HomeMy WebLinkAbout0119 MINUTES
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING
TUESDAY - JANUARY 19, 1999
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7:00 P.M. - CIVIC CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBER
73-510 FRED WARING DRIVE
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I. CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Campbell called the meeting to order at 7:02 p.m.
II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Commissioner Lopez led in the pledge of allegiance.
111. ROLL CALL
Members Present: Sonia Campbell, Chairperson
Paul Beaty
Cindy Finerty
Sabby Jonathan
Jim Lopez
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Members Absent: None
Staff Present: Phil Drell, Director of Community Development
Bob Hargreaves, City Attorney
Phil Joy, Associate Planner
Mark Greenwood, Transportation Engineer
Tonya Monroe, Administrative Secretary
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Consideration of the January 5, 1999 meeting minutes.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Finerty, seconded by Commissioner Beaty,
approving the January 5, 1999 minutes as submitted. Motion carried 5-0.
V. SUMMARY OF COUNCIL ACTION
Mr. Drell summarized pertinent January 14, 1999 actions.
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VI. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
None.
VII. CONSENT CALENDAR
None.
VIII. PUBLIC HEARINGS
Anyone who challenges any hearing matter in court may be limited to raising
only those issues he/she or someone else raised at the public hearing described
herein, or in written correspondence delivered to the Planning Commission at,
or prior to, the public hearing.
A. Case Nos. GPA 98-6, C/Z 98-7, PP/CUP 98-21 - ROYCE
INTERNATIONAL INVESTMENTS CO., Applicant
(Continued from January 5, 1999)
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Request for approval of a general plan amendment from low
density residential to senior overlay, zone change from planned
residential five dwelling units per acre to senior overlay, a precise
plan and conditional use permit for a health and wellness resort
for seniors consisting of a 161 bed skilled nursing facility, 150
bed assisted living facility, 288 apartment units and 182 casita
units, with a development agreement on 75 acres southwest of
Country Club Drive and Portola Avenue.
Mr. Joy noted that the applicant submitted plans for a health and wellness
resort. He said it appeared to be a first class resort for senior citizens ages
62 and up. What it made it first class to him was the amount of security and
the blending of the architecture in the project. The other unique aspect of the
project was the amount of health care facilities within the complex and
assistance that seniors would receive. The different types of housing would
provide a transition in living so that as seniors progress it would not
necessitate a move as they grow older. They could stay within the 75-acre
complex. The first type of housing would be the most independent living
aspect of the project, the casita units, which ranged up to 1 ,800 square feet
and they would be located in the southern part of the project adjacent to the
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Casablanca and Sonata projects. They would be single story structures
scattered in clusters. The higher density portion of the project would be
located along the northern part of the project along Country Club Drive. Those
would be scattered two story villas also in clusters with the same blending in
architecture. The units would have 24 hour security and 24 hour emergency
calling service directly related to the medical facilities. In between the casitas
and villas would be a clubhouse and fitness center which further added to the
uniqueness of the project. It would provide everything anyone would need so
they would never have to leave the premises. Further along Portola Avenue
would be the assisted living facility along the southern part of Portola and that
would be for seniors needing a little more assistance as part of their daily
functions. Further north along Portola would be the skilled nursing facility
directly behind the fire station which would have extensive medical facilities
and more trained staff for people needing more medical care. For the skilled
nursing facility and assisted living facility, a height exception was being
requested for an architectural projection in the lobby area. The city's
architectural committee approved it and he felt it really added a statement to
the overall project. All along the street frontages of the project, Portola and
'� Country Club Drive, would be a generous 32 foot landscaped area for the
eight-foot meandering sidewalk which helped it blend in. Staff felt the impacts
of a project like this would be minimum and certainly less than the existing
approved project. He pointed out that the existing approval included 241
single family houses and 162 apartments with no age restrictions. The
applicants provided a traffic study and city staff reviewed the studies and
found that there would be up to 50% less traffic generated by the proposed
project than the existing approved project. Included with the project would be
a much needed bus stop at the project entrance across the street from Palm
Desert Greens. An issue that the existing approved project didn't address
were the oleanders behind Casablanca. None of the previous project approvals
mentioned the oleanders and what would be done with them. He found out
that the oleanders were planted and maintained by Casablanca but actually sat
on this piece of property. The existing project with a normal single family tract
would probably necessitate the removal of the oleanders. Single family houses
only required a 20-foot setback and the oleanders were probably 20 feet wide
by themselves so no one would want their whole backyards to be oleanders
so they would be removed and the oleanders would have to be moved onto
Casablanca property or they would lose that buffer. It was conditioned that
the oleanders would have to remain, at least during grading to help mitigate
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any kind of dust impact from the wind that might occur, but also to provide
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a buffer for the project itself. The applicants indicated that they reached
agreement with Casablanca as far as retaining the oleanders, but he was
informed right before the meeting by the President of Casablanca that there
might be some mis-communication in this regard and what kind of agreement
had been worked out and the President would be add�essing the commission
himself. The other thing staff required on the project with respect to grading
along the whole southern boundary was to make sure it would conform and
found a discrepancy behind the Sonata project and in those instances pads
were lowered as much as five feet to make them more compatible with
existing pad heights in Sonata. Staff received a letter of approval from a
Sonata resident supporting the project. Other letters of support were received
from the Joslyn Cove Senior Citizens Complex and a letter from the
Casablanca Homeowners Association from their property management
company and he was informed by the Association President that he did not
know of that letter going out. The President could address that later. The
project was continued previously because the property owner list supplied to
staff only included half of Casablanca and that was corrected and notices were
sent to the names/owners that were on the latest equalized rolls for the
balance of Casablanca that had not been notified. He said it was possible that �
some of the rolls might be old also, but at this point in time he believed the
project was no secret to anyone within the Casablanca project. The applicant
met with representatives from Casablanca. Staff insisted that the applicant
meet with all the adjacent homeowner associations in the area. As required
by law, residents must be notified either by newspaper, property posting or
mailing to adjacent property owners. Palm Desert notifies in the newspaper
and also mailing, more than satisfying state requirements. With that, Mr. Joy
asked for any questions and indicated that staff felt this would be a
worthwhile project for the city and recommended approval.
