HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010-03-24APPROVED MINUTES
SPECIAL JOINT MEETING OF THE
PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL
AND
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
— Wednesday, March 24, 2010 — 4:00 p.m. —
Palm Desert Civic Center Council Chamber
73510 Fred Waring Drive, Palm Desert, California 92260
I. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Finerty convened the City Council Meeting at 4:00 p.m.
Chairman Limont convened the Planning Commission Meeting at 4:00 p.m.
II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - Mayor Cindy Finerty
III. INVOCATION - Mayor Cindy Finerty
IV. ROLL CALL
City Council Present:
Councilmember Jean M. Benson
Mayor Pro Tem Jim Ferguson arrived at 4:03 p.m.
Councilman Richard S. Kelly
Councilman Robert A. Spiegel
Mayor Cindy Finerty
Planning Commission Present:
Commissioner Sonia Campbell
Commissioner Nancy DeLuna
Vice Chairman Mari Schmidt
Commissioner Van Tanner
Chairman M. Connor Limont
Also Present:
John M. Wohlmuth, City Manager/RDA Executive Director
David J. Erwin; City Attorney
Jill Tremblay, Assistant City Attorney
Justin McCarthy, ACM for Redevelopment
Stephen Y. Aryan, Assistant to the City Manager
Rachelle D. Klassen, City Clerk
Bo Chen, City Engineer
Russell Grance, Director of Building & Safety
Lauri Aylaian, Director of Community Development
Paul S. Gibson, Director of Finance/City Treasurer
Mark Greenwood, Director of Public Works
Frankie Riddle, Director of Special Programs
Steve Brooker, Fire Marshal, Palm Desert Fire/Riverside Co. Fire Dept./Cal Fire
Kevin Swartz, Assistant Planner
Janis Steele, Parks & Recreation Services Manager
Grace L. Mendoza, Deputy City Clerk
APPROVED MINUTES
SPECIAL JOINT MEETING OF THE
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PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
V. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
None
VI. PUBLIC HEARINGS
MARCH 24, 2010
A. REQUEST FOR APPROVAL OF A NEW AQUATIC CENTER LOCATED IN THE
CIVIC CENTER PARK AT 73-510 FRED WARING DRIVE — 7.8-ACRE SITE
LOCATED IN THE PARK, SOUTH OF MAGNESIA FALLS DRIVE AND EAST
OF THE BASEBALL FIELDS, FEATURING A 50-METER X 25-YARD
COMPETITION POOL, ZERO -DEPTH -ENTRY RECREATION POOL, TWO
3-METER AND TWO 1-METER DIVING BOARDS, OFFICES, FAMILY
CHANGING ROOMS, CONCESSION STAND, MULTI -USE ROOM, SHADE
STRUCTURES, TEMPORARY BLEACHERS, SLIDES, PLAY FEATURES,
LANDSCAPED AREAS, AND PARKING WITHIN THE EXISTING DATE PALM
GROVE; APPROVAL OF THE PROJECT INCLUDES ADOPTION OF A
MITIGATED NEGATIVE DECLARATION OF ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT AS IT
RELATES TO THE PROJECT, PURSUANT TO SECTION 15074 OF THE
CALIFORNIA ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY ACT (CEQA) (City of Palm Desert,
Applicant).
The following is a verbatim transcript of this portion of the Special Joint Meeting of the
Palm Desert City Council and Palm Desert Planning Commission:
ISty
CF Mayor Cindy Finerty
KS Kevin Swartz, Assistant Planner
ND Nancy DeLuna, Planning Commissioner
JS Janis Steele, Parks & Recreation Services Manager
CL M. Connor Limont, Planning Commission Chair
MS Mari Schmidt, Planning Commission Vice Chair
JMB Councilmember Jean M. Benson
AP Alejandro Pinnick, Archpack
RAS Councilman Robert A. Spiegel
JD John Dimmel, Vice President, Gould Evans Associates, L.C.
VT Van Tanner, Planning Commissioner
SC Sonia Campbell, Planning Commissioner
JMW John M. Wohlmuth, City Manager
RB Rob Ballew, Family YMCA of the Desert
MP Marla Paasch, resident
(Key continued on page 3)
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Kev (continued from page 21
KK Kevin Kalman, Desert Recreation District
MG Mark Greenwood, Director of Public Works
JN Jay Niemczak, Parks Facilities Manager
RSK Councilman Richard S. Kelly
DJE David J. Erwin, City Attorney
JF Mayor Pro Tem Jim Ferguson
MARCH 24, 2010
CF Our only item is a request for approval of a new aquatic center located in the Civic
Center Park at 73-510 Fred Waring Drive — 7.8-acre site located in the Park, south of
Magnesia Falls Drive and east of the baseball fields, featuring a 50-meter by 25-yard
competition pool, zero -depth -entry recreation pool, two 3-meter and two 1-meter diving
boards, offices, family changing rooms, concession stand, multi -use room, shade
structures, temporary bleachers, slides, play features, landscaped areas, and parking
within the existing date palm grove; approval of the project includes adoption of a
mitigated negative declaration of environmental impact as it relates to the project,
pursuant to Section 15074 of CEQA — City of Palm Desert, Applicant. I will ask for a
staff presentation, and I see Kevin ready to go.
