HomeMy WebLinkAbout0815 MINUTES
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING
TUESDAY - AUGUST 15, 2000
7:00 P.M. - CIVIC CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBER
tow 73-510 FRED WARING DRIVE
I. CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Beaty called the meeting to order at 7:04 p.m.
II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Chairperson Beaty led in the pledge of allegiance.
III. ROLL CALL
Members Present: Paul Beaty, Chairperson
Sonia Campbell
Cindy Finerty
Members Absent: Jim Lopez, Vice Chairperson
Sabby Jonathan
Staff Present: Phil Drell, Director of Community Development
Bob Hargreaves, City Attorney
Steve Smith, Planning Manager
Jeff Winklepleck, Parks & Rec. Planning Manager
Mark Greenwood, Transportation Engineer
Tonya Monroe, Administrative Secretary
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Consideration of the July 18, 2000 meeting minutes.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Finerty, seconded by Commissioner Campbell,
approving the July 18, 2000 minutes as submitted. Motion carried 2-0-1
(Chairperson Beaty abstained).
Consideration of the August 1 , 2000 meeting minutes.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Chairperson Beaty,
approving the August 1 , 2000 minutes as submitted. Motion carried 2-0-1
r.. (Commissioner Finerty abstained).
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Nod
V. SUMMARY OF COUNCIL ACTION
No meeting.
VI. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
None.
VII. CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Case No. PMW 00-22 - NOBLE AND COMPANY, Applicants
Request for approval of a parcel map waiver to adjust a rear
property line to accommodate an existing block wall within the
Montecito residential development.
B. Case No. PMW 00-17 - BIGHORN DEVELOPMENT, EDWARD &
ELIZABETH HARSHFIELD
Request for approval of a parcel map waiver to adjust a lot line
to increase the lot area to accommodate a proposed home within
Mountains at Bighorn.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner Finerty,
approving the Consent Calendar by minute motion. Motion carried 3-0.
Vill. PUBLIC HEARINGS
Anyone who challenges any hearing matter in court may be limited to raising
only those issues he or she or someone else raised at the public hearing
described herein, or in written correspondence delivered to the Planning
Commission at, or prior to, the public hearing.
Mr. Drell stated that it was brought to staff's attention by Regency Estates that there was
a significant omission of property owners on the property owners' list used for mailing the
legal notices for Public Hearing Item D. Staff's recommendation was to move Item D to the
beginning of the agenda and continue the matter to the next meeting, September 5, 2000,
after opening the public hearing and taking testimony. Commissioner Finerty requested, due
to the amount of correspondence received, that in the interim the applicant meet with
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Regency Estates HOA, Palm Desert Resorter and the city's Project Area 4 Committee. It
was noted that the Project Area 4 Committee was meeting on Monday and that this item
would be discussed.
Mr. Drell recommended that the Item D be moved to the front of the agenda, the public
hearing be opened and testimony taken from those that absolutely could not attend on
September 5. He also pointed out that this was a recommendation to the City Council and
there would be a subsequent hearing and noticing of a hearing before City Council probably
at the end of September. He suggested that those present hold their comments until
September 5 if they could attend that meeting.
It was moved by Commissioner Finerty, seconded by Commissioner Campbell, reordering
the Public Hearing items and moving Item D to the beginning. Motion carried 3-0.
D. Case Nos. GPA 00-07, C/Z 00-05, TT 29468, TT 29555, DA 00-01 -
ABD PALM DESERT 118, LLC, Applicant
Request for recommendation of approval to City Council of a
Negative Declaration of Environmental Impact, a General Plan
`W Amendment from Low Density Residential/Industrial to Low
Density Residential/Park, a Change of Zone from R-1 12,000 to
R-1/Open Space, a Tentative Tract Map for 270 single family lots
(8,000 square feet minimum) and one lot for park purposes, a 9
lot Tentative Tract Map for financing purposes and a
Development Agreement on 118± acres at the northeast corner
of Tamarisk Row Drive and Country Club Drive.
Chairperson Beaty noted that the commission was probably going to continue
this matter, but would open up the public hearing.
Mr. Winklepleck stated that staff would be renoticing the matter. He indicated
that there were some additional items that the developer wished to input. He
would prefer to give the staff report on September 5 unless someone present
wished to speak and could not be here on September 5.
Chairperson Beaty opened the public testimony and asked if anyone wished to
speak on this matter. There was no one. The public hearing was left open
and Chairperson Beaty asked for commission comments or action.
Uffo
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Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner Finerty,
GPA 00-07, C/Z 00-05, TT 29468, TT 29555, and DA 00-01 to September
5, 2000 by minute motion. Motion carried 3-0.
A. Case No. PP/CUP 00-16 - RICHARD J. HECKMAN FOUNDATION,
Applicant
Request for approval of a precise plan of design/conditional use
permit for the first phase of the Richard J. Heckman International
Center for Entrepreneurial Management to be located on 7.8
acres located at the northeast corner of Cook Street and Frank
Sinatra Drive, 75-150 Frank Sinatra Drive.
Mr. Smith explained that the city acquired some 200 acres at Frank Sinatra on
the east side of Cook Street for the future campus of Cal State. The Heckman
Foundation working with UC Riverside for the Heckman International Center
for Entrepreneurial Management was working on a deal with Cal State to
occupy eventually up to 20 acres on the corner, the northeast corner of Frank
Sinatra and Cook. Plans and the material sample board were on display. He
said the applicants were looking at putting the facility as part of the site at
Cook at Frank Sinatra. They were seeking approval tonight of the academic
institution including classrooms, lecture halls, administrative offices, and other
ancillary facilities. It would be two stories and a total of just under 34,000
square feet. The exterior height would be 32 feet. The height in the zone was
limited to 24 feet. The zone provided for an exception through code section
25.24.310. Staff felt the exception was warranted given the increased
setbacks and the very low coverage in the range of 8% for the site. The
building would be in a campus type setting. He felt parking was more than
adequate for code purposes. The code requirement was 201 spaces and there
would be about 438 spaces provided. The architecture was quite
contemporary and was given conceptual approval by the Architectural Review
Commission. They endorsed it heartily and were quite excited about it. They
looked forward to continuing to work with the applicant. Mr. Smith pointed
out that findings for approval of the precise plan/conditional use were outlined
on pages 3 and 4 of the staff report. The matter would be referred to the city
council as part of the height exception process. Regarding environmental
review, in 1999 an EIR was prepared and certified pursuant to Council
Resolution 99-34. The EIR analyzed impacts created by the Cal State campus #
on 204 acres. This proposed campus within the Cal State campus would not
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create impacts beyond those previously identified and mitigated in the EIR.
One of the conditions of approval required that this applicant implement all
applicable mitigative measures identified in the EIR. The project was
consistent with the EIR, therefore, staff determined that it was previously
assessed and no further documentation was necessary. Staff recommended
approval subject to the conditions contained in the report.
Chairperson Beaty opened the public hearing and asked the applicant to
address the commission.
MR. NORBERTO NARI, the principal of Architram, the designer of the
proposed facility, said they read the recommendations of staff and fully
agreed and would be working to comply with those requirements. He
asked for any questions.
Chairperson Beaty asked if anyone present wished to speak in FAVOR or
OPPOSITION to the proposal. There was no one and the public hearing was
closed. Chairperson Beaty asked for commission comments and/or action.
Commissioner Finerty stated that she would move for approval due to the
following. She agreed that the 32-foot height exception would be warranted
given the setbacks and the proposed 8.5% coverage. She thought there were
interesting cooling strategies being used and enjoyed reading about that. She
also found the architecture appealing and liked the fact that they were using
the Desert Willow tree in their landscape palette.
Commissioner Campbell concurred with Commissioner Finerty. She felt it was
an excellent project in the perfect location and seconded the motion.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Finerty, seconded by Commissioner Campbell,
approving the findings as presented by staff. Motion carried 3-0.
It was moved by Commissioner Finerty, seconded by Commissioner Campbell,
adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 2008, approving PP/CUP 00-16,
subject to conditions. Motion carried 3-0.
Chairperson Beaty stated that looked forward to seeing The Heckman
Foundation. He personally knew Mr. Heckman and knew this would be a first
class project.
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B. Case Nos. PP/CUP 00-09 and TT 29528 - DESERT WILLOW
CONFERENCE CENTER, LLC AND PALM DESERT REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY, Applicants (Continued from August 1 , 2000)
Request for recommendation to City Council for approval of a tentative
tract map to subdivide approximately 106 acres into 7 lots (TT 29528),
approval of a precise plan of design/conditional use permit for the Hilton
Conference Center including 250 suites, a 64,250 square foot
conference center, parking structure and accessory structures on Lot 2,
TT 29528, and a height exception for the conference center building all
located on a 16.86 acre site at the northeast end of Desert Willow
Drive, 39-000 Desert Willow Drive.
Mr. Smith explained that commission received two additional letters after the
reports went out. One was from Mr. Sanford and the other was a memo from
the Engineering Manager, Joe Gaugush. Mr. Smith noted that this matter was
previously before commission on August 1 . At that time there were several
outstanding issues involving parking, the pad elevations, the second story
balconies with a view to the east, site lighting and noise. From a parking
perspective, staff met with the applicant and they felt there was a need to
create an offsite parking facility for overflow parking. The city created an
additional 200 parking spaces in response to the demand at the clubhouse
facility. Those spaces would disappear when the city received the resort hotel
proposal in the future. If it was approved they would need to replace those
200 spaces. Staff felt there was a need to have overflow parking available for
this facility also, so staff included a condition requiring within a reasonable
distance a 300 space overflow lot. Relative to the pad elevation concern, the
applicant was asked to take a look at lowering the pad ten feet, five feet or
two feet. They had a preliminary response from them at the last meeting.
They had since then prepared a more in-depth response as to what would be
involved in lowering the pad those various amounts. It included the amount
of work that had already been done, what would have to be undone, and what
would happen to drainage. Essentially the costs and impacts increased with
the greater amount of lowering of the pad. With two feet of lowering, the
estimated cost was just under $800,000. At five feet of lowering there was
an estimated cost of $1 ,774,000. Lowering the pad ten feet had an estimated
cost of about $4,605,000. As Mr. Gaugush's memo indicates, based on the
available information he felt these estimates were within the realm of reason.
Mr. Smith indicated that Mr. Sonnenblick reminded him that the chart and cost
did not include down time for the golf course, so the amount would increase.
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Forma, who was doing the photo view analysis for the city, prepared a revised
photo view analysis showing the structures lowered five feet. Staff provided
colored copies to commission. In staff's opinion, lowering the site for the cost
involved did not create a significant enough improvement to warrant the
expense. Staff was going to suggest requiring the applicant to plant additional
trees in the area east of the buildings and then condition that these trees be
maintained at a height not greater than 24 feet because staff didn't want the
trees growing to such a height that they become the obstruction instead of the
buildings. Staff had an opportunity to review the proposed solution for the
balconies facing east. Mr. Smith felt the details would works. Site lighting
was brought up at the last meeting. Staff added a condition which required
conformance with the city's lighting ordinance. Everyone was required to do
that, but that condition was in place. Even though there was about 350 feet
of separation, staff placed this project in the category of being adjacent to
residential which had a greater limitation on light trespass. This was discussed
with the applicant and he was agreeable. Mr. Smith stated that he had a
phone call from Barbara Boyer last week expressing concern with respect to
outdoor entertainment and fireworks. Staff included a condition limiting
outdoor entertainment to noise levels which would not cross the property line
tow and limiting fireworks to exclude percussion type fireworks. The findings for
approval of the precise plan/conditional use permit were outlined on pages 3
and 4 of the August 15 staff report. This proposal included a provision for a
height exception for the conference center building which was 30 feet high
versus the 24 foot limit in the PR zone. This also had 36 foot high tower
elements. Given the separation and distance from surrounding uses, staff felt
the height exception could be supported. Environmentally, there was an EIR
prepared in 1994 which was certified pursuant to City Council Resolution No.
