HomeMy WebLinkAbout0205 ����� MINUTES
� PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
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TUESDAY - FEBRUARY 5, 2008
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I. CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Tschopp called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m.
Ii. ROLL CALL
Members Present: Dave Tschopp, Chair
Van Tanner, Vice Chair
Sonia Campbell
Connor Limont
Mari Schmidt
Members Absent: None
Staff Present: Lauri Aylaian, Director of Community Development
Bob Hargreaves, Deputy City Attorney
Tony Bagato, Principal Planner
Ryan Stendell, Associate Planner
Kevin Swartz, Assistant Planner
Mark Diercks, Transportation Engineer
Tonya Monroe, Administrative Secretary
III. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Commissioner Tanner led in the pledge of allegiance.
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Request for consideration of the January 15, 2008 meeting minutes.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Tanner, seconded by Commissioner Limont,
approving the January 15, 2008 meeting minutes. Motion carried 5-0.
V. SUMMARY OF COUNCIL ACTION
Ms. Aylaian summarized pertinent January 24, 2008 City Council actions.
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 5. 2008
VI. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
None.
VII. CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Case Nos. HTE 07-71 and PMW 07-21 - MAY GARDEN &
ASSOCIATES, LLC, Applicant
Request for approval of a parcel map waiver to adjust the
lot line between Parcel 14 and Parcel 15 to separate the
recently approved Candlewood Hotel and the restaurant.
The property is identified as 75-048 Gerald Ford Drive and
75-096 Gerald Ford Drive 1APN's 653-690-076 and 653-
690-0771.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Tanner, seconded by Commissioner
Campbell, approving the Consent Calendar by minute motion. Motion
carried 5-0.
VIII. PUBLIC HEARINGS
Anyone who challenges any hearing matter in court may be limited to raising
only those issues he, she or someone else raised at the public hearing
described herein, or in written correspondence delivered to the Planning
Commission at, or prior to, the public hearing.
A. Case No. TPM 35870 - NEDRAC INC. / DAVID CARDEN, Applicant
Request for approval of a Tentative Parcel Map to subdivide a
.50-acre parcel with an existing 6,935 square foot building into
four separate parcels with common parking for sale purposes.
Subject project is located at 77-621 Enfield Lane (APN 626-
320-014).
Mr. Swartz reviewed the staff report. He recommended adoption of the
findings and the draft resolution approving Parcel Map 35870, subject to the
conditions of approval.
Commissioner Limont asked for confirmation that the request was simply a
division of an existing building for sale purposes. Mr. Swartz said that was
correct.
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Chairperson Tschopp o ened the public hearing and asked the applicant to
address the Commission. There was no response. Chairperson Tschopp
asked if the applicant was present. The applicant was absent. Chairperson
Tschopp asked for any testimony in FAVOR or OPPOSITION to the
proposed project. There was none and the public hearing was closed. He
asked the Commission for comments.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner
Limont, adopting the findings as presented by staff. Motion carried 5-0.
It was moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner
Limont, adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 2466 approving Case
No. TPM 35870, subject to conditions. Motion carried 5-0.
B. Case Nos. PP 07-10, CUP 07-18 and VAR 07-02 - DAVIS STREET
LAND COMPANY, Applicant
Request for a recommendation to City Council for approval of
a Precise Plan of Design, including a Conditional Use Permit
and Variance, to allow a 27,000 square foot addition to the
existing Saks 5th Avenue at the existing Gardens on EI Paseo,
demolition of the existing EI Paseo Village (located between
San Pablo and Lupine Lane), construction of a 72,474 square
foot two-story retail, office and restaurant development with
parking structure, and adoption of a Mitigated Negative
Declaration as it relates to the project thereto. Subject
properties are located at 73-545 EI Paseo (Gardens on EI
Paseo, APN 627-261-006) and 73-425 EI Paseo (EI Paseo
Village, APN 627-252-004 and 005).
Mr. Stendell reviewed the staff report. He noted a change to the parking
information in the staff report. For the Saks expansion, he had indicated that
there would be a possible loss of 40 to 45 parking spaces. He had been
corrected today by the applicant after completing a site walk. They would be
losing 27 full-sized spaces and 7 golf cart spaces. Those were the actual
numbers he was assured would be lost as a result of the Saks expansion.
On the EI Paseo Village portion, he indicated that there would be 298 parking
spaces, not 302. Mr. Stendell stated that a revised draft resolution was
distributed. It contained some changes, which were highlighted in yellow,
after discussions with the City Attorney and applicant. Staff recommended
approval of the findings and adoption of the resolution recommending to City
Council approval. He asked for any questions.
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Commissioner Tanner asked if this was a package deal with the 27,000
square foot addition to Saks contingent upon the Village and vice versa. Mr.
Stendell stated that the project was submitted as a combined project.
Commissioner Campbell asked for additional information about the parking
to the rear. As background, Mr. Stendell explained that one of the first
components staff started to examine when the application came in was they
all realized there is an over abundance of parking most of the times at the
existing EI Paseo Gardens structure. What they tried to do was some
monitoring there and they also relied heavily on the management team at
The Gardens who have been collecting data on their structure for the last five
years four times a day. He said it is very good data and was used by staff.
From that data, staff extracted that in the peak season that high end market
is using a little over three spaces per 1,000 at peak. That was determined
along with our Transportation Engineers, Director of Public Works, Planning
staff, and others.
