HomeMy WebLinkAbout0919 MINUTES
Now PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
TUESDAY - SEPTEMBER 19, 2006
I. CALL TO ORDER
Vice Chairperson Finerty called the meeting to order at 6:06 p.m.
II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Commissioner Tschopp led in the pledge of allegiance.
II1. ROLL CALL
Members Present: Cindy Finerty, Vice Chair
Sonia Campbell
Van Tanner
r..
Dave Tschopp
Members Absent: Jim Lopez, Chair
Staff Present: Phil Drell, Director of Community Development
Bob Hargreaves, City Attorney
Steve Smith, Planning Manger
Tony Bagato, Associate Planner
Ryan Stendell, Assistant Planner
Phil Joy, Associate Transportation Planner
Tonya Monroe, Administrative Secretary
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Request for consideration of the September 5, 2006 meeting minutes.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner
Tschopp, approving the September 5, 2006 meeting minutes. Motion carried
4-0.
V. SUMMARY OF COUNCIL ACTION
Mr. Drell summarized pertinent September 14, 2006 City Council actions.
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 19 2006
No
VI. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
None.
VII. CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Case No. PMW 05-15 -CHARLES MILLER AND PATTY DOHERTY,
Applicants
Request for approval of a parcel map waiver to consolidate
Lots 155 and 152 consistent with precise plan approval for
Enterprise Rent-A-Car at 73-088 Highway 111.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner
Tanner, approving the Consent Calendar by minute motion. Motion carried
4-0 (Chairperson Lopez was absent).
Vill. PUBLIC HEARINGS
Anyone who challenges any hearing matter in court may be limited to raising .rr
only those issues he, she or someone else raised at the public hearing
described herein, or in written correspondence delivered to the Planning
Commission at, or prior to, the public hearing.
A. Case No. CUP 06-10 - THE ROCK CHURCH/PASTOR EDDIE
ELGUERA, Applicant
Request for approval of a conditional use permit to operate a
5,748 square foot place of worship at 75-400 Gerald Ford
Drive, Suite 109-112.
Mr. Stendell reviewed the staff report and recommended approval of the
proposed conditional use permit, subject to conditions. He noted that the
applicant was present to answer questions.
Vice Chairperson Finerty opened the public hearing and asked the applicant
to address the Commission.
MR. EDDIE ELGUERA, 1644 Smiley Heights Drive in Redlands,
California, came forward.
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Vice Chairperson Finerty asked if Mr. Elguera had anything to add to the
staff report.
Mr. Elguera said they were from The Rock Church in San Bernardino,
California, and a lot of their members were commuting to San
Bernardino and they wanted to come out to this area to facilitate their
needs instead of them leaving this area. Also, he and his wife and
family would be relocating to this area and they were excited about it
and looking forward to being part of the desert.
There were no questions for the applicant. Vice Chairperson Finerty asked
if anyone wished to speak in FAVOR or OPPOSITION to the proposed
project. There was no one. Vice Chairperson Finerty closed the public
hearing and asked for Commission comments.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Tanner, seconded by Commissioner
Tschopp, approving the findings as presented by staff. Motion carried 4-0
(Chairperson Lopez was absent).
It was moved by Commissioner Tanner, seconded by Commissioner
Tschopp, adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 2417, approving
Case No. CUP 06-10, subject to conditions. Motion carried 4-0 (Chairperson
Lopez was absent).
B. Case No. PMW 05-12 -BIGHORN DEVELOPMENT, LLC,Applicant
Request for approval of the transfer of 4,443 square feet of
land from "Lot X of TT 25296-6 to "Lot 12" of same tract on
Canyon Crest within "Canyons of Bighorn."
Mr. Joy reviewed the staff report, noting that with the proposed conditions of
approval, staff was recommending approval of Case No. PMW 05-12.
Commissioner Tschopp asked for clarification on the pad height of the
adjacent homes in relation to this lot. Mr. Joy said this home was
approximately three or four feet below those adjacent to it. The house had
a proposed pad height of 53 feet. Commissioner Tschopp clarified that he
was more interested in the proposed swimming pool and how far the
encroachment area was above the home in Ironwood. How far above this
grade was the nearest home in Ironwood. Mr. Joy said the Barna residence
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has an elevation of 55.5 and the new house would be at 53, so that would
be a 2.5 foot difference. The new house pad would be 2.5 feet below the pad
level of the adjacent houses.
From Ironwood, Commissioner Tschopp asked if they were looking up at this
proposed lot transfer, how many feet would they be looking up at. Mr. Joy
said they would be looking down at it from Ironwood. Mr. Joy further
explained that this house was going to be north of the Heather Court section
beyond the gates of Ironwood Country Club. Commissioner Tschopp asked
for confirmation that the area being transferred was below the nearest home
in Ironwood. Mr. Joy said that was correct. Commissioner Tschopp asked if
there were any landscaping plans proposed or any kind of landscaping
restrictions proposed on this piece of property. Mr. Joy said no, the only
restrictions were that it be used for open space purposes and no structures,
as well as the height limit on the house itself. Mr. Drell said they could place
a condition that the house go to the Architectural Review Commission (ARC)
and adjacent Ironwood residents be notified. Mr. Joy said there were plans
and copies of photos that were included with the Commission packets. One
photograph looked in the northwesterly direction and showed a berm and
there were a couple of trees behind the spa area and a berm behind the
trees with a line of shrubs. So the existing berm out there on the edge of the .rr
pad was to remain as the edge of that property. There was no landscaping
proposed to the east of the existing berm out there. Directly to the south was
the McAllister residence and there was no additional planting proposed at
this time.
Vice Chairperson Finerty asked if planting was proposed if that would come
before the City's Landscape Committee for review or what body would
approve it. Mr. Drell said that landscape plans are reviewed by staff unless
conditions were put on this approval. It could also go to the ARC. Vice
Chairperson Finerty asked if the house complete with landscape plans would
normally go to ARC. Mr. Drell said that staff has approved plans if they have
been approved by the Homeowners Association if nothing was of issue to a
non Bighorn resident. If staff is at all concerned, it is referred to ARC. He
asked Mr. Joy for the maximum height of the proposed home. Mr. Joy replied
that a couple of peaks go up to 19 feet. Mr. Joy indicated that when they
referred to the landscaping, for the area he was referring to in Canyons,
there was nothing being proposed there right now. He asked if
Commissioner Finerty was asking about something being proposed in the
future. Vice Chairperson Finerty said that was correct. Mr. Joy said that
would necessitate a change and they could condition that to be before the
City's ARC.
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Vice Chairperson Finerty noted that when Mr. Joy gave his staff report, he
mentioned that the maximum height of the building was 12 feet, yet
Condition No. 4 said 14. She asked for clarification. Mr. Joy said he meant
14 feet. This area of the house would encroach 12 feet to the east with a
maximum height to 14 feet within that 12-foot area. With the old lot line, the
house would have to stay 12 feet to the west of the old lot line. Because of
the lot line adjustment, it could possibly move 60 feet to the east. That was
staffs concern. Instead of moving 60 feet to the east, it was only moving 12
feet and in that 12-foot area, the maximum height of the house would be 14
feet per staffs condition.
Vice Chairperson Finerty opened the public hearing and asked the applicant
to address the Commission.