Commissioner Lopez announced that he would be abstaining due to a conflict
of interest.
Commissioner Jonathan asked if there was a rendering of the main entryway
on Country Club Drive. Mr. Joy noted there was a booklet of renderings.
Commissioner Jonathan said he reviewed the renderings but didn't see one for
the main entryway and indicated he would direct his question to the applicant.
Chairperson Campbell asked if staff felt comfortable with the traffic study that
was done. Mr. Greenwood stated that he hadn't had the opportunity to
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review either of the traffic studies that were submitted and had only taken a
cursory review, He concurred that this project would probably result in less
traffic than the previously approved project.
Chairperson Campbell noted that the public hearing was still open from
January 5, 1999 and asked the applicant to address the commission.
MR. ROBERT BIGLER, President of Bigler Corporation in Scottsdale. Mr.
Bigler informed commission that also attending the meeting were Wilson
Jones of Jones & Mah Architects in Scottsdale, Mike Smith of Warner
Engineering, and Michael LaMelza of Royce International, their client.
He stated that the first drawing in the booklet was of the site plan.
Their major entrance was off Country Club at the existing signalization
going into Palm Desert Greens. They didn't have a rendering of the
guard house at the entry. The second drawing was of the recreation
building, which was the first building which would be seen after
entering. That was a 30,000 square foot building: 25,000 on one level
and 5,000 on the other. It had just about anything anyone would want
�""' from a general store to shops and a restaurant and snack stands. For
the pool area there they were discussing the possibility of having half
of it indoors and half outdoors. He felt this project was unique and to
their knowledge there was nothing like this in the country. What they
had found in studies was that with seniors one of the traumatic things
seniors would have to do was move when they are 75 or 80 years old
from one facility to another and losing the friends they have made and
moving across town to become familiar with another new environment.
They set this up with the idea that someone could move in at 62 or 65
and be able to stay there the rest of their days in a very nice resort
environment. The first entry level was to the south with just one story.
They wanted to more closely correspondence with the residential areas
to the south and there were 182 casitas there. The casitas range from
1 ,400 to 1 ,800 square feet. They were trying to make them as
residential as possible with clusters of 10-12 units in each cluster. The
parking was not inside the cluster, but outside it. They wanted to
create a pedestrian atmosphere around those units. They designed the
units themselves to have front porches and back porches for places for
people to congregate. They wanted a sense of community and a place
for people to talk to their neighbors. They wanted to cluster the units
,� around a central courtyard so that people could get to know their
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neighbors. The Fire Department was concerned about how they would
get the emergency vehicles in and they worked that out. There was a
drive to take them back in there. They weren't saying there wouldn't
be cars going back in those clusters, but that wasn't where the parking
would be. If someone had to drop off groceries, or whatever, they
could do that in the cluster and then move the car out to covered
parking. The next level up if someone didn't want to have 1 ,400-1 ,800
square feet, they could go into the villas. The villas would be two
stories and there would be elevators in every one of the clusters to take
people to the upper level. Now they were getting into a smaller unit,
900 to 1 ,200 square feet. They were using a very Mediterranean style
of architecture. He mentioned that they were particularly concerned
about what the impact those units would have because they were two
stories against Country Club and what would happen to the people on
the other side of the street looking across. He stated that every one of
those clusters was sunk down three to five feet below the curb of
Country Club so they mitigated their height from anyone passing by and
also mitigated any obstruction to the view lines that the people on the '
north side of Country Club would have. That was very well received „�
when they met with Palm Desert Greens and there were about 300
people at a meeting there a couple of weeks ago and they were very
impressed that they would be doing that for them. The third level of
the project was the 150 patient room assisted living complex in the
lower right-hand corner of the site plan. That would be a two-story
building, but what happened was that because of the terrain there the
first level was ground level, the second level was actually underneath
proceeding down the hill. If they were to enter from Portola they would
come in at grade, but the second floor was actually underneath them as
they went down the hill. The finished floor was about the same as the
Portola entrance. As they got farther down the hill, they were actually
down below the curb height of Portola. The fourth level of the project
was the skilled nursing center. That had 161 patient �ooms. lt would
be a two-story building but they sank it down below the street. They
were actually seven to eight feet lower than Portola (someone spoke
from the audience and told him it was ten feet). He said what was
significant about that was that the second floor of that building was
actually four feet lower than the finished floor of the fire station. Not
the first floor, but the second floor. He said they tried very hard to �
mitigate any kind of problem they would have from the adjacent
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neighbors. As Phil Joy pointed out, the area down to the south, they
were lowering the grade down there sometimes six to eight feet to bring
the grade of that right down to the level of the neighbors next door so
that ihey didn't have a situation of looking over into their backyards.
Across Country Club they did the same thing and lowered the buildings
down. What they were particularly concerned about, and they were
trying to nestle this down into the site, was what the big buildings
looked like (the skilled nursing center and assisted living) from the
street. He said that with the skilled nursing center the operative word
was nursing. He didn't want the commission to confuse this with a
hospital because it wasn't. Hospitals have surgery, x-rays, diagnostic
laboratories and a lot of things these buildings wouldn't have. They
didn't even have a full time doctor. It was nursing and was a
convalescent center. People would go to Eisenhower and would come
back to this facility to convalesce on their way back to their casitas if
that was the case or stay in there permanently if they were in the later
stages of their life. They have run into this before when people see
skilled nursing center and think hospital. He said that wasn't the case
� here. Mr. Bigler demonstrated on their renderings the buildings that
would be seen from Portola if they could be seen. He had an overlay
that showed what would happen when they looked at the buildings
from the curb. He said they were doing some berming along Portola,
but the whole idea was to make these buildings nestle down into the
site. He showed the view from Country Club and said that it impressed
Palm Desert Greens. He felt that with the street scape the view of the
buildings went away. He indicated the project would have security all
the way around it and they were anticipating putting in the berms and
then gently weaving a wrought iron fence through the berms and
through the landscaping. One of the things that impressed on him
coming into Palm Desert fihe first time was coming down Country Club
and looking at all the walls lining the roads. He didn't want to do that.