They really looked at parking for the new proposal and the Village, and our
parking requirements do not dictate anything for a mixed-use project like this,
something that encompasses office, restaurant and retail. Staff has argued
in the past that four spaces per 1,000 is adequate and in this high end level
of retail, they are actually seeing that is a little too much parking. So what
they were comfortable with, and what they were asking of the Planning
Commission, and if approved, ultimately of the City Council as well, is to
agree that 3.25 spaces per 1,000 is an adequate level of parking for this type
of a use which, with the addition of the structure and the provided parking,
is actually 3.5 spaces per 1,000 because the depth worked out that way. At
this current level, staff felt they could accommodate not only what they are
losing across the street from the Saks expansion, but also future growth.
They all know that conditional use permits come around and it is nice to have
that extra parking and they are trying to look further down the road rather
than put ourselves into a potential parking problem. But staff felt that the
level of parking being proposed today with the parking structure is very
adequate.
Commissioner Schmidt asked for the existing square footage of retail use in
the Village now. Mr. Stendell said that the Village is currently 35,812 square
feet with a combination of retail, restaurant and some office space toward the
back. There are currently 148 spaces. Commissioner Schmidt noted that
they were virtually doubling the use of this same ground by going back and
up. Mr. Stendell concurred.
Commissioner Schmidt asked how close the parking is to the existing
residential community behind the development. Mr. Stendell indicated there
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is a jog in the property line around the existing tennis court. The two
shallower sides are 12 feet from the property line. It is 11 feet 10 inches from
the property line to the edge of the parking structure ramp, which orienting
the parking structure in this configuration allowed them to put the lowest
feature toward the back for the least impact. Essentially, in 12 feet they have
to deal with landscaping, and then around the tennis court they have 15 feet
and a couple of inches to provide landscaping. Staff felt that was a very good
planter area to achieve a very dense landscaping buffer between the parking
structure and the residence to the rear.
Commissioner Schmidt asked if the ramps going to the upper deck would be
at street level at that point. Mr. Stendell said that they enter the property and
they were underneath the parking deck. They would come out to the ramps
and then up to the second story. Commissioner Schmidt asked for the
elevation of the ramp at that point. Mr. Stendell indicated that the architect
could elaborate further, but showed a plan of the existing conditions. He said
there are homes, the parking lot, landscaping, and then the wall to the
parking structure. He pointed out the location of the existing wall between the
properties now. There was also a retaining situation there and believed that
the wall for the parking structure would be approximately five feet higher than
the existing wall to the rear. They moved the parking structure lower, and he
wanted the applicant to tell them exactly where it falls because they have
been trying to work with the neighbors to lower the structure further. They
have had two neighborhood meetings in an attempt to make any impact as
less as possible.
Commissioner Schmidt asked if the 42-foot height would be measured off of
EI Paseo. Mr. Stendell said yes, from the approved pad heights of the EI
Paseo pads.
With regard to parking, Commissioner Limont asked if there was any
discussion of providing covered parking on the top and falling in line with
Palm Desert's energy conservation in looking at solar panels and that type
of thing. Mr. Stendell said that all new construction will be held to Palm
DeserYs standards of construction. The applicant has provided down the
center aisle a parking shade structure running the entire length of the top
deck. Required by code, they are supposed to shade a third of the spaces
onsite. Essentially the parking deck covers about half of the spaces. Adding
the top cover really wasn't necessary, but they felt it added to the product.
They didn't have any specific discussions regarding any further energy
efficiency measures.
Commissioner Tanner asked if there was a schematic showing how close the
existing parking is to the condo wall. Mr. Stendell said no, but did provide an
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aerial view. Commission Tanner asked about the distance between them.
Mr. Stendell said it is right on the back side of the wall. He showed the
property line where it jogs around the tennis courts, said there are carports
and landscaping between the two, and based on his observation, there are
some oleander hedges between the two properties and a slight amount of
landscaping on the Village side of the wall, but they were probably six to
eight feet down to the cars.
Commissioner Campbell asked about the parking structure excavation. Mr.
Stendell said it started out as approximately four feet that they were taking
off. As a result of the neighborhood meeting, he believed they lowered it
another foot and a half, so they were talking about going down five feet from
where it is now, down, and then putting the deck on top of that.
Commissioner Tanner asked if the western Lupine side was elevated higher
than most of the other spaces in that condo area, or not. Is that parking area
right there not a little more elevated than normal? As he recalled, Lupine,
right behind the parking, is elevated around three feet. Mr. Stendell said yes,
the entire parking area is elevated currently. Then it stepped up in elevation,
there was a retaining wall, and there was around four or five feet there as
well. Again, he thought the architects could give some concrete numbers.
Commissioner Limont asked for confirmation that the existing height is 44
feet and this project is coming in at 42 feet. Mr. Stendell said the existing
height at the Gardens is 42 feet. The project here was approved at 24 feet.
There are some two-story components toward the rear. For the most part,
everything along EI Paseo is single story.
Commissioner Limont noted that this falls under the Scenic Preservation
Overlay District. Mr. Stendell concurred. In keeping with that, Commissioner
Limont asked how the higher elevations and being closer to EI Paseo fell
under it. Mr. Stendell replied that the Scenic Preservation Overlay doesn't
really speak to height, it requires them to encourage architecture above and
beyond, which really as a matter of course has just become what the City
requires in any zone. It doesn't speak to anything other than in general terms
that they should be requiring more in the way of buildings in this area and he
felt the project being presented meets the intent of that overlay district.
Commissioner Limont said when they look at the definition and the six
outlines they've discussed, it says the purpose of the Scenic Preservation
Overlay is to designate those city corridors which have a special aesthetic
quality, which this area does, and to provide the opportunity for special
standards for development in these areas to protect that quality. She asked
how they are protecting the scenic quality if they are going up in height? Mr.
