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HomeMy WebLinkAbout0916 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION TUESDAY - SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I. CALL TO ORDER Chairperson Campbell called the meeting to order at 6:02 p.m. II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Chairperson Campbell led in the pledge of allegiance. III. ROLL CALL Members Present: Sonia Campbell, Chairperson Sabby Jonathan, Vice Chairperson Jim Lopez %W Dave Tschopp Members Absent: Cindy Finerty Staff Present: Phil Drell, Director of Community Development Bob Hargreaves, City Attorney Steve Smith, Planning Manager Tony Bagato, Assistant Planner Mark Diercks, Transportation Engineer Tonya Monroe, Administrative Secretary IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Consideration of the August 19, 2003 meeting minutes. Action: It was moved by Commissioner Lopez, seconded by Commissioner Tschopp, approving the August 19, 2003 minutes. Motion carried 4-0. V. SUMMARY OF COUNCIL ACTION %NW Mr. Drell summarized pertinent September 11, 2003 City Council actions. MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 VI. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS None. VII. CONSENT CALENDAR A. Case No. PMW 03-11 - DARWIN ALBERT DEASON, Applicant Request for approval of a parcel map waiver to merge Lots 74 and 75 of Tract 25296-1 to accommodate construction of a larger home in the Canyons at Bighorn. Chairperson Campbell indicated that the applicant requested that the item be removed from the agenda and placed on the next agenda on October 7, 2003. Action: No action. Vlll. PUBLIC HEARINGS Anyone who challenges any hearing matter in court may be limited to raising only those issues he, she or someone else raised at the public hearing described herein, or in written correspondence delivered to the Planning Commission at, or prior to, the public hearing. A. Case No. GPA 01-04 - CITY OF PALM DESERT, Applicant Request for consideration of a Comprehensive General Plan Update. Mr. Drell said he would give a short introduction of how they got to this point and then John Criste, the Planning Consultant from Terra Nova, would be proceeding with the presentation. Oil MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 w► At the end of 1999, beginning of 2000, there was a suggestion by a council man that they update the general plan. The last general plan was originally drafted in the year 1980, although it had been amended many times and some specific plans had been done for more detailed analysis of certain areas in the city, the fundamental text still dated back to 1980. He said it fundamentally described a city that no longer existed. Most of the programs in the general plan they had succeeded in implementing, and Palm Desert became the world class resort destination they set out to be in 1980. When it was first suggested that they do a new general plan, his first reaction was, "What's the point?" They looked out and saw a fundamentally vacant area built out from the mountains to Frank Sinatra Drive and it was pretty much anticipated that they would build a couple more country clubs in that vacant area and then there was commercial/ industrial development along the freeway and then they were done. Why go through the mental gymnastics that went into putting a plan like this together when development in the rest of the city was pretty much a foregone conclusion? They eventually admitted it was something they had to do. The City Council put together a hand selected group of local Palm Desert prominent citizens to sit on a General Plan Advisory Committee to be the co-authors of the plan along with city staff and the consultant. The General Plan was made up of a bunch of elements, some which dealt with land use, transportation and parks. Most of the General Plan had elements which dealt with more mundane, but still interesting and important, elements of city policy relative to development of resources, use of resources, environmental hazards, and administration. He said as they got into their second hearing on October 7, they would discover that the GPAC, whenever someone looks at something fresh or with new eyes, they see something they didn't expect. In this case in looking at the vacant area north of Frank Sinatra, they saw different things. One was the new Cal State University campus and the fact that while they were always thinking about that vast open desert that seemed to go on forever when driving north to I- 10, suddenly they realized that we are running up to 1-10. There isn't really that much real estate left before they run into 1-10, which still pretty much dictated commercial/industrial development. Then there was the novel idea of if they should try to balance the commercial development and the university with the appropriate residential land uses to 3 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 try to address the housing needs of those major new sorts of land uses they really hadn't considered before as all that important. The result was some interesting, exciting new ideas. Which when talking about land use they would get into. Those ideas centered around shifting the focus for the city development in the last stage from what had been a resort oriented land use to permanent resident to address the housing needs. He said it turned out as they did the analysis that there were very significant housing needs being generated by the commercial and industrial development on 1-10 and the university, both as an educational institutional in terms of students and as a business in that a state university in itself would be the single biggest business in the valley, the biggest single employer. In terms of payroll, probably the biggest single payroll in the valley. He said there are whole communities around the world that exist just because of their proximity to a university. That really shaped a lot of the discussion. Mr. Drell stated that the other interesting thing about general plans is that they both force the City and give the opportunity to look into the future. While Planning Commission was mainly looking at a development today and how it would be developed in the next six months and their focus was a year or two years at the most or typically even less than that. It was very microscopic in terms of the perception of the future of the city. They look at it in one little increment and one lot developed at a time. What the general plan required the City to do was look 20 years into the future and not simply make decisions of what they think is the most obvious solution given today's market conditions. It forced the city to look at what requirements would be, what needs would be, 20 years from now and try to figure out a way to come up with programs and policies that were still reasonably responsive to the decisions they had to make two weeks from now, but would also provide guidance for how they wanted to end up when done. The challenge, especially here, was that they were dealing with driving uses, meaning the university which they knew would be 20 years from now, but they also knew it was going to take time to get there. It wasn't like approving the mall. They knew the mall was going to get built in 18 months. It was built and was moving. It was the nature of state universities to evolve very slowly. They eventually become the elephant in the china shop, but they started as a baby elephant and very slowly grew. The trick was how to come up with an ultimate urban design for the area around the university which provided property owners with reasonable use of their property in the near 4 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 term, but still guided them in such a way that when all the opportunities of the university and all that commercial manifested itself, which could take a long time, they would have an end result which worked. The goal tonight was to try to deal with the non-development oriented elements. If they could get through all of those tonight, on October 7 they could focus on the more typical ones the commission was familiar with which included land use. And by then they should have more information from the EIR on the circulation model, and Parks and Recreation and Open Space and those sorts of things which were normally the purview of the commission. He said unless there were questions specifically about the process, he would turn it over to Mr. Criste. Commissioner Jonathan commented that he wanted to make it clear to those in attendance that it was their intention to end the meeting at 9:00 p.m. and then continue it to the next meeting on October 7, so if anyone didn't have an opportunity to be heard, they would have another opportunity. He said they agreed as a commission to keep meeting until everyone had an two opportunity to be heard and the commission had an opportunity to have their discussion. Procedurally, he understood that they as a commission would be reviewing the Draft Comprehensive General Plan document, listening to input, having discussion and then they would make a recommendation to City Council to spring board their discussion of the matter. Mr. Drell said that was correct. He noted that there was a secondary complication, which was the EIR that had been delayed relative to this document and ultimately they would have to review that document as well and how they timed that review with the main document would be complicated. But there, the EIR's most significant impact would be in the areas of land use and circulation. Commissioner Jonathan asked what the time of expectation was for it. (Mr. Criste spoke from the audience and said that the EIR went to the State Clearinghouse that day so the 45-day comment period would start tomorrow. He said that copies would be delivered to the City the next day.) Mr. Drell said they would be able to begin weaving that information in, especially from the results of the traffic model, at the next meeting. But they wouldn't be a position to act on it until the comment period was up. r. 5 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 He said that after the meeting he wanted to talk to the commission about some complexities that would come into play at the next meeting relative to certain regular items that would be on the agenda and how they wanted to deal with that since they hadn't been advertised yet. To a certain degree, it might be determined by how much progress the commission made today as to how the commission wanted to divide up the time for the next meeting. Commissioner Tschopp asked if there would be time tonight for public input and comment. Mr. Drell said yes. His suggestion was for them to go through an element, open the public hearing for comment on each element as they complete each element discussion. He thought that was the simplest for people so that they could react immediately to a particular subject. Unless there were other suggestions. Corns-nissioner Jonathan was wondering if Mr. Criste wanted to go through the entire presentation and then go back and look at it element by element. Chairperson Campbell thought it would be fresher in people's minds to do it element by element. Commissioner Tschopp noted that there were numerous individuals in the audience who have questions, comments and / or concerns about specific pieces of land and if he read the staff report correctly, the commission would not be getting into that until the next meeting. Mr. Drell said that if they wanted to make their comments now, maybe they could wait until the end and hopefully have a comment period at the end of today's meeting. Commissioner Jonathan asked how long the presentation was from Mr. Criste. Mr. Criste said that the elements they were going to be talking about were more informational in nature and didn't lend themselves to a lot of discussion or debate, so they could move relatively quickly through them. It wasn't their intent to go through each and every policy and program, he didn't think that was necessary. So he thought in an hour and a half they could go through the elements as well as have time for comments. He didn't expect a lot of comment from the public on these matters because they would cover environmental resources and environmental hazards. He thought perhaps public services and facilities would prompt more comment than the others. Commissioner Jonathan said he thought that the public might benefit from hearing Mr. Criste's presentation and if he could keep that to an hour or hour 6 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 %W and 15 minutes, then they would still have time to open it up to the public. He thought the public would benefit as much as the commission would before getting into discussion. Chairperson Campbell thought they should go element by element and let people speak and ask questions while it was fresh in their minds. If they finished all of the elements for this evening and had an hour and a half left over, all the people here for the land use could go ahead and speak and give their recommendations but with the knowledge that it would be covered at the next meeting and they could attend the next meeting or the commission would have heard their comments this evening. Commissioner Lopez agreed with the process of going through the elements and giving the public the opportunity to comment on those particular elements. He asked if Mr. Criste would give a general overview first or go straight to the elements. MR. JOHN CRISTE, Terra Nova Planning & Research in Palm Springs, said he would give a very brief general overview so they could see how they approached putting it together. For well over two years they had been working with the City staff hand in glove and the General Plan Advisory Committee to prepare the document. They initiated the work by employing a team of consultants, archaeologists, biologists, traffic engineers, air quality specialists, noise specialists, and preparing background information and conducting technical studies of different areas. Then they prepared elements for the General Plan and as the staff report pointed out, they had essentially five core chapters in the General Plan: Community Development, Environmental Resources, Environmental Hazards, Public Services and Facilities, and Administration. He said there was also an introduction to the General Plan which was a useful overview of the plan. Tonight they were going to focus on the Environmental Resources, Environmental Hazards and Public Services and Facilities. They would go through them element by element in the order in the General Plan. He said they would start on page IV-1. He said they had their archeologist conduct a very thorough literature search and do what they sometimes called a windshield survey, but an extensive survey of records from the City and other sources. They looked at the cultural resources that occurred in the city that were both prehistoric and resources that he called the European settlement of the Coachella Valley and the