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HomeMy WebLinkAbout0116 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING TUESDAY - JANUARY 16, 2001 7:00 P.M. - CIVIC CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBER �.. 73-51 Q FRED WARING DRIVE � * �. .� .� * * �. * � � * � � * * * �. � * * * * * �. * � * * .� .� * * * �. * �. .� � * �. * � I. CALL TO ORDER Chairperson Beaty called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Chairperson Beaty led in the pledge of allegiance. III. ROLL CALL Members Present: Paul Beaty, Chairperson Sonia Campbell Cindy Finerty Sabby Jonathan Members Absent: Jim Lopez, Vice Chairpe�son v�.. Staff Present: Steve Smith, Planning Manager Bob Hargreaves, City Attorney Tonya Monroe, Administrative Secretary IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Consideration of the January 16, 2001 meeting minutes. Action: tt was moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner Jonathan, approving the January 16, 2001 meeting minutes. Motion carried 3-0-1 (Commissioner Finerty abstained). V. SUMMARY OF COUNCIL ACTION Mr. Smith summarized pertinent January 1 1 , 2001 City Council actions. VI. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS None. ir.. MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 ..r VII. CONSENT CALENDAR A. Case No. PMW 00-24 - SANBORN A/E FOR DONALD PECK, Applicant Request for approval of a parcel map waiver to merge two existing lots into one at 73-300 EI Paseo. B. Case No. PMW 00-28 - JFK MEMORIAL FOUNDATION, Applicant Request for approval of a parcel map waiver to merge two existing lots into one at 73-555 San Gorgonio Way. C. Case No. PMW 01-01 - LAKESIDE PROPERTIES, INC., Applicant Request for approval of a parcel map waiver to adjust a lot line to eliminate Lot B and provide for new alignment of Green Way and to Cook Street. Action: ' It was moved by Commissioner Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner Finerty, ,�,� approving the Consent Calendar by minute motion. Motion carried 4-0. VIII. PUBLIC HEARINGS Anyone who challenges any hearing matter in court may be limited to raising only those issues he or she or someone else raised at the public hearing described herein, or in written correspondence delivered to the Planning Commission at, or prior to, the public hearing. A. Case No. CUP 00-21 - JAMES AND CYNTHIA RITCHIE, Applicants Request for approval of a conditional use permit to allow short- term rental of a single family dwelling located at 73-015 Amber Street for periods of not less than one week, not to exceed 12 weeks total in any calendar year. � 2 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 �.. Mr. Smith noted that staff distributed to commission letters which were received after distribution of commission packets. The letters were from Robert Long received January 16 dated January 10; from Suzanne McBride dated June 2, 2000; from John Fentis dated January 12; and from Helen Nederhauser dated July 9 and July 20, 2000. Mr. Smith explained that the application was for a conditional use permit to allow the short-term rental of a single family dwelling located at 73-015 Amber Street for periods of not less than one week and not to exceed 12 weeks total in any calendar year. He noted that in December the commission approved a similar request on Sun Corral. Last summer the city amended the R-1 zoning code to take into account these short-term renta) situations. At this time the process was through the conditional use permit process to obtain approval for this type of use. For several years the applicants have rented out their home in the form . of short-te�m rentals. In order to continue to do this they require the approva{ of a CUP. In the packets the commission received copies of letters from the applicant outlining their criteria for renting to people. In order to approve the conditional use permit, Mr. Smith explained that each of the four findings had to be met which were outlined on page 2 of the staff report. In response to Item A, the property was currently zoned R-1 and the proposed use, while it �.., is a transient occupancy, the manner in which it would operate would be compatible with surrounding residential neighborhoods. In order to assure this, staff was suggesting a series of conditions outlined in the draft resolution. Specifically short-term rentals were being limited to no more than 12 weeks per year and limiting the minimum rental period to one week increments, limiting music and pool use from 10:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m., prohibiting parties with outside guests not listed in the rental agreement, and limiting occupancy to a maximum of eight persons with a maximum of three automobiles. These conditions were similar to those imposed on the Sun Corral request. With those conditions imposed, staff felt the four findings necessary for approval of the conditional use permit could be met. For CEQA purposes, the matter was a Class 3 categorical exemption and no further documentation was necessary. At the time of the writing of the staff report, staff had not received any response to the legal notice. Today he met with Ms. Suzanne McBride, a neighbor in the area, and at her request staff circulated the petition which was given to the city last summer. That was part of the paper work provided to the commission. Mr. Smith stated that there was another petition filed last summer which he was unable to put his hands on today, but it had fewer signatures and represented a smaller area. Last week Mr. Drell had a conversation with Ms. Mc6ride and he urged her to update the petition so that i�n. 3 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 's � � ,� ..r� it would be current. He understood that a new one might be submitted this evening. Without comment from the neighbors, he prepared the report based on the comments which they had made last summer in communications before Zoning Ordinance Review which he summarized on page 3 of the report under discussion. At that time they expressed concern with noisy tenants, parked vehicles, not knowing that these types of uses were being conducted in their neighborhood and they also expressed the need to protect property rights including the quiet enjoyment and preservation of value. With proper conditions and adherence to them by the applicant, staff felt this could be an acceptable use. Staff recommended in favor subject to the conditions, Commissioner Campbell asked who would enforce the conditions of the permit to make sure all the regulations were followed. Mr. Smith said it would ultimately be the applicant, but in reality probably the rental agent who is involved would be the one enforcing it. Failure to enforce it would ultimately result in the matter being referred back to commission for �ehearing if some problem could not be resolved and mitigated. Commissioner Campbell asked if that would only come from the complaints of the neighbors. Mr. Smith , confirmed it would be a result of neighborhood input, not the rental agent. � Staff would expect the rental agent to solve the problems and if she did not, ,�„� it would end up back here and the commission would have a wide latitude on how to handle that. Commissioner Finerty commented that condition