Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006-03-17APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL FRIDAY, MARCH 17, 2006 — 2:30 P.M. ADMINISTRATIVE CONFERENCE ROOM I. CALL TO ORDER Mayor Ferguson convened the meeting at 2:30 p.m. II. ROLL CALL Present: Councilmember Jean M. Benson Councilman Buford A. Crites Mayor Pro Tem Richard S. Kelly Councilman Robert A. Spiegel Mayor Jim Ferguson Also Present: Carlos L. Ortega, City Manager/RDA Executive Director David J. Erwin, City Attorney Homer Croy, ACM for Development Services Justin McCarthy, ACM for Redevelopment Stephen Y. Aryan, Assistant to the City Manager Rachelle D. Klassen, City Clerk Amir Hamidzadeh, Director of Building & Safety Paul S. Gibson, Director of Finance/City Treasurer Mark D. Greenwood, Director of Public Works David Yrigoyen, Director of Redevelopment & Housing Patrick Conlon, Special Projects Administrator Ignacio Otero, Fire Chief, Palm Desert Fire Dept./Riverside Co. Fire Dept./CDF Walt Holloway, Battalion Chief, P.D. Fire Dept./Riverside Co. Fire Dept./CDF Lt. Rod Vigue, Palm Desert Police/Riverside Co. Sheriff's Department III. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS None APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 IV. NEW BUSINESS A. PRESENTATION OF THE PALM DESERT 30/30 ENERGY PARTNERSHIP. The following is a verbatim transcript of this portion of the City Council meeting: Key JF Mayor Jim Ferguson GR Gene Rodriguez, Southern California Edison RAS Councilman Robert A. Spiegel JP John Phillips, Aspen Accord and Energy Coalition PC Patrick Conlon, Special Projects Administrator GR Gene Rodriguez, Southern California Edison Company FS Frank Spasaro, Southern California Gas Company CLO Carlos L. Ortega, City Manager JMB Councilmember Jean M. Benson RSK Mayor Pro Tem Richard S. Kelly BAC Councilman Buford A. Crites JF The first item is Presentation of the Palm Desert 30/30 Energy Partnership, and by way of introduction, we have a lot to go over today. We tried to structure it so that it will be relatively short. I know that you can read as well you can listen, so we've given you lots of reading material. I'd like to take the opportunity to introduce some of the key partners with the City thus far in this program, and the first would be John Phillips over here. He's with the Aspen Accord and the Energy Coalition, who was with Buford, myself, and Carlos in Sweden this past summer, which is where this idea was originally hatched. Next we have Gene Rodriguez from Southern California Edison, and you're with somebody who I haven't met yet. GR Marvin Clark, he's also with Southern California Edison, and he'll be permanently assigned to this project. JF Great. And Frank Spasaro with the Gas Company, Southern California Gas, will be making some brief comments. And then Ted Flannigan is the consultant that we hired initially to put together the genesis of how you get to 30%, and is it doable, and basically 2 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 the feasibility analysis. And then Pat will also be presenting the staff side, and I think Carlos is going to sum up this with his comments...another Gas Company person... RAS And another Edison person. JF ...and an Edison person. (inaudible) JF Patrick Swarthout and Kathy DeRosa. As the Council will recall, about four years ago we were approached by Enco to do municipalization, and sort of at the eleventh hour, we were approached by Edison with the concept that we don't have to assume the responsibility for the utility to achieve the savings we want...we can do it through conservation and energy efficiency. And not a whole lot transpired from that time until this past summer when Edison was at this conference, and Buford and I asked them how we might go about doing this. And we signed a non -binding agreement...Edison did, the Gas Company did, the Energy Coalition did, and Palm Desert did, recognizing that we weren't binding any bodies because we didn't have the ability to, but we were going to pledge to go back to those bodies with the idea of reducing energy in Palm Desert by 30%. We came back to you with the idea last October, you said it was worth exploring, so what you're going to hear today is basically the fruits of that exploration to see where the Council would like to go. And so, I'd like to start by turning it over to John Phillips with the Aspen Accord that really got this whole thing going through all the departments that are here today. JP Thank you, Jim. It's nice to be with you. California, for the last 20 years, has been a leader in the Nation in prescribing and subscribing to efficiency, energy efficiency in people's homes. The Public Utility Commission, California Public Utility Commission, which governs the utilities, took a remarkable turn about four years ago and, through the president of the Public Utility Commission, described a process called "California's Energy Action Plan" wherein energy efficiency was described as the number one priority for California's energy future. That's a remarkable shift. Rather than building power plants, the governance office of the utilities basically said we want you to harvest as much efficiency as you can from your existing systems before you go out and build something...a major, major shift. The Energy Coalition, which is a non-profit organization that's been operative in California since the beginning of the 80's, has always been attempting to build partnerships between utilities and cities. We feel if you (inaudible) pass-throughs that a utility comes through the walls of the city and provides gas and electricity, but rather there needs to be a relationship between the city and the 3 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 utility that explicitly serves the best interest of the people...the customer of the utility and your constituent...same person. Now we have always felt that efficiency is the dominant vehicle through which the utilities can better serve your constituents and your customers. That agreement took place with the formalization of the State Energy Action Plan which put energy efficiency as the number one priority. The Aspen Accord is a group of California regulators, utility leaders, and cities that meets with Swedish utilities, regulators, and cities to exchange ideas on how you make efficiency more viable. It's easy to sell a product if you think of energy as a product. We think energy is a finite resource that should be treated a little more gingerly than beer or other products that are sold in the United States. The realization of that has come through now with the utilities of California, the regulated utilities, and the government's body, Public Utility Commission, and the Governor's office, agreeing with that process. What happened at the Aspen Accord meeting in 2005 is your city stepped forward and took an unprecedented position. They said we're going to reduce energy use throughout the City by 30%. Sitting with us was the President of the Public Utility Commission, the purse string holder, the guy who says through his agency, "What's the rate of return we're going to let a utility gain, and what work are they going to have to do to get it?" Senior management from the utilities were there as well, as were other cities. And the bottom line is your city stuck to its guns. When people said you can't do this, and you can't do that, 30% is too high, go for 20, maybe 18, maybe 22, and your city stood firm. They said we can do this, and so a deal was struck in principle, which was called the Estonia Protocol because we were between Tallinn, Estonia, and Stockholm, Sweden, someplace in the water. What has happened since then is a working committee made up of the utilities and your city and the Coalition have really put...have done a lot of hard work, have done a lot of hard work. Your city needs to be commended for putting the effort forward to really show it's doing diligence in this effort. The utilities have done extraordinary work in defining this process, and the result of that is that the 30% that your city management stood firm on is, in fact, achievable. It is achievable, and it is remarkable, not because you can achieve it, but because nobody had the guts before to stand up and say we're going to do this. And standing shoulder to shoulder with you is Southern California Edison and Southern California Gas Company. I know you've had difficulties at times with your utilities, or with the attitudes you perceived with your utilities. You've got to wipe that clean because what's happening here is these utilities are developing a model. They are going to expend a tremendous amount of money, well beyond what the regulators nominally would let them spend, in order to prove the validity of this 30% reduction for your city, and I will tell you candidly that the success of this process, and it will be a success, will make Palm Desert the model for the state of California in the future of energy efficiency as a viable resource as opposed to building power plants. Now, obviously, the utilities are going to have to build some power 4 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 plants...we're cranking up to 50 million, I understand, within the next 15-18 years. We're not going to do it alone with efficiency, but efficiency is an underplayed, underutilized resource because it's easier to build a power plant than risk reducing customers' bills by putting the efficiency processes in place. And our goal is to get the utilities paid, not for selling more but by giving more value to your constituents, their customers. It's unheard of when you deal with commodities...more is better. A case of beer is good; three cases of beer is better. We're saying a half a case is the best. Now, how does the utility get paid for that? (Inaudible) JP But the point is this. You have placed yourself in an extraordinary position. The utilities are standing side by side with you, which is what partners do, and within this five-year development period, utilities are going to pour some $60 million into the City, and they're going to do it to reduce their revenue (inaudible). They're going to do it, and your constituents, their customers, are going to have lower energy bills. The Public Utility Commission, if you go along with this conceptually at this time, will vote whether they'll let the utilities do this, but I'II tell you this....if you don't go along with it, there's not a snowball's chance in hell that the Commission would ever go for this. The only way it will work is if you stand shoulder to shoulder with the utilities, and so what you're going to hear now is why you need to do this. JF Thanks, John. After our meeting in October, we kind of turned this all into Pat Conlon's lap to, number one, see if we could do it, number two, how we could to it, and number three, how much it would cost all the partners involved to accomplish this. And I think the cost was envisioned to be a one-time expenditure, that $60 million that John was referencing, for a lifetime of efficiency. So, Pat, why don't you discuss what occurred between October and today. PC We have formed a working group, and the working group is basically the folks that we see around the table....Frank Spasaro and Gene Rodriguez and Ted Flannigan, John Phillips over here, and myself...and we sat down to put together this start of a plan to get us to the goal of 30%. Ted Flannigan, with the help of the working group, put together this large document, which outlines very specifically the occupancies, the buildings, the energy -efficient measures that we can take, and the costs, to get to this goal. This document has always been a draft document, and it has never been through the thorough engineering analysis and review by the professionals at Southern California Edison. From this document, we have evolved to this document, which is the Edison component. In this document that you have today, you'll see that we have yet to 5 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 populate the document with the Southern California Gas Company energy -efficiency program, so currently what you have now is a large part of the solution, the 30% solution. Southern California Gas Company will be forthcoming with their energy -efficient programs for this document. What I've done with this document is kind of summarized it down to a two -page summary for you that you can take a look at. The numbers in this summary match the numbers in this document, and this has been a work progress, like I said, for over the last four months. We've had several meetings, several (inaudible), and I just....Ted Flannigan has put his heart