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Stendell answered that it is open to interpretation, and in this case, staff is
saying that the scenic quality of this project is in keeping with that; the
architecture as proposed is in keeping with the scenic corridor of EI Paseo,
and she was right in that the statement leaves a lot of flexibility.
Chairperson Tschopp asked Mr. Stendell if lights were planned on top of the
parking structure. Mr. Stendell said his initial thought was no, given the
proximity of the residential. However, he understood that security lighting
would be necessary and would be subject to the City's codes that are in
operation next to residential areas in the city which require full cut-off lights
and a certain level of spillover is not allowed. If any lighting is proposed, it will
be done very delicately. If that was a condition that they wanted to look at for
no lighting on the top deck, staff would be happy to look at that.
Commissioner Tschopp asked Mr. Stendell to go over the landscaping
between the condos and the proposed building. Mr. Stendell noted that
typically dense landscaping is not done around here; however, in this case,
upon meeting with the neighbors, Architectural Review, the Landscape
Specialist, and staff here at the City, they've all come to the conclusion that
it is in the best interest of everybody to have this be as lushly landscaped
and mature-tree corridored as possible to preserve the aesthetic value and
keep kind of a separation between the two uses. As a result of that, the
applicants have indicated they are very willing to introduce very mature trees
into this area. They were talking somewhere in the range of 20 feet in height
coming out to the site so they could introduce the screening right off the bat
and not put in a 15-gallon tree and hope in ten years they might have a little
bit of screening. Their intent was to really be responsive and provide some
immediate relief. The plan also includes some vines up against the structure
and also the Landscape Specialist had some thought that given the
configuration, she felt that through the entitlement process and through the
construction drawings they have more than adequate room, which is the
most important part since they always hear them talking about the room for
landscaping and they have the room here, they just need to fill it �vith the
adequate materials that give the softening between the residential and the
commercial project. They were anticipating a very dense row of trees, some
vines and some lower plants down on the ground level.
Commissioner Tschopp asked if the City planned on maintaining the public
parking easement it has on the existing parking structure. Mr. Stendell
explained that the existing Gardens public parking stays in place. What is a
part of this application, as mentioned in his report, is that some mechanism
needs to reflect the loss of spaces because of the Saks expansion. Since
there is a public parking easement there and they are potentially changing
that, they need to amend it. The City Attorneys have been working
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collaboratively to figure out what mechanism that would need to be in. They
were comfortable with conditioning the project that the City Attorney
essentially will come up with a mechanism to amend the easement so that
it will reflect the current number of spaces as a result of the Saks expansion
to keep the public easement intact.
There were no other questions for staff. Chairperson Tschopp o�ened the
public hearing and asked the applicant to address the Commission.
MR. ROBERT PERLMUTTER, 622 Davis Street in Evanston, Illinois,
said he would briefly comment and then let their architect answer
some of the questions that had been raised. He stated that he is the
managing partner of Davis Street Land Company. Their company is
a small, privately held development company that specializes in
upscale shopping centers throughout the country. They have
properties in Palm Desert, Chicago, St. Louis and Nashville. Since
2003, they have been the owners of The Gardens on E! Paseo.
During that time they had really tried to nurture the property along.
They think it is a very special asset in a very special area and as Ryan
has said, they've been very focused on bringing in new retailers into
the marketplace and really bringing some of the best retailers into the
marketplace, so they've been excited about that.
In 2006 they purchased EI Paseo Village. Their intent in purchasing
it was to take this property and try to extend many of the good
elements they felt existed at the Gardens, in particular, tried to marry
the architecture, the street retail that fronts onto EI Paseo, the
restaurants at the corners that sort of become signatures with their
outdoor dining, and in this case also office, which is what most of the
upper level has migrated to other than the restaurant. So they were
really trying to extend many of the elements they see at The Gardens
as being successful and draws to the area.
The goal is to bring new retailers into the market. All of the retailers
they are working with and have commitments from will be new to the
market and they think will be very beneficial for the market and very
consistent with the types of retailers seen at The Gardens. They have
gone through a planning process with both the staff and the neighbors
as Ryan mentioned. They've had two different meetings with the
neighbors where they sought out their comments to try and address
their concerns. They understand that the marrying of commercial next
to residential is always a delicate balance, especially when the
residential is so close to the commercial district.
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Mr. Perlmutter said that the people that originally developed the
residential property in his opinion understood that they were going
next to commercial property and they took advantage of the grade,
which was mentioned earlier. In round numbers, when they started
out this hill they are basically going up the hill. They have a two or
three foot grade change befinreen the retail shops and the parking and
then there is a five or six foot grade change, which is basically
accomplished with a retaining wall right on the site.
In addition, if they look at the layout of the residential they see that
they put the tennis courts right in the center, which is adjacent to the
shaded parking which is actually on EI Paseo Village property. But in
addition, on the majority of the frontage there is basically one unit that
fronts the commercial property. The balance is the tennis courts or the
surface parking.
Clearly trying to put a parking structure to meet the parking
requirements has been a challenge. What they tried to do is mitigate
and separate as best they could, including after the last neighbors
meeting they went back and relooked at some of the grades, changed
some of the ramps and were able to lower it by about a foot and a half
as was mentioned.
He said he was present to try to answer any questions. He thought it
might be better for Gary Dempster, their Altoon and Porter architect,
to try and make a brief presentation addressing some of the
comments and concerns. Altoon and Porter was also the architect on
The Gardens, so there's a consistency there. He thanked them.