KS Chair and Members of the Planning Commission, Mayor and Members of the City
Council, the 7.8-acre site is located within the existing Palm Desert Civic Center Park
complex, north of Fred Waring Drive, east of Monterey, west of Portola Avenue, and
south of Magnesia Falls. The site is zoned Public Institutional. To the north is
Monterey Country Club, zoned Planned Residential; to the northeast is Palm Desert
Mobile Estates, to the east is Portola Palms Mobilehome (Park), and also to the east are
single-family homes. To the east (meant west) are the ball fields and COD, and to the
south is more of Civic Center Park. Access is off of Magnesia Falls Drive. The parking
lot will be located within the existing date grove. One row of the date palm trees will be
removed and relocated on -site. These date palms will be removed and relocated
on -site. There will be 175 parking stalls. In the staff report, it mentioned 174, but there
will be 175. At least two of the parking stalls would be identified for golf cart parking,
with each stall able to hold two golf carts. Here would be the golf cart parking. The
parking lot circulation is designed for team bus access and provides a drop-off and
pick-up lanes located in the front of the building. Here's Magnesia Falls...you'd come
in...this would be the bus access and fire access, leading you down to the front of the
building. The drive aisles are one-way and are 21 feet wide except for the west, which
is 16 feet, so this one would be 16 feet. At this time, surface materials for the parking
aisles will be asphalt. Each parking stall would be pavers, and the bus drop-off and
pick-up lanes would be concrete. There will be 12-foot-high light poles throughout the
parking.
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The building will be designed to be LEED-certified at 18 feet in height and totals 8,300
square feet. The staff report mentioned 7,000 square feet, but it will be 8,300 square
feet. The building includes a concession stand, which will be open to the public, with
park access, men's and women's and family changing facilities that include bathrooms
and lockers, staff and lifeguard offices and check -in, a lobby area, multi -purpose room
that can be rented out for events, and pool mechanical equipment. So here's the
building and the pools.
The competition pool is a 50-meter by 25-yard pool and has two 3-meter and two
1-meter diving boards. The diving boards would be located here, and this is the
competition pool. The pool will be used for swim meets for all ages, competition
events, diving, recreational swimming, and water polo. There will be six 50-foot-tall
light poles installed around the competition pool, three per side. The red dots indicate
the light poles, so one, two, three...one, two, three. The poles will be designed with two
sets of light fixtures at 12 feet and at 50 feet, so this is an example of a light structure that
would be 50 feet, and you can see here would be 12 feet. Staff is researching the
possibility of reducing the pole heights to 40 feet. The 50-foot light fixtures will only be
used for special events. To give you an idea, the current lights within the Park are
currently at 75 feet.
The zero -depth entry recreation pool, which is here, will provide residents a place to
relax and an area for children to play. The pool will also serve as a therapy, exercise,
instructional, and recreational pool. Slides and play equipment will be provided for the
recreation pool. The slides would be here, and the pool playground would be here.
The project is consistent with the City's General Plan and is being planned as a
Redevelopment Project. The project is part of the Civic Center Park and will add value
to the community. With the proximity of residents, the college campus, high school,
and other uses within the Park makes this location attractive for this type of
development.
The Aquatic Center requires 71 parking stalls. The project has provided 104 more
stalls than are required.
Staff did prepare a Mitigated Negative Declaration of Environmental Impact and
advertised within 300 feet of the Civic Center Park and received no comments in
opposition or in favor. Staff recommends that the Planning Commission adopt a
resolution approving the new aquatic center and adoption of a Mitigated Negative
Declaration and recommends that the City Council adopt a resolution approving a new
aquatic center and Mitigated Negative Declaration. The project architect and pool
design team have a more detailed PowerPoint for the site, building, pools, and play
equipment.
That concludes staffs presentation. Are there any questions of staff at this time?
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CF Are there any questions from the Planning Commission?
MARCH 24, 2010
ND Yes, I have a question. First, I want to thank staff for the wonderful job they did, the
thorough and comprehensive presentation. It is obvious that you spent a lot of time and
a lot of effort, and you've done a wonderful job, and it's a wonderful project, well laid -out.
do have a couple of questions that I did not see in the staff report. Number one, you
referred to slides...how many, and how high?
KS The slides would be located here. There would be two slides. To the very top of the
platform would be 19 feet, and there would be a canopy over the slides that would
approximately be about 27 feet.
ND Why do you need such height...27 feet is almost 3 stories tall.
KS Well, 27 feet would be from the bottom to the top of the canopy, but from the ground to
the top of the slide platform would be at 19 feet.
ND So that's two stories almost.
KS Correct.
ND And you need something that tall?
KS I'II let the project architect...
ND Thank you.
JD Good afternoon. I don't think we're necessarily set on that height. That's kind of what
we had been discussing, but I believe we can get shorter pool slides if need be. I don't
think there are issues with doing that.
ND Alright, thank you. I have one other question, Kevin. You talked about events...what
kind of events would you have that would need a 50-foot light pole?
KS I'II let Janis Steele address those questions.
JS Good afternoon. The events that we're talking about, I think....we're building the
50-meter pool and the 25-yard pool so that we can hold competitive events, so it would
be in the rare case that there's a weekend -long meet that maybe goes (inaudible) In
order to run some of those meets, you have to have a certain lighting level, and the pool
architect can probably speak to it...and like you said, we're trying to get them down to 40
feet if we can...that may require us to put in more light poles, and we're trying to stay
away from that since the timeframe when we would actually have those night meets are
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not that often, and we would notify neighbors whenever we would do that and let them
know that they might be on for a couple hours into the evening. So it would be swim
meets, competitive events, maybe diving meets.