99-119. That document assumed a 250-room hotel two stories in height and
that was what was being proposed. The project was consistent with that
reviewed in the EIR, therefore, it had previously been assessed and no further
documentation was necessary. Staff recommended that commission
recommend approval of the project to the city council. Mr. Drell stated that
there was one additional condition in response to a letter by Reid Sanford
relative to construction traffic on the maintenance road running parallel to
Taylor behind Montecito. He requested that this road not be used by
construction traffic and staff agreed that Desert Willow should try to find a
way to internalize the construction traffic by using the main entrance or the
entrance on Portola. This would eliminate construction traffic unless it was
absolutely necessary, which would require them obtaining an exception from
the city.
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Commissioner Finerty stated for the record that she listened to the tape of the
last meeting, read the minutes and reviewed ail the documents and
correspondence relative to this case and was prepared to participate.
Chairperson Beaty opened the public hearing and asked if the applicant wished
to address the commission.
MR. ROBERT SONNENBLICK, a principal in the development company
proposing the development, pointed out that as seen in the August 15
staff report, there were four issues brought before the commission and
one additional one brought up over the phone. He stated that they have
endeavored through meetings with staff to address every single one of
these issues as well as issues that have been brought before the city
council. As a result of these discussions with staff, they agreed to
alleviate all of these issues and per the staff report, which he felt
addressed these correctly, he believed they had come to satisfactory
answers to all the issues. He wanted to point out that the hotel units
themselves were 24 feet as was discussed before. One reference was
made to a tower which was part of the development which was slightly
higher than the 24 feet. The garage was about 19 feet, but there was
a part of the tower that was slightly higher than the 24 feet. He felt it
was a fairly minor part of the development so he wanted to point out
for the record that there was something that was slightly higher than
24. It made up about 5 percent of the whole project. On the back of
the staff report as Mr. Smith correctly reported, they had analyzed per
the request of the neighbors the idea of lowering the pads either two
feet down, five feet down or 10 feet down. Those were new and
accurate numbers. They made reference to them at the August 1
meeting. These were the exact quotes from the contractor and as Mr.
Smith correctly pointed out, the one thing Mr. Sonnenblick made
mention of to the commission was that in order to do this work, holes
10, 11 and 12 had to be closed down and lowered as well. The
numbers before the commission did not include the loss of revenue to
the city for closing those three holes. He knew there was another
course, but when they closed those three holes, they pretty much had
to close the whole course for that four-month period. These numbers
did not include the loss of revenues to the city. They were just hard
construction costs. The other issues were discussed and they agreed
per staff's request to an agreement regarding additional parking and
they and would do so in writing. The pad elevations were talked about.
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They also provided staff with information on the second floor balconies
and adding on the planters so as to protect the privacy of the people
whose homes were on the western side of Montecito. He agreed with
staff's recommendation to do that. The site lighting they agreed with,
especially on the parking garage since the Architectural Review Board
asked them to put trellises up and landscaping on those trellises. He
said it was very easy for them to add lighting there so as to mitigate the
idea of huge lighting all over the place. They could very specifically just
light the garage and keep the lighting down to the necessary foot
candles so it didn't really appear to people who live in Montecito that
this garage was lit up bright white and didn't light up the whole sky.
They had done a lighting plan and a drawing was given to staff tonight
that would make it so that just the garage was lit and it didn't appear
to light up the whole sky up all around it. The last issue dealt with
noise. Mr. Sonnenblick said that he lives in Los Angeles and drives out
here every 4th of July with his family because Palm Desert had a
phenomenal fireworks display that the city puts on and they had no
desire to do their own fireworks at the hotel. He said it was just the
opposite. With the fireworks display that the city does, they had no
`r interest in doing their own and in fact he came out here just to see the
city's fireworks. Agreeing not to do fireworks and things like that was
not a problem and they were in full agreement with staff's
recommendation. On page 1 were the five issues brought up to them
per the last meeting and they agreed with staff's recommendation on
all five of those issues as they had with previous Architectural Review
issues. He asked for any questions or if the public had any issues, he
would be happy to come back up and address them. In conclusion he
agreed with all of staff's recommendations.
Commissioner Finerty stated that from listening to the tape, she appreciated
the fact that Mr. Sonnenblick had lowered the height, reduced the number of
rooms and changed the colors which she felt made a huge difference and it
appeared that the balcony, lighting and noise issues had been resolved. She
said that the remaining issues which stood out in her mind were parking and
pad elevation. She asked if Mr. Sonnenblick had met with the homeowners
recently to get any kind of sense or feeling as to what it was they might be
looking for as far as a potential height reduction.
Mr. Sonnenblick said that just from these meetings, and he knew that
Commissioner Finerty wasn't present on August 1, but he made a
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comment in the public meeting which he stood by and that was should
the city decide it wished to lower the pad 10 feet, they were in full
agreement with it. He was not a person standing before the
commission blocking any lowering of the pads. It was just the
opposite. The agreement they had with the city, unfortunately, was
that whatever the cost of lowering the pad which was shown on the
back page of the staff report, was the city's dollar, not his. If the city
said that in order to get this done that the pad had to be lowered 10
feet, he was not in any way stopping or fighting that.
Commissioner Finerty indicated she understood that. Her concern was
obviously the cost, but in addition to that they would create an awful lot of
construction and as mentioned if they went down five feet or 10 feet they
might run into unexpected problems and the costs would rise in addition to the
cost of closing the course. She was trying to get a sense of what the
homeowners that were effected wanted. She understood that there were nine
lots that were effected by six villas. The bottom line for her was that the EIR
was approved at the original grade, which was 263 feet to 265 feet at that
time, then a height of 24 feet for the villas above that which was approved.
Now they knew that the grade had gone up and the elevation had gone up to
275. That put them to 299 instead of 289 which was basically what any
perspective buyer would have thought. So she was trying to look at options
that might find them some common ground. One of the options that she
wanted to ask Mr. Sonnenblick about was if there was a potential to: a) lower
the villas; or b) possibly reduce those six villas that would affect the nine lots
and reduce them to one story or somehow lower the height from 24 feet down
so that they could help to mitigate their views. Obviously there was testimony
that they paid extra for those lots and she was trying to see what Mr.
Sonnenblick might be amenable to.
Mr. Sonnenblick stated for the record that he heard Commissioner
Finerty say something that was news to him. He was under the
impression and staff stated on the record two weeks ago that the EIR
was approved with that elevation being 275, not 263. He had never
heard the number 263 she just mentioned.
Commissioner Finerty explained that she was assuming, and her assumption
might be wrong, but her assumption was that when the EIR was done back in
1994, that it would have been at the original height.
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Mr. Sonnenblick asked if Mr. Drell knew anything about that.
Mr. Drell thought it was probably not addressed either way. He thought that
there was an assumption that it would be graded and basically there were high
points and low points and he didn't believe the issue was specifically
addressed at all, although he could be wrong. Commissioner Finerty stated
that was the way they arrived at the 10 feet, and she assumed the 10
additional feet occurred after the EIR.
Mr. Sonnenblick said that 10 feet was just a number they pulled out of
the air.
Commissioner Finerty said that she knew it was two to 10 feet. Right now
they were hearing any where from 265 to 275 and that was how they got the
reductions of two feet, five feet or 10 feet.
Mr. Sonnenblick said that the two feet, five feet and 10 feet were
literally numbers he pulled out of the air to just do an analysis on.
Again, the 263 number Commissioner Finerty was talking about he had
ir. never heard before.
Mr. Drell stated that as described in the first staff report, varying amounts of
fill were added to the pad raising it from two to 10 feet. Commissioner Finerty
concurred. Mr. Drell said that two feet was added on the north side up to 10
feet on the south side. By definition EIRs were done prior to projects and what
was pointed out by the residents of Montecito was that in the original EIR
there was no view analysis that would have looked at the impact of buildings
at various heights. Other than the fact that the buildings would be 24 feet and
two stories. That was really an issue that now that they had a building and
golf course they were examining now. He didn't think that there was an
assumption in the EIR that the pad height would stay at 263 since the building
pad varied from 263 up to 270 originally. Commissioner Finerty asked for
clarification. The EIR was done in 1994. Mr. Drell concurred. Commissioner
Finerty said that they were assuming then that the fill was added after that
with the construction of the golf course. Mr. Drell concurred. Commissioner
Finerty said they then approved an additional 24 feet for the buildings and
asked if the 24 feet were added onto when the EIR was originally done or after
the golf course construction. Mr. Drell stated that he didn't think pad
elevations were specifically identified in the EIR. The fine points of the design
had not been extended to that detail at that point in time. Commissioner
rr.
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Finerty asked how much of an increase in height the nine lots would be looking
at. Mr. Drell said that measured from the natural grade, two to 10 feet.
Commissioner Finerty asked if that two to 10 varied throughout the nine lots.
Mr. Drell said yes, the lots that were most northerly were looking at two feet
and the lots most southerly were looking at 10 feet. Of the southerly lots that
were ten feet, Commissioner Finerty asked if they knew how many of the
villas would be effected.
Mr. Sonnenblick said that very specifically they were talking about the
six on the easterly side. He thought he could answer the question very
clearly now that he understood what she was asking. If they were for
example to take these six sets of villas and for example make them
single story villas as opposed to two story villas, 6 x 8 = 48 and it
would change their room count from 250 to 200 and at that point they
wouldn't do the project. The biggest problem was that there was really
no more land. If they were single-story, there was no place to then add
those 50 units back any where on the project and once they got down
to 200, the project wouldn't make sense and they wouldn't do it.
Commissioner Finerty asked if 24 feet was necessary for two stories.
Mr. Sonnenblick said yes.
Commissioner Finerty asked if it two stories could be done in anything less
than 24 feet.
Mr. Scott Beck, a principal with Gin Wong Associates Architects, stated
that currently at 24 feet the building already had a very minimal floor to
floor and a very short four-foot parapet height to conceal the
mechanical units on the roof. Lowering it any more would result in a
below standard head room in the units or in exposing the mechanical
units, which wouldn't be something they would want to do.
Commissioner Finerty asked if 20 feet was totally out of the question.
Mr. Beck said they really had to push to get it to 24 and they really
sharpened their pencils to get it down to a 24-foot height.
Mr. Drell informed commission that their original submittal was 30 feet, but
all two story units in the city were at 24 feet and staff would agree that it was
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the minimum. Any lower and they would start losing the architecture and
would eventually lose the roof structure and end up with a box. Commissioner
Finerty stated that she was just trying to examine any potential options for
dealing with the pad height elevation issue. Mr. Drell said they examined that
and got them down from 30 feet.
Mr. Sonnenblick pointed out that in front of commission was a colored
visual simulation that showed the views from Montecito of the property
and he pointed out one picture which showed the effect of five feet of
lowering. He said that they could then imagine the effect of 10 feet,
which be felt made very little difference.
Commissioner Finerty asked if this visual simulation had been shown to the
homeowners in Montecito.
Mr. Sonnenblick said he didn't know.
Members of the audience said no. Commissioner Finerty thought it would be
helpful for the residents to see it.
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Mr. Sonnenblick said they would be happy to share them with the
homeowners.
The commission gave their copies to Mr. Sonnenblick and requested that they
be shown to any interested individuals in the audience.