He wanted to make this as quiet as possible and make it interesting to
people passing by. Further to the west, the project opened up and they
would leave the berms out at that spot so that people could look into
the green areas of the site. He also showed the renderings to the
audience, pointing out the difference of the view befo�e and after the
berming. He said their idea was to make it so that about all that could
be seen were the roofs. He told commission that they have t�ied very
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hard. They liked the site with the views off of it and they tried to be as
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sensitive as they could to their neighbors. As Mr. Joy noted, they have
met with the neighboring associations, with the Joslyn Center, with
Palm Desert Greens across the road and have every reason to believe
they have gotten a good response from them. They tried very hard to
make this one of the finest projects of its kind anywhere. Some of the
things they have done in terms of open space, under Palm Desert's
ordinance they were required to provide 40% which would be 30 acres,
and they have 67% open space. The buildings themselves were only
occupying 19% of the site trying to retain the site in viable form. They
have retention areas, engineering problems that have to be faced, and
on the site plan they used those areas for lakes and water features
throughout the site. One of the fire department requirements was
access to all sides of the buildings. When it came to the assisted living
and skilled nursing center that got more difficult because of the size of
the buildings and they didn't want to have asphalt going all the way
around so they worked out with them the idea of using a grass creek-
hard surface lawn that goes around the buildings so that they could in
an eme�gency drive their trucks in there and drive on something that
was stable but not a sea of asphalt. He said they did a traffic study and �
Kimley-Horne was one of the best traffic engineers in the country. They
have about 25 offices all across the country. Their analysis on this site
came up with 56% less traffic than what would otherwise be generated
by the existing zoning on the property. He asked for any questions.
Commissioner Finerty asked Mr. Bigler if this would be a Medical certified
facility.
Mr. Bigler said that was a legal part he wasn't too sure of. The skilled
nursing center would have to be certified by the state. He wasn't
familiar with the California laws to tell them exactly what that
certification was. That was the only part of the project that would be
required to have certification.
Commissioner Finerty clarified that by Medical certified what she was looking
at was a financial impact--that the project would be certified to take in people
who pay a portion of the daily rate and that would be supplemented by money
from Medicaf.
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He said he didn't know the answer to that and referred the question to
the project's administrative consultant.
MS. BIJAYA SRINIVASA stated that she was from New Jersey and
explained that normally in a skilled facility people would come in with
a portion of the funding and Medical would be used for a portion of the
funding. Other places used Medicare.
Commissioner Finerty clarified that for the skilled nursing they would be
applying for Medical.
Ms. Srinivasa concurred and said in some cases Medicare.
Commissioner Finerty noted that Mr. Bigler mentioned that there would be 161
patient rooms with regard to the skilled nursing and asked for clarification that
they would have 161 rooms or 161 beds.
Mr. Bigler said that they really didn't know what would come about.
� The casistas were two bedrooms, sometimes three bedrooms or two
bedrooms and a den. That could be a husband and wife, a widow or
widower and they weren't really sure how many people would be there.
The same thing happened with the villas. When they go on to the
assisted living, the assisted living units were essentially suites and there
were 151 suites that were like apartments without kitchens. Again,
they might have a situation where there are a husband and wife living
there together. When they get to the skilled nursing facility, it was
anticipated that there would be 161 beds.
Commissioner Finerty asked for clarification that it would be one bed per room
and Medical would supplement this with just one bed in each room.
Ms. Srinivasa explained that normally the single bedroom was a luxury
that they wanted people to have. Medical would pay for the bed, not
for the room. Whether there were two beds per room or one bed per
room that was up to them if they provide it.
Commissioner Finerty stated that right now Medical pays S91 .64 per day.
She asked what kind of rate they were considering charging for the skilled
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nursing facility.
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Ms. Srinivasa said they were reviewing their rates right now to come up
with an adequate rate. Skilled nursing facilities in this area charged
anywhere from 5200 to 5265 per day on their skilled care units. The
non-skilled were any where from S90 to 5180. That was the range she
had seen and they had done a vast study through the whole Riverside
County and that was the average from the report and they would be
reviewing those figures to determine a comparable rate.
Commissioner Finerty questioned that if they have done a vast study if they
were aware that the three hospitals that service this area currently did not fill
all the skilled nursing beds in this area.
Ms. Srinivasa indicated that Monterey Palms was almost 98% filled up
right now.
Commissioner Finerty noted that Monterey Palms has never been filled to
capacity.
Ms. Srinivasa said that maybe not to 100%, but when they were there
she was personally told that they had only four beds empty at the time. �
Commissioner Finerty explained that she spoke to a woman who has worked
there for five years and during her employment there she said it was never full.
Ms. Srinivasa indicated that normally skilled nursing facilities were 90%
to 92% average occupancy and that was doable. Also, the Carlotta
was completely filled up.
Commissioner Finerty noted that the Carlotta had vacancies.
Ms. Srinivasa said when she went to the facility there were no
vacancies.
Commissioner Finerty stated that she spoke to a woman there just yesterday
and there were vacancies at Manor Care, The Carlotta and Hacienda de
Monterey-Monterey Palms and she had been told and was curious about Ms.