ND And is there a requirement for those...to hold those events that there has to be a certain
amount of light at a certain height?
JS Yes.
ND Okay, thank you.
CL Anyone else? Any other Commissioners? I have one question, and that goes back to
Commissioner Schmidt's question with regard to the lights at 50 feet....is there...what's
the issue of bringing them down to 40 feet, please?
AP Hello, my name is Alejandro of Archpack, we're the aquatic designers...the issue of
bringing them down in height is a viewing...a lighting angle.
CL Okay.
AP As we bring them down, the angle is not as...what's the word...as best as it needs to be,
and if there were water polo courses, the light would bounce off of the water and blind
the players, so essentially we're trying to meet a 30 degree angle.
CL One other question with regard to light, and I quote...these are for rare events. To have
a 50-foot light pole up for an event that may be years away or that we may not have that
often, is there any way that we can, if you will, pre -wire or pre...fit, I guess is what I'm
looking to say...in some way, to say that, you know, maybe not initially that we have
these huge lights in but later on if we find that we have the need for them, then we've
done our foundation work and our electrical work so that we can put them in at that time,
or is that something that's not possible?
AP Under normal circumstances it would be possible, but with the possible code coming out
in 2010, there...I'm sorry, 2011...we could design the bases now to meet current code
standards, but we may have issues once the new code comes out.
CL Okay, good, thank you. Anyone else?
MS I have one question of Kevin, I believe. In the request in your staff report, you see a lot
of items included, but I don't see anything referencing fencing. Has that been
incorporated into this?
KS There is fencing, and in the architect's PowerPoint, they do address that, so there is a
slide that will show that.
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MS Great. Thank you.
CF Okay. Any questions from the City Council?
MARCH 24, 2010
JMB I have one on the lighting as well because the light poles that sit out at Indian Wells are
out there all year round and only used during the tournament. Aren't there any that
retract, and you pull them up when you need them? They are just ugly all year round,
and if we have them and are only going to use them when we have events, if we could
have them so that they are down and then come up when we need them...there's got to
be technology like that.
AP Unfortunately, the sports lighting manufacturer does not have anything of that design.
That would be more of a temporary lighting design in which lights would be brought out
to the site when required and then rented by the City.
JMB Can't we look into that for it because just to have them sitting out there at 50 feet when
you're not going to use them...it's ugly.
AP We could. The other reason that lighting is important is safety. As the lifeguards are
sitting around the pool, the depth of the water, it does break through the surface, so as
lifeguards are sitting on their stands, it does reach the bottom of the pool, allowing them
to see if there is any child or adult at the bottom of the pool.
JMB You mean the lights are going to be on in the daytime?
AP No, no, not during the daytime, but if there was an event at night and...
JMB Well, the lights would be up then. If they were on a retractable pole, they wouldn't be
up
AP Yes, unless there was some special training going on at night between events.
JMB (inaudible) anyway...they could still be...if there is something retractable, they could still
be, and they could still be up there when they're needed and down so we don't have to
look at them all the time.
AP We could look at that.
JMB I would appreciate that.
CF Any other questions from the City Council?
RAS I have a couple. The kids pool is adjacent to the wash, is that correct?
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KS Correct
MARCH 24, 2010
RAS I remember when they had the pool over at COD, and the noise emanated... emanating
from that pool was pretty tremendous when all the kids were in from the Y and so on. Is
there any way that we can baffle any of that sound going to the homes that are on the
other side of the wash?
JD We do have on the side that is the recreation pool, along here, there's an existing berm
that is there, and as we excavate for the pools, we are going to still build up some of that
berm, so at the pool deck level, it will actually, the landscape will kind of slope up
gradually, so you will have some baffling from that, and we'll still have a fence along that
side. One of the...one of the, also, the reason for kind of switching these, because at
one time we did look at the more competition pool on this side and the recreation pool on
the park side, was the lighting and trying to get the lighting farther away from the
neighborhood. But there is opportunity to baffle some of that sound.
RAS If you could, please, because they're going to be noisy. Kids are noisy when they're in
a pool.
JD Yes, they are.
RAS And the second question is the diving boards. Diving boards can be dangerous.
People fall off them and so on. When we toured pools, we went to Coronado, and
Coronado had diving boards that were retractable. They could be put up, taken
down... is that feasible?
AP Yes, the springboards that we are proposing to you is they are...they can be removed so
the children can't go on to the boards when not in use.
RAS Okay, good. Thank you.
CF Okay, any other questions? Very well, now I will open the public hearing on behalf of
the Planning Commission and the City Council and ask the applicant to address both
bodies.
JD Good afternoon. I don't think I introduced myself before. My name is John Dimmel.
I'm with Gould Evans (inaudible) PowerPoint here. I wanted to thank you for allowing
us to work on this project. This is a very exciting project for us, and I'm going to walk
you through some of our thought process here, and please...I'II try to go through it fairly
quickly because there are a number of slides, but stop me if there are any questions.
