Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-02-05MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 5, 2004 — 2:00 P.M. CIVIC CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBER I. CALL TO ORDER Mayor Spiegel convened the meeting at 2:00 p.m. II. ROLL CALL Present: Councilmember Jean M. Benson Mayor Pro-Tempore Buford A. Crites Councilman Jim Ferguson Councilman Richard S. Kelly Mayor Robert A. Spiegel Also Present: Sheila R. Gilligan, Acting City Manager David J. Erwin, City Attorney Mark Greenwood, Acting ACM for Development Services Justin McCarthy, ACM for Redevelopment Rachelle D. Klassen, City Clerk Amir Hamidzadeh, Director of Building & Safety Philip Drell, Director of Community Development Paul S. Gibson, Director of Finance/City Treasurer Steve Thetford, Lieutenant, Palm Desert Police Dept./Riverside Co. Sheriff's Dept. Ignacio Otero, Division Chief/Riverside County Fire Department III. ADJOURN TO CLOSED SESSION Request for Closed Session: Conference with Legal Counsel regarding significant potential to initiate litigation pursuant to Government Code Section 54956.9(c): Number of potential cases: 1 City Attorney Erwin announced that there were property negotiation items to add to this Agenda for Closed Session consideration. MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 Upon a motion by Mayor Pro Tem Crites, second by Councilmember Benson, and 5-0 vote of the City Council, the following property items were added to the Agenda for Closed Session. Conference with Real Property Negotiator pursuant to Government Code Section 54956.8: 1) Property: APNs 624-241-017/018/019 Negotiating Parties: Agency: Carlos L. Ortega/Phil Drell/City of Palm Desert Property Owner: Sarah Simonds Trust Other Parties: B. J. Worzack Under Negotiation: x Price x Terms of Payment 2) Property: APN 624-160-004 Negotiating Parties: Agency: Carlos L. Ortega/Phil Drell/City of Palm Desert Property Owner: Phil Cordova Under Negotiation: x Price x Terms of Payment With City Council concurrence, Mayor Spiegel adjourned the meeting to Closed Session at 2:02 p.m. He reconvened the meeting at 2:30 p.m. IV. RECONVENE A. REPORT FROM CLOSED SESSION. Action: None V. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE - Councilman Jim Ferguson VI. INVOCATION - Mayor Robert A. Spiegel VII. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS - A None VIII. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. MINUTES OF THE ADJOURNED REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF JANUARY 29, 2004. Councilmember Benson moved to, by Minute Motion, approve the Minutes as presented. Motion was seconded by Mayor Pro Tem Crites and carried by 5-0 vote. 2 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL IX. PUBLIC HEARING FEBRUARY 5, 2004 A. CONSIDERATION OF A COMPREHENSIVE GENERAL PLAN UPDATE AND FINAL ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT FOR THE CITY OF PALM DESERT, CALIFORNIA Case No. GPA 01-04 (City of Palm Desert, Applicant) (Continued from the meetings of January 15, and January 29, 2004). The following is a verbatim transcript of this public hearing. Key PD Phil Drell, Director of Community Development RAS Mayor Robert A. Spiegel JF Councilman Jim Ferguson BAC Mayor Pro Tem Buford A. Crites DJE David J. Erwin, City Attorney NC Nicole Criste JC John Criste TN Tom Noble RSK Councilman Richard S. Kelly RDK Rachelle D. Klassen, City Clerk PH Pam Hardy JMB Councilmember Jean M. Benson MG Mark Greenwood, Acting ACM for Development Services SRG Sheila R. Gilligan, Acting City Manager PD Good afternoon. At the last meeting, Council asked for some additional analysis information. We've provided you with that analysis. I'd like to go over it. First was the comparison...land use comparison between the area north of Frank Sinatra with the existing developed area south of Frank Sinatra. It actually turned out to be quite interesting analysis. Looking at the...in comparing the two, the first thing that stands out, which was really the core driving idea that dominated the discussion at GPAC, was the commercial industrial category. Generally in the City, and again these are all gross numbers so anything that's been...you know, the (inaudible) of four or five percent, but existing city has only ten percent commercial industrial land use. And as we've said many times, the thing that immediately had an impact on the discussion at GPAC was the realization that 46% or even the existing 30...40%, so...of the university area was designated for commercial, so in terms of percentage of area in comparison to the existing city, this university park area is dominated by commercial industrial land uses. And 3 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 that actually doesn't even count the campus itself, which if you added that percentage, which is another nine percent, almost half the area is...has commercial quality to it as opposed to ten percent of the existing city, which again drove all of the discussion about housing demand and everything else about how to...how to accommodate and facilitate appropriate land use adjacent to all this commercial. Another interesting thing is looking at residential...if you look at the medium density and high density categories and, believe me, I just gave this task to the...our...Bob Riches, our graphic information guy and I didn't cook him at all. You add up the higher density in our existing city, 9.43 for medium, two percent for high, approximately eleven and a half percent...what we're proposing in university park is 11 %, so in terms of as a percentage of total land area, we're...in terms of medium and high density basically comparable to the pattern in the rest of the city. Why you see more high then had to do with, again, the fact of trying to respond as best we could to the housing demands of that big 50% job generating land use of the commercial industrial and education. So...and then we kind of went one step further...should I validate these numbers...and I went and looked at our most current actual existing...and I didn't give this to you, but I can relate to you what's in it. In terms of our actual 2003 existing from the Department of Finance to see if these projections based purely on land use had validity, and based on this it's showing 32,000 or about 33,000 build out units based on land use, and currently we have 29,400, and that's pretty good because we're...in looking at vacant land, we're about 90% built out on the south side of...another interesting category...that two percent showing up as high density generated...we predicted to generate 4,500 units, and if we look at projects with five or more units per building, which basically are apartments, it comes out to 4,255, again very close to what the land use analysis would predict. No...these numbers I haven't given you. I'm...well, are you completely lost? Okay, well let's start...we've got...you've got two charts. You've got the chart that I just gave you, which is the rest of the city without university park, which is basically all of the land use for the existing area south of Frank Sinatra. RAS That I have. PD Okay. And then we have the chart that we gave out last week... (Inaudible) PD ...which is the university park land use. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. JF This one. PD Yes. And I was comparing all these percentages, and next time if you're lost, tell me sooner...please interrupt me. And again, back to what I was 4 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL JF PD FEBRUARY 5, 2004 saying...in comparison, we're looking at 50% commercial, educational in the university park area, which really was a given when we got the land use plan. That's fundamentally based on existing categories and existing realities. Compare that to 10% which is the percentage of commercial use in the existing city south. And when you look at a map, when you look at the map we handed out, you see lots and lots and lots of yellow, which is all residential land use, so it's not...I don't think it was a shock to learn that really our commercial is limited to a very thin veneer on Highway 111 and a couple of industrial parks and a couple supermarkets. On the question of residential, what you're saying is you're proposing a 31 % density in dwelling units, and the rest of the city has a 72% density, so it's less than half of what our current density is? Not density...that is percentage of land area devoted to residential uses, and the controlling factor there is the fact that half the land is a predominance of commercial which dictates how much land you've got left for other uses. And then, as we've been going over, at least the...so again, the dominant feature as we've been discussing all along, which was what the GPAC and the Planning Commission focused their attention on when putting this land use (inaudible) was how to address the extraordinary amount of commercial and employment generating and traffic generating commercial uses that are inherent when we run up against the freeway and the interchanges. The other was...there was some discussion whether we were...the amount of medium and high density was disproportionately high in this area, and again when you look at percentages and add those two together, in existing you take the 9% medium and 2% high and you get 11 %, 11'/2 %...basically that's where we're at. The difference is that we have a little bit more...instead of 2% high we have 4.8% high, and again the...that was also dictated by the fact that we have so little land left to generate housing based on the dominance of commercial uses is that to get enough housing you need...and to accommodate still a rather large chunk of low density housing, as you see in the university park plan we're devoting approximately 20% of the land area to low density to get our housing numbers vaguely in line with demand...that's why you see a bit more high density. But again it's generally within the magnitude of what's traditionally been within the city. And that pretty much sums up that analysis. And then the last thing I was saying...that when you compare these numbers, meaning the south Frank Sinatra projections of units based on just land use calculations with the existing real numbers that we have for 2003, they're almost identical. So basically saying that these numbers validate in terms of our...because remember, what we tried to do in adjusting land use south of Sinatra was to adjust them to the actual developed densities, and we came very close to that. 5 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL RAS Mayor Pro Tem FEBRUARY 5, 2004 BAC Is it fair to say that the major differences would be that low density residential has dropped by over 50%... PD Correct. BAC ...and commercial industrial has gone up by... PD 300% BAC ...by 300%. PD Right. BAC Those are the two things, right, wrong, whatever, but those are the major statistically significant differences. PD Correct. RAS And the main reason for that is the freeway? PD The freeway and...the freeway and the interchanges...that along major arterials and interchanges, you're going to have commercial...the other large thing, of course, was Shadow Ridge. Shadow Ridge is a big hunk of...it's a thousand room hotel. The university, again, is a 200-acre office park in reality. All the other commercial was pretty much the same commercial that's always been designated since 1980...1 mean, every time we've looked at this and we've looked at the freeway and the railroad tracks, we've put commercial or industrial against the freeway and retail regional commercial at the interchanges. Moving on...and before we talk about fiscal impact, I have one... RAS Could I ask one other question? PD Sure. RAS Taking a look at the rest of the city without university park, so that would be everything south of Frank Sinatra, correct? PD Correct. RAS And I look at commercial, and I look at regional commercial...it says we have two thousand...2,201,000 square feet of regional commercial. 