else raised at the public hearing described
herein, or in written correspondence delivered to the Planning Commission at,
or prior to, the public hearing.
A. Case No. CUP 98-4 - CHEVRON PRODUCTS COMPANY, Applicant
(Continued from September 15, October 6, and November 3,
1998) ..J
Request for approval of a conditional use permit to allow the
construction of a 2,900 square foot retail food mart at 72-801
Highway 111 .
Mr. Drell explained that the applicant was requesting another continuance to
further discuss the traffic study. Public Works was satisfied with it, but
apparently the applicant wasn't.
Chairperson Campbell noted that the public hearing was open and asked if
anyone wished to speak in FAVOR or OPPOSITION to the proposal. There
was no one.
Commissioner Jonathan noted that in the September 15 minutes condition
number seven indicated a maximum of 30 feet and asked if that was a
misprint and should be 38 feet. Mr. Drell said it should be 38 feet and there
was some clarification needed. They were showing 44 feet from the outside
to outside aprons and he wasn't sure where the 38 feet was measured. He
suggested that Mr. Greenwood comment on that issue. Mr. Greenwood
clarified that Public Works Condition 7 originally did say 30 feet. After some
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discussion with the applicant it was revised to 38 feet measured from the
southerly edge of the existing driveway so that they would be moving it a few
feet farther away from Highway 111 . Mr. Drell asked if that width was
measured from where the apron meshed with the street or if it was from the
extreme limits where it starts to taper down. Mr. Greenwood noted that
different applicants design them in different ways, but the most common way
was that the driveable area was 38 feet. That would be the area lowered
down to the street. Mr. Drell said that as it is now drawn, he measured the
existing at 40 feet so they were really only talking two feet they would have
to shift it, which was actually influenced by their own curb design.
Commissioner Jonathan thanked staff.
Commissioner Beaty thought this came up at their last meeting. He said that
this was the fourth continuance of this matter and it was a request for
additional communication with the Engineering Department and he asked if Mr.
Greenwood was satisfied with a continuance to December 1 . Mr. Greenwood
said they were satisfied that they have a good description of what to expect
now. He wasn't quite sure what additional study the applicant wants to do.
So far this had been a relatively limited operational study and if they wanted
to do a full in-depth traffic study two weeks wouldn't be enough time.
Commissioner Beaty asked the other commissioners if they thought this should
be continued to a date uncertain and let it be readvertised when the applicant
was ready. Mr. Drell said he believed that on December 1 they would be
prepared and would have a resolution before commission. They weren't
required to acknowledge the continuance request and if they know as much
as they could, they could make a decision. Commissioner Beaty noted there
was a resolution before them this evening. Mr. Drell felt they should be given
another chance. Mr. Greenwood indicated that commission had Public Works'
opinion on this issue and asked if there was anything more the commission
would like them to look at and if they were headed in the right direction.
Commissioner Beaty clarified that they were questioning Chevron, not Public
Works. Mr. Greenwood said he would like the next meeting to be the last one
so if there was anything additional that the commission needed he would like
the opportunity to get it.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Beaty, seconded by Chairperson Campbell, to
continue Case No. CUP 98-4 to December 1 , 1998 by minute motion.
Commissioner Jonathan felt that Commissioner Beaty's point was well taken
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and requested that staff communicate to the applicant that there appears to
be an inclination to move forward with this matter on December 1 , 1998 and
they might be well advised to come here and be prepared with some kind of
presentation. Mr. Greenwood said that they would pass that along to the
project traffic engineer. Chairperson Campbell called for the vote. Motion
carried 4-0-1 (Commissioner Fernandez abstained).
B. Case No. CUP 91-8 Amendment - SOUTHWEST COMMUNITY
CHURCH, Applicant (Continued from October 20, 1998)
Request for approval of a one-year time extension to a
conditional use permit to allow the temporary use of a five-acre
parcel west of the existing facility to locate a 6,400 square foot
classroom building and a 280-space parking lot at 73-251 Hovley
Lane West.
Mr. Drell indicated that some correspondence was received from Southwest
Community Church reiterating their commitment to comply with the permit
and they have replanted eight queen palm trees on the west side of the
temporary building. He noted that Mr. Richards was in the audience to report
on his perception of the current state of affairs.
Chairperson Campbell noted that public hearing was still open and asked if the
applicant wished to address the commission.
MR. JIM RICHARDS, 40-840 Avenida Estrada, said he wasn't with the
church, but they have been in contact with the church administrators
and since the last hearing the neighborhood was very pleased with the
response from the church. He felt that over time they were getting
better communication and the Planning Commission had been a great
help in facilitating this and they were hearing their concerns. The
church was willing to compromise, the neighbors were willing to
compromise and the church had been very proactive since the last
meeting and the neighbors found nothing that was an open item right
now. He thanked the Commission and church for their efforts.
Chairperson Campbell stated that if there were any problems in the future, Mr.
Richards could let the Commission know.
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MR. JERRY WILEY, 40-900 Avenida Estrada, stated that he was one of
the homeowners that lives close to Mr. Richards and he was pleased to
report that they have been working with Southwest Community Church,
with Roger Phillips, and they have resolved all of their issues. Their
commitment was to continue to work with the homeowners in the area
and the homeowners' recommendation was to grant the one year
extension request.
Chairperson Campbell closed the public hearing and for commission comments.
Commissioner Fernandez thanked the neighbors and church for being able to
get together and communicate. He believed if this had happened sooner, they
would have been able to approve the request the last time. He was pleased
and was in favor of the program and extension of one year.