MS. KRISTI HANSON, 72-185 Painters Path in Palm Desert, came
forward. She explained that she was the architect for the project and
wanted to run through their thought processes. She handed out some
updated exhibits that she thought would help give an idea of what the
people from Ironwood would be looking at and their thought process
in trying to address concerns.
She indicated that the area in question was the additional property
being transferred from the landscape easement. The area was
identified in the photos. She went through a description of each photo.
(Copies of photos on file.) She pointed out the area that would
typically be required to be landscaped by the City, but it wasn't visible
by anyone other than Lot 12 and those people immediately adjacent
from Ironwood. It was her understanding that Bighorn intends to
landscape this area and would be sensitive to the neighbors. The
landscaping would be consistent low shrubs and ground cover. There
was no intention to add additional trees.
She said the view from Lot 5 was really not impacted by their
proposal. Additionally, looking back from what would be their
proposed garage or potentially their entry area, the wall heights from
Lot 5 appeared to be quite lower than the required six feet from higher
property levels that is typical around Palm Desert, which created a
privacy issue for Lot 12 as evidenced in her photographs. They could
look directly into their yard, which was a privacy issue for them, as
well as from them toward the Bighorn lot.
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The next photo showed Lot 6. There were two layers of existing
shrubs surrounding the existing wall. This house had a viewing tower
which was actually not allowed in the city of Palm Desert, which
created a major privacy issue for them. The sixth photograph showed
Lot 7. The shrubs had grown up and as far as she knew, had not
been an issue and completely blocked the view from Lot 7 looking into
the property in question. The 7th and 8th photographs showed Lot 8
and Lot 7 and the same sort of situation applied. Going from Lot 5 up
to Lot 8, they got much taller and were significantly above the Bighorn
property.
Ms. Hanson said that Exhibit A showed what could have been
possible. They were asking for a lot merger with this additional
property, but what was really possible were two much larger homes.
Within those homes they were given boundaries which they could
have built to at an 18-foot height limit, which was allowed by Bighorn.
In that case, if they looked at Exhibit B, at the bottom of the page a
section of Lot 6 looking toward the guest house showed the wall and
the shrubs and they could see that their small little guest house was
significantly smaller and further away from Lot 6 than the 18-foot high
boundary that they could have done if they had done two homes.
There was also the guest house on the right and the tennis court
which had been recessed seven feet into the ground. So if they
figured seven feet with a six-foot high wall, they were essentially 13
feet below any of their neighbors.
With the main house, they blocked out the 18-foot high boundaries
they could have done and did quite a bit more open space as it
affects Lot 6 because of the tennis court.
The next series of "C" exhibits showed from Lot 5 where they took
their perspective looking back toward the guest house and how that
was created. The photographs also showed the view as a 5'5" person
showing the walls as they exist and the edge of their guest house
garage. The second photograph was of the existing wall at six feet
because they assumed it would be six feet with the guest house
beyond any landscaping. C-2 showed it with landscaping and the
mountains beyond. C-3 was just a colored version of the same thing
which she said gave them a feel for the views they were maintaining.
Ms. Hanson said they did the same thing for Lot 6 since that was the
one that would probably be the one most effected. D-1 showed how
they established it. D-2 showed the site section. The second part of
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D-2 showed it without any landscaping. The bottom part of D-2
showed landscaping. They could see that the existing landscaping as
it exists on the Ironwood side and the Bighorn side basically
obliterated the view of the house altogether. D-3 was a colored
version.
Ms. Hanson said she realized there was some opposition to the
merger, but she thought they had been thoughtful in their building
placement and that their landscaping took into consideration peoples'
views and were particularly sensitive in the size and height of the
structures and the potential mountain views that Ironwood neighbors
might continue to enjoy.
Commissioner Tschopp asked if Ms. Hanson was able to share this packet
with any of the neighbors at Ironwood prior to this meeting.
Ms. Hanson said no, because it was just finished.
Commissioner Tschopp asked if she had met with any of the Ironwood
neighbors at Ironwood prior to this meeting.
Ms. Hanson believed there were members from Bighorn who had met
with them.
There were no other questions. Vice Chairperson Finerty asked if anyone
wished to speak in FAVOR of the project. There was no response. Vice
Chairperson Finerty asked if anyone wished to speak in OPPOSITION to the
proposed project.
MR. BOB McALLISTER, 120 Heather Court in Ironwood Country Club
within the Estates at Ironwood Association came forward. He said his
house is Lot No. 5, which looks down on the proposed project. He has
also been President of the Association and tonight he was
representing himself, as well as some members of the Association.
He said a number of their people don't live here year around and were
unable to attend. He tried to contact each of them and asked them to
contact the City to let them know their particular opinions.
It was his understanding that Bighorn made some changes from the
original plans and reduced the height down to 14 feet, which was in
his opinion an attempt to show some good faith on their part to try and
be neighborly with regard to their situation. John Barna's house was
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greatly impacted; more than his. But he wrote to staff and expressed
his views in writing and perhaps staff could elaborate on Mr. Barna's
views. Also present tonight was John Hinds and he is perhaps more
affected by this situation.
Mr. McAllister wanted to commend Bighorn in being willing to make
changes in terms of the 14-foot height restriction, plus they told him
that they would be interested in trying to be as neighborly as possible
with the open space and would see that some of their views were
protected to the best as is possible. That took a lot of definition, but
he was trying to explain that they tried to be cooperative. He had a lot
of meetings with Mr. Drell, Mr. Joy and so forth.
One thing he wanted to mention, and he thought it had been said, but
he wanted to be involved and notified on the Architectural Review
Committee when that time came so they had input. Also, he
commented that the tennis court is sunken by seven feet or so, which
was a nice way of doing it, but he strongly suggested that there be no
lights on the tennis court. That would be very very terrible from his
point of view. So no lights on the tennis courts. He again thanked
Bighorn for trying to act as a good neighbor. He thought everyone had
a right to build on their property, but if they could do it in such a way
that they are cognizant of other peoples' feelings, situations and
values of property and so forth, that would be very helpful.
MR. JOHN HINDS, 126 Heather Court, Lot 8 on the chart. He said he
wasn't speaking in opposition to the proposed action. He was not
troubled by it. It was acceptable to him. He submitted an e-mail to Mr.
Drell which probably raised issues which were probably more
appropriate for ARC having to do with the wall between themselves
and the adjacent property. He had a chance to review the drawings
in detail a couple of days ago. He thought it was a very complete, very
well done set of drawings. The building itself was very attractive and
he was not opposed to it. It was a matter of being a civil engineering
issue that needs to be addressed and taken care of. The plans clearly
indicated that there are no lights on the tennis courts, but he thought
it was very important, whether it was Planning Commission or ARC to
make sure that continued to be the case in the future.
He also raised the question of the shrubbery heights between Lot 12
and Lot 13 and the adjacent properties: Lots 8, 7, 6 and 5. Bighorn
has been very cooperative over the last four or five years in working
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with them to control the height of those shrubs at a level adequate to
protect the privacy of the Bighorn side, but did not unduly interfere
with their sight lines. He was very hopeful, whether it be ARC or
whomever, to work with them and ensure that situation continues,
whether Bighorn has control of that property or a private owner. He
wasn't sure who was going to own those shrubs when all the dust
settled. If his serious civil engineering concerns were addressed, he
did not object to the proposed action.
MS. BEVERLY WILLIAMS, 73-132 Monterra Circle North in Palm
Desert, thought this was a sacrilege and she wanted to know who was
paid to allow for the developer to build that house in our mountains.