Palm Desert area. The element 7 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 provided background discussion in that regard to the prehistoric first and focused primarily on the Cahuilla Indian tribes that have been here for at least 2,000 or 3,000 years. They talked about that culture and its role in the Coachella Valley prior to and after European settlement. Other areas they focused on had to do with major kinds of activities that were historically significant to the development of the region. That included the building of the railroad in the 1850's, the building of the Colorado River aqueduct in the earlier part of the 20th century, as well as other kinds of development and settlement of the core part of the city itself. When that occurred, major routes like Highway 111 which dated back to an old Indian trail called the Maricopa Trail which later became the Bradshaw Trail, was very important to folks trying to get out to the gold mines along the Colorado River. So our history wasn't really a matter of when the first houses were built on Highway 111, but the history followed the American Indian use of the region. They tried to show that there is a connectivity between prehistory and what they have in the 21 st Century now occurring in the Palm Desert area Will and the Coachella Valley overall. They talked about the prehistoric period, the historic period and right into the 20th century including the major transportation including the ocean to ocean highway that was on the north side of the planning area which was replaced by Interstate 10. In the last part they talked about the founding of the city and how some of the most important early development occurred in the 1940's right around and after World War II and some of their founding fathers, including the Hendersons and other folks involved in the development of the early community. The element then briefly summarized the sensitivity maps that are included in the General Plan. They were meant to alert staff and the general public to areas where the likelihood of encountering either prehistoric or historic resources occurred. For the sake of protecting those resources, they had not mapped them explicitly, they were available to staff and experts, but they were used primarily to help developers know that they might be encountering resources in the course of developing a given site. 8 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 The element included a discussion of historic preservation programs including federal and city programs. He noted that the City has been very actively engaged in what they sometimes referred to as Arts and Culture, but the historic preservation of the community. The next part was a discussion of future directions and how they were going to continue to grow the city or redevelop the city and what kinds of issues needed to be kept in mind when those activities were taking place. Then there were goals, policies and programs beginning on page IV- 12. The primary goal of the whole exercise was the documentation, maintenance, preservation and enhancement of archaeological and historic sites, artifacts, traditions and other elements of the city's cultural heritage. He noted that the General Plan Advisory Committee (GPAC) reviewed these in detail and they also reviewed this with one of the other city's commissions and this was the product of several reviews and taw discussions. He asked for any questions regarding the Archaeological and Cultural Resources Element. Commissioner Lopez said he found the history fascinating. He asked if they should have a motion of acceptance or how they wanted to proceed. Mr. Criste said they should give the public an opportunity to speak. Chairperson Campbell opened the public hearing and asked for any comments. She noted that she had some Request to Speak cards and asked if Mr. Patrick Pratt was interested in speaking regarding this element. He said no. Chairperson Campbell asked if Mr. Tom Noble was interested in speaking on this element. He also said no. There were no public comments on this element. Mr. Criste explained that the next element in that chapter was Biological Resources. He noted that Palm Desert has been a leader in resolving the conflicts that sometimes arise between urban development and protection of biological resources. Their consultants in this case were Dr. Lawrence Lepre and his team who had almost 30 years of experience in the Coachella Valley. They had a very ... thorough assessment conducted and also benefited from a lot of work 9 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 ..ri that had been going on over the last few years in the development of the Coachella Valley Multiple Species Habitat Conservation Plan which was very near completion. They hoped to see it available for public review in the next few weeks to a month. In that discussion he said they spoke in detail trying to give the city officials and staff a good background on the environmental setting, the biological resources that occur in the Coachella Valley and in the planning area and why they were important and what to look out for in different areas. They spoke to issues like the desert biome and the relationship of clients to habitat, how topography shaped the kinds of habitats we have and the effects they have on the kinds of wildlife that exist in these areas. They discussed the natural communities including the sand fields. On display was an exhibit, one of the many included in the element. It showed the distribution of certain wildlife species in the southern portion of the planning area. It showed the occurrence of bighorn sheep. So they could see that Peninsular Bighorn Sheep were a major biological resource that Palm Desert and other cities in the cove communities especially have had to work around, manage and try not to impact significantly. Another was the Coachella Valley Fringe-Toed Lizard which extended from the Whitewater River north into the other sand fields. But they also talked about other areas like the alluvial fans that wash out of the mountains and the sandy washes. Part of the planning area north of 1-10 also included palm oases that were created by the diking of ground water where the faults prevented ground water from migrating and created a whole unique habitat there, the California fan palm community. He said they added some graphics to enhance the reader's appreciation forthe biological resources in the community. They could see the mapping of the various resources that were based upon original research they conducted, as well as research by those preparing the multi species habitat plan. He pointed out the comprehensive listing of resources including their status. He explained that both the state and federal governments have endangered species acts and many of the species were classified as threatened and endangered species. 10 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 They also spoke to the relationship of urbanization to biological resources and the impacts that occur, the lizard and the sheep probably being the most well known in terms of potential conflicts that arise. Then the element spoke to the future direction to take and recommended for future councils and planning commissions to take in terms of protecting these resources for future generations. The next portion was the goals. The protection and preservation of the planning area and regional biological resources including rare, threatened and endangered. Also to cultivate a pattern of community development that comprised both a functional and harmonious relationship with nature and the built environment. He said they would see throughout the General Plan the philosophic perspective that sensitive development could occur in a fashion that did not have to degrade the environment or preclude the persistence of sensitive biological resources. Also, that these biological resources are capital resources. Some cities like Rancho Mirage adopted the bighorn as their icon and a lot of folks were attracted to the region because of the `A" wild lands and the resources we have. So both in this element and elsewhere in the General Plan they could see those policies and programs reflecting that philosophy. He asked for any questions. As they looked at the goals and subsequent policies and programs, Commissioner Lopez noted that there was a lot of action that was outlined to be taken by staff and by the City. He asked if Mr. Criste had incorporated a time line for them or how they were to progress on those particular items. Mr. Criste explained that each of the programs had a schedule to them. Some of them were ongoing types of activities where staff would take an application across the counter and would be implementing them just in the course of doing project processing. Others had to do with the City's participation in regional government where CVAG is taking a lead, such as the institution of the multiple species plan. He stated that Palm Desert has been a leader in things like resolving the conflicts between trail use and bighorn habitat. He asked if Mr. Drell would like to speak to that question as well. 11 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 Mr. Drell asked if he had a specific question relative to trail use, design or recreation. Commissioner Lopez said no. As an example, he read the part where it said that the City would coordinate with local research institutions and conservancy groups and that was part of one program. He asked if that was something that was currently being done or would be initiated. Mr. Drell said that was something they already do on an ongoing basis. Commissioner Lopez asked for and received confirmation that a lot of the parts of these programs were currently under way. Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to speak regarding this element. There was no one. Commissioner Jonathan asked if within the areas remaining to be developed within the city borders, if there were any significant areas that would be prevented from development due to environmental or ecological concerns. Mr. Criste said no. Most of the resources of concern where there were a lands available for development were primarily north of Interstate 10. i Even the Crest project which the commission approved earlier this year, although it occurred within designated habitat for the bighorn, they were able to put together a mitigation program that addressed the concerns of the resource agencies. That was pretty much the extent of what was still available for development in that area. North of 1-10 they have the sand habitats that are very sensitive and a key part of the Multi Species Plan. There were also other activities which would probably preclude development in a lot of that area such as flood control and expansion of the preserve. Those sorts of things. But south of Interstate 10, no. He noted that the Multi Species Plan was evaluating an alternative that would look at the preservation of sand dune habitat south of 1-10, but it was an alternative for the sake of review far from the preferred alternative. With regard to the areas north of 1-10 and the potential annexation or expansion of city lines to that area, Commissioner Jonathan asked if that was addressed in the report or considered in the analysis. Mr. Criste asked if he meant from a biological resources point of view. 12 ._..___........ ..... . . MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 Commissioner Jonathan said yes, in addition to the overall General Plan. Mr. Criste said yes, it was considered. Mr. Drell indicated that it was a problem that the County ran into extensively in the County General Plan because where most of the multiple species preserves are located is a very delicate problem to reconcile land use regulations on private property relative to preserves in terms of how they were designated. The solution in the County General Plan was basically to have an overlay, but all County lands and private property were designated a use. Then there were the discussions of the future of preserves and the multi species plan was a layer above, but not necessarily in contact with the layer below mainly for the very problem of confronting the issue of taking someone's private property and saying it's going to be preserve for the milk vetch. It would be an ongoing negotiation with property owners as to how to implement these biological preserves. Starting on page IV-38 of the General Plan, Mr. Criste said this was taw a very key element, the Water Resources Element. Over the years they have done a lot of work with and for the Coachella Valley Water District, which adopted a water management plan for a management area in which Palm Desert is located and served. They spent a lot of time with district staff going over this and with others. He pointed out the standard discussion of background information was next and it talked about the water basins that serve the planning area. It was primarily the Whitewater sub basin where the potable water was that serves the city and the planning area. In the north end there is the Desert Hot Springs sub area north of the faults. He said the faults in that area enhanced the amount of mineral deposits in those waters, so water north of the San Andreas fault zone was generally not potable. Folks in the Sky Valley portion of the planning area had to have water brought in south of the fault and generally south of Desert Hot Springs where CVWD had well fields and brought the water over. He said that Palm Desert is centrally located right over the prime location of the Whitewater sub basin which is a very large aquifer, high quality water and was also downstream of the recharge facilities that were constructed 25 years ago or more by CVWD between 1-10 and Highway 111 as they are leaving the valley. 