Commissioner Beaty asked for clarification on the date of the extension--if it
would be from September 30, 1998. Mr. Drell concurred. Commissioner
Beaty asked the church staff if they were comfortable with that date. Mr.
~" Phillips spoke from the audience and said that the continuance to September
30, 1999 was fine. Chairperson Campbell asked if they were planning to be
open in July. Mr. Phillips said they planned to start moving in July and
beginning to have services in September. Chairperson Campbell asked for
other comments or a motion.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Fernandez, seconded by Commissioner Finerty,
approving a one-year time extension of Condition No. 7 by minute motion.
Motion carried 5-0.
C. Case No. PP/CUP 98-17 - T. MICHAEL HADLEY for ROBERT
McLACHLAN, DDS, Applicant (Continued from November 3, 1998)
Request for approval of a precise plan of design/conditional use
permit to construct a 9,312 square foot dental office and
Negative Declaration of Environmental Impact as it relates thereto
on the C-1 (general commercial) zoned property at the southwest
corner of Highway 1 1 1 and Portola Avenue, APN 627-222-054.
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Mr. Smith noted that the site plan and colored elevation plans were on display.
He indicated that the site at the southwest corner of Portola and Highway 1 1 1
was formerly occupied by ARCO. It has been vacant for some time since
ARCO relocated to the north side of Highway 111 . There is an existing
frontage road across the north end of this site which connects to Portola
Avenue. As a part of this application that portion of the frontage road would
be vacated. The frontage road would turn southerly and connect into the
Presidents Plaza parking lot. The goal was to remove that intersection from
Portola to try and improve traffic flow. The request was for a two-story dental
office building with customer service on the first floor and a laboratory on the
second floor and general office space on the second floor also. Along the
westerly portion of the site there was a driveway connection into the
Presidents Plaza parking lot along with seven parking spaces under a carport
structure to provide shade. Access to the site would be from Presidents Plaza
or from the frontage road. There was a slip ramp westerly of this location
which would also provide access to those seven parking spaces. Mr. Smith
noted that the parking requirement was recently amended up to six parking
spaces per 1 ,000 square feet of building with a reduction for nonuseable area. ?
In this case the 15% reduction was warranted in the form of hallways,
stairways, elevators, and mechanical rooms. He noted that the site is adjacent
to Presidents Plaza parking lot. When Presidents Plaza parking lot was
originally constructed the City agreed that vacant parcels could be developed
to one story in height between the setbacks. Mr. Smith said that when you
look at the size of this property it is currently 12,600 square feet. If they take
out the setback areas on the east and north, they were left with a buildable
area on the first floor level of 11 ,400 square feet which equates to 46 parking
spaces which they are entitled to in the Presidents Plaza parking lot. That
coupled with the seven parking spaces provided onsite gives them a total of
53 spaces. They comply with the parking requirement. The architecture was
shown on the colored renderings and was basically desert contemporary and
setbacks were met five feet from the front and sides. Being the street
setbacks, they were not required to have setbacks from the other two
perimeters. Building height would be 29 feet at it maximum point. The code
limit is 30 feet. Staff noted that the upper story was not a full second story.
It is setback considerably from the front. Findings for the approval of the
precise plan and conditional use permit were outlined on pages three and four
of the staff report. The matter was reviewed for compliance with CEQA and
f
a Negative Declaration of Environmental Impact has been prepared. Staff I
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recommended it be certified this evening and concluded that the
recommendation was for approval, subject to the conditions.
Commissioner Jonathan asked for clarification on the parking calculation. He
asked what the approximate size was of the first floor. Mr. Smith replied
6,100 square feet. Commissioner Jonathan said that in their collective
experience most developers tried to maximize the footprint on any given lot,
so it was quite a discrepancy between a 6,100 square foot footprint and
11 ,400. The footprint that exists now would accommodate 6,100 square feet
and presumably if they could have expanded that to 11 ,400 and gone two
stories they could have gotten a 22,800 square foot two story building, yet
their footprint is only 6,100 square feet. Given most developers' tendency to
maximize a footprint on a site, he was wondering if staff's calculation of a
potential 11 ,400 square foot single story building was accurate and if staff
took into account landscaping ratio requirements, parking, traffic, driveways,
sidewalks, setbacks, easements, utilities, etc. Mr. Smith stated that the
property as it presently exists and as shown on the survey attached to the last
page of the plans circulated to commission, they actually did the calculations
and he thought the discrepancy Commissioner Jonathan was observing was
that they were still including the property that is part of the driveway and the
parking on the westerly side of the property. That was at least a third of the
property. In addition, they reduced the five foot setbacks around the perimeter
in both instances. Commissioner Jonathan asked if it was the other layout,
what kind of single story building they could get: 6,000 or 7,000. Mr. Drell
clarified that in the calculation of the existing area of the lot Mr. Smith
included the driveway to the west but it did not include the area shown in
green which was being vacated to the applicant in exchange for the driveway
to the west. Mr. Drell said what was happening here was in the normal
configuration the building could have been built all the way over with a zero
lot line up against the building to the west. Instead, they did an exchange
with the frontage road area being given to the applicant and the applicant was
dedicating roughly an equal area of that driveway. In a normal commercial
project the setback would only have been five feet off of Highway 1 1 1/off the
frontage road in the front. In this case it was a setback of 24 or 25 feet and
that was part of their deal. Commissioner Jonathan asked if that was
consistent with the other properties. Mr. Drell said no, they have a setback
of five feet off of their property line. The alignment was consistent but what
was different was they took property from them on the side and in exchange
we gave them property in the front which they are not utilizing. They were not
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putting a building on it. They were providing greater setbacks in that area,
therefore that area would go into the calculation of how much they would be
entitled to. Commissioner Jonathan said given that arrangement, if they came
into the city, instead of a two-story building and given that configuration with
the reconfiguration of the frontage road and so forth, if they came in with a
single story structure application, if they could built an 11 ,400 square foot
office building there. Mr. Drell said that technically, according to the setbacks,
yes. There was no landscape ratio in the C-1 zone other than landscaping the
required setbacks. Commissioner Jonathan asked if including all the
requirements they could do that. Mr. Drell said that was correct. What was
anomalous here was the city didn't give them that choice. Where they'll do
this frontage road exchange, they didn't let them build out to the corner, but
technically that was real estate they own and they gave them credit for it.