Vice Chairperson Finerty explained that the case she was referring to was
the next item on the agenda. The issue before them at this time related to a
lot line adjustment. She thought her testimony would be fitting for the next
case and thanked her.
There was no one else wishing to speak. Vice Chairperson Finerty invited
rebuttal comments.
Ms. Hanson said she would like to leave as an option, if possible, the
ability for them to provide a photometric study on the potential of
tennis court lights. Since they are seven feet below with a six-foot wall
around them, any of their lights would be below that wall level and
they would be happy to have some sort of demonstration showing that
the lighting level isn't any more significant than landscape lighting.
She said they would meet city standards for the lights.
Vice Chairperson Finerty asked if Ms. Hanson had any comments about the
structural integrity of the wall.
Ms. Hanson said she would look into it and promised that they would
not do anything to damage that wall in any way. It would be
addressed with their civil engineer.
Commissioner Tanner mentioned the sight lines from Ironwood and asked
if Bighorn would maintain them.
Ms. Hanson said the idea is that the shrubs would be maintained so
that the privacy for both lots, yet the sight lines would be maintained
without imposing any lack of privacy. She thought that Lot 5 was
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probably the one least affected and that Bighorn already said they
would provide a landscaped area drawing so they could see what
would be done in that regard. It had nothing really to do with their
proposal because that property is to the right of them and isn't
affected by the proposed project.
Vice Chairperson Finerty asked Mr. Drell for the City's policy on tennis court
lights in residential neighborhoods. Mr. Drell said that they are permitted and
the standards were in the Lighting Ordinance. He pointed out that during the
season, it gets dark about 4:30 p.m. That was one of the reasons staff
prefers depressed tennis courts. Lights are generally 10 feet high, but the
Ordinance addresses trespass light standards and the zoning ordinance
says tennis courts can be lit.
With that, Chairperson Finerty closed the public hearing and asked for
Commission comments.
Commissioner Tschopp said that although the proposed transfer is 66 feet
in width, staff limited the setback to 12 feet. He thought the architect did a
wonderful job of combining what could be two homes that could be very
obtrusive to the development to the south, the Ironwood residents, and put
in one home with tennis courts that would be much lower and would protect
some of the viewshed of owners of Lots 5, 6, 7 and even 8, so he thought
they did a very good job that way. He wanted to condition it that the tennis
court lights be limited to meeting Palm Desert's existing requirement for
lighting and that the landscaping that would occur in the proposed transfer
lot be approved or reviewed and approved by ARC. That would give the
neighbors a chance to look at it at that point in time and not be surprised by
something else. Other than that, he was in favor and thought it would work
out to the benefit of everyone involved.
Commissioner Tanner concurred with Commissioner Tschopp and
encouraged Bighorn to make sure that they do the photometric study and
eliminate the potential problems that could be created if there is spillover light
into the backyards of Ironwood. They were certainly not there to do any
encroachment or infringement and thought that had been displayed with
what has been proposed to them tonight. He heard that with certain
conditions and certain things that Bighorn needs to work with lot owners and
the homes themselves are perfectly okay. They are aesthetically good and
he didn't think would hurt the values of homes in Ironwood. But again, with
conditions that are in place with Architectural Review, with getting the studies
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and with living up to the structure of the walls and sights to be maintained.
With that, he was also in favor of the project.
Commissioner Campbell also concurred. She thought the architect did a
wonderful job. The encroachment she saw in this area was Lot 6 to have a
terrace in the middle so that they wouldn't be encroaching on the neighbors.
As Architect Hanson stated, they really didn't allow anything like that and she
was also in favor.
Vice Chairperson Finerty appreciated the cooperation of the neighbors being
willing to work with Bighorn and the Bighorn architect being amenable to the
neighbors' concerns. They do have standards for tennis court lights. It is an
approved use and those standards would be adhered to. She thought with
notice to the residents when the project goes to ARC, they could look at the
house, they could look at the shrubbery, look at the landscape plan and
make their determination. Also taking into consideration the integrity of the
wall, she thought the architect, Ms. Hanson, addressed the concerns of the
neighbors and concurred with her fellow Commissioners.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Tschopp, seconded by Commissioner
Tanner, approving the findings as presented by staff. Motion carried 4-0
(Chairperson Lopez was absent).
It was moved by Commissioner Tschopp, seconded by Commissioner
Tanner, adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 2418, approving
Case No. PMW 05-12, subject to conditions as amended. Motion carried 4-0
(Chairperson Lopez was absent).
C. Case No. HDP/PP 04-21 Amendment #1 - HAGADONE FAMILY
TRUST, Applicant
Request for approval of an amendment to a Hillside
Development Plan / Precise Plan hillside development
increasing the graded pad area for a residence located at 706
Summit Cove in the foothills of the Canyons at Bighorn Golf
Course.
Vice Chairperson Finerty stated that when the Commission arrived at the
meeting they received a packet of information which they had not had
adequate time to review and it was important that they be able to review all
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information in order to make an informed decision. Therefore, she was
asking the Commission if they would want to take a 15-minute recess to
review this information. Commission concurred.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Tanner, seconded by Commissioner
Campbell, calling for a 15-minute recess. Motion carried 4-0. The
Commission recessed at 6: 53 p.m.
AT 7:12 P.M., VICE CHAIRPERSON FINERTY RECONVENED THE MEETING.
Vice Chairperson Finerty explained to the audience that the Planning
Commission receives their packets on Friday and when they walked into the
meeting they received additional correspondence to review. They needed to
either take a recess or ask for a continuance and since there were so many
in attendance, they opted for the recess. She thanked the audience for their
patience while they reviewed the additional information and asked for staffs
report.
Mr. Bagato addressed the Commission and reviewed the staff report, noting
, that at this time there were no lights proposed for the sport court. And for the
reasons stated in the staff report, Mr. Bagato recommended denial of the
proposed expansion, but did recommend that given the confusion with the
pool and the error with the rough grading plan, that an "as-built" plan be
submitted totaling 47,941 square feet, so it would allow the pool to remain
and any grading that was miscalculated in the original plans. For the
additional area for the sports court, landscaping and water feature, staff was
recommending denial. He asked for any questions.
On the problems with the grading plan, Commissioner Tschopp asked if staff
independently calculated the square footage when they receive plans from
a developer. Mr. Bagato said that when they are identified on the cover
sheet, typically staff didn't. It was identified at 38,000 square feet and they
trust that the application and the applicant is submitting accurate information.
Commissioner Tschopp asked if it was correct that the pool was permitted.
Mr. Bagato said that was correct. Commissioner Tschopp summarized that
what the Commission was requested to deal with now was the 16,240 square
foot property addition. Mr. Bagato said it was the 13,091 minus the pool,
because the pool wasn't on the original plan, so they were kind of approving
the pool, but minus it was 13,091 square feet. Commissioner Tschopp said
that was what they were dealing with tonight. Mr. Bagato said that was
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correct. Commissioner Tschopp said the pool would remain and asked if
there were any plans or suggestions for screening the pool to the north. Mr.
Bagato said that was something that would have to be looked into. It wasn't
part of the application tonight.
There were no other questions for staff and Vice Chairperson Finerty opened
the public hearing and asked the applicant to address the Commission.