and soul into the first draft document. Many, many, many hours have been spent, and so that's where we are today. We have with us Gene Rodriguez, who can talk specifically about the components and the specifics about this document...that comes from Southern California Edison. And I'II be happy to answer any questions. JF Pat, what percentage of our energy profile is Edison versus Gas Company? PC I would probably say it would be 80/20...I'm looking at you guys. ?? In terms of dollars, we're around 27...we're 27, and they're 86. JF Okay, so a large part of our focus has been on Edison because that was the big ticket item. Our gas consumption isn't all that great, but there is opportunity for efficiency, and those will be incorporated into this document, but in the interest of having not gotten back to you with anything formally, we wanted to at least roll out the Edison part of, and the Gas Company part we will fold in. But I also wanted to mention that the working committee, which is that corner of the table, was overseen by a policy committee, which was the Senior Vice President of Edison, both for Customer Service and for Regulatory Affairs, so there are two of them, and then the Senior Vice President of Regulatory Affairs for the Gas Company, John Phillips, myself, Carlos, and Buford. And so they've been reporting back to us, and I think it's safe to say that everything that you're about today has the full support and weight of both of the highest ranks of both utilities. So, with that, let me turn it over to Gene because that's really going to be the focus of our Study Session. GR Thanks very much, Jim, and I want to start off first by thanking you all for having us here today. But, second, by having a slight friendly amendment to Pat's discussion here. We weren't just a working group. The folks that helped pull together the plan that we're talking about here today were much more than that. A group connotes just bringing people together to do something. A working team, which is what I think we were, and a friendly amendment that I offer to that introduction, a working team connotes that each 6 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 of us pull together our strengths, our resources, our abilities to put together a plan that we're not just pleased to present to you today, collectively, but I think we darned proud of as well, as I look around the table. So with that, let me tell you kind of the approach we took to what we envision over this five-year...and I won't call it a program...I want to call it a campaign and, if you will allow me to, I'll explain to you why we want to do that...but a five-year campaign as part of a long-term commitment, a partnership commitment, between the City of Palm Desert, its serving utilities (Southern California Gas Company, Southern California Edison), facilitated by the Aspen Accord and the Energy Coalition...what it is that we can accomplish together in a true partnership. In this partnership, what we've done is taken a look at a real nuts and bolts issue for the City of Palm Desert. You have residents...you have businesses out here who have very high energy bills. That's a given. What we have decided to do, working together, is to figure how we might leverage the talents that reside in each of these institutions, the resources of Southern California Edison, the resources of the Gas Company, including the funding resources we're talking about but also technical resources, the political will of the City of Palm Desert, which has as John Phillips pointed out to start out, which has stepped forward in a way that, quite frankly, no other city in our service territory has done yet, a way that shows a real commitment, not just to receiving the benefits of energy efficiency programs, demand response programs, and self -generation incentive programs, but also stepping up to the plate to help promote them, to help make sure that each and every citizen, each and every business within the community of Palm Desert, takes advantage of it in a way that helps California and helps those residents to enjoy lower costs of energy and lower bills. So by working together, what we did is took a look, as we were talking about with Ted's document earlier, took a look first, a very hard look, at the City of Palm Desert, its makeup, its energy use, what the folks here have as energy profiles, and what can be done about that. From then, what Southern California Edison did, and what the Gas Company is doing as we speak, is take what we call kind of a resource planning look at that energy profile for the City of Palm Desert, its residents, and its businesses. By a resource planning perspective, what I'm talking about, is Southern California Edison has a portfolio of programs and services that we offer our customers. What we are offering to do in this partnership model with the City of Palm Desert is to, as John points out, step beyond that traditional portfolio of products and service approach and, I would say, propose, in a very real demonstration to the California Public Utilities Commission and to the world at large, this notion that the citizens and businesses within Palm Desert can be a partner in not just the acquisition of but the creation of energy savings and demand reduction that will help the state of California. If that is the case, then what I offer you is that Southern California Edison will put the full weight of our company behind not just making that program a success but funding it in a way that, quite frankly, other cities in our service territory won't see 7 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 because you are taking the step of being part and parcel of our resource creation and acquisition effort. We are going to put our services as well to get additional funding, so what we're looking at is over this five-year span, not just spending the $30 million that we already have scheduled inflated for the benefit of the customers here in Palm Desert, but adding another $30 million....actually, I'm rounding down on both those figures...it adds up to about $63 million total...but adding another $30 million to the pool to do even more than can be done in other cities because under the leadership of this City Council, under the local electeds here, under the good work of folks like Pat, quite frankly, who has done a tremendous effort in helping bring us to where we are today. We believe that this city can deliver much more energy efficiency than any other city in our service territory today, and then by example we can get other cities to follow your lead and to do more and more energy efficiency in the state of California, which is already the leading state in the energy efficiency world. So now let's take that down to specifics. Specific #1 ...we're talking (inaudible) to recognize here, so what we're talking about is a business -like proposition for the acquisition of reliable, cost-effective, energy efficiency resources. This is not going to be the kind of thing that will (inaudible) any of us...the City, the utilities, our facilitating partner, or any of yourselves as citizens of the City of Palm Desert...will have a moment's pause about in terms of a gold-plated program or anything of that nature. What this is is a business proposition that makes sense for the residents who participate, for the businesses who participate, for all the rate payers who are paying in to help fund this program that the Public Utilities Commission will be looking at as a model for how they want to deliver energy efficiency in California. So if that's our objective, then what we started to do is look at how we can march through each and every customer group within the four corners of the City of Palm Desert and deal with them. So let's start first, I guess, at one (inaudible) and work our way through. One of the things we looked at, and as you read through this plan, you'll get the better flavor of this, but just let me do the highlights here. One of the things we looked at is, first and foremost, what can we do for the low-income residents of the City of Palm Desert? That represents one of the first of many sweeps, or what we call neighborhood sweeps, campaigns, that are feet on the street campaigns to bring programs to people, to bring programs to businesses, so that we are actually not just facilitating but hand in hand assisting folks in the delivery of energy efficiency. Under this low-income approach, what we will do is leverage our work and other State agencies and community -based organizations to ensure that each and every resident who is income -qualified within the four walls of the City of Palm Desert receives the full services of the low-income program, which includes a free refrigerator, weather stripping, etc., etc., etc. to drive down the energy burden for that customer group. Let's move to the next level, all the residential consumers. What we have done for the residential consumers who are not within that income -qualified, low-income category is create 8 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 packages of goods and services that will be delivered to them in, again, through neighborhood sweeps, through the power of City messaging, through feet on the street, such as Marvin, who was the first of quite a number of people we're hiring to work on this campaign, within the residential market to create events, to create programs, to create program delivery channels right to people's homes and people's places of work, that deliver them packages that address the key heating and cooling needs, electric usage, gas usage. One of the things that I think is very interesting about both the residential and non-residential side is...what we're proposing to do here is not just to use proven technologies but things that you see every day (Energy Star products that you can see at the Lowe's, air conditioner turn -ins like the event we're having in Palm Springs just a week or two away from now), but also we've built into this plan the introduction into Palm desert as a pilot area new technologies that are just emerging into the commercial marketplace. We, as California utilities, and as also part of the larger energy efficiency community, are on the cutting edge of what's coming into the marketplace. What we want to do, since this is a city that is willing to step up and do more energy efficiency than other cities around us...we want to make sure that those new products, new services, are piloted in the City of Palm Desert. For example, fresh on the market is a new refrigerator that uses...a super -efficient refrigerator...but it's now commercially available. We're going to ensure that that is made available with increased incentives for the residents of Palm Desert. Similarly, one of the things that's very interesting in the state of California that we're looking at just past the end of this year is that you've reading the energy trades, and I hope you don't do that often because it's kind of a boring proposition, but if you're keeping up with what is going on in California, California has the most aggressive solar program in the country that's just rolling out, named "The California Solar Initiative." We have proposed that part of this plan to demonstrate an approach within the California Solar Initiative that a tax, what we in the energy industry call a "vampire load program" a problem. "Vampire load" is, in fact, what happens when all of us who have the new TV's and computers and stereos or whatever else we have that has any standby mode, there is a constant draw of power going on all the time. What we are proposing is a small-scale but scalable photovoltaic system installations that drive down the cost of installation, drive down the problems associated with having size inverters, etc., etc., but attack that vampire load program. What does that do? What it does...what no other solar program has done thus far and we think can be very, very, very successful here in the City of Palm Desert...it means that we can do a wide -scale distribution of a program like that, keep the cost low, create impacts that are much greater than you can get with the older approach of trying to take every square inch of roof space and put the TV panels all across it. But what about large-scale TV...should that be part of this? You're darned tooting it should be. One of the things that we talked about, that Pat and the rest of the team talked about, is this is a city that's 9 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 willing to step up and consider...I'm not saying in a binding way at this point...but consider how, within the new construction arena, the City can