Chairperson Beaty asked if there were any other questions for the applicant.
There being none, he asked if anyone wished to speak in FAVOR or
OPPOSITION to the proposal.
MRS. PAT MITCHELL, 38 Lucerne in Palm Desert, stated that she had
two questions. First of all, the notice that was sent out by the city
showed a site bordering on the south side of Montecito. That was
confusing because they weren't sure what this map picture was of
since they weren't talking about the Intrawest Timeshares.
Mr. Drell clarified that it was just a locational map that showed the general
location of the project. Mr. Smith stated that it included the tentative map
that they were also doing in that they specified that the hotel project was on
Lot 2 of that tract map.
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Mrs. Mitchell asked for and received clarification on the location of Lot
2, the convention center and Intrawest.
Mr. Smith also explained that three golf holes made up three of the lots.
Mrs. Mitchell said that she also had a response to Mr. Sonnenblick. If
he was to put one story units on those six lots, she asked if he could
put the rest of them on the east side which would have a nicer view, it
would have the western view, and on the east side they would block
the view by putting in balconies and planters any way, so she asked if
they could raise one portion to three stories since that didn't affect any
homeowners.
Chairperson Beaty noted that Mr. Sonnenblick would respond later and asked
if anyone else wished to address the commission.
MR. MIKE MITCHELL, 38 Lucerne in Montecito, said that the first item
he would like to address concerned the adequacy of the Environmental
Impact Report which was completed in 1994. Normally an EIR would
not specify the contouring or natural elevations of property unless they
were going to be raised. He disagreed with the city when they said this
was a good EIR. It was not. It did not identify or address the scenic
impacts to residents along there because there weren't residents along
there at the time. So it needed a supplemental addendum to the EIR.
Getting back to the elevations, because an EIR didn't normally say that
the elevation was 270 or 266, they assumed--the spirit of the EIR--was
that it would be at its natural elevation and for folks to get up and say
that this was okay and natural, it wasn't what an EIR was for. It was
for assessing environmental impacts. What they had said was against
the spirit of the EIR. He said he would like to work with the city and
this was his tax dollars as well as everyone elses, and he thought about
compromise and felt that they should all compromise. He thought it
was silly to take $4.6 million to grade out and lower the pad 10 feet to
the original elevation of the desert. He thought that wasn't reasonable
so why not just make it one story instead. Sonnenblick said it was a no
go, but he personally thought that was a bluff. When they started
having these meetings in front of the city council, the Marriott
Corporation was here and they stated that they were only 60%
occupied. He thought they were over developing in terms of hotels and
rooms. He could foresee Marriott or this development putting one
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another out of business and he thought that the Planning Commission,
if they would compromise and do the right thing for the Marriott, the
city and for Montecito and lower the project to one story. He didn't
think 50 units would make or break this situation. There was a parking
problem and a noise problem any way. He asked why they couldn't
just build one story there. He felt that was a reasonable compromise.
He felt the EIR was inadequate and felt it needed to be addressed
further and an addendum made to it and impacts mitigated in terms of
visual impacts caused by this project, the scenic values, the noise,
buses, headlights at night, tour buses, and none of this was foreseen
in 1994 and they should not stand behind a document over six years
old that could not foresee this and he resented that they were doing
that.
MS. COLLEEN ENGER, a resident at 3 Taylor, concurred with Mr.
Sanford on the use of that utility road. She was there and had been in
her home for over five years and was there when those trucks were
rumbling back and forth. She had broken dishes, cracks in the walls and
just the vibrations in her house when those large trucks went by were
` w enough to wake the dead besides destroying some of her home. She
hoped that they would consider moving the access if they were going
to continue doing some building. Also, she was walking the golf
courses as they were being built and she was so surprised to all of a
sudden see these big berms going up and was really quite shocked to
find out that they were going to be putting all of the casitas or any of
the timeshares on top of those. That was another issue that she had
which was the height of those berms and was opposed to putting in
other living areas that could look at them. She hoped that they would
consider that and appreciated the commission making that a concern
and hoped that would be addressed.
MR. GARY FOY, a resident at 44 Lucerne, stated that he probably was
very affected by the proposal. He referred to the diagram and asked
where the view was taken from.
Mr. Drell said it was taken from the first vacant lot. As the road turns south,
it was the first vacant lot.
Mr. Foy asked if that was from the new section of Montecito or the
older one.
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Mr. Drell explained that it was the furthest north section that was vacant. It
was the first vacant lot on that street that parallels the east side.
Mr. Foy said his lot was slightly south of that by the way the diagram
was drawn. He said he had gone to extensive expenses to try and
provide his own buffer for the back of his lot from the golf course.
Now he obviously purchased his lot with the full knowledge that a golf
course was there and he was comfortable with a golf course there and
he had created some privacy on the back of his lot and he went to
considerable expense to do that, but for him to try and gain any further
privacy from a two-story building across the fairway, he didn't know if
he could get that much sand on the back of his lot. He was concerned
that if the original environmental review was predicated on the height
of the pad, it was all changed now. During the construction of the golf
course there was an additional 10 feet of fill brought in and now they
were going to build on top of that and he thought that just exacerbated
what the original environmental review was and the homeowners who
purchased out there were not thinking that they would have two stories
on top of what was essentially a third story. He would agree with one
of the other homeowners that said they ought to look at reducing that
because he could tell them that the way it was drawn here, these
casitas would look down on top of his area. He had been able to buffer
the golf course, but couldn't buffer that. He thought it had a material
impact on the fair market value on his investment and didn't understand
the public policy of giving the land away free and allowing a developer
to gain such an economic advantage that was going to negatively effect
the homeowners. He said his other concern was that if he had to pay
the full market value for his lot and had to adhere to a city lot height
either by the engineering or city planning, he asked how it was that this
site could import 10 feet of fill and now they were going to build on top
of that. He was perplexed that the city would permit that. He would
agree with one of the other homeowners that indicated that they were
doing the Washington Monument Game here. The developer said that
if they couldn't do this they would not be able to have this project go
forward. He thought there was enough invested and enough economic
gain here that doing a one story height on the eastern side could
happen. He said he would probably have to have some independent
calculation of the cost to remove the fill dirt. Some of the estimates
that were tossed around at the last meeting were "seat of the pants"
estimates and until the city really had some independent calculations of
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what the cost of removal of that fill would be, he didn't feel the
commission could make an informed decision as to whether it was a
viable cost that they should consider for reducing the pad height.
Chairperson Beaty asked if Mr. Sonnenblick would like to make any rebuttal
comments.
Mr. Sonnenblick stated that they would agree to the utility road
limitation during construction. That was new to them, but per the
residents' request, there was plenty of access from the main road as
opposed to coming in off of Cook with the construction trucks and
things like that and on the record, they could agree to that and it would
not be a problem. They had also agreed to do the additional
landscaping proposed on their east side to mitigate the issues in staff's
report. He stated that for all of the units on the east side for the villas
that look toward Montecito they had taken away the east views and he
wanted Mr. Foy to be comfortable that they had agreed to do that in
writing as part of their deal. There was no one standing in one of those
villas who looked east who would have the ability to look toward his
unit. They put up planters so that they could only look north and south
and could not look east. They agreed to do that as part of their deal.
A person standing at 5'10" tall would look into a planter looking east.
Regarding switching 50 units from their eastern side to the western
side, they could do that but when they do that, the new western side
units would violate the 24-foot height limitation in the EIR and that
would cause them to have to go through a whole new EIR process
which they were not willing to do. But'the idea of what they were
talking about was okay, but the EIR process would have to start all over
again if they were to switch those units across.
Someone from the audience spoke up and said that it should be done any way
since the elevations had changed.
Mr. Sonnenblick stated that staff's report was clear on its position of
the EIR. For the record, he said a comment was made about the
Marriott Desert Springs Resort only having a 60% occupancy. He
stated that was a false number and didn't know where that came from
but it wasn't a correct number and he would state that on the record.
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Mr. Drell stated that staff would like to respond to some of the comments for
the record. For the issue of the EIR and the lack of view analysis, staff
acknowledged at the very first meeting that there wasn't an adequate view
analysis and that was why they spent $10,000 specifically on a view analysis.
They discussed, showed pictures and provided both the public and the
commission with numerous, very accurate, illustrative exhibits that depicted
the impact of these buildings on view. He further explained that EIRs are
instruments to provide decision makers with information. He was confident
enough to say that with their view analysis they had provided the commission
with adequate information that illustrates the impact on the views from this
project on the residents. The issue was not the adequacy of information, the
issue was whether those impacts were significant and whether there were
mitigation measures which were feasible which would reduce them to a level
of insignificance. That was a decision the commission had to make. That was
a value judgement that was not hampered by a lack of information. The
exhibits were there and staff believed there was adequate evidence in the
record to make the determination one way or another that the impacts were
not significant or that imposed mitigations measures alleviated their impact.
Someone from the audience spoke up and said they couldn't hear.) Mr. Drell
repeated his comments.
Chairperson Beaty addressed a gentleman in the audience and said that he
could see that he was upset and said that in a moment he would close the
public hearing. If the gentleman had anything new to add, Chairperson Beaty
wanted to hear it. If he was just upset, the commission already had his
comments on the record.
Mr. Mitchell readdressed the commission and stated that Mr.
Sonnenblick was at the meeting before the City Council where members
from the Marriott Corporation stated that they were 60% occupied and
that was why they were concerned about this project. Why Mr.
Sonnenblick would deny that now was beyond him. If he wasn't there,
fine. But this was on the record and the commission could go back and
check the council record.
Chairperson Beaty pointed out that it was irrelevant to the Planning
Commission's decision process.
Mr. Mitchell disagreed.
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`ow
Chairperson Beaty explained that the economics of this was not their decision.
The Planning Commission was interested in land use issues.
Mr. Mitchell stated that he was just refuting Mr. Sonnenblick's
comments when he said he didn't know that.
Chairperson Beaty commented that perhaps Mr. Sonnenblick shouldn't have
said that and pointed out that it was irrelevant to the commission.
Mrs. Mitchell readdressed the commission. She had the photo view
analysis copy and asked if that was what the city spent $10,000 on.
Mr. Drell concurred.
Mrs. Mitchell pointed out that the view was practically taken from her
back yard. If they were standing on the ground taking it above the
fence, they were looking at buildings that were raised and that was
what their problem was. These buildings were higher. The bottom of
these buildings were higher than their homes. No matter how many
�., planters were put in, people would be able to look straight across
because they were lower, especially to second story people.
Mr. Drell explained that the higher they were, the line of sight would be above
the roofs.
Mrs. Mitchell said that they needed to address the first floor people then
and she wanted to bring that to the attention of the commission
because it was a valid point about privacy.
Mr. Drell suggested the addition of a condition that the residents at Montecito
have the opportunity to review the landscaping, the berming, the planters of
all those balconies when they get details on them and staff would provide any
analysis necessary to show that they either work or don't work in terms of line
of sight from those properties to hers.
Mrs. Mitchell thanked Mr. Drell.
Mr. Sonnenblick said that they had agreed per staff's request to
increase the landscaping to block off the ground floor units' views of
Montecito.
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Chairperson Beaty closed the public hearing and asked for commission
comments or action.
Commissioner Campbell stated that when the residents of Montecito
purchased there, a few of them did prior to the golf course going in and some
purchased afterwards. She pointed out that any where there was vacant land
people could be sure something would eventually be built and there wouldn't
be perfect views of the mountains. When Desert Willow went in some were
very happy to have a golf course for their backyard and actually staff at that
time was recommending a solid wall on the backyards. Some residents
wanted to have wrought iron bars so that they could have the view of the golf
course and while the commission was concerned about golf balls entering the
backyards, those residents preferred to have the view of the golf course. It
was noted that the Desert Willow project was designed for the pad elevations
shown. The elevations were dictated by the master plan for drainage, sewer,
and water facilities. Since the planning stage, improvements had been
installed based on the pad elevations. At this time she didn't think that the
developer should be penalized for something that had already been there. With
the conditions that the applicant agreed to, she was in favor of the project.