From an aesthetic point of view they didn't want them building out to the
corner but gave them credit in terms of square footage. Under the existing
situation they could have built that 11 ,000 square feet in the normal
configuration. Because of the city's desire to reconfigure the lots and get
property from them for free, they were doing this real estate exchange by
giving them land on the north side which they really couldn't build on and the
city gets land. To make the land the city was giving them have some value,
they were saying they would count it as if they could have built on it with the
single story calculation. Commissioner Jonathan said he understood that but
the perception problem he was having and the "reality check" was the City's
deal on Presidents Plaza parking lot was that they could develop the empty
lots but they would give them credit for a single story structure at four spaces
per 1 ,000 and here comes before the commission a two-story structure
requiring six spaces per 1,000 and the calculation was saying that the parking
requirement was the same. Looking at it, he wondered how the two could be
the same. Mr. Drell clarified that they weren't building setback to setback,
instead of building in that 20 feet in front and since they weren't maximizing
their development on the first floor, they were making up that square footage
on the second floor and were adding seven spaces on their property.
Commissioner Jonathan said he would like to process that, but thought that
part of the reason the developer was doing it was that like most developers,
they weren't magnanimous, they weren't doing it because they want to
beautify our city, but they have an understanding of what they need to do to
get the project passed. He had doubts as to whether a single story 11 ,400
square foot structure with a zero lot line separation from the adjacent building
and five feet from Highway 111 on a busy corner like that would ever be
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passed. Mr. Drell said it would have been five feet from the frontage road
which was the exact same setback as any other building. Commissioner
Jonathan said he would like to process it, but he has looked at that corner,
looked at the plans and he couldn't conceive that the city would ever permit
an 1 1 ,400 square foot building. He heard what Mr. Drell was saying and
would process that information as the discussion continued. Commissioner
Beaty asked for clarification that the request wasn't for 11 ,400 square feet.
Commissioner Jonathan said no. Commissioner Beaty asked if Commissioner
Jonathan was just trying to clarify a point, but wasn't addressing tonight's
issue. Commissioner Jonathan clarified that he was addressing tonight's
issue. Regarding the calculation of parking, the basic deal was that if there
was a building that comes before commission that is single story and has a
normal parking requirement of four per 1 ,000, there was sufficient parking in
Presidents Plaza. What was before them wasn't a four per 1 ,000, it was a
two-story building at six per 1 ,000, both which were deviations from the deal.
His interpretation of what staff was telling commission was that the parking
requirement was the same for this project which is two story six per 1 ,000 as
compared to what is normally permitted in Presidents Plaza under the deal the
city has which is single story four per 1 ,000. That was the reality check
problem he was having. He asked how a single story four per 1 ,000 have the
same parking requirement as a two-story six per 1 ,000. That was where the
paragraph in the staff report was going through a calculation that says in
theory they could have built an 11 ,400 square foot single story building there
and therefore this is the same.
Chairperson Campbell noted that the public hearing was still open and asked
the applicant to address the commission.
MR. MICHAEL HADLEY, 16 Cedar Tree Lane in Irvine, stated that he
was the applicant and architect for the owner of the property, Dr.
Robert McLachlan. As Mr. Smith outlined, when this project first
started the design phase they worked with the Planning Department to
determine the probable realignment of Highway 1 1 1 and Portola and in
particular the abandonment of the frontage road. It was suggested that
they bring it down to the west side of the property as illustrated and
that was accomplished. The Planning Department also assisted them
in the determination of setbacks, parking requirements, building heights
and so forth. He addressed the issue of the size of the building and its
`, orientation. Dr. McLachlan as the owner would also be the occupant
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and this would be his dental practice for the rest of his career and for
his son who had recently joined the practice. It wasn't a commercial
venture in the sense that it is a medical dental building for lease. He
was the sole occupant of the project. It was never their desire to fill the
site. He had specific needs of about an 8,000-10,000 square foot
building. They chose this site because of its location primarily with
respect to Highway 1 1 1 and Portola. There were several reasons they
oriented the building the way it is. For one, he thought it was a real
asset to the city that the El Paseo shops and retail outlets all faced El
Paseo and it was a very pleasant pedestrian experience and vehicular
experience. That didn't work for this project because it is not a strolling
type of building. It is a destination building. The only people coming
there were the patients of the dental office and with the proximity of
the parking in Presidents Plaza it made sense to pull the building all the
way to the Plaza and leave a large setback on Highway 1 1 1 . They also
wanted to do that because Dr. McLachlan was very desirous of this
building being a very nicely sited building with lush landscaping on the
corner. He is participating in the civic art project and there would be a +
large sculpture at the knuckle of the frontage road. With regard to the �t
second story, there were several reasons for wanted to do that as
opposed to a more massively spread out single story building. One was
to keep the traffic of patients and doctors on the first floor as compact
as they could. All the functions on the second floor were secondary to
the actual dental practice. There was a lab up there that patients would
not go to and there were doctors' private offices and a large work room
for staff and that was about it. All the dental functions were on the
first floor. All the private office and lab functions were on the second.