S�inivasa's study because she was told that the bedding for skifled nursing and
assisted living was based on the population and right now the number of beds
was considered appropriate. What concerned her about this project was
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coming in with over 700 units, not to mention what the neighboring city
Rancho Mirage had going on. They have the Wellington underway which
would have 120 beds, the Marriott 142, Mirage Inn another 145 and
Eisenhower Village 172. All of these new projects were significantly smaller
than what this project was being proposed at with 771 total, but her main
concern was how, with all these new facilities coming into the valley, and
right now with three hospitals that couldn't fill all of the beds, how they were
going to see this be a successful project.
Ms. Srinivasa said she couldn't answer all the exact details, but overall
from the study they received it showed that with the population from
the surrounding area there was enough and the population grows
consistently and she had a chart that she said she would be happy to
share with the commission but overall they were still in the process of
getting more information and when they have it they could give
commission a better picture on it.
Commissioner Finerty noted that it seemed if right now with the number of
`` beds they have that were not all full and with another roughly 600 going into
Rancho Mirage and in addition to the proposed project, the population would
have to grow pretty significantly to fill these beds for all these projects to
succeed.
Ms. Srinivasa said she understood that and explained that their project
alone would have, with the casitas and villas, close to 300+ people in
the vicinity so that as the people age, at least 10% of them would be
coming in and hoped as the population grows in the Palm Desert area
people would move in. The report showed a projection of at least a 5%
increase in population.
Commissioner Finerty said she would like to see a copy of the report Ms.
Srinivasa was basing that on because she has talked to marketing directors
from three of the facilities in Palm Desert and that wasn't what they were
telling her.
Ms. Srinivasa said she would be happy to share that with her.
Commissioner Finerty noted that she recently had to place her father-in-law
,.�, and grandmother in one of these homes and had never found any difficulty in
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getting them into skilled nursing and indicated it was one of the toughest
decisions that a family had to make and they usually didn't want to locate in
them willingly. It was usually a struggle to get them there. She was
concerned about the phasing of the project and how long it would take to
complete it.
Mr. Bigler said it was their intent to move as quickly as possible with
the assisted living, casitas and villas. The skilled nursing center
because it requires state approval would take a little bit longer, but it
was the intent to build the assisted living immediately and starting the
villas and casitas. As Ms. Srinivasa said, that was one of the side
benefits to having the four phases of the project because the assisted
living and skilled nursing facilities would be fed by the residents on the
site so that there was a progression that would take place across the
site.
Commissioner Finerty asked how many years he was talking about.
Mr. Bigler said they were looking to have the whole project to be built .rr
out within a maximum of five years, but the skilled nursing center and
assisted living would be built as quickly as they could be. The villas and
casitas would depend on market conditions how fast they would be
filled up.
Commissioner Finerty asked for clarification that Mr. Bigler said they would
build the assisted living, casitas, villas and then skilled nursing. Secondly, she
thought he said they would have assisted living and skilled nursing first and
asked which was correct.
Mr. Bigler clarified that the assisted living, the villas and the casitas
would be built as quickly as they could be. The skilled nursing because
it requires state approval would take longer. Finishing out all of the
villas and all of the casitas would take a period of time because they
would be built as the market demands. The two big buildings, the
assisted living and skilled nursing, would be built in their entirety up
front.
Commissioner Finerty noted that another concern was Mr. Bigler's own
statement that he has never done a project like this before.
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Mr. Bigler said it wasn't that he hasn't done it, but that this kind of
project has not been built where they have a project with four phases.
Commissioner Finerty stated that this type of project is quite common and it's
called a tier level where they provide residential, assisted living and skilled
nursing. In doing some other research, she discovered there are many facilities
across the country, but none that she had been able to find had this many
units. Generally they were kept at around 100 units which would be
consistent with the Wellington, Marriott, Mirage and Eisenhower Village. She
knew from this area that many of these facilities have a real employment
problem. They could look in the Desert Sun newspaper almost any day and
there were ads all the time because it wasn't a very pleasant job and since
they have had to put their loved ones there, and she really admired the people
that do this kind of work, nevertheless it was very difficult to keep the
positions filled even at the smaller capacities and they were now coming in
with 771 units. That was another concern.
Mr. Bigler said they wouldn't be doing this project if they didn't think it
'" would be successful. A great deal of money has been spent to get it to
this far and a great deal of money was spent on the dirt. A great deal
of money would be spent getting this project built. They would not be
doing that if they thought the project was not going to be successful.
He said yes, there were a number of projects across the country that do
multi levels but never on this kind of scale and never with this kind of
living environment. Mostly what they have seen across the country,
and they have them in Phoenix, here, and all over the country, high rise
buildings stacking people up, and they were not in a resort type
development. When he said this hadn't been done, they haven't been
done on this kind of a scale, this kind of a site, developing something
that has a residential scale rather than a clinical one. Mr. Bigler said
that Commissioner Finerty put her family into a rest home and he
himself watched both of his parents die in facilities that smelled and
were terrible facilities. That was what they didn't want here. They
wanted something where people could spend out the rest of their lives
in dignity.
Commissioner Finerty recognized that there were certain problems associated
with running these facilities and she was very aware of that. She asked his
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thoughts on how he proposed to fill all of these beds. Mr. Bigler said he was
the architect, not the owner.
Commissioner Jonathan asked if McBail currently owned the property.
Mr. Bigler said that was his understanding.
Commissioner Jonathan asked if there was a representative of the applicant
present that could answer those types of questions or if he should direct the
questions to Mr. Bigler.
Mr. Bigler asked what he wanted to know.
Commissioner Jonathan wanted to know if McBail owned the property, what
Mr. Bigler's expectations were. He noted that the City has approved four
projects and wanted to gain some insight as to how realistic an expectation
the City might have that this would go through if approval was granted.