Up here we kind of have a three-dimensional view of the site. The date palm grove,
which we found extremely exciting to have that and be able to utilize it for the parking lot,
and then also the site to the south of it, which is the grassy area, which works very well
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for the layout of the pools and trying to keep a green space, a lawn space, between the
two pools to keep it fairly cool on people's feet as they are out at the pool area and also
provide a space that could be used for additional seating if there are events that happen,
swim meets and things like that, which we'll show some images at the end of this. And
then the space that is between the parking and the pool area as the actual bath house
that contains all of the lockers and storage and concession. One of the driving ideas
behind this was having this one predominant access that kind of comes in off of
Magnesia Falls that creates an opening in the building that kind of pushes a volume of
space back to where the edge of the pools are on the south side, creating kind of this
procession into the building and into the aquatic center. And then the idea of kind of
having that piece that is pushed back lifted up so that that actually becomes the slide
structure itself and an area that has kind of a water feature play area.
The other thing that we find kind of very innovative is when we're using this amount of
water for the pools, occasionally on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, we'll have to back wash
these pools, which is a considerable amount of water that is being pumped out and
basically wasted. We're trying to work through this idea of taking that water and back
washing it into a space on the front of the building, kind of like a dry creek bed, that will
contain that water and let it set, let the chlorine burn off and then actually use that water
to irrigate the date palm grove so we're not wasting any of that water, we're taking the
water that is from the pool that could go into the sewer system and instead retaining that
and using it to water the date palm grove. So that's one thing that we're kind of really
excited about is being able to use that as being sustainable with this project.
I'm going to go through the site fairly quickly here as well. The parking area that Kevin
had talked about...we do have...in red, you kind of see where those light pole locations
are, and those are going to be 12-foot high light poles. They are very similar to what
you have in the park area already. Also, the access loop that Kevin had mentioned
coming in off of Magnesia Falls and all of the required turning radiuses for buses and fire
access as well as any deliveries. We're going to have chlorine that's brought into the
pool area and then waste and recycling. So that all works within the date palm grove.
And there are a few trees to the north there that we will have to relocate just because of
turning radiuses, but we will find homes for those. And then Kevin had also
mentioned...the west side there is a row of trees that it was just too narrow to actually fit
a parking aisle in there, so we'll be relocating those as well. And this starts to give you
an idea of where those trees might be relocated to. This is our landscape plan, and the
idea was to kind of just bring those around the east, west, and south edge of the pool
area and of creating a soft edge between the aquatic center and the park.
The bath house itself....l'II just walk through these very quickly so you get an idea. The
concession area is all the way at the west side, which serves both the aquatic center and
the park itself, so it'll have two windows that will serve both areas. We have storage
space for any of the lane lines, and if there are swim meets, we'll have lockable basically
cages in there so they can be locked separately for any swim teams. The men's locker
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area and women's locker area, with a water heater chase kind of between those two
spaces, and then four family changing areas, which can also be used when there are
swim meets and stuff, we don't have to have people coming in to the locker areas, they
can just come right off from the pool deck and use those as restrooms. And then the
check-in/lifeguard area and manager's office that kind of opens up to the pool. And
then an outdoor lobby that we kind of saw in the initial concept ideas there where people
kind of walk through. And adjacent to that, the multi -purpose room and the first aid
office that also overlooks the pool. But trying to keep that on the east side as well as all
the pool mechanical and chemical storage because that's where we might have trucks
coming in. So the east side of the building is where we have all of that utility access.
This kind of gives an idea of some of the elevations. The one at the top is where the
concession area is, so it's kind of just a short face of the building. The one in the center
is the south elevation that you would see from the pool area, and that has all of the
highlighted in yellow where all the doors are into the spaces. There's also a larger
block of yellow, which is right in here, which is outdoor locker areas. You'll have locker
areas within the changing rooms, men's and women's changing rooms, but we'll also
have locker areas that are on the pool deck for security, so it's something where you can
still put your possessions in there and be able to kind of monitor those as you're in the
pool area. And then the bottom elevation is the north elevation as you're approaching
the building. And all this we're looking at, kind of this band of glass that happens up
near the top so we tried to rely as much as we can on natural day lighting for all of these
spaces during the day, and that way kind of cutting down energy use so we don't have to
use as much light during the day to kind of light those spaces. This gives you an idea of
the section of the building, kind of sloping it. To the right hand side is where the pool
area, so we're kind of...we're creating a canopy at the pool area that's going to keep a
shaded space along the south side of the building. And the north side of the building is
where Kevin had mentioned we're up at 18 feet and then, again, glass on the north and
south sides so when you're in the space you have a good amount of daylight that's in
there and (inaudible) towards the surrounding landscape.
The pool area itself...we are working with one of the artists that's been selected. In the
initial design, they are showing...we had the pools configured a different way.
Currently we're looking at art that is basically still in the pool deck, but it's along the south
side of the building at some of these major points where you enter and, through that
breezeway, entrances into where the changing areas are and the concession area and
also into the multi -purpose room. But that's something we're continuing to work with
the artists through the design, development, and construction documents phase, and
I'm sure we'll have an update at a later date on all of that information.
Then again, the lap pool that Kevin had talked about. The recreation pool on the east
side. And then this kind of highlights...in the shallow area of the recreation pool, this is
what we are looking at as far as the play structure, which was 20 feet to the top of the
bucket and then the slide structure being 23 feet basically to the hand rail height of the
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top of the slide structure, but that's something we can continue to look at if you want to
lower that down, what that might be, but trying to keep the play structure itself kind of
less circus -like so we don't have a lot of colors, and maybe something where we start to
look at the more desert colors or just a single color for that so we don't have a lot of
colors going on.
And with a few, what we call vignettes, of like what this might look like, this being from
the south side of the site looking at the recreation pool, just kind of a typical day when
there's not a swim meet going on. You can see this lawn area out in between the two
pools, and you catch a little bit of the slide structure that is happening at the edge there.