13 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 They discussed that in the element and the other sub basins that occur in the area including the Mission Creek sub basin and the Thousand Palms sub area. They provided data on the approximate water and storage in those areas. Then they discussed demand for ground water and the condition of the sub basin in terms of its over draft status. He noted that there is an annual overdraft. That meant that the amount of water brought out of the basin was greater then the amount of water going into the basin. That had two effects he said were important. The first was that it reduced the net amount of water at least in the first 1,000 feet of water bearing material. That effect was as they lower the water table, they increase energy costs associated with drawing the water up from a lower level. The other, which had really become better understood only in the last five to ten years was that it wasn't really intuitive, but the soils have been deposited here over millions of years and the water bearing materials were miles thick in some parts of the Coachella Valley. If they looked at the soil column, it was made up of not only particles but water molecules as well. When they remove the water from pumping it out, they leave spaces where water used to be and the overburden of the soils and rock on top of that start to compress the water bearing soils. The effects were twofold. One is that compression is a permanent effect so the "sponge" is permanently compressed to some degree and its ability to store water was effected by this draw down. The other is the changed surface elevation by virtue of this in some places and they have subsidence. They identified subsidence in a couple of locations in the valley, including along Monterey Avenue and the Monterey Country Club area, but also in La Quinta and elsewhere. It was becoming a much more broad problem. He said they talked about that in greater length in the Geotechnical Element. He said they have quite a discussion about fresh water and storage, the rate of overdraft as it was calculated just a couple of years ago. He stated that the method of how to calculate overdraft was changing 14 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 yet again and they would probably need to revisit this issue in a few years and suggest some minor modifications to the element. In the element they talked about the replenishment program and the use of the Whitewater basins to recharge the ground water. Mr. Criste indicated that water came from the Colorado River from the Parker area. Then they also had water resources that were now trying to be brought to the valley through the quantification agreement which was part of the deal between IID and San Diego for some of the agriculture water to go to urban uses and we would gain another 100,000 acre feet which would benefit primarily the lower valley, but would have an indirect effect on Palm Desert as well. The Byzantine water agreements dating back to the early part of the 20th Century were discussed briefly and probably had something to do with the difficulty they've had in working out the final agreement on the quantification deal. He said another important thing that happened in the last 10 to 15 years was the Coachella Valley Water tow District especially, but also Desert Water, who have been leaders in the use of tertiary treated water. That was water that has gone through a third stage of treatment. He noted that Palm Desert has been a leader in the use of tertiary treated water for golf courses and those kinds of uses where it was permitted. He thought they would probably see an expansion of that. The Water District intended to continue to expand the use of tertiary treated water. Water quality issues were discussed in the element and some of the sources of various water and their quality, as was water regulation. New programs were in effect for the last 10 years or so about controlling urban runoff from parking lots and improved areas where they could scrub those before they had a chance to percolate into the groundwater. The next part was on the water conservation program. Mr. Criste noted that Palm Desert has been a leader in, especially in municipal landscaping and in other areas to enhance wise water use and try to get more out of each drop of our precious ground water. 15 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 He said that was really where the future direction issues were in the element. Participating with regional government and with the Water District directly to be sure we have water for future generations in the valley and in the community. The primary goal was a dependable supply of safe, high quality domestic water to meet the needs of all segments of the community. Then they had a series of policies and programs to achieve that goal. He asked for any questions. Commissioner Tschopp said that given we have a small impact on air and water quality here, what we get is from people down valley from us and up valley who have a bigger impact. He asked what Mr. Criste would surmise would be the effect on us and on the implementation of this plan from water and air quality. On the city of Palm Desert, Mr. Criste said it would be a cumulative effect. He noted that golf course users demanded quite a bit of water, so they had an opportunity to have a significant cumulative effect on the amount of water. The issue of subsidence was a relatively local issue. When they pump water, generally they are pumping water from within the planning area or within the vicinity in order to serve the city's needs. When they pump water from the ground water, it created a cone of depression which was an inverted cone. So as they go down toward the bottom they got closer to where water was coming into the well casing. Up toward the top they have a spread. This area where they have this spread out of the water table is where they could have subsidence occur. So if for no other reason than to protect our ability to store water in our portion of the aquifer and also to address the subsidence issue, that was a direct positive effect from conservation. Mr. Drell said that currently some 70% of the water used in the Coachella Valley is used in either landscaping or agriculture. Even when the agriculture goes away, he thought that number was very similar for the whole Southern California region in completely developed areas. When they think of water, they think of drinking and flushing toilets. Those things were relatively minor. Water directly consumed by human beings was not the primary source of the overdraft. He noted that Mr. Criste mentioned two impacts of overdraft which 16 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 are compression and subsidence. The more long-term significant impact was running out of water. Having no more water left. He stated that the water in the aquifer was basically prehistoric. It is the remains of a huge lake that filled this valley 1,000 years ago. Because of climate change that occurred 700-800 years ago, all the surface water evaporated and disappeared and they were still dealing with the lake that is still left underground. Under natural conditions, based on our use of the water, there was not really a significant amount of new water going into the basin. Therefore, in the future if there isn't a likelihood of a climate change, they would start to get water back in. So we are mining no different from a coal mine or gold mine. Eventually if they mine it and don't figure out a way to put water back or at least keep it at a stable level, they would mine out the resource and it will be gone and it would not be able to be replenished. That was one of the fundamental issues in resource conservation. While there might be technological fixes in the future to get more energy from the sun and everywhere else, in most cases most of the aquifers that serve most of the and west is this prehistoric water that was left over from a period 1,000 years ago when it was a lot wetter. We have been living on it and the biggest hazard of living on it and not figuring out a way to conserve it, it would be gone. He didn't think anyone had considered how or even thought about what we will do when it is gone. He said we are on the consumption side. On the local level we regulate consumption by our policies, whether they be landscaping or land use. He said the demand for housing was kind of related to other things. As we economically develop, people would come here to live. They had to live somewhere. Very simply, the more landscaping they had to maintain, whether it was drought tolerant or not, the more water consumption per household occurs with the substantial portion of that watering the ground and the bougainvillea, the mesquites, olive trees or orange trees. So that ended up relating to land use and the efficiency of how we allocate and conserve all the resources in the valley as growth occurs to make sure that growth is balanced with the resources we have, whether it's the road system, or the air, or the amount of water. Eventually, since we regulate consumption in the city, how we organize our activities has a direct bearing on whether that aquifer goes empty or not. 17 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 Commissioner Jonathan said that what Mr. Drell was telling them, and he concurred, is that there is a finite supply of water. What Mr. Criste was telling them is that we are in an annual deficit mode, an over draft, so we are depleting that finite limit annually. He said there might be other sources in addition to replenishment of the aquifer such as drawing through agreements with other agencies and getting water from elsewhere, but it seemed like some of that was a stop gap so that eventually we would run out. He said they got a taste of that this last summer when some golf courses were not supplied water and they had to go to other sources or cut back. We have experienced water rationing in various communities including ours, so we have gotten a taste of that. His question to him was if any community, including Palm Desert, ever looked at what that finite supply is and said we can't develop any more because we don't have water to supply to this community, or more sanely, we need to develop in a certain direction because if we develop in this other direction, we will run out in 10 years, 20 years or sometime because we simply don't have enough to accommodate Type A development so they needed to go in the direction of Type B. He asked if any communities had ever gone through that process and if Palm Desert would do so now or in the future. Mr. Criste said the answer to both questions was yes. Although they were somewhat advantaged, the city of Santa Barbara is a good example. They had draconian measures which were essentially for growth control because they didn't want to participate in the state water project. They did that purposefully. They felt this was a way of controlling the quality of life in the community and not allow sprawl to continue. He said there have been communities, primarily in the Midwest, that were no more almost because agriculture had drained the ground water resource so thoroughly. He noted this wasn't an uncommon predicament. History showed over a millennium that Rome and lots of other cities that tapped ground water were effectively able to bring about their own demise or certainly the shrinkage of their size by virtue of that. Commissioner Jonathan noted that some were not by choice. Mr. Criste agreed some weren't by choice. 18 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 Commissioner Jonathan said that for a lack of planning, these cities, whether it was Rome or cities in the Midwest, they met their demise not by choice, but because of a lack of planning. Mr. Criste concurred. He said that the water management plan that CVWD has developed had what he thought were modest goals in terms of conservation. As Mr. Drell pointed out, the use of non human consumption of water was the lion's share of the consumption of potable water in our region. Another is that there is a direct relationship between residential density and the per capita use of water. Apartment complexes with higher density were substantially more efficient on a per capita basis then single family homes of 8,000 to 10,000 square foot lots. Commissioner Jonathan asked if that was because of the landscaping. Mr. Criste said it was because of landscaping, swimming pools, sometimes larger family size, but it was primarily a function of landscaping and those kinds of non consumptive uses. Commissioner Jonathan asked how that compared to commercial development. Mr. Criste said that commercial development was a relatively modest user. It depended on the type. Restaurants were higher, but if they thought about a retail center, there wasn't a lot of water consumption other than for landscaping, restrooms and maintenance primarily. There was a land use component to it, but there was also having one's cake and eating it too. That was where they sometimes looked at these as problems rather than opportunities. A parallel is they look at energy as though there is an energy problem. We don't have an energy problem, we have an energy opportunity. For instance, if they were to take the opportunity to conserve energy with the available technology, the amount of jobs and domestic economic, real economic production that could result from that was stupendous as opposed to exporting dollars to buy petroleum. The same sort of thing would happen in the Coachella Valley and elsewhere as water conservation technology becomes more integral to development as it has already to agriculture. Whole businesses have been 19 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 revolutionized because they brought domestic technology to the same level of production, but with a tremendous savings and water use. Commissioner Jonathan asked if the Draft General Plan, or if Mr. Criste's analysis determined whether we are at a point where we need to take draconian measures like the City of Santa Barbara and say we have to stop development now or in the next ten years because we're going to run out of water. Or if it at a minimum looked at the water depletion, the over draft, and say this is a more effective way to proceed with developing the currently undeveloped portions of the city in terms of the water usage. Mr. Criste thought it was the latter. Commissioner Jonathan asked if the plan looked at that and if they would be hearing about that. Mr. Criste said that the plan very much directed them to participate i with our other users and our service providers. Just like air quality and water resources, it knows no boundaries really. They encourage through the policies and programs that we work with CVWD, Desert Water and our neighbors. He noted that CVWD has implemented a region wide water conservation programs related to landscaping. We have role to play, but it isn't just our city that will be able to solve the problem. Regarding commercial development, Mr. Drell said that part of the exercise of looking 20 years into the future was looking under the surface, not just at what is the most obvious impact of a particular action, but at the secondary, etc., ones. A fundamental starting point of the GPAC's discussion on land use wasn't the normal one. They looked at commercial development and the impact. He said that commercial development is what drives almost everything else in the city in terms of land use. Commercial development generates jobs, jobs generate a demand for housing, and then they were back at residential and said it's the landscaping of residences that demands most of the water. He said there is some conclusion that if housing demands most of the water and industry doesn't, they should have more commercial use. But again, there was a connection between residential and commercial. They are like Siamese twins and he thought we'd ignored that to a certain degree. We've looked at them as contradictory land uses that we have to 20 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 protect from each other. That has been our emphasis, land use compatibility when in fact they are