number seven requiring that the rental agent's phone numbe� shall be on file so that staff could distribute it to interested neighbors would also help with problems. Chairperson Beaty opened the public hearing and asked if the applicant wished to address the commission. MR. JIM RITCHIE addressed the commission and explained that they have owned the property on Amber Street for over three years. The letter he sent out to his neighbors after this came up last summer detailed everything he felt was germane to this discussion. It explained that they purchased their home as a future retirement home and they still had a couple of kids in college and in order to defray some of their costs since they couldn't be full time residents and have their permanent residence in Washington, they decided to rent out their home on a part time basis, which they had done for three years. The majority of the rentals had been longer term, one, two and three month rentals, , but there were a lot of times during holiday periods when families came � � 4 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 +�.. down and couldn't get away longer than a week or two weeks so they come down and rent their place. It was a matter of their availability to be able to come down and get away from jobs, school and that sort of thing. He felt they provided a valuable service to people coming to the valley as they did years ago. They fell in love with it down here, wanted to find a place and ended up buying their place which they intend to retire to eventually. He felt they have operated very responsibly. The agent they use, Micki Jefferies, screened the people well, she takes identification, a substantial deposit and if there were any problems, and they only had one in three years where a couple broke the rules and their deposit was taken. It was a $500 or S700 deposit that was taken and they were asked to leave. He said that Micki Jefferies provides her telephone and beeper numbers which were given to the adjacent neighbors and he said he would be more than happy to give that number to anyone else. When there was a problem he felt it was handled by Micki Jefferies and she could be contacted and it would be taken care of. In his letter he said he detailed a couple of specific cases, one was with a dog barking and that was handled immediately; there was another problem with a pastor from Torrance who had six r.,., adopted children. The kids were playing out in the pool in the evening. Micki was contacted and she contacted the pastor and the kids were kept quiet and the problem was dealt with. He thought the important point to make was that they have tried to do everything they could to handle the needs and concerns of their neighbors. As another point, when they brought up the problem of doing the short term rentals, he said they haven't done any rentals from the time this was brought up last spring to now they haven't rented out their home at all because of the concerns he and Micki had and to try to make sure everything was taken care of before and handled through the city before they did anything to antagonize anyone. The rules were specified i� the report. He said they had no problem with any of those rules and they were strictly watched after and adhered to. They also had service people. They had a pool person that visited the house twice a week. They noted any problems and knew exactly how many people were supposed to be at the house. They were their eyes and ears and reported to Micki. They had a problem one time with a home invasion/yard invasion and evidently there were some kids, possibly from the neighborhood, that came in and were partying and using their pool area. The pool person came in and found cigarettes and beer cans in the pool. The � 5 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 � .r� pool person reported that to him. They had to tighten security and talked to the police. He felt they did have some eyes and ears there and hoped that if there was a problem, their neighbors would let them know and when they have, he felt they had been responsible and responsive to their problems. In terms of property values, Mike Hilgenberger from Remaxx of the Desert was going to be at the meeting, but he had another commitment, but he spoke to him about property values in their particular neighborhood and property values over the past two years had gone up substantially. He said he asked Mike about the effect of having rentals in the neighborhood and to quote him, he said that was what happened in the Coachella Valley. That was the nature of our community. The�e were people who come to the desert and spend time in the desert and end up buying and living in the desert. As far as this being a negative thing, Mike could see no negative aspects to it. If they were renting out to college kids for spring break parties, or something like that, yes, that would be a problem. They like this neighborhood very much and they have a substantial investment in this neighborhood and they weren't going to do anything to jeopardize their investment and didn't want to do anything to jeopardize the neighborhood. He � asked for any questions. � Commissioner Campbell asked how many homes in his neighborhood rented their homes out. Mr. Ritchie said he didn't have that information. He didn't go out and canvas the neighborhood to find out. He said that there were literally hundreds of homes that were rental properties. Micki Jefferies had a small operation with around 20-25. Commissioner Campbell said that she was just interested in this particular neighborhood. She noted that one condition of approval stated that tenants of the premises shall not have parties with outside guests not listed on the rental agreement. She asked if there were six or eight people living there and they asked people over, how many people constituted a party and what they would do if they wanted to have five or six people over. She asked if they would call Ms. Jefferies to tell her they were going to have a party and they would be put on the rental agreement. 6 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 �... Mr. Ritchie said that Micki is a bull dog with this stuff. She had a home she rented out, also. This was another thing where some people renting her home had a party on the 4th of July. Micki wasn't there and didn't know about it, but her gardener or pool person came by the next day and there were large trash bags full of bottles, etc., and it was obvious they had a party. Micki checked with the neighbors and it was confirmed and the people were ejected. Commissioner Campbell noted that it was after the fact. Mr. Ritchie concurred, but said that Micki was very straightforward with the rules and people pay a substantial deposit. He said they haven't had a problem like that. Chairperson Beaty asked if the deposit that was withheld was distributed to the neighbors who were offended by that action. Mr. Ritchie said no, it had nothing to do with the neighbors. It had to do with people who brought in a dog and they didn`t allow pets now. `r Chairperson Beaty said that the problem was that it caused a problem with the neighbors and asked if they were recompensed. Mr. Ritchie said no, the neighbors didn't even know about it as far as he knew. Their pool guy went into ihe yard and a large dog charged at him. He left and called Micki and she called the people and asked if they had a dog. That was what precipitated that. Commissioner Finerty noted ihat according to the house rules, Mr. Ritchie referred to the "attached CC&R's, HOA rules and regulations." She asked if the short term rentals were in compliance with the CC&R's. Mr. Ritchie said they weren't mentioned in the CC&R's. Commissioner Finerty asked for confirmation that there was no requirement in the CC&R's as to how short of a duration they could rent out their unit. Mr. Ritchie said no. i.. 7 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 :; � .