And then the ability to provide shade, and one of the things we've been talking a lot
about is just providing the infrastructure so you can put in, like, beach umbrellas and
provide shade during the day at the lawn area. And then when there are swim meets
during the day, a lot of the teams bring in their own pop-up tents, so we could take those
beach umbrellas down, and that whole lawn area could be populated by individual
teams' pop-up tents. Or if it is a larger event, we could provide additional bleachers
along that side, which could extend back even further if there was a large national event
or something that was televised or who knows what might happen in the future. And
then also the entry and then from the parking lot approaching the building during the day
and then looking at that and also kind of in the evening time. And that's our process so
far. Thank you for allowing us to work with you guys on this. It's totally exciting.
CF Okay, any questions of the applicant by the Planning Commission?
ND Once again, I just have one question about the height of the pools, or the slides, I'm
sorry. I think we've addressed the lights being a concern. Is there a way that those
slides can be lowered? We don't want a Raging Waters, you know, park here, and it
looks to me like they're taller than any of the surrounding buildings, and I'm just
concerned that it gives a different flavor to the...you've done such a wonderful, sensitive
job of being sensitive to the environment, and to have that play structure and the slide
structure be so tall to me is just incongruent with what it is that we're trying to
accomplish.
JD Yes, I think we will definitely look at the height of that. And I don't know if there is a
preferred height. I would imagine we can get these slide structures in almost any
height. It's just a matter of how, I guess, how much...what type of height we're looking
at or what would be preferred.
(inaudible)
JD And then, also, similarly with the slide structure, we're looking at kind of just a one -tone
color of those slides and not multiple colors. If there is a preferred height, we will
definitely look at incorporating that.
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ND I think lower.
JD Lower?
VT I say higher.
JD Like half of that, or?
VT Still a bit of the kid here, I guess.
MARCH 24, 2010
ND Until today, when we were told how tall it was, I haven't had a chance to consider
different options, but I'm sure that that's your business, and you're already aware of
different heights, and I just would like you to consider making those slides lower.
JD Absolutely.
JMB Well, I think we want the play equipment to look like play equipment, not carnival
equipment.
CF Any other questions?
VT Yes, I've got one other question. You've got, you know, on the pool, the 50-meter pool,
you've got, looks to me, like you've got permanent starting platforms for the 50-meter, or
are they portable?
AP The starting platforms are all portable, and they...
VT They're all portable?
AP Yes
VT And they're going to portable on the 25-yard as well?
AP Correct
CL Commissioner Schmidt?
MS Yes, I noticed...maybe they're there but you didn't address them...are the lifeguards on
foot or are they in towers, and what's with them?
AP There will be lifeguard stands placed around the park...
MS Permanent?
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AP ...and we would work with your parks and rec to determine where we put them.
MS Okay, and they are permanent structures, they're not movable?
AP They are movable or permanent depending on your preference.
MS Okay, thank you.
CL I have one structural question. I don't know if it's structural. At one part discussion
previously, we talked about the mechanical, the equipment room, and I don't know that
that was going to be air conditioned. My only concern is, depending on what you've
chosen, does that affect the longevity of the equipment? It gets hot here.
AP The mechanical room does not need to be air conditioned. It will have adequate
ventilation and...basically for the heaters and for venting of the pumps, but additional
venting was not required.
CL Even with our summers and everything else, we don't...does it...what I'm looking for is,
does it lessen or does it, you know, does it shorten the life of the equipment if it's running
at that hot a temperature? You know, because our summers are, you know, we're not
the coast.
AP That's true.
VT They're brutal.
CL Last summer was, yeah.
AP That's something we could look into with the vendors to see if it would be a better idea to
insulate that room.
CL I just think we need to take it into consideration. We're talking probably a sizable
amount of money for the equipment, and we certainly don't want to have to be replacing
it on a regular basis, so if you just take it into consideration, they can look at it and say,
you know what, it's not necessary, it self -ventilates, that type of thing. Just so you're
aware of it.
AP Okay.
VT You know, you also talked about reclaiming the water for purposes of watering the dates
and maybe other shrubs around. How long of a process is dechlorinization [sic] of that
water once you back wash, and is there a ponding problem of...you treat the water when
it comes out, before it's dechlorinized [sic], or what do you do?
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AP As the filters are back washed, the water is aerated essentially as it comes out of the
pipe. The agitation allows most of the chlorine to air off. As it sits there, it takes
anywhere from one to two days. Unfortunately, we don't have any hands-on scientific
readings as to what the exact amount would be for time, and it does vary on the weather,
whether you have, you know, a cloudy day or if it's full, one of the hottest days of the
summer, but we could get some more information on that. Right now, the idea is that it
would sit there for, essentially, two days before it's used.
VT Well, I think it's a great idea. I just don't want it to be still and, you know, create a
hazard, I guess, a tractable nuisance, if that's what you want to call it.
AP The idea now is that the depth is only 18 inches or less, which caters to the Health
Department for any line or active feature.
VT Okay, thank you.
SC Regarding the hours of the pool...is the pool going to be opened...what hours? How
many days?