Commissioner Finerty stated that she had three main issues. Number one had
to do with the lack of parking. They were definitely under parked. She
realized it was addressed in condition 7, but condition 7 was contingent upon
the applicant and Redevelopment Agency providing a minimum of 300
additional spaces and it was her understanding that they had no such
agreement at this time. They didn't know where the overflow lot would be
located and they knew it was supposed to be a reasonable distance and didn't
know what that distance was. They knew that according to the staff report
it needed to be expandable and they didn't know what it could expand to. She
said she would feel more comfortable having all the facts regarding the parking
and it was alluded to at the last meeting that everyone loses if they are under
parked. Number two was a concern with pad height. It was a tough call. She
was glad that they had the opportunity to look at the view analysis and it was
hard in her mind to look at that little yellow line and the difference that five
feet makes and the cost associated with that and try to say that is a good
thing to do, knowing that there would be a lot of construction problems that
would occur with that. However, she felt they needed to try and work with
the homeowners to mitigate any potential loss of view which brought her to
the third point. She wanted to see this case continued to discuss the options
that they went through tonight. Obviously some information was new to the
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AUGUST 15, 2000
taw
homeowners and she wasn't certain that there had been enough
communication between the developer and the homeowners to see if
something could be worked out and to also try and determine what the
homeowners that were effected wanted. She knew they had a homeowner's
association and assumed that they had a board of directors. She felt they
should be involved and instead of getting several different letters with
individual wish lists, it would be nice to have them all on the same page and
at that time meet with the developer and staff and try to move forward. She
didn't know if they wanted it lowered two feet, five feet or ten feet. She
didn't know what would be amenable to the homeowners that were effected.
For that reason she would feel most comfortable in continuing the matter.
Chairperson Beaty stated that he felt the concerns had been adequately
addressed in the comments and in staff's study. He felt that item seven
adequately addressed the parking issue. The visuals they had been presented
with showed a series of attractive buildings which did not obstruct the
mountains and specifically did not obstruct Mount Jacinto or Mount San
Gorgonio which were the two he personally liked to look at. He was in favor
of the project and called for a motion.
`..
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Chairperson Beaty,
approving the findings as presented by staff. Motion carried 2-1
(Commissioner Finerty voted no).
It was moved by Commissioner Campbell, second by Chairperson Beaty,
adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 2009, recommending to City
Council approval of Case Nos. PP/CUP 00-09 and TT 29528, subject to
conditions as amended. Motion carried 2-1 (Commissioner Finerty voted no).
Mr. Drell reminded the audience that this matter would be going to council and
they would be receiving notices of a hearing in September. Chairperson Beaty
pointed out that there was an appeal process for the ones that were in
disagreement with the commission's findings.
Mr. Drell requested clarification that the motion included adding the condition
that all view issues from first and second stories would be addressed with the
consultation of the residents. Commission concurred.
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C. Case No. CUP 93-7 Amendment #2 - KACOON'S OASIS, Applicant
Request for approval of amendment to the existing conditional
use permit to permit the use of electric or amplified instruments
in the restaurant patio.
Mr. Smith noted that recently received correspondence was distributed to the
commission. One was from the El Paseo Village Homeowners Association,
from Desert Tennis Boutique, from Gifts from the Heart, from The Feathered
Nest, from Leslie and Jeanette Aikman, and from Johnnie Anderson, Phillip
LaRocca and J.C. Delucca. Mr. Smith explained that there was a similar
request before the commission in December of 1999. The use of this site for
a restaurant dated back to 1993 when they initially approved a conditional use
permit for The Sandwich Board. In the December 1999 request, they had two
issues. One was lengthening the business hours and the second was to have
amplified music at a designated low volume. Commission at that time
approved the extended business hours but did not approve the request for
amplified music. They did extend by one hour the permitted hours for
entertainment. Over the past few months the Sheriff's Department had
received noise complaints concerning amplified music. There were several
reports from Sgt. Alcorn in the commission packets. Staff had conversation
with the applicant urging that she comply with the non-amplified music
condition. June 30 the applicant filed this request for electric or amplified
instruments on the patio. The commission had a letter from the applicant in
their packets where she indicated that there had been no legitimate complaints
from residential neighbors and they were being constantly harassed by the
police department. Due to the property's proximity to residential development
to the west, staff could not support amplified music of any type. The
commission received a letter from the El Paseo Homeowners Association
confirming that they would prefer not to have amplified music. The record
indicated that over the past two years the applicant has routinely violated the
condition limiting entertainment to non-amplified music. In addition to not
recommending approval of amplified music, staff was also recommending that
the commission rescind the approval that allowed outdoor entertainment.
Staff felt that if the applicant couldn't live within the conditions, then that was
the ultimate choice they decided to take on. Mr. Smith indicated_ that he
talked with representatives of the property owner and they advised that they
had not taken a position on this actual request. They did take a position on
the December 1999 request and a copy of that was provided. In conclusion,
staff's recommendation was that they not approve the request to go to
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fu.
amplified entertainment and that the commission amend the conditional use
to prohibit all entertainment/music on the patio.
Commissioner Campbell asked if Mr. Smith found out what the applicant was
allowed as far as musical instruments was concerned, such as a guitar and not
a saxophone or trumpet or if there was anything like that in the minutes at
that time. Mr. Smith stated that the condition related to just non-amplified
music. Commissioner Campbell asked if that included a saxophone. Mr.
Smith said that a saxophone was not mentioned either way.
Chairperson Beaty opened the public hearing and asked the applicant to
address the commission.
MS. GINA FULLMAN, the owner of Kacoon's Oasis at the corner of El
Paseo and Lupine, stated that staff referred to things that have
happened over the past two years, but she has only owned the business
less than one year. Some of that might not apply. She stated that
music was vital to their operation and it helped to create the very
special atmosphere that their patio offered. It also drew people to the
shopping center. She felt that El Paseo was probably the finest
shopping street in the world. Most people agreed that their restaurant
embodied the spirit of El Paseo. Their guests described their ambience
as magical and charming. They thoroughly enjoyed their experience at
Kacoon's Oasis. As a woman entrepreneur she had invested hundreds
of thousands of dollars in this operation and in order to create a special
kind of place. She was paying taxes in Palm Desert and also was an
employer including some of the finest local musicians available. As the
commission knew, they had a lot of corporate chain competitors in the
restaurant business so they needed to be unique in order to attract
customers. She said they would like very much to get along with their
neighbors and were more than willing to cooperate in any way. They
didn't want loud music and never did. She felt that guests should be
able to converse while the music was playing if they chose. As a rule,
when she parks in the back lot behind the restaurant, she couldn't even
hear the music until she walked in closer. The irony of the whole
situation was that almost all portable musical equipment now days was
electronic so the amplification came with the package. It wasn't that
they desired amplification. It was just that for except for a very limited
number of instruments they couldn't have entertainment either way.
She stated that the volume could still be controlled and would definitely
%MW
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AUGUST 15, 2000
do that and intended to do that. She agreed to comply with the City of
Palm Desert's ordinance that restricted sound to below a level of 65
decibels from 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Though they rarely had any
music after 10:00 p.m., they would go down to the 55 decibel
requirement. So they really had no problem with complying with the
law as it stands.
Commissioner Campbell pointed out that the commission granted the applicant
a conditional use permit for non-amplified music yet there were problems
because there was amplified music there.
Ms. Fullman said she explained that unless they settled for nothing ever
but a guitar, what could they do without being electronic. Amplification
was not what they wanted, but the instruments were electronic.
Commissioner Campbell noted that the conditional use permit was granted for
non-amplified music, so that condition was violated.
Ms. Fullman stated that they were well aware of the ordinance
regarding the music, yes.
Chairperson Beaty asked if anyone wished to address the commission in
FAVOR or OPPOSITION to the proposal.
MR. RIC MANDELBAUM, 350 Velano Way in Palm Desert, stated that
he has been a full time resident since 1996 and prior to that he lived in
the upper Bel Air area. Upon moving here he felt that El Paseo was a
very strong competitor and surpassed what was on Rodeo Drive in
Beverly Hills. He thought that one thing that made it such a great area
was both the diversity and the high class of the stores and restaurants
and the entertainment found there. He knew that Commissioner
Campbell was very familiar with El Paseo because she is the head of the
El Paseo Business Association. He thought that she would agree that
one thing they would all like to do was protect the integrity of the area
there. He informed commission that he has spent quite a bit of time at
Kacoon's Oasis and he had thoroughly enjoyed the entertainment. He
thought that one thing he noticed was when people walk by the front
of the restaurant that they were all enchanted by the fact that this was
a little oasis where people could really enjoy themselves, whether they
stopped in or were just on the street in front listening. However, the
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tow
noise level stopped there. He had spent quite a bit of time walking into
the back when he first found out there had been a complaint and he
parked his car behind the building and couldn't hear it there. They
couldn't even hear it in front of Mario's across the street. There was
just no noise level there where they could hear anything. He thought
that really what their purpose in this community was, and Palm Desert
was one of the few cities out here that was pro business, was to
encourage small businesses to really succeed. He said it was a struggle
starting any kind of business, especially a restaurant because there was
a lot of competition out here. He thought that what Kacoon's Oasis
had done was make a valiant effort to really enhance El Paseo and to
start a growing business and hire some very talented people, both the
musicians and people that worked there. He thought they should do
everything possible to encourage businesses like this to continue to
succeed and they ought to help them in every possible way. He didn't
know if there was ever a decibel test done at the location. He asked if
one had been done.
Mr. Drell said he was not aware of one being done.
rr
Mr. Mandelbaum said he would recommend that rather than help put
someone out of business, and this being the heat of the summer, that
they over the next 60 days since she was only open five nights a week,
test it during the next two months, August and September, and see the
decibel count there.
Mr. Drell didn't think it would need to be tested two months. They would just
have to test various areas around the restaurant at various volume levels of
amplification to see at what volume of amplification the music was audible off
the property. He didn't think it would take more than one test.
Mr. Mandelbaum stated that he would then recommend at this time
delaying any action tonight until such a test could take place and give
Gina a full opportunity to prove, and he hadn't heard any noise and he
had listened for it, and see if that was the case. He was sure that Ms.
Fullman would be glad to work within the confines of what was an
agreeable decibel count.
MS. MONIQUE GUIO, an employee at Kacoon's Oasis Restaurant,
informed commission that she has worked with Gina since the
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AUGUST 15, 2000
beginning of January. She was aware of the letters that had been sent
to her by Mr. Smith and the Planning Department. She had a few
questions. One of the things that Mr. Smith stated was that there were
complaints from the residential neighbors. She didn't believe that any
of the telephone calls that were received by the Sheriff's Department
were indeed received by the neighbors. To her knowledge they were
received by the owner of Sweet, Sweet William. Her name is Carol
Zollen. She said that ironically Carol stated in her letter of complaint to
the commission that she has approached them on numerous occasions
to turn the music down and she could vouch for herself as well as the
rest of the staff that that was absolutely untrue. She had never spoken
to them about anything and had never addressed them in writing. As
a matter of fact, Carol's business had been closed since May but she
believed that the city continuously got calls throughout the summer
because she has friends who live in the nearby area. She thought that
Carol lived in Massachusetts and wasn't even a resident of Palm Desert
which she thought was very ironic if it was her voice that was being
heard. The other neighbors that complained were also Gina's business
residential neighbors so it wasn't residential, it was the neighboring
businesses. One of the gentlemen owns a store called My Best Friend.