do, either through codes or through mandates or through just its normal course of dealing with permitting, encourage businesses to do the wise thing and install photovoltaics, things of that nature. How can we make this a workable proposition for the businesses that are looking to move into the Palm Desert area? I'II tell you. As part of this partnership approach, what we want to do is to say that, working with Pat and the team and the folks on the staff of the City here, why don't we look at doing mandates or codes or these sorts of things in which they are contingent upon the availability of technical resources and financial incentives from Southern California Edison, from Southern California Gas. That way, we make it easy for people to comply, the City gets better construction, better building, and, quite frankly, deserve recognition for building out a city that is a more efficient infrastructure that needs to be served by the state of California. Okay, let's move beyond residential for a minute. What I'm going to encourage you to do as you read through this is to do as we did, and when I say "we" I don't mean just Southern California Edison...all of us on the working team. As you picture yourself driving down the street, I want you to look at a traffic signal. I want you to recall that in 2001, the City of Palm Desert was one of the cities that helped lead the way for Southern California Edison's program to ensure that we changed out traffic signals to LED signals all across the state of California. But I also want you to recognize that we didn't get all the lights, we didn't get all the lights. What we want to do is propose working with the City to change out the rest of the LED lights. When you look at the local small businesses that are sitting at every corner, we want you to look at that and then, as you read this, recall that what we're putting together here is a (inaudible) program to march from small business to small business to small business, giving them an offer they can't refuse in terms of tackling the energy use that they have in their businesses in a real way by catching that retail lighting load of small businesses just like this office. In the middle of the day, we have the lights on in the City of Palm Desert. Well, that uses energy. We're not going to tell people to turn the lights off...that's ridiculous, it ain't gonna happen, but what we are going to do, aside from asking them to use energy more wisely, is make sure those lights within the small businesses are retrofitted, at no cost to them, with the most efficient lighting product possible so that it reduces the amount of energy they use. The old example we like to give is moving from incandescent to a high -efficient fluorescent takes down two-thirds of the energy use, two-thirds of the energy use. That's something we can do on a right now basis. Let me finish off by looking at two last areas. We're also looking at specific things that we can do for the kinds of businesses and pump loads, etc. that you have out in Palm Desert that are a little unique to the City of Palm Desert. Palm Desert has golf courses. I know we have lost a lot of golf balls here. I will tell you that golf courses are more than beautiful, lush, 10 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 green places. It's a tremendous amount of pumping load. It takes a lot of work to pump water around. Same thing in the agriculture arena. What we will do is attack that pump load in ways that make those operations more efficient, and I think that provides a perfect example of what we're looking for here. We are not asking to turn Palm Desert into a place with brown golf courses. What we are looking at is maintaining the high quality of life but doing it in a way that makes it more affordable for the City to do that, for the residents and the businesses, by creating an energy infrastructure that uses energy much more wisely, much more efficiently, and therefore, much more cost-effectively for those people who are paying the energy bills. Last, but not least, let me close out this little tour of the things that you're going to be reading with one last thing that I want you guys to pay specific attention to. What's the number one driver of energy use and peak demand here in Palm Desert in the summer? Tough question...air conditioning load...everyone knows that. So, long story short, we already have within our portfolio a host of services and products...high efficiency air conditioners right down to services around ducts, etc., etc., etc. That's not good enough. Palm Desert already leads most cities in our service territory in terms of its participation. In fact, it's a two to one margin over the average amount of air conditioner rebates that we give to our programs. That's not good enough. What we are doing for the City of Palm Desert is packaging together a comprehensive what we're calling HVAC (Heating, Ventilation, Air Conditioning) program, which combines the best of high incentive rates, training for contractors, finding, fixing, and repairing ducts...that's something that can be used in businesses, it can be used tremendously in mobile homes, etc., etc., etc. This is a package, again, tailored for Palm Desert that not only makes it more cost-efficient for customers to participate but also just makes it easier, and it makes it easier in a way that I want to close off by saying that I think I am most proud of in terms of this joint product that we are collectively presenting to you today because what makes it the most easy is that what we're going to do is marry together the communications, the good will, the hard workers of the City with the communications, the good will, the technical expertise of Southern California Edison and Southern California Gas with policy guidance from our friends at the Energy Coalition. And we are going to be visibly present in the streets, in the stores, through the mobile home communities, at the golf courses, at public events, at the Lowe's, etc., etc., etc. for a five-year sustained campaign to do energy efficiency. The thing I am most proud of here in a nutshell is that this is not just another energy efficiency product, and it is not another project. It's not even just a big project. It is a sustained partnership that is a relationship between the City, its serving utilities, and its citizens and businesses that will focus on delivering the most energy efficiency in a way that makes the most sense for the residents, consumers, businesses within Palm Desert. And I absolutely encourage you to ask any questions you have of us. Between this team of...our 11 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 working team here...we're good looking, and we have all the answers, but kidding aside, we are darned proud of the work that we have collectively put into this. This is something that, as John points out, it isn't just aggressive, it's amazing. It isn't just doable, it will be done, and we want to do that with you. JF Thank you, Gene. Why don't we hear from Southern California Gas Company? FS Sure, I'II just take a few minutes. It's always tough to follow Gene. First, he's lost a lot more golf balls than just out here. It's been all over Southern California. I wanted to first say that this has been a pretty exciting project to be involved in, and I have to say, going back to something that John started with, when everybody came back from Europe and laid out the Estonia Protocol and the goal, I have to admit that I was a little bit hesitant about the objective...it is lofty, there is no doubt about it...this is a lofty goal. But working with the group and looking at what was possible, not only do I think the 30% energy savings is possible, I think that as a team...we actually got more aggressive with what you guys all came up with and going after what we did with (inaudible) and felt that we could even do that, so it's quite a group, and the work that we've done at the working group level I think is really going to prove that we can make this thing happen. Gene has laid out, and Pat has laid out the work that we've done already. The Gas Company is in the process of developing the additional pieces. I would say that, at the moment, we're probably looking at a relative contribution to, you know, the monies that were talked about from the electric money spent in Palm Desert versus the gas money spent, so the budgets that Gene's talking about will probably be roughly about the same...similar areas, I think that what's laid out in the document that Edison has put together is an excellent description of what can be accomplished here. I think that there are some definite opportunities for us to be going in lock step in trying to make some of these things happen. There are hybrid technologies that can be applied here, where we can go after the peak with air conditioning. There are some gas things, particularly on the commercial side. We think there are some things we can do on the pumping side, and of course there are all the traditional energy efficiency, the natural gas energy efficiency technologies as well as some of the other emerging technologies that I think there are going to be some excellent opportunities here. I'm hoping to have my additions to the document and the report available next week, so we hopefully should be able to soon be moving from there. And then the last thing I just wanted to say as the person responsible for working on partnerships with cities like yourself, I think what we're working on here is a great model and giving me a lot of ideas about how to move forward, so I'm really looking forward to seeing this be something that's going to help me make my job a lot easier in the future because we're doing some great work here. Thank you. 12 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 JF Just to back up on something that Frank said. We did two things that made a lofty goal, which is the nicest way to put it, but the Chairman of the PUC thought it was not possible, but made it even tougher and that was, number one, we had a 30% out of the peak period, so when you most need energy, that's where we're going to cut the 30%, which is a big challenge. And then the other one came from the PUC, who basically said don't show me a program that a rich city can do, show me a program any city can do, which in one sense is a relief for us because they're not looking for the City to put in a bunch of money, they're looking for the will, but we had to come up with a model that can cut 30% overall, 30% of peak, and model that Compton could do and other cities that aren't blessed with our resources. So it's quite a remarkable plan that you guys have come up with. Carlos, you have some comments before we go to questions? CLO Well, my comment is from the partnership...what is it that we, the City, will be asked to do? We're going to have a chance later on to go through what we will be expected to do. What I'II be bringing to the Council at a later date will be to create an office of energy efficiency, even though we unofficially, as you know, have been reviewing projects and (inaudible) new projects that we recommend for additional efficiency requirements, we have not officially created that office. It will require manpower, it will require office space, and it will require some administrative costs. That will be our end of the bargain, and the reason why I would I recommend it is because it is happening in our city, and we need to coordinate it, we need to coordinate the approach to our residents and our business, and frankly, I would feel more comfortable if the City and City staff are directly in the middle of those contacts. JF Okay. Well, we kept it to 40 minutes, so any questions? RAS When do you want to get started, if the Council approves it? GR If the Council approves it, and let me say, if I may, sneak in one little thing, which is my sneaking way of doing things, but what we've told you is that there is more work to be added in, but what each and every one of us on the working team want to tell you and assure you, is the plans you have before you are ready for approval, and each and every one of us recommends its approval. What we want to do is, with your approval of this activity, the reason I brought Marvin along is heavy lifting and starting. Marvin's full-time attached to this project and will make sure the first things happen. Just down the road in the City of Palm Springs, we're going to have a refrigeration, small room air conditioner turn -in event. We want to make that a Palm Desert activity as well. We are...in the month of April, we have already anticipated the approval from the