� Commissioner Campbell asked if Mr. Ritchie paid bed tax. Mr. Ritchie said yes, Micki Jefferies handled that, but it was paid for anything less than 30 days. Commissioner Campbell asked if his home was inspected by the Health Department since it would be like a hotel, or inspected by the Fire Department like any business. Mr. Ritchie said that wasn't a requirement as far as he knew. Commissioner Campbell said that individual and private homes it wasn't, but if he was renting it out, it woutd be considered like a hotel. She said the fire marshal came in and inspected her business to tell them if anything was wrong or needed to be repaired. Mr. Ritchie said he didn't know if that was a requirement. He didn't think so. Commissioner Finerty asked Mr. Ritchie for the name of his homeowners � association. Mr. Ritchie said they didn't really have one. Commissioner Finerty questioned their not having a homeowners association but having CC&R's. Mr. Ritchie said he would have to look at the deed, but they didn't have a homeowners organization. In the older section, the first built section of Canyon Cove, he believed there was and that it involved the tennis courts. Commissioner Finerty asked for clarification on the house rules. When they referred to the "attached CC&R's" she asked what they were referring to. Mr. Ritchie said it was just a general statement, there were really no restrictions and the house rules were taken from a general form that Micki Jefferies uses for all of her rentals. When they came into this, � � 8 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 I�r they were new to this and made up their rules using the ones from Micki Jefferies. Chairperson Beaty asked if anyone wished to speak in FAVOR or OPPOSITION to the proposed. MR. ROBERT JONES, 72-995 Deergrass Drive, about 120 feet from said property. He said he received the notice of the public hearing dated January 3 and the issue of the conditional use permit of the R-1 dwelling at 73-013 Amber Street. He said that the essence of the whole thing that he believed their whole group was concerned about was the 30-day minimum rental reduced to one week. He thought that everyone within a radius of this place was well aware of the problems that brought up the issue in the first place. They more or less feel that the eight conditions to allow transient occupancy of the property is a situation that would be extremely difficult to adhere to. Usually renters especially for three or four days were there for a blast and didn't necessarily read the rules. They had been the recipients of the problems that have occurred as a result. He said that the evening that the rr.,► minister had his two wards in his pool was the loudest baptism they had ever heard, but they were certainly concerned in a positive way how this could be resolved. He said he was president of the homeowner's association of Canyon Cove Owners Association which was immediately adjacent to the northeast corner of where the Amber property was located. They had certainly heard the noise and traffic problems. They hadn't been as frequent recently, but their growing concern was the issue of permission for one week rentals. That could certainly encompass a long weekend and a long weekend for many people coming to the desert was to be relaxed and really let out with what they were trying to do to relax. He said he thought with those conditions difficult to enforce, it was hard to call a rental agent who often wasn't there even if she had a pager, but the rental agent could call and come down the next day. But there was a different set of people and they had often gone over and complained about the noise and people would tell them off because they were leaving the next day anyway. This kind of transient situation was what they didn't want to see coming into a prime R-1 neighborhood. The trend in Canyon Cove and with their CC&R's which limit rentals to a minimum of 30 days, was toward a closer neighborhood relationship. To see a transient �.. 9 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 , � � � situation right on their border and they certainly respected the right of anyone to rent their property, all ihey were complaining about was reducing the minimum 30-day rental rule in their area and in many prime areas to one week. He thought that regardless of how many rules and regs they tried to set up to cover the possibilities of problems with one week, it would be extremely difficult to look after them and police them. He thought that the basic objection of the people in both Canyon Cove Owners Association and the people who were adjacent to the property in question was the one week. They would like to see the minimum of 30 days adhered to and they had a petition and he was sorry there was no objection to this earlier, but they really came into this in an interesting way in getting the notice of January 3. He was kind of amused that Jim Ferguson got the same notice because he was within 200 feet and well knew the problems they have experienced. All they were saying tonight in bringing their group there to support the cause was they had a petition, one for 20 signatures and another with the signatures of the Board of Canyon Cove Owners Association, which totally endorsed keeping the 30-day minimum which was part of their CC&R's and certainly not wanting to see this pop up right on the � northeast corner of their prime location. He presented those and if ,J there were further things the commission wanted to hear, their whole crew was present. MR. LEROY BURGENER informed commission that he lives immediately in back of the subject property and he was the most effected besides the neighbor on the side of this property and they were strenuously objecting to the noise of the parties that go on. One instance that he could recall was when his wife called the rental agent, went to the back door and held up the phone so that she could hear it. Apparently right after that the rental agent called because immediately after that they could hear the phone ring next door. They strenuously objected to this. They have lived there almost 18 years now and it had been a very quiet, nice neighborhood and there had been no problem until this gentleman decided to rent it out on a vacation rental business. They knew vacation rentals--they were party people. They weren't down here and didn't care. If you go over to complain to them they say "up your nose with a rubber hose." They didn't like it. He said he is a musician and he was sure when Mr. Ritchie moves down here if he goes out into his backyard