She didn't recall when the last time she read that it was legal to post
signs in the window of their customers' bounced checks with very
derogatory remarks about them. This was the type of attitude this
gentleman displays. So he had never been very friendly toward them
either. Basically everyone they dealt within their neighboring
community including the owners of Indian Outpost and Heddy's
Hideaway, the restaurant that also shares their location, he happened
to be with them tonight and has supported everything they have done.
As a matter of fact, one of the letters in the commission's packet
addressed to the Community Planning Department was from Johnnie
Andreson. He lives directly across the street. His bedroom window
faces their restaurant and he states in his letter that he could not hear
their music. As a matter of fact, he was a very frequent patron. She
believed that Mr. Smith, in her opinion, was persuaded by some very
narrow minded individuals who didn't want to see another small
business succeed. Furthermore, the majority of the objections being
from the neighboring businesses who didn't even share the same hours
of operation when their performers were actually on the patio. If they
started at 5:00 p.m. or 6:00 p.m., these businesses were closed at
6:00 p.m. She asked how that affected their traffic flow. She said
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they occasionally had an evening event once a month or once every six
weeks and asked why they should be able to affect Gina's business so
that she couldn't have music every night because it affected their one
night, and it didn't. The other thing was that their events if anything
enhanced their events because they were attracting more business to
the area and more patrons to the center. At night if someone was
having an evening event, obviously if there were more cars in the
parking lot and most of these people had been dining and enjoying a
wonderful experience eating, they were the mood to shop afterward.
She didn't think that was a very valid complaint. Unfortunately they
had not had an opportunity to speak with the people who were voicing
the complaints and Kacoon's Oasis had never taken the position that
they would not be cooperative with their neighboring businesses. As
a matter of fact, Gina had spent quite a few dollars, which she could
prove to them from receipts, in all of their businesses. So it was quite
shocking to find out that it was actually them who were making all the
phone calls. They had more tables on the patio and that was the reason
it was very important that their music was outside versus inside. They
only seat 47 people inside and obviously from restaurant statistics as
.n well as other statistics from businesses here in the valley as well as
throughout California the first year was crucial for a new business. To
revoke her conditional use permit or in any way punish her would
directly have an adverse effect on her business and may end up forcing
her to close her doors.
MR. JAMES FRANK, 74-184 Catalina Way, stated that he was a new
resident to this area and he entertains over at Gina's. He was brand
new in town and thanked Gina for hiring him. Over the last 25 to 30
years he had played amplified music. He played with Chuck Barry and
The Kinks and The Small Faces and that was amplified music. He
played piano and he needed to bring his piano because it was electric,
so it was amplified and he had an amplifier. He kept it on the lowest
setting that he could. It was on one. Because of the way the area
was, the patrons were very close to him so there was no need for him
to get loud at this gig. He said that if the commission would like to
come and hear him play, to him it would be a good way to hear what
this issue was all about. Hear if it was too loud or not. He knew it
wasn't too loud. The atmosphere there, because it draws in people off
the street and there was a liveness about the club and he found that
pleasing and unique and he thought the commission should consider this
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issue. All he could say from past experience was that there wasn't loud
amplified music there. Most of the tunes were jazzy and kind of ballady
and the acts that he has seen there were very low key.
MS. TRACY RANDALL, the owner of Gifts from the Heart and The
Feathered Nest on El Paseo, thanked the commission in advance for
listening to her position regarding the request for amplified music on the
common area patio outside Kacoon Oasis. Last December they visited
this same subject and since then despite the ruling of the city council
that there be no amplified music outside of their unit and that all music
on the exterior during the designated evening hours be unamplified.
Kacoon Oasis has blatantly and casually ignored the rulings of this city
council. She had today submitted three such examples of their
violations. This had been a continuous and ongoing daily struggle since
the city gave their ruling in December. The effect of this noise pollution
had taken a tremendous financial toll on her business. The CD business
that she had been able to rely upon to pay her monthly rent had been
all but destroyed because her customers weren't given an option to hear
her music, finding it impossible to hear over Kacoon Oasis' amplified
music. She would imagine that even Kacoon Oasis would find it
objectionable if their customers were not given a choice and their
business was subjected to the amplified music of her choice. They all
worked very hard to create their own individual atmospheres within the
square footage that they lease. Approving a request for amplified
music in a common area would deny individual store owners the right
to control their interior environment. Even with her doors closed, just
seven feet away from where they play music, the sound permeates to
the point that her customers could not hear themselves speak. The
atmosphere of her store was not imposed upon any potential customer
unless they decide to step into the interior of her store. However,
Kacoon Oasis did not offer choice. Their amplified music was inflicted
upon people passing by, their retail neighbors and the residences behind
El Paseo without invitation or permission. Building goodwill meant more
than putting products in a window. It meant that her customers come
to be within an atmosphere of comfort that they have come to expect.
Her store offered air space filled with music that she not only sells in
the form of CDS but which creates the mood that encourages buying
and the enjoyment of the experience of shopping with her. As a
business woman concerned with protecting her investment and
continuing to build her success on El Paseo, she was concerned at the
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lack of obligation that Kacoon Oasis feels regarding the mandates of the
city council. Although they wanted Kacoon Oasis to succeed, their
success could not come at the expense of others. In the past they had
made it impossible to work with the spirit of community since they only
seemed to have their interests at heart as evidenced by them violating
the December 1999 city council mandate as often and casually as they
have. As a young business woman, she could not fathom the lack of
respect they have shown the city council and their fellow retailers. It
seemed as though they had no concern as to the consequences of
breaking the rules of their conditional use permit and despite lip service
to the contrary they had shown no concern as to the effect of their
music on the neighboring businesses. As merchants on El Paseo, they
pay three times the normal business license to be located on a
prestigious street in an upscale atmosphere. They did this gladly and
relied upon the City to protect the integrity of the El Paseo business
community by mandating and upholding rules that govern for the best
interest of all concerned. With this in mind, she respectfully requested
that Kacoon Oasis' application for electric and amplified music not be
granted and would even go so far as to suggest that their current
tam conditional use permit be revoked as a consequence to their blatant
violations of the policy set forth by this council eight months ago.
MR. MIKE KOOBA, a resident of 73-484 Shadow Mountain Drive in
Palm Desert, stated that he has lived here for 15 years in the El Paseo
Village Condominiums. He had seen the neighborhood change over the
years and was very happy and pleased with the changes. But he
wanted to reiterate that there were ten restaurants with patios within
a block of his house. At the present time some of them occasionally
had some music. He was not disgruntled about them entertaining, but
he felt that any kind of permit to one subjected the others to inquire and
request one for themselves. In this instance, he didn't see the point in
Palm Desert of ten restaurants having outside amplified music. They
do have concerts at The Garden on El Paseo on a regular basis. He was
aware of that sound and it didn't bother him. Of course, his neighbors
might feel otherwise. He was present speaking for himself. But his
neighbors did put together a letter and said they were against having
amplified music. He didn't know if they just reiterated that it wasn't
about Kacoon, it was about the ten restaurants. If the commission
wanted him to name them, he could.
tow
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F
MR. BRANDON WOOD addressed the commission and said he was a
food and beverage facility consultant throughout the Coachella Valley,
Los Angeles and Las Vegas. His business includes and primarily
involves consulting food and beverage facilities particularly with respect
to methods of increasing and enhancing business and business traffic
in this case. He said he would reiterate what Ric Mandelbaum said
earlier about how much noise was too much noise and what levels of
noise were allowed by the city. He said that Kacoon has worked very
hard in the past few years to develop a viable food and beverage
destination for the city of Palm Desert and for the Coachella Valley. A
large portion of Kacoon's business was obviously due to the element of
live entertainment for the city of Palm Desert, the El Paseo shopping
district, as well as the center they were located in and the other
businesses that have complained about this music. He stated that
Kacoon's Oasis had become a well-known destination throughout the
valley and enjoyed patrons from Palm Springs to Indian Wells as well as
many transient vacationers. Today's age of technology and advances
had afforded them all a very interesting and alternative method of doing
business and different businesses and careers and many alternative
methods of creating music and entertainment. Denying amplified music
for this facility was a very limiting restriction. He believed the issue at
hand was to amplify or not to amplify, a rather effective method to
reach a measurable and acceptable method of noise or music in this
case. He believed that the city has in fact determined an ordinance that
determined acceptable decibel levels for particular times of operations
of the day or night. He suspected that the nature of Kacoon's music,
and he had heard it a few times, likely did not violate the allowable
levels allowed by the city. By their comments earlier, they really didn't
know what those levels were at this point. However, he offered as a
resolution that the city measure the levels of the music at Kacoon's
Oasis on any given evening to determine in fact levels present and then
if a violation exists to those levels, require Kacoon's Oasis to reduce the
levels to comply based on technical data. He noted there were several
letters before the commission with complaints as to music levels.
Certainly they were sensitive to their comments and requests and they
were eager to work with any and all potential market places and looked
forward to working with the city Planning Staff to negotiate and strictly
comply with the acceptable levels of Kacoon's music. He therefore
encouraged the commission to approve the application for amplified
i
4
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music, whether it be electronic or not, provided future levels did not
exceed allowable levels currently set forth by the city.
Chairperson Beaty asked if the applicant wished to offer rebuttal comments.
Ms. Fullman said she just wanted to point out that Tracy testified that
her store was not open when they have their music. She was thinking
about last year before they had their alcohol license and they were
playing out in the patio in the daytime and she could understand why
that would bother her, but they weren't doing that any more and she
was closed at night when their music was happening, so it really
shouldn't be a problem.
Chairperson Beaty closed the public hearing and asked for commission
comments and/or action.
Commissioner Finerty said that she wholeheartedly concurred with the staff
report. Quite frankly she was very disappointed that Kacoon's blatantly
violated the approval given to them last year. It didn't seem to her that it was
taw an issue of decibels. The issue was the condition was non-amplified music,
period. The commission had a list of letters they received from businesses in
the area and from homeowner's associations and it was very clear that there
was a problem with the type of amplified music. It was not fair to subject all
of these other businesses and the homeowner's associations to this type of
music and to be a disturbance to them. She agreed with the gentleman that
asked what would happen if every restaurant wanted amplified music. It would
be chaotic. El Paseo has a certain ambience to it and her suggestion was that
if the applicant desired amplified music, then she invited the applicant to
relocate to another area because the use of amplified music was not conducive
with conducting business in the area, nor was it conducive with all the
residents in the area or the overall ambience of El Paseo. Having said that, she
was prepared to move with staff's recommendation.
Commissioner Campbell stated that she also has a business on El Paseo and
she was pro business. She didn't like to say anything against any business,
but as a Planning Commissioner, she played another role. They granted a
conditional use permit for non-amplified music. It was violated. Again, she
agreed that if all the other restaurants that had patios violated a CUP to have
amplified music, it would be as Commissioner Finerty stated, chaotic. She
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was against granting a permit for amplified music and concurred with staff's
recommendation to revoke the present conditional use permit condition.
Chairperson Beaty said he was in agreement with his fellow commissioners.
He was somewhat even further confused because they had an applicant who
has violated the conditional use permit and is now requesting permission to
continue the violation even though it had been objected to, opposed to and
complained about as evidenced by a memorandum from the Sheriff's
Department. Not only was he in agreement with his fellow commissioners to
deny the current application, he wanted to ask staff what had been or what
would be done if continued violations occur. He said that perhaps that was
a question for after the action was taken.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Campbell, second by Commissioner Finerty,
approving the findings as presented by staff. Motion carried 3-0.