They purposely held the secondary portion of the building back as far
as they could from Highway 1 1 1 to present a lower profile along there.
Chairperson Campbell asked how many employees the doctor would have.
Mr. Hadley said he didn't know, but at present there were five dentists
in the practice and approximately 15 dental assistants and office staff.
Chairperson Campbell asked if that would include laboratory technicians.
Mr. Hadley said yes, but with the exception of the lab personnel, all
other users of the second floor were already onsite. VAJ
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Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to speak in FAVOR or
OPPOSITION to the proposal. There was no one and the public hearing was
closed.
Commissioner Jonathan said he already commented on the parking issue and
couldn't swallow it. Number one, the parking lot was a mess to begin with
and it was already over utilized and under parked and it might be a good
problem to have; nevertheless, it is a problem. Number two, the last dental
office they approved they granted an exception to and he didn't know why
they created an ordinance and then fought so hard and got so creative in
granting exceptions. If they were going to do this with every application, they
should change the ordinance back to four or down to two or eliminate the
parking requirement. It was rare that they actually stick to it. The 15%
reduction was automatic. He didn't know if the ordinance took that into
account or not. Without any scrutiny by the commission the reduction was
automatic and then they grant the exceptions. If the ordinance was wrong,
they needed to change the ordinance. Number three, dental offices in his
personal experience were very busy. He visited his own dentist last week, Dr.
... Baumann, and the only parking spot in that whole long parking area he could
find was over by Holden & Johnson that says they will kick you out if they
catch you there, so he kept looking every few minutes to make sure his car
was taken. They are busy and have a lot of traffic between vendors, patients,
employees and so forth. He felt the six per 1 ,000 was a minimum
requirement. The calculation tried to tell them that a two-story building with
a six per 1 ,000 requirement is the same as a single story with a four per
1 ,000 requirement. He understood the basis but he felt that they were going
overboard to make assumptions that weren't realistic. He didn't think they
would ever allow a 11 ,400 square foot single story building in that corner
whether it technically qualifies under the code or not. There were four
conditional use requirements having to do with whether this is in accord with
the objectives of the zoning ordinance. He disagreed and didn't believe it was
and disagreed with those conclusions. He thought the architecture was nice
and consistent with what they were looking for but to him it was too plain and
needed to be spiced up. It was a very visible and busy corner. He thought the
architect had shown a capacity for creativity and he wasn't talking about a
major change or any major overhauls, but some trellises and points of interest.
It was very bland and flat and he felt that inexpensively they could bring out
some depth and contract, either with wooden trellises or cement with shingles,
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something that would create depth. For those reasons he was not in favor of
approval.
Chairperson Campbell said that she was in the dental business herself
previously and being on El Paseo for 12 years and seeing that corner they way
it's been, she felt this would be a great asset to that corner. With the redoing
of Presidents Plaza East they have gained about 86-89 spaces. She felt that
was working out very satisfactorily right now and people were still learning
how to pull in and out and as far as the second floor, even though this was a
large building there wouldn't be any usage on the second story. She was in
favor of the project. Mr. Drell indicated that Presidents Plaza East gained 70
spaces and Presidents Plaza West gained 140.
Commissioner Beaty said he was a little confused with Commissioner
Jonathan's comments and they could discuss that later and noted that the
staff report said that the project complies with the parking requirement and he
was confused with Commissioner Jonathan's analyses. He asked if
Commissioner Jonathan was in disagreement with that statement. '
Commissioner Jonathan replied yes. Commissioner Beaty asked staff if that
was an incorrect statement. Mr. Drell said that they believe it is in
conformance and there had been no exception. He indicated that Presidents
Plaza is a different animal in that typically 100% of the parking has to be
developed on the pad or lot. Here they have a situation where there was a
12,600 square foot lot that if it were a retail building would not have to
require any parking to be developed on it if the building was developed within
the setbacks. The purpose of the formula in the code as to how could be built
on a Presidents Plaza pad was square footage driven. They use it as an
example single story because that was what they felt was the minimum, but
it was square footage driven. For example, what they did at the other end
with the Gannon building at San Luis Rey where there is a two-story building
they went through the same calculation and came up with a two-story
building, but it was how much they could build on a single story 12,600
square foot lot pursuant to all the codes, all the setbacks and that was where
the 11 ,400 number came from. That was what the purpose of that formula
was, to figure out how much building could be built on that pad and as far as
the parking ordinance was concerned, they could build it in 11 stories as long
as it was still 1 1 ,400 square feet of space. The parking ordinance didn't
recognize or differentiate between square footage in one, two or three stories.
Commissioner Beaty noted they weren't talking about 11 ,000 but 9,300
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minus the 15%. He said he utilizes that end of the parking lot and has never
had a problem parking. He might in the future, but he hasn't to date and he
would accept that. The architecture was reviewed and given approval, so he
was prepared to move for approval.
Commissioner Finerty stated that she concurred with Chairperson Campbell.