City of 13 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 Palm Desert, at Southern California Edison we have already started to lay out the groundwork and the plans for both the small biz program sweep, we will start knocking on doors and, as Carlos points out, not just (inaudible) but people who are representing themselves at...hi, I'm from the City, I'm from Edison, we're here together to help make this happen, the low income sweep and a whole series of audit activities in the residential area to begin so that the month of April, the citizens and businesses of Palm Desert know that we're not just open for business, but we're open in a big way, in a big splashy way. RAS Didn't you do something like this through the Chamber of Commerce for small businesses a couple of years ago? GR We absolutely have, and it was a success, and I can tell you that that success convinced me that we could be even more successful doing it again with the full power and the full...let me say the word...credibility and good will of the City government here in Palm Desert being represented side by side with us, with the City and Edison and the Gas Company talking to the folks from the local media here suggesting that this is a story that ought to be covered because it is for the benefit of the citizens and want each and every one of them to participate. So, absolutely, we've done something like that before. What we want to do is hit the ground running, and we're already making plans and have the resources available to do that. RAS Do you have plans for major users like Marriott Desert Springs? GR Yes, absolutely. In fact, we have, and my analogy of driving down the road and looking at everything, you see a lot of resort properties, you see a lot of condominiums, you see a lot of large facilities like the Marriott Desert Springs. We have plans for each and every one of those and specialize and tailor plans as well...let me use that as my example...for example, in a very large project like that, it makes sense, just as a company does when it builds a building and has that construction manager that oversees the whole thing, in those areas, what we will do is bring in people who are energy efficiency construction managers who will kind of oversee all the work that needs to be done there. So, you can't give that kind of expensive, technical expertise to every single project, but in one that's going to deliver that much savings, where we think the potential is huge, we will bring in that technical expertise to assist the people who are in the business of running that hotel and ensuring that their energy efficiency project not just works and stays on schedule but captures each and every bit of energy savings that is available there, so we don't leave things off the table. 14 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 JMB How do you plan on dividing the City as far as the residential component, and who are you going to start with, or how... GR That's a wonderful question, and this is the thing that actually that Pat and I and the rest of the tea has been struggling with. The first and foremost notion is that this is a five-year campaign, so over the course of five years, we will get to everybody. In terms of who to start with, how to make it happen, that's the kind of thing...In fact, Pat, a former Boy Scout, I think...is a genius with maps. As we talk it through, what Pat's able to do is walk to a map like this and say, right here is a thousand -unit mobile home community, so for the first mobile homes, doesn't it make sense that we start here? Right here is the new construction...l'm trying to remember where you were pointing when you did that. Here's the new construction opportunity, that's where we...so, instead of doing it kind of a first -come, first -served basis or some haphazard basis, we're actually using what I consider to be City planning expertise from local people who , quite frankly, are very smart and do a lot of real hard work for you all, but kidding aside, we plan that with the City in a way that makes sense for the City and for its residents. And obviously, one of the things that we did play with is the idea....there's also, if you think about this, it's a five-year campaign...think of it a little bit as a movement, as well. You want to pick something, especially at the beginning, that our press worthy and that will make good examples for other parts of the community to follow, so we'll be using that kind of, if you'll forgive the term, "marketing" type thinking as we decide how and when to deliver each of the services. RSK Well, being organized is a wonderful (inaudible), but what about those folks who are actually in a position where they need to replace an air conditioner or refrigerator now? GR That's an excellent question. This...I want you to think about this in terms of...the program that we're talking about today is...it's more than the tip of the iceberg, but in terms of (inaudible), it's part of a larger picture. For everything else that goes on...we're also bringing...we're talking about a $63 million effort over five years...$30 million is what we're talking about today and that we need your approval for. In addition to that, we also have an existing portfolio of programs for Southern California Edison...some $300 million worth of programs, of which some $30 million of it is already in the streets and available today. We will use this as a delivery channel for making sure that all those services are available, so no one will have to wait one minute, one day. If an air conditioner goes out, we're going to make sure that thing gets replaced with an efficient air conditioner and make sure there are incentives available for it. But in terms of...if you think of it kind of a march to sea mentality for a campaign (end of tape) in a way that helps sustain the energy efficiency message in the community and 15 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 helps to build the energy efficiency ethic. What we really want to do is akin to the success that you all have had in other areas in convincing people that the norm for Palm Desert, which should be that everyone recycles. In helping people to learn...I grew up in Arizona, so I know how difficult this is, but helping people to figure out that, you know what, wise water use is as important to you and your community as wise energy use is. Those things are the norm here in Palm Desert. What we want to do now is make energy conservation, energy efficiency, and wise energy use the norm so that people don't have to learn about stuff...they know it's here....so that people don't have to be convinced to do something....they'Il do it anyway. RSK I have another question, but I'm almost afraid to ask it...you give me a lot more than ask for. GR Sorry. I am excited about the project, though, and it shows.... RSK My experience is that roofs are an extremely, extremely large part of cooling and heating, and I hear all the time all the different things, but I never hear anything about what we're going to do about roofs. GR One of the measures that we're making available...there's actually a host of measures available...one of the things that we want to highlight in the Palm Desert area is that there are what we call Low HEE or high efficiency, actually, kind of an odd way to call it, but high efficiency roof tile and roofing materials. That is part and parcel of what will be happening here in Palm Desert. Now does that mean we're going to go through a campaign where we rip off every roof or paint every roof white or whatever? No, that's not the case and, in fact, some of the stuff that we'll be doing is more focused, for example, in terms of bang for the buck, on air conditioning, etc., as opposed to roofing materials and things like that (inaudible) RSK Well, more bang for your buck with air conditioning and paint the roof white or put the foam on it? GR Your question is absolutely the perfect question. RSK You're not going to get an argument there. GR No, it's absolutely a perfect question. Actually, in new construction modeling, it actually works out better to do, you know, building envelope type stuff because you build that into the...actually the cost of crating the structure. In terms of a retrofit, in terms of the 16 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 amount of energy savings you get, especially in Palm Desert in the summer time, etc., etc. things like air conditioning are actually cost-effective, which is to say that even...and I'm using cost-effective as a term of art here, so even for the people that aren't participating in the program, the system benefits that accrue to all rate payers are justified in terms of the amount of benefit they receive versus the amount of costs. For an individual homeowner building, you know, doing a retrofit, roofing, etc., etc. those are all sorts of things that make sense. They won't be left off the table. There are incentives for roofing materials that are already available; they just won't be a part of this special campaign that goes on on top of the regular program. ?? Plus we're looking at putting in some photovoltaic on some of those roofs, so... GR Yes, absolutely. JF Bob, did you have a question? RAS Yes, a very quick one. Are you going to be identifying specifically retailers where a person can get a rebate? GR Yes, absolutely. In fact, that's...may I suggest...this is one of the things that's part of the power of the partnership for us is that under the CPUC's rules and guidelines, we're not allowed to specifically name...oh, I'll just make up a name, like Lowe's or Home Depot...where they are participating in programs and they have high efficiency equipment on sale...that we've actually helped them reduce the cost on. The City of Palm Desert doesn't have that restriction on it, so while we may tell consumers in Edison messaging that, you know, go to your friendly big box retailer, we can't say Lowe's, we can't say Palm Desert, but on a joint marketing effort with the City of Palm Desert, if you guys are putting in that part of the message, we can do that. It makes no sense to me... RAS We can't do that, either. We've got too many retailers in our city. GR But you know what? You know what does occur to me...and we will work this through with the working, well, with you all...it seems to me that the City of Palm Desert does have a vested interest in, if this is a City program, listing those cities who are Palm Desert businesses who are participating in the City program, and that seems to be a fair and reasonable thing to report, and if it helps the consumers get into their doors and do business with them, that's wonderful, and if it helps more retailers sign up, even more wonderful. 17 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 RAS Well, that would be the way to do it...