Mr. Bigler deferred the question to Mr. LaMelza. .r
MR. MICHAEL LAMELZA said that for the last subdivision that was
approved apparently the numbers just didn't work. Looking at it as a
developer and looking at the cost of developing the land, the power
lines would cost S1 million to put in the ground. When the developer
or builder puts in all of those costs including the cost of the land, it
made it difficult to make the numbers work. With this concept because
it was designed for a long term and they were able to absorb some of
those costs and also work something out with the city. Instead of
putting those lines into the ground immediately, they could be phased
in according to the job. He felt that Mr. Bigler brought up something
important and that was that they were going to start the villas and
casitas on a sample and they would be building custom while they were
marketing and working with the assisted living. He knew there were a
lot of jobs that have been approved in the community but they felt they
have something that was all encompassing, a resort. Most places didn't
have that and there were larger ones and he could furnish the
commission with information of projects any where from 100 to 500
dwelling units including the assisted living and the skilled care. They
felt this was a long term type of investment rather than short term. The
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builder comes in and in essence he is looking for the short term turnover
to make his money and move on and it was difficult to absorb all of the
costs. They looked at it as a very long term--a 20, 30 or 40-year term.
Commissioner Jonathan noted there were four projects previously approved
for this site and asked how likely it was that if approved this project would
actually move forward.
Mr. LaMelza said that based upon what they designed, if the
commission approved it they would move along as aggressively as they
could. Again, he was very candid with the city when he said he saw
this as a five-year project and he saw certain components happening
first. Assisted living would happen first, including marketing of the
villas and casitas and the clubhouse because that amenity was needed.
With that happening, it would depend upon the market conditions of the
community, the marketplace as far as economy, and things of that
nature over which they had no control. What happened to their
predecessors was exactly what he said. The predecessors put the
"'� numbers together and they didn't work and they were looking at a short
term turnover to make the numbers work. They didn't look at it that
way. They were looking at it long term. The project would happen.
They were paying cash for the land so they wouldn't have the debt.
They would probably also pay 50% cash for the improvements so they
wouldn't have any debt service for the improvements.
Commissioner Jonathan said that he was hearing that it was Mr. LaMelza's
expectation that the project would move forward if approved.
Mr. LaMelza concurred.
Commissioner Jonathan asked if their investors expected to make a profit from
this project over whatever time horizon.
Mr. LaMelza said he assumed so.
Commissioner Jonathan asked if in that regard Mr. LaMelza had conducted a
financial feasibility analysis to determine if in fact there is a demand for the
product.
...
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..�
Mr. LaMelza stated that there is a definite demand for senior housing.
The housing would happen in certain parts of the country. What was
happening, and he had seen this in California and he lived in California,
a lot of people were moving out of California and going to other areas
like Arizona, Las Vegas and Nevada because of the tax situation. They
thought they had a great product here and they were in a good city
where the taxes are reasonable and they could control their costs. They
could keep the people here that want to stay in California. He was
talking about attracting people not only in a 10 or 20-mile radius but a
100-mile radius of Palm Desert. He lives in Santa Barbara and people
from Santa Barbara come here to play golf and whatever. There was
no reason why they wouldn't consider this as a retirement place
especially when they reach 70-80 years of age. They would also
provide amenities outside that would include an 18-hole putting golf
course, croquette, tennis, an indoor-outdoor swimming pool, a fitness
club, indoor padded track, etc., and if there was something else that
seniors needed they would take a look at adding it.
Commissioner Jonathan asked if they were looking at a potential five-year .rl
build out, and he assumed they weren't going into this project to create a
vacant, empty project and asked if it was fair to say that their expectations
based on the financial feasibility analysis that was conducted, that it is their
expectation that there is a demand for the project and that there will be
reasonable occupancy.
Mr. LaMelza said absolutely. Looking at the architecture they are
designing, how many units they are designing, they were designing
something where people would just be changing from a 4,000 square
foot house to an 1 ,800 square foot house with all the other amenities
and he thought it wouldn't be a step down, but a step that would
ensure their future and health.
Chairperson Campbell noted that Mr. Bigler said they met with Palm Desert
Greens residents.
Mr. Bigler concurred.
Chairperson Campbell asked if they met with Silver Sands.
�
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Mr. Bigler said yes. They met with the Board of Directors for Silver
Sands, Casablanca, numerous individuals from Sonata and anyone else
that wanted to talk with them. They gave a presentation to the Joslyn
Center and they were enthusiastic abaut the project and sent a letter.
Chairperson Campbell asked for confirmation that they met only with the
Board of Directors of Casablanca but not the residents.
Mr. Bigler said they didn't meet with the residents as a whole. They did
with Palm Desert Greens and probably had 250 people in that
presentation.
Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to address the commission in
FAVOR of the project. There was no one. Chairperson Campbell asked if
anyone wished to speak in OPPOSITION.
MRS. VIVIAN SLOR, 41591 Colada Court in Casablanca, stated that
they came to the last meeting. They were not notified as Mr. Joy said
"' because they were in the half that were evidently overlooked. She said
they live in a PUD, planned urban development, which meant they
owned the land right under their home. They were told then that there
would only be a two-week change and then everyone would be notified.
She said they are absentee owners and come down here to enjoy the
winter and then go to their other homes. Mr. Joy tried to call her twice
and she would agree to that but they were never notified even in the
second phase of this that there was going to be this meeting. She said
it seemed he based, and he was very cooperative, he based his records
on something that was provided to him from the tax agency and asked
if that was correct.
Mr. Joy said it was from ihe Riverside County Assessor Rolls.
Ms. Slo� stated that her address was listed in the name of owners who
owned the place ten years ago. They have been paying their taxes with
their own name and they certainly knew where they were located
because they have gotten their bills for the past eight and a half to nine
years. There were many new owners in their area and she felt this
oversight with an outdated roll meant a lot of people were not notified
�, in their area and since there were many absentee people who live other
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.■r
places than Palm Desert, the Palm Desert Sun was not available to them
in the other places they live. The notices were not given and the third
way of notification was posting the property. Since at least a third of
the owners at Casablanca were absentee she thought that many people
present had been notified by word of mouth but had not been notified.