MR. JOHN BARLOW,Trustee for the Hagadone Family Trust, owners
of the Hagadone residence, 3403 Fernandhill Road in Coeur D'Alene,
Idaho, stated that he was present to request approval of an
amendment to the hillside development plan and precise grading plan
for the previously approved residence at 706 Summit Cove. The
approval of the precise grading plan submitted by RCE Engineers was
sent in on July 1, 2006. It involved the addition of 13,169 square feet
as Mr. Bagato alluded to, to be used for landscaping and features
including a sport court and adjacent flower beds.
He stated that he would like to give a chronology of what occurred to
get them to this point. The rough grading plan that was prepared by
Feiro was sent into the City of Palm Desert on October 15. The r.
square footage was noted, as Mr. Bagato indicated, the accurate
square footage as measured was the amount he said as well. The
precise grading plan prepared by Feiro was approved by the City on
January 20. In early 2005 they retained RCE Engineers to act as their
civil engineer to help them with the discrepancies and the conditions
they had with their previous engineer. During that time when the pool
drawings were submitted, RCE, working with the City, received
direction. Due to these discrepancies, the City would like to have them
prepare an as-built drawing condition of what was actually built and
they proceeded accordingly.
The pool permit drawings were approved by the City in October of
2005 and the pool as revised was constructed per the approved and
issued and amended pool permit at that time.
At the request of the City's Public Works Department after the
completion of the checking process, RCE submitted the final precise
grading plan on mylar on January of 2006 for signatures. When the
mylar was submitted to the Planning Department for signature, the
Planning Department raised the issues of concern. As a result of that,
in February of 2006 at the suggestion of Planning, a meeting was held
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at the City offices with representatives of Public Works, Building and
Planning. The direction from that meeting was to prepare the
documentation, present it to the Planning Commission tonight, as well
as the request for them to continue to work with the representatives
of Ironwood on the look of the office. Even though the issue of the
office was not before them tonight, he thought it was important to go
over what they have done in that regard.
Prior to this time, they heard from folks at Ironwood via their
President, Mr. Ron Dahl, and their concern was focused on the office
and the form of the artificial rock placed on top of and around the new
structure. A number of representatives from Ironwood, himself and
representatives from Bighorn met to review and discuss their
concerns. In fact, they met several times. They were always proactive
and wanted to be good listeners. Part of the issue was they
(themselves)weren't happy with the look of it as well. These meetings
took place in November of 2005 which was well before the meeting
that was held with the City by some three months. So they had
already started that process and were involved with trying to make
some corrections.
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These meetings were monitored by City Planning as they were
directed by Planning to do the following: Work on the office to get the
shape of the rock more natural looking, which they concurred needed
to be done; Prepare photos of the then existing condition, have them
computer generated to show corrections that they would propose and
get approval prior to doing any corrections. And then also submit a
revised precise grading plan for the additional site disturbance area
which was the technical and objective purpose of their meeting
tonight. This they did.
He showed several photos that he said were submitted at that time to
the representatives of Ironwood. They included actual photos taken
from various locations, views of the proposed improvements they felt
they could do to make the rock more natural, and actual photos taken
last week. Another photo was taken from the direction north by
northwest, the next a similar view. They could see from the original
the shape of the rock was very vertical and unnatural, and an actual
photo that looked considerably better than the proposed photo. One
photo was from Bighorn as they were not happy with it as well.
Another view was similar from the Ironwood direction.
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He noted that all this was done at their expense. They spent an
additional $350,000 with this additional rock. They wanted to be good
neighbors. There are portions of the office that now don't have a view
that it used to have to the northeast. At the same time they completed
the revised grading plan and submitted it to the City in July.
Mr. Barlow stated that the sport court is 1,500 square feet, 30 x 50,
the rest was flowers, sidewalk and water features. As shown on the
contours of the map, all of the grades were extensively higher than
this location, so there was no view from any direction other than the
home itself that would visualize this area.
During this process, as pointed out and as requested by Planning,
they had been asked to continually communicate with Ironwood and
in January they were asked to do so via their attorney. They have
correspondence that indicated their position such as, at this time,
Ironwood's Homeowner Association's concern with the high visibility
of the separate office structure. Further that communication indicates
the Ironwood Homeowners Association does not take issue with any
other features of the project.
WOO
There were some comments from audience members. Vice Chairperson
Finerty stated that they needed order and the applicant has the opportunity
to make his case and then the Planning Commission would listen to each of
them, so they needed to please show respect to all parties.
Mr. Barlow stated that they continued from March and on into June.
In March they had correspondence back and forth indicating the sport
court and the other landscaped area. They had every reason to
believe that they were familiar with what they were doing. They had
several meetings with the Ironwood people onsite showing them the
area and the fact that it did not have a visual impact and again, it
always focused back on the office. They were very proud that what
they said they would do they did. They got their blessing before they
did it and they thought it looked substantially better than it did at that
time.
Mr. Barlow said they agree wholeheartedly with the Planning staff that
the way to handle the finalization is an as-built drawing where the
improvements are. They were here to say in effect that the drawing
in front of the Planning Commission that was part of the application
is an as-built because it is a complete detailed plan that they hoped
n
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 19. 2006
to build to that does in fact have every item that has been discussed.
So technically the as-built has already been completed.
The next drawing he said was one also shown by Mr. Bagato
indicating the area in question tonight at 13,169 square feet. He
showed a landscaped plan for the benefit of those interested in the
use, that showed the types of materials to be used. The flower beds
were all designed by designer Bill Shinkle, a world-renowned flower
botanist who did all the work at the Bellaggio and at the Wynn
Resorts.There were no trees. One of the Ironwood residents they met
with in January who lives immediately below the office said the only
concern he had was that he didn't want to see any trees. So there
was a lot of discussion that took place and a lot of people in Ironwood,
and obviously they couldn't meet with all of them, but they started with
their President and representatives. Whenever they wanted to meet,
they were happy to do so.
Finally, Mr. Barlow wanted to point out that in spite of the request, a
part of the original approval from the City included the deeding to the
City in the form of a conservation easement of 4.13 acres. That would
remain exactly the same. Referring to the map, he showed the area
of improvement and the conservation easement area,which remained
exactly the same. So they formally and respectfully requested
approval of this amendment to revise the site disturbance plan and
the approval plan for the additional 13,169 feet.
Commissioner Tschopp said that Mr. Bagato pointed out that the pool was
not part of this hearing, but Commissioner Tschopp was interested to hear
the plans what plans they had to screen the pool to the north, if there were
any. When he looked at it from below, there was a lot of plastic up there, so
he questioned if it was a misleading view at this point in time.
Mr. Barlow said yes, the pool itself has the same edge detail as the
pool as it was originally approved. It has an infinity edge and about 30
inches of exposed structure on the north side, the Ironwood side. That
edge was all done in a bevel creek material that will match the color
of the hillside. Up to and below that they already placed natural rock
and recolored the rock to put it back into its natural state. Here in the
desert, it gets very warm and the pool on the interior is all tiled and
they were required not to allow the temperature to exceed 90
degrees. So to work through the summer, they built a temporary
structure over the pool and have large air-conditioning equipment
Now
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 19, 2006
there to cool that area so they could install the tile. What they see
now is a temporary structure that is within a week or so of being
removed. It would be gone forever. The amount of area that would be
eventually seen is the small area where the infinity edge comes over
and the rest blends into the natural rock.