Siamese twins. The people who work in commercial development, industry and offices have to live somewhere. The curiosity is when they start looking at the difference between traditional industry and the tourist industry and their relationship to housing. In terms of filling up resort housing, our market is the whole world and the economy of the whole world. In terms of our local housing market which is permanent resident housing, there is a very intimate relationship between the production of local jobs and the demand for resident housing. Those are inextricably related. Therefore, economic development, even though the factory may not demand any water other than employees flushing a toilet, could create a huge demand for water indirectly depending on how these people are housed and how we have used the land to house them. Mr. Criste stated that the next element showed that same kind of parallel. Commissioner Lopez said that 20 years ago when he first came out here as ` •. a new resident, they would assume that anyone that had four to six inches of rain a year had to be an expert on how to conserve water. They talked philosophically how some of this is based on some philosophical views. He thought what they have seen, and that most of the residents would agree, is that philosophically over the years we have taken our eye off that ball and allowed places to be built or developments to come through. Using the Desert Springs Resort as an example, there is a golf course with a lot of greenery, Monterey Country Club and the Lakes. Now all of a sudden there is a need to really conserve water and they get back to looking like the Arizona desert with landscaping that is more hospitable to conserve water. He really wanted to make sure that staff always, and they need to keep it at the forefront in the next 20 years, not take their eye off the ball again. He thought these policies, procedures and programs helped to do that. But he knew they needed to do better conserving the water. He thought the use of tertiary water should be looked at. He knew it was available to many golf courses and some chose not to use it because it effected the cost of their operation in replacing certain items. They needed to watch the technology of how to deal with that particular type of water usage. Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to speak regarding this element. There was no one. 21 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 ' Mr. Criste stated that consistent with that discussion, but having different characteristics, was the Air Quality Element. He noted that we are a highly regulated environment at this point and had been for the last 15 years. This element focused on two big issues effecting Coachella Valley air quality. That was small particulate matter sometimes called PM 10, ten micron or smaller. There was also ozone which we largely import into the valley from air basins to the west. The discussion provided some background information and talked about the regulatory environment that we are subject to and have to operate in, both essentially as a cascade of federal down to state and regional regulation. Then they spoke to the two primary pollutants of concern, PM10 and the ozone and cited the state and federal standards. He said they also tried to give the reader an understanding of the relationship between the climate in the valley and how we got the pollutant levels. Then they described the current circumstances and some of the history with regard to PM10 and ozone. On PM10, he noted that we have been struggling for years to be found to be an attainment area, a term used under the Clean Air Act. He said we have gotten close a couple of times, but to some extent we are victims of our own success. The development we've had, the site disturbance, the increases in traffic and all those things compounded the generation of PM10. He said we are and have been instituting more and more strict measures to try to control that as described in the element. Ozone heretofore had been pretty much an imported problem, but we are starting to create our own ozone issues. So our efforts with Sunline and the City's other efforts to try to bring other fuels primarily associated with automobile traffic or other means of moving vehicles would be important in addressing our contribution to ozone. Then they briefly discussed other pollutants like carbon monoxide and nitric oxides. Then the City's fugitive dust control ordinance which has been pretty effective with few well publicized examples that were very much associated with our wind regime. In the Geotechnical Element there is an exhibit that showed the wind hazard area. The dunes we 22 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 have are a direct artifact not only of the highly erosive processes we have in the desert, but the tremendous power of the wind to take particulate matter, lift it and transport it. We have a natural environment much like the drought condition that we have to work within and try to manage the way we do things to limit those impacts. Those spoke about alternative energy as a means of addressing some of those issues. They described some of the air quality monitoring stations that South Coast Air Quality Management District has and then they also spoke to the sensitive receptors in the valley. He said we have a higher than average age in our community, as well as Rancho Mirage and Indian Wells. The average household is older. Older folks and young children were particularly susceptible to these pollutants. That was another important driver from an economic view as well as a human health point of view to address this issue. The next part was the future directions. He said it was very much an act locally but think globally sort of mandate. CVAG was listed as the regional coordinator for these measures and they needed to continue to work on doing what they do in a more thoughtful manner to try to control these emissions. He said there was one single primary goal for air quality which was the preservation and enhancement of local and regional air quality for the protection of the health and welfare of the community. He thought the welfare of the community was broad. It was not only health, but economic. It was even the lasting material wealth and well being of our community. He said there were full sets of policies and programs that attempted to address those issues. He asked for any questions. Mr. Drell said he had another comment relating air quality to land use like he did water to land use. He said it related to the same question about commercial development and the relationship between commercial development and residential development. For every trip origin there is a destination. So while they are often focusing when they think of development and controlling development, most ordinances have controlled residential development thinking if they somehow controlled where people live and don't let them live anywhere, they will control growth and control water consumption and control all of the associated negative impacts to growth. 23 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 The problem was when they have all the destinations, they still get all the traffic and the automobile trips into the city. Then all the associated impacts of them. For every origin is a destination. One of the issues that GPAC grappled with was that purely by the city's geography being in the center of the valley, we will always be one of the prime destinations of trips. Therefore, how we organize that relationship between origins and destinations, origins meaning homes and destinations meaning places of work and places where people shop. That would have an ultimate impact on air quality because it would determine not just how many trips people make and what mode of travel they use, but how long those trips would be. Whether a short trip of two blocks or a mile or a trip of 25 miles. That would ultimately have a profound impact on the city's air quality when we are all done. Air quality was one of those impacts that change very very slowiy and almost imperceptibly. Once a land use structure was created which was not conducive to protecting air quality, it was very hard to go back and change it and correct that problem. As they are facing in Los Angeles. All the alternatives that might be used to change things were pretty much precluded by an established land use pattern. Commissioner Jonathan asked Mr. Criste if we would expect high density residential to generate a greater adverse impact on the ozone layer. They were looking at more traffic and more car trips with higher density residential than commercial. Mr. Drell said that for every trip there is a destination. Commissioner Jonathan said he understood that. Mr. Drell said that if we have the bulk of the destinations, the trips, whether they originate here or not, a great number of them would end up here. He said it was a very complicated interaction, but it was not as simple. When they think of a trip as an origin and a destination, sometimes they ended up with surprising conclusions of how they then organize them in relationship to each other. Commissioner Jonathan said he heard what he was saying and said it was a cogent point, but he didn't know whether it was a case of the chicken or the egg coming first. Most restaurants and most retailers didn't follow the philosophy of build it and they shall come. They didn't put up a store and say eventually people will come because we are here and because we are creating employment. Some commercial came into existence because the population has reached its saturation point. It could be argued that the increase in population is what drives commercial development versus commercial driving additional residential. He thought at the end of the day it 24 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 was a symbiotic relationship and they both impact each other regardless of whether the chicken or egg comes first. To avoid adverse impacts on pollution or water usage, they stop development. That wasn't going to happen. So the question was if there is a big difference between the two. Mr. Drell thought he would see that when they get to looking at the traffic model and how the traffic model analyzes the various alternatives given the fact that the traffic model was not really designed to do that. It was designed to study macro events throughout the valley, but it did show some interesting, surprising correlations relative to how they organize origins and destinations relative to both total trips and length of trips. The longer the trip is, the more pollution that would occur. A two-block trip, although cold starts are still an important problem and generate more pollution per mile than a 30-mile trip, but still in total a 30-mile trip would generate more pollution. More importantly, certain land uses absolutely preclude alternative ways of transporting yourself around in terms of how they arrange them. He said he grew up in L.A. and they would never be able to have a good bus system in L.A. no matter how much money they poured into it because the land use made it inefficient to try to transport people that way. He said this also went back to the question of us having plenty of water today and maybe having plenty of water for 20 years. Our transportation works fine now and it might even work in 20 years. When they start asking the question of how it would work in maybe 50 years, hopefully our time horizon went even further than the 20 years. That's when they start carrying everything out to its logical conclusion and saying, okay, are we painting ourselves into a corner. Mr. Criste stated that next week when they talk about the land use and traffic they could elaborate on that discussion. It was a very important discussion regionally. Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to speak regarding this element. MR. TOM NOBLE, 42-620 Caroline Court in Palm Desert, addressed the commission. He said he hadn't really intended to comment on these elements, and he wasn't sure he fully understood what was happening, but it seemed to him on the water issues and the air quality issues that there are very adept agencies in the valley now *AW handling those. It seemed to him the approach for the City would be 25 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 to state a policy encouraging conservation, encouraging high air quality, and then basically get out of the way and let CVWD and CVAG go ahead with their policies which he thought were highly effective. He agreed with Mr. Criste that CVAG's approach requiring a certain amount of desert scape in landscaping was minimal, but he thought they had greater plans for higher levels of conservation in the future. He said he would hate to see the City conflicting with CVWD in that case and with CVAG on air quality issues. They were all looking for the same result and he thought they could end up interfering with one another. MS. LOUISE KERMODE, 38-731 Desert Mirage Drive, addressed the commission. She didn't understand if we are over drafting the water now and they were planning on all this building, where the water would come from. It didn't make any sense to her. She said she would like a little better explanation of where they were going to fill in for all the over drafted water. Mr. Drell said that was the $64,000 question. The energy issue received a lot more attention because we are confronted more immediately by it. It went back to our time horizon and we have an immediate experience with that with electricity going out. The water issue was absolutely fundamental and it wasn't just fundamental in the Coachella Valley, it was fundamental throughout the and western United States which to a certain degree to a more or lessor degree were in the same predicament. We are living on prehistoric water predominately. On the other hand, people still have children, immigrants still flood into this part of the country, both from outside the country and from the east. Despite all the people ragging about California, people are still coming and we still have a very strong effort to develop our economy and our economy requires people to work and it attracted employees. Did the element deal with it adequately? No. But they would be talking about ways to at least make it better given the constraints and the inevitability of population growth and growth in our economy which we actively promote. They're talking about developing jobs, increasing city and public revenues, and what that does. Economic development did that. But economic development and population growth and development were inextricably intertwined. It is difficult to deal with this absolutely fundamental problem without starting to take those all apart. But there were ways in terms 26 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 r.. of water and air where they could surely try to consume less at the very least. He hoped they would get to a position to create a