6 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 PD Um-hmm RAS And we've got 4,105,000 square feet of resort commercial? PD That is...and those are...the square footage applies less accurately to resort commercial...that means...resort commercial means the square footage in Marriott's Desert Springs and the timeshare and the hotels...in this spreadsheet, it could have been broken out in units in the resort, but... RAS So you're including the Marriott Desert Springs... PD Yes. RAS ...figures. That's what it's skewed so high. PD Yes. RAS Because there is no resort commercial other than hotels. PD Exactly. We're talking about the hotels. I think...I don't have...next on your agenda is the fiscal impact study, I believe, right? Which you wanted to compare...in isolation, what the fiscal balance would be for university park, — and our consultant Nicole Criste has handed out, I believe, a study...you know, again...and the fact that it was done in a week is not as rigorous as some, but in all...basically, in every opportunity, we took probably the more conservative tact in terms of how you do it. JF Before we go to the fiscal, we are required, and this is more, I guess, to the City Attorney, to plan in our new General Plan update no fewer residential units than currently exist in our General Plan? DJE Actually, that's not quite right, but I think effectively that's what it says. We need to show if we're going to eliminate that we're at least not eliminating them or we're providing other alternatives for them in other areas. JF Okay, and when we have existing units at 4,046, is that what would be allowed under our current General Plan? PD Correct. JF And GPAC recommended that we basically increase that by 150% to 6,000? PD Correct. JF And then the Planning Commission knocked it down to about 4,300? MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL PD Correct. FEBRUARY 5, 2004 JF And my density on the existing part of the city shows that we have about 3.78 units to the acre, and under the Planning Commission's proposal it would actually reduce the density to about 3.34 acre in the university park area. Is that...am I tracking this correctly? PD JF PD JF PD JF PD JF PD When you...if you...per total...if you use the two thousand, the total two thousand units, if you looked at probably...I haven't done that calculation...I would assume if you use just the residentially designated property, the density would have gone up a certain amount, but if you use as your base the entire two thousand acres, it's probably quite similar. Yeah, I'm using the entire base. Somehow the notion has come about during this two-year process that we're driving up densities, that we're radically increasing housing numbers that is out of step with what we've done with the rest of the city, which is why I wanted this chart to see where we are at the rest of the city, and what you're telling me today is no, it's about an apples to apples comparison. It's very similar, and...mainly because if you look back at our existing city, the area around El Paseo, Highway 111, there is a significant area of apartments and medium density housing and condos that are medium or high density, and so...it's a little different than what we've done recently when we've been dominated by country clubs over the last few years, but if you look at the whole history of the city, it's not a significant departure. And one last question. We keep talking about south of Frank Sinatra and how we really haven't changed anything. Is there not...how many would you estimate, acres, do we have undeveloped residential land in the existing part of the city? Let me look...(inaudible) would be a good estimate, and it's showing...let's see, total acreage...we probably have something...maybe four or five hundred acres. But using that rough density formula, about 1,200 units of undeveloped residential land in the existing part of the city. Yes. And if I understand the City Attorney correctly, that could be used to offset if there were a reduction north of Frank Sinatra if those units... Yes, it's just... 8 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 JF ...I'm not aware of all that much commercial vacant land. PD JF PD There's...most of the....if you look at a vacant...they're little pieces...most of the vacant land are individual lots within existing single family neighborhoods or, you know, again...after what I went through, we all went through, with ABD when we simply tried to lower a single family zone from 12,000 square foot lots to 10,000 square foot lots...you remember what happened. So that is why I, you know, would not recommend that we attempt to transfer density to existing neighborhoods. (Inaudible) on a unit for unit basis, we have roughly 1,200 units in the existing part of the city that could be built, which haven't been built, whether they're stand alones or larger subdivision parcels. But they're...those are, in terms of the law, which I think Mr. Erwin is referring to, you don't...that's...those are units that are already in essence spoken for and we would have to increase the densities on those lands above what they are now to do that transfer, and I wouldn't...I wouldn't recommend we try to do that. JF Okay. I'm not suggesting we do, but... PD Okay, and Nicole Criste who's got to get off to another general plan meeting in Banning will now just kind of go through the economic analysis. RAS Welcome back from Greenland. NC Labrador. RAS It was cold (inaudible) NC It was very cold. Mr. Mayor, members of Council, my name is Nicole Criste, and I'm with Terra Nova, and we've...using the cost revenue analysis that we did for the environmental impact report, we were asked to prepare a similar analysis for just the university park area based on the square footages and the units that Phil developed for that area. So the analysis that I passed out before the meeting, which is entitled "Cost Benefit Analysis for the University Park Planning Area" shows you what the costs and revenues associated with build out of the Planning Commission recommendation would be. And we've broken them out into revenue categories for property tax as though this were a non -redevelopment area, sales tax, the Shadow Ridge fees, which are similar to what one might expect from transient occupancy tax, motor vehicle in lieu fees, franchise fees and charges which are an assortment of charges that the City receives ranging from building permits to business licenses, that sort of thing. The potential gross revenue as a non -redevelopment area is 9 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL JF NC JF FEBRUARY 5, 2004 about $13.2 million. The costs, which are calculated on a per capita basis and include police and fire safety provision for that area and are conservative because they are a straight division of population by general fund expenditures in the 2002/2003 budget, would be approximately $7.6 million. So the net revenue annually from the development of the Planning Commission alternative would be $5.5 million. If you remove the property tax revenue, since this is a redevelopment area, the net revenue to the general fund would go down to $4.3 million, but the redevelopment tax increment, which is the last thing that's shown on your chart, would be approximately $7.7 million. So the offset is considerable given the fact that this area is in the redevelopment project area. The second sheet that was...that we provided was a calculation of the jobs that would be generated in this area. We have about sixteen and a half thousand commercial type jobs, including the hotel jobs at Shadow Ridge. We have 5900 industrial jobs, which can range from R and D type, research and development type, jobs to warehousing. Industrial is a very broad category, so there's a broad range of types of jobs there. So the area could generate twenty two and a half thousand potential jobs in the land uses that are proposed. And the area also generates a population of 10,500 people. If we assume that 4400, which is 42% of that population, will be employed and would be employed within university park, then there's a net job generation for people to live in other parts of the city or people who live in other cities, 18,000 jobs that could be generated in this area. And I understand that there was a question about the jobs/housing balance and the balance in the rest of the city. I did a little bit of research on that for you. There are 17,384 employed residents of Palm Desert. 8,000 of those, or 42%, work in the city. 54% work outside the city. There are 24,998 jobs, and these are all 2000 statistics, in the city, so for all intents and purposes 25,000 jobs in the city. And so 32% of those jobs are held by city residents, 8,020 jobs, again in the year 2000 numbers. Only one in three people that live here actually work here? Correct. So we're housing...two-thirds of our city is a workforce for some place other than Palm Desert. NC Correct. (Inaudible) NC Well...no, 54% of the employed population works outside the city. JF What was the 32% figure then? 10 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 NC The 32% is of the jobs available in the city. There are 25,000 jobs in the city. JF Okay. NC 8,000 residents work at those jobs. Of the total population of the city, which is 43,000, there are 17,400 who are employed. JF Okay. NC And it's a statistical ball juggling because these numbers get very confusing, and I'm sorry about that. That's as simple as I can make the analysis. And the issue of jobs/housing balance then becomes...and there is an analysis if you would like to take a look in the El at the end of the socio-economic section of the costs of housing as they relate to the income associated with different types of jobs. Are there any other questions? RAS Yes. Mayor Pro Tem. BAC Nope...took care of it. RAS Good (inaudible) — NC Thank you. PD Kind of an additional comment on that. One of the issues, not only in terms of gross number of jobs and gross number of housing is matching the type of housing with the type of jobs. One of our problems is that a large percentage of those 24,000 jobs are retail service, which are relatively low pay, while the bulk of our housing, especially as it's been built in the last 20 years, has been relatively high cost housing. So...if you want to maximize the likelihood of a good...of city residents being able to be employed...and the other thing that's happening is hopefully that with the university our predominance of high income housing should go up with the university and the commercial industrial that will occur on the university, which will increase the likelihood for a better match of not only jobs and housing but the types of jobs and the types of housing. I think next on the agenda we had...and John's going to speak to this...that pretty much completes the discussion on the land use within the city limits. The other component of land use that's still shown on the land use plan, although it's obviously more speculative and less immediate in terms of our concern, is we did show recommended land use for the area north of 1-10, and... (Inaudible) PD Yes. 11 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL JC FEBRUARY 5, 2004 In a nutshell...good afternoon, and excuse my cold. In a nutshell, the discussion we had early on was we may not aspire to control all the land around the city, but we certainly would like to arm ourselves, if you will, with enough information and enough thoughtful consideration that if the County or somebody else were to make a proposal for something, we would be in a good position to provide an informed response. So the General Plan Advisory Committee extended the...agreed to extend...the extended boundary of the planning area would go up to the Joshua Tree National Monument boundary. Obviously nothing private could happen beyond that limit. And to be able to at least address concerns on the north side of the interstate, and then the broader regional concerns which the city has taken significant leadership in, things like open space, wildlife conservation, water conservation, and things of that sort. The...during the preparation of the land use preferred alternative under the GPAC, we're taking advantage of the interchanges and looking at the County's general plan as was then recommended and pretty much as they ultimately did adopt. We were using their map, and we intensified some of the uses, primarily along the interstate and some of the residential uses, which brought some higher densities closer to the preserve, which we...in retrospect, we thought that wasn't so well advised and had heard from at least one group about that concern. And that was primarily the area of change that we made and reflected in one of the alternatives that's in the EIR. The other was that we...the County had originally had the lowest density possible in the north end...they had it at one unit per 40 acres, and so we went along with that and thought that was a good idea because it was an area where there's not potable ground water and it's Sky Valley where low density makes sense. Anyhow...and the County changed that designation eventually back to one unit per 20 acres, so we have asked that you agree to change that designation in...l think it's Desert Estates...to one dwelling unit for 20 acres. Otherwise, our recommendation was that you adopt the...what is the less intense alternative for the General Plan as shown in the EIR and that would bring us into very close correspondence with the County's adopted general plan. I'II be glad to answer any questions. RAS (Inaudible) specifically north of... JC North of the interstate. RAS So we have no control. JC You have control over some of it officially by virtue of it being in your sphere of influence, so the County must come to you and confer with you on lands in your sphere of influence. Other portions are not in your sphere of influence, but you still have standing because they are adjacent to your jurisdiction. They just don't have to officially notify you. 12 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL RAS JC RAS JC RAS BAC (Inaudible) BAC FEBRUARY 5, 2004 The land has purchased for a development. Yes, that's correct. You know that there's a Catholic school planned north of (inaudible) I've heard something to that effect. Also, the train center project is north of there and other kinds of projects. When that's developed it won't be one unit per 20 acres (inaudible) That's a question that I had. You're making some comments about this. The maps that we have in front of us don't even go as far as the Coachella Valley Preserve let alone what you just (inaudible) all the way to Joshua Tree National Park, which is where (inaudible) Well, my point is the one we're working on and talking about today doesn't come anywhere near to that, and so what would be helpful to me would be, number one, a map of the area north of the freeway that very nicely delineates our...that delineates our area of...that we have any official (inaudible) JC The general plan (inaudible) BAC Is the sphere of influence line on that? JC Yes. In the general plan in the EIR documents it is. (Inaudible) PD I can describe basically we have (inaudible) the sphere of influence is (inaudible) this triangle south of 38th and Del Webb. BAC That's it. PD That's it. BAC So some of the areas we're talking about are significantly (inaudible) from that area. JC (Inaudible) substantially greater area by far without question. RAS Any other questions? 