If there was any parking problem, it appeared that it would be absorbed by the
additional parking spaces so therefore she didn't see a problem with it and was
in favor.
Mr. Drell said that Mr. Bartlett's other project across the street was going to
include 24 public parking spaces in his Nevada Bob's lot across Portola.
Commissioner Beaty didn't think anyone would cross Portola. Chairperson
Campbell felt that corner would be a great addition.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Beaty, seconded by Chairperson Campbell,
approving the findings as presented by staff. Motion carried 4-1
�••► (Commissioner Jonathan voted no).
It was moved by Commissioner Beaty, seconded by Chairperson Campbell,
adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 1903 approving PP/CUP 98-17,
subject to conditions. Motion carried 4-1 ( Commissioner Jonathan voted no).
D. Case No. CUP 98-17 - PALM ASSOCIATES, LLC, Applicant
Request for approval of a conditional use permit to allow the
conversion of an existing 2,275 square foot building into an El
Pollo Loco restaurant located at 73-495 Highway 1 1 1 .
Mr. Alvarez noted that the site was located at the southwest corner of
Highway 111 and San Pablo Avenue. The existing site has access from
Highway 1 1 1 near Coco's Restaurant. There is an egress point where the
former drive-thru teller for the bank used to be and another ingress/egress
point on San Pablo. The site has an existing 2,275 square foot building which
El Pollo Loco would remodel. The site plan on display provided for a total of
23 parking spaces and two golf cart spaces. The existing building has 1 ,934
square feet of usable area and that was how they determined that the site
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requires 20 spaces. The site plan was modified to eliminate the egress point
onto San Pablo, elimination of the drive-thru of the former bank, the trash
enclosure area was subsequently designed to the south with additional
landscaping added along San Pablo, landscaping would be added on Highway
111 and he noted that the applicant would have to meet the master plan
parking lot tree ordinance with the addition of two more. The restaurant
would have 50 seats, five shift employees and would operate from 1 1 :00 a.m.
to 10:00 p.m. seven days a week. The elevations were on display and the
Architectural Review Commission granted preliminary approval of both the
architecture and landscaping. The architecture as seen was contemporary
Spanish with some 24 foot features added at the corners. He distributed
photographs of the existing site. For purposes of CEQA he stated that the
project was classified as a Class 3 categorical exemption. Staff believed the
findings for the conditional use permit could be made and recommended
approval.
Chairperson Campbell noted that there were two ingress/egress points on San =
Pablo in that area. Mr. Drell concurred. Chairperson Campbell asked if the one
that was going to have the egress closed was actually not shown because
there wasn't a driveway there where the drive-thru used to be to the street.
Mr. Alvarez stated that there was an egress point there that was shown in the
photos. Commissioner Beaty thought it had been closed. Mr. Greenwood
clarified that originally there were three driveways on San Pablo and there
were now today two driveways on San Pablo, none of them adjacent to the
building. The two driveways that exist today were both south of the building.
Chairperson Campbell said that they didn't have to change the egress because
there was no longer a drive-thru right there. Mr. Drell concurred that it was
closed when they widened San Pablo. Chairperson Campbell asked what the
height was of the present building. Mr. Alvarez stated 18 feet at the top of
the roof. Chairperson Campbell asked if they were adding an addition of six
feet. Mr. Alvarez confirmed that the highest architectural element was 24
feet. Chairperson Campbell asked if there would just be one architectural
projection at that height. Mr. Alvarez concurred, but it would be facing north
and east. Chairperson Campbell asked if they were having five shift
employees, what the total number of employees would be. Mr. Alvarez
deferred the question to the applicant.
1
Chairperson Campbell opened the public hearing and asked the applicant to
address the commission.
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 17, 1998
MR. RICK HOLDEN, Holden & Johnson Architects, stated that he was
present to answer any questions and clarify what he could. Regarding
the driveway and what exists today, there was still a drive-thru there
but nothing was being used. The asphalt paving extends to the existing
sidewalk and curb so there was a curb that runs across it but what used
to be a drive-thru still exists and the asphalt had never been removed
and the overhang was still there. That was proposed to be removed
with this submittal. The other question regarding five shift employees,
it was his understanding that it meant five employees per shift. The
people who would own and operate the restaurant were present. He
asked if there were any questions regarding the architecture or site plan.
Commissioner Jonathan asked if approval was granted tonight what kind of
construction time line they were looking at and if it would move forward in the
foreseeable future. He was asking because there was a Del Taco approved a
while back and he had yet to see it. Mr. Drell explained that it was because
Edison, the property owner, had some problems selling it to them.
.. Mr. Holden indicated that the property owner felt he could be up and
running by March. Basically they were trying to clean up the building,
take off the blue tile and put on a red the which would be more in
keeping with the area. Across the street there was a two-story building
with a florist and design shop that had the Spanish the and that kind of
a look. He felt this would soften up the corner a little as well as use
that area. There was some discussion about maybe trying to cut back
a little bit on parking to free up the corner a little more and put in some
more landscaping. One of the problems they had was that it was an
existing site and existing building and since it was developed the
ordinance had changed and when they have parking up against the
building it didn't leave much room to put in shade trees or other
structures. He said they were working with staff to perhaps put in
some compact car parking or cut some planters in where they could put
in some trees. Basically if they looked at the whole lot there weren't
very many trees in that whole center. He understood parking
requirements and parking ordinances, but just as a naive individual he
said it looks at if there is plenty of parking there that never gets used
and he felt it would be nicer to put in some more landscaping around
the building and around that corner, but he also understood for the
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 17, 1998
project to stand by itself it needs parking on its particular property.