MR. GARY DEMPSTER, a partner with Altoon and Porter Architects,
444 South Flower in Los Angeles, reiterated that they were the
original architects for The Gardens, so they have an affinity and
fondness for EI Paseo and liked to think somehow they had some
small contribution to its ongoing success and the fact that it is now the
preeminent jewel in the desert by anybody's standards. They were
thrilled, excited and honored they got approached to continue the
legacy on this street. As mentioned, the design of the EI Paseo
Village is intended to be complimentary to The Gardens and the rest
of the street, but yet distinguish itself architecturally and by its
composition from the other projects. Clearly, because the projects are
owned by the same client, they wanted to have a synergy between
the two so it was envisioned that some of the architectural elements,
massing, colors, texture, and pavings would be much the same or
similar, yet it would be a different kind of experience.
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He stated they were completely sensitive to the height issues on The
Gardens having dealt with the City on the heights for The Gardens on
EI Paseo. As Ryan mentioned, they worked very closely with staff to
make sure they understood the absolute limits and projected lines
across from the first phase to the second phase to make sure they
were staying within the pre-established envelope. More importantly,
they were stepping the buildings sympathetically with the first phase
to make sure that the street experience is retail at a pedestrian level
and the upper levels became subservient and stepped back. ThaYs
not a dissimilar technique that's been applied to other buildings.
They noticed as they were driving down the street today the ongoing
redevelopment of the Daily Grill building has a very similar
composition where the corners are relatively strong, but the rest of the
building becomes subservient and the second floor in fact drops back,
a similar notion they used on phase one. Mr. Dempster said they liked
to think they understand the issues on EI Paseo and they also liked
to think they designed a building that is worthy of being there.
One of the challenges with the site is not only, as Mr. Perlmutter
mentioned, the topography, but the relationship to the residential
units. Referring to the aerial photograph, he stated that one of the
things they suggested before they started working with Ryan about
the parking requirement is they make a better transition between the
street level retail experience and the on-grade parking lot behind. The
current situation is there is about a three and a half to four foot grade
difference between the parking and street retail which doesn't work
favorably for retailers. They like to make it easy for the customers,
easy for people pushing strollers, and once they get out of their cars,
it is a really smooth transition and easy to get up and down. What
they suggested to their client is in fact changing the topography of the
parking lot and excavating it to make it a flat experience and the
transitions would be much easier. That was the basis to their
approach to the parking when in working with staff it was suggested
that there was a more global, district-wide need for parking beyond
just their project and that they ought to consider somehow mitigating
that. That led them to begin to investigate the raised level of parking.
One of the things they tried to design parking into the project is sort
of the givens that surround this in that one of the things they have
going for them is topography. If they haven't had the opportunity to
walk this district much, they don't understand what sort of slopes
there really are, both going east and west and north and south. It
certainly worked to the advantage to the parking lot to take advantage
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of that topography which necessarily began to suggest that the ramps
on this garage begin to go farther to the south. The other thing that
occurred to them is if they were able to put the ramps adjacent to the
parking lot that flank the residential units on either side, it was sort of
a complementary use that they wouldn't have cars abutting those
residential units. In fact, it would be a transitional space that would be
used on occasion, but by and large for the most part it would be
unused. That seemed to be a good method of segregating the parking
lot activity from the residential units.
Mr. Dempster stated that there was no denying that the juxtaposition
of an elevated parking deck against residential units was a bit hard of
a challenge to overcome. What he had an opportunity to do was
spend a Saturday afternoon and work with one of the residents who
was kind enough to give them access to photograph existing
conditions and see what sort of mitigation they could try to suggest.
As Bob mentioned, there was a homeowner meeting two or three
weeks ago where the primary concern suggested by the residents
was the juxtaposition of the height of this parking garage. He took a
photograph of the existing condition. He said that currently the parking
stalls abut immediately adjacent to the retaining wall. So that leads
to a certain amount of noise and activity after hours with people
getting into their cars, slamming doors and talking, late at night, and
backing out. The other thing that occurred to them is that the height
of that existing sun shade is really about where they were suggesting
the second level of the parking structure is going to sit. So they knew
instinctively it wasn't necessarily effecting light and air, it really had to
do with shielding the headlights, noise, and how do they move the
parking activity away from the residences as much as possible.
He showed a sketch overlay of what they envisioned the sequencing
to be. They suggested that the ramp take place adjacent to the
parking lots that are on those residences on the east and west sides
of the property to cut down on the backing and turning and the activity
and noise that goes with parking cars. More importantly, what they've
done is pulled the parking stalls away from that retaining wall so that
as they maneuver the cars in and out of the spaces they are
considerably farther away from the residential areas. The hope is to
cut down on the noise and activity, screeching of tires and stuff that
goes with a parking structure.
They were also proposing a landscape buffer. Roughly speaking, the
buffer now where the existing shade structure columns are located is
roughly where the new edge of the parking structure is envisioned.
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That would give them an idea about the relative space. So the area
that is now occupied by cars will be occupied by trees. The thought is
that if they put a ground cover in when they put in the trees, they get
the benefit of two things. They get to screen the wall that creates the
parking structure, but more importantly, it helps them cut off light
leave from the lower level of the garage that will illuminate that
landscaped area.
He recalled that Chairperson Tschopp asked about the lighting of the
upper level. Instinctively they knew they were obligated to provide a
minimum amount of light per City code on a parking structure,
whether it is below grade, above grade, or at grade. So what they've
indicated is that it is their intent to put the light fixtures on the sun
shade screen that's down the center of the garage, and so far the
photo metrics indicate that what they are able to achieve is that the
light levels will fall off to a minimum standard as it approaches the
edge of the deck. What they are trying to do is capture any light leave
from those fixtures to mitigate the fact that they don't want the walls
of the residences illuminated by the parking structure lights. They're
cognizant of the fact that isn't desirable. They would center them and
the photo metrics indicated that they were less than a foot candle right
at the edge.
