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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPrelim Minutes - City 03/15/2004I - A PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MONDAY, MARCH 15, 2004 — 10:00 A.M. CIVIC CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBER I. CALL TO ORDER Mayor Spiegel convened the meeting at 10:00 a.m. II. ROLL CALL Present: Councilmember Jean M. Benson Mayor Pro Tem Buford A. Crites Councilman Jim Ferguson Councilman Richard S. Kelly Mayor Robert A. Spiegel Also Present: Carlos L. Ortega, City Manager/RDA Executive Director David J. Erwin, City Attorney (arrived at 10:35 a.m.) RobertW. Hargreaves, Deputy City Attorney(presentfrom 10:00 a.m. to 10:35 a.m.) Homer Croy, ACM for Development Services Rachelle D. Klassen, City Clerk Philip Drell, Director of Community Development Paul S. Gibson, Director of Finance/City Treasurer III. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE - Mayor Robert A. Spiegel IV. INVOCATION - Councilman Jim Ferguson V. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS - A Mr. James Lewis, Mr. Charles Ellis, and Mr. Tom Noble spoke relative to the General Plan. Please see comments under Section VII, Public Hearing Item A below. PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 VI. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. MINUTES OF THE ADJOURNED REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS OF FEBRUARY 26, FEBRUARY 27, AND MARCH 3, 2004. Councilman Ferguson moved to, by Minute Motion: 1) Approve the minutes of February 26, 2004, as amended to reflect that Councilman Kelly's comments on page 42 referred to "office complexes" instead of apartment complexes; 2) continue the Minutes of February 27, and March 3, 2004. Motion was seconded by Councilmember Benson and carried by a 5-0 vote. VII. PUBLIC HEARING A. CONSIDERATION OF A COMPREHENSIVE GENERAL PLAN UPDATE AND FINAL ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT FOR THE CITY OF PALM DESERT, CALIFORNIA Case No. GPA 01-04 (City of Palm Desert, Applicant) (Continued from the meetings of January 15, January 29, February 5, February 26, February 27, and March 3, 2004). The following is a verbatim transcript of this public hearing: Key RAS Mayor Robert A. Spiegel JL Jim Lewis RSK Councilman Richard S. Kelly BAC Mayor Pro Tem Buford A. Crites CE Charles Ellis TN Tom Noble RDK Rachelle D. Klassen, City Clerk JMB Councilmember Jean M. Benson PD Phil Drell, Director of Community Development JC John Criste, Terra Nova Planning & Research, Palm Springs, CA CLO Carlos L. Ortega, City Manager RAS This is a public hearing. I have two cards...that wish to speak...Mr. Jim Lewis JL Morning, Mr. Mayor and Council. James Lewis, 43-210 Silk Tree Lane, Palm Desert. I was kind of amazed at the revelation of a new plan that has so quickly and easily overshadowed the work of the General Plan Advisory Committee and the Planning Commission's efforts, as Palm Desert has such important responsibility to its citizen committees, and then to see their work set aside so easily, I wonder if anyone should put any effort sometimes. Of course, that's what we're all about, right? We work together and come to 2 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 consensus, compromise sometimes. It makes me wonder if some on the Council that did not take part in the GPAC meetings read individual meeting minutes to see how hard the group worked at building a consensus, and some would not call it a consensus, but I think we went around it so...in such a way that I think we can say we built a consensus to what you have in your hands, or had in your hands...the complaints by developers during the meetings that were (inaudible) transformed themselves into promising proposals at the Planning Commission meeting, after they went back to work and took a second look at their alternative to let the market drive the development in the northern sphere. We as a community spent much time, discussion, fundraising, land acquisition, to provide for indigenous animals, insects, lizards, wild flowers, weeds, and stray cats and dogs, and rightly so. But it makes someone as myself, especially with my vocation, wonder why we can't do so for our fellow man and woman. We must pay respect and take care of our hillsides, our mountains, our dunes, our natural resources. To do otherwise would be irresponsible, if not criminal. We must keep those with a hidden agenda or those seeking personal profit from impinging on those discussions. But when it comes to future students and workers in our own community, who we have already committed to having at a college and businesses is totally and equally irresponsible and criminal. We as a city are legally and morally and ethically required to provide affordable housing for those we expect to be educated and work in our community with us. The comments by one that future students of the college should find housing in Cathedral City, Indio, Coachella, etc., and take the bus is equivalent to Marie Antoinette quoting the famous and fabled line "let them eat cake". Someone even opined that neighboring cities and public transportation take the brunt of the future need for getting students to and from the college and workers to their jobs. But a few people have the foresight to envision having enough quality, affordable housing to limit the need for requiring transportation at all and its negative effects on our environment. I recently attempted to assist my administrator at the mission in acquiring low income housing that Palm Desert is so famous for, and rightly so...they do the best job in this valley. However, with two years of continual income and an excellent work reference, she and her college attending husband could not pass the application process for housing at any of our facilities. There happens to be a vast, invisible, and often