to practice his horn at 1 1 :00 p.m. he wouldn't like it either. ; � 10 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 � But what was he going to do. Call the city and complain? He thought that was a bunch of baloney and he said they strenuously objected to the short-term 3-day, weekly rental. They would go along with 30 days because that was more R-1 compatible. MRS. TALLIER, 72-910 Amber, said that her home was right down the street from the subject property. She said she has lived there about four years now and when she purchased her home she looked over the neighborhood thoroughly and thought it was a great neighborhood to move into. She occasionally walked, almost every evening, and knew her neighborhood like the back of her hand. She has three small boys and she occasionally walks late at night. She believed that the accusations being made were false. She had never heard any problems coming from this residence. She had seen a few of the renters that have gone into it and they had always been very humble. They have actually had more problems with neighbors that actually live there. There were two families that have teenagers and they were always having parties and if the police were called, it would most likely be on one particular home which was on the other side and very close to the �r,,,,, subject home with one home in between. They weren't part of a homeowner's association. On this part of Amber, this part was never included. It was more toward the tennis courts which she believed turned into Ambrosia. It went around a curve and then there was the tennis area. That part was never part of an agreement when they purchased that they had to have any bylaws or have any sort of rules and regulations. To address an issue raised by Mrs. Carnpbell about whether any other homes had been rented out, the answer was yes. Two homes down the street, on Amber to the far right. As of today they had been sold, but they were Mary Ann Lewis's listings with Remaxx and they had a hefty 52,400 a month rent. They were on the market for a lease and then they decided to sell. They did have homes from time to time that came up. If they couldn't sell them, they rent them or they lose a mortgage payment if they had to move away. They needed to make ends meet somehow. She stated that she had no problem with this home becoming a rental on a short term, long term, 12 month basis. She knew the family and they had always been very respectful. She had a conversation with the McBrides at some point because she received since she received a letter on her door indicating accusations and other things of that nature that they were unhappy �.. 11 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 about. After about 40 minutes of conversation, her feelings with the McBrides were that, if any of them had ever watched Bewitched there was a neighbor that always had to mettle and get into people's business and create problems. That was how she felt about Mrs. McBride. Nothing that came out of her mouth was pleasant. She even came to the point of "gays" and this property being rented to "gays." She didn't think their sexuality had anything to do with the rental, whether they are a gay couple or lesbians as she put it or a priest with adopted children that he was entertaining. She had no problem as long as they were being respectful and they were from what she had seen. She had never heard a party coming from that home. She had seen lights on but never heard any noise. Maybe in the pool, but she had three children. She asked if they could imagine what it would be like living next to her and what it would be like with three children and they were in their pool sometimes up to 10:00 p.m. in the summer months. Her neighbors didn't complain. The Cosgroves were to her far right and John Fenster who is a prosecutor in Los Angeles comes into town from time to time and he had no problem with this particular home being rented. She felt � sorry for the heartache that this particular family had to go through and � the embarrassrnent in having to have their laundry washed on the street. When they chose to buy a home in this neighborhood, they wanted to have a peaceful environment. They weren't looking for trouble. She felt that there were a few people that wanted to make more of an issue. MR. DONALD PIZZA, 161 Menil Place in Palm Desert in the Bighorn Golf Club section. He said that he was one of the enemy. He was a transient apparently because he was a renter of the Ritchie home and had done so for the last three years. He used it for his family when they came into town. There was no way they could get away for a month at a time. That was totally unrealistic. They do come and come " for a week. They brought his grandchildren with them and he was very supportive to what the Ritchies were doing and what they add to his lifestyle here in Palm Desert. He said that he could tell the commission as a renter that the rules were extremely strict and were very carefully followed. Even though he has been a multiple user, he had to play by the same rules and he was required to make sure his deposits were in, that his child�en and grandchildren adhe�e to the rules and he personally took that responsibility very seriously. When he first came to Palm 12 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 +�.. Desert, he was a renter and he became an advocate of the valley and of Palm Desert by having done this as a transient. He said the transients weren't necessarily evil. They could be a very important part of the future of this community. They had to play by the rules and understand the rules and they had to recognize the rights of the neighbors. But he felt they could do that and didn't see any reason they cou�dn't coexist. Chairperson Beaty asked if Mr. Pizza had rented less than 30 days. Mr. Pizza said yes. His family could only come in a week at a time. He personally had done it both ways. MR. JON MCBRIDE, 73-035 Amber, addressed the commission. He said that not all of the renters made noise, but some did. It had been a past problem and they didn't want to see it continue. When they first started renting, they tried to get along with them and overlooked a lot of things, but finally it just got too much of a nuisance. They called once and went over to talk. He just didn't want to see this keep �r happening. He wanted the commission to observe the 30-day limit. MR. DON PETERS, 73-010 Amber Street, said his property was across from the subject property. The traffic on short term rentals was an issue. There was one case where they said they rented it to four housewives, but there were eight cars there for an entire weekend. On other occasions there were five cars and that happened to be long term rentals. They didn't park in the garage but in the driveway and on the street. He didn't like that at all. MR. JOHN WASH, 73-050 Amber, which was across the street and one house down. He said he lived there one year anci bought his house from Michael Hifgenberg. Mr. Hilgenberg didn't tell him anything about having casual renters in the neighborhood. He bought the house because it was R-1 and because it was to be a quiet neighborhood. Shortly thereafter there was a big party across the street and there was a lot of noise