It was moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner Finerty,
adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 2010, denying CUP 93-7
Amendment #2. Motion carried 3-0.
Chairperson Beaty said that his question to staff was, if the applicant
continues to violate her conditional use permit, what would happen. Mr. Drell
explained that basically they were revoking a portion of the conditional use
permit, which was the portion dealing with live entertainment. The next step
would be revoking the entire conditional use permit which was to operate as
a restaurant. An alternative would be to enforce the condition through a court
injunction. Upon questioning by Chairperson Beaty, Mr. Drell further explained
that there were two ways to come into conformance in any violation. Either
stop the behavior or get the approval modified to make the behavior legal.
That was what they were choosing to do. They were requesting
reconsideration of the previous denial which occurred back in December. They
had a process that allowed people to request amendments to previous
decisions and that was what they had done. Again, and counsel could add to
this, but the next step was to revoke the entire conditional use permit so that
they couldn't do business, period, or they could selectively through court
action force the compliance with a specific condition. Mr. Hargreaves
concurred that any violation of city codes could be addressed through code j
enforcement either civilly or criminally. There could be fines or court orders.
Generally speaking they could employ a progressive discipline where they send
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AUGUST 15, 2000
ir..
them a letter calling their attention to it threatening action. If they continue
then they would actually cite them and fine them. If they continued, the
conditional use permit could be revoked and/or bring civil action with contempt
kinds of penalties or criminal action. Commissioner Campbell wanted to clarify
that at this time they were just talking about revoking permission for outside
music. Mr. Hargreaves concurred that that was all they were talking about at
this time. Mr. Drell said the question was what if they continued to ignore
these actions and those were the remedies. Again, there were various actions
that could be pursued with the courts. Chairperson Beaty said that he had no
opposition to live music. He was very upset that they have an applicant who
has apparently flagrantly ignored conditions of the conditional use permit and
that upset him. It upset him even further that the city apparently did not do
anything about it. Mr. Drell said they notified the applicant of the violation.
The applicant felt that live music was necessary so Mr. Drell informed her that
she would have to live with the existing ruling or request that the ruling be
changed. That was the process they were going through now. They said they
couldn't live with that ruling and wanted it to be reconsidered. That was what
they asked for. Chairperson Beaty stated that he wasn't opposed to live
music. Mr. Smith clarified that the staff recommendation was to revoke the
too entertainment on the patio. Commissioner Finerty concurred and stated that
it was her understanding that there could be live entertainment inside, but that
because the rules were not followed, there would be no entertainment of any
kind outside. Mr. Drell said that as long as all three commissioners understood
that, that was the action. Mr. Hargreaves stated that was what was reflected
in the resolution from staff. Commissioner Campbell concurred and
Chairperson Beaty noted that was the resolution adopted by commission that
passed 3-0.
Mr. Drell informed the applicant and audience that decisions of the Planning
Commission were appealable to the City Council.
Mr. Wood spoke from the audience and requested clarification on the
action.
Mr. Drell explained that the ruling was that there would be no more outdoor
entertainment whatsoever. Commissioner Finerty said that was correct.
Chairperson Beaty pointed out that they could have live entertainment inside
the restaurant.
Mr. Wood said amplified or otherwise.
tow
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Mr. Drell said yes, as long as it didn't violate city noise levels.
E. Case Nos. ZOA 00-05, ZOA 00-07, ZOA 00-08 - CITY OF PALM
DESERT, Applicant
Request for recommendation of approval to City Council of three
zoning ordinance amendments: 1 ) Chapter 25.16.030(J) as it
relates to rental and leasing of single-family dwellings for less
than 30 days; 2) Chapter 25.16.090 as it relates to stealth
installation of telecommunication towers; and 3) Chapter
25.16.090(A) and adding ° as it relates to setbacks for garages
and carports in the R-1 District.
Mr. Smith explained that there were three separate proposed code
amendments. All three were recommended by Zoning Ordinance Review.
Relative to leasing of single family dwellings in the R-1 district, the code was
currently silent. Anyone wishing to rent or lease for less than 30 days would
have to come through a conditional use permit process so that the neighbors
would be aware of what was going on. Item two was relative to the
telecommunication towers. A revised Exhibit B was distributed to commission
which highlighted some language changes that he came up with in
communication with Commissioner Finerty today. He thought it made the
issue clearer for them and he suggested that if the commission acted on this
that they make those changes. Basically what they would be doing was
encouraging clustering of these tower elements if they were in a stealth mode
(i.e., that they look like palm trees). They were also lowering the maximum
height from 85 feet to 65 feet. Item three of this amendment was relative to
setbacks for garages and carports in the R-1 district. As indicated, in many
of the older communities of the city they did not have full two-car garages.
It was the stated goal of the city to provide covered parking in the residential
district. In order to encourage rehabilitation of older dwellings and make them
consistent with current codes, they would be lessening the burden by reducing
the proposed setback effectively on carport structures to 20 feet from the curb
rather than the current 32 feet. Side-in carports would have 16 feet and that
came out of some other language elsewhere in the code where if they had a
side-in situation they could go closer to the street. Approval under this would
go through Architectural Review Commission and would be subject to a notice
being sent to the 300-foot radius area and taking into account the opinion of
nearby property owners and property owner associations. With that, staff
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AUGUST 15, 2000
recommended that commission recommend approval of the proposals to city
council with the changes noted in the Exhibit B to the communication tower
and antenna ordinance.
Chairperson Beaty opened the public hearing and asked if anyone wished to
speak in FAVOR or OPPOSITION to the proposals. There was no one and the
public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Finerty said that she had one item for the commission to
consider. The current ordinance for the wireless communication tower allowed
them to go into open space. Recognizing the fact that there isn't much
property currently in Palm Desert zoned open space, she wondered if the other
commissioners would consider not allowing these towers in open space as she
believed that it was inconsistent with the concept of open space. Mr. Drell
asked why Commissioner Finerty felt this was not consistent with open space.
Commissioner Finerty said that if they were going to clutter open space with
wireless communication towers, she felt they would be negating the whole
concept of open space and it seemed to her that in the ordinance there were
several other areas that were zoned to allow these that made much greater
r.. sense than interfering with open space. She could also assure them that when
this was discussed at the Landscape Committee several months ago, this was
their basic feeling as well. Commissioner Campbell noted that open space
would have trees and shrubs. Mr. Drell asked if he could read the uses
currently allowed in the open space zone. Under conditional uses, and all
monopole type towers were conditional uses, cemeteries, communication
towers, educational research institutions, private recreational facilities,
recreational oriented restaurants, governmental public facilities, parks,
playgrounds, and lots of physical improvements were already permitted
through a conditional use process. He said that the discretion was still in the
commission's hands as to whether or not the waiver was granted and whether
it was appropriate. Commissioner Finerty said she understood that and was
referencing section 25.104.030 Permitted commercial communication towers
item B. It said that commercial communication towers and antennas may be
approved in any of the following zoned districts: C-1 general commercial, PC
planned commercial, SI service industrial, P public institutional, OS open
space, PI planned industrial. She felt that five of those were definitely
appropriately zoned districts but that open space was inconsistent with this
type of product.
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Chairperson Beaty asked if each individual case would come before the
commission for approval. Mr. Drell concurred. Commissioner Finerty said they
could, but the whole reason they asked for this ordinance to be reviewed was
to try and make it a little clearer to the applicants so that they knew what the
city was looking for and that would make it very clear that they could be 65
feet tall, they had to create a cluster effect, etc. Chairperson Beaty asked for
any other comments. Mr. Drell felt the result of it wasn't to create a cluster
effect. The result would be more widely dispersed towers. The original goal
when they didn't know they would be stealth would be to have fewer taller
facilities. Once they reduced the height of the facilities, clustering wasn't the
result. The result would be since the range of each tower was less, to have
more dispersed facilities, not clusters. Commissioner Finerty pointed out that
they weren't clustering the monopoles, they were clustering a monopole with
live trees. Mr. Drell concurred and said that open spaces were places where
live trees were most likely to exist. In golf courses and parks were probably
the greatest opportunities to put them where there is lots of vegetation. Open
space was one of those examples where they would have other trees. Since
the whole premise was for these things to look like other trees, they were ,
probably more compatible to parks and open space than to areas with
buildings. He said he wasn't sure why that would be less potentially desirable
than the other zones. Commissioner Finerty said that it was because in the
other areas it would be hidden away better. Chairperson Beaty said that he
could see Commissioner Finerty's point and somewhat agreed, but since the
requests would still come to the commission on an individual basis he wouldn't
have a problem judging them individually so he would be prepared to go with
staff's findings. Commissioner Campbell asked if that was a motion. He
concurred.
Action:
It was moved by Chairperson Beaty, seconded by Commissioner Campbell,
approving the findings as presented by staff. Motion carried 2-1
(Commissioner Finerty voted no).
It was moved by Chairperson Beaty, seconded by Commissioner Campbell,
adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 2011 , recommending to City
Council approval of ZOA 00-05, ZOA 00-07, and ZOA 00-08. Motion carried
2-1 (Commissioner Finerty voted no).
Mr. Drell noted that by handling the three different amendments
simultaneously, he wanted clarification as to Commissioner Finerty's position
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AUGUST 15, 2000
on the other two items. Commissioner Finerty stated that she wasn't opposed
to the other two amendments.
CHAIRPERSON BEATY CALLED FOR A THREE MINUTE RECESS AT 9:12 P.M. THE
MEETING WAS RECONVENED AND AT 9:15 P.M.
IX. MISCELLANEOUS
A. Presentation by Westfield Shopping Town Palm Desert of proposed
remodel plans. Opportunity for Planning Commission comments.
Mr. Drell explained that basically this project was before the commission about
a year ago and the commission approved a plan. At that time a lot of the
specific architectural details had not yet been resolved and therefore it was
requested that when they got those that they come back for review. He
stated that the plan before the commission was consistent with the approval
that was granted before and some of the most contentious items, which
included the 70-foot theater, was no longer part of the proposal. There was
an issue of what the theater would be and they would be coming back once
`. that was resolved. In fundamental respects, this plan was consistent in its
scope and basically the commission was now seeing the specific design
details. The result would be to forward the commission's comments and
recommendation to council who would also be reviewing these plans. Mr.
Drell noted that originally TrizecHahn had proposed stacked stadium seating
which was about 66 feet high. The applicant was no longer proposing to put
stacked theaters on top of each other. They might put some parking under the
theaters, but the height would probably now be less than 50 feet. In any
case, those design details for the theater and the whole theater deal had not
yet been worked out. Therefore, they were not showing the commission that
now. If and when the actual architecture for the theaters did come to them,
then it would be brought back. Commissioner Finerty asked if they were
waiting for that to come back to them before anything would proceed. Mr.
Drell said no. They would proceed with other aspects of the plan and the city
wanted them to do improvements on the rest of the mall as soon as they
could. Commissioner Finerty stated that she had been asked to inquire about
the bus shelter. Mr. Drell said that basically the applicant met with Sunline
and Councilman Kelly today and they were proceeding with the design for a
bus transfer station. Commissioner Finerty asked who would actually paid for
this. Mr. Drell said that the transfer station was work that was being done by
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the applicant and for the actual bus shelter it was his understanding that it
was a condition of the project.
MR. DAVE HOLKEN, Vice President of Development for Westfield
Corporation, Incorporated, at 11601 Wilshire Boulevard, addressed the
commission and said that they were providing the design in concert and
cooperation with Sunline and the City, but the actual construction itself
would be produced either by the City or Sunline, much as it was he
supposed for the transfer facility that was previously proposed for the
northerly sector of the site.