JS Currently we're looking at the pool being used seven days a week during the weekdays,
6am to 9pm (inaudible) shortened hours, but we are currently conducting a feasibility
study. We have hired a consultant, the Finance Department has hired a consultant, to
look at what kinds of fees and charges we have and what kinds of hours of operation that
we can maintain in order to recover costs. We had committed to the Council, for one,
that we would recover 60% operational costs, so we want to make sure that that's going
to happen. And right now we're looking at the competition pool being open year-round.
We'II look at those hours, those will come back, but right around 6am to 9pm weekdays,
weekends a little bit shorter hours, and the recreational pool a shortened season,
probably from March to October, somewhere around there, and then possibly available
for parties or weekend rentals, things like that.
SC Because also windy conditions...is there a possibility that you would have to go ahead
and close the pool and not allow people in there, or not really, and the wind doesn't
matter?
JS The wind should not matter. We'd close the pool if there is lightning, which we don't
see a lot of that really, and if you couldn't see the bottom of the pool, and we're not
anticipating that that would, that you couldn't see (inaudible), we're not anticipating that
that would happen, either. So we should have pretty consistent hours, we would think.
JMB On the swim meets and stuff like that that you have there, do we get a fee for that?
JS We haven't...that's what the fee study is showing us right now, but we're going to
work...that is probably going to be some type of rental fee. We are working with our
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Finance Director right now with the consultant, talking to different user groups and things
like that, and they'll come back with a structure and what they think that we could charge
people, what kind of fee structure, what kind of costs we could charge at the pool in
order to maintain the pool and to recover costs. So, yes, there will probably be some
type of rental fee for that.
JMB And for our residents, little kids, they won't be charged?
JS Typically...that's typically how it works out, you've got your 3 and under or 2 and under
free, you know, comes in with an adult, but that's what we're working out during that
whole fee study, and I'll make sure to let them know that's your desire.
JMB Right.
CL Janis, one last question. Will Palm Desert be running the pool?
JS Currently what we're doing is looking at developing an RFP to solicit a pool operator.
CL So we'll contract it out, and you'll oversee the contractor, or the Rec Department will
oversee?
JS Is that a yes? City Manager?
JMW We're going to do an RFP to compare what the cost...because we're attempting to get
60% recovery of the operation expense...so that RFP, or whoever is going to run it, goes
into the formula of what we have to...and the City will manage the contract, whoever....Y
or the Rec District, or whoever runs the pool will manage that contract.
CL Okay, thank you.
CF Okay, questions of the applicant by the City Council.
RAS I have a couple. Right turn in, right turn out on Magnesia Falls, is that correct?
KS Correct.
RAS With all of that traffic, is that going to be a good thing or not? Does anybody anticipate
there's going to be traffic tie-ups?
KS We do not anticipate any traffic tie-ups.
RAS Okay, and in your financial fiscal impact, you indicate that it's going to cost about a
million two hundred fifty thousand dollars a year to operate the pool, and if we get 60%
back, it will cost the City about $50,000 a year...is that right?
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JS $500,000
RAS $500,000? Excuse me, $500,000....yes, okay, thank you.
CF Any other questions from the Council? Seeing none, I'II ask for testimony from the
audience in favor or opposition to the project.
RB Good afternoon, Rob Ballew with the YMCA of the Desert. Long time in coming,
exciting ideas. We would really like to have this pool kid -friendly, and if the slides are at
20 feet, I think there are going to be more kids than if they were at 5 feet. So I think the
pool is what we want to do for the kids in this area because it's going to be real exciting,
but keep that in mind as we're building and designing it. It's for a lot of kids, and kids
like excitement, and I think that would be a really great thing. The Y looks forward to
participating in this. We think it's a great idea. Thank you very much.
CF Anyone else wishing to speak? Please state your name and address for the record.
MP My name's Marla Paasch, resident of Palm Desert. I'd like to know if the 60% that will
not be recouped through this process...will the taxpayers be on hook for it? And
would also like to know...$11.5 million...and I think that money could be better used
towards water mains, there are three that have gone within four miles of where I've lived,
and also gas leaks in the area, and there are much better things that can be going on
instead of this.
CF Thank you for your comments. Anyone else?
KK Good afternoon. Kevin Kalman with Desert Recreation District, and we'd also like to
express our support for the project. And having operated the pool at COD prior to its
going under and providing opportunities not just for the kids in our programs but the kids
in the Y programs, this has been sorely missed. We've been utilizing the Palm Desert
High School pool as best we can to fill the void, and I think that this will be really good for
the community. Thanks.
CF Anyone else? Seeing none, I'II close the public hearing and send it over to Chairperson
Limont for deliberation. Excuse me for one second. Councilmember Benson has a
question of the City Manager.
JMB I just wondered in comparison to what we pay on the soccer fields and the other and the
park maintenance, what's the comparison between what we'll have to put up for the pool
and what those are...ballpark?
JMW You mean the recovery at the soccer field versus the recovery at the pool?
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JMB No, what we actually are out to maintain them as a public use.
JMW Mark, do you have the amount of the contract on the soccer park?
MG No, but Janis might.
MARCH 24, 2010
JS if I can, I guess it's a question we didn't expect today, sorry, but as far as maintenance at
all of the parks that we have, we spend about $10,000 to $12,000 per acre per year, so
if you....soccer park is 20 acres times $10,000, it's about...go ahead...
JN All the park contracts total in the area of roughly $400,000.
JS All the parks total in the area of $400,000, and that's just to maintain them on a daily
basis, and that's not for any extra tree trimming or different things like that. It's just to
mow them and maintain them. That doesn't include seeding and things like that. And
that's where the, like....we have 225 acres, and let's say that we average spending
about $10,000 to $12,000 per acre.