She felt this was very unfair. They bought their probably based on and
trusting in the zoning boards zoning. She thought very few of them
would have purchased if they knew that down the line they would
change the zoning to this high density use that they were worried and
concerned about, particularly since their fences join not only the casitas
with the high density, but also right in the corner there would be
parking and a maintenance yard. She was an old social worker who
worked with geriatrics and questioned the sense of putting a skilled
nursing facility next to a fire station that is always going off and ringing.
She said it might hasten some of their patients along the way.
Considering also that she is in that age bracket, she would not call this
a resort. She thanked the commission for their consideration.
MR. ALFRED SLOR complimented Commissioner Finerty for bringing up ..�
points that were very poignant. It appeared to him as if the developers
had not properly studied this project to find out what their own financial
impact would be because many of the questions they could not answer.
For the amount of money that something like this would cost, even the
preparation costs, he thought the developers would have done their
studies and been able to answer the questions definitively and had
counters to the issues brought up. The number of facilities such as this
who were not filled in the area was a question they were wondering
about and he thanked Commissioner Finerty for bringing that up
because this would introduce another facility which would also not be
filled and would impact all the others. He noted that Mark Greenwood
said that he hadn't studied the traffic studies. He had just gotten them,
there were two of them, and he didn't have a chance to look at them.
Yet about two minutes into this discussion he said that he would
approve the thing which he felt was strange because without having
looked at them, he asked how Mr. Greenwood could approve of them.
Mr. Greenwood clarified that he had not given them a thorough review and had
not �ead every word of the studies which was his normal habit. He reviewed
the conclusions and he agreed with the basis of the conclusions and the
rrri
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�
calculations and the studies concluded that the proposed site would generate
half the traffic of the approved residential site and with that particular
statement he agreed.
Mr. Slor said he did a little bit of work on that and there were about
750 residents in this facility and the number of workers and everyone
else would probably be around 2,000 total people. About two thirds
would be workers in the facility, all leaving about the same time of day
so that although on the average there might be less traffic spread out
through the day, during morning hours, afternoon hours and evening
hours they would have something which approaches a real traffic jam
on Country Club. He objected to this totally. It would all be
concentrated at one time of the day.
MRS. LINDA POHLMAN, 41-630 Colada Court, invited the commission,
particularly Mr. Greenwood, to come to her house at any time day or
night and listen to the noise now. Then they could imagine what it
would be after the facility was put in. She said they were all welcome
"' to visit her house.
MR. LARRY ALLEN, 73-780 Calle Bisque in Casablanca, spoke regarding
a letter dated January 15 to Bob Bigler written by Martha Osborne,
Quality Management of the Desert, on behalf of the Board of Directors.
He talked to Martha, the Board talked to Martha, and the Board had not
given the "Board" approval. He personally said to Martha that he was
in favor of the project and saw no objection to the project as presented.
It would be underground so to speak and would not bother them at all.
He felt it would improve their property values. But Martha perhaps on
her own when he said "I" as President of the Association thought he
meant the whole Board. He apologized for any confusion. He said it
was on their agenda for tomorrow's meeting for the Board to vote on.
He was only speaking on his own behalf and he approved of it. He
wasn't aware of the letter until about an hour before the meeting. He
confirmed that he was in favor of the project, thought the project would
improve the values and would not create problems.
MRS. RUTH FINE, 73-800 Calle Bisque in Casablanca, asked what their
utility equipment was. Another thing she wanted to know was if this
,,,�, company, Bigler and/or Royce International, what they have built and
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�
where. She was assuming they have built a project like this elsewhere
and she wanted to know where it was and if it was still in existence.
Mr. Bigler readdressed the commission. He noted that one of the
questions that was raised was that the southeast corner of the property
was where the maintenance property was. The southeast corner of the
property was out of their jurisdiction and was the Coachella Valley
Water District well site that they had to dedicate to them and that was
where it would be. It became a logical position to put the maintenance
building in the same area. From what the commission saw in the
drawings in their packets, they had the building down right next to the
property line. In discussions with the city they moved it 80 feet further
north to get it away from the property lines so that they could retain
some of the oleanders down there.
Mr. Joy indicated that the latest site plans Mr. Bigler was referring to were in
the commission packets. That was the biggest conflict between the
conceptual plan in the colored site plan booklet and the revised plan.
�
Mr. Bigler said the other issue that came up was traffic. He said he
wasn't a traffic engineer and all he could do was read from Kimley-
Horne's findings and this was one of the biggest traffic engineers in the
United States with 20-30 offices throughout the country. He indicated
that on page four of the study it said that the Villa Portofino community
was expected to generate a total of 1 ,503 trip ends on an average
weekday with approximately 173 and 125 trip ends occurring during
the a.m. and p.m. peak hours. Compared to the next paragraph it said
that a residential development consisting of 241 single family homes
and 162 apartments, which was what it was approved for, would
generate 3,434 trip ends on an average weekday. That was 3,434
compared to 1,503. With the a.m. and p.m. peak hours being 262 and
324 as compared to 173 and 125. It was their finding, the experts,
that were telling them that it was a substantial decrease all day long
with 56% less traffic, but they could also see it during the a.m. and
p.m. peak hours with about half there as well.
Mr. Drell asked Mr. Bigler to address the question about the utilities.
Mr. Bigler thought that was referring to the maintenance yard. �
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...�
Mr. Drell said it referred to the undergrounding of the power lines.
Mr. Bigler said the undergrounding was something that was being
worked out now between the developer and the City in terms of taking
the power lines down. From a cost standpoint it was very expensive to
take them down. What they were working on was an agreement
whereby they would initially go in and put in conduit and as the project
develops those lines would be taken down and put into that conduit.
Eventually those lines would come down.
Mr. Joy noted that one of the requirements of the first phase was the need for
a bus shelter at the entrance of the property opposite Palm Desert Greens and
that would be one of the City's requirements, that the bus turnout be
improved as part of the first phase also.