That was what they provided.
Chairperson Campbell asked if Mr. Holden was talking about having trees
facing Highway 111 .
Mr. Holden said that right now they were proposing trees by the use of
tree wells. Unfortunately, it was an existing condition and when
Caltrans widens the street the edge of the parking would be just about
where the new curb lane would be so the only way they could get trees
and landscaping in was by cutting wells. They worked with a landscape
architect on desert type plantings and trees that were within the shade
ordinance and are fast growing and they felt they could probably do it
easier on Highway 1 1 1 where it orients east and faces Coco's. They
hadn't really shown it yet, but there were about six spaces on the west
side of the building and that was where staff had asked them to include
some shade so they would cut in some planter wells in there and work +
with compact parking or whatever was required to make it work.
.r
Commissioner Jonathan said that if he put in some shade structures perhaps
the city would waive some of the tree requirements.
Mr. Holden said that the problem with shade structures was that they
then had to meet the handicap requirements for vans and then all of a
sudden they had a shade structure taller than the building. From an
aesthetic point of view, that wouldn't work really well.
Commissioner Jonathan felt that if they had to come in with a modest parking
reduction in this particular area he would understand that. He agreed with the
applicant's conclusion about the usage of that lot. He didn't think parking had
ever been a problem.
Mr. Holden said that unfortunately they were asked to provide the
parking on the specific site because it is a specific site and not a part of
the whole center even though customers coming in would park
wherever.
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 17, 1998
Commissioner Finerty noted that in the restaurant's name there were 11
letters and the proposed color is red. She asked if Mr. Holden agreed with
that.
Mr. Holden asked for clarification.
Commissioner Finerty explained that in the staff report the sign was proposed
to be red individual reversed channel letters, halo lit, and asked if he agreed
with the color red.
Mr. Holden said they agreed with it basically because they were non-
illuminated red. They weren't a clear plexiglass face and didn't light up
at night. The light was a solid can and it was lit from behind so that it
formed a kind of a shadow pattern. It wasn't the typical light like the
one for Office Max red sign just behind it. Instead of only being a foot
high those letters would probably be three feet high and they light up
from the inside. He found that to be very non-offensive.
Commissioner Finerty asked what specific shade of red the letters would be:
carnival red or more of a muted red.
Mr. Holden said that was a good question because there was Bank of
America red, Chief Auto Parts red, and this was theoretically El Polio
Loco red, but it was red. He didn't know if he could tell the difference
between Bank of America red and El Polio Loco red. Usually the
applicant's say they can, but it was meant to be red.
Commissioner Finerty explained that her concern was that the letters were
proposed for three sides of the building and that seemed like a lot of red with
11 letters on three of the sides.
Mr. Holden said the letters were only 12 inches high. He pointed out
that Office Max was right behind it, Alcobar was right across the street,
and he felt these were very subtle letters in comparison to the ones
around it.
Chairperson Campbell said it wasn't going to be a neon sign.
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 17, 1998
i
rl
Mr. Holden said the letters themselves wouldn't light up so during the
day they would see an approximately 12-inch high red letter. At night
the light would shine from behind it and they would see some color
from the street lights, but it wouldn't light up red.
Mr. Alvarez compared this sign to the lettering used within Desert Crossing
with the backlighting against the wall outlining the letter. There wouldn't be
any illumination of the action face.
Chairperson Campbell noted that the El Polio Loco restaurant in Indio had a lot
of posters attached to the windows and she asked for confirmation that they
wouldn't have anything like that in Palm Desert. Mr. Alvarez said staff
wouldn't encourage it but they are allowed 20 square feet of temporary
window signage which is what the ordinance called for.
Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to speak in FAVOR or
OPPOSITION to this matter. There was no one and the public hearing was
closed. j
Commissioner Jonathan felt the proposal was an excellent use for that
particular location, said he really likes El Polio Loco and moved for approval.
Commissioner Beaty concurred and requested that at the next study session
they have El Polio Loco for dinner. He seconded the motion.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner Beaty,
approving the findings as presented by staff. Commissioner Finerty stated that
she has mixed emotions about this use. She realized that it meets the zoning
ordinance and is within code and setbacks, her concern was that Palm Desert,
especially Highway 1 1 1 doesn't become a fast food row. They have a number
already: Burger King, Carl's Jr., Kentucky Fried Chicken, SubKing, Arby's,
McDonald's, etc., and she was concerned about the trend and where they are
headed. She wondered if the other commissioners might agree to having a
study session to possibly limit the maximum number on major thoroughfares
or how many could be in the city or what their thoughts would be with regard
to the number of fast food restaurants in this one particular area. Chairperson
Campbell asked if she meant after this project was approved. Commissioner
Finerty said yes. Chairperson Campbell said she would be in favor of a study #
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 17, 1998
session. She questioned how much property was left or if anyone would bring
in anything else and asked what was missing. Mr. Drell commented that he
thought there was a good balance of Ruth's Chris and Quistot's and
Julienne's. First of all, he didn't believe that the police power in the zoning
allowed them to pick tenants. They couldn't choose between a Ruth's Chris
and a McDonald's. They were both food establishments that differentiate
between price and product but didn't think that was covered by the zoning
ordinance, but again, they were still seeing high, low and medium to meet all
the needs of all segments of our community. Chairperson Campbell said she
considered El Pollo Loco in the same category as Kentucky Fried Chicken and
she didn't consider that fast food like hamburgers. Mr. Drell said what they
could control were what things look like and how they are designed.