JMB I just wanted a comparison to show what we won't recover where we're already
spending on parks and (inaudible)
JMW And the recovery...if we're spending that much per acre and the recovery on most of our
ball felds...baseball fields, soccer fields....are minimal. It's certainly not anywhere
near 60%...probably 10% or lower.
JS Lower. Most of the parks that we have, we don't really see a recovery at all. The
Recreation District, as you know, schedules and runs those, and they see probably
minimal returns to oversee and schedule them. But most of the parks are out there for
the public, and we pick up the tab.
JMB Well, I guess my point in asking is that some people say...
RSK Could you use the microphone...because I have trouble hearing you.
JMB I'm sorry. I said my reason for asking is I know we'll have people come in and say we're
spending too much on the pools, forgetting that we have all the park (inaudible) and the
ball fields, and I just wanted something to tell them no, we're not. Thank you.
CF Back to Chairperson Limont.
CL What is the pleasure of the Planning Commission? Any further discussion?
VT I just have a couple of comments. I am absolutely, totally in favor of bringing a pool to
Palm Desert for its residents and also from a competitive standpoint. I have been
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looking at pool concepts since probably the late 80's and have seen several different
concepts come before Parks & Rec and now also Planning Commission and Council.
And my only concern is that we're doing more for the competitive edge than we are for
the family edge. And we're creating a tremendous pool for competition at 50-meter,
25-yard. Where we're lacking, I believe, is to the families of the city of Palm Desert.
I'm totally in favor of this, and I support its...the actual implementation of the pool. I just
wanted to go on record saying that I think that we're shifting the emphasis on
competition as opposed to family, but I will definitely vote to approve the pool.
CL Any further comments?
ND I have one comment. I also support the pool. I think they've done a tremendous job,
and I know they spent a lot of time, and they've been sensitive to the environment,
they've addressed the needs. I just wonder how we can go ahead and complete the
process and yet ask for something like the slides to be lowered. I don't want to impede
the process, I just want to have that be considered.
CL To have that come back as a separate approval, is that....does that limit...I'm sorry,
does that limit the process going forward?
SC I don't think that would be necessary...
VT I don't either.
SC ...just go ahead and do that.
DJE I think you've made it clear to the staff that you want the slides lower. I think that is
sufficient. So in the planning process, I'm sure that will be taken into consideration.
ND Thank you.
CL I think what we ought to ask is, staff, as we move forward with this, if you just keep us all,
you know, in the loop and let us know as it's going forward, and maybe at some point
we'll have a study session with regard to it as we get closer. So do I have a motion?
ND I move we approve the aquatic center and the Mitigated Negative Declaration.
DJE That's Resolution No. 2525.
ND Yes.
VT Second.
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CL I have a motion and a second, and I will call for a verbal vote. All in favor, please say
"aye".
SC Aye
ND Aye
MS Aye
VT Aye
CL Aye. Opposed? Vote passes, Resolution 2525 by unanimous vote.
CF Thank you very much. Okay, now we're ready for City Council deliberation.
(Inaudible)
RAS I'll just make one comment. I agree with Commissioner Tanner. The pool, in my
opinion, will be used much more by the kids than it will be by the divers and the people
playing water polo and etc., etc., and I would like to see it bigger. But we've waited a
long time for a pool, ever since COD closed, and that was a number of years ago, so
will vote in favor of the pool.
CF Any other comments?
JMB Well, I guess I'm still concerned...if you would look into the lights to see if those poles
could be retractable because to have them sit out there at 50 feet and just sit there all the
time in the daytime is ugly, and if they could be retractable, it would be much more
pleasing to the eye. And I agree with Bob and Van...if there was any way to make it
more kid -friendly, I would be in favor of that. I know we've wanted a pool for the whole
30-some years I've been on this Council, and if we're going to get it, we want to get it
right, we want to serve the community, and it was always meant to be for the kids that
didn't have a pool. So many affluent people that live here have a pool in the back yard.
Our school here at Lincoln School is a poverty school, and those kids don't have pools in
their back yards, and it would be nice if they had one within walking distance. They
walk to the McCallum, and they're just thrilled to death when they get in there, and
anything we can do to make it more kid -friendly would be okay with me.
CF Councilman Kelly?
RSK Well, that 19-foot slide will make it more kid -friendly, so I'm not in favor of reducing the
height of the slides. We could keep it, maybe, a more friendly color. And also, the play
complex that goes in there, it's a very popular thing for kids. It's very complicated, it's
hard to explain it right here, but there are all kinds of things that happen with water, and
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kids have a lot of fun with that. So there's a couple things that are, I think, probably
more kid -friendly than you might think there is. And the concern about the lights...well,
the lights that we have at the ball park right next door, I think the lights we have here are
almost going to disappear. They are so much shorter than the ball park lights. I don't
think they're going to be obtrusive at all. And I think, if I understood Counciimember
Benson's point there, we collect money to provide service to the community, and all
those parks that we have out there, ball fields and soccer fields and everything, they're
not cheap. They cost a lot of money, and if you start comparing the pool, sometimes
we think well, it's okay to spend extra money on our favorite things but not on what we
don't necessarily do, but we spend a lot of money already out there for recreation and for
good reason. And so I think, you know, that what we're going to do here is well worth
the ongoing costs that we're going to be faced with. And we have a company I think
that is going to do a good job of figuring out what the rates ought to be or how they can
be fair. And, you know, people that can't afford it, we're going to have some way, I'm
sure, that kids and families that are low income are going to still be able to use that.