balance. Commissioner Jonathan informed Ms. Kermode that he also shared that concern and thought they all did. He thought they needed to stay tuned to this process because in his mind natural resources are needed. Needed by human beings and businesses. They need energy and water. Both of those did have somewhat of a fine limit, certainly water. Part of what the commission would do was look to the next 20 years and/or 50 years and they had to take that into consideration. He didn't think they were at an extreme point where they stop everything, but they needed to understand where they are in that process since they were already in a negative position with regard to water and not proceed with this plan without having a better, more tangible understanding of what that limit is and where they are heading. He was sure they would hear more about that as this discussion proceeded. To Mr. Noble's comments, Commissioner Lopez commented that there are elements and policies in the General Plan that incorporate the coordination between CVWD and CVAG to help drive a lot of these points within the plan. But they did always want to keep it foremost. By having this element in the plan, it assured that they weren't taking their eyes off of the ball, primarily those two areas of water usage and air quality as it pertains to the development of our community in the future. Not just Palm Desert, but the Coachella Valley. Mr. Drell noted that CVWD has water conservation formulas for landscaping. He thought they might be following Palm Desert's formula. Upon an understanding that their standards allowed them to grow alfalfa, we came up with far more stringent standards that said they could only grow alfalfa on a third of someone's property, not all of it. It created great consternation in the landscape community and it took them a while to adjust. The City has often led the way and other agencies have followed and this was the case with water. Mr. Criste stated that another resource element was the Energy and Mineral Resources Element starting on page IV-63 of the General Plan. They provided background information. With regard to mineral resources, he said they were largely limited to sand and gravel resources which were not uncommon and were important to the 27 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 construction industry and associated industries. They talked about the classification of those. He commented that one of the more important aspects of this element had to do with energy resources. He noted that in the Coachella Valley we are blessed with tremendous energy resources in the Coachella Valley, not only tremendous wind resources, but in the south end of the valley we have tremendous geothermal resources where a lot of electricity is generated. There were also great opportunities for solar energy. So they pointed out those issues. He referred to an exhibit in the element that maps the mineral resources that they know to occur in the planning area primarily north of 1-10 and one pocket immediately west of Rio Del Sol in the Rancho Mirage sphere of influence. The next part spoke to electrical power services and what limited control we have over our own destiny there. He said there were some efforts by the City to gain a little more control, at least in terms of pricing of electric power. The generation of power was very much an economics driven matter and one of both values as well as concerns for air quality and other environmental issues. He said the regulatory issues discussed the service providers, both Edison and IID were discussed in the element. Then they also spoke to natural gas and those services. Also local renewable energy resources that he just mentioned and efforts of Sunline to take advantage of emerging technologies like fuel cells, hydrogen technologies and those sorts of things. Some of the programs Sunline and College of the Desert have been involved in. Before Peter Wilson left, he had spoken about the Cal State University being interested in pursuing those same sorts of issues. They had a discussion of future directions and the primary goal is efficient, sustainable and environmentally appropriate use and management of energy and mineral resources, insuring their long- term availability and affordability. Then they had policies and programs addressing that. It was a case where they could generate resources locally to some degree, but they were also largely reliant upon a regional and global energy economy at this point. He asked for any questions. 28 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to address the commission regarding this element. There was no one. Mr. Criste said the next element and the last element in the Environmental Resources Element was the Open Space Conservation Element. He explained that both Open Space and Conservation were mandated elements by the state. They joined them together since they were given the flexibility to cobble the general plan together as seen fit. For us, he said open space and conservation were very important. They looked at it as the golden goose that gives reason for the Coachella Valley to be such a thriving destination area. He said there was a fair bit of purpose statement in that regard. The background information discussed some of the regulatory requirements and then the open space categories followed the state guidelines. There was open space for recreation and they listed some of those resources like the National Monument at Joshua Tree, etc. They also cited the city's parks, which were also discussed in the Parks and Recreation Element which they would cover next time. Also open space for natural resources and that included biological resources and in some instances could even reference the mineral resources in the planning area. They spoke to some of those resource areas like Thousand Palms and the Coachella Valley Preserve. Then open space for managed production of resources and that was really a reference to mineral resources primarily. If they had forests, they would fall under that category as well. Then open space for health and safety and that had to do with preservation of our air, water and addressing issues like fire risk and those sorts of health and safety concerns. Then they spoke to various legislative acts that have been passed that empower us to acquire land for parks and open space purposes. He noted that Palm Desert has been a real leader in those sorts of things, as have other cities in the Coachella Valley. Those were listed. They spoke to the public lands trusts that we have in the valley, not the least of which was the Coachella Valley Mountains Conservancy which is a state agency and had been a leader in helping them to 29 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION s SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 consolidate open space lands and enjoin them with publicly owned lands for conservation. Available funding mechanisms were addressed that the City and others have tapped into to acquire lands and to put into effect conservation. They briefly discussed future directions and a couple of goals which had to do with the preservation, management and protection of these environmental resources. Again, the philosophy was espoused that we can have a balance between the community's built environment and the local and regional protection and preservation of the unique desert environment. There were policies and programs to put these into effect. He asked for any questions. Mr. Drell said this was another connection with land use. Just like water, open space is an absolute finite resource and even more palpable. Water is hidden underground. He said there is a certain amount of open space in this valley. Every time we develop another square foot of it, there is a square foot less, probably forever. That again went back to the fundamental question of how to deal with the pressures for growth in land use. Given that every time they reduce a subdivision by one house, by one lot, that lot got pushed out somewhere else. Given a fixed amount of demand for either residential or commercial or whatever real estate, every time they consume an extra square foot of it would end up somewhere else in this valley. That somewhere else would be a piece of open space. Unless we come to grips, either through a physical mandate on the limit of both commercial/industrial development, period, or in how we physically accommodate in terms of surface area the growth we are subject to, that determines how much open space would be left over. At the same time one of the most important issues and side effects of the multi species plan, although legally motivated by protection of endangered species, its most tangible result would be the preservation of a lot of open space which would probably be more meaningful to people than the fact that there is a Jerusalem cricket that would live or not live. But it went back to land use and how they manage growth and organize growth. That would determine at the end of the day whether we look like the San Gabriel valley or the San Fernando valley or like the french countryside where they see individual towns and lots of wonderful countryside around it. That difference had to do with how we regulate land use. 30 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 taw Commissioner Tschopp noted that the General Plan cites the government code that requires every city and county to prepare and adopt a local open space plan within its jurisdiction. Then it went on to talk about open space categories, locations within the planning area, and then went on to cite Joshua Tree National Park and other things that aren't within our jurisdiction. He asked if that was reconciled within our planning for the city within our jurisdiction. Mr. Criste asked if he was concerned that we have extended ourselves beyond our authority. Commissioner Tschopp said he was only reading what it cited as the government code and then what we are using as areas outside of our jurisdiction. Mr. Criste said there is an expression in planning that says make no small plans. Over the course of developing the General Plan, they started with the resources first. One of the things the GPAC came to %1" terms with was that the boundaries issue has limits in terms of how and what we can control and what can control us as a community. Over the course of looking at what they should really be evaluating, it was determined that it was appropriate that the City, which has been a leader in the Coachella Valley, not be afraid to cast its net broadly and that if they were to evaluate those issues/resources which are really regional resources, we would be in a better position to voice our concerns in the future when regional governments or state and national government was talking about how they are going to manage them, delete them or expand them. So we are mandated to address those things within our limits and were not precluded from better educating ourselves and arming ourselves with knowledge so we can be even more effective leaders in the regional dialogue that occurs on these resources. Commissioner Tschopp said that we are in comprehensive compliance with the government code then. Mr. Criste said yes, absolutely. 31 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 ..ri Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to address the commission regarding this element. MR. GEORGE MARZICOLA, 71-876 Vista Del Rio in Rancho Mirage, addressed the commission. He said he has been in the valley for 40 years. Most of his work was in Palm Desert. His background career was brokerage and then he got into raw land syndication and had 22 partners in ten companies and they concentrated on Country Club Drive. He said they owned and developed about 1,500 acres there, so he had some knowledge of Palm Desert and development. He stated that for every yin is a yang. All he had heard here tonight was negativity. We are losing water, etc. His suggestion for the commission's consideration was to bring in a bigger picture. His own development he made appearances and would bring in someone from the County Water District because they had a much larger view of the water and water resources. Looking at our history, he said the early farmers in the 1800's were very practical. They contracted with the Colorado River for water. They bought water from the Colorado River to conserve our own aquifer. His best knowledge when he would bring someone in from the Water District, they would testify that there is about 200 years of water supply here in the desert. No one mentioned in this report that in a three-year period we had two 100-year floods. No one had mentioned that it is cyclic. There are times we get incredible rainfall here. That is why they had to build a bridge across Bob Hope Drive as an example, and other places in the valley. His major point was for them to please consider the other side of the coin. They had heard the yin where we will run out of water, etc., now look at the yang part. He wanted to see a broader view of water. He also urged them not to be so influenced by the negativity that they commit the horrible crime that Palm Springs did in 1970 when the city council declared a moratorium on development. It was wonderful for Palm Desert because it moved the epicenter of development from Palm Springs to Bob Hope Drive and Country Club Drive. That was how we got our development here and how we really took off. He asked them to consider where they are headed and their recommendations and consideration that if they choke off development, they are going to drive development away to some 32 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 other place. We have 600 square miles of flat land in this valley, so we have plenty of room for development. He did want them to consider the other side of the coin. After no further comments, Mr. Criste noted that the next element was the Geotechnical Element. He said in the general plan discussion, they were highlighting the constraints issues, but they were certainly looking at these resources as essentially economic resources for economic development as well. He said they were moving into the Environmental Hazards Element chapter. The Geotechnical Element was a very important element in the valley and our reason was very much a technical phenomenon. We have an area that is probably one of the most technically dynamic in the world. The valley is a creation of a spreading zone created by the fault which extends down to what is called the east pacific rise that created the Gulf of Mexico, and if it weren't for sediments from the Colorado River, we would still be part of the Gulf of Mexico as far as Indio. So we are in this area that has spread the valley, raised the mountains, created a tremendous area of sediment that has also provided us with this tremendous aquifer that Mr. Marzicola referred to that stores all this great ground water that has taken millions of years to build up. So we have both a benefit from the geotechnical conditions and then geotechnical hazards which they outlined in the element. They talked about some of the geotechnical conditions. Everything from the basement rock to the sand dunes were all geotechnical aspects of the valley. Because we have this dynamic area, we are subject to ground shaking and even ground rupture. In the element there were several exhibits including seismically induced rock zones, rock fall areas and landslides. We have areas that are subject to settlement when we have strong ground shaking and fault hazards and areas where faulting actually passes through the valley that would create not only ground rupture, but tremendous ground acceleration or shaking. Then there were the wind hazard areas as well. They talked about these throughout the element at length because they are very important and have a tremendous long-term and sometimes immediate .consequence for the valley. It also related to issues like subsidence, partners in our air quality issue with the sands created by these .r geotechnical conditions. 