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HomeMy WebLinkAbout0601 ��T�� MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION �.., � �� - TUESDAY - JUNE 1, 2004 6:00 P.M. - CIVIC CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBER ' � 73-510 FRED WARING DRIVE � �. � � �. ,� �. * .� -� �- �- � � � * � � .� .� * � �. � � � * * � � .� �. � �. .� -� �. � .� � * I. CALL TO ORDER Chairperson Jonathan called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m. II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Commissioner Finerty led in the pledge of allegiance. II1. ROLL CALL Members Present: Sabby Jonathan, Chairperson Dave Tschopp, Vice Chairperson Sonia Campbell Cindy Finerty '�' Jim Lopez Members Absent: None Staff Present: Phil Drell, Director of Community Development (arrived at 6:03 p.m.) Bob Hargreaves, City Attorney Steve Smith, Planning Manager Tonya Monroe, Administrative Secretary IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Request for consideration of the May 4, 2004 meeting minutes. Action: It was moved by Commissioner Finerty, seconded by Commissioner Campbell, approving the May 4, 2004 meeting minutes by minute motion. Motion carried 5-0. r.. MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 3 � , V. SUMMARY OF COUNCIL ACTION "'� Mr. Smith stated there were no May 27, 2004 City Councif items pertaining to Planning Commission. VI. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS None. VII. CONSENT CALENDAR None. VIII. PUBLIC HEARINGS Anyone who challenges any hearing matter in court may be limited to raising only those issues he, she or someone else raised at the public hearing described herein, or in written correspondence delivered to the Planning Commission at, or prior to, the public hearing. � � (Mr. Drell arrived at this time.) "� A. Case No. PP 04-10 - TIM DiTOMASO, Applicant IContinued from May 4 and May 18, 2004) Request for approval of a precise plan of design for a 7,475 square foot food court and a 3,300 square foot drive-thru restaurant located on the north side of Gerald Ford Drive approximately 250 feet east of Cook Street (APN 653-690- 017 and 018). Mr. Drell indicated that staff was recommending a continuance to July 6, 2004. They are still working with the site plan to make a better project. Chairperson Jonathan o ened the public hearing and asked if there was a motion to continue. � � 2 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1. 2004 �" Action: It was moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner Finerty, by minute motion continue Case No. PP 04-10 to July 6, 2004. Motion carried 5-0. B. Case No. CUP 93-7 Amendment #3 - ROC'S FIREHOUSE GRILLE, Applicant Request for approval of an amendment to the existing conditional use permit to allow Roc's Firehouse Grille to operate from 9:00 a.m. until 2:00 a.m, daily located at 73- 405 EI Paseo, #32A. Mr. Smith outlined the salient points of the staff report. He stated that since the writing of the staff report, letters of opposition were received and distributed to commission. As well, the applicant passed out a statement supporting the project along with signed petitions in it. He clarified that the staff recommendation was approval, subject to conditions as specified in the draft resolution. Mr. Smith indicated that �"" property owners within 300 feet of the application were notified, as well as businesses in the commercial center. Mr. Smith concluded by asking if there were any questions. Commissioner Lopez noted that the applicant was not requesting a change in the hours of music and asked if it would be appropriate to include that condition as part of the conditions just so it was clear. Mr. Drell indicated there should be a condition that says that all the conditions of the original CUP are still in effect. That is usually condition number one. Other than those amended, all others are still in effect. Commissioner Tschopp asked if staff was certain that it was Roc's customers causing the noise in the parking lot late at night and that it wasn't other patrons of EI Paseo businesses. Mr. Drell replied that at 2:00 a.m. he wasn't sure what other EI Paseo businesses would be open. He thought the applicant could probably respond to that. Commissioner Tschopp asked for clarification that staff wasn't certain that it was Roc's patrons. Mr. Drell said they weren't. That would probably be one of the things that the noise monitors would do, in addition to measuring the noise, they annotate what they think is causing the noise and they would � 3 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 see if it was someone from Roc's. So they would be noting what they think the origin of the noise is so they would have an idea of what an appropriate mitigation might be. Regarding Condition No. 2 that the restaurant's personnel will monitor the parking lot from 10:00 p.m. until 2:00 a.m., Commissioner Tschopp asked if there was any concern for safety or again, if it wasn`t Roc's customers creating a problem, what those personnel are supposed to do specifically. Mr. Drell said that as part of the warning to say be quiet in the parking lot, having someone there periodically to make sure there aren't people making noise, it is just to remind their customers who might be parking or leaving to be quiet. It's like any enforcement; people when seeing a pe�son there they might be more diligent. Commissioner Campbell asked if Mr. Smith knew about the people making the complaints and how long they have been living there in comparison to how long Roc's Firehouse has been there. Mr. Smith said he didn't know. ; s There were no further questions and Chairperson Jonathan o�ened the � public hearing and asked the applicant to address the commission. MR. ROLAND COOK AND MRS. JAYME COOK, 73-512 Sun Lane in Palm Desert, addressed the commission. Mr. Cook said that he and his wife are the owners of Roc's Firehouse Grill. He said he had a whole outline of stuff to talk about, but a lot was covered in the general discussion, so he was actually glad he left his notes at home. But he did want to address a couple of different things. He hoped the commission had a chance to review the packet he put together. It was kind of lengthy and some might seem redundant, but it was important for him to add everything that was in there. They would notice that he did sign the lease on June 1 , 2001 and after working on it all summer, they were able to open up in November of 2001 . During the time they went through the application process with the City and the Planning/Code Enforcement, they were very diligent in making sure that they did everything by the book. That's just the way they both are. Working with California ABC, the agency that issues the liquor � license, he talked to their investigator today just to get some .� � 4 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 � information and it is a fact that California ABC works in conjunction with the City and he wasn't sure if it was Planning or Code Enforcement and basically what they say is that they have an application for a liquor license from these people here, this is what their intentions are and ask if the City has any objection. He was told there was no objection from the City; therefore, they were issued a liquor license with no restrictions other than no serving anyone under age 21 and no alcohol sold between 2:00 a.m. and 6:00 a.m. Other than that, they have no restrictions. They could even have a five year old child sitting at the bar at 1 :00 a.m. having dinner, that's how their liquor license is laid out and what they were issued by California ABC. So during the whole time they were in business, they were operating knowing in their heads that they had done everything they needed to do to operate until 2:00 a.m. If he could survive closing at 9:00 p.m, or 10:00 p.m., he would. He has a lot of gray hair from it, but they enjoy it very much and it is their life. Something they both dreamed of for 20 plus years and it's finally � become a reality in the past three years. In the submitted packet, he said he commented on the types of people who come to their establishment. He didn't do that to throw out a who's who or any of that stuff because that didn't really matter. The only reason he did do that is so the Planning Commission and the Planning Department can see the type of clientele they do cater to. They have a lot of off duty law enforcement, fire fighters and professionals. A lot of the media come there after the 1 1 :00 o'clock news. They aren't just a bunch of young kids who have just had their first drink and don't know how to handle it. To be totally honest, that does happen once in a while, but they take measures to correct the problem. As Mr. Smith stated, one of the conditions to get approval is to have their personnel cruise through the parking lot every half hour. They already do that and they have a lot of personnel, especially Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Monday night, Tuesday night it is slower and might not happen every half hour, but they do have a lot of door guys. They don't call them bouncers because that isn't what they do. They don't have fights there. They basically make a presence and roam the perimeter of the building. They check for `.. 5 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 anything like trash and pick it up. Their main purpose is to check ID's. Even though they are allowed to, they don't allow anyone under age 21 past 9:00 p.m. They would rather not even deal with that. So up until a couple of months ago, they didn't know anything about a conditional use permit. They did file one for music on Sunday afternoons, which they were granted a few months ago. That's the only conditional use permit he thought they had. In learning the process here, the conditional use permit goes to the building, not to the business. Once that business leaves, somehow, and he didn't know how it fell through the crack, but somehow when businesses transitioned, they didn't know. If they had known they would have filed for it and if they weren't granted that, there`s no way they could financially succeed in this business closing at 10:00 p.m. He added that Mr. Smith probably has a more accurate count, but the location they are at has been at least three or four restaurants and no one has made it yet. As far as he knows, he was the first one because of the things he listed in the packet, that they stay open to 2:00 a.m. and serve food until 1 :00 a.m., not just bar food of fried shrimp and mozzarella, but they serve a full on menu. Someone can get a filet mignon dinner at 1 :00 a.m. Part of that is what has helped them succeed and build a good clientele of very respectable people. They get off at 1 1 :00 p.m. The media people don't get off until 1 1 :30 - 1 1 :45 p.m. and they get there for a late dinner. Sure, they could shut down at 10:00 p.m. and raise their prices like a lot of other high end restaurants on EI Paseo, but he honestly believed there are a lot of high end restaurants on EI Paseo and it was really refreshing to even the tourists walking around on a Sunday or Saturday afternoon to be able to walk in with their shorts, drink a beer and have a hamburger. He thought there was a stigma with EI Paseo, and it wasn't a bad one, it's the shopping mecca of the Coachella Valley like Rodeo Drive of Beverly Hills, but they still have people here who like to go to a casual place and not spend a lot of money. But the only way they can stay open and survive, and they would be more than willing to review their books with them in closed 6 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 �"' session and show them exactly what they do per hour from 10:00 p.m. until 2:00 a.m. It's a tremendous amount. From 10:00 p.m. on it is 45% of their annual income. That's an annual average. Thinking about taking away 45% of anyone's income away, something catastrophic has to happen and in their case, they would just have to shut down. He said many of their employees were at the meeting. They usually hire between 18 and 23 people, depending on the time of the year. They would al! be without jobs as well. He wasn't asking for sympathy for anyone that might lose their job, but that was something to think about. Per square foot, he would challenge anyone to beat their volume per square foot. They are a small place and they do a lot of volume there. The only reason they do that is because both of them are there, Jayme's there more than he is because he still has another job, but one of them if not both of them are there to make sure things are run correctly. Shutting � them down at 11 :00 p.m. he didn't think was the answer. He empathized with the neighbors, and he could say that with a true heart because he used to live right there. He used to live in one of �`"' the second or third closest ones to their restaurant when it was their restaurant. Noise from their restaurant was never an issue to him. They could say he is biased and they would be right. He's proud of what they've built. But honestly, he never heard noise. He would hear occasional laughter. What bothered him the most was waking up at 7:00 a.m. with the trash trucks and the gardeners facing EI Paseo that was right adjacent to their building. But he knew that was what he had to do to live next to EI Paseo. Commissioner Tschopp asked where Mr. Cook thought the undue noise was coming from. He asked if it was just normal noise or if it was something happening by a few screeching cars, people standing in the parking lot talking too much, and if he knew what the noise was and how he could maybe tone it down a bit. Mr. Cook said that was exactly what he was going to say. He noted that Commissioner Tschopp alluded to earlier that it might not be coming from their business. In rare cases it might not be. To be totally honest, they have a lot of people there and a lot of people that park along Lupine because it is a very close block to •.. 