Restaurants don't always stay open forever and didn't believe it was within
their purview to pick the tenant that would go in there per the zoning.
Commissioner Jonathan said he understood Commissioner Finerty's concerns.
On the other hand these applications before them are market driven and the
applicant was moving forward because he is an investor and he expected the
market to demand the product he was offering. Given that, he asked where
else they would place fast food establishments in Palm Desert. Highway 1 1 1
was the logical place for these uses to exist. He didn't perceive a problem at
this point although he shared the concern. He didn't believe that we have a
problem on our hands. If there was a study session, he would attend it, but
he didn't feel they had a problem at this time. Commissioner Fernandez felt
that El Pollo Loco was needed and it was something different and there was
a diversity in the community so they needed to attract some of those
restaurants for the different tastes. He welcomed the restaurant and was in
favor. Chairperson Campbell concurred and called for the vote. Motion carried
5-0.
It was moved by Commissioner Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner Beaty,
adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 1904 approving CUP 98-17,
subject to conditions. Motion carried 5-0.
IX. MISCELLANEOUS
None.
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 17, 1998
X. COMMITTEE MEETING UPDATES
A. CIVIC CENTER STEERING COMMITTEE - (No meeting)
B. DESERT WILLOW COMMITTEE - (November 10, 1998)
Commissioner Finerty said the committee discussed the art and leisure
trail presentation and basically the consensus was that it be
educational, cultural and environmentally focused and there would be
a three-hour presentation scheduled December 8, 1998. Chairperson
Campbell asked if Commissioner Finerty would be able to attend that
meeting. Commissioner Finerty concurred.
C. PROJECT AREA 4 COMMITTEE - (November 16, 1998)
Commissioner Finerty said the committee was still discussing the walls
and it appeared that there might be a solution with the sound
attenuating wall to be built on public right-of-ways. The committee
approved that and now it would go to council and they would need to
decide their policy issue for the major arterials. An item that might be
coming before the Planning Commission would be the Montessori
School. Apparently they would like to sell it and the City was
interested in purchasing it and they would turn it over to Parks and
Recreation for a child care facility. She indicated the current facility at
Civic Center Park was bursting at the seams and there were several
children from the Palm Desert Country Club area that were attending
that child care. Right now the item was an informational one and they
were waiting for more details.
D. PALM DESERT/RANCHO MIRAGE MONTEREY AVENUE CORRIDOR
PLANNING WORK GROUP - (No meeting)
E. ZONING ORDINANCE REVIEW COMMITTEE - (November 10, 1998)
Chairperson Campbell noted that they discussed an amendment to the
adult entertainment ordinance. Staff recommended that the city
continue to provide a 500-foot separation between adult entertainment
businesses and residential areas, as well as churches. Also, they
discussed parking amendments, mini-warehouses and self storage
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NOVEMBER 17, 1998
projects. There was a development proposal for the 20-acre site west
of Washington on the north side of Country Club. That area was part
of the Freeway Commercial Overlay Zone and the north third of this site
would contain a mini-warehouse storage facility and they discussed
parking in the mini-storage facilities. Mini-storage uses didn't usually
require as many parking spaces as warehouses so they were not going
to change the ordinance, but they were going to consider a parking
adjustment for that particular development through a conditionai use
permit process when that comes before Planning Commission. At that
meeting Mr. Smith also suggested that a separate section could be
added to the ordinance that would be applicable to mini-storage
facilities. The consensus of the committee was to concur with the staff
recommendation.
XI. COMMENTS
1 . Commissioner Jonathan noted that there was a rumor circulating that
�. Sears was coming into the mall and asked if there was any truth to
that. Mr. Drell agreed that was the rumor. Commissioner Jonathan felt
that would be disastrous for the city and asked if there was any way at
this point to assert any influence or control over the tenants that would
be going in there. Mr. Drell said no and explained that hypothetically if
Sears was a tenant, the reason why it was hypothetically important that
Sears be in the mall was that there was another large department store
out there and that large department store would only come and locate
in another mall if it has at least one other major with it. If there was
another major out there that was willing to link up with one and start
another mall that would be more damaging to this mall if another one
developed somewhere else. To preempt another mall from being
developed, they couldn't have a major floating out there. Commissioner
Jonathan said it was hard to imagine that it would cause more problems
than having a Sears. He didn't necessarily want to debate it. Their
concern when the mall people came before them was some of the
present problems and if those would be improved or made worse by the
expansion. In his opinion, and he said he could be wrong, but he felt
that Sears would make the situation worse. He remembered asking the
applicant about the tenant mix and who they were looking to bring in
and what impact that would have on the problems they discussed. He
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NOVEMBER 17, 1998
a
specifically asked the applicant if they would be more likely to bring in
a Nordstrom or Montgomery Ward's. The applicant's answer was that
it definitely wouldn't be Nordstrom's because they weren't interested
in coming here and it definitely wouldn't be Montgomery Wards. He
took that to mean they would end up with something in between and
he felt they could live with that. He stated that there was nothing
wrong with Sears and has shopped there, but for the mall and for the
retail image that he thought Palm Desert was trying to create and
maintain with the kind of tourist shoppers they were trying to bring into
the city, he didn't think Sears was consistent. The merchandise,
presentation, and price level they were talking about. He could be
wrong but in terms of the retail mix, he asked who the remaining
tenants would be in the other 134 spaces because the majors tend to
drive that market. Commissioner Beaty felt that some J.C. Penney's
were the best but this one has presented itself well and thought it was
comparable. Mr. Drell thought that Penney's was in the same category
as Sears they will have a vacancy and there weren't many department
stores left to fill that vacancy except Nordstrom's and Nordstrom's
wasn't prepared to come here. For other communities that have spent
money to get Nordstrom's it has turned out not to be a great
investment, but great for the shoppers. Mr. Drell said that was the
rumor but the motivation was to preempt another regional mall from
ever being built. Chairperson Campbell stated that she was in favor of
that. They didn't want to go over 1-10 with another mall.