Commissioner Tanner asked when the Feiro group did their original plan, if
they were held accountable for the additional 6,000 feet that really was
encroached on. If they went through the process and granted 38,000 square
feet of grading and it actually ended up being 44,000, he asked if there was
accountability on their part. They couldn't to go back and get that back now.
Mr. Barlow stated that the drawing was correct, as indicated by the
model. It had the appropriate amount of area. For some reason, and
they didn't know about it until a week ago when Mr. Bagato and staff
found out, that it had the wrong square footage number on the plan.
That was one of the reasons they were removed two years ago. But
it was because they had other errors where the building didn't fit the
site exactly right and it had to be nestled in. But the plan they
approved was accurate and the same. The label of the square
footage was incorrect. The part of the approval, from his Wei
understanding two years ago, was for the plan the Commission saw
in front of them and that was correct.
There were no other questions. Vice Chairperson Finerty asked for any
testimony in FAVOR of the project. There was no response. Vice
Chairperson Finerty asked for testimony in OPPOSITION. Before starting,
Vice Chairperson Finerty stated that she understood that there was a lot of
emotion and asked speakers to limit their comments to five minutes and
please not repeat comments that have already been made and thanked
them.
MR. GUNNAR HAASE, 73-203 Ribbonwood Court in Palm Desert. He
stated that he looked at this project from the beginning almost like a
comedy of errors. One of the things in the meeting they had back in
December with certain people from the City was that there was going
to be mediation for the office. He could see the pool, but they weren't
supposed to be able to see any roof lines from the Ironwood property.
If they go out there now, what they see are roof lines from the
Hagadone residence.
NA
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 19. 2006
He really felt that when going through this process there have been
a lot errors and omissions by people, both probably in the City and
from the Hagadone people. They talked about 38,000 square feet that
grows to 44,000 square feet and now they want 47,000 square feet
to be approved. They grade before they have approvals for that. They
put in pools larger than what was authorized. It seemed to be once
something is approved, once something is done, it gets approved.
What would they do if they had a homeowner that was only supposed
to build 20 feet high in the roof who built his house 30 feet high?
Would they then say they'll approve that because it is an exception
and he already has it built? It's already in place? Why did they get
grade before they got approvals to grade? Why do they do things? In
other words, he assumed there was an inspector that went up there
and looked at the grading and would be able to then say this isn't
38,000 square feet, it's closer to 47,000 square feet.
They allowed them to destroy the ridgeline that was pristine to
Ironwood. It's gone. It can't be recaptured. They can't tear out the
pool, but they're approving a pool that was larger than what was
originally on the plans. That's what he was hearing. From his
standpoint he couldn't see the sports court, he couldn't see anything
else, but his feeling is enough is enough. The plan should only go to
what the Planning Commission approves or what was recommended,
47,000. They should take the land they have graded and put it back
into natural conditions, forget about a squash court and only allow
them to have the additional area for the pool that has been
completed. To him that was giving them something because if
somebody else had done this, maybe they would have them modify
the pool to make it smaller to fit within the grading plan. So he
appreciated what they've done for the office, but to him the City
allowed them to destroy the ridgeline.
MR. JOHN GODFREY, 49-771 Canyon View Drive in Palm Desert,
stated that he is the President of Ironwood Country Club. In all due
respect to the statements made earlier, he has been the President for
the last eight months and he has had no communication at all from
any Hagadone representatives. Ironwood Country Club presently has
800 members. With their spouses that totals about 1,500 people. The
Board of Directors of Ironwood Country Club on behalf of their
members vigorously object to the petition by the Hagadone Family
Trust to expand the approved graded area of the project from the
approved 38,000 square feet to over 61,000 square feet. The
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 19, 2006
expansion is in conflict with the Hillside Development Ordinance. They
feel strongly that the City of Palm Desert should start enforcing the
Hillside Development Ordinance with more strength to protect their
hillsides from such intrusive developments.
Ironwood homeowners and club members have had their hillside
views seriously compromised by the development of the Hagadone
property. Denying the current request for expansion would prevent
further compromises to the hillside and their views. He thanked the
Commission for their consideration in this matter.
MR. LAURENCE SUTTER, 49-220 Quercus Lane in Ironwood, stated
that he is a full-time Ironwood resident, President of one of the
Homeowner Associations that has 89 homes very close to the
Hagadone property. He is also a member of the Board of Directors of
the Ironwood Master Association which represents 1,100
homeowners including the HOA's for central facilities. They were here
to also object to this extension.
He said they couldn't really talk about this extension without talking
about where they are today and he thought some of the frustration
from the people present is they feel they didn't have a forum. He just
learned about the project when they saw the crane one morning
around a year ago. He was part of the team of three or four people
who visited with John Barlow and Hagadone development people last
December. He said that John's description was correct. They were
very accommodating and listened to their concerns, which were
primarily the office and the pool. They were responsive and did make
efforts to minimize the impact on the hillside. They were also told, as
mentioned earlier by someone else, that they would not see any of
the roofs, but they would just see a little foot and half or two feet of
the pool and some version of the office.
They really appreciated the effort they made and they were
responsive, but if they looked at it today, it was still a major major
intrusion on the hillside. It was sure not what they expected.
He said he talked to Bill Ebert from The Reserve the other day and
Bill asked him to come by tonight with photographs and things. (Note:
The letter and photos referenced were submitted by Marie Mack later
in the meeting and are on file in the Department of Community
Development.) The President of the Reserve wanted to be present,
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 19, 2006
but it was off season and he wasn't around and didn't have a chance
to respond. He thanked the Planning Commission people who he
assumed were responsible for mailing notices on this petition to
individual homeowners in Ironwood. There was a big mystery last time
about notification and individual homeowners were never notified.
This time someone took it upon themselves to notify 200 of them and
they really appreciated it.
Mr. Sutter said he had four quick points. Serious errors have been
made with this project before, one after another. They feel the City of
Palm Desert made a very serious error in approving this project and
the development standards should have been applied to be in
harmony with the stated intention and that didn't happen. He was
going to read his four points, but Mr. Bagato referred to some of them.
He would highlight one or two.
The intent and purpose says to encourage only minimal grading in the
hillside area and it talked about blending with the natural terrain and
retaining and protecting viewsheds and natural landmarks. In their
opinion, all of these provisions were greatly compromised.
They felt the expansion should be stopped. The ordinance talks about Now
10,000 square feet. If they were to okay this, it would expand it to
61,000 square feet which is a huge amount and they think it is grossly
excessive and unnecessary. They also felt that if they stretch these
development residential standards beyond their intention, that creates
an exception that will devour the rule and become a very bad
precedent for future projects.
Mr. Sutter said they request that they provide some protections.
Should the Planning Commission in their wisdom elect to approve
this, they have concerns about the sports court, the water features
and landscaping. Right now they don't appear to intrude on Ironwood
views, but if they add lighting to a sports court or to a landscaped
area, he didn't want to look up at the hill and see some unnatural
lighting up there. They were concerned actually as it stands that once
the compound is occupied, there will be lights in that office and that
will further intrude on their situation.
If they should decide to approve this, they requested a condition of
approval that such elements are forbidden.
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 19, 2006
They thought the Commission really needed to strengthen the
standards of compliance. This project already has had the benefit of
great indulgence from the City for what is an architecturally
challenging and unique project. They have an opportunity now to
prevent needless disturbance of the mountain terrain and set a
standard for stricter compliance now and in the future for hillside
development.