7 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 ; i their restaurant. He noticed something very interesting today. He � made a suggestion in passing to someone at the City months ago that maybe they should paint the curb red and no one could park there and that would take care of 90% of the problem. Because a lot of the problem is that people walk to the car and say goodbye to their friends and slam the car doors and take off. That is going to happen. But now the streets are al1 red curbed and in his opinion that would eliminate 90% of the problem right there. He was really happy to see that this morning. He didn't paint it and didn't know who did, but he was glad it was there. Commissioner Lopez asked Mr. Cook to tell them a little about their music and what type of music they have and thei� hours of ope�ation. Mr. Cook asked if he meant their Sunday afternoons. Commissioner Lopez clarified that he meant the normal entertainment that they have. Mr. Cook said it was just piped in music. They keep it down really '; low because they learned the hard way when they first opened. � They want it at a level to listen to the music but still talk. What happened was that the more people that were there, they would raise their voices and they kept raising, so after the first couple of months they keep the music down really low and they can't make out the words unless they know the song. Commissioner Lopez asked about any live entertainment. Mr. Cook said they only have live entertainment on Sunday afternoons and they are done by 9:00 p.m. Memorial Day weekend they kept it until 10:00 p.m. or 10:30 p.m., but that was a rare case because it was so busy and there were a lot of tourists from out of town. Commissioner Lopez asked if he was aware that one of the conditions was that live music has to stop at 9:00 p.m. Mr. Cook said yes and they usually do, sometimes 8:00 p.m. ti � 8 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 2004 � Referring to the Request to Speak Cards, Chairperson Jonathan asked if Mr. John Robert Allen wished to address the commission. MR. JOHN ALLEN, 72-790 Caliandra, stated that he is a resident of Palm Desert and he was in support of Roc's Firehouse Grille, and all well-run businesses across the Coachella Valley and the United States. He said it was unfortunate that people have complaints about the Firehouse Restaurant, one of which he understood to be noise. When he first heard this he chuckled, but then he gave it some thought and started to think that he should call Caltrans and have them shut down Haystack when he wasn't in the mood to hear cars. And then he thought he should call the Fire Chief of Palm Desert and have him move the fire station that's right down the street because he didn't really like the sound of that fire engine when it goes by. And then he really got to thinking and figured that he should go in front of the Planning Commission and request that the entire city of Palm Desert be shut down at 9:00 p.m. because the lights from the cars and businesses bother him. r.. But then he thought about it some more and remembered the following: he bought his home knowing that there's a main thoroughfare in front of it and that fire station was there way before him, and as for the city shutting down at 9:00 p.m., he wouldn't have moved to this beautiful city if it didn't have all the wonderful diversity it has. It is a wonderful city and he is proud to be a resident and call this place home. He has lived many places on this earth and this city is coming alive. It's rich in cultu�e and activities for both the young and old. Roc's Firehouse is a key element of this equation. He is a fireman in the valley and does go to the Firehouse. He goes there because it is a well-run business and he wanted to point out some positive points of this local mom and pop success story. It is clean, and when he says it's clean the obvious would be that it's clean. In addition to that he meant the following: there's a zero tolerance for drugs. He has seen that first hand. The bad person is walked right outside and told never to come back. Plain and simple. People are allowed to have their free speech and this is �.. 9 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 � America, but when it is showing signs of getting out of hand, the same thing, the person is told to leave and not to come back. It's safe. Yes, they have doormen and they might say that if they have doormen they must have trouble. If that were the case then every police department in America could down staff. The doormen, like security guards at airports, banks, malls and even the local police deter the problem from even entering the establishment. This is the only local bar and grill that he actually feels totally safe in. There are some places in Palm Desert that he wouldn't even step foot into. He wouldn't say their names, but he was sure they didn't go there either knowing what they all know about them. Like he said earlier, he chuckled that he was even here. He had to stand there and defend an American success story to plead to let them stay in business. They are an asset to this community. They ask how? They employ 20 residents. That in this day and age is pretty darn good. They've all seen the news and the � unemployment numbers. They are the only success story out of � this address. They make it. They opened a business, the American dream. They pay their taxes, they employ residents, they pump money into the local economy by using local vendors. They provide a great product for an economical price that people can afford. This is the place where people can go and feel safe, people know your name, people are happy, and ihe atmosphere is awesome. Kids love it and they even get a plastic fire helmet. They don't find this kind of place everyday. He personally knew people who have traveled 100 miles, not only to enjoy the valley's events and weather, but to come specifically to Roc's Firehouse Grille on EI Paseo. He knew both Roland and Jayme personally and knew their character. He didn't associate with bad people. He knew them to be honest, loyal, and hard working blue collar people. Shutting down a business or pulling a permit was not the answer tonight. If this were to happen, it would be a clear message that Palm Desert doesn't want to help in the American dream. They have two people who have scraped up everything they've had, used � every bit of elbow grease, and worked their butts off. And for � 10 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 � what? To echo what he had been saying throughout his entire presentation and that is to live the American dream. MR. JASON LOYA, 68-740 Hermosillo Road in Cathedral City, addressed the commission. He informed commission that he's a local fireman in the valley. As a patron of Roc's Firehouse Grille and as a part-time employee from the very beginning, this is an establishment that is clean, safe and well run. This isn't a place where he just goes with his buddies, this is a place when his family comes into town they want to go and visit and have a good time. He didn't know where they could grab an excellent meal, drinks and service after ten o'clock at night other than going to a fast food place and that wasn't the type of service or atmosphere he enjoys. So he asked them to please allow Roc's Firehouse Grille to continue to operate from 9:00 a.m. to 2:00 a.m. MS. JULIANNA CLARK, 74-050 Catalina Way, addressed the commission. She said that she is a teacher in the area and she just wanted to come up and say that Roc's Firehouse Grille is a safe, �,�, clean place where she can go with her family and friends. She can go there with her girlfriends late at night and feel safe. She can get a late night bite to eat. It's like no other place in the desert. She recommended not only to her friends to go there, but parents of the children she teaches. She also had a second job at a local restaurant here in town and they close down at nine o'clock and many times patrons will come in after they close and ask where they can go to get a late night bite to eat at 10:30 when the last of their customers were leaving and she was gladly willing to recommend Roc's Firehouse Grille, it's close and in Palm Desert and she didn't have to recommend that they leave Palm Desert and go to surrounding communities to get a late night bite to eat. The whole point is they wanted to keep them here in Palm Desert. So she asked for their consideration to approve the application to have their business open until 2:00 a.m. MR. JASON BIANCO, 73-506 Joshua Tree Street, addressed the commission. He said the commission had a copy of his letter. Basically, someone said it best. If they live in this area, they should expect to hear some noise. He has lived in Palm Desert for 22 years, a year and a half of it recently was spent on Shadow r.. 11 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 3 Mountain behind The Gardens, which is two blocks south of Roc's Firehouse. Every night he walks his dog and he walks past and down Lupine and he never heard any of these noises. That wasn't to say it didn't occur, he didn't hear any of these things. Living behind The Gardens, he hears the music they have piped in that plays through the parking lots, he hears car doors shutting all the time, and people talking as they walk going to have dinner there. They have live entertainment. But he never complained because he should expect that as the people live in this area should. They may have moved in before some of these establishments were there, but they did so knowing that this is an area zoned for entertainment, zoned for dining and there were going to be people there and eventually there are going to bars there open until two in the morning, not just the one. He thought it was a very unique thing and was the first of its kind on EI Paseo. To take that away from them would be a disgrace. It didn't make sense to him. Car doors shutting at night, of course people walk to their cars and go home. That is what's to be expected. ' MS. MICHELLE LANHAM, 78-330 Via Servilla in La Quinta, � addressed the commission. She said she has been going to the Firehouse since they opened and actually used to work there. She now works for Las Casuelas La Quinta and they all close at 1 1 :00 p.m. Working in a Mexican food restaurant, she didn't want to eat there, so a lot of them go to the Firehouse because they don't want to hear the noise of booming bass music, don't want to deal with the meat market atmosphere, they don't want to deal with any of that and want to go some place that is quiet and friendly where they can go and kick back and not be bothered by all those noises. For those of them that like to go there, she asked for approval of the application. MS. TRISH FAY, 54-521 Lupine Lane #3 in Palm Desert, said that she works at Robinson's May and sometimes they stay open until midnight and she likes to go to the Roc's Firehouse. She said she lives directly cater corner and is probably the closest person living nearby. She and the girls at work like to go there after work and not be bothered by anybody. Roland is always there. They have ' their doormen there, Jayme's there, everybody's friendly, they sit 12 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 . 2004 �.. down and eat, they have fun, they talk, they laugh and it doesn't seem out of hand. They aren't screaming at each other and she would hate to see it close down because she didn't really like working until midnight and didn't want to go to Denny's any more. They like to go to the Firehouse. She said she would appreciate it if they would keep it open and she lives right across the way and she, too, like Roland and Jayme, is more irritated at seven o'clock in the morning by the trash man and the gardener with his blower right outside her window and sometimes she does work until midnight and her day off could be any day of the week and she wants to see them open until two o'clock every day of the week. Chairperson Jonathan asked Ms. Fay as objectively as possible to tell them what her experience was with the noise level between 9:00 p.m. or 10:00 p.m. and 2:00 a.m. To be honest with them, Ms. Fay said that when she's not there and is at home, she's watching tv and she doesn't hear that. What she hears is maybe sometimes people rent out the condos where �, they live to people that don't normally live there and they run through her parking lot screaming and yelling, throwing beer bottles and she didn't know how many times she had to go out in their own parking lot and sweep up beer bottles. And young kids, she didn't know what unit they were staying in, she tried to find out, but she was more troubled by that and she didn't really hear anything coming from Roc's. Chairperson Jonathan asked for confirmation that she didn't hear noise, patrons, cars, music. Ms. Fay said no, what she hears is her tv and kids running through their parking lot which is directly across from their parking lot. She was honestly telling them the truth. If she was ever bothered, she would simply tell them she couldn't even hear her tv and they would totally turn it down, but that hasn't happened. She can hear her tv more than she can hear anything there except for the kids or the gardeners. MR. JONNY ANDREASEN, 45-421 Lupine Lane #3, said he's in the very first building in the complex called Sandroc. He has been r... 13 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 2004 ! out here since 1973 and he actually used to ride his bike where Roc's Firehouse is because it was nothing but dirt because EI Paseo 30 years ago was nothing but dirt. So he would think that with progress and time with all these beautiful buildings that are getting put up and these businesses coming in they see a nice restaurant come in and the next year they are out and something else is open, then vacant, then open and they have to expect with the growth going on in this whole community with the housing going crazy that what used to be nothing but sand is now houses and there's going to be more traffic, more noise and more congestion. He thought the city needed revenue like that so that they all help each other and Roc's Firehouse is a great place to go because he himself is a personal business owner on EI Paseo and it is nice to just get off work, get off work at eight or nine o'clock sometimes, sometimes six, he never knows, and just go over, have a casual bite to eat and he can walk home and walk to work. That's how close he lives and he appreciated the owners, the place and the establishment is very well run and there was rarely any hassle there. If they hear anything, it is probably someone out in the parking lot that may not even have anything to do with Roc's Firehouse. Chairperson Jonathan asked him about his experience with the noise level in the 10:00 p.m. until 2:00 a.m. time frame. Mr. Andreason said it was going to be cars that are going around. Harley Davidsons. He asked if they had ever heard their motorcycles. Well, that is the most obnoxious thing, so if it is two guys cruising down EI Paseo on their Harley's, how is to say that is from Roc's Firehouse? So there is going to be noise with the growth and the noise volume that people are complaining about is really very minimal. From time to time they will hear a glass break or someone dumping out the trash from the evening's business. He thought that was to be expected with a business and growth. He has Picanha's cooking steak at ten o'clock in the morning and sometimes he doesn't want to wake up at ten o'clock in the morning smelling a bunch of barbequed lamb. But he wasn't 14 MINUTES PALM DESERT P�ANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1. 2004 �.. complaining about that either and was hoping it all worked out for everybody because it's a great place. MR. CHADWICK BRADBURY, 76-784 Ascot Circle in Palm Desert, said he is also an attorney in town at 75-140 St. Charles Place Suite B. He stated that they represent Roc's Firehouse Grille, but he wasn't present in that context. He said one thing that troubled him is that this conditional use permit is not a recorded instrument on the property. What troubled him about that is they have these folks come in, they purchase the property, they incur costs, substantial costs remodeling it, upgrading it, they rely on being able to run a bar until two in the morning. There's nothing due diligence that they could have determined that there were going to be restrictions on the hours. He suggested to eliminate this sort of thing from happening in the future, the City could implement a policy where the conditional use permits are to be recorded on the building establishment since it is a covenant more or less on the property that runs with the land. That way `, someone that comes in looking to purchase a property, a restaurant for example, through their due diligence could find out before they invest all their time, effort, etc., that there may be a potential problem. They could then make an informed business decision at that time as to whether or not this would be a wise investment. In this situation, if this wouldn't have happened, what brings us here now wouldn't have happened if they had done that and require it as one of the conditions on the usage permit to the issuance of the permit. The cost could be borne by the applicant, gets recorded, it is a covenant that runs with the land, and no more problems. Chairperson Jonathan asked if the City Attorney had any comments on that. Mr. Hargreaves stated that typically CUP's are not recorded. Typically none of the land use entitlements are �ecorded unless there is a development agreement and that is standard throughout California. Part of due diligence typically is to go in and talk to the Planning Department and find out what kind of a zone you are operating in, what the restrictions are, and what potentially can happen around you in terms of �.. 