On the ramps themselves, what they were suggesting is low level
lights embedded in the southernmost wall so that they're lighting the
driving surface, but it wouldn't leak out into the residential areas.
Lastly was an overview of the parking structure. As Bob mentioned,
at the last homeowner's meeting and in working with Ryan and Public
Works, they've devised a ramping system where they're now actually
ramping on the curves of the ramps which allows them to get a higher
distance in a shorter distance, which allowed them to push down the
upper level of the deck roughly one foot four inches if inemory served
correctly over what it was when they showed it to the home owners.
He admitted it was a bit of a tight squeeze, but thought it would
certainly work. The relative relationship to that means that the wall of
the ramp is going to be roughly five feet over the top of the existing
retaining wall, or roughly the level of the roof of the shade structure.
There is going to be a wall that sticks up that they're proposing to
screen the headlights, because obviously when cars are pulling in
they don't want those headlights shining on the residential areas. So
they are proposing to put a screen wall which will capture any
headlights.
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One of the things he and his client were discussing was whether or
not they want to raise that wall a little bit taller so that there is some
visual privacy as well from the upper level of the deck. They hadn't yet
resolved that, but they've got the headlights covered and might want
to raise it a little bit so that if you're on that parking structure, your
view to the residences is cut off. They had done some sight analyses
and sight-line studies, but it wasn't completely solved.
Mr. Dempster thought Mr. Stendell answered most questions, but he
was also available to answer any questions.
There were no questions. Chairperson Tschopp asked if anyone wished to
speak in FAVOR of the project. There was no one. Chairperson Tschopp
asked if anyone wished to speak in OPPOSITION to the project.
MS. IRIS FINSILVER, 45-370 Lupine Lane, stated that she went to
the first homeowners' meeting and they were very much in favor of
the project. That was at a time when there was only one level. They
had the second meeting and the home owners in her opinion were not
for the upper level and she was certainly not for it for the following
reasons. First of all, she thought the scenic quality will be mutilated by
putting a second level up there. One of the concerns, her major
concern, is that her property borders on a retaining wall. She had no
idea what they're doing when they're building in terms of digging down
and putting beams in or whatever people have to do to make a
parking structure. It was beyond her knowledge. But she was
concerned about lateral support.
She spoke with Ryan, who has been very cordial and put up with her
questioning about whaYs going on, and he advised her that there is
no environmental impact report and she thought that had to be done.
He told her it had been waived. She said she was very concerned
because her retaining wall, she wasn't sure it could support whatever
was going to be done in terms of putting up a second level. She
thought it was something that should be looked at because once they
start doing the construction, she didn't know if her foundation would
stay in place and was confused by it all. She didn't believe there was
any actual report on that for her to look at.
She voiced her concerns that even during the three busiest days of
the year for the shopping center, the shopping center at The Gardens,
she had never seen that parking lot completely full. So she didn't have
the studies and didn't understand it, but it seemed to her that there
was no crushing or eminent need, maybe ten years from now for a
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 5. 2008
double-sized parking lot, but she thought it was going to adversely
impact on the beauty of the neighborhood. She thought the EI Paseo
Village is really lovely and that a lot will be taken away by putting a
double level parking lot there. She hoped they would do a beautiful
job and try to prevent the loss of the beauty of that area, but her big,
big, big concern is that her unit doesn't fall apart or fall off the side of
the hill when they're digging down and doing whatever it is they need
to do. She thanked them for their attention.
Chairperson Tschopp asked the applicant to readdress the Commission to
address the concerns.
Mr. Perlmutter asked if he meant the structural concerns in terms of
the construction process and foundation.
Chairperson Tschopp concurred.
Mr. Perlmutter said he was pretty sure it was independent of their
retaining wall and deferred to Mr. Dempster.
Mr. Dempster stated that standard construction procedures dictate
that they monitor the wall during all phases of construction. The
obvious reason is they don't want to adversely affect the integrity of
that wall and didn't want anyone to have a misperception of what's
going on during the course of construction. It is standard and
customary that an independent observer would put base line
information on that wall about its relative levelness, trueness and what
the measurements are across the top of it and that will be monitored
throughout the course of the construction procedure, reports will be
written and filed just to avoid not only any concerns that the residents
will have, but to assure his client that every precaution is taken to
make sure of the integrity of that wall. They don't want to own any
more property than they already have and will take extraordinary
means to make sure the wall stays intact. They've had some
preliminary information from their structural engineer and there is a
very specific calculation that is done about the cone of influence
about where to put a foundation relative to another foundation. It's
roughly a 45 degree angle so that the location of those columns that
suppo�t the garage will be well outside that sphere of influence to
insure they don't negatively impact that wall.
Mr. Perlmutter noted that the landscape buffer a!lows them to grade
down. Mr. Dempster agreed. He indicated Ryan mentioned 15 feet,
11 feet 10 inches was really in order to maintain that, stay outside of
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 5, 2008
that sphere of influence, and that's what sets the columns with the
setback that goes to the garage. It was driven on multiple levels and
that's what allows them to have such a deep landscaping zone and
that is to stay off that wall.
Commissioner Campbell asked how close the first dwelling was to the
retaining wall.
Mr. Dempster said that the retaining wail is just on the other side of
the hedge and that unit is 10-12 feet, plus the hedge, so maybe 14 or
15 feet, plus another 11 feet for their structure.