(inaudible) everybody, and then the ones that participate (inaudible) GR I like that. JF Buford BAC Let me respond to Richard's question as well. In an existing home, one of the issues with A/C is that, especially pre-1984, there are a lot of units that folks still work that are absolutely horrible in terms of energy use. Getting those out and putting the new stuff in... RSK I'm well aware of that. BAC I'm saying is more, probably, the biggest single thing you can do for energy. In addition, especially for pre-'84, there's going to be a focus on looking at dual -pane windows and issues like insulation. There are a lot of houses that don't have any attic insulation between whatever roof they have and so on and so forth, and so you look at a home that's four years old, those measures probably don't gain very much at all, but if you go back to a lot of older homes, there are a lot of things (inaudible) RSK I have the experience of living in a house where I had a red rock roof, and I took it off when 1 bought it. I lived in it but not for very long...I took it off and put a white foam roof on it, so I know the difference, and that's one...a lot bigger difference than putting in a new air conditioner. BAC I have both a new air conditioner and a white roof... RSK It makes a tremendous difference. My point is don't tell me it's not a big difference. GR Let me backtrack a little bit because your story is the perfect anecdote, and I want to build on what Buford was saying there, which is...and you're absolutely right, that's where it becomes application -specific. When we do modeling inside, what are we going to do for everybody in the City of Palm Desert. A newer construction, etc. you don't see a big difference. The application you're talking about, it makes absolute sense to get that red rock roof off the building, and you should get some money back from whoever sold you that for starters. But kidding aside, in that application... RSK I didn't hear what you said. 18 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 GR Oh, I said you should get some money back from whoever sold you that red rock roof because I grew up in the desert myself, and I know that's not a good idea, but kidding aside, in that sort of application, the good thing about the flexibility we're building in this program, it makes sense to do something with that roof, and we will do something with that roof in this program. It's just what I was kind of getting about and talking about was as we look at the plan for a sweep through the City of Palm Desert, it doesn't make sense for every home to do that, and so what we're trying to do is, as Buford points out, get the most bang (energy savings) for the buck so that the things we're doing for the residents and businesses, it makes sense for them because they see the difference in their bills, they feel the difference in the comfort of their homes and businesses, and on the system for the state of California, we recognize that that peak demand reduction line dips a bit in the City of Palm Desert. JF Buford BAC One other just quick one. One thing that makes great sense for the utilities in terms of not particularly Palm Desert but a desert community is when they're looking at, whether it's gas or the electric company having to provide for summer load, which means the most expensive power and peak power and everything, the place in California that uses the highest summer load is right here. So if you want to look at a place to shave off the most expensive power that they either have to buy or can't find or have to build, we're it. RSK How about subsidizing rent for a place up north for each one of us? BAC As a matter of fact, one of the problems we have is that a lot of people who leave in the summer leave their A/C on the same darned temperature as if they were here. RAS They live in BigHorn...anyway, the question is, we have a partially fairly mature population in Palm Desert, and some of these people, although they are not low income are moderate income and might not want to invest this money. Is there any way that the money can be added to their tax bill? When they put in the underground for utilities, they had the ability to do that. JF Let me see if I can answer that one because we went back and forth with the utilities, and our first thought was to have them pay for their equipment through their utility bill, and the consumer lending laws of California prohibit utilities from doing that, and so then we looked at what we could, and I think Pat's come up with a list of...it seemed like a hundred...banks that will make loans. 19 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 PC We have a lot of lending institutions that specialize in financing energy conservation (inaudible) and our goal would be to put together a package to basically hand hold the customer in financing...not financing it through the City of Palm Desert, still using (inaudible) financing out there. There's a lot out there that we can do. RSK I was alive when the Gas Company could do that. They always had a nice store...you go in and buy your refrigerator and your stoves and everything and put it on your bill (Inaudible) JP This discussion is brooking on the very issue of why this city and its gutsiness, its stepping forward, is so relevant. There are a lot of arcane rules and regulations that have been formed over the last seems like eons by the regulators of California that have no sense at all. It's like horseless buggies in the old days. And one of the things that I am absolutely convinced of is as this model, because remember we're building a model here, is developed and we find further issues like the roof issue, like the financing issue, we will take those issues before the Public Utilities Commission and say to them by God, if energy efficiency is the number one priority of this state, why the hell can't these things be done in a way that is good for the customer, good for the utility, and good for the City. Now there are some people who write laws who just arbitrarily say well that's the law, that's the way wrote it, and our mission here is to change that so that the utilities are less restricted in providing this efficiency to your constituents, their customers. And the benefits of maybe replacing a whole roof, if it reduces the energy use appropriately, can be looked at. This is about changing a state of art in the state of California. It is highly restrictive, which is what the Public Utilities Commission operates under, and we have an opening that has never...and I've been 40 years in this business...that has never existed, and if we don't go through that open window at this time and really, really take advantage of this model, because we've got the highest officers of the state of California in utility looking at this and looking very positively at this...President Peevey of the Public Utilities Commission left the Aspen Accord meeting last week where your people were, your Mayor was, presenting with (inaudible) let me tell you, it wasn't the sun he was there for, either. I mean, the President of the Commission is thrilled that he might see this come before him, and you don't get an opportunity like that very often, and so the idea here is to change the way the regulators regulate the utilities so that more service can be provided to the people of this city, and if it works here, and it will, and I'll tell you you'll exceed the 30%, you will have done something no city has ever done before, and the utilities will do something no utility has ever done before. And I will tell you that the regulators will not stand in the way of that. They will not stand in the way of it. 20 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 JF Well, the one senior executive of Edison, I think it may surprise you, said let's just change the law. Now we're overseen by the PUC, there's Consumer Protection there, it would be easy to do it on the ability to show the savings, show the payment, show them the balance, so we're going to look at that, but to answer an earlier question that you had, Bob, we are hoping to, if the Council..we would like to get this before the Council at a meeting, and if the Council does approve it, we need to go back to San Francisco before the Public Utilities Commission. I think in total, we're not pinning you to a number. We're looking about $80 to $81 million combined. RAS Over what period of time? JF Five years. And get the blessing from the Commission to allow them to spend the money, and that way, outside of their normal programs for every other city, and then as Gene indicated, hit the streets in April so that people can...it'll be probably a four- to six -week marketing effort to roll it out, and it will be rolled out to everybody, so if you see it and like it in our newsletter, you can pick up the phone and get your air conditioner, and now you won't have to wait. But the goal is to get our first full year of savings by taking advantage of the summer cycle. RAS Can we use Redevelopment dollars? CLO The plan is that with regard to the low and moderate income housing, we will. That's one of our commitments, to maybe use some Redevelopment money (inaudible) we'll just add this component. GR And we have existing funding that we'll be using to roll it out. As Jim points out, upon your approval we're ready to hit the ground running, and we're collectively here to ask for that approval as promptly as we can get it. JF Okay, any other questions? Thank you very much for coming. Why don't we take just a two -minute break? We've got other business that we need to tend to, and I don't want to hold (inaudible) The information was received and filed. Councilman Spiegel moved to add a Closed Session to this meeting to discuss the items listed below. Motion was seconded by Kelly and carried by a 4-0-1 vote, with Councilman Crites ABSENT. 21 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL Request for Closed Session: MARCH 17, 2006 Conference with Real Property Negotiator pursuant to Government Code Section 54956.8: 1) Property: 170-acre site, Frank Sinatra Drive/Portola Avenue Negotiating Parties: Agency: Carlos L. Ortega/City of Palm Desert/ Palm Desert Redevelopment Agency Property Owner: Palm Desert Redevelopment Agency Under Negotiation: x Price x Terms of Payment 2) Property: SEC Fred Waring Drive/San Pablo Avenue Negotiating Parties: Agency: Carlos L. Ortega/City of Palm Desert/ Palm Desert Redevelopment Agency Property Owner: Palm Desert Redevelopment Agency Under Negotiation: x Price x Terms of Payment Conference with Legal Counsel regarding significant exposure to litigation pursuant to Government Code Section 54956.9(b): Number of potential cases: 1 22 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 B. CONSIDERATION OF TWO PROPOSALS RELATIVE TO SITE SELECTION FOR A NEW MUNICIPAL FIRE STATION. The following is a verbatim transcript of this portion of the City Council meeting: Key JF Mayor Jim Ferguson CLO Carlos L. Ortega, City Manager RAS Councilman Robert A. Spiegel RSK Mayor Pro Tem Richard S. Kelly JMB Councilmember Jean M. Benson SA Stephen Y. Aryan, Assistant to the City Manager 10 Ignacio Otero, Fire Chief, Palm Desert Fire Dept/Riverside Co. Fire Dept/CDF BAC Councilman Buford A. Crites PSG Paul S. Gibson, Director of Finance/City Treasurer DJE David J. Erwin, City Attorney MG Mark Greenwood, Director of Public Works RDK Rachelle D. Klassen, City Clerk JF Next item is Consideration of Two Proposals Relative to Site Selection for a New Municipal Fire Station. CLO Mr. Mayor, we do have a presentation. We can make it very short, or we can make it long. Steve has been doing a lot of research. The Fire Department is here. We need to do it at this time because we need to complete our plan so that we can raise sufficient funds to build a station in our northern area. So staff is here to answer questions. Steve has given you a report...do you understand sufficiently, so do you just want to ask questions, or do you want a five-minute presentation? It's up to you. RAS I think I understand it. RSK I think I understand it. CLO Okay, then if you understand it... RSK Jean? 23 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL JMB Yeah, I understand it. I want to keep the one on (inaudible) RSK I read all the stuff you've given to us. MARCH 17, 2006 CLO Well, essentially what we need Council to do is to pick a site so that we can give that to the consultant so that he can analyze the cost of building a station there so that we can amend, if we need to, our key ordinance so that we can collect sufficient revenues, along with existing revenues, so we can fund the fire station. Did I say that right, Steve? SA Yes, sir. RSK Are you going to try to do this without...we've got the Mayor back now. We don't have the Council all here, but... CLO Everybody says they read the report, and they're ready to act. JF Okay. RAS Is the intention...1'II ask the question...is the intention to close any of the existing fire stations in Palm Desert? SA Under Proposal A, we would relocate Station 71 to what's being (inaudible) 170-acre site on the northeast corner of Portola and Frank Sinatra. RAS Adjacent to the Portola site and Country Club is vacant land. I know it's going to be developed, hopefully, eventually, but it's been vacant for a long time. RSK Where? RAS The fire station that we have at Portola and Country Club. JMB That's Portofino, there's nothing vacant... RAS The back of the station...Portofino owns it, but they're not developing it right now. There's plenty of land that we could go to Portofino and see if we couldn't work out a deal and expand the size of that station. Would that be beneficial to the Fire Department? 24 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 10 It would be beneficial. The problem that we're having with that station...that is our biggest fire station, and as things are growing to the north, our response times, as we indicated in our report, for that particular station, we're having a hard time meeting the five-minute response time. RAS Well, what I'm suggesting is that that station remain, be enlarged, and then we add another station. 