15 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 � development. Mr. Drell said staff routinely gets zoning compliance � requests from people; from lenders, from insurance companies, from investors. He would agree that when a business comes in they fill out a Certificate of Use and it would probably be a good idea when they fill that out and Planning signs it that they attach to it if there is a conditional use permit that they identify the CUP on that and attach those conditions of approval for those people who aren't professional real estate investor/developer types; it would probably be a good idea if they could do that. MR. TONY TERRAZAS, 79-235 Ashley Place in La Quinta, addressed the commission. He said he manages one of the valley's museum's here. He thought that Roc's establishment is a good, clean place to go to. He emphasized that a lot of civil servants patronize that place. There are a lot of officers there, fire men and wanted them to keep it going. MR. JOHN RICHARD SCHUMAKER, 73-501 42nd Avenue #H63, addressed the commission. He stated that he is the resident chef ' at Roc's Firehouse Grille. He thanked everyone for their wonderful � words about the food. He said that on occasion he has worked for Roland and Jayme as part of their security team that they have there. In short, saying that there has been a problem with some of the noise and security problems, not so much as everyone has been led to believe. They do run a very clean, very safe environment for people to come in and enjoy themselves. To limit their hours of business or restrict them in that sense would not only be detrimental to the employees that work there, but also to him by not allowing him to fully handle everything that needs to be done in the restaurant business. He has worked in this community all his life. He is a full-time resident, was born, school and raised here. To him, Jayme and Roland are part of what he would want to be. They make everyone feel as part of their family there and he is very proud and very loyal to them. As far as security, he has seen on occasion that there isn't as many problems as everyone would like to believe. He has not seen too many of the noise conditions. On occasion, yes, they were going to have a lot of people running in and out of the establishment, especially a little later at night. That is just the 16 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 �r.. nature of the beast and what happens when they have this type of business. But they are very fair, very just and good people and they deserve to have this chance to stay in business the way that they have been so far. MS. ANDREA HIGGINS, 45-350 Sunset Lane, addressed the commission. She said she didn't want to be redundant or mundane, but she wanted to hit two aspects that she personally and professionally wanted to point out. The first one was being a young professional herself, there are only so many establishments out here in the Coachella Valley that they like to obtain and patron. Being out here five years, she has seen the increase in population. She believed there was a survey about two years ago that said daily about 18+ people move here and to have a professional, fun, young environment like Roc's Firehouse is a great place and a clean, fun place for them to go to. Next, she works for a very large hospitality company out here. Probably the biggest employer of the Coachella Valley. Her personal job is activities director working with different venues and avenues throughout the desert. ,�, She herself has had two different events at Roc's Firehouse and the professionalism of Jayme and Roland together is top notch. She has worked with totally different venues, whether it be an art gallery or Saks Fifth Avenue and they are very professional, they follow up and are willing to conform to any perfectionist ideas that she might have. Her point was to let them know that any statutes, any conformities they give them to keep their establishment open until 2:00 a.m. she was sure they would do with a smile. She said that Roland and Jayme are very respected out here in the desert, not just for owning Roc's Firehouse, but by being parents and friends and firemen and just fun people to hang around with. She hoped they would keep it open until 2:00 a.m. MR. DAVE HOFFMAN, 45-775 #1 1 Ocotillo Drive in Palm Desert, addressed the commission. He said he is an employee of Roc's Firehouse and has been there almost four months. Before that he was a regular for two years. He has lived in the desert for nine years and worked in the service industry. Throughout those nine years there hasn't been a place that has created an atmosphere for � 17 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 people late night who work in the service industry to go to relax, hang out, have good food and feel like they're part of what's going on. It's like a family atmosphere. It's almost like you're having a family barbeque. You're there with your friends, out of towners come in and the staff makes them feel welcome, has fun with them and everybody feeds off of each other because they know a lot of the people. Through Roland and Jayme's friends and the business they create, everyone feels comfortable there and late night people get off work at 1 1 :00 or 1 1 :30 people can go there and hang out, have well priced cocktails, the music isn't overly loud so you can actually sit and have a conversation and not worry about yelling at each other compared to other restaurants that have late night hours. Personally, he enjoyed being there and was thankful that he has been able to join the staff. He has a great time with friends, the owners and everyone else that he encounters on a daily basis. Also, a lot of his living he makes between the hours of 1 1 :00 p.m. and 2:00 a.rn. with all the other service industry people that he � has met in the nine years he's worked in the valley. It created a � very good feeling for people to go there and have fun. He hoped they would allow them to continue serving the people who are looking for that and making new business through the other people who hear about them. He hoped to see them there sometime soon. MS. CAROL DEAN ROSS, 73-405 EI Paseo Suite 31 D, addressed the commission. She said her letter and ad were in Roc's package. She is the next door neighbor on EI Paseo, the retail store right next door. She has been on EI Paseo about ten years and was looking for a new location and would drive by all hours, morning and night, and would see the clientele there. She was lured to that location when she saw the patrons. As soon as the location came up, the sign wasn't even in the window five minutes and she scooped it up and she was very happy to be there and marketing herself right next to Roc and Jayme and what they had going there and what they were building. She scooped it up, signed a three-year lease and was very happy to be there. The first thing she did was run that ad to come see her in the new location, see the boys next door and they 18 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 �... are so happy that Roc and Jayme were open to letting them kind of link onto their image. She really worked hard to market themselves to that clientele and on Sunday afternoons they are open, they open the doors, the music pipes in and it makes a great kind of vacation atmosphere for them. Everyone is happy to be there. The staff is so helpful and friendly. They send the guys over there while the women shop and they have created a little hub. They come in in the mornings around 8:30-9:00 a.m. and it is spotless and immaculate. There is never any left over residue of anything that has gone on the night before except they have people coming in all day saying they sat there all night looking at a top in her window and they had to have it. Her business feeds right off of theirs. Jayme and Roc have been very professional and easy to deal with. They have been great neighbors. They did a promotion together and they came down and got a conditional use permit so they could have everything done just right. They couldn't just open the doors and do a party. Everything had to be done with the I's v, dotted and the T's crossed. They followed through on everything. They came up with an idea and Roc and Jayme just followed through on everything to make it by the letter. Everything came up great and everyone is happy. She would be so disappointed if after all this time being on EI Paseo she made this big move and if they were gone, it would just be like the air was out of the balloon. It would be really sad. They really really focused on being next to them and being part of their clientele and making it a package deal. She asked that they be allowed to stay open. MS. KRISTIN KING, 46-315 Ocotillo #A in Palm Desert, addressed the commission. She stated that she has worked on EI Paseo for eight years. She has never seen an establishment last where they are at except this one. She actually works in a restaurant on EI Paseo and she could probably speak for half of her staff that comes and joins everyone after they get off work at 1 1 :30-12:00 because they can't eat at her restaurant. They go to Roc's and enjoy a late night dinner, a drink and hang out and talk about their night. She said it is a very successful business, she's really proud of them. She enjoys it herself and she hoped they approved their application. r. 19 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 � MS. SUSAN BURTON THOMPSON, 44-040 Superior Court in Indian Wells, addressed the commission. She noted that there are so many good restaurants in this area and probably per capita they have more great places to eat. But this one is unique. She and her husband and many of their friends have great passion for the McCallum Theater, films, opera and when they get out of the McCallum or out of the opera or a late night movie, there's no place to go where they can sit quietly and have a steak and salad unless they go home or go to a fast food place. She asked the commission to keep them open for all the theater patrons in this town. They would appreciate it. MR. MIKE CUBA, President of the EI Paseo Village Homeowners Association, 73-484 Shadow Mountain Drive. With him at the podium was HARRIETTE GOODALL of 45-418 Lupine Lane and PATRICIA FARR of 45-430 Lupine Lane. Mr. Cuba explained to the commission that these ladies live within 50 yards of the establishment. He himself owns a couple of properties there. He wasn't there to complain, he was there to point out that it has r been difficult for these ladies for the last two years. He didn't even � know if they had sent any official notices or complaints to the City or to Mr. Drell or any of the people involved, but he was there to state something simple. Last time he was there before Council a restaurant named Kacoon's made this same almost identical application. They went out of business. They went out of business because they claimed they needed to have more music and more activity out there in their outside area. He believed it was either the Council or the Planning Commission that turned down that application from that lady because she had a lot of problems right there in that area. He didn't know how many problems Roc's has. He likes Roc's and think it's a great place. He thought it was clean and that they run a good business. But he also wanted to ask a simple question. What is the City's standing on smoking in public where food and beverage is served? He asked if there was someone here who could answer that. Chairperson Jonathan said they weren't going to get into that issue. $ 20 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 � Mr. Cuba said that what he was saying was they are inviting them to stay open until two o'clock in the morning. Chairperson Jonathan informed him that the City has a Code Compliance division if that is an issue (speaking of the outdoor smoking policy►. Mr. Cuba said he wasn't there to make complaints. They were there to say they are against this issue. As homeowners they don't wish to have a business that is going to be open until two o'clock in the morning that invites strangers into their neighborhood who park on their lawns, who park in their driveways, who he has found in their swimming pool and jacuzzi area just wandering. He wasn't there to say that they are from Roc's, he was just saying he wants to keep the neighborhood the way it has been. He's lived there for 20 years and has seen a lot of changes. He's been to the Council many times before from the days of them building The Gardens right down to the last time he was here at City Hall, Kacoon's restaurant had made a similar request and was turned down. They were asking that this ` application be turned down at this time. Ms. Farr said she has owned her town house since 1990. She moved to the desert from Newport Beach because of a serious car accident that she was in and her husband was killed. She needed to have a little time to recover. Unfortunately, when the liquor license was issued she wasn't here because she was in a business environment in another area, so if she had known that they were going to issue a liquor license, she would have definitely turned it down. Secondly, she personally has called the police twice because of fights in front of her home. Guys fighting that were roaming up Lupine Lane screaming and yelling and got into a fight. Their next door neighbor Allen acivally went out and had to break up the fight. That has happened twice. She called the police twice and didn't know why it wasn't on any record. She is an entrepreneur herself. She didn't want anything bad to happen to these people, but they have motorcycles screaming up and down Lupine Lane until three o'clock in the morning. They `.. 