13 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 JF I have no further (inaudible) PD One other little item..you have a memo from me that was also handed out...last meeting there was some discussion about developing different standards on...different OP standards on different types of roadways...this is not the time to actually produce a new ordinance, but if you...in the urban design element we have an existing policy 10 which states commercial institutional industrial development projects shall contribute positively to the design objectives of the community and the specific district or corridor design standards and guidelines in which they are located. Proposing that to that we add a program that...a specific program that the office professional OP shall be amended to include more restrictive architectural height and setback standards along non -arterial street corridors to ensure compatibility with surrounding residential areas. And so then we'll proceed with developing an ordinance amendment. Another thing to take note of...l always hate to bring these things up, but I'm always compelled...the discussion on Deep Canyon which we were hoping to defer to a specific hearing. That applicant has withdrawn his application, so there will not be a specific hearing. We're then...we therefore propose that based on the Planning Commission's action that the OP zone be pulled back to the south side of Ramona. If you want to see it on the (inaudible)...I guess this is again serendipity...in reality, the original map was drawn with it going a little bit further north, but when the graphic Deep Canyon was put on it wiped out that portion. So...as shown is then as the Planning Commission now recommends it. And that...so that completes...if there are any other questions about land use issues. RAS Are you saying it's not necessary for us to do anything (inaudible) PD RAS Basically you're just confirming that as it's shown there is now is the appropriate extent of the OP designation. It's a couple of lots more. Right now there's two lots between the last office and the corridor of Ramona, and this would extend it to the corner of Ramona. Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak to this? Quite a few people here today. If we start to get involved in any area that you're interested in, please let me know so that you can have your place. TN I am Tom Noble, 74-075 El Paseo, Suite A through E, Palm Desert. Sorry...I'm not really clear. Are we talking of the area on this side of the freeway now, the Portola/Gerald Ford/Dinah Shore area? Is that what you want to hear about or... PD Yes, the whole (inaudible) 14 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 TN Okay. Thank you. Specifically, I would like to just refer to two letters that I sent to Mr. Drell during the Planning Commission hearings. There's one dated September 15' and one dated October 7'h. I think those have been provided to you and would just like to incorporate those in your proceedings as well. In particular, I'm talking today about the what will be the intersection of Portola Avenue and Dinah Shore Drive. The northwest corner of that intersection you can see on the map...excuse my pointing, but where Portola goes up above Gerald Ford and then sort of a curved line...actually, right in there, exactly. That's contiguous to the existing parcel map 24255 which is our commercial industrial project that runs from the Dinah Shore extension over to Monterey Avenue. The staff recommended alternative and the Planning Commission have recommended that that property stay in what is now service industrial and will become business industrial park as far as your zoning designation. I'm the owner of that property and would just like to express my support of that designation. There was some discussion at the advisory committee of making a portion of that high density residential, which I think would not be an appropriate use for a number of reasons as set forth in those letters but largely because of the proximity to the railroad tracks and the freeway and the fact that children living in that area would have to cross a very busy street to get to schools and parks and those things. RAS So you're suggesting that Planning Commission's recommendation...you're in agreement with. TN Yes, sir. RAS Okay. Thank you. TN Thank you very much. RAS Councilman Kelly, you had something you wanted to... RSK (Inaudible) JF What is the this you've got? RSK (Inaudible) we've accomplished something this afternoon (inaudible) BAC I would so second accomplishing something. RAS All in favor, please vote. RDK Well, just to make sure the Clerk's clear, what is it that you're looking at and you're approving. 15 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 BAC No, no, this will come back to haunt you later. JF Addition of Program 10B to the urban design element dealing with special office professional standards along non -arterial residential corridors. RDK Okay. RSK So that we can (inaudible) RDK Councilmember Benson...thank you. The motion carries by unanimous vote. RAS Thank you, Councilman Kelly. BAC Mr. Mayor. While we're in this area, Mr. Drell asked about land use...at our last meeting we noted that we would come back to the Palma Village Plan at this meeting. PD I...what my comment was...we did come back to the Palma Village Plan and we discussed what we thought was the area of controversy which was the interface with Palma Village at the Highway 111 alley. I didn't recall any...I don't recall any other issue of the Palma Village Plan which was... BAC Yes... PD For example. BAC (Inaudible) issue of commercial and whether commercial should back all the way along Fred Waring to... PD Oh, you're right. BAC ...Santa Rosa and whether we should buffer it and... PD You're right. BAC ...the pros and cons of that. PD You're right, right. BAC So I assume that we have decided to have that at our next meeting? PD Mr. Criste will be able to present it at the next meeting. 16 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL RAS PH FEBRUARY 5, 2004 Thank you. Now is there anyone else who would like to speak, address the Council on anything we've covered so far? Please give us your name and address. I'm Pam Hardy representing Ponderosa Homes, and we are at the Palm Springs office, I'm sorry I don't have the street address for you. But if you can indulge me for a moment given that Ponderosa Homes is the property owner of approximately 120 acres which is bounded by Dinah Shore, Portola, and Gerald Ford, the property just south of the property that Mr. Noble, the previous speaker, just spoke in regard to. We're relatively new to the desert community. As some of you might be aware, we're primarily a northern California home builder; however, for the past year, we've been building and selling homes in La Quinta. It's been an extremely positive project for us, and so we're very excited about having the opportunity to work together with the City staff and the Council on our Palm Desert project. My purpose today in addressing the Council is essentially to support the staff recommended alternative which again has been supported by the Planning Commission. We have developed a plan with staff's input that is consistent with your existing General Plan designation for the 80 acres of our site. That's the low density residential district designation. Frankly, we're indifferent to the high density designation at the northern portion of the site. We are not a high density attached home builder, but we certainly understand the City's objective in getting a wide range. Thank you. (Inaudible) RAS Is that zoned low density or high density or medium density? PD On your (inaudible) this area here, large area is low density. There's an area of medium density (inaudible) small area of high density up against the (inaudible) RAS That whole area is yours? PH Yes, it is. RAS That's what your plans are currently? PH The 80 acres that comprises the low density is consistent with the low density designation. Again, we just want to reiterate our support for the staff recommended and the Planning Commission alternative. That really concludes my remarks. I want to thank you for your time, and we're looking forward to the conclusion of the General Plan update process and proceeding with the work on our project. Thank you. 17 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 RAS Thank you very much. Is there anybody else who would like to address the Council? Seeing no one, Phil, where do you want to go from here? PD Now is the time to accomplish something, I guess, at least relative to the general land use map...or, do you want to talk about it, or...it's up... (inaudible) PD That's an urban design issue relative to a very specific area. RAS How about the recommendation on Portola? Are you ready to come back with a recommendation on Portola between Fred Waring and Mag Falls? PD I think you've already...you've already acted on that by a 3-2 vote. JF PD Well, let's chat about the university village. And I assume at some point, we skipped over it on our Agenda, but we're going to have an overview of the other elements? Yes. We figured once we got into the meat we would finish with the meat and then move on to the...yeah, we also would like to talk about traffic as well, so we were... JF Right. RAS Councilman Ferguson. JF PD JF Well, on the university village map, university park area, sorry, on the General Plan 2000 Planning Commission recommended alternative, a couple things. While I don't want to get too specific, at the same time I want to sort of advertise what some of our preferred land uses are. And I feel very strongly that if we have an area where we think we may want commercial resort in the form of a hotel, even though it's allowed in other zones that aren't nominated as such, that we should do so. For the life of me I don't know why east of Gerald Ford and north of Frank Sinatra we think a hotel resort development is going to go in on that triangular piece of property. It seems to me that property makes a lot more sense for residential since it's closer to the park that we're building and that far right hand side, the purple triangle right under the word "interstate"... That is a develop...that's Emerald Desert...that's an RV park. It's an existing RV park? 18 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 PD That's an existing developed RV park, which is...they're building it out phase by phase...they just completed a new phase, but that's...it was designated for resort commercial because that's what the entitlement (inaudible) JF All of that is already otherwise occupied or planned to be occupied? PD Correct. JF And Marriott Shadow Ridge is already being built out or has finished being built out, so those two properties are gone. PD They are entitled. Marriott has completed approximately 200...a little over 200 units of the 999. JF Okay, and we've entitled the Desert Gateway/WalMart area at Monterey and Dinah Shore. PD Correct, as regional commercial, yes. JF And at least the first portion of the IBP zone west of Cook along the railroad tracks, we have development there, don't we? — PD We pretty much have various forms of development all the...along the railroad tracks all the way from Cook to Monterey. We have approved maps and some approved buildings proceeding. JF Does that include the little triangular piece Mr. Noble was just talking about? PD Not yet. JF Okay, so that one's open. I guess my point is, if we are going to diversify our revenue and increase our TOT through a hotel development, it seems to me there's no more resort hotel sites left in the City, Desert Willow notwithstanding. PD Well, that's significant (inaudible) JF Well, it's a 20-year planning year document... PD Right. JF ...so an additional hotel somewhere