10 Yes, that would certainly... RAS It would take additional staff and cost us more...the developers would pay for the new station, but it would cost us more. JMB Well, a lot of housing has gone in that area since we put that one there, this one on Portola. SA Mr. Spiegel, 1 think what the Fire Department's proposing to be is similar to the (inaudible) we're saying let's keep all three stations as they are now and, with this proposal, open a new one at the Cal State University site. RAS Okay. SA And that would meet demands for calls in this area and any future demands in the northern district of the City (inaudible). RAS What about below your little red dot? Over towards Washington. SA We looked at that, too, but basically these areas represent a one and a half mile response radius, as was noted, and that equates to roughly about a three -minute response time to wheel start at the station to wheel stop at the incident, and we asked ourselves, what are those areas right here, the salmon colored areas, would that fall into? And that falls into roughly about a two-mile radius. I have a map here that shows that under Proposals A and B, that shows here...this is if you go to a two-mile radius of each of those stations in Proposal, and what you're talking about, which is Proposal B, you can see that the entire area is covered. And we asked ourselves, what does that do to response times? And there is a formula, as the report indicates (inaudible) and in talking with the Fire Department, we're looking at roughly about, on average, a maximum of about 45 seconds, 50 seconds, of additional travel time. 25 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 RAS 95% of the calls are paramedic, they're not for fire. Dick Kelly showed me that today, so that's what we're talking about is people need paramedics primarily. RSK Right. Basically, my problem with your math is that you're showing County stations and counting on mutual aid to cover areas of Palm Desert, but those stations do not have paramedics, and the big business of the Fire Department...I may step on some firemen's toes...but the big business today is paramedics. That's what the citizens really like is the paramedic service and, as Bob just said, here's a report that we just got this month...actually, 1 have January...I have last year's for paramedics...but here's the one for January for fire structure, and you have six fire structures, and you have an average here of 500 to 600 paramedic calls. So the big business is paramedic calls, and that's what 1 think the citizens love about...that's why they voted for the Fire Tax that we have, because they were going to get paramedic service. That's what they're looking for. And most of our fire structures...by the time we get the call, people are out of there, and they know it's burning, that's why they call the Fire Department, and so at least they're safe then. And so you're talking about structures that you're going to protect or save. But with paramedics, you know, that person...the response time is critical, and it's life and death. So for me, I would like very much to see us have another fire station out in the east part of our city, where there is no coverage. JMB Wouldn't Proposal B...isn't that within our city? SA Correct. What we're thinking, Councilman Kelly, what you're referring to are the stations represented outside the City's boundaries, and the reason staff included those stations are, as you noted, Riverside County, they operate under regional fire protection program, and that allows for cost jurisdictional support from any of the stations, regardless of city boundaries. And I'm going to have to defer to... RSK But they don't have a paramedic truck. SA I'm going to defer to our Division Chief to see...do any of these have any paramedic units? 10 Yes, all the fire trucks, even the County trucks, all have paramedics. We don't have ambulances at the stations. Every fire truck in the County area has a paramedic on the fire truck. RSK No paramedic trucks? 26 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL 10 No ambulances, that's correct. MARCH 17, 2006 RSK So you're pushing...you want fire...I don't know what you're pushing, but to me, it's all about paramedics. BAC The proposal that's up there, if you look at the Station 71 circle, and then you look at the new circle, the intersection of those two circles is the largest overlap of any circles anywhere on that map, and what that says to me is that that has the largest area of over coverage of any...I know...because they're circles and not squares, they're always going to either not overlap or they're going to have to overlap if you get coverage. It seems to me that where you have the most of an issue, as Bob mentions, is in that red area farther east. RSK That's what I'm promoting. 10 One of the problems that we had is finding property down there, and Steve and I and Chief Holloway all went down there, and we could not even find any available property because we would love to have the station moved down southeast a little bit. That would be the best place for a station location. Unfortunately, there was no property available. The location that is shown on the map is about as far down as we could go. RSK We shouldn't let that drive us. BAC And you need two acres? 10 Yes (Inaudible) JF Which east/west street is Country Club? BAC What I'm saying...we're down to two acres. JF Where? And can you go over by where Freedom Park is, where there is some land? (Inaudible) JF No, not at the park, adjacent to the park. 27 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 RSK Well, it's not unheard of to buy a couple of houses or some beat -up apartment houses that would be good to get rid of anyway, and build a fire station. I mean, you can start looking for vacant properties, that's not the only option. BAC And especially when we're not looking for a giant amount of time...or land, I mean, excuse me, we're looking for a compact site. That just concerns me. I understand why, but there is a huge... JF Chunk of people that live in them... BAC Right, and there is a huge overlap between the existing and the proposed one that sort of double serves the whole area, a lot of which, by the way, is covered by a golf course, and so (inaudible) RSK A lot of residential, though. That's a lot of heavy residential, a lot of apartments there, lots of apartments. SA When staff looked at this area for a possible location, one thing we liked was the access along Eldorado (inaudible). The real problem, I believe, the Fire Department (inaudible) is not getting (inaudible) these areas almost but really having access to the gated communities (inaudible) difficulty traversing those as well as behind the gates. RSK Steve, when we just did a project for that RV park, where we turned it into high -density residential, that would be a good time for staff to tell us, hey we need a fire station out there, we should commission this for two acres out of that on the east side of that for a fire station. JMB From Emerald Park? RSK Yes. BAC They're already out the door and gone. RSK I know, but this is so (inaudible) when there's no property, and we just did it. Why didn't somebody say hey, we need a fire station out there. JF I'll bet you if you gave them a pass on the apartments, they'd build a fire station out there. 28 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 RSK I bet they'd give it to us in a minute. JF I betcha they would, too. RSK (inaudible) do that, negotiate that right now on the east end. BAC The problem with that is that then you give up something else that at least one person thinks that we need in the community. JF You don't need a (inaudible) apartment complex. RSK Which is what? BAC Apartments. RSK Well, they could put them on the other end. BAC Oh, on the other end? RSK We could just move it to the other end. (Inaudible) RSK It's a tradeoff, so you would still have the same number of units. BAC Carlos, your issue is not as much where we put it, although that's important, your issue is to put it somewhere so you can start getting the fees for it. CLO Yes, because we're going to have a consultant that's going to do the same analysis here, look at the (inaudible) benefit, and say you can charge these people, and we'll bring an ordinance, we'll do that. JF Question. Does the nexus study require that people who participate be within the circle of the fire station? CLO That's a Paul question. PSG Well, actually, I'll defer to Dave Erwin. 29 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL (Inaudible) MARCH 17, 2006 JF I mean, if you put the circle over all the new construction, because that's where we're going to get the money, I can at least follow the logic of that. But if you have to pay whether or not you're in the circle, then the circle should go where it needs to go. PSG As part of the nexus, one of the things we do look at is how many homes are existing now. You can't charge those people, so they exclude that as part of the...here's $8 million, 50% of it is for existing homes, so 50% of the fee can't be collected. JF No, but let's say we do what Buford and Dick are talking about, and the circle moves to the right, let's say a mile, and a project a mile to the left of the circle gets built, do they contribute fees to that fire station? PSG Probably not. DJE No. JF Then now we know why your circle is over all the undeveloped part of the City. JMB But under Proposal B, that fire station is pretty close to Emerald Park anyway because it's at the east of Berger Road between Cook and Gerald Ford...that's that same vicinity. RSK Well, the ideal place would be at Hovley and Oasis. CLO On the other hand, we're looking from developers for about $3.5 million? PSG The quick and dirty answer I got, which is...that's what it was (inaudible) $2 million... CLO And so the question is...do we give up a big part of $2 million to get a better location? JF Well, are you trying to save money or save lives? CLO Well, that's a tradeoff...I mean, do we say, okay, we're going to miss out on a million or two in order to get a better location. The answer is yes, we're trying to cover as much land that can pay the fee. JF I'm just giving you a hard time, Carlos. Buford? 30 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 BAC Well...and if you want...when you did the expanded circles, that added what amount of response time? SA About 45 seconds. BAC So 45 seconds makes our discussion moot. RAS It seems to, doesn't it? SA That's the maximum. BAC Hmm? SA A maximum of 45 seconds. BAC A maximum of 45 seconds makes our discussion moot. RSK The reason I don't agree with that is because I don't think that those two County stations are going to give us the same response for paramedics as one of our stations would. I still....my druthers is to have a paramedics truck out there in the east end of our city, where we have a full pile of residential. So that's, you know, I just...my conscience wouldn't be clear if 1 vote for something that didn't put it out there in the east area that's not covered. JF Paul? PSG In the County areas, they can contract for services. They actually have roving ambulances in different parts of the County area to serve specific areas. As an alternative to having a station, you could have an ambulance in an area. RAS And what happens when a resident of Palm Desert calls that station, and they need a paramedic, and they want an ambulance...do they have to pay for that? 10 When a resident from Palm Desert requires one of (inaudible) companies? RAS Yes....what he's saying is the stations that in the County, they have roving ambulance service. (Inaudible) 31 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 10 And they serve the unincorporated areas. RAS Yeah, but would a resident of Palm Desert have to pay for that service? 10 If AMR comes into... RSK He's suggesting we could have a roving ambulance out there, but 1 don't think we want to put a roving ambulance out there. BAC (inaudible) under this scenario, the areas that are, in essence, along to the west of Washington Street would most likely be responded to by County equipment, not Cove Commission, and as such, they would not carry with them the paramedic service that citizens pay for in the City, including the ambulance coverage. 10 No, that's not correct. Residents who live...for example, Palm Desert Country Club, and we have the station out of La Quinta, 93...in some areas, they're first in to the City of Palm Desert. That's just the fire engine. We still send a Cove ambulance to that location, so they are transported by... RSK Some of them. Now, you know that that station up there off of Hovley, in the County, just off of Washington, is responding over there in the Palm Desert Country Club. 10 They do, that's what I said. The engine will respond, but we also will send a Cove Community ambulance, so it's going to be the Indian Wells one...that's the closest one (inaudible). RSK So they are going to send an ambulance from the Cove Communities, even though the County is responding... 