Therefore, the Ironwood Master Association representing 1,100 home
owners in Ironwood respectfully requested that the Planning
Commission deny the application for amendment to the Hagadone
plan to expand the previously approved area.
MS. MARIE MACK, 74-399 Highway 111, Suite M in Palm Desert,
stated that she is the attorney retained by the Ironwood Master
Association to assist in interfacing with the project applicant
concerning this project. The Commission had her letter on her firm
letterhead concerning her points, so she wouldn't reiterate those. She
did want to talk a little about the interactions she has had with the
applicant concerning the project up until this point.
When the members of Ironwood realized what appeared to be the
scope of this project and how it would truly be impacting their
mountain viewsheds and vistas from the north, they became quite
alarmed and retained her to interface with them, particularly with
regard to the office. She put up a picture of how the office looks now
from The Reserve, the neighboring community. The Reserve also
asked her to speak up on their behalf tonight in opposition to the
project.
Nobody seemed to have a great picture showing quite, from
Ironwood, how prominent the office is. She showed the office now
with the rockwork that has been done. She commended the
Hagadone people for responding to their concerns. When this office
was first built, they called it the flying saucer. There was just a large
glass structure up there that was transparent and completely not
naturalized with the surrounding mountain and it was quite quite a mar
upon the natural scenery.
She met up there with some Ironwood representatives and they all
expressed that they would like to see some serious rockwork to blend
that in with the natural rock up there. If they had ever been up there,
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 19. 2006
it was completely pulverized up there. They have done a serious
amount of work to blend it with the mountain and she understood it
cost in excessive of $300,000 to do it. They also understood that it
was always Mr. Hagadone's intention to have this sort of rockwork
and they may have been reacting to a preliminary or first stage look
of that office when they were so unhappy.
Having said that, and her pictures might not make it crystal clear and
she would submit the rest of the photos for the record, the work that
has been done while expensive and extensive was not blending. If
they looked at it from Ironwood, it was not blending in texture, it was
not blending in color and was still very obviously an artificial
imposition on what was formerly a beautiful undisturbed view. She
was wondering whether the Commission doesn't have the ability at
this point if they wanted to approve this application to condition it that
they do some further softening or mitigation or something cosmetic
with the rockwork that has already been done. She wasn't proposing
that it be demolished and understood it was permitted, but possibly
something could be done to better integrate the look. Far be it from
her to say what that might be, but they have some great experts on
their staff and maybe it could be further blended.
Ms. Mack said those were her comments about the office and she
submitted her photos (and The Reserve letter). She stated that they
have the concern that although in the future the sport court was not
proposed at the present time to have lighting, who knows five years
down the road someone could decide that's a good idea. They don't
ever want to see lighting up there. They were hoping that the
landscape plan she understood had been proposed wouldn't involve
any lighting that would be intrusive from the north. They wanted to
make sure that Ironwood was fully involved in weighing in on that and
also weighing in on whether or not there are ever any trees that
artificially intrude above the ridgeline. Those were concerns they had.
They understood that the project proposed tonight did not include
those elements, but if they were inclined to approve it, they would love
to see those sorts of conditions attached.
In general they didn't favor the project, notwithstanding their attempts
to be responsive. She thought everyone felt it was just one step too
far and they would like to see the line drawn somewhere to enforce
this ordinance. It was more than just a matter of principal. These are
our mountains and grading and disturbance that happens up there is
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 19. 2006
forever and they needed to get busy enforcing that ordinance. She
thanked them.
MS. SUSAN PAULL, a home owner in Monterra, stated that she is a
past President and HOA Board of Director acting right now. She was
here on behalf of herself and members of her Homeowners
Association and the entire Palm Desert community for people who live
out as far as Portola and out on Country Club who can see this
project. She was sure some of them come down the street and can
see it too. She said it was ironic that the last time she was in this
building was begging for access to the mountains because it was a
CVAG hearing and they were restricting hikers' access to these
beautiful mountains as pictured on the wall behind them. The goal,
she felt and which the City of Palm Desert was a signature of, was
CVAG's ordinance on mountains and the protection of them.
Ms. Paul stated that she was really disappointed. She felt that if they
as a Planning Commission had actually made a visit to the site prior
to the development, it never would have been developed. She
pictured these beautiful mountains as pictured on the wall and asked
how they would if she walked up there with a black marking pen and
on the ridgeline drew a big house and that's exactly what they look at
when they're in their car driving up Portola toward the mountains or
Monterey. It is a blight.
But they weren't here to discuss the past mistakes. As far as the
expansion is concerned, they weren't happy with what has happened
already. They feel it was done irresponsibly. Give an inch, take a mile.
They didn't properly oversee what was being developed. It just kept
going on and on and on. It was give an inch take a mile. She was
disappointed and was afraid if they didn't put a stop to it right now
what they would be looking at is even more destruction and disaster
to our mountains. She thanked them.
MR. RICHARD SEARLE, 73-380 Poinciana Place in Ironwood, stated
that he supported all the officials of their corporation, membership
committees and other speakers. As an individual he supported what
they had to say. He thought what has happened here has caused a
blight on the mountain top. He wouldn't add anything new which they
haven't already said; however, one point he did notice was a
comment on the map regarding renaturalized areas. If the
renaturalization of the area was similar to what they've done to the
. r
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 19. 2006
.o
office, that wasn't really going to make the appearance like it is today.
He thought this should not be approved to go forward. He thanked
them.
MS. CONNOR LAMONT, 72-720 Bel Air in Palm Desert, stated that
to say they made a mistake was an understatement. They all agree
with that and all they have left is to ask them to please stop it now.
They were all that was standing between going forward and
continuing the mistake. She asked on behalf of the residents that they
please vote no on this. She thanked them.
MR. PAUL BLUME, 73-155 Crosby Lane in Palm Desert, addressed
the Commission. He said pretty much everything had already been
said. The important thing is the future. He just found out tonight that
there's no law saying that they have to inform the residents
surrounding such a structure as this except within 300 feet and
obviously this is beyond the limit for Ironwood Country Club. But for
realism, the entire Coachella Valley has been affected by this
structure and he thought there should be something in the future for
them to do to inform them, the constituents that put them in office, to
keep them informed as to what this is going to be like. He thought
they would find a lot more people objecting to what has been done
already. He thanked them.
There was no one else requesting to speak. Vice Chairperson Finerty asked
if Mr. Barlow would like time for rebuttal comments.
Mr. Barlow said that they were obviously sorry that so many people
were upset with the house that's there today, but he thought it was
important to remember that they went through due process. Two
years ago they came to the Planning Commission and City Council
with full disclosure of what they were going to build and got approval.
In fact, unanimous approval. And again, he couldn't change that and
who was noticed then and who wasn't noticed is not really their
responsibility. They liked to be good neighbors and wanted to be good
neighbors and thought they would find them to be excellent
neighbors. He hoped that none of these people were upset with them
personally.
The roof lines being said that they would not be visible was not an
accurate statement. They never represented that at all. The majority
of the building is not visible, but there are a handful that are. All of
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 19 2006
those that are are covered with the copper material they bought from
Germany that comes precolored with the color of that mountain. He
wanted them to at least wait until it is completed and see the finished
product and then be a little more objective in their decision because
they have done a lot to try and blend this into the mountain. Stone on
the siding that blends into the mountain was brought in from India. All
of this was part of why they approved this in the first place is because
the construction and design presented to them and what they have
built was to be able to blend into the hillside.