and they just let it go. But this was a residential area, a lot of people live there and they didn't care if somebody wanted to rent it because they had to send their kids to college. That wasn't his problem. He wanted a quiet neighborhood to live in. He bought the�e �r.. 13 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 1 for a quiet neighborhood and then they found out somebody without any legal authorization was renting out the house across the street which created some problems. He didn't want to be a monitor of the neighborhood. He didn't want to have to monitor noise when they were woken up at night. That should be in areas where short term rentals were permitted and there was a security force that runs around checking everything out. He didn't want to have to call some agent because of a problem and stay up all night trying to find the agent. That was not why he bought there. Kids were kids, sure. But if they put them in a situation where they were there to have a good time, they would be kids and there was nothing they could do about it. He would not object to a 30-day rental. He himself had rented property. He has a condo he �ents and they took it out of the short-term rental property because it gets kicked apart and it was in an enclosed area. He wanted to say that short-term rentals were not why he bought here in the desert or that particular area. MS. MARILYN SHULER, 73--055 Amber, stated that she was two doors from the property. She said she is a licensed real estate broker, California licensed, and she has been in the business for over 20 years. She has sold many properties and dealt with a lot of rentals. They have in effect in California a seller disclosure form whereby a seller must present a buyer with all the negatives that pertain to a property when it was about to be sold. Their neighborhood, which was a quiet single family home, owner occupied neighborhood in general, had been disrupted by this. They have a lot of upset neighbors because of the noise and traffic and with the other conditions that have gone on with this house as a weekend rental. As they pointed out, people that come for vacation come when they want to enjoy themselves and they want to have a good time. They really didn't have any regard for the neighbors. They figure they're there for a couple of days and they would get over it when they leave. What that has done was create a lot of ungood feelings in their neighborhood toward Mr. and Mrs. Ritchie, which was unfortunate but true. If a seller in that property with the current conditions were to ignore the fact that they have a nuisance property with this condition and they didn't put this in a seller disclosure, and someone comes in and buys and is subject to a weekend rental with noise, traffic and all the rest of it, this buyer could , turn around and sue this seller. If they put it in the seller disclosure, 14 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 �.. and she has seen this many times where buyers go over those disclosure forms very carefully, point by point and she has seen pages of items by a buyer saying what they wanted corrected. But how would they correct this situation? They weren't. They were going to have a buyer say that they wanted to buy in this neighborhood because they thought it was a very quiet peaceful single family residence. They wouldn't buy there because they would be afraid that this particular house was going to create a situation that would devalue her property. This broker who sees no devaluing wasn't looking at this issue and she has seen this type of situation come up. She felt that allowing this condition to be approved would be very detrimental to their neighborhood. MRS. SUZANNE MCBRIDE said that she lives next door to the subject property. She and her husband were the only next door neighbors because the subject property is on a corner, so they with the Burgeners who live behind, get the brunt of whatever goes on. She wanted to clarify some of the things that were said previously. She stated that she is a licensed real estate broker for 20 years plus two years as a real `.. estate sales person before that. She has 22 years experience in property management. Mostly for themselves, but also some others including one vacation rental, which she wouldn't do again. When they moved here nine years ago she went around knocking on doors. R-1 was their prime residential designation, but did she want to listen to the sellers, or the seller ' agent, no. She knocked on doors and she found in Canyon Cove an owner occupied neighborhood. It didn't get any better than this. This was where she wanted to invest. This was where she wanted to live and Amber Street was only three blocks long. It was a wonderful area with one exception. That was a short term vacation rental. She was disappointed that the city decided to throw short term rentals into the conditional use permit because customarily conditional use permits were used for things like home occupations. Mr. Burgener to their rear has a home occupation. He didn't pay transient occupancy tax, but the short term rental does because it was lumped in with hotels and motels which is a commercial use. On that ground she felt it was completely incompatible. Three yea�s ago Micki Jefferies called her and assured her that this would be a temporary arrangement until the Ritchies chose to live here. At that time she chose to go along with it because she wanted to be a good neighbor �... 15 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 � and get along with her new neighbors. She goes over and picks up their yard after a wind storm. She picks up the throw away papers, she picks up the brochures that get stuck in their gate. That is what she calls a good neighbor. It did not become a short term arrangement. Three years and she had her last straw. Mrs. McBride said she didn't want to do this any more. Micki Jefferies did not give her the beeper number or her business card. Mrs. McBride said that she suspected that she was an illegal property manager. She has a sales license now, but she was still advertising illegally according to the file that she previewed today in the city. Mrs. McBride said she didn't want to deal with that woman. The commission heard some glowing reports about what a bull dog she is, but she has seen the other side. Mrs. McBride said she did talk with the lady who spoke earlier and thought she was outside the 300 feet. She asked if her testimony counted. Chairperson Beaty said certainly, that anyone was free to testify. Mrs. McBride stated that she never used the word gay, lesbian. They , do have CC&R's which say that people will not create a nuisance. Any buyer could tell the commission what a nuisance was and there was ,� testimony from a long term real estate broker. Their president couldn't tell them what it was, but any buyer could tell you. She stood before the commission to tell them that she would not compromise the integrity of the highest caliber of residentiat zoning that they have, R-1 , under any circumstances. She asked anyone in the audience who agreed with her to stand and be counted. There were 13 residents within the 300 feet who stood. MR. ED DUMEYER, 72-975 Amber, one house away from said residence. He