Commissioner Finerty asked if that was what was already approved. Mr. Drell
agreed that the applicant in the agreement was to set aside real estate. His
understanding was the improvement was to construct structures all along
Plaza Way and create turnouts. Typically the requirement for bus stops was
put on the applicant, but he would have to review the agreement.
Commissioner Finerty stated that she would appreciate it if he would do that.
Mr. Holken thanked the commission for the opportunity to present the
design for the exterior building as well as site expansion/renovation for
Westfield Shopping Town Palm Desert. They were actually celebrating
their one year anniversary of ownership of the Palm Desert Town Center
this week. He felt they had come a long way. In the last 365 days
they had taken a few steps back in terms of rethinking the expansion
plan for Palm Desert and he thought the product they had to present to
the commission today was substantially improved from where they
thought it was originally to where it is today. With that, he wanted to
introduce his development team, as well as operating team for the
Westfield Shopping Town Palm Desert. He introduced John Healy, the
Development Director, who would be responsible for the implementation
of the project and working on a day to day basis with city staff to
resolve any few remaining issues. Also present was Larry Moline, the
Landscape Architect. As was jokingly said at the July 25 Architectural
Review Committee meeting, Larry messed it up the first time some 25
years ago so they brought him back to fix it. Also present was the Vice
President of Design, Steve Dumas and then Rachel Stoffer the Project
Designer, both from Los Angeles. And then Bob Waller, their General
Manager for the Westfield Shopping Town Palm Desert and Robert
Pantinella, their Operations Manager. They were all present tonight '
excited about the project and were ready to address any concerns or
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f.w
comments the commission might have. He noted that they met in a
joint session between Planning Commission, Council and the
Architectural Review Committee July 13 and then on July 25 met for
conceptual design approval with the Architectural Review Committee.
They were very pleased in terms of the level of dialogue that went on
at the ARC meeting and he thought that the material that the
commission saw tonight and that was included in the commission
packets had been revised to reflect the comments from ARC. He said
he would provide a brief overview of the expansion renovation plan for
Palm Desert and then he would invite Steve Dumas to provide an
architectural presentation. He pointed out the location of the proposed
parking facilities, which would be all single levels, as well as the mall,
enclosed mall and shop related changes that would take place. He said
that Robinson's May was proposing a 54,000 square foot expansion at
the second level of the store which was the connection to grade to the
southerly Highway 1 1 1 part of the center. Upon the implementation of
that and the vacation of the existing Robinson's May south, the Sear's
Department Store would actually move into that particular location.
They were showing a 50,000 square foot expansion of the J.C.
Penney's store that would either be over one level or 30,000 over two.
The Macy's main store along Highway 1 1 1 would by and large remain
the same and then the Macy's Home was proposing a 22,000 square
foot expansion and that was currently permitted through the City of
Palm Desert. They were just waiting for them to give them an
indication as to when they would start construction. He said that with
respect to the enclosed mall, they would do a number of things. The
first and absolute foremost was to implement a remodel of the existing
common area. They had some design material for the commission to
see, but it wasn't part of their proposed presentation although they
could make it part of it. It included expanding the sky lighting within
the center to let more natural light in and they would actually modify a
large percentage of the ceilings and bulkheads in the common area,
increase the lighting, replace the handrails and all the flooring, and
overall he felt that would serve to complement the re-merchandising of
the center very smartly. At the same time in the existing open or
amphitheater area they were constructing a three level building
component. There was a lower level connection that today they have
designated as storage because they haven't found too many tenants
that want to sit in a hole, but at grade and connecting to the parking
area and Highway 111 would be the new 25,000 square foot Barnes
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and Noble store and that was a deal they haven't made a formal
announcement to the press about, but they were in tough lease
negotiations right there. At the top of that was a 20,000 square foot
component that was intended to be terraced dining, possibly two
restaurants at that upper level that would overlook Highway 1 1 1 and
the view of the mountains to the south. There also would be a large
terrace and with that they would be looking at remodeling the food
court in its entirety, removing the ice rink from the lower level, closing
that in with shops, remodeling the food court and filling in the holes and
then as part of that introducing the new access to the Resort Theaters,
whether it be the existing facility or what they hoped would be an
expanded facility which was somewhat detailed in the plans. They
would also introduce a large retail component as well as the Westfield
play land. The parking structure was originally a long and extended
parking structure which pretty much ran the full length of the side of
the center between the residential area and the shopping center itself.
This was a lower parking area than the south side which connected to
the second level. In there they were anticipating the addition of two
single level parking structures to help them meet the parking needs and
parking ratio of the site. In conjunction with that they would be
introducing a rework of the southerly parking lot to improve the overall
circulation through the parking area as well as increase the total parking
count. They had used that as a tool or means to justify the
relandscaping of that portion of the site that sits between the south
face and Highway 1 1 1 . They were very excited about that and it would
give them an opportunity to really reach out and touch the street, bring
some of the desert scape into the project and hopefully take the project
into this millennium. He introduced Steve Dumas, who would describe
the architectural material.
MR. STEVE DUMAS said that when they bought the property they
thought it had a dated look and was a little threadbare in a sense.
Leasing was having problems and all the energy had moved to El Paseo.
That was where people were going to dinner and to shop and that was
where leasing tenants wanted to be. They wanted to bring that kind of
ambience and that kind of feeling back to Palm Desert Town Center.
Then they evaluated the Hahn proposal. They felt it was a little over
done and not the ambience of El Paseo, but something grander and
bigger and more like Las Vegas. It was sort of a theme park kind of a
feel and they didn't feel that was appropriate for here. This was a more
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tow
sophisticated client. He said that they briefly looked at a sort of
Spanish architecture, desert architecture in terms of Moroccan, and
again they rejected that, feeling it was too themed and was more
amusement park or theme park than Palm Desert or the Coachella
Valley. What he wanted to do was present what they had come up
with. For inspiration they used the great modern architecture that had
been developed for the desert, Palm Springs and Palm Desert, the
Kaufman House and the work of Paul Frank. They wanted to look at
that, but humanize it as well. They wanted to introduce natural
materials to bring in the kind of feeling of desert colors and also modern
shapes instead of theme park shapes to fit the architecture of the city.
In terms of remodeling they were looking at two aspects. They were
looking at sort of theming two environments. One was the oasis and
the other was the sort of arid landscape. They were playing two
landscape themes against each other and they would do that inside the
interior as well. The courts would be one theme and the main mall
areas would be another. They were hoping at the entries to bring in the
character of the inside out to the three entry locations between the
department stores and would bring in natural materials, stone, trellis
elements, landscaping, nice paving, seating areas, outdoor seating for
restaurants, and try to capture the El Paseo feel. They were proposing
to create a restaurant terrace that would overlook the city, overlook the
mountains and it would have trellis elements, umbrellas and that
ambience and would have a nice glow at night from Highway 1 1 1 and
they thought it would be a sort of rich complement to El Paseo. The
other element they were adding to the exterior was the parking
structure. They originally thought they needed a two-level deck in the
back and had since reduced that to a single level deck. They were
proposing a sculpted form to make it a sort of step above a typical
parking garage. It would have sculpted precast panels with some color
to them. They were also proposing at the stair elements some stone or
precast stone elements. In addition they were adding some roof shade
canopies at the entry ways and at the stair tower, entry ways to the
department store entries, as well as the mall entries.
Commissioner Campbell asked if there would be any type of coverage on the
upper level, or any trellises.
Mr. Dumas said that they would just provide coverage at the entries and
no trellises.
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Mr. Drell said that was what they were proposing.
Mr. Dumas indicated that there would be some landscaping on the
parking garages as well to soften them. Basically what they were trying
to do was give new energy to the center and give it a fresh vitality and
he thought this would go a long way and the interior would radically
change from the way it is now and people would be excited to come
back to the mall.
MR. LARRY MOLINE, the landscape architect, addressed the
commission. He said that they would be installing more shade. He
thought they really failed the first time in that regard. The parking lot
would have trees every 45 feet through the lot and that was one tree
every five cars. He knew that was a little bit beyond the requirement
of one tree per every three cars, but he thought these trees should
become 35 feet in diameter, so they were really getting quite a bit of
coverage for that lot and that really only left about one parking stall that
wouldn't have coverage when the trees reached maturity. The shade
trees they were talking about were Chilean Mesquites and he
understood that they would have to be pruned twice. He said they had
Virginia Live Oaks on the frontage as well as Pines and they had done
well. They were planning on bringing the Live Oaks into the parking lot
and creating shade with those, but it was their understanding that in the
Spring there was a real problem with aphids and that caused sapping
onto parked cars. The Chilean Mesquite was felt to be the best
evergreen shade tree they could use, so they had no problem with
pruning them twice a year and providing root barriers at the curb for
those trees. The deciduous combination was the Chinese Pistache
which would give them great fall color and at the entry points they had
date palms. Those would be at entry points on Highway 1 1 1 , Monterey
and on Town Center Way. Another change was they added more shade
trees by reducing the amount of date palms they had at the entry
points. They would have a fairly broad planting of them at the main
entrance on Highway 1 1 1 to provide a view corridor into the restaurant
area and allow views of the south side of the structure. The entrance
aisles would be desert landscaping as well as the street frontage. The
turf was being removed and the Pines and Oaks would remain. The
Palo Verdes there now didn't look well but where they had good ones
they would probably leave them in the desert scape and only remove
those that had failed. He felt the plant variety would provide a very rich
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err
palette used in an open manor like Desert Willow where they got to see
the ground plain and the individual plants that have a dynamic impact.
He thought this would give the center a much more regional feel. The
planning code talked about diversity. They actually would have three
trees that were shade trees and the palm trees as a composition in the
parking lot. The third tree was the Palo Verde which they had in some
tightly planted islands which actually abutted the areas with the palm
trees and closed off those open spaces.
Commissioner Campbell stated that she would like Mr. Moline to look at four
trees in the parking lot of President's Plaza East that were planted a year and
a half ago and she couldn't recall what type they were, but she said they were
just planted there to try them in the desert and they grow beautifully, give lots
of shade and nothing happened to them in the heat and in the winter they
were just gorgeous. Mr. Drell said staff didn't know what type of tree they
were either. They were a substitution that staff had yet to identify or find a
source for. They were being called Rosewood, but when they looked at them
staff didn't believe they were Rosewood because Rosewood was a very slow
growing hard wood. It wasn't the tropical Rosewood. Chairperson Beaty
expressed surprise that the city arborist didn't know what kind they were. Mr.
Drell said that staff would try and identify them again. Commissioner Campbell
suggested calling Jerry Clark, the city's previous arborist. Mr. Drell noted that
the trees did immediately take off and they were apparently still doing well.
Commissioner Campbell agreed that they grew rapidly and they gave
wonderful shade. Everyone wanted to try and park under those. The other
types of trees in the parking lot were very stringy. Mr. Drell said that some of
them were Oaks, but staff would revisit that see if they could identify them.
Commissioner Campbell also indicated that they were a beautiful green color.
Mr. Drell concurred and said they were very shiny. Commissioner Campbell
said they were also a very clean tree.
MS. RACHEL STOFFER, the Project Designer, addressed the
commission to discuss signage. She referred to page S-1 of a booklet
given to commission in their packets. She said that the two existing
signs at the entries would be taken down and replaced with new
monument signs. All the other perimeter locations would also have new
monument signs. There would be a total of seven that they were
proposing. They were proposing to have two different heights of signs.