There had been discussion about minimal grading in the hillside and
not allowing any more per the ordinance. If they read the ordinance,
it says minimum grading in the hillside areas that relate to the natural
contours of the land, avoiding extensive cut and fill slopes that result
in padding or staircase effect within the development. None of that is
what they were proposing. There was no padding or staircase effect
involved. In fact, none of it was visible from anybody. So it is not in
conflict with what the ordinance says.
Mr. Barlow noted that there was a comment that they graded before
approvals which was not true. The project like any project has to have
access and lay down areas to be built. Those same areas if not
approved would be renaturalized, but in order to have access to build
the building, those areas were graded. So they didn't believe that to
be an accurate statement.
The pools as they knew were already approved and that was a matter
that has been taken care of previously. And contrary to the opinion of
what was said, they were directly told in writing to deal with the
attorney, Marie Mack. And as she testified, they have. Even beyond
that and after they were told that, he made several calls to the only
contact he had to Mr. Ron Dahl and indicated that he wanted to make
sure that if there were any questions, they still had an opportunity to
meet with him. The last time he talked to him he indicated that he was
no longer President and he asked Mr. Dahl to please pass along that
invitation to anybody else that's appropriate.
Mr. Barlow thought they went out of their way as has been testified on
their side that the communication was wide open. And this was all
with respect to the office, which as they knew tonight was not even
part of what the request is regarding. The request in front of them
tonight dealt with this 13,169 square feet. It wasn't visible to anybody
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 19 2006
but the Hagadones. That was the question in front of them. And that
is their request to the Commission. If they would like to, and they'd
already made comment to staff, the Commission could condition that
there would be no sport court lighting. At one point in time they had
intended to do so and Planning had great concern about that. His
initial response was that they would put it in in a mock up condition
and they would look at it and they could decide if it was offensive or
not. And later, as they reconsidered, they decided it wasn't. They just
wouldn't do it. So if they wanted to condition it, there would be no
lighting for the sport court.
Mr. Barlow said there had been comment made regarding that they
were running amok without any contact with the City. Nothing could
be further from the truth. They have had constant contact with the
City. They had with all departments. The Building Department is up
there virtually every day. They had many meetings with the Planning
staff when they had their original concerns. There were meetings with
the Public Works Department when they dealt with the pool and got
the pool permitted. Whenever they had a discrepancy, they talked to
them and asked what to do. That's where the conclusion came that
it was suggested that an as-built drawing be done to clarify exactly for
the record where the grading limits were and where they would be
eventually and that's exactly what they did.
So they felt like they have been as responsive as they could. They
realize there are people who are not happy with what they see and
they really are sorry about that. They'd like it to be judged when it is
completed and would like them to realize that they did go through due
process and got the proper permits and went through the proper
hearings and it had the proper legal notice and had built this building
accordingly. So again, the question tonight in front of them is if it is
okay for them to extend the landscaping and the sport court into the
area 13,169 square feet that is not visible to any other party but the
Hagadones.
Commissioner Tschopp asked if the sports court was always part of the
original plan and if the additional water features that are part of this 13,000
feet they were talking about now, if they were on the original plans.
Mr. Hagadone said the water feature that came out of the hillside in
that area was always a part of the plan, but not in that location. It
wasn't that far away from the structure. The fish pond it comes out of
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is new. So that was not part of the original plan. The sport court has
always been in the owner's plan, but it was not in the plans submitted
to the City. It was a desire that the owner had and talked to their
architect about. Schematic design plans they had almost three years
ago still showed the note of the trail that goes to the sport court. It
never got designed, it never got included and was never permitted. So
that's why they were here tonight. It was a desire they had and
something they wanted, but was not part of the original submittal.
He said it's a very complex site if they had seen it. It was not like a
developed, graded flat piece of ground that they do a drawing on and
they layout what they want to put on it for improvements. It's very
irregular. It has little crooks and nooks, hills and rocks and to nestle
a structure into that site on a piece of paper, even to survey it, was
nearly impossible. So that was part of how some of this came to be
at a later date because once it is nestled in and they see how it fits
with the lay of the land, there was an area that could be developed
that was just sitting there.
Commissioner Tschopp said that when he walked the project site, he
remembered the area where the sports court would go, where the water «.
pond would go, was relatively flat and very unattractive. If they had to
renaturalize it, he asked what they would be doing exactly.
Mr. Barlow said they would be putting native rock back into that
location in random patterns and locations.
Commissioner Tschopp asked if it would remain relatively flat as it is now.
Mr. Barlow said yes.
Commissioner Tschopp said that basically they would be adding some
desert plants and some rocks.
Mr. Barlow said not much plant grows on that hill naturally.
There were no other questions. Vice Chairperson Finerty closed the public
hearing and asked the Commission for comments.
Commissioner Tschopp said this was certainly difficult. Concerns and
frustrations he heard had to do with the existing house and the office that are
on the ridgeline. The errors that have been made on it have been done. It's
..r�r
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too late to change that and what they see is what they are going to get now,
hopefully with some better modification to it to hide the pool and some other
things a little bit better than they are. But the piece of property in question is
situated next to the home such that no one else can see it. No one else has
access to it and in essence when you walk around up there, it basically is a
side yard to a single family residence. A very large single family residence
that is not seen, not impacting anyone else, and no one else can get to it. A
couple of questions he asked Mr. Barlow had to do with if they renaturalized
it, what it would look like. Well, it would look like a flat piece of desert with
some rocks and a few extra plants on it. Nothing they would ever see and
nothing that would impact them.
Although the sheer magnitude of the grading up there seemed excessive,
Commissioner Tschopp said this piece impacts no one else, no one else has
access to it and he thought to deny this tonight would be a punitive measure
on their part to say they don't like the house, they don't like the office so they
were going to take this as a matter of standing in saying this to take a shot
at them for what else has gone up there that they maybe errored on. So he
was going to have to say at this point in time that he is in favor of the 13,169
square foot area to be used for the court and water features. Primarily for the
reasons he stated. It is not impacting them, it won't change anything up there
right now, no one else would have access to it and it served them no
purpose to deny it at this point in time because what they see right now is still
what they are going to get.
Commissioner Tanner said he wished he had a little more time to digest this
whole issue. From purely a standpoint of Ironwood and what they've gone
through and what they would continue to go through as residents there, they
couldn't fix that. They didn't have a way to fix the views they had. They are
sitting there today and deciding on whether or not they grant an additional
13,000 square feet of pad. He heard their cries and concerns about what
happens if they do this and are they opening the floodgate on more and
additional areas growing in the mountains. He was here to tell them that he
is new to the Commission, and he was not going to say he would not have
approved the original Hagadone designs, he was just here to tell them that
if this does go through, and he was inclined also to say that they should go
ahead and let it happen, and maybe it wasn't beautifying the mountain, but
at least it wasn't affecting Ironwood from a site standpoint.
He was here to tell them that something that comes in front of him at this
Commission will be explored thoroughly and with due diligence not to allow
this to happen again. Whether it is Feiro at fault for designing the pad and
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giving them larger area to expand on, he didn't know, but with the conditions
that the Hagadones are willing to grant them with no lighting, and he would
also suggest that they minimize or eliminate all lighting in the landscape area
as a condition to approve. He would have to go along with his fellow
Commissioner here and say that with the conditions that have been
presented, he would approve this. But he wanted them to know, these kinds
of things were not going to happen in the future.