Commissioner Campbell summed up that they were talking approximately 25
to 27 feet between the two properties.
Mr. Perlmutter concurred.
Commissioner Campbell thanked them.
Commissioner Schmidt said she didn't have any questions, but did see Ms.
Finsilver's hand up.
Ms. Finsilver thought it was much closer. Using the displayed photo,
she thought the retaining wall was the white line going straight up and
pointed out her unit. She said there's a stucco wall that comes out a
little bit from it and then it goes along the side. She had a little
pathway along the side and the retaining wall is maybe 12 inches
because her cat gets out and she has to keep her from jumping down
into the parking lot. It's that close. It isn't six feet away or seven feet
away there. IYs very close and less than three feet. It is a very short
distance and there's oleander trees that are planted throughout there.
That's a major concern and she hoped a study could be done before
they start monitoring instead of waiting until they are doing all the
digging and then there might be a problem along the way. It seemed
more efficient to have somebody, an engineer, do a study and let
them know what they are planning on doing will support the land next
to it. She thanked Commissioner Schmidt for noticing she wanted to
speak.
Chairperson Tschopp asked if the applicant wanted to add any additional
comments.
Ms. Aylaian interjected that the City's Building & Safety Department takes an
active part during the plan review process and the inspection of any
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION FEBRUARY �. 2008
construction project. Obviously, high rise buildings are built adjacent to other
high rise buildings with less than a foot befinreen them in urban locations, so
there is technology for supporting and shoring one building when building
adjacent to it. When a project is submitted for plan review to the Building &
Safety Department, they have certified structural engineers who review the
calculations, not only of the building being constructed, but of the shoring
methodology that is going to be used by the contractors to shore up any
adjacent structure so that it won't be damaged. The project will also be
inspected by the City's professional inspection team to monitor and if they
were to see any signs of cracking or subsidence, they obviously would help
the process and have structural engineers come again and redo any
proposed work before proceeding.
Mr. Perlmutter wanted to make sure they described the drawing. The
notch is the retaining wall. ThaYs the retaining wall on the property
line. The strip to the left with landscaping is the 11-foot buffer. He
wanted to make sure everyone understood that their structure is not
right up against the wall. There is an 11-foot area that allows them to
stay a fair distance away and helps in the construction process.
Clearly if they were building right up against it, it would require a
different set of construction techniques to not compromise the wall,
but because they have this setback, they are able to take care of
some of the grading and maintain the integrity.
Commissioner Tanner reiterated that the 11-foot section is the landscaping,
the heavy, dense landscaping between the retaining wall and the new wall.
Chairperson Tschopp asked if anyone else had any comments in FAVOR or
OPPOSITION to the project.
MR. PAT CARNEY, 47-260 Rose Sage Court in Palm Desert, stated
. that he owns a condo in this complex and asked staff to display a
picture of the whole complex. He said his concern is traffic and
deliveries. His property is on San Pablo and there is EI Paseo
Gardens there, and Sullivan's, and there are a lot of trucks on that
road right now. His question is where the delivery setups will be for all
the trucks that are going to deliver food. Because of the traffic right
now, he was very concerned if it is going to be on the same side of
San Pablo. It would be an issue with traffic and trucks making
deliveries.
Mr. Stendell indicated that was not a situation they wanted to repeat and
addressed that in this application. The applicants designed the structure with
a 14-foot clear, if not more, that allows the service trucks to pull in, do the
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PALM DESERT PLANNlNG COMMISSION FEBRUARY 5. 2008
deliveries underneath the structure, and pull through and exit the property
without impacting the neighborhood as the existing does where they do find
large trucks parked on the street for a short period of time. They took that
into account with this one from the beginning. So again, they will drive in, the
deliveries are made underneath the structure on their property, then will drive
out of their property. He said that was a much better situation for everyone
involved.
Mr. Carney asked if they were driving in from San Pablo. What he
sees is that San Pablo already has all the delivery trucks with The
Gardens. He asked for confirmation that with the new project they
could come in either side and exit either way.
Mr. Stendell concurred.
Mr. Carney asked if they would back up to a dock. There is a dock
right now.
Mr. Stendell explained that there is a loading zone flanking either side that
will have underneath the structure gates that will open. Service people can
come out, take their product, and go back into the streets. He confirmed
there is a loading zone there, confirmed the location of the ramp, and
informed that the services were from the ground floor only. There would be
no second story access for that.
Mr. Carney thanked them.
MR. JOHNNY ANDREASEN, 45-421 Lupine Lane #3, had a concern
he had heard from one of the last meetings they had with the tenants
of the building right across the street, which is facing the project, is
that they are going to tear down Roc's Firehouse at a later date and
tear down all the existing stuff very shortly. He asked if there was any
validity to that statement.
Mr. Perlmutter explained that one of their tenants, Roc's Firehouse,
has a lease that has term left on it, so they've been working with the
tenant to try to negotiate an agreement that will allow them to develop
it in total. If they are able to reach that agreement, and they were
cautiously optimistically they will, it would be developed all at once. If
they are not able to reach an agreement with Roc's, it will be
developed in two phases where the two buildings on the left will be
developed first, then the building on the right will be developed when
Roc's lease expires. A little bit like what is happening on the corner
adjacent to Lupine where in essence that restaurant corner is
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 5. 2008
redeveloped independent of the balance of the block. That was
probably the best analogy he could give.
Chairperson Tschopp asked what amount of time was left on Roc's.
From the project opening, Mr. Perlmutter thought two years, so 2011.
A little less than two years from the estimated opening date.
(Mr. Andreasen spoke from the audience and asked how long it woufd take
to demolish each section and build it up.)