Some would be nine feet and the other six feet. She said that the
design was like taking a piece of their architecture and having a natural
r�
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i
stone look with their logo. It would be internally illuminated. The sign
would have frosted glass and there would be a soft light to add a little
extra to the monument sign than just having a plaque on a board. She
showed the design of the six-foot high sign and explained that it would
just basically take the same type of element but put in a slightly
different fashion. She stated that all the building signs would be
removed so they wouldn't have any of the large plaques on any of the
entry ways. They hadn't designed it yet, but planned to do some kind
of small ballard height sign marking the entry. It would be a tiny plaque
so that customers would know that was the entry into the mall itself to
distinguish it from the department store entries. By Barnes and Noble
there would be some signage for the two tenants on top. They would
basically have reverse channel letters lit from behind. The existing
Marie Calendar's sign would be relocated and revamped up a little bit.
If they added another tenant in that area, there might just be a tenant
name on top of their awning. She informed commission that they were
in the process of getting a design packet together.
Mr. Drell requested that when they designed their facade that they make sure
it could accept reverse channel letters without an external raceway and make
sure there was access. "r
Ms. Stoffer concurred and explained that they wouldn't actually be in
back of the building, they would be sitting on top of the canopy and
they had done that before.
Mr. Holken readdressed the commission. He said that this was not only
the opportunity for them to gain the commission's comments, their
insights, and input to the project, but was also an opportunity for them
to ask a favor of this commission, as well as the council and staff, etc.
When they looked at this renovation plan being proposed for Palm
Desert, they were really starting the pace for the project over the next
20-25 years. As they looked at a project, they not only looked at it as
to what they could do to it today, but what they would do to it five
years from now and what they would do ten years from now. The
planning components or new expansion components seen today, in
particular the parking structures, would be designed so that a further
expansion of the shopping center could occur without having to tear out
9/10 of the new improvements put in place. A lot of that went into
their thinking. When the commission looked at the project from
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Highway 1 1 1 , he thought they were introducing some very exciting,
very stylish architecture to approximately 20% of the facade that faced
Highway 1 1 1 . They have Robinson's May, Macy's and would have the
Sear's store, and the J.C. Penney's, three of which were planning to
expand their stores. Their assumption today was, and as they
continued to discuss those expansions with the department stores, was
that they would do something dynamic and substantial to the exterior
of their buildings. They would continue to push that. He respectfully
requested that staff and the commission and council continue to push
wherever they possibly could to get their best foot forward right along
with the mall's. They weren't suggesting that the department stores'
architecture should match theirs, but that they blend in. He thought
there was a lot to be said for their individualism, but there was an
appropriate design above and beyond where they were at today.
Honestly, with Robinson's May, with Sear's and with J.C. Penney's,
there was an immediate opportunity to get a bigger, better statement
for the Westfield Shopping Town Palm Desert. He thought perhaps the
biggest fish for them to fry was maybe Macy's, but he thought that
opportunity was out there somewhere. He said that would close his
comments and asked for any comments.
Commissioner Finerty noted that Mr. Holken alluded to terrace dining
restaurants overlooking Highway 1 1 1 and asked what his definition was of a
restaurant.
Mr. Holken said that a restaurant comes in a variety of packages. They
currently had Marie Calendar's and they also had a deal with a new
tenant, Onami which would be introduced. It wouldn't be at that upper
level, but they would like to go after a white linens tablecloth type
operation. Then again, they also wanted to hold themselves closer to
a family style approach to dining as well because they were purely a
family environment and they needed to maintain that.
Commissioner Finerty noted that he mentioned competing with El Paseo to a
certain extent so she assumed that there would be sit down restaurants where
you enter, are seated and handed a menu and servers bring the food to the
table, as opposed to any type of fast food.
Mr. Holken replied that he wouldn't say as opposed to, but it could very
well be a combination of the two. He clearly didn't see a McDonald's
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i
or Carl's or somethingto that extent at that upper level. The really
PP Y Y
needed a nice statement for their Highway 1 1 1 frontage and for the
entire project. Fast food operations for them were traditionally located
within food courts so that they had the critical mass and could feed off
one another for their offerings to the public.
Commissioner Finerty asked if they had considered the Claim Jumper chain at
all.
Mr. Holken said absolutely. He thought that would be a fantastic use.
Commissioner Finerty agreed.
Chairperson Beaty said that one of the interesting things about the center had
always been that as they drive past on Highway 1 1 1 , they really didn't get a
feeling for what was inside. From Highway 111 it only looked like a few
department stores. People just didn't have a clue to what was actually there
and asked if that was good or bad from the developer's perspective. He asked
if they were going to try and change that. He said it was appealing as a quiet
desert environment, but he didn't think it drew in the person who was looking
for a large shopping center.
Mr. Holken thought that was right. The Palm Desert Town Center was
living on its reputation and dying on its reputation at the same time. It's
presence from Highway 1 1 1 or from any adjacent street, be it Town
Center or Monterey was very poor. They wanted to improve upon that
quality and thought there was a lot of visual stimulation that could be
created and believed with the relandscaping program they wanted to get
aggressive with it but at the same time wanted to make sure they
established certain corridors that could be looked into from Highway
1 1 1 to the project so that they got a sense of something else other than
just a low profile office structure being there. That was one of the
elements they were attempting to work on.
Commissioner Campbell thought that all the different textures on the buildings
and the new facade would make it stand out more, in addition to the
landscaping. Right now all they could see was a gray parking lot. She noted
that Mr. Holken talked about the other department stores and asked him if he
would have input into what kind of facade they would use or if he would go
ahead and leave that to the Architectural Review Commission. Mr. Drell
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tam
thought their problem was that Macy's would not be expanding so they would
still have their existing facade. They were expanding on the back, but that
was adjacent to the parking structure and wouldn't be seen. The existing
Robinson's May would become a Sear's and the degree to which Sear's
proposed changes to the existing facade was discretionary to a certain degree
on their part. Typically when a new store moves into an old store they can't
legally be compelled to do anything but put up a new sign. He said that the
new Robinson's May expansion would be no problem. There they were
building a new building and the city has control and he assumed that they
were rational people and would want to get on board. The two most
significant areas were the existing Macy's facade and the existing Robinson's
May facade that was facing south and the Penney's facade in areas where
they wouldn't necessarily be doing any remodeling. Hopefully they were
dealing with rational retailers. Image was everything in retailing and they had
an opportunity to upgrade their image here. If they wanted to survive, they
would have to.
Mr. Holken concurred with Mr. Drell. They all needed to be on the sales
path to make sure they are doing anything and everything possible to
`,,, put their best foot forward not only in terms of the interior, but the
exterior. They would be singing that song perhaps louder than anyone
else, but they had their limitations just as he knew the city had their
limitations, but he thought there was strength in numbers. That was
simply what they were asking for.
Commissioner Campbell asked about the theater expansion. She asked how
they could proceed with the renovation if they didn't know what would be
happening with the theaters. She asked if that area was by itself and they
could work around it.
Mr. Holken said he thought that was what they intended to do. The
one thing they didn't want to do was hold the project hostage for lack
of any one player. The theater industry as a whole had gone through
a very dynamic and scary cycle over the last five years. The big
question with the theater providers or theater companies today was
liquidity--who is, who hasn't and who doesn't. They were very
cautious in terms of how they move into markets. They did have an
existing Resort Theater here that had a significant presence in the
desert communities. It wanted to make sure that it could maintain that
presence and as such was investigating all of its options. One of those
%1W
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options might be to not expand the Palm Desert facility. They were
doing all they could to get them back to the table and encourage them
to expand. He thought it was an important component but at the same
time it had to be done right. It had to make sense economically.
Commissioner Campbell asked if he thought they might pull out and not have
a theater there.
Mr. Holken didn't believe they would pull out. They had a significant
existing investment there. it wasn't state of the art and needed to be
state of the art in order for them to be recognized, but at the same time
they couldn't afford to pull out from the standpoint that they couldn't
afford to give up the location to potentially someone else. While he
wasn't saying they were going to make a deal or that they weren't
going to leave, they were doing all they could to keep them there
because he felt it was an important component to the project. But it
was also important that they move forward. And they were doing all
they could to put this project on track for mid February or the first of
March 2001 to start.
Chairperson Beaty said that in the past they had been accused of not being the
Planning Commission, but the "Parking Commission" and he was just handed
a note by the city's Traffic Engineer regarding parking. He didn't expect an
answer tonight, but wanted to bring it up. He asked what the net gain, if any,
in parking was being achieved. How many spaces were being lost from the
expansion and from structure remodeling and how many they were gaining.
He asked what the bottom line was. He asked if Mr. Holken was comfortable
with the parking and pointed out that it was in the mall's best interest to
provide plenty of parking.
Mr. Holken said they were very comfortable with the 4.5 parking ratio
which was where they were at today. They had been playing some
games in terms of trying to build more parking stalls at grade at a
significantly lesser cost than structured parking stalls. To a large extent
he thought they had been successful at that. They had been able to
transfer approximately 180 stalls off the deck and were putting them
on grade and weren't playing any games with stall size or configuration
to try and make better sense of the utilization of the site itself. Overall
they were very comfortable with the 4.5. They knew they had a
tremendous surplus in parking today, which was primarily that northerly
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sector of the site and as they went forward, they needed to look at
better ways from an operational standpoint as to how to make better
utilization of that parking out there so that their customers had the
preferred parking, which was within a 150- to 200-foot radius of the
perimeter of the building. That was an element they continued to work
on.
Chairperson Beaty informed Mr. Holken that this would be an item that the
commission would be very interested in when he came back to them with the
final numbers. He thanked everyone for their presentation and asked for any
other commission comments or questions.
Mr. Drell asked if the commission wished to make any general statements to
the council or endorse the direction or specifics or not. Commissioner Finerty
asked if this was coming back to the commission with a staff report. Mr. Drell
said no. Basically the commission was looking at it. Commissioner Finerty
noted that staff usually came back and said there should be "x" amount of
parking spaces. Mr. Drell said that the commission had already approved a
plan with a certain ratio of parking spaces to building and this plan was still
within those parameters. They talked about maintaining the existing ratio and
actually functionally improving it since there would be a greater proportion of
the spaces from the parking structure within proximity of the building than
currently exists. The physical parameters of the improvements were approved
and those continued to be consistent. What they didn't have were the
architectural details which they usually have with the full package.
Commissioner Finerty asked if it would just be moved onto the city council
now. Mr. Drell concurred. He noted that normally this all came in at once.
The design details were shown with the physical details and at the time due
to the various limitations and constraints on TrizecHahn when they went
through and their desire to get it done in that period of time, they were
separated. It just took a year to see the details because of what happened.
X. COMMITTEE MEETING UPDATES
A. ART IN PUBLIC PLACES - (No meeting)
B. CIVIC CENTER STEERING COMMITTEE - (No meeting)
C. DESERT WILLOW COMMITTEE - (No meeting)
D. LANDSCAPE COMMITTEE - (No meeting)
E. PROJECT AREA 4 COMMITTEE - (No meeting)
ii..
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F. PALM DESERT/RANCHO MIRAGE MONTEREY AVENUE CORRIDOR
PLANNING WORK GROUP - (No meeting)
G. ZONING ORDINANCE REVIEW COMMITTEE - (No meeting)
XI. COMMENTS
None.
XII. ADJOURNMENT
It was moved by Commissioner Finerty, seconded by Commissioner Campbell,
adjourning the meeting by minute motion. Motion carried 3-0. The meeting
was adjourned at 10:03 p.m.
PHILIP DRELL, Secretary
ATTEST:
12-
PAUL R. BEATY, Chairperson
Palm Desert Planning Commission
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