21 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 have trucks barreling up and down that street and she wasn't an old fogey, but she does have a medical company and has patients and she needed to be able to rest so she can get up in the morning and do her job as an entrepreneur. She didn't want to hurt this young man, but there had to be a little give and take here because it wasn't fair to them. She thanked the commission. Ms. Goodall informed commission that she has been a homeowner in EI Paseo Villas for 20 years. The thing that really bothered her wasn't the food serving, it is the noise factor and the people who come into her driveway. She is right on Lupine and has a town house there and they throw up. This is from a bar that has stayed open very late. She didn't care what time they said they closed before, they are still coming out very late. It was after 12:00 and 1 :00 a.m. at night. She asked what would happen when it closes at two in the morning? That meant at 3:00 or 3:30 and she couldn't get any rest. She couldn't keep the windows open or do anything. She didn't dare even go out on her patio at night because of the element that is strolling around her area and it all comes from the opening of Roc's Firehouse, because that is the only one that's open. And they are very noisy. She felt the noise and the music had to be turned down at night. They couldn't even rest and that was the truth. Her student that goes to the College of the Desert is frightened to death to come home at ten o'clock at night because of what is going on past there. That is the truth. She was all for a restaurant there. That was fine. But that was very hard on all of them. She thanked the commission. MR. ROD CORTEZ addressed the commission. He said he wanted to respond to the element that attends Roc's. He said he works in San Bernardino and is a Deputy District Attorney and he prosecutes hard core gang members. Chairperson Jonathan asked him for an address for the record. He said Cathedral City. a Chairperson Jonathan asked for a specific address, either home or office. 22 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMtSSION JUNE 1 . 2004 �.. He replied 314 North Mountain View Avenue. He said he has to be selective in the locations that he goes to because of the work he is in and to hear that there are these types of people roaming the streets, he wouldn't go to Roc's if that was true. As a number of people have already said, this is a safe environment that he, his wife and their friends go to all the way until two in the morning. He thought it would be a travesty for people like himself and their friends if that was taken away because it is a good environment. It isn't a loud environment where they are screaming at other people. The only time he heard a scream was when his wife was yelling at him, but that was something completely unrelated. So what he was there for was to support this business. He thought it was a good business for young people, for professional people and for people that are not as young as they once were. He thanked them. MR. JIM GREULICH, President of the Homeowners Association of Sandrac, 45-405 #13 Lupine �ane, addressed the commission. He ,,r„ said they've been there since 1987. He felt like Johnny Carson in a show many years ago. He had a bunch of people who came. There was very little of his original remarks that haven't been stated more effectively. The subject came up that it got loud enough in there that they had a problem with people hearing the music. That happens. Someone else stated that he could remember when Sandroc was built in 1972 and it is residential. EI Paseo Village has been there almost that long. It is residential two blocks backing up that entire area. Someone got up and said that people move in and know there is a restaurant down there. Didn't the restaurant realize there is a residential area behind there? He raised a question about that. The only thing that their group has been concerned about is the extension of the hours. They haven't talked about the quality of food. Their written statement said nothing about the clientele except that the process gets noisy, particularly one, when they're leaving; two, there are times when the group gets boisterous. Voices do carry. \r. 23 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 Many of their owners have been there since 1972 - 1973. They are older. They enjoy this place. Most of their owners rent. They are dependent for income on the snow birds who are also elderly in a residential area who like to have their windows and doors open and sit on their patios in the evening and it gets kind of difficult to do that. If it stopped at 1 1 :00 p.m., he was sure they could probably live with it. They have been living with it. But to extend it on until two in the morning didn't make very good sense in an area that is that strongly residential. He hoped they would review their thinking and their application and take a look at what might be the most fair way to do things. He thanked the commission. MS. ROBIN SWANSON, 44-245 East Sundown Crest in La Quinta, addressed the commission. She informed commission that she is the manager of Carol Dean's on EI Paseo, which was right next door to Roc's Firehouse. She works every Sunday. She's in that store by herself. They have glass doors that open onto their patio. When they have the band going, they have total, complete � standing room only out there and she has her glass door closed, � she is barely even aware they are out there. And she is right there off the patio with nothing but glass doors separating her from them. She just found it hard to believe that the noise could be that much different at night versus a live band in the middle of the afternoon with cars and people all over the place. They are great for her business and she wanted to see them stay. She thought they were a tremendous group of people. She thanked them. MR. DAN BALL, 42-650 Melanie Place, stated that address is KESQ Channel 3 in case they didn't know that. He said he had a lot to say. He didn't take a lot of notes and was going to wing it just like he does his broadcasts. He said he wanted to rebut a few things mentioned by a few of the people which he was sure the Council was aware of when it comes to real estate law. People . that buy those homes, even though that maybe zoned residential, they understand when they get a TDS transfer disclosure statement that within two miles (this was two blocks) it is zoned commercial. They know moving there that there could be noise from restaurants and businesses. That is a known. He has a real 24 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 �.. estate license so he knows that is a fact. That's the number one thing. Number two, he wanted to talk about Roland and Jayme. He met Roland about two and a half years ago. Right after 9/1 1 he did a story on him. He was fortunate enough to meet him is what he should say because he left for ground zero the day after it happened and put his restaurant on hold, lost a lot of money, was barely able to get it off the ground when he got back, and he met this man and said he was going to help him to get his restaurant back and get back to work as a Palm Springs fire fighter. So they did many pieces on him and he became good friends with him and Jayme. The restaurant then has become somewhat of a haven for local Palm Desert people who work for a living, who work long hours and need a place to unwind. These are fire fighters, they are policemen, they are deputy district attorneys, they are news people who get off at 1 1 :30, these are not gang bangers, they aren't people puking in your yard. If that happens, he guessed all they could say is they are sorry, but one bad apple shouldn't mess ,� up the bunch. Isn't that what your grandparents told you? That's what his grandparents told him. He didn't think the developers of Point Happy in La Quinta behind the Beer Hunter are getting less than 5600,000 to S800,000 for those homes and he was sure someone on occasion walked out of the Beer Hunter on occasion and pukes. So, his whole point to his ranting and raving is if progression is what this city wants, it's where the desert's going, the average median age moving to Palm Desert is now 37 or 35 according to the last report he did. That's the clientele that goes there. These are people with 555,000 to S 100,000 incomes that are 35 years or younger. They need a place to unwind and go. The place has been open for the last two years until 2:00 a.m., not 1 1 :00 p.m., and they have been dealing with it, not 11 :00 p.m. So he thought to put a man out of business who he considered a hero who did what he did for 1 1 days at ground zero and what he does every day for the Palm Springs Fire Department and the place he provides for people to go and hang out in a comfortable environment unti) 2:00 am., where they can get a late night, inexpensive menu when they don't make much money, where they can hang out with friends who don't get � 25 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 � off until 1 1 :30 p.m., and where every other bar is closed down or has gang bangers like Bananaz or Zelda's. Those are places they don't want to hang out at. This is a place they can go where they can talk to their friends at the normal conversational level, the music isn't that loud and he has been in the back parking lot to get his vehicle and he can barely hear it, so if he is in that back parking lot directly behind to the south, he couldn't imagine that the condos could hear it. So again, he asked the commission to reconsider leaving the establishment open until two. It has already been there for two years and obviously if they pulled it back to 1 1 :00 p.m., they've heard from the people who work there and make a living working there, it will pretty much ruin them because that is the bulk of their business, that two or three hour period. So if they pull that they will not only be destroying the business for Jayme and Roland, but for all the workers that are employed there, not to mention a very large crowd of individuals that not only work and live in Palm Desert, but just enjoy going there and meeting friends. He urged them to reconsider and leave their extension until 2:00 a.m. Chairperson Jonathan asked if the applicant had any rebuttal comments. Mr. and Mrs. Cook came forward. Mr. Cook said that Jayme reminded him of something she wanted to bring up and as he looked through the letters he submitted, he wanted to mention a coupfe of things as well. Carol Dean mentioned that she took advantage of moving next door to them and there is a brand new restaurant across from them, Picanha's that used to be the old Mario's Sing While You Dine, and there is a letter of support from the owner of that restaurant as well, Picanha's. Without even trying, they work off of each other. The owner of Picanha's said his first season is beyond his expectations for a one-year restaurant and that's because, it's the same as Carol Dean was saying, they have a lot of guests that sit on the patio and they will ask about the new place and they will tell them and then they go there the next day and try it out. So there is a lot of working together that businesses do have here. � 26 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 2004 �.. And they do have a lot of residents that live in Sandroc and the condo complexes south of them that do come to Roc's Firehouse. In fact on Sunday there were several residents from several different addresses in that complex that were there. Once he found out who they were he asked what was going on and if there were any issues he could take care of. The guy asked what he was talking about. He said he heard something about that and the only complaint was that he didn't like hearing the trash cans being emptied into the dumpster at three o'clock in the morning. Something as simple as that he would have the dishwasher do that at 10:00 a.m. when everyone is awake. Just little fixes like that. The red curb all the way down Lupine will address a lot of the issues that the residents have here. They don't park there or if they do, they get towed, which is fine with him. If anybody, all of their people will attest to this, if anybody causes trouble there, he is the first one to cut it off. They don't allow any misbehaving, vomiting on people's yards, and certainly not parking on their � lawns. That was simply not true. Some of the things that Jayme wanted him to discuss is a common thing they see in the media now, 40 people per day are moving into the valley from surrounding areas and they are just growing. He was thankful, they need the economy and are getting busier and busier as a valley and everyone is going through growing pains. He just saw something today about North Shore and Mecca growing like crazy with housing. That's just what is going to happen. Mrs. Cook noted that one of the gentlemen bought their places in Sandroc over 20 years ago and they want it to stay the same. She thought if any of the commissioners had been in this desert for the last 20 years like she has, nothing is the same. She was the only car driving down the street in August or maybe not the only one, but it felt like it. Times will be different again in 20 years and hopefully a thriving economy. They chose to put their business in Palm Desert because they wanted to be able to grow with this city. Mr. Cook said that was all they had to say and asked if there were any questions. There were none. � 27 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 i Chairperson Jonathan closed the public hearing and asked for commission comments. Commissioner Finerty thanked everyone for coming out to the meeting. It really made a difference when they have participation by the public. She was really touched by the testimony given by so many people telling them what diligent, professional, rule-abiding citizens Jayme and Roc are. It appeared to her that they established quite a following of people that appreciate a clean, safe environment, reasonably priced, good food, that they can go to in the later hours. She was perplexed by the fact that people have spoken that live nearby Roc's that aren't bothered by the noise and yet they have a few people that are bothered by the noise. She noticed that it seemed to her that they have a very respectful group of people that frequent Roc's and they are law abiding. That is the impression that she is getting. It seemed to her that if it is an issue of emptying the trash late at night, they are more than amenable to changing that and trying to work with the community. That is just the kind of feeling she had from listening to the testimony. � She befieved that Roc's should be allowed to stay open until 2:00 a.m. � She thought they had quite a service and she was delighted to have them in the city. She thought it was a good, old-fashioned business and the way things used to be and she was going to try it herself. Commissioner Carnpbell noted that she has been in business on EI Paseo for 1 7 years and she has been one of the really first people that have stayed on EI Paseo. People would come to her store and say "Oh, you're still here." So in this location she has seen many many changes and she has never been to Roc's, but she was very glad to know that they are open until late at night because she felt there was nowhere in the city where they can go ahead and eat after ten o'clock and when you work all day and have a cocktail and don't feel like preparing dinner, you want to find some place to go. But that's besides the point. She has seen people there and as long as she doesn't hear that they have amplified music right now, it's just soft music playing, and they are right, the louder the music, people will talk louder. If they have soft music, people will go ahead and still talk, they can hear each other and be very quiet. They have had problems there before with the parking and the ` people making noises and so forth. But that was our growing community. 