Mr. Perlmutter answered that based on the quality of the construction,
it won't take long to demolish it. They are estimating about a year's
duration. Their current schedule is to start in November of this year
and open the following November. IYs about a 12-month duration to
demolish, build and tenant.
(Mr. Andreasen said if it was done in two sections, the neighbors would have
to go through that all over again.)
Mr. Perlmutter said that is correct. The duration is anticipated to be a
year. If the second piece is built subsequently, it would probably not
be a full year because the complexity is not as great, but probably a
nine to ten month period. If they think about that parcel, it is
somewhat isolated because at that point in time the parking deck will
already have been constructed and the other two retail buildings will
have been constructed. So it's much more like what is going on
adjacent to that corner.
There were no other comments. Chairperson Tschopp closed the public
hearing and asked the Commission for comments.
Commissioner Limont thought Ryan hit the nail on the head when he said
that EI Paseo is unique. She agreed 100%; she loves EI Paseo. She thought
one of the things that makes it unique is that Palm Desert has worked very
hard, starting with Clifford Henderson and moving on up through the Council
that was in place at incorporation, and moving forward to make certain that
we were really thoughtful as we developed that piece of property. If they
looked at any destination that folks go to that she thinks is comparable to EI
Paseo, be it Monterey, Marin County, Palo Alto, Rodeo Drive and the Los
Angeles, they go there because it has a certainly feeling and a certain
ambience. In the desert here we have a certain quality of life she thought
they get by living here and by the way they have constructed EI Paseo. While
she agreed with Ryan that there are parts of the Preservation Overlay that
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 5. 2008
can be interpreted, number one at the very top says the preservation of
scenic vistas. To her that wasn't really open to interpretation. A vista and a
scenic vista in her world doesn't include a building. To go from 24 feet to 42
feet, although she thought it was a well constructed project and she does like
The Gardens and thought they did a wondertul job, in The Gardens they
have a break-up in the facade. With the Village here, there is a variety of
buildings which helps to mitigate the fact that they have buildings right there.
So her interpretation is that to go two stories to increase this height and
taking away the variations of buildings to cap it with something like that is
working against ourselves. She hoped they would give stronger thought to
maybe not getting caught in a whirlpool of trying to get as much retail, office,
restaurant as possible on EI Paseo simply by going up. The key to EI Paseo
is to make sure they maintain the quality of it. When she looked at the
proposal, it is absolutely beautiful. On EI Paseo in that spot, she wasn't
necessarily sold on it.
Commissioner Campbell commented that she has been on the street for 20
years on EI Paseo and has seen many, many changes come and go. When
everything was torn down where The Gardens located, it was fascinating.
She stated that The Gardens is really an asset to EI Paseo. After The
Gardens was built, they have seen many other buildings going up in height.
Even before The Gardens came, where Troy used to be, thaYs a two-story
building, even though the second story is used just for internal offices. In this
area, even though it looks in the picture to be very massive, as Ryan and the
architect explained it, she thought it will have in and outs in the building, and
this is what they discussed right on the corner where the Brazilian restaurant
is thaYs going to be torn down. The building that's going in there is going to
be two-story with restaurant on the top, but it's still going to be very uniform
to the buildings there right now. Also, they do have walkways breaking up the
buildings. To her, it will go very well with the building across the street and
also the buildings that are going to be built between the Daily Grill and St.
John's, and what went across the street, the Ralph Lauren shop, it has all the
same motif and she thought it would be very exciting for EI Paseo and she
was all for it.
Commissioner Schmidt said her concern is a little different in that the
buildings are lovely, are placed well, and a great deal of consideration was
given to the neighbors and they mitigated a lot of things that could impact
them. She had a real problem with adding 36,662 square feet to 2.64 acres
over what is existing there now and virtually not increasing the parking. She
agreed with the argument on the lower parking ratio to a certain extent, but
on the Picahna project, did they not ask for some money from the developers
to assist the City at a future time for maybe a parking garage or alternate
transportation along EI Paseo? Commissioner Campbell noted that she
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 5. 2008
brought that up at that time that they should have a two-story parking
structure. Ms. Aylaian clarified that the determination was that the project
didn't provide sufficient onsite parking, so they assessed a fee that can be
placed toward a new parking structure. The difference with this project is that
the determination is that they are providing enough onsite parking and don't
need any additional beyond what they are providing.
Commissioner Schmidt said that the horse is really out of the barn. She and
Commissioner Limont both feel strongly about height limits and it seemed to
her to be appropriate to address changing the General Plan and increasing
the height limit, because everybody that comes in here wants some kind of
variance for height. She has been on the Commission for a little over a year
and short of a mechanics garage and a few massage establishments,
everything is exceeding 30 feet in height. They were successful with
Wachovia and actually reduced the height of the building, which she was
very grateful for; it is a very significant corner if they ever build it. She had
mixed feelings. It is a good project, it's a good use of the land, she thought
they tried to mitigate the impacts on the residents, but she worried about the
density on the street and the kind of block feeling of these buildings. To her
it didn't seem in character with the rest of EI Paseo. It is a string of two-story
office, retail, restaurant buildings with a lot of architectural features. She
wasn't sure that was what EI Paseo was all about.