said he has lived there 16 years and bought with the intention of staying there a year. He loved the neighborhood so much he spent a lot of money on his house. When his neighbor down the street who spoke earlier she was probably speaking about him and his son. They had a public nuisance going on there. He was in high school before going off to college. He went away for 45 minutes one day and when he came back there were 70 kids there and seven police. He had a word with his son and said that at least he was inviting the police every time. He said they got rid of that public nuisance and didn't think a they needed another one. There already have a public nuisance there 16 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 irr now and he asked why they would want to license it. His son lived there from three years until 18 and he went off to college. Now he was gone. His neighbor has three sons who might not be as bad as his son. But he certainly did not need people coming in on the weekend and bringing that type of thing in. He goes to the beach and rents a place at the beach every summer and he spends the weekend there. What happens during the week he didn't know, he wasn't there but it wasn't good. He was talking on behalf of himself because he knew what happened with his teenage kids and they were no angels and thankfully they were off to Cal Poly and were gone. But they certainly didn't need to license a public nuisance. The City of Palm Desert didn't need the tax dollars that bad to license that situation. He asked why they were licensing it in an upscale neighborhood. They couldn't have it in Bighorn, so why in their neighborhood. A good friend of his bought that house when it was brand new and she never would have sold it to them if that was going to be going on. They didn't buy short term rental property when they bought that property. He asked why they thought they should have it now. If they wanted it they should get the zone changed or go some place else. They live out of state and what did �,,, they need it for. They were going to have kids coming up in that neighborhood just like his and some of the other ones that would cause problems and they didn't need to import them. MR. DAVE SHULER, 73-055 Amber Street, two houses down from the Ritchies. He said they have been there since May and they had been looking at this area for several years and this was one of the nicer areas of Palm Desert. Every year they came out here they toured the area looking for a house and they found a beautiful house. But before they bought the house they went up and down the street talking to neighbors around them and it was a single family residences that were owner occupied. Everyone they talked to said it was owner occupied. That was the kind of neighborhood they wanted to move into. If he knew there was a short term rental two doors away, he certainly wouldn't have moved to this location. He certainly wouldn't have done that. His wife has been in real estate for many years and he has seen lots of deals fall through because of disclosing a nuisance on a real estate situation. So all of them, if they wanted to sell their properties tomorrow, they would have to disclose that they have a nuisance `.. 17 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 property next door or nearby them. He didn't want to have to disclose that if he ever wanted to sell his property in the future. MS. AYTOMI AYOKI, 72-990 Amber Street, which she said was kitty corner across from the house under discussion. They purchased the property in October but didn't fully move into it until December 1 so she wasn't aware of this situation. The previous owners might have received correspondence but she didn't know about it until last week. Not before they purchased it. She and her husband had been looking for a home in the desert for two and a half years. Fortunately they weren't in a situation where they had to get out of the house to get a new one so they took their time looking and looked from Palm Springs through La Quinta. They found this home on Amber Street and it was perfect for thern in every way including the fact that they thought it was a nice neighborhood to raise their children. She said they have a five year old son and a two year old daughter and she wanted to raise them in a nice neighborhood like where she and her husband grew up. She was a little disappointed that there would be transient occupants in their immediate community and right across the street from them. Her children's bedroom would be the closest to the house in question and she wasn't worried about the noise or the parties, it was just the fact that people who didn't really care about their house or the neighborhood would be just going in and out. Even if it was only for a 12 week period, it really bothered her. They have a rental home in Palm Desert Resort just off of Country Club and they rent out to various people, long term, short term, and even during the summer months and it was very difficult to control the type of people they got for rentals. Sometimes they were wonderful people and sometimes they weren't. They could do background checks and have them fill out application forms, but they never knew. This past year they weren't profiting as much as they used to because they were only renting to people who have previously rented from them and they liked or friends of friends and acquaintances. Previous to that they just did general advertising like on the internet or in the L.A. Times, they got wonderful people and people who weren't so wonderful. Fortunately in Palm Desert Resort they have a �eally good security system and security guards clamp down on any questionable activities right away. In Canyon Cove they didn't have that. Although the real estate agent might be wonderful, she couldn't arrive at a problematic situation as quickly as if they were 18 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 � right there like a security guard. She knew that the desert needed to offer more vacation rentals because so many people come to visit but there were other vacation rental options. Even during the season they were vacant and in her resort there were vacant signs everywhere. She didn't think it was imperative that one particular home in Canyon Cove effect a change in zoning regulations to support this one particular situation and she felt there were other options available. Chairperson Beaty asked if Mr. Ritchie would like to offer any final comments. Mr. Ritchie said it sounded like they had a saloon operation going on the corner of Amber Street and the first thing that came to his mind was that if they had been having all the problems or as many problems as indicated, then he would have seen it in the property and in damages that would have been done to their home, to their yard, to their pool and everything else and that had just not been the case. He provided the commission with tenant profiles of the tenants they have had over the past three years. They had a lot of repeat tenants. They were professional people and families. They don't rent out to young kids. ,�,,,, They don't rent out to college parties. They rented to responsible families and couples that were coming to the desert. They haven't seen the