28 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 2004 � The more we grow, the more noise we're going to have and there's more traffic on the street and prosperity. That is what they want. She is also one of those mom and pop businesses and they have to make each other grow and she would come in to see them and was in favor of them staying open until two o'clock. Commissioner Lopez thanked everyone for coming out. It is a topic that has a lot of passion to it. He thought it was an opportunity for those who support the restaurant itself and those that have difficulties with it to say their piece. He encouraged those individuals that have had problems to use all of the outlets they have available to them, with Code Compliance, with the ability to communicate with the City as it pertains to problems they are having if it is an item that can't be worked out with the owner. His suggested the first thing to do when having difficulty with a neighbor or a business is to go to them and say they need some assistance and tell them what is going on. Normally that will take care of the problem. Obviously through what they had before them were limited complaints, either through the Police Department or police records they have available to them, as well as testimony this evening. �. He applauded Mr. and Mrs. Cook tor what they brought to the desert. He thought it was a great addition to the desert itself. He has a lot of folks that he knows and worked with in the past who patronized this restaurant and they did it because it is open a little bit later than ihe other ones and was obviously one where they could go and enjoy a good meal and a drink after work. He also encouraged them to stay within the guidelines of what they wanted to do and that was make sure the noise factors are such that they don't disturb the neighbors and he knew that all of them that are in the hospitality business, they look to their associates and employees, they are the ones that make that happen, too. If the associates are hanging around in the parking lot after work having conversations, then they need to make sure that doesn't happen so it doesn't bother anybody. He wasn't saying it did, but every once in a while it does. He appreciated everyone coming out and thought the conditions of approval and amendment was appropriate. He asked that the one condition be added regarding all the conditions that go along with the property itself. � 29 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 Commissioner Tschopp said there were two complaints in three years and no complaints in 18 months. Obviously in a neighborhood, people live right around the same restaurant and have a different perspective on the noise level and who is the cause of the noise. Also, the business has been operating for three years until 2:00 a.m. He also believed that the exception is warranted. The staff conditions and the addition of the no parking on Lupine hopefully would go a long way in abating some of the noise, real or perceived. And he thought the owner, Mr. Cook and his wife, were very aware of the seriousness of the nature and he was sure they would be even more diligent in making sure the noise levels and the patrons of their establishment would keep the noise down. In that regard, he had a couple of questions to staff on some of the conditions when they got to that part. Chairperson Jonathan concurred with his fellow commissioners and wanted to thank everyone, in favor or opposed, for taking their time this evening to come out. It really helped them to do their job better. He was impressed and thought Mr. Cook should be by those who obviously respect him and everything he has done on a personal level and on a business level. No matter what happened tonight, he thought that was the most important thing that he should take away with him. All the people who believe enough in him to take their time this evening in support. That is quite a testament. He liked to believe that once in a while the good guys win. He said he had some suggestions regarding the conditions of approval. He personally didn't see a need for condition of approval number two that required for this CUP to come back to the commission annually. He thought the process works in a way that if people experience problems, they are going to let the City know and a conditional use permit is just that, it's conditional upon the applicant following the standards that are set. So he suggested eliminating Condition No. 2. He also suggested that they modify Condition No. 3. He thought asking the applicant to conduct routine patrol of the parking lot and area around the restaurant was reasonable, but not specify that it occur every half an hour. He would hate to be a hall monitor here and make sure that sorneone is doing that every half hour. So he suggested eliminating the words, "at least every half hour" from the condition. � � � 30 MINUTES PALM DESERT PtANNING COMMISSiON JUNE 1 . 2004 � The final item he wanted to mention is that he has seen enough of the applicant here tonight to know that if there are legitimate problems, that if the residents talk to him or talk to the Planning Commission, those problems will be resolved. Like many of them, he has been here many years, 25 years in his case, and he loves this city and it listens to its citizens. So if there are problems, he firmly believed they would be resolved. And that is part of the reason why he was in favor of the application. He asked for a motion. Action: Commissioner Lopez said he would move for approval with the addition of the previous conditions that go along with the site itself, and he understood that Chairperson Jonathan woufd also like to consider deleting Condition No. 2 and modify Condition No. 3. Chairperson Jonathan clarified that the modification to Condition No. 3 would be to strike the words "at least every half hour". Commissioner Finerty seconded that motion. Commissioner Tschopp said he would also like to talk about Condition `,,, No. 5, the noise survey to be conducted. He would like staff to tell him that they would be able to differentiate whether the noise is a boom box or a Harley Davidson coming from this establishment. That was his first question. The second question was it says the applicant is to pay for overtime cost of Code Compliance staff. Two questions there would be if that was routinely done and if staff could give the Planning Commission and the applicant some estimate on what that overtime cost might run. Regarding question number one, Mr. Drell said that this is kind of a unique noise survey. Normally noise is measured as an average over a period of time. He was sure in this situation that it is very very quiet and the problem is the intermittent, exceptional noise and what the noise monitor does is whenever he sees a bleep, he tries to annotate it. He reminded the commission that when they had the noise survey for Ruth's Chris, basically when they got the graph they saw little notes each time . there was a blip and he identified the noise such as helicopter over head, motorcycle going down Portola. So the direction would be to specifically identify what the source of the noise is so it can be useful to figure out if it is a problem that we have control over and how to fix it. � 31 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 � i The issue of overtime in terms of monitoring, the problem is sending a � City employee out there at one in the morning and how they actually pay for that overtime. He asked Mr. Smith if he figured out what that might be. Mr. Smith said not an actual cost. Mr. Drell said that to monitor until one in the morning they have to stay up until one in the morning. Commissioner Tschopp asked if it would be a reasonable and appropriate cost, knowing that City staff is going to be paid and adding that overtime. Mr. Drell said it could be S 100 or 5200. Commissioner Tschopp asked if that was for a one-month period or six-month period. Mr. Drell said they would just do it and it would be done periodically on a one-day basis and figure out when the most active nights are. Until they started noting some sort of pattern of a problem, they probably wouldn't do it more than once a month. So it might be a couple hundred dollars a month. And he would say that if each time they start doing it there is consistently no problem, then they would probably do it less and less often. Or in response to complaints and then they would focus on it. What they could do since the paying of it is a City issue and not one that is subject to the general public's interest, it is something staff could ' come back to the commission with as a miscellaneous item to report back on specifically what it would be. ""� Commissioner Tschopp said his point is they don't know if the applicant is the one causing the noise, yet they were going to make him pay a special fee to have it monitored to see if it is his fault. He wanted to see that modified to say that the applicant pay a reasonable fee if it is ascertained that he is the cause of the noise. Mr. Drell said basically until they determine that he is causing a problem, he wouldn't be assessed a fee. Commissioner Finerty thought that part should be deleted about the applicant to pay for the overtime costs. Until there is a problem that is directly traced to the applicant, she thought it was an unfair condition. Chairperson Jonathan asked if there was a suggestion to delete that final sentence of Condition No. 5. Another option would be to cap it off to a certain amount or another option would be that he would only pay if it is determined that there is a noise problem, which they might want to define. Commissioner Finerty didn't know if they had ever done this before where a condition like this was imposed from the beginning. � 32 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 . 2004 i... Generally they wait until there are problems and if there are problems, they bring the applicant back. This to her is unprecedented and actually she didn't know why they had Condition No. 5. She could go back to several instances whether it was Ruth's Chris or Southwest Community Church and this was never a condition of approval at the beginning. She thought that it would be fair given the respect that the applicants have to give them a chance before they start hitting them over the head with these conditions that she thought were burdensome. Chairperson Jonathan asked if she was suggesting the deletion in its entirety of Condition No. 5. Commissioner Finerty said yes, because the purpose of a conditional use permit that they are granting is if there are problems, there are mechanisms in place to take action. She thought having it in here was premature at best. Commissioner Tschopp pointed out that there is a noise ordinance, there are nuisance laws and they should let those be enforced. Chairperson Jonathan asked if there was an agreement with the maker ,,�, of the motion and seconder to modify the motion to add the deletion of Condition No. 5. Commissioner Lopez modified his motion to delete Condition No. 5 in addition to the other modifications. Commissioner Finerty stated that she was the seconder and she was in agreement. Chairperson Jonathan summarized that they were talking about approval of the application with the addition of a condition that affirms the earlier conditions and then deleting Condition No. 2, modifying Condition No. 3 to strike the words "at least every half hour" verbiage, and to delete Condition No. 5. Commission concurred. Chairperson Jonathan called for the vote. Motion carried 5-0. It was moved by Commissioner Lopez, seconded by Commissioner Finerty, adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 2273, approving CUP 93-7 Amendment #3, subject to conditions as amended. Motion carried 5-0. IX. MISCELLANEOUS � 33 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 3 � Chairperson Jonathan asked Vice Chairperson Tschopp to lead the commission in the discussion of Item A because he had a conflict of interest and would be abstaining. He excused himself from the room. A. Case Nos. TT 30438 and PP/CUP 02-03 - DESTINATION DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, Applicant Request for review of grading plan for golf course area at Stone Eagle (The Crest) per Condition No. 5 of City Council Resolution No. 02-137. Mr. Smith explained that as part of the approval of The Crest project, now Stone Eagle, the conditions of approval required review of the grading plans by Planning Commission before the issuance of a grading permit. The commission had before them in the nine pages of grading plans the proposal relative to the golf course. By way of background, he said the golf course is going to occupy approximately 200 acres of the 640-acre section. Grading activity will disturb approximately 86 acres. The plan checker on the grading plan assured him that this is the � minimum necessary in order to achieve the golf course design to provide � the fairways, tee boxes, the greens and other ancillary areas. The golf course architect was working with City landscape staff and they will be pursuing the implementation of Condition 12 which requires the landscaping of the golf course to be approved through the City's landscape committee. Staff's recommendation was that the commission receive and file the grading plan relating to the golf course area. Staff would be bringing back to the commission in the next few weeks the grading plan for the residential community at the base of the hill. He asked for any questions. There were no questions. Action: It was moved by Commissioner Finerty, seconded by Commissioner Campbell, by minute motion, to receive and file the grading plan for the golf course area of the Stone Eagle (Crest) project. Motion carried 4-0-0- 1 (Chairperson Jonathan abstained). Chairperson Jonathan rejoined the meeting. � 34 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 � B. Case Nos. C/Z 04-01, TT 31836, PP 04-01 and DA 04-01 - PDCC Development, LLC, Applicant Per City Council request, provide comments on proposed maintenance yard for Palm Desert Country Club. Mr. Drell said they could hear the description and comments from Mr. Case, the applicant. Chairperson Jonathan noted that there were probably some folks present that might wish to comment, so they would entertain those comments after the presentation and then they would have some discussion and make their comments to the Council. MR. RANDY CASE, Palm Desert Country Club LLC, a partner in the development, addressed the commission. He said that with him was Sherrie Ryan, also a partner, a couple of experts in the audience to help answer questions, their architect Richard Denzer, and Gary Lewis from the golf course management company. He `,,,, said he had about 14 slides in their presentation and copies of what would be shown were distributed to the commission. Mr. Case said that they were before the commission on March 15 and discussed everything in detail except the maintenance facility. There were a couple of questions and issues raised by some members of the public and they knew where they proposed to put the maintenance facility and touched on it that night, but didn't go into detail. They had since gone back to the architectural review board twice, had a series of ineetings with the public and they were pleased to show the commission what has come about from that. They are proposing to relocate the maintenance facility in the same location at the end of the 13th green and the beginning of the 14th tee box next to the city park right off of California and Avenue of the States. Chairperson Jonathan asked if it was at California and New York. Mr. Case clarified that was the location of the current location and where the clubhouse is located. Right