10 That's correct. RSK ...response time is a lot longer. 10 That's correct. BAC The ambulance will be longer, the engine won't. The initial response for help won't be longer, but the transportation will be longer, yes. 32 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL 10 That's correct. PSG Because the engine will have a paramedic. MARCH 17, 2006 10 We will send the...the closest available unit will respond, and that unit will have a paramedic, and so...normally, it's going to be within three minutes, five minutes or less, and then we will wait for a Cove Commission ambulance to arrive, whether it's going to be the one from 71 or the one from Indian Wells. RAS Will the engine have all of the equipment necessary to help someone? 10 Yes. We have...the paramedics, they have everything that a paramedic has...they have medication, they have a defibrillator, they have everything that a paramedic needs to function. We carry those in every engine. RAS Do the one with the big circles up there, again. I move Proposal B. JMB I'II second it. JF Any further discussion? Buford? BAC I'm still thinking about it, to be honest with you. JF Richard? CLO On Frank Sinatra, that's on Agency -owned property, Steve? SA Right JF Frank Sinatra? CLO Between Frank Sinatra and Cook Street on...Frank Sinatra between Cook Street and Gerald Ford... ?? Just east of Berger Road or where Berger Road will be. JF On the Cal State campus? RAS Try close to UCR. 33 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 CLO Agency -owned property. JF Alright, there's been a motion and a second. RSK What was the motion? JF Alternative...or Proposal B. RSK The what? JF Putting it on the Cal State site. RAS There, right there, that one there. RSK To put it on the...to the east end of the Cal State site? RAS Yes...Frank Sinatra and... RSK When I vote no, it's not because I don't think that's a proper location, it's because I don't think it's far enough east. RAS Okay JF And when I vote no... RSK I'm not going to be comfortable unless...my vote is for a station nearer that area that's red...we can just making the circles bigger and bigger so it covers what we'd like to cover as far as I'm concerned. RAS We need just one station. JF Yeah, but under our MOU with Cal State, we told them we were not going to put any permanent improvements on that land and that temporary uses would be contemplated...anyway, that's just one vote...all those in favor, say "aye". BAC We've got discussion yet. Carlos, would you respond to the Mayor's comment? 34 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 CLO The agreement says that we would agree on any temporary uses. It's an agreement. We would need their concurrence. Even though the land hasn't been transferred, we would need their concurrence to put a station there. SA Carlos, staff also... RSK You have a circle that just shows that one so we can just see how far it goes so...see if we can...somebody will be sure and pay for it, we can move the circle up (inaudible) pay for the whole thing, if that's all you care about. I said you guys could...I'm not going to. SA Staff did discuss this proposal with Mr. Jandt at the University, and he was amicable towards further discussion, and we even had some discussion with his architect that that was the best location. He felt being right on Berger Road would be best for them as well. Without committing to anything, he was amicable towards further discussion. BAC We have been real, real testy with them about running off and using that land for things they originally thought were such wonderful ideas. RSK We have a principle, and it's good to stick with that principle...then they can't come in some time and want something and then, well (inaudible) little more here, little more there, there won't be a University site left. RAS How much land are we talking about? 10 Two acres. RAS Two acres? 10 Yes, sir. RAS And there's 200 acres in that place? CLO There are 45, and I think we've given away (inaudible)...20 of 45, so we needed 65 acres (inaudible) RSK This nexus study, they don't care how big you make the circle, huh? Put it where you want it and then make the circle big. 35 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 CLO If the Council's policy is that it's going to serve a two-mile radius, that's what we (inaudible) JF Want to discuss it more? BAC No, you can go ahead and vote (inaudible) JF Okay, but I'm open to any further discussion. RSK Why are you abstaining? BAC I don't have a good answer yet in terms of what I think is the best policy. RSK I don't think that's right to take a vote when you've got somebody who's not... RAS It's not going to go anywhere anyway because it'll be 2-2 with an abstention. JF Right. (Inaudible) BAC If you don't use the Cal State site, there is no other land available out there in that same corridor...even further to the east along that street. CLO (inaudible) projects that you approved take you all the way to the railroad tracks. RAS Yes. CLO Remember, there's a... RAS Isn't that apartment complex and houses, condominiums... CLO Takes you all the way to Palm Valley. BAC Right about where the street runs into the railroad tracks and makes a right right there? CLO Yes, that becomes Oasis Club Drive? BAC Uh huh...right straight ahead at that corner...what is there? 36 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL RSK It's a big corner there that's... BAC Empty RSK ...empty...what is that? MG It's an RV storage facility. RSK What is it? ?? RV storage (Inaudible) RSK There's another big (inaudible) next to the railroad tracks. MARCH 17, 2006 JF Mark, do you have a copy of that aerial of the City? Remember, you had one printed up for me. MG I can get it on the wall. JF Would you? RSK There's another big piece of (inaudible) on the east side of Oasis. JF That's why I want to get the aerial map up so we can see what (inaudible) RSK Seems like in my mind I see one there. (Inaudible) RSK The price of land and what land is worth and you think about those old, beat up apartments on Hovley, it probably wouldn't be any more expensive than bare land. RAS You're talking about near Washington? RSK I'm talking about near 10, which is where we've had that big deal with that corner. There are some apartments along there. 37 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL (Inaudible) RSK Actually, Warner Trail. MARCH 17, 2006 JF I'm with you. Remember where we did the double stop signs by Kansas? Seems to me there's some vacant land there. RSK That's an ideal...that's pretty much the wire center, what I call the wire center...that's the way we used to figure out where to put the switching centers...wherever it took the least amount of wire to serve the people, which is the same thing as doing those circles. RAS Well, let me ask the City Manager something...we're not coming to any... BAC Well, we're about to, we're going to get that map and look at it. RAS Well, I don't know that. BAC Oh, well that's... RAS My suggestion is that maybe staff go back, take another look at all that we've talked about today, see what's available, and bring it back to us next Thursday at a regular Council meeting. (Inaudible) ?? That is one consideration that we looked at is (inaudible) but we didn't move in that direction because we thought that vacant land would be a first approach and best approach. We can go back and find out what a market (inaudible) RAS And find out how much it's going to cost us. BAC I guess my other question, then, is betwixt today and next Thursday, do we have some giant tickets or (inaudible) world that will disappear from our collection base? Well, that's the honest answer...if we have a million dollars that will butterfly away between now and next Thursday, then we'd best think about that as part of (inaudible) and that gives us time to do all this stuff. 38 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 JMB Well, Buford, for somebody who doesn't believe in eminent domain to take somebody's house and put a fire station for City use... RSK No, no...make offers to them. JMB I know. RSK I'm not saying do eminent domain. BAC I'm not. JMB If you're going to take somebody's house... BAC I didn't say we ought to do that, Jean. JMB Oh BAC No, I didn't say that. I'm still on the vacant land (inaudible) RSK Well, people with land with buildings on it for sale voluntarily do (inaudible) JF Now I'm looking for Hovley and Oasis Club... (end of tape) BAC Carlos, question...between now and next Thursday, do we have a number of big ticket projects that are... CLO That are going to get permitted? BAC Yes. (Inaudible) RSK You'd still permit them...you guys are pretty good at selling stuff I want sometimes. CLO The issue is not between now and next Thursday. The issue is between now... JMB That's your St. Patrick's Day spirit. 39 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 CLO The issue is between now and when we get the information to the consultants so that they can complete their report so that you can adopt the ordinance. PSG And give 30-day notice to the public that there's a nexus study. BAC So, why don't we give the 30-day notice within a two-mile... PSG You have to have a report first so that they can review it. CLO You've got to have a justification (inaudible) and they can challenge it. That's the law. BAC Picky, picky, picky. JF Steve, is there a way you can tell...if we were to go with the proposed motion, what the westernmost and the northernmost limit of that circle would be? SA I'm sorry, I don't follow... JF If you were to move the circle from where it's at there on that map... RAS You want the big circles? JF Yes, the big circles. CLO (inaudible) big circles, Steve. RAS Do all the circles big. SA Oh, sorry. RAS That's okay, that's okay...there. JF Now, is that the big circle using the Cal State site? SA Correct, that's Proposal B at a two-mile radius. 40 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 JF So, if you were to move that to the corner of Gerald Ford and Frank Sinatra, the east corner, how far would that move the circle...how much land, which we would otherwise get fees on, will be left out? ?? It's hard to tell just by looking at it. (Inaudible) BAC We certainly would end up with more on the other side of the freeway. Do you think there are options that are doable here? (Inaudible -- several individuals speaking at the same time) ?? Section 29 is about 600 acres, Jim. JF There are no vacant parcels. I mean, I'm looking at it... RSK I'd suggest we put it right in the middle of the most vacant property where we can collect the most money, if that's what you want to do...build a fire house, then, if that's all we care about. BAC It's not all. It's a consideration. RSK I said "if" that's all. That's what it sounds like. JF Only other option would be a chunk of Freedom Park, but we'd lose all the fees, and half the circle would be north of the freeway with no easy way to get there. RSK How about one of those parcels that Palm Desert Country Club is building houses on? BAC Then you don't have it out on a major street. RSK But it doesn't need to be on a major street, though. BAC A fire station? RSK A fire station doesn't need to be on a major street. There are a lot of fire stations in neighborhoods. There's a fire station in the County just east of Washington that's not on a major street...off of Hovley... 