Chairperson Campbell closed the public hearing and asked the commission for
comments.
�"" MR. LARRY FINE asked for and was granted permission to address the
commission. He asked if there could be a postponement in view of
what had happened here in terms of their feeling that there was not
notification. He wanted to bring that concern to the commission's
attention.
Someone from the audience spoke and said that the applicant had not
addressed all of their questions such as what other projects like this they had
built.
Mr. Bigler stated that this kind of project had not been built at this scale
and scope before so he couldn't say he had done a project like this.
Royce International had not done a project like this. He said he has
been a practicing architect in Arizona, California, Colorado and New
Mexico for 25 years. Their resume included numerous medical facilities,
residential facilities, apartment complexes, an urgent care center--all of
those. Wilson Jones had a similar background. He pointed out that he
spent five years and Mr. Jones spent eight years working with Benny
Gonzales who designed Palm Desert City Hall.
�
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..r
Commissioner Beaty noted there was one other question about any projects
that Royce International has built.
Mr. LaMelza explained that Royce International is an investment
company. Royce International hired, and Mr. Snyder was working for
Royce and Royce had given the commission Mr. Snyder's resume. He
built hospitals, the Merrill Lynch facility which is a couple of million
square feet in Princeton, the Liberty Place at 1 .2 million square feet in
Philadelphia, etc. There was a five-page resume of his
accomplishments. Mr. Snyder would build this project and he would be
one of the first residents in this project and would probably retire in this
area.
Chairperson Campbell asked Mr. Drell for confirmation that as far as the City
was concerned, notices were mailed. Mr. Drell concurred and indicated that
the legal requirement was to send out notices according to the County roll and
the goal was to make the project known. Obviously by the attendance tonight
the existence of the project and the existence of this hearing was known. He
noted that this was not the final action on this item. If it was approved, it ,,,�
would be going to City Council and he suggested that all of those present who
did not get a notice, regardless of where or how they were listed in the rolls,
could get a notice. He also noted that the notices only go out to the property
owners within 300 feet of the property automatically. If those beyond 300
feet requested notification, staff would send them a notification as well. If
they wished to give the City the entire mailing list for everyone in Casablanca
for the city council hearing, staff would send a notice to everyone in
Casablanca to any address they wanted it sent to, but legally the City was
required to send it to the County roll. Staff could send it beyond that if it
addresses were supplied to staff. Mr. Joy mentioned that he talked with the
property manager and she had volunteered to give him all of the addresses of
the residents so there wouldn't be any further confusion. Staff could also
address the mail to just "resident" of the unit itself.
Chairperson Campbell asked the commission for comments.
Commissioner Finerty noted that they were being asked to approve a change
of zone and generally speaking there needed to be a compelling reason as to
why they would change the zone. As far as she was concerned, there was no
reason to change the zone but rather a compelling concern on her part as to
�
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....
how this project would succeed and how they would fill the beds given the
fact that with the three existing hospitals now and the current population, all
of the skilled nursing beds were not full and given the fact that 600+ units
were going into Rancho Mirage she didn't feel this project would succeed.
She was concerned with the phasing, with having empty buildings and didn't
think it was in the city's best interest at this time. She thought the project
was very beautiful and supported providing homes and places to live for senior
citizens that need help, but to change the zone to accommodate a project this
large that has never been built before, when there was nothing they could
even measure it to that this company has ever done before, and they could
look at competitive companies building like facilities and they weren't this size,
at least in this area, so she was opposed to the change of zone.
Commissioner Beaty said he didn't share Commissioner Finerty's concern. He
didn't think that if the project had no hope of working that the applicants
would be before them risking the kind of money they were talking about,
although that wasn't his concern. He didn't feel he should base his judgement
on whether or not he thought it would succeed. He didn't hear anything from
�"' the testimony that was substantiated. It didn't matter what was going to be
built there. Noise would increase. Traffic would increase. He noted that he
lives right across the street from the Carlotta and they were great neighbors.
Yes, there were times when an ambulance came. If he had a choice of living
there or in a neighborhood full of the general population, the Carlotta was a
great neighborhood and he sensed this would be a similar situation. He was
in favor of the project.
Chairperson Campbell said she also lived across from Casablanca and knew the
traffic that goes on there, especially during church services on Sundays. As
far as the project was concerned, just because this has never been built before
that didn't mean it wouldn't work. She felt it was an excellent area and the
project would be very well camouflaged. As Commissioner Beaty pointed out,
the applicants do their homework and she didn't feel they would be spending
their money if they didn't think this was the right place to build and she was
in favor of the project.
Commissioner Jonathan complimented the architects. He said that if this
project was ultimately built and looked half as good in reality as it did in the
pictures he would be very pleased. In his opinion it looked absolutely
„�, beautiful. It was also very weil iaid out in terms of the internal circulation and
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�
in terms of the impacts to the outside traffic. He thought it was a very
thoughtful concept and the aesthetics in his opinion were very pleasing. There
were some concerns he felt were valid that were expressed tonight including
traffic, density, and noise. He noted that he has been on the commission a
long time and some were newer residents to this community than he has been
on the commission and he heard people express the same concerns about
them when their projects were being built, the Sonata, Casablanca and so
forth. Somehow they welcomed them and managed to survive them being
here. The reality was that when they evaluate the impacts of a proposed
project they couldn't do it in isolation in comparison to the dirt because
something would be built next to them. That was the reality. The question
was what it would be and when they looked at the impact of this proposed
project, they had to look at it in comparison to what was already approved and
he believed that what they would get with this project would be a vast
improvement over what was currently approved for the site. If they had
before them the project that was approved on that site, there probably
wouldn't be any sitting room because there would be so many in objection.