off of Washington, Avenue of the States turns into California and there is the homeowner's ir 35 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANN{NG COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 association. There is a park next to that which the City leases from the homeowner's association. Right behind that park is the proposed location. He showed slides that identified the location of the proposed maintenance facility, described the location of the clubhouse and the current location. He also showed pictures of the current maintenance facility, which he thought was pretty poorly located and maintained in their estimation. He said they stated before that they are pianning to put about 56 million into this golf course, both into the golf course irrigation system, clubhouse and the maintenance facility and maintenance equipment. It was important to them to house the maintenance equipment. Most of the equipment sits out in the sun and sand and wasn't well kept, sealed, enclosed or maintained. There were a couple of small facilities, small buildings where equipment and some of the maintenance happens, but it was very small, undersized and inadequate for the 27-hole golf course. � He mentioned that Ron Gregory was also part of the team and was � in the audience and was their landscape architect. With Richard Denzer and Ron Gregory they put together a landscape plan to surround the facility. They would see pictures of some views of existing homes that he thought really hid the entire facility. He said there is currently a chain link fence that separates the park from the golf course and they were planning ten feet from that fence to locate the maintenance facility with an eight-foot concrete cinder block wall around the outside of the facility. The size of the entire yard was approximately 25,000 square feet. Inside it was about a 6,000 foot maintenance building that would be able to house all the equipment, supplies and tools. Chairperson Jonathan noted that there is an existing restroom facility. He asked if it would be taken out. Mr. Case said no, ihey were still working out the details about how to get over to it. They were going to completely renovate that restroom facility and the other one on the course. They are also , looking at potentially relocating to the other side. They have the � access road there. It is not used every few minutes of the day, but 36 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 �n. there is a little bit of a tricky situation for golfers to walk across there to get to the restroom. So they might relocate that. An important thing on the picture is the area near the 13th green which has virtually been unused for many years and is pretty much dried and dead back there. They were going to extend that 13th green and the lake about 35 yards back so that they had really all golf course back in that area. It would be the fall away and safety zone areas for that 13th green. The 14th tee box, the back tees, would be relocated up slightly. The 13th hole woutd be extended and the 14th reduced or shortened by about 20 yards. Chairperson Jonathan asked if those tee boxes were for the 14th green. Mr. Case said for the 14th hole, going directly west. There are three holes in this one section, the 12th is a par three, the 13th is now a par four and they were going to extend it to a par five and then 14 goes back right to left and is a par four. He noted that there are about nine single family homes and then a number of ;r,�, duplexes. There are existing trees around the greens. Some homes and duplexes wouldn't see the facility because there are so many trees. They are planning for the homes that may have a view of the facility to berm up to eight-feet and then landscape around that berm so they couldn't see the wall. The only thing they would see is part of the building. The building is 12 feet in the front and goes up to 16 feet in the back. Commissioner Lopez asked about the width of the building. M�. Case said it is 50 feet one way and 120 feet the other, a 6,000 foot facility. Chairperson Jonathan asked if the tall poles on the other side of the fence represented the rear wall of the structure. Mr. Case said yes. There were a number of poles put out last Friday. The smaller white poles were ihe top of the fence that surrounds the maintenance yard and then they had bigger poles to the back and up 50 feet. The little bit smaller poles represented the building itself. He thought they were still up today if some of �.. 37 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 � the commissioners got by there. They would be putting them up again next week for the Council to see before the next Council hearing. Using the slides he showed more views of the area, the park, the dog run, the trees in the area and views from the homes. He pointed out that one home was next to the access road. The golf course currently has a 20-foot access road. Back when this golf course was built in the early 1960's, they started with three holes, the 12th, 13th and 14th and the maintenance facility was located in this area. So they used the 20-foot access road which comes off of California. That was shown in a couple of slides. The two homes closest to the access road, he showed the bathroom, then to the maintenance facility yard and building, and said it was behind the bathroom up in trees, probably starting about 70 or 80 feet from the bathroom on the other side. This was looking directly east and kind of north. At the architectural review commission and with a number of the property owner meetings they had, there had been a lot of discussion about the access to this facility. The red access is the existing 20-foot access from California. That is the proposed access for the maintenance facility. They could see it outlined on the aerial photo. They could see that the access point comes along that 20 feet, swoops around the bathroom and goes directly into the maintenance yard. He said they were asked by staff, by the architectural review commission and by citizens, specifically the couple of homes and homeowners right next to the existing access road that they are proposing as the access to look at alternatives. They looked at three potential alternatives that would bisect the park in various locations. The first alternative in blue was located so that it was one house in distance away from the existing house, so it was about 60-feet away. It would bisect the park and leave partly an unused piece there. They could probably do a dog run or something else, but it bisects it. The benefit is it is farther away from that one house. The next alternative was light green and went along the basketball � court. It would result in them having to relocate the volleyball 38 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 � court and the basketball court. There would be a serious amount of construction. They could utilize the existing parking lot, but there would be quite a bit of work that would have to be redone to that park in order to have that one as the chosen access point. The last one in yellow went through the parking lot and through the rose garden that is a remembrance garden set aside for the homeowners association. A lot of people use it. This access would be along the very eastern 20 feet of it. Each of these accesses are proposed to be 20 feet. He said they listed the advantages, the disadvantages and mitigation that might be resulting from selecting one versus the other. Mainly they just get further away from the homes. Unfortunately, it would leave the park in a tough situation. There were some questions about relocating some of the park. Unfortunately, with them moving the green 35 or so yards back, they have a safety zone ihere and they would really be encroaching into that safety zone and it would be very dangerous ,,�, to have the park any further into the golf course area up there. He showed pictures of the different alternative access points and the views. He said that right now, the park fence on the west end of the park reduces about three feet of the access. It's really about 17 feet when they measured it, so there might have to be some adjustment if that is the access that is chosen to slightly move over one corner of the existing park fence. But they could do that pretty easily and wouldn't want to move it much but the very corner where they are tur�ing in they would have to move it slightly to the east. He said the first alternative he spoke of is 60 feet from the house. Chairperson Jonathan asked if Mr. Case would reduce the width of the access road to 17 feet. Mr. Case said no. Currently there is an access there and because of the west end of the park there is a wrought iron fence with some block posts and it was really about 17 feet. For some reason when the fence was built it shrunk down the access by about �... 39 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 ; three feet. Physically it was only about 17 feet and they probably � need 20 feet according to the Fire Department to really get the facilities in there. So they might have to slightly move even the existing access and move that fence slightly to the east. For some reason when it was built it wasn't surveyed and it isn't on the access line and doesn't leave 20 feet there. They would need 20 feet. He thought they could probably live with 18 in the front, but the back they had to make sure they had enough radius room to turn. He said they went to the architectural review commission one time with a different location and they said to go back, redesign it and put it closer to the fence to avoid people's views from the nine homes and a couple of those duplexes. They did that. They had a wall on top of the berm. They said no, put the wall with the berm on the outside with some landscaping so they can pretty much virtually hide the entire facility, other than the building. So he thought they had addressed the visual concerns from around it and if they look at the poles and go to the perimeter around the outside � of those homes, it will be difficult to see much because of the � horizon, the homes, and the landscaping in the back. It is pretty well hidden. He said Ron's folks did a good job at trying to hide the facility. He thought the issue was the access and they knew that. They have tried to work with the property owner that is nearest to the access point they are recommending, which is the existing access point. They have an agreement, which he signed, that although he isn't in favor of that access point, he understands that is where it might be because bisecting the park might be a little more difficult than it is good. They have agreed to construct an eight-foot wall, a sound and visual wall, along his property line and then also agreed to double pane most of the windows that are even closest to that access point. The access issue is when the maintenance facility people go there in the morning. They are going to be driving in there. Golf course workers come in early to mow the lawns and they are going to be coming in at 5:00 a.m. and there is going to be 10-15 people that work there. That is what it is going to be during the week primarily. They'll have some truck traffic, grass dumping ' trucks, sanitation trucks, some delivery trucks, not that much 40 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 �r.. truck traffic, no more than what is already on California during the day already. The issue is in the morning. They think they have done what they can and believe that he agreed they have done what they can to alleviate the potential for noise and visual to that nearest house. The rest of the houses are closer to California than the access point so there is nobody that is effected as much as he is. Commissioner Finerty asked what the plan is for the existing maintenance yard and how it will be cleaned up. Mr. Case said the existing maintenance yard will be cleaned up and they proposed to put new homes along that stretch of New York, about 1 1 single family homes. There would need to be some soil remediation and some things they had to do to clean that up and opening that whole area with a short game practice facility, expanding the lake that is right behind it and really clean that area up all around the clubhouse with the things they are doing there. �.., Chairperson Jonathan asked why they wouldn't build a new maintenance facility in the existing location. Mr. Case said that is a good question and one they have been asked many times. The depth of the maintenance facility, the size that they need, puts the maintenance facility into the lake that is behind it and into the practice area that they are redoing because of the loss of the driving range. The area is prohibitive and isn't deep enough. The lots they have there are 90-95 feet deep. This is 120 feet. They can't get radius and satisfactory turning in there. He thought that was the best answer he could give them. There really was not enough depth based on what their plans are for that whole area. He said that it is there and people have lived next to it. There are houses all around that maintenance facility now. Their goal was to remove the maintenance facility to the most remote point they could away from all houses, but secondly, in the process of redoing the clubhouse and that whole entry area there at New York and California is to create an atmosphere that wouldn't have the maintenance facility next to the clubhouse. When they get the luxury of starting a design of a golf course, � 41 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 there aren't maintenance facilities next to clubhouses. Albeit that is the way this one is, it really is because of the depth problem they've got and can't get an adequate depth on the facility and it was really prohibitive. Commissioner Tschopp asked if Mr. Case had any plans on the 6,000 square foot building now. He asked if it was a two-story building and asked what the height is. Mr. Case said there are plans and apologized he didn't bring them, but he could get them to them. He said it is a butler building that is 12 feet in the front and the side view is trapezoidal, so it is 12 feet up to 16 feet. It is one story. (There was a picture and Mr. Case asked Richard to point out where the building is and walk it up to the commission.) He said they originally came out with a 19.5 foot building that was triangular shaped and because of the comments from the architectural review board and from the homeowners out there, they reduced it down and minimized the building both from a height and width stand point. So it is 16. The � 16-foot wall if they remembered the posts out there is right next � to the fence. He said it goes down to 12 feet. Chairperson Jonathan asked if there would be landscaping between the building and the fence or between the building and the parking lot there. Mr. Case said there would be landscaping all around the facility, all around the outside wall of the maintenance yard. Along the fence there are a lot of shrubs and flowers along there. They plan on berming up behind the fence to the wall and planting all along there so the people on the one side of California looking through the park, which is pretty dense already with vegetation, will not see that wall. What they will see are shrubs, trees and vegetation. The only thing they would be able to see, and for a short time, would be the building itself. The 16-foot back side is a little bit taller than the trees along