And so, we're going to work all those things out. There is a lot of work to do yet in how
we operate it, maintain it, and take care of it. The Committee spent a lot of time on it
and has gone over all these different aspects, and it didn't just...I'm sure you know, it
just didn't happen here today, there have been lots of hours put into it already and lots of
discussion, and we've had some real experts there to explain these operations to us.
So I'm, for one, really looking forward to that pool...also, COD....COD is going to
participate and, as I understand it, they're looking even at more than they originally did,
and so it's going to be a wonderful thing for the College of the Desert also and all kinds of
potential big events and national events that we could have there someday. We're
going to have diving boards that should bring in an NCAA national diving tournament.
You know, there's all kinds of potential, so I think it's going to be another jewel in the City
of Palm Desert's crown. And I would move approval.
JF Well, I'II go ahead and second approval on...everything that Councilman Kelly said.
couldn't have said it any better myself. The City of Long Beach actually builds a pool
once a year for one event that they find economically beneficial. They take a
hard -shelled pool, put it in a parking lot, a 50-meter pool, in the parking lot outside their
convention center, for a one weekend Olympic trial and make a fortune off of it and get
world-wide attention because of it, and they spend millions putting it together and then
they take it apart for one event. So when I heard our staff say the word "rare" I kind of
winced because this pool will hardly be rare. It'll be about as rare as our soccer field is
for soccer tournaments, let's put it that way. And by the way, we don't reserve space on
our soccer fields for picnics for families — it's for competition. We've got hundreds of
acres of parks for picnics, for families...we're about the most family -oriented city in the
Coachella Valley that I know of. The underserved community, in my opinion, is seeing
kids go to the Olympics that have one 25-yard pool in Palm Springs that they have to
drive 25 miles to to practice every day because there are not other intervening pools in
one of the hottest areas per capita in the United States. COD took down their pool
because they wanted to make other use of it. I think we can make an economic
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development boon out of this pool. I think we can serve our kids. National obesity is
the First Lady's priority now, and I don't know that I necessarily disagree with her. And
if you think about it, grass isn't all that different...I mean, water isn't all that different from
grass, it's just a different medium. It doesn't mean that you can't play water games on
smooth water. You don't have to have a 19-foot slide or a carnival ride for kids to sit
back and do nothing. They can actually swim in water and play with balls and do
miniature versions of relay races and games and all kinds of things. As you can
probably tell from how I'm speaking, I'm a little passionate about this because I spent 16
years in competitive diving, which I liked as a sport, but I also watched water polo,
watched swimming, long course, short course, I watched people work out at noon time
as opposed to jogging because it was lower impact on their knees, I saw seniors
swim....there are so many uses to a pool that it's not funny. I have no doubt that we'll
get our 60% back, and that will be on a par with what we spend with other things. And
perhaps the thing I'm most excited about, and I know most of you weren't here, but
maybe it came through the Planning Commission, is we wanted to beef up our pool
safety regulations a couple months ago and have more options to prevent accidental
drowning, and here we have a beautiful opportunity to partner with The Red Cross to
teach lifesaving, to teach water safety instruction, to better bring awareness to our
parents and to our children about how to safely use water, and we can be the catalyst
and the hub for all of that. So, I agree with Councilman Kelly. This will be one of the
missing jewels in our crown and has been for a long time, and it will be an excellent
situation by the date grove in the back end of our park, fully utilizing the rest of our
acreage. And I'm excited to be a second to the motion, and with that, I'II turn it back
over to the Mayor.
CF I concur with everything that's been said. I would hope that we could find an
appropriate height for the play structures. Also, I'm a little bit concerned about the
lights but do have faith and trust in the company that we have contracted with to guide us
through the process. Equipment room air conditioning — I know out here our current
batteries last a short amount of time, and so I would like you to take a look at that, if you
would, please. Right now we do have a motion and a second to approve City Council
Resolution 2010-21, and I call for a voice vote. All in favor...
JMB Aye
JF Aye
RSK Aye
RAS Aye
CF Aye. Motion passes unanimously. Thank you so much, and now I'II call for
adjournment.
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For purposes of clarification:
MARCH 24, 2010
Commissioner DeLuna moved to waive further reading and adopt Planning Commission
Resolution No. 2525, approving a new Aquatic Center and adopting a Mitigated Negative
Declaration of Environmental Impact for the project. Motion was seconded by Commissioner
Tanner and carried by a 5-0 vote.
Councilman Kelly moved to waive further reading and adopt City Council Resolution No.
2010 - 21, approving a new Aquatic Center and a Mitigated Negative Declaration of
Environmental Impact for the project located at 73-510 Fred Waring Drive. Motion was
seconded by Mayor Pro Tem Ferguson and carried by a 5-0 vote.
VII. ADJOURNMENT
Upon a motion by Councilman Spiegel, second by Mayor Pro Tem Ferguson, and with
the concurrence of the Planning Commission, Mayor Finerty adjourned the meeting at
4:56 p.m.
M. CONNOR LIMONT, CHAIR
PALM DESERT PLANNING COMMISSION
ATTEST:
RACHELLE D. SENCITY CLER
CITY OF PALM DESERT, CALIFORNI
LAURI AYLAIAN, SECRETARY
CI 'YFI R Y,MAY
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