in our city might be, at least to one Councilmember's thinking, appropriate, and an appropriate spot for that, to me, would be next to a potential third golf course right on the strip where we have the low density residential. And I'm trying to figure out from what is left 19 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL PD JF PD JF PD JF FEBRUARY 5, 2004 to be entitled where we could relocate that housing if we were to put a hotel there, which is a little difficult. And I also think, again just one person's opinion, that the 140 or 50 acres that we own next to Marriott Shadow Ridge...why don't we have a timeshare zone where we advertise to people that yes, we would like to see timeshares here if that's what the Council decides to do because I don't see in all these land use designations anything that indicates...I don't know if you'd lump that into a hotel which is buried within another zone... We could...in the General Plan...remember, these aren't zones, these are land use designations...we consider it a resort commercial use. As far as we're concerned, Marriott Shadow Ridge looks, acts, quacks like a hotel, and so we...and we've now tried to regulate them from a revenue point of view as a hotel. But it seems to me the General Plan decided to zone all of our 140 acres low density residential. We tried to work in every case closely with the property owners. That was one property owner that we received no guidance from until now. No, but we're the property owner. That's what I mean. Okay, they didn't consult with us or at least not three of us, I guess the two folks that were on the Committee. (Inaudible) PD Now is the time. JF Well, that's another one that I just wanted to throw out. And also, I noticed that on the parks, there's about 17 million for acquisition? PD No. JF I'm trying to remember what you (inaudible) PD No. The actual acquisition, if you look at...17 million is construction. Acquisition...based on the amount of residential units that we're getting, we should be able to get all the park land dedicated per the Quimby Act. 17 thousand is construction. JF 17 million. 20 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL PD JF PD JF FEBRUARY 5, 2004 17 million is construction. We should get all the land...you know, we're entitled to get five acres per thousand population, and so we pretty much will get the...we should be able to get something close to the...what'd I have, 40- something, 40-some acres of...42 acres of land should be dedicated as a result of development. And how did we come up with the...what was the process behind putting the schools where the schools have been put and the (inaudible) decision of whether there should be schools at all? Well, obviously we got input from the agency who's in control of schools. The...probably the K through 8 middle school, elementary/middle schools we tried to put centrally within a neighborhood. Originally, actually the...the K through 8 school is the one that's south of 35`h, east of Gateway, and again that was done in cooperation with the property owners who own the property in that area and the school district in terms of how...a plan that would, in my view, best...you know, again...if you look at the GPAC alternative, the school was more centrally located, but various negotiations with property owners and the school district... Well, I guess my question is when we sought to realign the school district boundaries so that all of our city was contained within one school district instead of being bifurcated between two, we were assailed by our west valley neighbors about the overflow demand at Cathedral City High School and how those needs needed to be relieved through the process of a new facility, and I'm just wondering why they would choose to put a school at the very eastern boundary of their district instead of closer to where they said the problem was. PD Their district also includes 1000 Palms, which they anticipate significant new demand from. BAC That gives them yet another place to put a school. PD Again, those are discussions... BAC And we're not obliged to zone any of that for this, right? PD We're not obliged to designate it. BAC That answers my question. PD Right. It is a significant land use. The problem is that they have the ability... BAC I just asked a question. 21 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL PD Yeah. (Inaudible) FEBRUARY 5, 2004 PD No. And I can...1'II explain why it's there. Whether it happens or not, it is a major significant facility. The school district has the ability and the power to locate a school district, whether we agree to it or not. RAS Unless it's a park. PD No, unless...once they purchase it...and the reason why it was shown, it's a major...the prospect of a school there is a significant public facility that has impacts with traffic and all sorts of things... RAS Mayor Pro Tem BAC (Inaudible) the prospect of it not being there by our General Plan also has implications. PD I'm not sure what they are. BAC Fine. RAS Could I ask our attorney to comment on it. DJE The school district obviously has the power to condemn property for a location. Certainly they are supposed to consult with us prior to doing that. They get, however, to make the final decision on the location. RAS (Inaudible) RDK JMB RAS Well, they haven't consulted with us, so (inaudible) part of our General Plan. Is your microphone on, just to double check? (Inaudible) for a school whether it's in Palm Springs District or Desert Sands. If it ever happened that that was in the Desert Sands area, we'd want a school out there, so it should be designated in there, in the General Plan, as a school. To ascertain who's going to do it is in the future, but certainly with all the homes that we're contemplating out there, we need a school zone in there someplace. (Inaudible) comment and then I'II turn it over to Councilman (inaudible) agree that there should be a grade school in the area to take care of the population, but the need for a high school I believe is wrong. I think it's too 22 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 far away from where they're so overcrowded now, and I would be opposed to any high school out in that area. It really takes care of the residents of 1000 Palms, Cathedral City, and Rancho Mirage. JMB Well, I thought we were talking about the land that was for the K through... PD K through 8. What alternative land use would you want to put there? JMB (Inaudible) the high school was that they wanted it at Portola and Dinah Shore (inaudible) PD Yes, the high school was there. JMB (Inaudible) the piece on Gerald Ford there. (Inaudible) RAS Councilman Kelly. RSK PD RSK PD Well, if I count the number of residential units proposed by the Planning Commission, it's a lot more units than I would (inaudible) only about 4,000 units (inaudible) about the size of the City of Indian Wells...about the size of Indian Wells, and how many high school students come out of Indian Wells or a city that size. I understand that they're a different makeup...you don't need to remind me of that. But 4,000 is a very, very small city regardless of what the makeup is...it hardly would support a high school. When you have this vast amount of property (inaudible) high school, and this location which is on the eastern boundary (inaudible) I would admit they need another high school, but why would you put it on the border of your area that you're going to serve. If you decide where you're going to put the park, you're going to put it where the people are (inaudible) you're going to put it where the (inaudible) doesn't make any sense to put a high school way over on the eastern boundary when you have this tremendous amount of development that's going to go between there and (inaudible) doesn't make any sense (inaudible) taxpayers shouldn't allow that waste. And then that puts all those cars on the street to get them to the high school, and when you talk about job housing balance, well what about school housing balance. (Inaudible) ever worry about that. If you want an alternative land use, then you're very welcome and free to choose another land use for that location. That's your answer for the school housing balance. We're...it was... 23 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 RSK I wish you'd promote some of these other things like you do your own agenda. PD It was a recognition of...my perception is the determination of the school district to try to go there and... RSK Well, I wish we had as much influence on you as the school district. RAS Mayor Pro Tem BAC Mr. Mayor. PD Believe me, you do, sir. BAC I certainly wouldn't want to in any way take away these opportunities from our colleagues in Rancho Mirage (inaudible) unfair that we would try to grab all of these facilities in a sense. I certainly agree with Councilman Kelly on that. This isn't the spot, it isn't the park, it isn't the rest of it. Might we look at least (inaudible) look for some alternative uses for that land. RSK It has nothing to do with whether I want them or don't want them. It has to do with what makes common sense. BAC Right. RAS Councilwoman Benson. JMB Well, again, it might not make common sense for a high school, but it certainly does to have a grade school out in that area, and I don't think that we should leave that out of the General Plan. RAS I don't disagree. RSK And I didn't address that. RAS So can we redesignate the are (inaudible) PD Sure, what... BAC Why don't we look at the options as we go through this. PD Sure. JF Well, depending on what we do, I noticed that GPAC had their map and Planning Commission had their map. I'd like to come up with a Council map 24 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 to take a look at and at least attempt, if there's a consensus, to try and incorporate two of my previous comments about the resort commercial and possibly the timeshare designation on our own property. PD That's... JF And we can look at a number of things for that school site off of Portola, is it, where the high school is proposed? PD Correct. JF And I certainly think that from a community standards aspect, we have a high school that's going to go through a multi -million dollar renovation. To have two high schools in our city when Rancho Mirage has none, and the need is in Cathedral City just makes absolutely no sense to me at all. RAS Mayor Pro Tem BAC Just ask a different question. Frank Sinatra and Portola...GPAC alternative has the...this would be the northwest corner of that intersection as residential and the Planning Commission is recommending a chunk of it be commercial office professional. Is there any reason...do we have some shortage of OP down there that we need that? Or is that back to a person who has been advocating his property (inaudible) more expensive for the last five years.? Is that the same piece of property? PD No....it is not the last five years, it's the last year and a half. It is a compatibility issue...you remember the Planning Commission had recommended the change... BAC Right, and we rejected it. PD ...then and therefore they, consistent with that they recommended the change. Again, they feel at a corner of two major arterials that OP is a more appropriate use than residential... BAC That is the thing that came to us and we rejected, right? PD Part of the reason why you rejected it... BAC I didn't ask... PD ...you put it off to the discussion of the General Plan. BAC The answer is yes, then. 25 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL PD Yes. FEBRUARY 5, 2004 BAC Okay. On the corner of Gerald Ford and Portola, on the southeast corner, GPAC has an area sort of a swerve of open space, OSPR. PD Correct. I believe... BAC And the Planning Commission has mixed use all the way, and I'm curious as to how that particular...unless I'm misreading something (inaudible) just south of where the school district is. PD Originally there was an institutional use put there, and I think just when it changed...when graphically we changed it to mixed use, the swath wasn't extended, so the swath...it was not intended that the swath of open space be terminated at the corner, so that's more of a graphic error that the...you see that swath extending down Gerald Ford on the south side in both, and it just...when the Planning Commission changed the designation from more office institutional use to mixed use, the swath was inadvertently eliminated. But the idea would be the...to continue an open space element on that corner. BAC The GPAC has open space public reserve, and the Planning Commission doesn't, and I'm just...