the fence line. With landscaping and the right types of planting, they could virtually hide that building as well. , 42 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 �.. Commissioner Tschopp asked if there was a landscape agreement or some other mechanism to assure that the landscaping is maintained to a level they hope to have to hide the building and the roadway. If he recalled correctly, Mr. Case thought the architectural review board will require them a period to establish that landscaping and get it to what they are trying to show in this rendering. Commissioner Tschopp asked if this would be part of that agreement. Mr. Drell explained that the whole project would be subject to a landscape maintenance agreement. Commissioner Tschopp asked if there were any restrictions or mitigations that they had taken on themselves for traffic. He understood that workers needed to come into work early and leave early, they have noisy equipment, and he asked if there were any other things he was self- imposing or agreeing to to try and mitigate some of that noise. Mr. Case said other than the wall and landscaping, they would ,�,�, have a protective gate. They need to do some things. The existing property owner has a six-foot fence that goes right to the sidewalk. Obviously with the park there there is a lot of traffic on the sidewalk. They need to really design this along with City staff to make sure, but other than the landscaping and the sound barrier wall, which is similar to what is seen on freeways, they feel like they have done primarily what is going to be causing noise withing the facility. With the traffic itself, he was assured that coming onto California would be no more than what is already on California during the day. That is a busy street now. In the morning is when they would have 10-12 cars coming in earlier than normal. They still have traffic at 5:00, not as much traffic for people going to work, but there is still traffic on California. But after that they will have the same trucks coming through California. They have to come down California to get to the existing maintenance facility already. So the amount of traffic would not really be that much different. It would be a little more condensed early on. � 43 MINUTES � PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 2004 Commissioner Lopez asked if there is a school there. Mr. Drell said there is a Montessori School there in the association building on the far east side of the park. He believed as part of the analysis going on for the Council which includes both operational golf analysis, plus all sorts of economic analysis for the whole deal, there would be an acoustical study that would specifically study this phenomena of cars going by this house at five in the morning and make a recommendation as to what sort of mitigation is going to be required. That is something that will be coming back to the Council. Mr. Case said the other point that is important to make with their automated irrigation, at night now every homeowner out there that surrounds this golf course hears trucks and people from ten o'clock at night to six in the morning, all night every night driving around doing the coupler sprinkler system. So that will be completely reduced so there are some offsets that are clearly more beneficial than the other way. Commissioner Campbell asked if they could require the employees � coming to work to enter from Avenue of the States instead of going � through California where all the homes are. If they entered from Avenue of the States and go onto California, the park is there and they really didn't have that many residents. Mr. Case thought that was a great idea. He said they could do that with delivery trucks as well. They could require the trucks that are bringing supplies and things in to use that same entrance. That would really reduce what is there now because they had to go half way th►ough California to get to the maintenance facility now. Chairperson Jonathan asked if anyone wished to speak in FAVOR or OPPOSITION. MS. THERESA PAWLEY, 77-670 California Drive, addressed the commission. She said she was also speaking for her neighbor Bob Peterson, the Petersons were not able to be at the meeting. They asked her to speak on their behalf. She informed commission that their two homes received the dubious distinction of being the most � impacted by the location of the maintenance facility and by the � proposed access. They have opposed this location with tenacity � 44 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 � in part because of a quote from her attorney. "Act now or forever weep." She wanted to comment on a couple of things Randy said. When the commission asked about the existing location of the maintenance facility and why it didn't just stay, he has always indicated to them that it was too small, but they can't understand that because it is large enough to put 1 1 homes on, but too small to build a nice maintenance facility on. That was one issue. When he mentioned the night irrigation, she would address that later on as well, but it was her understanding that the night irrigation would continue for the first year until the new irrigation system is installed. So that is a small issue. She felt a little like Paul Harvey and the rest of the story because this is the view point of the neighborhood and she thought they had in excess of 25 letters that will express some of these opinions. The thought of losing or diminishing serenity and peaceful enjoyment of their homes, patios and yards is a great concern to many of them that ,`„ will be severely effected 365 days a year for the life of their property by the proposed relocation of this enormous facility designed to service a 27-hole golf course. They each paid premium prices for their locations along the 13th and 14th fairways. They did not, and would not, buy a home adjacent to an enormous 150- foot plus or minus by 300 foot maintenance yard with this access steps from existing homeowners for innumerable reasons. Number one, loss of privacy. Approximately 18 men. They have said between 14 and 18, although the standard for the desert for a low end golf course appears to be one maintenance man per hole. The resort which is closest to them out on Hovley has 18 holes and employs 18 men each day. So 18 men coming and going a minimum of four times daily up and down the fairway going out to work, back for lunch, going out again and back, 365 days is tremendously different than the expected routine of grounds keepers mowing, watering or resting along the fairway, which is absolutely accepted and always has been. Number two is the noise issue. Although against Palm Desert Noise Ordinance Section 9.24.060, residents have never ir. 45 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 � com lained about the necessar ni ht waterin and the nois � P Y 9 9 Y runabouts. However, building this facility at the proposed location with all the noise it entails beginning at 5:00 a.m. isn't acceptable to the residents. As they know, Palm Desert Noise Code Section 9.24.010 reads, "Inadequately controlled noise presents a growing danger to health and welfare of the residents of the city of Palm Desert." Section 9.24.04 states, "The characteristics and conditions which should be considered in determining whether a violation of provisions of this section exists include, but are not limited to, the following. The fifth item listed was the proximity of noise to sleeping quarters; the eight item is the time of day or night the noise occurs. The noise generated because of this facility will begin two to 2.5 hours before the city code allows construction crews to begin their work. The third point is peaceful enjoyment. Section 9.24.010 says each person is entitled to an environment in which the noise is not detrimental to his life, health or enjoyment of property. 3 Number four is the negative impact on property value. In order to � sell their homes, even today they would need to disclose the proposed facility and location. Wouldn't it have a similar impact on a potential buyer as it does them? Number five is the access that Randy spoke about. It is truly an issue to them for a number of reasons. A great increase in congestion in an already extremely congested area with a city park, a busy clubhouse rented out each day for activities and on weekends for private parties, weddings and church services, Palm Desert Country Club pools, a dog park and possibly a school in the future and parking for all of the above. At 5:00 a.m. approximately 18 men and their noisy vehicles, they weren't always talking about quiet Hondas here. Golf course equipment, Waste Management trucks and all delivery trucks will begin using this single access. She'd like to�note that the Petersons' bed is five feet from this access. The red access that was on Randy's display. Chairperson Jonathan asked Ms. Pawley to bring her comments to a conclusion since she had exceeded her five minutes. � . � � 46 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 �.. Ms. Pawley noted that she was speaking for several people, but she would. She said there was also an issue with flies. The resort next to them has, although they are very conscientious and are a great resort, they have a problem with flies in the plant material. They have it dumped three times a week, but still have an issue. There's also a question of storage of pesticides, diesel fuels, solvents, chemicals and waste products beside the city park and beside their homes. One important issue that hadn't been brought up. At most sites sound drifts and disappears from its point of origin. In this horseshoe location surrounding the 13th and 14th fairways, sound has always seemed to be contained within the area. She learned only recently that the noise for example of a basketball bouncing in the park is as loud in the homes midway down the 13th fairway, the homes along Michigan, as it is in her living room, a fraction of that distance. Sound reacts more like an amphitheater which their homes are unfortunately a part of. She believed this was another reason, consciously or unconsciously, they fear the �,., ongoing noise of the maintenance facility. When she left for the Planning Department last Friday, they were working with the poles and flagging the area. When she got home late that afternoon the poles were gone. They were put in again the next morning. But in 24 years of construction, she has never had poles stolen on a project, even when they were required to stand for six months. When she asked her neighbors why the poles weren't there, they said that the developer was afraid they would be stolen. It was a three-day weekend and so many people were out of town they didn't a chance to see the poling. She could only assumed that the poles would be reinstated and left in place for a reasonable period. Homeowners not currently in the valley have requested photographs of the poling. Another issue is that the Petersons requested that the potential eight-foot wall just beyond their property line be poled. Randy Case said that this poling would not be necessary, but the Petersons did not concur. The Petersons in two letters in their conversations reiterate that they absolutely object to the relocation of the maintenance facility. Should the City Council rule upon the �.. 47 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 r � � relocation of this facility against the homeowners wishes, the � Petersons will then explore their meager alternatives of the wall and the windows that Randy talked about. Homeowners on both sides of California and Michigan greatly resent the relocation of this facility without any notification to the residents. They continue to believe that this residential area is the wrong place to build a maintenance yard considering the vehicles and equipment that it will generate seven days a week. The proposed access between the Petersons' home and an extremely busy park with children coming and going, roller blades, skate boards and bikes throughout the day is a huge problem. It remains to be seen if alternatives to the access will work. The homeowners' singular hope is that Planning Commission's recommendation to the City Council will reflect the variety of concerns they have listed in more than 25 letters delivered to the commission. She thanked them for their time. , MR. SCOTT JOHNSON, 77-150 Florida Avenue, addressed the � commission. He said he has been director of golf at Palm Desert Country Club for ten years now and a homeowner there for 12. He wasn't going to speak tonight, but he only came in fear that what happened just happened. Theresa stands up there and says that she speaks for that community. Knowing that, he went out this weekend and put those poles up and he put them up and down three times in fear that they would be stolen at night. They had two break ins in their cart barn and had six carts stolen this week, just this week alone. They could check the police reports. They have out of bound stakes thrown in that lake that they live on, number 13. The kids come out, they pull them out and they even concreted them in and they dug them out and threw them in. The poles being stolen was not something they didn't want to expend the cost on again of having to go out and buy more poles, measure them, they measured them at every foot, taped them so people could see the actual height, they were marked every one foot so people could see the actual height, if the commission was out there. Chairperson Jonathan said they were out there. � � 48 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 �... Mr. Johnson said that's why they did that. He believed they were handed signatures that he went out and got this week. They were from the horseshoe that she talked about the commission getting 25 letters from in favor of them moving the maintenance yard there. He walked door to door and one of the homeowners is here now that lives over there. He did, however, have two people who said they did not want to sign. He told them that was perfectly fine, they were entitled in their opinion. But he didn't want to come here tonight and have the commission believe that all those homeowners back there in the horseshoe are against this, because they are not and they are the most effected people by this because they all look directly at it. The two end homes were not home and they were not able to get to those. He went back there this morning and one was a renter and the renter did not want to sign, they wanted the homeowner to sign. So he would get that one to them. Regarding traffic, right now they have eight maintenance workers. �,, Not 18, they have eight. He has five irrigators that come in and they are there from 12:00 a.m. until 8:00 a.m. They live in Indio and come down the suggested path anyway. They come in from Avenue of the States. They go by Theresa's house every morning now as it is. Her house is closer to the street than it will be to the entrance way that they will be going into. He goes by Theresa's house every day. He goes and gets coffee and opens up the shop every day at 5:30 in the morning. The park itself is noisy now as it is anyway with kids playing basketball and skate boarding. It's nothing more than what they are going to have now. Their maintenance workers do not go in and out over and over. They come in once at 4:30 a.m. and leave at 2:30 p.m. Their irrigators come in at 12:00 a.m. and leave at 8:00 a.m. Hopefully a year from now they