He thought, and hoped, that this project would be a blessing in disguise in
terms of the ultimate impact. One thing for sure was that they wouldn't have �
vacant dirt there forever. Something would be built there. It was only a
question of what. He acknowledged that there seemed to be some problem
with the notification process and apologized for that. He thought it was ironic
when someone complained about not being notified and they were at the
meeting, so somehow they heard about it and presumably most people had
heard about it. He proposed to staff that in the future when there was a
planned unit development involved that staff contact the homeowner's
association and get a mailing list from them of their members and make sure
that those people are mailed notification of the public hearing, regardless of
whether they fall within the 300-foot notification radius or not. Those
comments were heard and they would try to improve on the process. He
believed that the City was in compliance with the legal requirements but
sometimes that wasn't enough and if it wasn't enough in this case, he
apologized, and stated that we would do a better job in the future. Apparently
most residents seemed to be in favor. It was like a political process. People
in favor tended not to show up and people that objected tended to show up.
Apparently Palm Desert Greens had 250 people listen personally to the
presentation and none of them were here or at least didn't voice an objection
to the project. There seemed to be a tendency for support, which didn't make
those in opposition wrong just because they were in the minority and didn't
�
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...
mean their concerns were not valid, but they had to take that into
consideration. Finally, with regard to some of the comments made, he hoped
this project was successful. Whenever a project comes before them they
hoped it would be successful, but there was a bit of a cushion here. The
project would only be built in the way it was approved. If the applicant
received Planning Commission approval and subsequently Councif approval, the
project that went up would look substantially like the renderings and
architectural drawings and eventually detailed working drawings that would be
presented. If the applicant goofed up and failed financially, the likelihood was
that it wouldn't sit there empty but someone else would buy it out like they
have seen done in other places and operate it more efficiently and more
effectively. Physically, in terms of looking at the land use, they should and
could expect to end up with something that looked like what was presented.
From there they could only hope that the applicants had done their homework
and done the financial feasibility analysis appropriate in this case and had a
reasonable likelihood of operating this profitably so that things ended up the
way they expected and hoped that they would, but if not, he felt there was
a cushion there and didn't want to be in a position of second guessing the
� financial feasibility because that was a whole different world than what they
were to deal with which was a land use issue. Based on all of the above, his
inclination was to agree with much of what had been said and he would be in
favor of the project as presented.
Chairperson Campbell asked for a motion.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Beaty, seconded by Chairperson Campbell,
approving the findings as presented by staff. Motion carried 3-1-1
(Commissioner Finerty voted no and Commissioner Lopez abstained►.
It was moved by Commissioner Beaty, seconded by Chairperson Campbell,
adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 1912, recommending to City
Council approval of GPA 98-6, C/Z 98-7, PP/CUP 98-21 and associated
development agreement, subject to conditions. Motion carried 3-1-1
(Commissioner Finerty voted no and Commissioner Lopez abstained).
A FIVE MINUTE RECESS WAS CALLED AT 8:28 P.M. CHAIRPERSON CAMPBELL
...
RECONVENED THE MEETING AT 8:35 P.M.
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w
IX. MISCELLANEOUS
None.
X. ELECTION OF OFFICERS AND COMMITTEE LIAISONS
A. Election of Chairpe�son and Vice Chairperson
Action:
It was moved by Chairperson Campbell, seconded by Commissioner Finerty,
electing Sabby Jonathan as Chairperson and Paul Beaty as Vice Chairperson
by minute motion. Motion carried 5-0.
B. Appointment of a Civic Center Steering Committee Representative,
Appointment of a Desert Willow Committee Representative,
Appointment of a Project Area 4 Committee Representative,
Appointment of a Representative to the Palm Desert/Rancho Mirage �
Monterey Avenue Corridor Planning Work Group, and Appointment of
a Zoning Ordinance Review Committee Representative.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Finerty, seconded by Commissioner Campbell,
by minute motion appointing Paul Beaty as the Civic Center Steering
Committee representative, appointing Jirn Lopez as the Desert Willow
Committee representative and Cindy Finerty as the alternate, appointing Cindy
Finerty as the Project Area 4 Committee representative and Sabby Jonathan
as the alternate, appointing Sabby Jonathan as the Palm Desert/Rancho Mirage
Monterey Avenue Corridor Planning Work Group representative, and appointing
Sonia Campbell as the ZORC representative and Cindy Finerty as the alternate.
Motion carried 5-0.
XI. COMMITTEE MEETING UPDATES
A. CIVIC CENTER STEERING COMMITTEE - (No meeting)
�
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
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...
B. DESERT WILLOW COMMITTEE - (January 19, 1999)
Commissioner Finerty informed commission that the g�ound breaking for
the clubhouse would be January 29 at 9:00 a.m. and basically their
meeting was to discuss change orders and informational items.
C. PROJECT AREA 4 COMMITTEE - (January 12, 1999)
Commissioner Finerty said she didn't attend the meeting. She intended
to and arrived at 3:40 p.m. and found out it had concluded and they
have never had a meeting over that quickly, but she spoke to Dave
Yrigoyen and Maria Hunt and it was informational only and the only
thing that would pertain to Planning Commission was the Montessori
appraisal came in and the building was smaller than they thought. She
mentioned that the City was looking at possibly purchasing that building
to use it for day care and turn it over to Parks and Recreation to run,
but there wasn't anything to report.
D. PALM DESERT/RANCHO MIRAGE MONTEREY AVENUE CORRIDOR
... PLANNING WORK GROUP - (No meeting)
E. ZONING ORDINANCE REVIEW COMMITTEE - (No meeting)
XII. COMMENTS
None.
XIII. ADJOURNMENT
It was moved by Chairperson Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner Campbell,
adjourning the meeting. Motion carried 5-0. The meeting was adjourned at
8:42 p.m. �` .
�� -.._� :1.t_.. �
PHILIP DRELL Secretary
ATTEST: (
�
SABBY JONATH N, Chairperson
`` City of Palm Desert, California
/tm
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