(inaudible) PD What I'm saying is... BAC (Inaudible) some point that needs to be clarified. PD What I was saying is if you look on the Planning Commission one, you see the open space reserve even though it's partially covered up by the graphic Gerald Ford. You see kind of green in between it on the south side of Gerald Ford and that should have continued around the corner. BAC And it's the same kind of depth in one alternative versus the other? PD Again, general plans are general. If you looked on the analysis I tried to...l figured something between a fifty and a hundred foot depth. You know, the big issue there is how we're going to accomplish it, how we're going to buy it, how we're going to maintain it. RAS Councilman Kelly. RSK Well, I'm all (inaudible) ?? Sorry about that. MINUTES MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL RSK FEBRUARY 5, 2004 What I want (inaudible) between land use and circulation (inaudible) because (inaudible) corner at Portola and whatever that (inaudible) north of Gerald Ford. PD Dinah Shore. RSK That's Dinah Shore extended. Okay, Dinah Shore...the Dinah Shore/Portola intersection is (inaudible) everybody agrees that to have open space all around those corners (inaudible) When you talk about circulation (inaudible) you're looking for a higher level that's all about intersections and driveways. So if we want to have a higher level of service as far as traffic circulation is concerned, we need to also include it in the land use and keep all corners for major thoroughfares clear. So that one looks good, but then (inaudible) do the same thing at Gerald Ford and Portola as Gerald Ford and Cook and Frank Sinatra and Portola and any other intersection (inaudible) those levels of service. Then the other thing is (inaudible) Mayor Pro Tem Crites that I don't understand why (inaudible) with GPAC. In this case (inaudible) I don't know why we would put commercial office professional (inaudible) out of the clear blue skies it pops up there. I see no reason for that, and it's the same with up on Gerald Ford at the southwest corner of Gerald Ford and Portola, same thing there, commercial office professional, I don't understand why we put that in there (inaudible) corners there, I don't remember being consulted about that either. Isn't that on our property (inaudible) PD The southwest corner of Portola and Gerald Ford? RSK The extension there, commercial goes all the way over to Marriott timeshare. PD RSK The answer was we had designated only the private property, and again it's...and the extension of it was at the suggestion of a Planning Commissioner who felt from a compatibility point of view that professional office is the appropriate use that will...having uses that face major arterials. But that was a suggestion of a Planning Commissioner. Anyways, I don't see that (inaudible) zoning in all those different places (inaudible) spread out like that (inaudible). If we want to (inaudible) protect the traffic circulation (inaudible) of our city, why we want to stick those kinds of things (inaudible) have a real upscale atmosphere those open spaces on those corners are going to be (inaudible) RAS Councilman Crites RSK (Inaudible) going to serve a purpose (inaudible) traffic circulation 27 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL BAC FEBRUARY 5, 2004 Two comments reacting to Richard's comments. One, I assume we came up with some set of perhaps criteria for why we have open space at the Dinah Shore/Portola interchange. And whatever that set of criteria had to be, then it might be useful to see if we can apply those to some of the other intersections that we believe will carry the same kind of volumes of traffic if indeed it was appropriate to do that at this one, unless there's something particularly odd about this intersection. PD (Inaudible) BAC (Inaudible) Richard's square off correct that certainly the Cook Street/Dinah Shore and so on and so on, other places, are going to have the same exact issues, so I think we ought to look at a what do we want to do on intersections out there. And then the other one is regarding the office professional on the south side of Gerald Ford. The young lady from Ponderosa Homes just told us how enthused she was going to be for building homes on the north side... PD They'd be facing... BAC ...of that street... PD Facing inward, correct. BAC ...so if she's going to unload those on somebody for a profit, which I assume she is, and certainly nobody's going to buy or build homes or put that together with the idea this will be a meandering country road, you know, and Ponderosa Homes knows this is a major thoroughfare, and they'll design their urban home settings with that in mind. We can certainly do the same thing on the other side of the same street. I agree we don't need OP to buffer on one side when apparently they're quite happy to build homes on the other side. RAS Comment (inaudible) RSK (Inaudible) Well, I'll do a real quick one. RAS Okay. RSK Just because it kind of ties in with Mayor Pro Tem, is that we're always working to create a buffer for commercial offices, so now we don't have that concern, so we're going to create something so we have to worry about a buffer. That doesn't make any sense. 28 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 RAS I'm going to piggy back a little bit on that. We're going to have another comment. (Inaudible) things that I'm surprised at is the small amount of regional commercial that we have in our city based on the square footage of our city. We live off of that. And when you tell me it's such a small percentage that we have on 111 and El Paseo, etcetera, I'm impressed. We must be doing it right. And when you see all the places filled up, we're doing it right. And I think what we did on Fred Waring is magnificent. I think the fact that Fred Waring became a thoroughfare that people were glad to move off, and we' ve got office professional all together, and people that drive down Fred Waring, they see the office professional all together, it looks terrific. But I agree that you put it on the corner here, and you put it on the corner there, and you put it on the corner there, doesn't mean anything. Cook Street is Cook Street, and it's all on Cook Street, and that's the way it should be. The other thing, I made a comment early on that when it came to commercial, now we've got regional commercial, community commercial, general commercial, neighborhood commercial, and resort commercial. Well I found out today that resort commercial is hotel. So I'd like to change that designation to hotel if everybody's in agreement. Secondly, in a city our size, there's only really two kinds of commercial, regional commercial and there's the neighborhood commercial. Neighborhood commercial takes care of the groceries and the cleaners and the drug store, etcetera, and the regional commercial includes Westfield Shoppingtown, etcetera, and Costco and where the new WalMart will go. And I really would like to get rid of some of those so we don't have so many darned commercials. Councilman Ferguson. JF Two other comments. It seems to me we're kind of clustering our residential high density with two parcels next to each other off of whatever that street is going to be called to the north on Gerald Ford. I thought we had always sort of tried to go out of our way to spread it out a little bit so that there wasn't a high density section of Palm Desert, it was just a mix like the rest of the residential mix. PD We did try to spread it out. Again, I guess in the two different neighborhoods...again, we only have...there's only a hundred acres of it, total, and it's roughly divided, one to the other, one idea was to get a certain mass of it or certain volume of it next to the university where it was most logical. Also adjacent to Gerald Ford and since the clear, higher, more desirable low density was next to...was at the top of the ridge. So basically it layers from low density to medium density to high density to the highway and then the commercial. But again it's only...as I say, it's only a hundred acres, so it's not a...not a mass in any respect. And then, again, one of the actions that the Planning Commission actually did is they took about 15 acres of it that was there and moved it over to that section on the north side of Ponderosa's property on 35`h. So... 29 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL JF Well, a hundred acres at 22 density is 2200 folks. PD 2200 units, sure. JF Yeah, it's 2200 units, so it's probably 4000 folks. PD Sure. JF Well it seems to me to be pretty dense. FEBRUARY 5, 2004 PD One Quail Place is a...or a good example...San Tropez Villas is 25 acres, which is a quarter of the entire allotment that's in this whole area...it's at 22 units per acre. If you walk around there, I don't think you have any idea of an anthill or density. If you watch the traffic going in and out of it you don't have a...l don't think there's a perception of an over built condition... BAC (Inaudible) PD ...and, again, that one project is a quarter of the area. BAC New question. If you took one of those two parcels that's RH that's just north of Ponderosa Homes that's out on what will be 35th or whatever we call it, there's one on the left and one on the right...if you took one of those, acreage wise, how would that compare to San Tropez Villas? PD The...okay, this is the RH's on either side...just south of Gerald Ford, right? Which one are you looking at? BAC No, over here...over towards Mr. Noble's property... PD Okay, those two sites are probably about the size of...together, they're probably about 25 acres...they're probably about the size of San Tropez together. BAC Oh, okay, that helps me. Thank you. JF Another question. The triangular green piece of property on the northeast corner of Frank Sinatra/Portola that we sort of bought, that 170 acres, you see the RL designation immediately adjacent to it to the northeast? PD The RL...yes, which is low density. JF How many acres is that? PD About 78 acres, I believe. 30 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 JF And Mr. Noble's piece, just north of the two high density parcels that are similar in size to San Tropez...how many acres is that? PD I believe that is about 20 or 30 acres....29, 30 acres...yeah, close...29 acres. JF Okay. RAS Any other questions? BAC Curiosity. Over on the university site, just to the north of that we have that strip in blue that's designated next to the freeway. PD The question is... BAC Well, my question is...is there any use for that in terms of (inaudible) adjacency in terms of housing? PD Unfortunately, it's kind of in the...it's right up against the railroad tracks, and it's relatively narrow on the eastern side. On the western side, it's in kind of the crotch of the off ramp. BAC That was the old ice rink (inaudible) PD Right, so...for pure student housing, one could argue...if you want to build dorms there, I don't know... BAC Never mind. I'm not asking for a student ghetto. PD Yeah...the answer is... BAC You thought about it and no. PD Yeah, we thought about it and it's not ideal. BAC Okay. RAS Any other questions of Mr. Drell? RSK I don't know if it should be talked about in circulation or land use, but we've always talked about some kind of a bicycle, pedestrian, golf cart path that went all the way from Washington to Monterey, and so did we include that somewhere? PD Yes. Have they been given the bike path map? 31 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 MG The bike path map has been in some of the materials. We do have a bike map. PD The answer is yes. RSK The problem being that as long as I've been on the Council, I've tried to promote...I think that would be a really tremendous thing if somebody could...any of these neighborhoods could go down...and when we do the interchange at Portola, we'll have an opportunity even to bring that path under Portola when we do the interchange, which would be nice if we would have done that at Washington and Monterey. And it would be nice from any of this area you could get on a bicycle or a golf cart and go all the way to the proposed train station at Casino, and so we'd work with Rancho Mirage or the County, whoever had that, and make that long nice stretch. You talk about using alternate forms of transportation, but if we don't have that written into our General Plan and somebody comes to the City for a permit to do something and we never acquired an appropriate amount of dedicated right- of-way so that we could maintain and eventually get that route in there. PD It is in our plan. RSK It's in the General Plan. PD It's in the General Plan circulation...in our golf cart, bike map of the circulation element, it is in there. RSK And it's in this one written right here? PD I'm not sure it's in that one, but our most recent revision...the most revised exhibits do show it. RSK I went through that one and I didn't remember. PD Well, if not (inaudible) RSK (Inaudible) circulation one. PD (Inaudible) You'll also see that when we talk about circulation that on all the major thoroughfares and arterials and collectors where we don't see any reason for parking, the street section includes golf, bike lanes and virtually you'll see on this map...virtually this entire area is honeycombed with bike paths. (Inaudible) 32 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 RSK Now, could we also start talking to the County and the City of Rancho Mirage so that that could be carried through to the train station. (Inaudible) RSK Yeah, that's adjacent to us and something we should have some influence