wouldn't have that. The homeowner's building, he is a home owner there. He checked the schedule and last year it was rented out ten times. Not busy every day with birthdays and weddings. Ten times in a year it was rented. So concerning undue traffic, the traffic goes by that place every day now. There aren't any more cars that will be going by � 49 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 there. The trucks that deliver their stuff to the maintenance yard had to go that way anyway because they weren't allowed to come up Elkhorn or past the school on Warner Trail. So the trucks come in that way any way and go by her house. The trucks don't come at 5:30 in the morning, most of the deliveries and pick ups from Waste Management are between the hours of ten and two. He just wanted to let them know that the whole community isn't against the project. Everybody that lives in that facility in that area is not against the project. In fact, if they checked those addresses, according to the map ihat is almost every house in that horseshoe. From where the old green starts where the lake is all the way through, if they counted the amount of homes that are there, they would match those signatures and they could call any one of them. MS. LOU CLUB, 43-035 Texas Avenue, addressed the commission. She said she also has a property on Michigan Drive. She has it rented to a close friend of hers and is there almost on 3 a daily basis. She has sat in that house when they are playing basketball games late at night and if they are sitting out on the patio they can hear the basketball. If they are in the house with the door shut, they can't hear it. Anybody who bought property on California Drive, and she had been in the Palm Desert Country Club area for 21 years and she was in real estate sales as a broker for ten years and before that ten years as a sales person, anybody buying a home on California Drive knows it's a through street from one main thoroughfare to another. If they didn't want the traffic, they shouldn't have moved there in the first place. She didn't see any reason not to have the maintenance building where it is designed to be now. She thanked the commission. There was no one else wanting to address the commission. Chairperson Jonathan asked for commission comments. Having been at the location today, Commissioner Campbell thought this was the best place for this facility. The park is right there and the way it is going to be landscaped and bermed, she didn't think any of the neighbors would have any objections. The home that is right there by the road that will be the entrance to the maintenance yard, it will be quite an j � � 50 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 �r.. improvement having an eight-foot wall and having new windows put on. She thought it would increase the property value for that particular home. Commissioner Lopez asked for confirmation that they were just to provide comments. Chairperson Jonathan concurred. Their comments would be on record and the Council could do with those comments as they wish. Commissioner Lopez thought the overall project itself, that of moving the new greens, moving the tee and adding in the maintenance yard building would work great. Feeling comfortable with what these folks are telling them regarding how it will be landscaped and bermed he thought would work out just fine. He was more inclined to go with Alternative 1 as an access, only from the stand point it would move it a little farther away from the residents that are right there and there might be some opportunity then to utilize that area around there for a small dog park or the location for the restroom. It was an opportunity to move it farther away from the residents. That would be his personal opinion as to the access location. Overall, he thought the location and the project itself ,`„ would be very nice. Commissioner Tschopp thought there was no argument that the existing maintenance facility is a dump and needs to be improved. In looking at the different alternatives, he thought this was actually the best alternative. The road as proposed that was the original location of the access road if the maintenance shed is built there is still the best, most viable use of that piece of property. What the developer is proposing for the wall and windows for the owner of the house next door will work out very well for the owner and should mitigate most of the noise. He also thought that if the landscape is done and maintained properly around the maintenance shed there will be very little and limited visual impact to the residents and will actually enhance some of that area. They might even find it decreases some of the noise from the park and the rest of the Palm Desert Country Club area. The access closer to the main Washington thoroughfare means less driving on California, so in some ways there are some indirect benefits that will happen also. He thought overall given the different alternatives this was the very best one and if done properly would actually enhance and work very well for the neighborhood. �.. 51 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 ; � missioner Finert conc rred. The s Ilin oin f r r was e the � Com y u e g p t o he to tak existing traffic and bring it in through Avenue of the States. That is a great indirect benefit for everyone else. She was not entirely sold on the project anyway. She still had an issue with taking open space and converting it to more houses. She also thought that when they purchase a home and they are next to a driveway or open land, you never know what it is you're going to get. Same goes for purchasing on California, so choosing a location not in this area would have prevented the problem. She didn't know what the compensation would be as far as the eight- foot wall and the double paned windows with regard to possibly being awakened every morning. She wasn't certain that was going to mitigate all of the noise. Seemed like there still may be existing noise and would still be an existing problem. She thought it still might be an issue for that home owner to try and sell the home. She wasn't sure what impact this would have on the property values. Chairperson Jonathan said he actually could see some benefit to the present location for the maintenance facility. They didn't have drawings or renderings and hadn't gotten into a precise plan, so he took it on face value that the current location would not facilitate a facility. If it did, he � saw some advantages because there are already structures and it would be less objectionable. It would maintain the open space by the park and there are a number of benefits. On the other hand, there is an opportunity to remove some traffic from that area, so he is taking it on face value that the existing location will not facilitate the requirements for the new maintenance facility. Given that, then the proposed location makes eminent sense. It is an unused area that is largely tucked away and will be relatively invisible when the landscaping matures with proper maintenance. The only down side he could see was on one residence and that is important. In that regard, he thought that Alternative 1 in terms of access, he tended to agree with Commissioner Lopez. That could make a lot of sense. He was out there today and couldn't recall if the end of that park is already a doggie park or not. Mr. Drell said that is the one open play area. He didn't think they would want to put a dog park there. The impact of a dog park would be far greater from a number of senses. Chairperson Jonathan said he didn't mean to get into the redesign of the a park, but if the design of the park facilitated the proper use of that end � � 52 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 � piece, then the Alternative 1 access would make logical sense because they would be avoiding the only negative impact in his mind of locating the maintenance facility in that place. If not and it messed up the park, then he thought the proposed red access road would be acceptable with ihe mitigations being proposed. He asked if there were any other comments for Council on this matter. Commissioner Tschopp said that a lot of times they look at the value of the open space and they certainly take into consideration the homeowner's right. At the same time homeowners have to be aware when they buy a house next to an access road that it probably means that something will be developed at the end of that access road and that the access road some day might be used. So on both sides of the proverbial fence they have to take a clear look. Mr. Drell said they had comments and if the commission was so inclined they could make a recommendation. Chairperson Jonathan said the Council asked them for comments and would defer to his fellow ,i,,, commissioners, but he was comfortable leaving it at that and letting them read the comments. Mr. Drell said they could glean what a recommendation might be. Chairperson Jonathan asked if that was acceptable to the commission. They said yes. Chairperson Jonathan thanked staff for the suggestion and thanked those attending for spending their time. The commission really valued their input. Action: None. C. Case No. VAR 04-01 - SUZANNE LOPEZ, Applicant Request for adoption of a resolution approving a variance to allow the reduction of a required minimum front yard setback from 20 feet to 17 feet to allow construction of a carport at 45-807 Portola Avenue. Mr. Drell explained that the reason why this was originally presented as a resolution to Council was because staff anticipated the appeal of the architectural issue to Council. The applicant was withdrawing that appeal �r.. 53 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1, 2004 and was in the process of designing a permanent garage that will be integrated architecturally into the renovation of her house. Therefore, there will not be an action at Council. So basically staff was requesting that the commission adopt a new resolution approving the variance. Commissioner Finerty asked if it would be a garage. Mr. Drell said yes. It would be in line with the house and in line with the garages on the other houses on Portola. But she would have to push that garage back into her yard to get the adequate depth. Chairperson Jonathan said that if they were going back to square one, a clean page, he asked if this would come back as one application with the setback exception and with the design. Mr. Drell said that this was unusual. They always talk about this bifurcated responsibility and thought it would all get resolved at Council. If the commission wanted to see her design as a Miscellaneous item for the architecture when it comes back, that would be fine. Chairperson Jonathan said he was thinking back to some of the prior applications of this nature that we've had and some in the Palm Desert � Country Club area where they've asked for an exception and they've seen exactly what they were talking about. But he would defer to the pleasure of the commission. Mr. Drell explained that this was one of those cases where she didn't want to be designing a major renovation to her house that she couldn't build. Commissioner Finerty stated that in view of the pictures they saw last time, she would really like to see it before they approve it. Mr. Drell said the architecture coming back to the Planning Commission was fine and they could make that a condition on the variance, that they have a chance to approve the final development. So in a philosophical sense, they don't object to the setback, but they want to see the project. Commissioner Finerty said absolutely. Commissioner Lopez indicated that they were saying that if she builds the garage, it was a garage now and not a carport, and if flush with the house it will be 17 feet. Mr. Drell said that was correct. It would be the same. The whole point was that it used to be 30 feet before we moved the street toward her house. � � 54 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 2004 ,r,,, Chairperson Jonathan asked if they could do a minute motion to get the sense of the commission or if she needed a formal resolution approving the variance in order to move forward. He was a little uncomfortable adopting a resolution approving a variance because to him there was a little quid pro quo here. If it looked good, it justifies the exception. Mr. Drell indicated that on the other hand, they couid approve the variance with a condition that she needs the Planning Commission's approval to build the garage. Chairperson Jonathan said that if the Planning Commission didn't like how it looked, then it wouldn't have the setback rights. Mr. Drell concurred. In essence the proposed remodel and garage addition shall be brought back to the Planning Commission for approval. Chairperson Jonathan concurred. Commissioner Campbell asked if they had a say so about the color of the house. There is an ordinance now in place. Mr. Drell said the city has control over color pursuant to the ordinance. Commissioner Finerty agreed that the commission would like this to come back to the Planning Commission. Commissioner Finerty asked for clarification on the type of action Mr. Drell wanted. Mr. Drell said it �., would be approving the resolution with the amendment of adding the condition requiring submission of the actual remodel to the commission for review and approval. Action: It was moved by Commissioner Finerty, seconded by Commissioner Campbell, approving the findings as presented by staff. Motion carried 5- 0. It was moved by Commissioner Finerty, seconded by Commissioner Campbell, adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 2274, approving VAR 04-01, subjeci to conditions as amended. Motion carried 5-0. X. COMMITTEE MEETING UPDATES A. ART IN PUBLIC PLACES Commissioner Campbell informed commission that they reviewed the submitted entries for the benches on EI Paseo which they had displayed at the North Wing Gallery and there was a reception �` 55 MINUTES PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION JUNE 1 , 2004 � � from 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m., which they just missed. Also, they � viewed some slides for potential artists to be placed in the City of Palm Desert Artist Registry. B. LANDSCAPE COMMITTEE Commissioner Finerty said the next meeting was June 2. C. PROJECT AREA 4 COMMITTEE Commissioner Finerty said the Vast meeting was informational. XI. COMMENTS Commissioner Tschopp brought up the issue of summer meeting dates and if there would be a quorum for all meetings. Chairperson Jonathan said he would be absent on July 6, Commissioner Tschopp said he would also be absent on July 6. Commissioner Lopez said he wasn't sure if he would be there. He was out of town and wasn't sure if he'd be back by the 6th. Commissioner Campbell asked if the holiday was on the 5th � because the 4th fell on a Sunday. Staff concurred that the offices would ' be closed on Monday. Commissioner Finerty said she was surprised that � staff was even going to have a meeting on the 6th. Mr. Drell said if there isn't a quorum, then the meeting would be canceled. Commission concurred that the meeting should be canceled. XII. ADJOURNMENT It was moved by Commissioner Tschopp, seconded by Commissioner Finerty, adjourning the meeting by minute motion. The motion carried 5- 0. The meeting was adjourned at 9:03 p.m. PHI IP DRELL� Secretary ATT � T: � SABBY JO AT , Chairperson Palm Desert Planning Commission /tm � 4 � 56 r