uncrossable expanse between those coming out of rehabilitation agencies such as Martha's Village, ABC, and the Coachella Valley Rescue Mission, and even the lowest of income housing projects within even the lowest of income housing projects, we should be ashamed at our lack of compassion on these citizens as well as the future students of our State college, and I reiterate, Palm Desert does the best job, I believe, in this valley, in this area. However, there is still a...an expanse there that there are some that cannot reach across. Do we want only the naming rights to the university and not its responsibilities? It makes me wonder what other 3 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 JF interests have driven alternatives such as this to be so easily and quickly considered. Do we have yet another opportunity here to allow those interests to detract us from our responsibility as a community and as human beings to ignore the future needs around us and its citizens? To not responsibly plan for the future needs in this remaining area in Palm Desert in lieu of low density resorts and developments is tantamount, I would say, to possibly prejudice and arrogance. We are capable enough as a people in Palm Desert to establish a balance between protecting the quality of life for our destination resort lifestyle and the growing diverse population here in Palm Desert. I urge you to act in the best interest of our community and the needs of its current and future citizens and students. Please accept the land use element as proposed by the General Plan Advisory Committee. Thank you very much. Mr. Lewis, I've got a...perhaps a little observation for you. It seems like a lot of your comments are based upon assumptions that I don't frankly see here. Your plan, your committee...you served on the General Plan Advisory Committee...recommended a net of 6,009 residential units. JL Yes, sir. JF When it went to... JL I believe so. JF ...well, that's what, at least my map says, the GPAC was. When it came out of the Planning Commission, that recommendation had been reduced by 1700 units... JL Right. JF ...to 4300... JL Which I don't agree with either. JF I gathered that from your comments. I think that there were those on this Council that agreed with the GPAC recommendation. I think it's equally fair to say that there are those on the Council that agreed with the Planning Commission recommendation and thought it perhaps should have gone further in reducing the dwelling units. To get around that impasse, we have created a Council alternative that takes all medium and high density and creates it with a medium density with a density bonus, which on the high end pushes that number back up to 5700 units, which is within 300 of what GPAC originally recommended. 4 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RSK 59 JL Right, but it does not... RSK That's six thousand. JL I'm sorry. JF Excuse me? JL What I believe it does not do is create enough of an impetus for future decisions to be made in that area toward the higher density level, but it gives too much...again, this is a framework, and I believe it's a framework, and I kept reminding some of our Committee members that it was only a framework, but as a framework, it needs to be strong enough to show that this is what the community is looking toward for the future. If we...each time we limit that in some way, it gives latitude, possibly too much latitude in these areas...for example, the hillside developments...you know, there's such a diverse discussion on those. And, you know, people on both sides, you know, they want the limitation or you want the latitude...I'm sure some of you would agree that too much latitude is too much area for interpretation by future decisions. JF A future Council can amend the General Plan as well. JL Yes. JF We can't lock their hands. JL But it's a little bit more like a...harder to do... JF What we did do is we crafted a set of criteria that gave incentives for high density, but intelligent high density. That is not shoe boxes of apartments but open space, architectural creativity, proximity to public transportation, proximity to schools, parks...most of the criteria that allow us to qualify for the housing tax credit program for the State of California, which provides additional monies to build these things, and I think there was probably more than a modicum of effort on behalf of all of us to make sure that we provided affordable housing for people in this Plan, recognizing that the only way to get a consensus was to provide the flexibility that... JL Which I believe the GPAC did...I don't believe at any time the GPAC, anyone on the GPAC, was looking at shoe boxes. We were looking at planned community versus as some members on the Committee were saying let the 5 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 market drive it. If we let the market drive it, we all know what'll happen, it will be just haphazard building here and there, but planned community. And part of that planning is allowing for enough affordable housing for the needs in the future community there. And I...you know...the more we go along here, the more limitations I believe we're seeing. RAS Mayor Pro Tem Crites BAC We have a set of criteria that Mr. Ferguson mentioned in terms of what you have to do, and if you qualify under those things... JL Qualify for the... BAC High density. JL High density. BAC Right. JL I meant the other way around. BAC Not only do you end up with high density in what was formerly high density, but you also potentially end up with high density in what was formerly medium density. JL Yes, sir. BAC What specific issues would you like to have addressed and/or changed so that this reflects, from your perception, the kinds of commitments you think a city ought to have. I mean, I listened to the rhetorical flourishes about