Commissioner Tanner also had mixed emotions. He has been here since
1980 and has seen a lot of changes on EI Paseo. As far as he's concerned,
they've all been good changes. He understood that the current EI Paseo
Village is a little bit dilapidated and the demolition of that particular area will
probably not take a long time because of it's condition. That being said, it still
has a lot of character to Palm Desert and EI Paseo. They see a lot of
changes on EI Paseo, a lot of store fronts are changing and it seems they
are going to this new motif. He has total mixed emotions about this. He likes
The Gardens and thought it has been a great addition. He just wasn't sure
if they were ready for a duplicated part just on the other side of San Pablo
and Lupine. He knew they addressed the needs of the residents behind
them. Apparently they have because there was only one resident who
voiced an opinion one way or the other. He thought the other speaker was
in favor of the project, just concerned about her lot and foundation, and
rightfully so. He thought this would be a boost to the retailers along EI Paseo.
They are bringing in a brand new product here. He thought the economy at
this point is probably a pretty good time to build because iYs only going to get
stronger. He was just really having a difficult time with this trying to say yes
or no to this project. He knew they were going up, but that didn't necessarily
mean it was right. Everything coming to them is going up. He would have to
weigh it very heavily. The project is very well done. They did a beautiful job
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 5. 2008
in the construction or at least the rendering of it. He said they have done a
great job with The Gardens. He was struggling with the direction he was
going to head, but those were his feelings.
Chairperson Tschopp acknowledged it is definitely difficult and that's why
they got Commissioner Tanner for the job. On the Saks expansion,
Chairperson Tschopp was very much in favor of it. Saks is first class in a first
class development. We need to keep them and that expansion is very good
for The Gardens on EI Paseo. As far as the existing EI Paseo Village, he
enjoys it over there and will miss Roc's, but he thought the EI Paseo Village
is tired and needs to be redone and right now if they walk in there, unless
someone knows there are shops inside, it's hard for most people to know
they are there. The existing circulation is not conducive to really good retail.
They can look at EI Paseo, it's in a transition right now, and they are seeing
some beautiful buildings going up. His thought on this is what we've got here
is going to be very compatible with those buildings, as well as very
compatible to The Gardens on EI Paseo. He agreed with Commissioner
Campbell's comment that this would be a good addition, the architecture's
good, and the height in an exception that is granted with superior
architecture or fits with the neighborhood. This whole area is changing and
he was very much in favor and thought this would be a wonderful addition to
EI Paseo and to the neighborhood.
He asked for an action.
Action:
It was moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Chairperson
Tschopp, adopting the findings as presented by staff.
Commissioner Schmidt said she wanted to make something clear; Ryan
alluded to the Saks expansion as a site plan approval only. They are
approving or not approving this EI Paseo Viliage development as shown.
Only she didn't read it that way in the resolution. She saw that they were
granting the 27,000 square foot addition to the existing Saks 5th Avenue and
a precise plan of design. That is different than a site plan approval. She
asked for clarification by the City Attorney. Mr. Hargreaves deferred to Mr.
Stendell. Mr. Stendell explained that in this case the precise plan is needed
for the entitlement. They are looking at site plan approval only. They are
approving the site plan and asked if they wanted a definitive condition. This
is something that is a matter of course that they do often; they get a site plan
approval for a tract or project and at a later date the applicant will come back
with a full set of architecturai drawings for approval at that time. if they'd be
more comfortable with a higher level of condition, he'd be happy to entertain
that and introduce that for her.
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 5. 2008
Commissioner Schmidt stated that one of her other concerns is that this is
either sink or swim. If for some reason the EI Paseo Village should not be
voted in favor, then so goes Saks. As presented this evening, Mr. Stendell
concurred. Commissioner Schmidt was deeply concerned that these two
issues were bundled together as iYs sort of like night and day. She wanted
to make very clear somehow, she didn't know if the City Attorney should
address it or Mr. Stendell, but it is a site plan approval only. Mr. Hargreaves
said they would make sure the resolution is redrafted to make that explicit.
Commissioner Limont asked if these could be unbundled. Mr. Hargreaves
said no. They need to vote it up or down. If they liked one half and not the
other half, they could certainly declare that on the record and the applicant
could come back with one half or the other half, but he didn't think it was
possible with the current configuration to just vote for half. Ms. Aylaian
thought it would be appropriate to ask the applicant. Typically when a project
is put together all pieces are necessary for financial viability. It may not be
a project they would put forward if it was just one portion or the other.
Commissioner Tanner asked where they were now. Chairperson Tschopp
stated that there is a motion and a second on the table. He asked for any
other comments. There were none and he called for the vote. Motion carried
3-2 (Commissioners Limont and Schmidt voted no).
It was moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Chairperson
Tschopp, adopting Planning Commission Resolution No. 2467 as amended,
recommending to City Council approva! of Case Nos. PP 07-10, CUP 07-18
and VAR 07-02, subject to conditions. Motion carried 3-2 (Commissioners
Limont and Schmidt voted no).
For the record, Mr. Hargreaves stated that the resolution would be amended
to make it explicit that the Saks approval was for the site plan only and not
the precise plan.
IX. MISCELLANEOUS
None.
X. COMMITTEE MEETING UPDATES
A. ART IN PUBLIC PLACES
No meeting.
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION FEBRUARY 5. 2008
B. LANDSCAPE BEAUTIFICATION
Commissioner Limont reviewed the issues discussed at the last
meeting.
C. PROJECT AREA 4 COMMITTEE
Commissioner Schmidt advised that the next meeting will be in March.
D. PARKS & RECREATlON
No meeting.
XI. COMMENTS
None.
XII. ADJOURNMENT
It was moved by Commissioner Campbell, seconded by Commissioner
Tanner, adjourning the meeting. Motion carried 5-0. The meeting was
adjourned at 7:34 p.m.
LAURI AYLAIAN, Secretary
ATTEST:
�, --
s
ID E. TSCHOPP, Chair
Palm Desert Planning Commission
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