kinds of problems that he heard about tonight. He would say that he has heard of less than seven complaints that Micki has had that there had been problems at the house. They just haven't heard about it. He talked to the McBrides and the Burgeners when he first moved in and told them what their intentions were and what they intended to do. He gave them his card and if there was a problem, to let him know. He did not hear about it. For weekend rentals, over a three-year period they did seven long weekends and that was all. There were only eight weekly rentals that were done during that period of time. During the season there were normally people in the house. Off season it was vacant and filling in the vacant time during summer and off season was very helpful to them. The commission had a list of tenants and profiles they had. The severity of the problem he hadn't seen or heard about. When this all came to a head last spring, he came down and flew down here specifically to talk with Jon and his wife to see if they could work out some of the problems. He felt he was extremely responsive. The one problem they had with a barking dog--he said no more pets and he really felt they had been responsive to their neighbors when he heard � 19 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 about something and didn't see that volume of complaints. Before they bought the home there were two teenage kids and two wiener dogs that lived there that barked all the time. At least they did when he was there. They barked all the time. He didn't know what it was like living next to that, but he would think that would create a lot more heartburn for neighbors than people coming in like he had with his people. As far as defining this as a nuisance property, if they were going to say it was a nuisance property, they would have to define nuisance. Saying a buyer knows what a nuisance is, there had to be something a little more specific then that. There was a lot of reference to them doing weekend rentals. That wasn't what they were going to do. The proposal was to do no less than a week rental. There wouldn't be weekend rentals and that was part of the rules. He said they did do a lot of repeat rentals for people like Mr. Pizza whose family had been with them for three years and who were good people. That was really what he had to say. He hadn't heard a hue and cry up until this point and he thought the fact that a notice went out to everyone and he wrote letters to everyone in the neighborhood and he appreciated the folks that came tonight to express their concerns, but there were a lot of people that we�e not present and he thought that before he wrote his letter to the neighbors „r� that there were more concerns brought up. He thought after he wrote his letter a lot of fears had been allayed. Chairperson Beaty closed the public hearing and asked for commission comments. Commissioner Finerty stated that she lives in a homeowners association where they also had timeshare and timeshare guests usually came for a week. She was acquainted with people who came to vacation for a week and have fun for a week, as different from the full-time residents. She knew what kinds of problems could exist. She didn't believe that short term rentals were compatible with the R-1 zone. She felt that they needed to maintain the integrity of their neighborhood. As an example, their CC&R's for their homes they had a minimum of 30 day rentals and a lot of homeowners associations do impose that in their CC&R's and that was for good reason and it was to protect the integrity of the neighborhood so that it is quiet. A lot of people value their quiet time and therefore she was opposed to the proposal. ; � � 20 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 i�r Commissioner Campbell stated that she concurred with Commissioner Finerty. She herself would not like to live in an area where a next door neighbor rented out for a week. Her question before was how many other leases in the neighborhood were able to lease their home and that did not mean for a long term period it meant for a week at a time. They could live in a neighborhood of 27 homes and every other one could be leasing their homes out for a week at a time and she didn't feel they should be watch dogs for their neighbors to see what is going on. As far as that party was concerned, that's fine as long as she knows her neighbor is having a party and there were many cars around and noise, but she knew they belonged there so that wasn't a problem, but to have transient people come in their neighborhood and just be there for a short period of time, they would do whatever they wanted to do even though the home wasn't ransacked or whatever, it was still the noise factor that she would object to and have just transient people in her neighborhood. She was also opposed. Commissioner Jonathan said that to him this was kind of a tough one. He had been on the fence all night long. He was really sympathetic to the concerns and objections by the neighbors. Very candidly he said that like them, he lives ;,.,,, in a residential neighborhood, on the other side of Haystack, and he would very much dislike short term rentals on his street or any where in his neighborhood so he totally sympathized with that. But the reason he had been tremendously undecided was because the code was amended recently. The code has always said that over 30 days you could rent your house. Rece�tly the code was amended to say that short term rentals would be allowed for seven days. The reason he was equivocating was that it seemed to him that the applicant had largely complied with the amended code and they have a responsibility. If the law says a certain thing and a person does it within the context of the amended code, then they have a right. He wasn't taking away from the fact that the neighbors didn't like it. As he said, he wouldn't like it either. But they had to recognize that there was a rule on the books and that largely the applicant had complied. Furthermore, there were mitigating measures within the conditional use permit that says certain things had to be done or the conditional use permit gets revoked. Looking at it objectively he was also sympathetic to the applicant. He thought that what they had here was a bad amendment and didn't think the city should have amended the code to allow short term rentals in the R-1 zone. He knew that most of the people in the audience largely agreed and urged them to write a letter or appear at a council meeting and let the council know that they didn't like this amendment r.. 21 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 � rrr� to the code. He might do the same because he thought it made no sense. They all came to live in a quiet residential area, hopefully more so with owners than renters, much less short term renters. One of the findings that had to be made to allow the conditional use permit was that issuing the permit would not be detrimental to the public health, safety, welfare or be material injurious to properties or improvements in the vicinity. He thought that based on testimony heard today it would appear that this particular application was not able to meet that particular finding in his opinion. On that bases he would