not doing things for people and the yadadada and this and that and so forth, which is all fine and dandy, and now here we are putting together the final part of the general plan...what specific things help you in terms of a comfort level. JL BAC JL BAC To have the Council endorse a...embrace a general plan land use element that gives the greatest latitude toward the needs of that area, which is high density, higher density planned community. And that's what we think we have done... Yes, but... If you don't think we have done that... 6 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 JL RAS But you come back from that to some degree...to a small degree, yes, I want...l'm just trying to come back to the place where we were...that there's less latitude to digress from that higher density planned community that we were looking at. This morning I commented and was written up in the Desert Sun that the general plan is not sealed, signed in blood. I really meant to say that it wasn't cut in stone, which was better than blood. Anyway... JL Or set in concrete. RAS Yeah...well, stone is better than concrete. And it isn't, and what you see in the general plan when we're finished with it...20 years from now it will probably not look a heck of a lot like what is in the general plan today. The general plan 20 years ago that was made by the City...our city doesn't look anything like it now. And there's reason for that. That's the way the growth developed. The same thing's going to be true with our general plan here. There's no one that does a better job with affordable housing in this entire valley than the City of Palm Desert. ?? Exactly RAS There's no one that does a better job providing money to buy land in the mountains and the open areas for endangered species and to keep our mountains empty of homes...no one does a better job. So 1 think...I resent the fact that you said that we were not doing a good job. JL RAS JL Sir, I'm sorry if that's the way it came across. Not that we're not doing it, it's just that what I feel the GPAC gave the Planning Commission, the Council, gave the parameters that were fiercely batted about to such a degree that it gave the lat...you know, that provided the necessity that we saw in the future, which is not here now, but it's going to be there in the future. It may be 20 years before the need is there. And what I'm trying to communicate is to back away from that to the degree that I think we have...in fact, and Mr. Ferguson said that it came back further and you actually brought it back...with latitude to some degree. And what I'm saying is I feel that what the GPAC gave was more strongly communicating the commitment that the City has to that area. And also, when you said that in name only, is that why we have the college out there? Well, I just, you know... 7 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 (Inaudible) RAS JL RAS Excuse me, we bought 200 acres for CalState, the City of Palm Desert... Yes. ...for CalState San Bernardino, or they wouldn't be here today, number one. Number two, the overall plan for CalState San Bernardino Palm Desert Campus eventually calls for housing for students (inaudible)...I don't know how many, it hasn't been decided yet, it hasn't come to the Council, but all...you're saying that we're not providing anything for them. JL No... RAS (Inaudible) and that's not true. JL I don't mean to infer that we are not providing anything at all. What I am...my fear and frustration is that we are backing away from something that a group of people felt was necessary. I'm also coming from the fact that I'm having a lot of frustration with another city with their desire not to allow expanded services for needy people, and so combine...these two things combined...you know, I feel that we as a community need to make a statement, and the statement is we will provide for these people. RAS Okay, thank you very much. JF We have one recommendation from the City committee, a majority of which felt this was a preferable plan...certainly it wasn't unanimous. JL Yes, sir. JF And we've got a recommendation from another citizen committee, which is our Planning Commission, which also wasn't unanimous. And those two advisory bodies are as far as the east is from the west, and so as a Council we're trying to be mindful of both of our citizen advisory committees, our experience and history with the City, and try to come up with a map moving forward that accommodates everybody's concerns, and that necessarily will not mean that we have an exact blueprint of what GPAC recommended, but we're pretty close. JL RAS And I apologize if there...in any way I communicated that we (inaudible) we are doing the best job. But you said criminal...I heard that word. That offended me. Anyway... 8 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 JL That if we don't...that if we do not provide adequate housing, that it would be irresponsible if not criminal. We do have a legal obligation, and that's...you know, Mr. Crites said rhetorical flourish here...I'm sorry... RSK You used the word criminal. JL Pardon? RSK You used the word criminal. JL Yes, sir. RSK In other words, if we do what you...if we don't do what you said, we're criminals...I don't quite buy that. JL We must pay respect to take care of our hillside, mountains, dunes, and natural resources...I'm sure Mr. Crites would agree, to do otherwise would be irresponsible if not criminal. BAC Probably three quarters of the things that the General Plan Advisory Committee looked for in the North Sphere mixed use issues, where commercial should be, where service industrial should be, and all the rest of that...are also in the current version of the general plan. So I would think that it may not be accurate to say that we have ignored... RAS That we threw out the (inaudible) BAC Exactly, that we threw out the work of the