on. BAC PD In that same light, Mark, while you're still here, we're planning whatever designations we do on the west side of Cook Street, we're going to have a pile of people and commercial and everything else. And 20 years from now, we're also probably going to have a very, very active university and Tots of people. Have we given thought somewhere along that Cook Street between Gerald Ford and the entrance to the university to have either over the top or underneath a way to get folks in bicycles, golf carts, and pedestrians across that street without having to have folks run the six -lane gauntlet. I just think...if you're looking at 20-year planning, setting something out there that gets them either under or over that street is going to be...boy, is that going to be something that gets used. When we bring back the commercial project, which you half approved, we've had discussions with him, and he is...we have looked at possible landing spots on his...on that project for a pedestrian bridge. And so that would be something to (inaudible) more further on in detail with that project of where that spot could be. RAS On Berger Drive, you're talking about? BAC Yeah...or if it should be there or if it should be down on the Gerald Ford corner...I'm not sure of that, but somewhere we ought to have something that gets folks on bicycles and even golf carts are possible...something that's wide enough to get folks in alternate transportation across that. RSK But what if you put it on Gerald Ford and included an overpass for cars and everything so there would be no stop sign there. BAC A flyway? RSK A flyway. BAC Returns. MG To try to address it just briefly, we've...that concept has been studied both with the university general plan and in some of the commercial proposals that have been on the west side of Cook Street, so it's something we're 33 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 thinking of. But it would be a great help if it was specifically identified in the General Plan. BAC Absolutely. MG So it's a good idea. I don't think it's specifically mentioned. RAS That's your recommendation at (inaudible) MG Yes, sir. JF Mark, while you're up there, the (inaudible) depicted on this map. MG Yes. JF Is it envisioned that there will be more collector streets developed on these subdivisions or are these the only access points. MG When we get to transportation, which may be in a little bit, Rachelle has some...the circulation map to hand out which does differ slightly from the various land use maps. JF Okay. I'll wait. BAC I note on park land that, quite appropriately, there's park land next to the public school facility that's over near Monterey, and that certainly works, thank you, Mr. Mayor, quite well. And that's great. And then I notice the other sort of hither and about...we have a large enough piece of park land out there to do the kinds of things that we're really going to be...for instance, I'm looking at the fact that...kinds of what we have right outside our door here. PD RAS PD Okay, the...and it could go somewhere else (inaudible) might be a good place for where the high school is, but the site that you see on the west side of Portola, that's 25 acres, which is roughly the size of Freedom Park (inaudible) an idea...what we have here is a regional park, this is 60 acres. If we want to, you know...again, we own all the surrounding land on that 25 acres...that 25 acres could turn into 30 or 40 or 50 or 60 if you want. I mean, part of the reason why we showed it there is it is generally centrally located and it's land we own, which makes it... But there's an awful lot of pocket parks out here. There are...they're not pocket parks, they're neighborhood parks, parks like...the one down...or actually bigger than what...the one down off of Cook 34 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 Street is five acres, so it's a significant...almost twice the size of the Palm Desert Country Club park or (inaudible) park we're building down at... RAS How far away is that from this larger park that you've got off of Portola between... PD It's a mile, mile and a half, but it's again...regional parks and neighborhood parks serve different functions. BAC Would you then, because that would be useful for me...in the General Plan, you know, when we come back to vote on this, it would be nice to know that one, two, and three are "neighborhood parks" and here's a list of the things that Parks and Rec Commission or whoever you folks believe those would be appropriate for. And then x is a regional park and here's what we want to do there. PD Sure. BAC It would just be nice to do that because, at least on the regional park, I want to make, as one person, I'd like to do my best to make sure that we have enough space. I've never yet seen a park where we haven't... PD Well, again, the one...we were calling it a community park...it can be as large as we want it since it's on land that we already own. RAS I guess that's the point, and also there's land out there that's going to be developed in low and moderate density homes, and they're going to probably provide some kind of facilities for the people that live there. PD These are typically straight subdivisions which typically don't. And, of course, part of the concept of these is a community...provides identity...just like that (inaudible) talked to people about Palm Desert Country Club. The impact of that park on that neighborhood has been substantial, not just from recreation but from a community point of view. So, again, the function of your own little park where you can send...you can walk half a block with your kids to, or the kid can as opposed to crossing major arterials to get to, for the bigger facilities is a different function. RAS In my opinion, that's not a good comparison because that park is so far away from the Civic Center Park that they're not going to use it. But (inaudible) some of these pocket parks when they're a mile, mile and a half away (inaudible) over a major thoroughfare to get there, I just think that we'd be better off to put that land with a larger park and do as Mayor Pro Tem Crites suggests because right now we're developing Freedom Park, and we don't have enough room to put all the things in Freedom Park that we'd like to. 35 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 PD Again, we can make this one bigger, but I don't think they substitute for a small neighborhood park. BAC Plus we also just are doing a neighborhood park way less than a mile from here. RAS That's right, Palma Village, you're right. BAC It's a tiny one, but it sure serves a purpose (inaudible) PD That's two acres, and it...again, it's a different animal. RAS I understand that. I'm (inaudible) JF And the purpose of that park was to try and shore up the neighborhood, clean it up, and give homeowners an incentive to fix up their yards. And if this is (inaudible) development...but Phil, if a neighborhood shopping market wanted to go out here, where would they go? PD 1 would say a good location would be (inaudible) JF And is this the one we've half approved already with office professional and retail? PD No, this is (inaudible) JF Okay. PD (Inaudible) Phase 2...you're not going to get the...the market is not going to be an appropriate land use until you get all the houses, so that would be...once the houses are there... JF At some point, we aren't going to want folks to go to WalMart to go grocery shopping or drive all the way up to Cook Street. PD No, my prediction is with the WalMarts to the world coming in, we're going to see a proliferation of Trader Joe's for the people that don't want to spend, you know, and hour and a half wandering around a 2500...1 mean 250,000 square foot store, and that would be a great location for it. RAS Questions of (inaudible) JF Now is Phil just supposed to absorb all these comments and come back with a new plan, or where do we go? 36 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL RAS FEBRUARY 5, 2004 I think your comment was well taken and that was put together a plan now (inaudible) recommended so we can take a look at it. You've got one from GPAC, you've got one from Planning Commission. PD I would like some specific...and what I see as being specific to start with would be what do you want to suggest for the high school site? RAS (Inaudible) a motion on that? PD Or just a direction if we're going to come up with a new map...give us as much, you know, we can almost go...this is kind of what the Planning Commission...you know, they went land use by land use, or we can go by neighborhood by neighborhood and say what do you want changed. And if we start with the, what I call the Cook Street university neighborhood, which is the area bounded by Gerald Ford and Frank Sinatra, Portola, Cook Street...again, relative to your question about the park, you know, we have a Park & Rec meeting Wednesday, we can...you know, they can comment and bring you back comments on the neighborhood park issue from that meeting. But, other than that, is there anything in that section... RAS Councilman Kelly has a comment. RSK Well, rather than going through specific locations, which seems to me is inappropriate for a general plan, there's a big difference between what I hear here at the Council and what I see that the Planning Commission approved. Why can't we have the other end of the spectrum from some of the things that you've heard here that some of us would like to see. Why not have a map that takes the other...we can work on that and adjust it back the other way if we want, but we seem to be adjusting from one... JF Good point. RSK ...map...why not develop one that some of us that are more conservative about what we put out there and work...bring them together, whatever... PD I still need, then, specific... RAS Well, I think the consensus that you (inaudible) office professional just throw it out wherever it might be. BAC Yeah, but the way to do that is to just simply (inaudible) a square mile... PD Look at it. BAC ...and look at it. As... 37 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL PD And tell me. Tell me what you want. FEBRUARY 5, 2004 BAC ...an example, if we take the square mile of Monterey, Gerald Ford, Portola, and Frank Sinatra, because that's a nice, simple one... PD Sure. RSK And then you take the one above. BAC Then we take the one above. RSK One over there, one over there, one over there. JMB Better than redesigning the whole thing. BAC Right, then sort of walk through those... RSK Start with one, then BAC I would start with the Frank Sinatra, Portola, Gerald Ford, Monterey square mile. PD Okay, Frank Sinatra, Gerald Ford, Monterey, Portola, okay. BAC And would at least suggest that the reasons that I've heard for C/OP both on the north and the southerly boundaries are to me not persuasive when adjacent to that on the southerly boundary and across the street on the northerly boundary, we have residential low density that we will design with the urban streetscape mind. Even we can do it on one side of Gerald Ford or up the street... PD It won't be an urban...it will be the...it will be the back end...it will be a wall and a landscaped area like we normally... BAC Well, my point is, we're doing. PD Sure. BAC If we can do it on one side of the street and people are happy and they buy homes and their (inaudible), we can do it on the other side. So I would just simply, unless there's a need for C/OP, I'd remove those. JMB Well, if you remove the C/OP from those two, you could take the open space park and extend it up to that corner. Maybe you're going to enlarge that 38 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL JF FEBRUARY 5, 2004 piece of the park...it would be better to go straightup and make the park like our park here. Or, and this is how taking it section by section sometimes doesn't take into account a domino effect, but hypothetically, if we took the City's acreage and zoned it timeshare, if there were a majority of members on this body that wanted to do that, it seems to me the park would probably go over to the school site. We wouldn't have to worry about OP because it would be a mirror image of what's on it to the west. And that would, in turn, effect circulation because it would then be completely internal to the project (inaudible) external. And, you know, for 140 acres that we now apparently no longer have a need for for a new golf course, it would be nice to over the next 20 years have something that generates some revenue for the City. So between that and taking a look at a hotel next to the golf course...as I looked through this financial analyses, which I appreciated, verywell done, but every category of revenue in here is subject to a purse string from the State of California, and with what they're doing, what they've tried to do with our motor vehicle fees, what they are doing right now with our sales tax, it seems to me one of our big goals is to try and get a revenue source that doesn't have state strings attached to it. Right now, the only one...two sources of that are TOT through the hotel and in -lieu -of fee through the timeshares. And, you know, I'd be willing to sacrifice this wonderful expanse of retail and office professional for something that generated a diverse revenue string to the City. PD So you want to extend the... BAC Just a curiosity question. Is there anything that legally prevents the State from nosing into our TOT? I'm just curious. JF Yeah, I talked to Legislative Committee. We have a better argument with that than we do with anything else because it's never been a...there's never been a nexus to the State. They've made several inroads to try and do it, and it's been beaten back every time, and what little our charter means, if it means anything at all, would be our stand on TOT. RSK And we applied it, and we collect it. JMB And they tried to (inaudible) RSK The other stuff they collect, so they get their hands on it. JMB I was going to say they tried to get some of that with the Tourism Act, but it didn't work, so they had to find another revenue source to do that, and so that's pretty hard to touch. 