2. Commissioner Beaty noted that staff was going to check into the Realty
Executive sign. Mr. Drell said it was an illegal sign and they were out
of business. They were moving to get it abated and asked if it was still
on because he thought Mr. Smith was going to give Mike Homme a call,
who owns the building. The first thing they wanted to do was turn it
off because the business was closed. Staff couldn't locate any permits
for it and found it had an inactive business license and the place was
shut.
3. Chairperson Campbell said that on Alessandro there used to be a taxi
service/building and in the building itself they have built out to the
sidewalk with boards. Mr. Drell said they have always had a little patio.
Chairperson Campbell indicated they enclosed that patio with boards
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NOVEMBER 17, 1998
tow
that now come all the way out to the sidewalk. Mr. Drell said that staff
would check into it.
4. Commissioner Finerty noted that the clothing rack was still out as
recently as today in the Lucky shopping center on Washington. Mr.
Drell said that he would give the message to Mr. Ponder.
5. Commissioner Finerty asked if on Cook Street from Merle north if that
group ever had any landscaping requirements because basically all they
have is dirt out in their planters and some of their letters were falling off
their signage. She felt it looked really tacky. Mr. Greenwood said there
is a project in the works that Public Works was involved with to rebuild
the wall, which is structurally damaged, but it was currently not
designed to retain earth on either side and it was retaining the parking
lot on the high side and to also incorporate some landscaping and
decorative or artistic features on the wall. He thought Eric Johnson
was in charge of that project and he could have him contact
Commissioner Finerty or she could contact Eric. Commissioner Finerty
�• said she felt that something needed to be done with it because it has
been like that for years. Mr. Greenwood noted that there was also
another project in that area to install a traffic signal at 42nd and Cook,
remove the stop sign at Velie, median work, a lot of reconfiguring of
streets in that area and he thought this landscaping in the wall area on
the west side was to precede this other project or possibly be
incorporated. There would be quite a bit of work in that area in the
future. Commissioner Jonathan asked for clarification that there would
be a signal at 42nd. Mr. Greenwood concurred. Mr. Drell said that
they were going to take Green Way and redirect it to align with 42nd.
Commissioner Jonathan asked if they would ever put a light at Sheryl
and Cook. He said there was about an accident a week there. Mr. Drell
said that right now they probably have a worse situation with the stop
signs because there was a continuous flow of traffic. Mr. Greenwood
said that a stop sign and signal are competing in the way they distribute
traffic. A stop sign strings them out and a signal groups them up.
Commissioner Jonathan said that people try to make a left out of where
Harv's is and there was an accident a week. Mr. Greenwood said that
Sheryl has never come up. They maintain a continuing high accident
location list and Sheryl has never come up in the top 50 that he knew
of. Commissioner Jonathan felt that was amazing. He has an office
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 17, 1998
there. Commissioner Finerty concurred that you couldn't turn left there.
You would have to go around to Merle and come out at the signal. Mr.
Greenwood said they couldn't signalize every intersection or traffic
would never get anywhere. He thought there was a site distance with
Sheryl that perhaps they could work on to make it a little easier.
Chairperson Campbell noted that there were finally trees at the driving
range after many years.
6. Commissioner Beaty noted that there was a person selling newspapers
in the Lucky center and asked what would happen if they couldn't even
have coke machines. He had developed a neat little stand. The vendor
was selling different kinds of newspapers and he had a pretty good
looking rack. Mr. Drell thought he was probably a squatter and was
sure he didn't have permission to sell there. Mr. Hargreaves thought
that the city could control that kind of activity. Commissioner Beaty
said he wasn't complaining and coke machines never bothered him. Mr.
Drell said that the guy who had the clothes rack asked about all these
other uses. The city has the ability to say the other things are fine.
Under the current ordinance, technically any outdoor sales require a
permit so that was what they were looking at. Whether they were
going to identify certain outdoor sales, which require only a site plan to
determine they are not blocking pedestrian traffic flow. Chairperson
Campbell said that Ralph's at Cook and Country Club now had plants
outside. Commissioner Finerty said she also saw it. Mr. Drell said that
they have always considered nurseries to be appropriate. Commissioner
Finerty questioned the use at a grocery store. Mr. Drell said that places
seasonally sell at other stores like Home Depot, Home Base and
hardware stores. It was also noted that Christmas trees were sold
outside.
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NOVEMBER 17, 1998
XII. ADJOURNMENT
It was moved by Commissioner Beaty, seconded by Chairperson Campbell,
adjourning the meeting by minute motion. Motion carried 5-0. The meeting
was adjourned at 8:27 p.m.
0
PHILIP DRELL, 31
cretary
ATTEST:
-SONIA M. CAMPBELL, Chairperson
Palm Desert Planning Commission
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