Commissioner Campbell said that what is in front of them is just the 13,000
square feet that already has been graded and they could not change the
appearance of the house and that has gone through its due process and
everything that has been done to that has been legal about it. (A couple of
audience members called out comments as they were walking out.)
Commissioner Campbell said she was speaking and continued. She said
after visiting that area, since the land has already been graded, to her it
looked like it was anybody's residential sideyard. It was a private area and
it is a flat area. They would go ahead and have the sports court that would
not be seen by anyone, either Ironwood or Bighorn. It is going to be private
for only the residents. The rock formation and the landscaping that will be put
back to normal again in the areas not used for the flower beds or stream will
be very natural. In due process also, the roof of the house will probably be
changing in color just because of the environment. Again, as far as Ironwood
was concerned, she felt for them, but again, Planning didn't need to send
notices out for more than 300 feet.
Vice Chairperson Finerty noted that one of the speakers tonight talked about
a comedy of errors and that was clearly what has happened. She understood
that when Feiro came out there was a plan submitted and the actual plan
showed approximately 44,000 square feet. However, the calculation they
were told was 38,000 square feet. That was error number one.
Error number two was when City staff did not check that calculation and if
they learn anything from this experience, it is that from now on, regardless
of what's on the front sheet, City staff needs to recheck the calculation of the
engineer. Then they come to the pool. The pool was permitted before City
staff looked at the actual plan. So they learned that a permit should not have
been issued until the plans were thoroughly inspected. That is staff's job.
Now they have a pool that is built, more grading than what they thought, and
those conditions exist.
They have an area by the office where there is work that has been done in
an attempt to camouflage and blend into the mountain that outcropping and
.err
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 19 2006
the office. It was her understanding that members of Ironwood participated
and said that this would be a better thing to do in an attempt to camouflage
it. But from what they were hearing tonight, what they saw on paper has
really not improved to the extent that we had hoped with regard to
camouflaging the office and having it blend in. She didn't know if there was
any more work to be done in that area. She didn't know if that was the final
project. From what they were hearing about the pool, there is still more to be
done.
So they have had error upon error and now they are faced with the situation
to allow further grading. They heard the fellow Commissioners talk about this
being an area that does not affect anyone else. But the testimony they heard
tonight, despite it not affecting anyone from Ironwood or anyone in Bighorn,
their wishes are still to deny it. She struggled with that because it doesn't
affect anyone else. It is not going to right the wrong. By denying this it did not
correct these errors.
Vice Chairperson Finerty stated that it is important as Commissioners that
they view specifically what is before them. What is before them shows that
nothing will be effected. The ordinance states that they are not to have the
views impacted. That is the spirit of the ordinance. What is before them
tonight shows that it has not been and will not be impacted. Nevertheless, in
reading all of their concerns, it was apparent that they all already understood
that. What's in the phrases are that nevertheless they feel it should be
stopped. They still feel this should not be allowed. She couldn't in good
conscience go along with that knowing that this is not going to impact the
view. Their correspondence is relevant in saying when will this stop and she
very much had concern with the hillsides. She did not want them impacted.
And this project has not turned out as they had hoped when they looked at
the office area. They have some minimal issues with the pool.
But her duty tonight is to look at the application before her. And that
application was not going to affect anyone's view. Therefore, she was going
to concur with her fellow Commissioners. At this time, they have only been
presented with a resolution to deny the project. It is their job for the
Commission then to direct staff to prepare a different resolution. She asked
if there was a Commissioner wanting to do that.
Action:
Commissioner Tschopp made a motion directing staff to draft up a resolution
of approval adding that any water features and landscaping proposed for the
extended graded area, make sure that the lighting and landscaping elements
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 19 2006
do not impact any surrounding areas. Commissioner Campbell seconded the
motion. Vice Chairperson Finerty called for the vote. Motion carried 4-0
(Chairperson Lopez was absent). Vice Chairperson Finerty said there would
be no resolution for adoption tonight.
Mr. Haase spoke up from the audience.Vice Chairperson Finerty understood
that the public hearing was closed; however, because of the concern she
would allow him to come up to the lectern and speak into the microphone so
they have it for the record.
MR. HAASE stated that he understood the position they took. It
doesn't impact Ironwood. But he wished the Planning Commission
would put, and their report states and he would read from it and he
was the one who said in the meeting they had that there would be no
ridgeline or no houseline shown and also said that the rough grading
was done without...it says in their own report that the expanded area
for the sports court and landscaping that has been rough graded will
need to be renaturalized. To him, what the report was saying was that
someone went ahead and graded it. Now he might be mistaken and
if that was the roads going up there, that was something different. But
he hoped that the Planning Commission would put two companies
under a lot of scrutiny when they submit plans. One is Feiro
Construction and the other is RCE Consultants because to him it was
their errors and submissions and things that were put around he
thought that created all this havoc. He thought that if they did that,
and he understood that he would never see the landscaping over
there and that didn't bother him. But it did bother him that their own
report said that the rough grading was done prior to any approvals
and he thought those two companies really created a lot of errors.
They submitted grading plans they knew that the pool was outside the
38,000 square feet and went ahead. He thought those things, and if
he was a contractor and did something like that, that was almost an
act that maybe the City Attorney should look into, is to say why did
they do it before they had approval to build it. If they knew it was
38,000 and it was calculated wrong, why didn't when they found out
bring it to the City's attention and say it is 44,000 but we're going to
need 47,000 and now we want 61,000. He thought those were the
things that bothered him the most about what happened.
Vice Chairperson Finerty agreed with him and that's why in her comments
she said that from now on she believed that staff needs to calculate all of
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 19, 2006
that regardless of what's on the front page so they don't have the further
error and before any pool permits or any other permits are issued that the
plans need to be looked at and approved. She regretted the errors that have
been made by all parties.
Mr. Haase said that was all he had to say and thanked them.
MR. JOHN BARLOW stated that he really knew how unorthodox this
was, so he would make it quick. He said the problems were Feiro
Engineering. The problems were corrected by RCE. If it hadn't been
for RCE, they wouldn't have found any of this. Their drawings have
been accurate to the tenth of an inch. He thought the staff could
support that. So for the record, if that went into the record, that was
not accurate. He thanked them.
IX. MISCELLANEOUS
None.
X. COMMITTEE MEETING UPDATES
A. ART IN PUBLIC PLACES
Commissioner Campbell reported that there was no meeting.
B. LANDSCAPE COMMITTEE
Vice Chairperson Finerty stated that the landscape meeting would be
tomorrow.
C. PROJECT AREA 4 COMMITTEE
Vice Chairperson Finerty stated that the Project Area 4 was
informational.
D. PARKS & RECREATION
Commissioner Tanner reported on the Parks & Recreation
Commission meeting.
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XI. COMMENTS
Vice Chairperson Finerty stated that the next meeting would be October 3,
2006.
XII. ADJOURNMENT
It was moved by Vice Chairperson Finerty, seconded by Commissioner
Campbell, adjourning the meeting by minute motion. Motion carried 4-0
(Chairperson Lopez was absent). The meeting was adjourned at 8:27 p.m.
PHILIP DREL , Secretary
TTEST:
CI DY FINEAfY, Vice Chair rson
Palm Desert Planning Commission
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