39 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL RSK FEBRUARY 5, 2004 How about us putting at least a proposal on the table here so we can vote on this section that we've just chosen because I suspect that we all have our minds made up on what we think ought to be there. RAS So Frank Sinatra, Monterey, Gerald Ford, and Portola, correct? PD That's correct. RSK My (inaudible) we'd take out all C/OP and actually designate that as either...where we know that they're already constructing residential, leave that residential, then that property that...all that property that we own that is designated as timeshare or hotel or whatever you want to call it. PD Resort commercial or you want to call it hotel or you want to... RAS Hotel, let's call it hotel. PD Okay. So you want to also eliminate the resort commercial designation... JMB But if it (inaudible) condo, it wouldn't be designated specifically hotel or condo I don't think is right. PD Well, if it's our property, then... ?? Yeah, we control (inaudible) PD It's kind of a burden to put on a private property owner is what we learned in the past, but if it's on our property, then (inaudible) RSK My proposal would be remove the C/OP in that section and designate out property as hotel and leave the rest as what it's...low density residential. RAS That would include the office professional on Gerald Ford? RSK It would take it out. JF Take it out. RSK I see no reason to stick that in up there. JF And in that hotel designation... RSK And here's another thing. Gerald Ford is going to be a kind of a main corridor, and wouldn't we like the traffic going through there to see the kind of landscaping that we have in our city. If there's some way as we go along 40 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL RAS FEBRUARY 5, 2004 that we designate some kind of requirement to make some kind of landscape, especially where you're adjacent to OBP, that people driving through then on Gerald Ford, which a lot of them will come from the lower end of the Valley, they're going to cut in there and go across on Gerald Ford towards Rancho Mirage and Cathedral City, why not have something we're really proud of to go through there, so hey, we're... Let me ask you a question. There is going to be need (inaudible) for office professional in this area somewhere, and maybe we could take some of the industrial business park and... RSK I agree with it. RAS ...and make it office professional. RSK We can do that in that... RAS And it wouldn't hurt anybody. RSK Right. PD It can be used that way now. And basically we're getting what they call flex buildings which serve both purposes. RSK We have a lot of industrial that would make good... RAS Yeah, it makes more sense than (inaudible) That way we could eliminate all that office professional, those little pockets of it (inaudible) BAC Question. I would at least like to see a map of, then, the eastern half of that section just to look at what our property and the rest of the (inaudible) RSK Just a reminder. We're only going instruct him to bring us a map...we're not making a decision to do this... PD The City's property... RSK So you're going to see a map, that's what we're getting at. PD The City's property coincides with the 120 acres directly east of Shadow Ridge and that 25 acres that you see delineated as the park. BAC No...l just want to look at it because one of the things that's going to happen is that there are folks living in single family out there, and you can't pop in (inaudible) next door to them in the sense that...let's just say that if I lived in 41 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL RSK FEBRUARY 5, 2004 the neighborhood and I had any sense that somebody was going to build Shadow Ridge 2 right next to me, I'd be likely to want to visit with us. See, I'd like that because I wouldn't have a neighbor...I wouldn't have to worry about a neighbor's wild parties when the golf...when the sun went down, there'd be nobody on the golf course. BAC Well, if it's a golf...that's...but golf course (inaudible) RSK However this is done... BAC Right. RSK ...it needs to be done...as an example, you can put nine holes in there to tie in with the Marriott and still do timeshares, but... RAS So it doesn't affect the neighbors BAC Right RSK But remember... BAC (Inaudible) how we do that... RSK But remember, we're only going to instruct Mr. Drell to bring us back a map to consider. We're not making a decision to do this. RAS Okay. RSK And so my proposal would be what I just said. PD And remember, this is a general plan map, this is not approving projects, this is not even approving (inaudible) RSK We understand that. RAS We know all that. PD Okay. So we're deleting the office professional and extending...and, again, the (inaudible) resort hotel into the remainder of the City's property. JF Right. RSK What we own. 42 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 PD Okay. How about the area north of that, north of Gerald Ford up to the interstate. RSK We didn't vote on the square yet. PD Okay. RAS We've got a motion. Is there a second? JF Second. RAS Please vote. JMB Just bring back a map. RAS Yes, bring back a map. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. PD And just to clarify, what do you want...do you want to make the park bigger. It's shown at 25 acres. Or what do you want to do with the park? -- RSK Oh, that's going to be...that's not going to be there. PD So you're eliminating the park as well, so we will sell that... RSK No, the park's going...you're going to move it eventually...I think you're going to move it over there where that school site is. JF Yeah, that's (inaudible) PD Okay, well we'll keep that in abeyance then. Why don't we deal with school site right now then so we can make (inaudible) RAS (Inaudible) PD No, that's more like... JF That's a bigger park. PD That's probably what... JF And it's visual relief on major arterial. It's on a corner so it could be regional... 43 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 RSK Yeah, there could be office professional there next to the industrial and the park (inaudible) RAS We could take that whole area and make it park all the way to Dinah Shore. PD Tell me what you want. RSK Are we going to take another chunk and deal with it? PD Okay, so based on that general direction, we would convert what we're showing as open space public park back to low density residential. JF No, it's our land, isn't it? PD It's our land, but we can still...you want to make that back into the... JF Well, if we do have a hotel or timeshare development out there, to me anyway it makes more sense to have the entry off of Portola than it does Gerald Ford. PD Okay JF And they're going to need kind of an entry statement, and we get a bigger park if we move it to the northeast corner of Gerald Ford and Portola. PD Okay JF So I would just designate it the same resort. PD Resort, okay, that's fine. And then the high school goes to park. Alright, how about the area, again, north of Gerald Ford, Monterey to Portola? RSK Between Portola and Monterey up to the interstate... PD Up to the interstate. RSK ...Gerald Ford. RAS You've got that road coming through and then you've got a large industrial area (inaudible) in there. PD That's part of an existing map of industrial business park. RAS That also could be office professional. 44 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 PD If you look at our...yes, I mean...if you look at our development in our industrial parks, a good portion of them are office professional. RAS I understand that. PD And the industrial business park now encompasses office professional. RAS I understand that, so maybe instead of having office professional, we could call it business park. PD That's perfectly fine. That's what it is. JF And what's the public facility at Dinah Shore and Portola? PD It's an Edison transformer station undeveloped that we're...there's some discussion to try to get it either eliminated or moved, but that's property they own right now for that purpose, so...in fact in the map, in that single family residential map, they're looking at if we get rid of it, and there's some discussion with Kathy to get rid of it, remove it, that... RAS That road, that new road that's coming through that's going through there, it has two high density apartment complexes? PD Correct, that's 35th. That's the road that goes past the south side of WalMart. RAS Now there is a school with a playground attached. PD It is a school with a playground in the back. RAS Questions about that area? RSK Well, my feeling about density out there is it should be anything that we actually put in the General Plan as a zone shouldn't be any more than 10 units per acre. BAC I respect your point of view. It's one that I just couldn't feel more opposite about. RAS Why don't we do this. We're not voting on the General Plan today, so why don't we go ahead with the changes that we've made in that area and then go to another one. (Inaudible) anyone move that. PD Okay, let's... 45 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL BAC PD FEBRUARY 5, 2004 Question. We have a fair number of differences in that area between GPAC and the Planning Commission. We've heard from the representative from Ponderosa Homes about their chunk of it, and there are a few other (inaudible) back on the southwest corner GPAC has CC that runs all the way north and south and high density that runs all the way along the road to the right of it, and the Planning Commission doesn't. What are we to make of those changes? Part of it was our (inaudible) process stimulated some comprehensive planning efforts in cooperation of the various property owners in the area to come up with a plan. And this is the plan they came up with. It's substantially...it substantially (inaudible) with the spirit of the GPAC alternative and that so in looking at it the Planning Commission said if this is what the property owners want, it's substantially consistent, although...you know, part of it is refinement, you know...we were shooting, you know, in the dark at GPAC, we got some more refined specific design out of the property owners, and that's (inaudible) RAS We have a motion. Do we have a second? JF To? RAS (Inaudible) in the way we just discussed it. JF Did we make any changes at all? RAS Yeah. PD That area we didn't make any changes. RAS We moved the school, we moved the park over to the school. (Inaudible) RSK We're in this north section here. JF We're north of Gerald Ford. (Inaudible) PD We already got direction on that. BAC North of Gerald Ford... RAS We made no changes. 46 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 BAC ...and west of Portola. RAS Right, we made no changes. PD Or you can vote on it... RAS Is there a motion? RSK This is only to bring the map (inaudible) PD Yes. BAC (Inaudible) RAS There's a motion. Is there a second? BAC So seconded. RAS Please vote. RSK We have to keep remembering, we're only bringing the map back. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. PD Then we have the...call it the Frank Sinatra/Cook/Gerald Ford/Portola neighborhood. It includes our property plus the...again, the big difference there is again a refinement of detail as a result of a focused planning effort by the property owner. Also taking into account (inaudible) RSK We're looking at this section now, Gerald Ford north to the freeway? PD No...Gerald...Frank Sinatra to Gerald Ford, Portola to Cook. JF University Village. PD The... JMB University park. PD Yeah, the residential portion of... RSK (Inaudible) that little strip up there on the north side of Gerald Ford we're not considering yet. PD The green strip on the... 47 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 RSK Just answer the question. North of Gerald Ford we're not considering. PD No. If you want to consider it as part of this... RAS (Inaudible) we might as well... RSK I'm going to make sure I know what we're dealing with. RAS We said that that was going to be a park. That was where the school was and we said that's where the park's going to go. And so we might as well take it all the way to the freeway because there's nothing really over there... PD You mean all the way to...all the way to... BAC Dinah Shore. PD ...Dinah Shore...or it's called Technology. RAS Yeah, right, Dinah Shore. PD Okay. RAS Now Cook Street, that's pretty well already taken care of. BAC Why don't we just do this little piece north first, then. PD Okay. JF Quick question. Again, if you want to boot this over to circulation you can. But if people are taking the Midvalley Parkway, they're going to be on Dinah Shore, and if they follow Dinah Shore to its logical end, it actually turns back west before you have to then turn left and get back onto Gerald Ford so that you can hit Frank Sinatra and keep going. On that corner that you have marked open space next to public facilities... PD JF PD JF um-hmm Couldn't we have that bend instead of a sharp corner so that natural traffic can just flow in and (inaudible) Yes, there's been...Mark can deal with that...a lot of discussion of how to (inaudible) (Inaudible) circulation if you want, I don't want to get bogged down here, but... 48 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MG FEBRUARY 5, 2004 Real quick if you need the answer is that under the development agreement with Mr. Noble's property, we are working on the specific design there, and it does include a free right. JF Great. RAS You're going to have to excuse me (inaudible) Mayor Pro Tem will take over. BAC Finally. Thank you sir. Okay, so we are looking at the area from Cook Street... RSK Are you on? BAC Yup. Cook Street to Portola north of Gerald Ford, Mr. Kelly, that little chunk after the freeway, so we'll tend to that first. We've thus far taken the park, former school area, north to Dinah Shore. That leaves us, then, with the blue designation along the freeway and the what was in GPAC residential high density and in the Planning Commission mixed use that's further off to the east. PD Correct. BAC And the reason for that, sir? PD The mixed use? BAC The change from high density residential to mixed use. PD Uncertainty as to...again, this is (inaudible) desire from the developer to...whether to the extent it should be commercial or residential, the mixed use kind of provides that opportunity to make a proposal and specifically deal with the issue when we get one. You know, the goal there at the GPAC again was to try to create as much housing in close proximity to the university as possible especially as the...if you look at...if you, again, compare GPAC with this plan, the GPAC plan had no low density at all in this section. RSK Well, I'm not for changing it to high density, so why don't we vote on it and decide whether we're going to bring that map back or not. PD Okay. Mixed use makes it subject to when someone makes a project. BAC Okay. So with the change that's been made regarding the school site...is Council comfortable in having, then, this chunk of the north sphere brought back as a map> 49 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL JF Well, question. And again, we own the 170 acres. BAC We're not there. JF Oh, we're just north of Gerald Ford. BAC Right. FEBRUARY 5, 2004 JF Sorry. Yeah, I think it looks pretty good. If we can make all of that a park, and we've got that green strip on both sides of Gerald Ford, assuming we can get the road that's somewhat (inaudible) RSK I move you bring that one back as it is with the exception of the changing of the school site to a park. BAC Is there a second? RSK That's the Planning Commission map. BAC Yes. Is there a second? (Inaudible) BAC Okay, there's a motion and a second, there being no discussion, please vote. RDK Motion carries 4-0, Mayor Spiegel absent. BAC And while we're doing nice pleasant stuff, why don't we just go right on to the east. Does anyone have any objections or changes they would make in the portion of the north sphere that is to the east of Cook Street. RSK I move the map come back as is north of...east of Cook Street. JF Second. BAC We have a motion and a second to come back with that. Please vote. RDK Motion carries 4-0. RSK Now all we have left is that Gerald Ford south of Frank Sinatra and Portola to Cook. JF Right. RSK Right? 50 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL BAC Yup. JF I've got a question. BAC JF FEBRUARY 5, 2004 I was going to say...is this an area where we want to proceed at this point, or is this something we want to come back to to start a meeting. I'll ask the pleasure of the Council. I'd be in favor of pondering it a little bit. I suspect we may need five people to resolve it, or not...hopefully not, but I could chew on it for another week or two weeks of whatever the... BAC Okay, so you would just as soon wait a week and come back (inaudible) RSK So the map that comes back then will be what we just took care of plus that section will stay like it is. JF And we'll talk about it at our next meeting. RSK We'll talk about it at the next meeting. BAC Is that comfortable with you, Mr. Kelly? RSK So moved. BAC There is a motion for that... JF Second. BAC There's a second to do that. Mr. Drell, I believe you have direction. Now we have some time left. Do you have other topics that you wish to introduce this afternoon? PD We can start...if you want to go to five... RSK What? PD If you want...if you're going to go til five, we can...Mark can start circulation. RSK I think we ought to wait to start circulation when we have time to deal with it. BAC Now I think we have an issue on our next proposed meeting on this in terms of conflicts...is that right, Rachelle? 51 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 RDK That's my understanding, yes, that there...that February 18'h at 2 isn't a good time. RSK What? BAC Would Council please... RDK It's not a good time two weeks from today. BAC ...get our the various and sundry schedule books. PD I won't be here at all, so...I'm on vacation. RSK The 19th (inaudible) RDK I understand the Mayor has a luncheon and there are some other meetings in the afternoon. RSK What kind of meetings? RDK The Mayor has a luncheon right up until 2, and there are some other meetings going on...that's the proposed date of the housing tour as well, all morning. JF Yeah, and we've got Intrawest will be down here and some other meetings. RSK I'm willing to take that day off because I might go to Sacramento, so... PD We could move it to the next week some day other than Thursday. RSK I don't think at the pace we're going that we need to get all excited about it. JF So would we go (inaudible) BAC That all of a sudden moves us a long way (inaudible) RDK Probably need to continue to a date specific, right? PD Yeah, we have to (inaudible) RSK It would take us to the 4th of March. BAC Yeah. Here are a couple of options. One, we could look at doing two hours on the afternoon before our Council meeting on the 26'h 52 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL RSK Do circulation, do just one item, like take circulation? BAC FEBRUARY 5, 2004 Circulation and come back and see on the revised maps at least the areas we've changed whether or not the Council is happy with those revisions and that would get rid of issues potentially all the way to the north sphere with the exception of that one approximate square mile. JF And if we could be given the maps long before we meet... PD Sure. JF ...I think our only question area is going to be this one section. RSK We'd better start at 1 that day, Thursday the 16tn BAC Or we could even... PD That's before your...Thursday before your Council meeting. RSK Council meeting day. And then staff could go light on us. SRG Phil, I just have a question. Do we have a study session for Entrada that day? RDK On the 12th, that's next...a week from today. We're talking about the 26th, right? BAC Otherwise, I was suggesting we go to this next Thursday, but we can't do that...we have Entrada at 2 o'clock, so...but next...I believe we're (inaudible) RSK Thursday, the 26th? (Inaudible) RSK At 1 o'clock? JMB (Inaudible) RDK But we have Closed Session at 3, that's the only... BAC Why don't we meet at 1 o'clock... RSK 1 o'clock 53 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL BAC FEBRUARY 5, 2004 ...on the 26th. That doesn't delay us but one week from where we would have been on our normal schedule to do this. And while we're noting I think probably to make sure of is that we're asking for staff to bring back the map with changes, not things that have been approved, so that anyone who reads the newspaper account should not say that x and y has happened, but x and y will be considered. PD Sure. Nothing gets approved until you finally approve the encompassing resolution on the whole General Plan. JF Yeah, and that also gives folks that own property out there that are affected by these decisions a chance to get back to us with their input as well. BAC Yup. And it may be if all these things happen (inaudible) has some bearing on how people feel on this other piece and where we go on some of those issues. RSK That's true. BAC Are there other issues the members of the Council (inaudible) this afternoon? Are there issues from staff? Is there anyone in the audience who wishes to offer final public...final opportunity for public comments on anything that has been said today or that is not on where we've been today? Hearing none, we will adjourn to, then, 1 o'clock on the 26th. So ordered. RDK 4:34 p.m. The following actions were taken and/or direction was given at this public hearing: 1. Urban Design Element —Office Professional Standards Alona Non -arterial Residential Corridors Councilman Kelly moved to, by Minute Motion, approve the addition of Program 10.B to the Urban Design Element dealing with special Office Professional Standards along non -arterial residential corridors. Motion was seconded by Mayor Pro Tem Crites and carried by 5-0 vote. 2. Land Use The following direction relates to the "City of Palm Desert - City Limits - General Plan 2000 Planning Commission Recommended Alternative" Map dated February 4, 2004, reauestina that said direction be implemented on a 54 MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 DRAFT "City Council Preferred Alternative" map to be presented at the next — General Plan Meeting. + Commercial Desianations Eliminate some of the numerous commercial designations, including changing "Resort Commercial" to "Hotel" + Bicycle/Pedestrian/Golf Cart Path -Washington Street to Monterey Avenue Directed staff to ensure that this element be clearly defined and appropriately reflected in the General Plan to be adopted, including working with the City of Rancho Mirage and the County of Riverside to carry this path through to the proposed train station near the Agua Caliente Casino. + Cook Street Cross-over/under at University Asked staff to, working with the property owner on the west side of Cook Street, identify an appropriate location for a cross -over or -under for pedestrians/bicycles/golf carts to get back and forth to the east and west sides of this high -traffic arterial. + Park Desianations Asked staff to identify what types of amenities will be included with each of the various parks shown on the map. +Section Bounded by Monterey Avenue/Gerald Ford Drive/ Portola Avenue/Frank Sinatra Drive Councilman Kelly moved to, on the draft map, authorize removal of all C-OP designation and extend "Resort -Hotel" into the remainder of the City's property. Motion was seconded by Councilman Ferguson and carried by 5-0 vote. + Area North of Gerald Ford/Monterey Avenue to Portola Avenue Councilman Kelly moved to, on the draft map, leave the designations as shown without changes. Motion was seconded by Mayor Pro Terri Crites and carried by 5-0 vote. MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FEBRUARY 5, 2004 + Cook Street to Portola Avenue. North of Gerald Ford Councilman Kelly moved to, on the draft map, leave the designations as they are, with the exception of eliminating the proposed school site and changing it to "Park" all the way to Dinah Shore. Motion was seconded by Councilmember Benson and carried by 4-0 vote, with Mayor Spiegel ABSENT. + Portion of North Sphere East of Cook Street Councilman Kelly moved to, on the draft map, leave as is. Motion was seconded by Councilman Ferguson and carried by a 4-0 vote, with Mayor Spiegel ABSENT. + Section South of Gerald Ford to Frank Sinatra, bounded by Portola Avenue and Cook Street Councilman Kelly moved to, on the draft map, leave this portion as is and directed that it be discussed at the next meeting. Motion was seconded by Councilman Ferguson and carried by a 4-0 vote, with Mayor Spiegel ABSENT. DIRECTED THAT THE - D R A F T - REVISED LAND USE MAP AND CIRCULATION BE TOPICS OF DISCUSSION AT THE NEXT MEETING. X. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS - B None XI. ADJOURNMENT With Council concurrence, Mayor Pro Tem Crites adjourned the meeting at 4:34 p.m. to Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 1:00 p.m. ATTEST: LLrThLASSEN, CITY CLE CITY OF PALM DESERT, CALIFORNIA z.,‘,,,i--,___if_6_, ROBERT A. SPIEGE . MA O 56