33 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 Then they talked about measuring seismic hazards and how that is done. We have had some tremendous advances in geotechnical prediction, earthquake prediction and the size of earthquakes and that kind of modeling had become more sophisticated. A lot has been learned about our region since the Landers quake and that effected building codes to protect property and lives in the future. Then they spoke about the individual faults that are tremendously interesting and beautiful things in themselves, but also constituted significant physical constraints that we need to manage our ways around. They also included things like liquefaction and deformation of land, etc. So they spoke to these at length and they provided really good background for the planners and for others who have to implement the regulation of land use in the community. Then they talked about mitigating these impacts and there was state law and regulations that not only mapped them, but also tells us how to address development in these seismically active zones. They referred to the Uniform Building Code, the California Building Code, etc., and seismic retrofit requirements. They spoke to the future directions issue and then a single goal to maximize protection of human life, land and property from the effects of seismic and geotechnical hazards. We have sets of policies and programs and a very excellent geotechnical report which was in EIR that the commission would be getting a copy of. It was in the appendix of it. He asked for any questions. Chairperson Campbell asked if this was the section that talked about the ground sinking. Mr. Criste thought they pretty much covered the subsidence issue. The ground shaking was the main theme here. Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to address the commission regarding this element. There was no one. Mr. Criste stated that the next element had to do with flooding and hydrology. As Mr. Marzicola pointed out, we have been subject to some tremendous flooding events. He said it was kind of an irony that the desert has some of the most severe flooding events that occur 9 anywhere and it has to do with our geography and the nature of our 34 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 physical area here. He thought they provided some pretty good background information, also speaking to the regulatory environment we are in and tried to provide some understanding of the climatic conditions that would occasionally allow for tremendous storms to brew right over our area. They talked about the benchmark storm that occurred in Indio. He said there would be some photos into the document, but it showed some of the flooding we had here in 1976 and even in 1979 when he came out here, he remembered at Miles Avenue the Whitewater River must have been 20 feet deep gunnel to gunnel rushing through there, so it is an amazing thing for those that have witnessed flooding in the desert. It then spoke to the local and regional flood control issues. The Coachella Valley Water District is responsible for the regional flood control, management of the Whitewater River and the incrementally being constructed mid valley stormwater channel. In the north area, there was the future Thousand Palms flood control project to protect Thousand Palms and Interstate 10. In the city we have local facilities like the San Pascual Channel which is managed by the City. They talked about FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which maps major flood zones and they consolidated the flood mapping and created a single exhibit. It was in the element that showed the different flood zones within the planning area. It talked about the backbone drainage system and the substantial investment that has been made in flood protection already and the ongoing flood control facilities and improvements that are made. And the City's master drainage plan and how some of the zone systems had been developed and some of the major drainage facilities that have been approved and some that are planned. Then they spoke to the extensive use in the valley of mitigation through design where golf courses and other kinds of open space amenities are used for flood control. They discussed the non point source discharge where flooding could also carry pollutants into areas where they can percolate into the ground water. Then opportunities for flood control facilities or associated open space to be used for wildlife or even for passive open space for park type activities, etc. 35 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 There was a single goal. A comprehensive assessment of flooding and other hydrologic hazards in the community and complete facilities and services effectively protecting lives and property. Then they had a series of policies and programs that addressed us attempting to reach that goal. He asked for any questions. Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to address the commission regarding this element. There was no one. Mr. Criste said the next element starting on page V-43 was the Noise Element. He said they could see in the graphics provided throughout, noise is associated primarily with transportation and almost entirely with vehicular traffic. They provided some background discussion. They spoke to the California Department of Health Services and the model we use to model future impacts of traffic especially, but other sources of noise on the community. The noise was generally boiled down to a 24-hour average of community noise called the community noise equivalent level. In their discussions that was how they compared relative noise environments in the valley. They spoke to the range of noises and their effects physiological and even psychological. Then they characterized the existing noise environment and pointed to things like the Union Pacific/1-10 corridor which is a substantial noise generator. He noted that sometimes aircraft overflights were, although we weren't particularly effected, but he identified the Bermuda Dunes Airport and the noise contouring that had been done for it. Then they also spoke to some of the common mitigation measures we have available that are pretty effective at bringing traffic noise down and those included berming and masonry walls. Those kinds of facilities that were able to attenuate noise. He thought noise really lent itself to mitigation very well. They also spoke to mechanical noise sources, heating and ventilation equipment, and those sorts of things that can have components of noise that can project fair distances. Then they talked about noise and land use compatibility and provided a table which showed what noise contours anticipated in 2020 based on the traffic model that they ran. Those were totally unmitigated, so they needed to be taken with a 36 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 large grain of salt. As shown on the graphic on page V-47, even along arterials effective mitigations could be put into effect with the proper kind of acoustical barrier design. Table V-4 on page 51 showed some of the general compatible issues, noise levels, and kinds of land uses generally considered to be compatible and not compatible. They spoke to the City's effective noise control ordinance which had been used on several projects in the city. He had personally and he thought it had been very effective. Managing the noise environment and speaking to future directions in terms of noise management and managing the noise environment so it didn't adversely impact the community. The goal for this element is a noise environment that respects community residents and reflects the community's appreciation for a sense of place with the peace and quiet in balance with the city's resort residential character, its sensitive receptors and its natural wildlife habitats. Then they had policies and programs to address the various noise issues identified. He asked for any questions. �Ww Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to address the commission on this element. There was no one. Mr. Criste stated that the next element was Hazards and Toxic Materials. He said this was something of a boiler plate element, but there are issues that arise that we have some control over. They had to do with assigning truck routes, especially for the hauling of petroleum products and things like that. As rail traffic increased, these kinds of issues would arise, but they also had them on a more mundane level with some of the land uses that have chemical and volatile fuels associated with them. They discussed briefly hazardous waste and sewage disposal. It could effect things like air quality and water quality and human health in general, then spoke to the hazardous waste management laws and regulations in effect. He said the County was a big player in helping us manage hazardous waste materials and the hazardous materials response teams we have that are integral to our fire protection services. 37 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 Then they had future directions and the goal to maintain and promote measures to protect life and property in the city of Palm Desert from hazards resulting from human activities and development. Then they had policies and programs to put those sorts of things into effect. He also mentioned that this was developed in conjunction with the Emergency Preparedness Element and tremendous input from not only the city police and fire, but also from the Public Safety Commission. He asked if there were any questions. Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to address the commission regarding this element. There was no one. The next chapter was Public Services and Facilities. The first of element was the Water, Sewer and Utilities Element. As opposed to resource management, he explained this had to do with infrastructure. The nuts and bolts that deliver resources and services to the community and they spoke to the government regulations in that respect and then touched upon CVWD as our water purveyor, Edison and IID as electric service providers. They also noted that in the planning area in Bermuda Dunes, the Myoma Dunes Water District is the provider of a limited area there. For waste water treatment, we have the Cook Street plant. Parts of the planning area would be served by a plant on Avenue 38 north of Indio. They talked about the use of septic tanks and how we are trying to retire those because there is a demonstrated relationship between ongoing septic use and ground water contamination. There were requirements of the city for connection to sewer systems. They talked about the major utility corridors and also making compatible some of the utility infrastructure like substations which Palm Desert has been pretty effective in integrating with residential development so that they aren't offensive but are able to provide that step down service to give them usable voltages for our power. Deregulation was discussed, which had brought us all kinds of positive and negative consequences and they were still thrashing that out. They spoke about natural gas, both large volume capacities running through the valley, as well as the local low pressure lines that serve homes and opportunities for conservation. Then other service 38 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 providers like telephone and cable television. Also solid waste management. They knew that Edom Hill was being retired soon and that they are looking for other places to haul our trash, hopefully just on an interim basis until Eagle Mountain came on line. They spoke to those issues of land use alternatives, future directions and then a goal to have a full range of water, sewer and utility facilities and services that safely, adequately and cost effectively meet the immediate and long-term needs of the city. Then they had policies and programs to implement the element. He asked for any questions. Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to address the commission regarding this element. There was no one. Mr. Criste stated that the next element was Public Buildings and Facilities. He indicated that the same format was used. They identified a full range of these facilities. In Palm Desert we have a tremendous number of community facilities that the City has helped to bring about. They also cited facilities like fire stations and policies stations, as well as the schools and libraries briefly. He noted that we have a separate Schools and Libraries Element that spoke to those matters in greater detail. To some degree it talked about the utility infrastructure again, as well as critical structures like hospitals and the fire stations. When we have earthquakes and floods, we will have these public facilities and their services available to provide emergency response. He noted that there was a fair bit of future direction discussion. He said they worked at length with the utility providers and with other service providers. There were a couple of goals. One was the provision of a full range of dependable and cost effective public buildings and facilities meeting the functional, social and economic needs of the community. The other was the compatible and aesthetically satisfying integration of public buildings and facilities into the city's built and natural environments. Then there were policies and programs to implement the element. He asked for any questions. Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to address the commission regarding this element. There was no one. sow 39 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 .r The next element was Police and Fire Protection. Mr. Criste said that this ended up being a much more extensive discussion than anticipated. They had tremendous involvement of the police department and fire department. They had many meetings. They also met three times with the Public Safety Commission on these matters. He noted that there was quite an extensive discussion. He said that some of this was time sensitive because budgets would change things. As the growth of the city continued, they would have different numbers, but the basic standards were also cited in terms of sworn officers per capita, etc. Then major programs that the City has pursued on crime prevention, public safety and other kinds of law enforcement and public safety services and programs that have been instituted by the City. They talked about the facilities. The fire stations and their capabilities equipment wise the kinds of things they can respond to and the mutual aid agreements we have, as well as the Cove Communities a arrangement we have with Rancho Mirage and Indian Wells which helped to give us quite an economies of scale that we might not get if we were acting just as solely individual entities. There was also a brief future directions discussion. The goal was the provision of efficient, high quality police and fire protection for all types of development and socio economic segments of the community. They wanted all segments to be equally protected and served. He said there were policies and programs to implement the element. He asked for any questions. Regarding police services, Commissioner Jonathan asked if there was an analysis about the point at which it may or may not become cost effective for the city or the cove communities to employ their own police force rather than contract with the County. Mr. Criste said they didn't really discuss the matter. Commissioner Jonathan asked if the General Plan was the appropriate venue for that analysis. Mr. Criste thought it was more of a budget analysis. 40 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 Commissioner Jonathan asked if it addressed the mechanism of delivering those services. Mr. Criste said there was discussion about that. The discussion was that the quality and types of services are established in the element. How they get there, whether through a private/city sponsored or through a contract service, he didn't think they had much dialogue about that. Mr. Drell thought the main driver or lack of discussion was our satisfaction with our relationship with the County Sheriff. We get very good cooperation and they are very responsive to our needs. When they looked at the City's budget, police and fire in terms of the City's general fund budget was something like two-thirds or three-quarters of the budget. It is a huge piece of it. He believed that in looking at the experience of other cities that have abandoned the contract and gone their own way, they didn't necessarily seem to have a higher level of service or any better economics. Until it was absolutely demonstrated that our service is suffering or our budgets are .r.. disproportionate in comparison with other cities that have their own police and fire departments, he didn't think they would ponder it too much. He thought as a long-term program or policy they should always be re- evaluating it. He didn't think it would hurt to have it as an ongoing policy of evaluating the cost effectiveness of contracting versus having our own. It probably wasn't a bad policy to have in there. Mr. Criste said it is our policy with regard to regular review of whether the service is satisfactory and those sorts of things that Mr. Drell was referring to. Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to address the commission regarding this element. There was no one. The Schools and Libraries Element was next. Mr. Criste noted that Palm Desert is a real leader. Not only do we have two separate K-12 school districts that serve the city and the planning area, but they now have a campus underway for a Cal State and another graduate campus for UCR. The element discussed the background information and discussed again the public schools and facilities that are here. It also referred to some of the private schools we have in the 41 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 community. It discussed issues of overcrowding, College of the Desert (COD), and the new facilities being built. He noted that we also have a branch of Chapman University here in the community. There is a 200-acre campus under construction at Cook and Frank Sinatra. He noted that we have a beautiful library we share with COD. Then they spoke to the future direction issues and a goal for educational and library facilities that provide city residents with a wide range of high quality services which are physically and financially accessible to all segments of the population. Another goal was schools and library facilities that serve as important venues for community, social and cultural events that play an important role in enhancing community cohesiveness. He said that theme of community cohesiveness was also seen throughout the General Plan.Then they had policies and programs to implement this. He noted they also had the tremendous advantage of having at least three really fine educators on the GPAC including the past president of COD and others who participated in providing input. He asked for any questions. Commissioner Jonathan noted that goal two which Mr. Criste just alluded to included community cohesiveness. He asked if GPAC or if the element addressed the potentially adverse consequences of having two school districts within a single city. Mr. Criste informed him that the committee had quite a dialogue about that subject. There was a policy to continue to pursue efforts to consolidate the city into a single district. Mr. Drell noted that the element was being discussed while the city was in the process of pursuing unification. Unfortunately, the decision did not go the City's way and he thought it was probably an irrevocable decision as far as he could tell. Based upon the way the decision went, his impression was that it didn't leave a whole lot of daylight for reconsideration of that. They ended up going farther than anyone else had before in that effort. When talking about the Land Use Element, they would learn that the Palm Springs District is moving full steam ahead acquiring real estate, they have bond issues and , money in the bank to build schools. He said that having two school districts might provide the opportunity for some competition to a certain degree. He 42 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 taw could see pluses and minuses and didn't hold much hope to see a change in the future. Commissioner Tschopp had a question about Cal State. Given that the entire document numerous times spells out how Cal State will end up being a driving force out in the north sphere, he asked how confident Mr. Criste or the individuals he talked to were on the projections that we will have 25,000 students out there in 17 years given that at this point approximately 20% of all courses taken there are done via video and given the increase in distance learning that all universities are experiencing today. Mr. Criste explained that the actual on-campus estimate, if he recalled correctly, was more like 15,000 on campus students and the balance was expected to be distance learning. There would be occasion when even the distance learning students needed to be at the campus, so they had the issue of brief but peak periods of population on campus. But he thought the master plan pointed to 15,000. �.. Commissioner Tschopp said it was 15,000 on a daily basis and 25,000 students. If they just took 15,000, they are looking at that campus throughout this document and its impact. Then he saw 1,200 dormitory rooms which was probably in line with other Cal State universities that had a very large commuter base. When Mr. Criste talked to other education officials on the campus, he asked if there was a thought that perhaps they didn't have that many people in the area because of the way long-distance learning is progressing and is expected by other authorities to be a major educational tool in the future. Mr. Criste said they do expect it to be and that is why they see they can dedicate so much of their capabilities to students who essentially will be off campus and remote with intemet and video television types of access to the curriculum. Commissioner Tschopp asked if the university was still projecting that in 17 years they will have 15,000 students on campus on a daily basis. Mr. Criste said yes. 43 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 Mr. Drell commented that inherent in the university education is the interaction with other human beings and other students and personal interaction with professors. If they had ever taken courses on television and compared that to good courses taken in person, there was no comparison. He didn't think television or the internet would ever take the place of in-the- flesh interactive learning with other human beings and professors. He said he was on the steering committee for the university planning (Commissioner Tschopp said he was, too) and they started with a much higher number. They started with the assumption of a more typical daily number of 25,000 and when they discussed the issue, they scaled it back to 15,000 assuming that nearly a third of the classroom days would be electronic or peripheral. He said the university was talking about setting up little branch campuses. Once it was Cal State Palm Desert, there would be branch campuses of Cal State Palm Desert in Blythe and Yucca Valley. So it would be dispersed to a certain degree, but he didn't think that long term sitting at home staring at a computer substituted for a real university education, but they would see. Commissioner Tschopp said he might disagree with him, but his only concern was truly how big they are looking at it to be an economic force out there as far as planning around it and perhaps even implementing changes in the land uses around it because of it. He just wanted to make certain that we feel very confident about the number of students who would be on campus that would be using business services, commercial services and the roads and so forth and what the impact of that would be on Palm Desert. That to him was the real question here. Mr. Criste said at the next meeting they would focus on that, but he thought Commissioner Tschopp would find that while the university is an important consideration, it wasn't by a long shot the only driver of some of the concepts that were developed for the balance of that planning area. He said they would get a chance to show the full picture next time when they talked about land use and the planning of that area. Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to address the commission regarding this element. There was no one. Mr. Criste noted that the next element was the Health Services Element. In that element they talked about something really important 44 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 to our population, not only because of our older population, but now we are getting a lot of families in the community. They talked about the hospital serving the community and while we don't host Eisenhower Medical Center, it was the closest service provider to us and was very conveniently located. They talked about some of the immediate care facilities that are available and some of the other kinds of health services that occur in the city or planning area. It talked about special services like the Healthy Cities program and the well care clinic as well as others like services to school children. Both psychiatric and mental health services were discussed. There were other important services including addiction treatment like at the Betty Ford Center and others. He noted there were veteran services and senior services that were part of the Joslyn Senior Center and other facilities. He indicated that COD is working to help provide us with more nursing capability through educational programs for registered nurses and they have moved more and more locally and regionally into treatment and facilities to treat and care for people with �.. Alzheimers. He said home care and hospice care was also a very important element of this as well as Shelter from the Storm. He noted that the community hosts the Foundation for the Retarded. There was the Desert Aids Project, the health care, education and training issues. The Institute for Critical Care Medicine was building a new campus in Rancho Mirage next door to us. Then some of the other specialty issues including accessibility to these various services. The next part was future directions in three areas with special attention to the demographic driven aspects of health care and health services. The goal was to insure that adequate and affordable health care is accessible to all community residents and visitors. Then they had policies and programs to implement the element. He asked for any questions. Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to address the commission regarding this element. There was no one. Mr. Criste said the next element was a very important element that they had tremendous input on from the City commissions and committees. It was the Emergency Preparedness Element. He noted 45 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 that we don't have earthquakes and floods very often, but when we do the consequences are significant and they could be sure they will occur again in the future, so being prepared for these was very important and required quite a coordination of everything from fire and police protection to health providers, to utility services and even the government being able to continue to coordinate with the various functions of the city. He said we have a very sophisticated multi hazard function plan that they worked closely with staff on in characterizing it in the element. He said we also have tremendous regional communications for emergency response. They talked about issues of accessibility. We have more and more dependence on Interstate 10, but we have seismically sensitive structures that get us onto and off of interstate 10 maintaining the integrity or our transportation system, as well as our water and sewer systems and our electric systems. All of them were important considerations and were all discussed in the element. They described the City's Emergency Operation Center, how the chain of command was established for addressing responses to emergencies, and then they spoke at length about future directions and how we might have other facilities like the universities and schools that could provide disaster relief staging areas and those kinds of capabilities. The goal was an integrated comprehensive emergency preparedness plan that provides adequate response and action plans for any hazard scenario which might effect the city's residents and visitors and which effectively minimizes the loss of life and economic resources and which maximizes emergency and recovery resources available through the county, state and federal agencies. Then there were policies and programs to implement the element. He said there was also a glossary at the end to explain some of the acronyms. Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone wished to address the commission regarding this element. There was no one. Mr. Drell said that if the commission had no additional comments about these elements, they should open up to the public for general comments. He thought some would deal with land use that they could address now or more likely address at our next meeting. He said he was contacted by various 46 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 different property owners regarding the map, many times bringing attention to mistakes. He said that some of the errors were probably mistakes that carried over from our existing land use map that were brought to their attention. At the next meeting, in addition to considering intentional or suggested changes from members of the audience for their particular pieces of property, he would give them a revised map that rectified the unintentional misdesignations in the map right now. Commissioner Tschopp asked if the commission could get better maps or perhaps zero in on specific areas and make them large enough to see clearly before the next meeting. Mr. Drell said if they got the BrightSide, that was a better map and already corrected a lot of the mistakes. It also focused just on the city limits and wasn't diluted by having to take in the scale of the whole planning area. He said they will be focusing on three areas in the land use discussion. The area north of Frank Sinatra to the freeway, a selected area along Highway 111 where there is an alley situation where they still have an unsolved land use problem, and then Portola where they are widening Portola from two to four lanes and should be then looking at �► whether or not our land uses are still appropriate. He said they would have very specific exhibits for those areas for the next meeting. Commissioner Tschopp asked if he would also provide a map showing any other areas that he was proposing changes to so that they would stand out very clearly so they could compare them to what they were before. Mr. Drell said yes. Once they absolutely identified all the unintentional changes, they would have a map that only highlighted those areas that are different. A lot of the areas that were different they changed because there was a historic designation dating back from 1975 where the actual developed land use was less intense and they still had the much more intense designation. So in those cases and probably the bulk of the changes were simply pulling back those designations to reflect what physically had been developed on the ground. But they could produce a map that only showed the changes and would make it very easy to see. Commissioner Jonathan said the General Plan document has six chapters plus a glossary and Mr. Criste started with Chapter 4, the elements other than Community Development which is where they find the Land Use Element. He didn't understand at the beginning that the Land Use Element was something they were deferring to the next meeting on October 7. 47 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 Mr. Criste said that was correct. That was also how they progressed with GPAC so they had context within which they could then talk about land use. Commissioner Jonathan confirmed that they weren't ignoring the Land Use Element, they were just going to devote that to its own meeting. Mr. Criste clarified that the Community Development Elements would be at the next meeting and they needed to discuss the order, but the lion's share of the discussion would understandably be focused on land use. Commissioner Jonathan commented that any members of the audience that had comments relating to land use would be given an opportunity to speak. Chairperson Campbell concurred. Chairperson Campbell referred back to the Request to Speak cards and asked if Mr. Noble would like to address the commission. Mr. Noble said he would wait until the next meeting when they got into the land use issues. Chairperson Campbell asked if Mr. Pratt wished to address the commission. MR. PATRICK PRATT, 79 Beekman Place in Palm Desert, addressed the commission. He said it was interesting to sit and listen to a lot of the elements and the macro discussion regarding the General Plan and the vision for the city of Palm Desert in the future. He said he has worked with Mr. Criste and thought Terra Nova did a great job. Regarding the comments by Mr. Drell about looking macro and then at many points get down to the land use decisions and the Land Use Element through a microscope, he said he had a dilemma because of the timing of all of this. The timing being that he was concerned about a particular land use adjacent to his residence and they were now looking at the General Plan. He said he would argue that it is appropriate to consider the current land use designations. He also noted that he was before them due to a particular project before the commission on that piece of land. When he got back from that meeting he received a Bright Scape(BrightSide)and the Bright Scape 48 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 was a great example of disseminating information to the community. If the timing had been such that this was happening before the project and the Bright Scape, he would be here in the macro talking about general land use discussions and what were appropriate relationships and compatibility. Unfortunately, he was stuck in between a project meeting and the General Plan discussion. He waited to talk about the land use discussion because they would have a land use discussion on October 7 at the same time that project was back before them. So it created a dilemma in the timing. As City Manager of Rancho Mirage, he was very well aware of the process and plans in development. There had been no moratorium on applications and things being processed through the community while they were going through their two-year general plan process, so out of fairness in a perfect world he would suggest that the land use designation of office at the northeast corner of Hovley and Cook is inappropriate. �.. When he got the Bright Scape notice, he opened it and it was very colorful. One thing that hit him was the surrounding areas to this particular land use of office was low density yellow all around it. If they looked at all the other areas of the community where they had this mass of low density residential, it wasn't an example that they have office surrounded by this at a corner. He thought they could also develop that property from a residential standpoint, even low density. An example was the Chadham Court project that was an infill project at the corner of Portola and Hovley. It is a very irregularly shaped project/piece of property. He thought they built it out in a very nice fashion with residential. Having said all of that in the macro, he understood that they have an application before them but out of fairness it probably wouldn't be appropriate for him to stand there as part of the General Plan discussion and suggest a change in mid stream, so he would only ask that they have their deliberations on the project at the next meeting in the midst of the discussion of the General Plan. He said the General Plan always is concerned in the community about design issues, heights, view corridors and compatibility. As they heard during his last presentation before them, one of his biggest concerns about the 49 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 project was not the project itself, but the two-story component of it. He thought that wasn't compatible and given where the applicant was in their process and where the commission was in their process, it was probably the best he could hope for. Chairperson Campbell asked if anyone else wished to address the commission. There was no one else. Commissioner Jonathan expressed his gratitude to Mr. Criste. He said Mr. Criste in and of himself was a resource to Palm Desert and Commissioner Jonathan appreciated all the good work he had done, as well as his presentation tonight. Commissioner Lopez thought they would be remiss if they didn't express their gratitude and congratulations to the GPAC. He said it might be premature at this point, but in going through the first phases of this, as well as reading it, it has been an awful lot of work. They devoted two years of intense work with the 18 individuals, as well as the two city council members who were part of the project. He congratulated him on a well thought out, ,may intense draft of this plan and he looked forward to the next meeting. Chairperson Campbell also thanked Mr. Criste. Chairperson Campbell left the public hearing open and asked for a motion to continue this to October 7. Action: It was moved by Commissioner Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner Lopez, by minute motion continuing Case No. GPA 01-04 to October 7, 2003. Motion carried 4-0. Commissioner Jonathan asked if this matter would be first on the agenda. Mr. Drell said he would like them to talk about that and how the commission would want to deal with the regular cases as it relates to this. Commissioner Jonathan noted that the public that was present tonight and would be here again next time would come to attend a 6:00 p.m. meeting, so he suggested that they not keep them waiting. , i 50 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 Chairperson Campbell thought they should do this first because some of the cases had to do with the land use. Mr. Drell noted that there was a case that was continued to the next meeting. Other than the continued case, staff had not advertised any of the other cases. He said there was a potential of five items in addition to the regular meeting. Mr. Smith said one was continued and four that staff pretty much committed to. Commissioner Jonathan thought it might be appropriate for some of the projects in the effected areas to have a chat with those applicants and maybe they would voluntarily agree to continue those items. Mr. Drell said they continued all of those cases to the next meeting. Commissioner Jonathan thought there were one or two that were continued to the first meeting. Mr. Drell said no, it was just the office project Mr. Pratt spoke about. Commissioner Jonathan thought it might be convenient to give it another meeting or two and let this matter, the General Plan, resolve itself. Mr. Drell agreed. He said they even talked about meeting at 4:00 p.m. as a special event and try to deal with the General Plan from 4:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. �•• Chairperson Campbell said they could also stay later. Mr. Drell agreed. They could stay to 11:00 p.m., they had before. Starting at 6:00 p.m., they were already ahead of the game. He thought it would be better to deal with the General Plan first since they had so many other projects that are hanging. Commissioner Jonathan suggested allocating a block of time for the General Plan, like 6:00 to 7:30 or 6:00 until 8:00 p.m. Hopefully that would be adequate time, but if not, they would cut it off at that point and continue that item to the next meeting and then move on to the other hearing items. Chairperson Campbell noted that the other five applications were probably something that wouldn't take very long. Commissioner Tschopp asked if it was difficult to move the meeting time up for a one meeting time. He suggested 4:00 p.m. or even 3:00 p.m. He said they needed to give it significant time for people to comment and opinions to be heard. Otherwise it would be very difficult to conclude all of this in one or two meetings. Mr. Drell said the General Plan was advertised in the BrightSide, but in the three areas of most concern, meaning the north Frank Sinatra, the area along Portola and Highway 111, they anticipated speakers. Staff was sending out mailed notices to all the property owners in those areas, so they were giving those property owners special invitations in addition to the BrightSide notice. 51 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 Commissioner Jonathan asked if Mr. Drell was anticipating a third meeting to wrap it up. Mr. Drell said it was possible because at the third meeting they were really back to dealing with the specific projects again. The goal was to be resolved enough by the time they got to those meetings that they were just concentrating on the design of those projects if they resolved the land use issue to a certain degree. Commissioner Jonathan stated that he would have no objection to a 4:00 p.m. special meeting for the General Plan with a break for a quick dinner and a 6:00 p.m. meeting for the other hearing items. He didn't think it referred to an actual time for the October meeting. Chairperson Campbell said it did say 6:00 p.m. and they needed to keep the General Plan at 6:00 p.m. Commissioner Junathan said he had no problem having a special meeting at 4:00 p.m. and then continue the meeting to 6:00 p.m., he was okay with that. Commissioner Lopez said he was okay with that too. Whether they started at 4:00 p.m. or 5:00 p.m., he thought they were going to be in for a long night. Tonight surprising went very quickly. He thought it might be nice } to get some of those items on October 7 to voluntarily move. Commissioner Jonathan said that was another option. Since those applicants were directly noticed as well, they could have the 4:00 meeting for the regularly scheduled items and then start the General Plan at 6:00 p.m. Commissioner Lopez was afraid a lot of those items would be continued. After further discussion, it was decided that the public hearing items should be advertised for 4:00 p.m. Planning Commission has the ability to set its hours. The question was if Chairperson Campbell could attend. Chairperson Campbell stated that she was willing to do that for one time. Mr. Drell said they would be doing those applicants a favor. They wouldn't have to wait through two or more hours of discussion on the General Plan before getting to their projects. Commissioner Jonathan said they would rely on staff to bring in something for dinner. They could meet from 4:00 p.m. to 5:30 p.m., break for dinner and then start the General Plan discussion at 6:00 p.m. Action: It was moved by Commissioner Jonathan, seconded by Commissioner Lopez, to start the meeting at 4:00 p.m. on October 7. Motion carried 5-0. 52 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 IX. MISCELLANEOUS None. X. COMMITTEE MEETING UPDATES A. ART IN PUBLIC PLACES - (No meeting) B. LANDSCAPE COMMITTEE - (September 3, 2003) Chairperson Campbell asked if Mr. Drell had any comments regarding that meeting. Mr. Drell said no. C. PROJECT AREA 4 COMMITTEE - (No meeting) XI. COMMENTS ... None. XII. ADJOURNMENT It was moved by Chairperson Campbell, seconded by Commissioner Jonathan, adjourning the meeting by minute motion. Motion carried 4-0. The meeting adjourned at 8:50 p.m. PHILIP DIRE , Secretary ATTEST: SONIA M. CAMPBELL, Chairperson City of Palm Desert, California /tm 53