not be in favor of issuing the conditional use permit. Chairperson Beaty said that it was important that they realize that they were dealing with a conditional use permit. Each request was handled on a case by case basis. They had a similar case a couple of months ago and he believed it was the first one he has had to deal within his seven years tenure here. He really wasn't in favor of short term rentals, and it was obvious his fellow commissioners agreed. But the testimony they heard from the neighborhood in that particular case was positive and they allowed it. This was not the case this evening. They heard almost nothing but negative comments. He stated that he was opposed to this particular conditional use permit. He called for a motion. Commissioner Finerty asked if there was a resolution before them. Mr. Smith said no, commission would need to direct staff to prepare one. Commissioner Finerty said she would do so based on not meeting Finding B as noted by Commissioner Jonathan. Action: It was moved by Commissioner Finerty, seconded by Commissioner Campbell, directing staff by minute motion to prepare a resolution of denial for adoption at the next meeting on February 6, 2001 . Motion carried 4-0. IX. MISCELLANEOUS None. , 22 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 �.r X. COMMITTEE MEETING UPDATES A. ART IN PUBLIC PLACES - 1December 20, 2000) Commissioner Campbell indicated that they reviewed the Peace Memorial site landscape design concept here at city hall. They also reviewed the Monterey median landscape design. The consensus of the commission was that the Monterey median have open landscaping with native palm trees and a 32" pedestal base for the artwork that would be placed there. That way if there were any accidents, they wouldn't hit the artwork. The base structure would be left up to the artist as to colors, etc. B. CIVIC CENTER STEERING COMMITTEE - (No meeting) C. DESERT WILLOW COMMITTEE - (No meeting) D. LANDSCAPE COMMITTEE - (January 16, 2001) �,.. Commissioner Finerty said they also reviewed the Peace Memorial and decided to add the White Peace Rose. The rest was informational. E. PROJECT AREA 4 COMMITTEE - (No meeting) F. PALM DESERT/RANCHO MIRAGE MONTEREY AVENUE CORRIDOR PLANNING WORK GROUP - (No meeting) G. ZONING ORDINANCE REVIEW COMMITTEE - (No meeting) XI. COMMENTS 1 . Commissioner Jonathan asked about the last satellite palm tree and if ii ever went up. Commissioner Finerty said it was up and looked nice. It was in Palm Desert Country Club near the new rose garden. Commissioner Campbell asked about the one at Palms to Pines East. Mr. Smith said it hadn't happened yet. Commissioner Campbell asked if they would be waiting until the project developed. Mr. Smith said there was an interesting s+tuation with that project. At the west end where they initially approved Rite Aid and then for Staples, he had 1rr 23 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 , working drawings for both sitting in his office and he couldn't take them to Architectural Review for final working drawings until the property owner told him which one it would be. They weren't going to approve both sets of plans. 2. Commissione� Jonathan said that if they had a consensus, he would like to urge the City Council to maybe have ZORC review or re-review the amendment to the R-1 ordinance allowing short term rentals because he was increasingly suspicious that maybe it was an inappropriate amendment. Mr. Smith said he didn't think it needed to be referred to council, it could just be �eferred directly to ZORC for their comments. If there was a consensus along those lines he would like to do that. He wasn't saying at this time to do away with it necessarily but he wanted them to rethink it and come back with their comments. Commissioner Campbell noted they had a lot of neighbors against it, but as Chairperson Beaty stated, they review them on a case by case basis. It depended upon who was out there. Commissioner Finerty said that the lady right next door at the last meeting was in favor. But in concept � a seven-day rental was just not good in R-1 . Commissioner Jonathan said he wasn't sure where he stood. He wasn't ready to say that they should eliminate it, but it was worth readdressing because even if they had somewhere they were in favor of it he wasn't sure that short term rental of residential property was necessarily desirable, period. Commissioner Finerty said that was what she was saying. The concept would not protect the integrity of the R-1 zone. It wasn't what most people living in R-1 zone were looking for. There might be exceptions and perhaps their first encounter was an exception. She would be inclined to go along with Commissioner Jonathan to take a look at it. Commissioner Campbell didn't think that ZORC considered that one home might be rented for one week at a time and then two doors down another home could be rented. She said they didn't discuss how many could go ahead and do that. Mr. Smith said that he would like the City Attorney to take a look at that because part of the reason they went with what they did was that they looked at outright prohibition. They were in a situation where the existing code did not regulate it, period, and it had been going on. They knew that. Outright prohibition was a concern to the City Attorney so they chose "Avenue B" which was where they were at right now. Commissioner Finerty said that a 30-day , minimum was common place in most association CC&R's. So those 24 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JANUARY 16, 2001 +�.. attorneys for HOA's must feel that if defendable. Commissioner Jonathan thought perhaps 30 days were adequate. Mr. Hargreaves said that it was different in an HOA situation because that was an agreement among property owners. Commissioner Jonathan asked if 30 days was adequate for short term rentals. Mr. Hargreaves said he hasn't looked at the issue. Mr. Erwin apparently addressed it the last time it came up. He thought that arguably it was more of a commercial kind of use in a residential neighborhood. If it had a histo�y of causing problems, he didn't see any insurmountable problems to eliminating it. He said the city has never shied away from adopting laws it felt were appropriate, notwithstanding the fact that it could be challenged at some point. If there was a strong feeling that this was not appropriate in residential neighborhoods in Palm Desert, they could certainly defend it. Commissioner Finerty stated that she didn't think this was the direction she wanted our city to go. Commissioner Jonathan said he was starting to feel that way. Mr. Smith said that staff would take it back to ZORC. r... 3. Chairperson Beaty announced that this was his last meeting and he thanked city staff and the commission. Commission thanked Chairperson Beaty for his service and told him how much they would miss him. It was noted that the election of officers would be placed on the next agenda. XII. ADJOURNMENT It was moved by Commissioner Finerty, seconded by Commissioner Campbell, adjourning the meeting by minute motion. Motion carried 4-0. The meeting was adjourned at 8:20 p.m. ����, STEPHEN R. SMITH, Acting Secretary ATTE T: JAME EZ, Vice Chai rson Palm e ert Planning Co m ssion �.. 25