41 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 (Inaudible -- additional discussion by several individuals) RSK I have an idea. Let's pick a place that's right where we want it, like we're talking about, where all that vacant land is, where we've got property...if somebody says...somebody said you didn't want one of our ten acres that we have...25 acres right there on Portola? JF Right. RSK The Fire Department said they didn't want that...I don't know why you don't want it. Why wouldn't you want that? 10 It was too far north, and it was going to... RSK Okay, let me tell you what my idea is. It's not because of location....it's just because it's too far north...it doesn't have to do...let me tell you what...I understand what you're saying...so we take that where we have 10 acres...we actually have 25...and it covers all the area you want to cover...it's not constructed (inaudible) make all that money, then you move the....71, is that at Portola and Monterey?....you move it there and make that bigger and better, then put another fire station somewhere out in the Palm Desert Country Club area. Don't try to tell me everything was...in other words, you're taking 71 and you're moving that up north further on our property that's on Portola, and it covers all that area that you're trying to cover. Then find a place for another station that doesn't have to be as big out in the east end, and you've got all the time you want to take to find a place. It can just be in your plan. If it takes five years to get it, at least you get it someday instead of (inaudible) here, and you're trying to do what's right. JF So you're suggesting we do Proposal A, then. RSK I'm suggesting that on Portola, the Jewish Federation...they're going to build a school there? JF Right. RSK Probably right next door? JF Right. RSK Why isn't that a good location for a fire... 42 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL SA Councilman Kelly, are you referring to Julie Lane? CLO Yes RSK Yes, right there by Julie Lane. MARCH 17, 2006 SA We looked at that site, and the Fire Department...it wasn't their optimal site. I'II let Chief Otero explain. RSK It's not their optimal site because of...they're trying to cover more area. They like it right across the street, and 1 have a little trouble understanding...they like the piece of our 170 acres, which is right across the street, but they don't like the property on Julie Lane. !don't understand that. BAC Well, ask them. RSK That's what I read. 10 The reason...again, that's a good site for a fire station. The problem is we're moving the station about a mile and a half further north if we put it on Julie Lane. Again, our response time, if you look at the circles, there's going to be a large gap between the coverage from Station 33 at Town Center and the new station 71, so that's going to increase our response time. RSK Well, isn't it the same if you put it on the 170 acres? 10 No because it's a half a mile south. JMB I thought our property was on Portola. BAC No, it's south... RSK It's right across the street from the 170 acres. JMB But the 20 acres that we own by Desert Willow... BAC No, this is different. 43 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 RSK We have 25 acres between the 20 acres and Portola. Remember, we bought that so we'd have a way to get from Desert Willow across... JMB But that's not where you're talking about. BAC That's where Dick is talking about. RSK (inaudible) 20 acres, I say put it on the 5 acres so we don't mess up our...I say put it on part of that 25 acres so we don't mess up our 170 acres, and then just let it cover that area out there. It's for that area, then...the Fire Department says there's too much space between there and... RAS Where would you put the new station? RSK I'd put it somewhere in Palm Desert Country Club or that eastern area out there, but we have time, then, to find a place. Find a place that...so we have to take houses or apartments or something, and build it somewhere else. JMB We could take the apartments we saw today behind Casey's. RSK Yes, they were...like if they were over at the corner of Hovley and Kansas, that would be great, wouldn't it? BAC But they're not. RAS But they're not. RSK They're not, but there are some other apartments there. JMB But they're in Bermuda Dunes. RSK No, there's a bunch of apartments right there on Warner Trail. BAC Just...as long as we're looking along Portola, and I know Richard won't agree, but don't...160 acres, 168 acres, or 170 acres builds the same golf course no matter what. RSK It's kind of a little bit like a university land...everybody wants a piece of that 170 acres. This is not the first proposal to go into the (inaudible) to get some of that 170 acres. It will be one and then another and another and another...l'm hanging onto a principle. 44 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL JMB Would you rather save lives or play golf? MARCH 17, 2006 RAS I still think we ought to continue this until Thursday and let staff mull what we've talked about and come back maybe with a different recommendation because with the five of us sitting here trying to decide something, it's not going to get decided. BAC Even if we don't decide it...question...if we put it on the two acres of the 170 acres, what does that do in terms of Proposal A with, not the two-mile, but the lesser mile radius? That leaves an even bigger gap in the eastern part of the City. So if we put it on Portola, whether it's at Julie or whether it's at the 170, we have in essence committed to doing a second fire station somewhere...another fire station somewhere. If we put it on the University site, we're making do with one and the existing one. JF And what (inaudible) policy are we violating if we go with big circles as opposed to little circles? CLO Supposedly, the five-minute response time....if your policy is that that's what you want, that's what you get, and you can have a different policy. This is not a Federal or State law, this is... JF What's our current response time? 10 Our current response times...typically, they are well under five minutes... JF How much under five minutes? SA I looked at the figures you provided for the last year, and it shows that I think you're meeting about 75% of your calls for all three stations right at five minutes. 10 But we average probably about 4.7, 4.8 minutes. SA About 25% are over five minutes. JF So 80% are four minutes...okay...and how much does the big circle add as opposed to the little circle? SA 45 seconds maximum. 45 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 JF So 80% of your calls are at four minutes, and we're adding 45 seconds...aren't you still within five minutes on 80% of your calls? 10 Well, not necessarily. As you look at...especially 71...that's what we're talking about, and that one, our calls there...normally, it's 66%, 70% we're there in five minutes or less, and the rest of the time we're over five minutes, so we're going to add another 45 seconds, and we're going to be looking more at six minutes for Station 71 as far as response time. PSG But if you left 71 there and added a station, then would your times go down? 10 Yes, it would (inaudible) BAC If we put something at the University site, most of the City is in a five-minute response given that most of it is four minutes to start with. 10 That's correct. BAC I would move that we continue this... JF Well, there's a motion on the table. BAC Excuse me, my apologies. Actually, a motion to continue takes precedence over a main motion. RSK Well, you can make a motion to amend, too. BAC Well, amend is a... RSK You can make a motion to substitute. RAS Alright, I'II go back to my original motion, and that was the big circles with the University site, and it was seconded by Councilwoman Benson. JF Well, I'm inclined, given what...you've been talking about Portola, and given the absolute paucity of any vacant land on the east end, and the dickering over the 170 and which side of Portola you're on, if the colleges or the universities will go along with it, to put it at the corner of Gerald Ford...well, actually, Buford's suggestion was to designate 46 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 the intersection's location and work with Taylor Woodrow or put it on the University site, but that will be... CLO Just on the west side of that... RSK If Jean wants to give up her child care reserved property, well we can put it there. JMB Well, they gave four acres, so they might...and they only need about two for the child care center, so maybe there's a compromise there... RSK Maybe there's enough there. JF Can we do that, just identify an intersection, and then it will either be on the east or west? CLO Yes JMB The center that we looked at, that Taylor Woodrow built in Riverside, was not quite two acres. Bill and I went up and looked at it, which holds 250 kids, which is a good-sized child care center, so they might be willing to work with doing... RSK Well, I bet you they would be glad to work with... JF Can I ask a really quick question? BAC You may. JF If we do it from the balance of the child care center site, would we be able to compensate Taylor Woodrow for the land that we're taking? CLO Yes, we could that. JF That would be a little nicer for the developer, who's bent over backwards already, and we're piling yet another thing on top of it, and if the money... RSK Yeah, I (inaudible) compensate them for it. JMB See if you can combine the two on the same lot. 47 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 CLO Because one of the things that the consultants...if we have to buy land, that needs to be added to the cost. JF Buford? BAC The reason I was going to suggest continuance was that before we made a yes on the University site, I wanted to make sure that the University had a chance to say yes before we told them that, so I guess, then, it would be something that would be, then, contingent...if it goes on the University site, it would be contingent on their approval because I don't want them to feel like we turned around and stuffed something down their throat, passed it, and said by the way now we'd like to ask you if you want it. RAS By the way, I would think, though, that a paramedic firehouse might be very advantageous to a (inaudible) campus when it gets built out. RSK But would we want to bother with that if we can get this other piece? RAS We'd prefer the Taylor Woodrow, but if it doesn't work out, we try to negotiate it with Cal State, and that's up to staff to come back and tell us what they're doing. JF In any event, we designate Gerald Ford and Frank Sinatra... BAC Yeah, and that (inaudible) JF Are you amenable to that amendment to your motion? RAS Yes. JF Are you amenable to the second? JMB Yes RAS Carlos, are you amenable? CLO Yes, and I think if we have a general area, we can give that to the consultant. RSK And you're going to make this decision, and no more stations east, is that what you're saying? JF No. I like your suggestion...look at it and... 48 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 RSK Well, if you put another caveat on there that we're going to try to find a place east to do another station so we cover that other area, then I'll... RAS Five more years? RSK ...I'd feel more comfortable...I might even vote yes. JF Are you willing to do that? RAS Let's go with this one right now, then if you want to bring something back... BAC But with notation in the motion, then, that we recognize the issue of the need for fire protection, especially the paramedic ambulance...not paramedic, but ambulance coverage along the eastern corridor of the City... JF And direct staff to go look at it. BAC And direct staff to look at it. RSK So your motion would be the Palm Desert Country Club area... (Inaudible) JMB Calls are going to go down from that area in another ten years... JF So is the motion, then, as they agreed to amend it, with a notation that we direct staff to look at providing ambulance service to the eastern part of our city? RAS Yes JMB Yes JF And come back with recommendations? RAS Yes JF Okay. So there's a motion and a second...Madame Clerk, did you get all those permutations? 49 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 17, 2006 RDK I hope so. You're going with Proposal B, which is somewhere at the intersection of...is it Gerald Ford and Frank Sinatra? JF Um hmmm RDK Okay JF Contingent upon... RDK Contingent upon... JF The consent of Taylor Woodrow or CalState... RDK Or CalState, and then with staff to continue to looking about providing better ambulance coverage for the eastern end of the City and to return with a report and recommendation. JF Okay, there's a motion and a second...all in favor, say "aye". JMB Aye BAC Aye RSK Aye RAS Aye JF Aye...opposed, abstain? Motion carries unanimously. For purposes of clarification: Councilman Spiegel moved to, by Minute Motion, approved the staff report's Proposal B, which identifies the intersection of Frank Sinatra Drive/Gerald Ford Drive for a new municipal fire station, contingent upon: 1) Consent to this request by either Taylor Woodrow on the east side or California State University, San Bernardino - Palm Desert Campus, on the west; 2) recognition of the need for additional fire protection, especially ambulance coverage, in the City's eastern end, directing staff to return with such recommendation. Motion was seconded by Benson and carried by a 5-0 vote. 50 APPROVED MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL V. ADJOURNMENT MARCH 17, 2006 Mayor Ferguson moved to adjourn to Closed Session at 4:29 p.m. Motion was seconded by Crites and carried by a 5-0 vote. The meeting was r- ''ened at 4:40 p.m. and immediately adjourned with no reportable action from C • es ' n. ATTEST: RACHELL'E D. KLASSEN, ITY CLERK CITY OF PALM DESERT, CALIFORNIA JIM PE GUSON, MA OR 51