citizens committee...I think probably more than 75% of it...of what we are probably going to pass is identical with their recommendations. And in the 25°A) that remains, I perceive that we have something that is much closer to their vision than, as an example, the Planning Commission's vision...by my bias, it happens to be (inaudible) colleagues can agree or disagree. So I think we have studied with considerable detail the thoughts that folks had over (inaudible) JL I agree, sir. BAC Thank you. RAS Okay, thank you very much. Mr. Ellis... CE Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. Charles Ellis, 77-363 Sky Mesa Lane, Indian Wells, California. I'm an attorney representing Bernard DeBonne. I wrote to you on Friday, and I hope that you got a chance to take 9 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 a look at that letter. Specifically, Mr. DeBonne is concerned about his 20- acre parcel located on the north side of Avenue 35 between Monterey Avenue and the extension of Dinah Shore. Previously that property enjoyed a commercial designation, and under Alternative D dated March 4, 2004, it's proposed that it be a medium residential designation with a high density residential overlay. Mr. DeBonne opposed that designation for the obvious reason that his property will be surrounded on all sides by industrial and commercial uses. And he thinks that would be extremely difficult to develop as a medium residential parcel and that, although he recognizes certainly the need to create residential uses in your general plan to accommodate future housing needs, that he thinks his parcel is not quite appropriate and would render it very unattractive to the development community for many, many years to come. It would be a difficult sale to try to create quality residential when it's surrounded on three sides by industrial and commercial uses. RAS Thank you very much. BAC I have just a quick...excuse me... RSK I just want to be positive on my map here what parcel (inaudible)...this one (inaudible) that was zoned originally as... CE Commercial RSK Industrial...Planning Commission industrial (inaudible) I've got to find where it's different (inaudible) BAC Mr. Kelly, I can resolve that issue for you, I think. RSK Okay. BAC That was one of our discussions at our last meeting when we talked about what are the various places in the North Sphere, if we so chose, that we might have more medium density housing, and it was noted that that corner of that corner of that isosceles triangle is...does not have any current development... RSK Oh, it was something that was far enough away from the... BAC Right. RSK ...railroad tracks...I remember the discussion...I thank you, sir. 10 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 BAC And I would note just for the record, Mr. Ellis, that the statement you made that it would be surrounded on four sides by...is, as I said to you on the phone, was incorrect, and I say to you again this morning, it is not true. CE Councilman Crites, I said it was surrounded on three sides, and the fourth side is Avenue 35. BAC I believe you began with four sides. CE Okay, if I did, I stand corrected. It's on three sides by industrial and commercial and Avenue 35 to the south, which means it's completely surrounded by non-residential uses. BAC I believe the land immediately to the south is medium density residential. CE Right, except for Avenue 35 being between. BAC Well (inaudible) street, if that's the case, lots of residential is surrounded by something not residential because we have Tots of places which have streets around. CE Well, streets I'm certain, exist to divide parcels all over the City and always will, and there'll be more in the future. I think the concern, however, is the viability of the parcel if everything around is industrial/commercial, it's very difficult to sell to try and bring in a developer and to get residents who want to live next to industrial. BAC I respect that point of view. Thank you, sir. RAS Thank you very much. CE Thank you. RAS Anyone else wish to address the Council at this time? TN Good morning. My name is Tom Noble, 74-075 El Paseo, Suite A-3, in Palm Desert. I have very brief comments. I'd like to make them...I'd just like to ask a point of order...are we not going to have (inaudible) today to be able to see the properties that were discussed? JF This is just oral communications. RAS Yeah, this is just oral communications...you can have it later on. 11 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 TN Okay, is this the appropriate, time, then on my particular piece of property to say a couple additional things? BAC Say it. RAS Say it. TN Okay. I just, for the record, I'd like to incorporate my prior letters, two to Mr. Drell, September 15th and October 7th of '03 and my letter to Mayor Spiegel of March 3`d of this year. I've said all that I can say as far as the reason why that particular 29-acre parcel is not appropriate for residential uses. I won't bore you with reiterating those. I did deliver today, and I apologize for the lateness, this letter I had done by Margo Thibeault at Mainiero, Smith and Associates dealing with some of the general plan, EIR issues. In essence, she raises the sound issues and especially in light of the fact that the area is questionable at this point in time for residential as it is and with the additional traffic that will be coming on Dinah Shore and the elevated Portola access to the freeway. She concluded it's not an appropriate for residential. JF Mr. Noble? TN Yes, sir. JF I apologize, this was sitting on my chair when I walked in, and l haven't had a chance to read the four -page letter, but in essence, are you suggesting that if the area that we previously discussed gets zoned residential, you're going to be challenging it under our EIR? TN No, I haven't suggested that at all. JF Okay, well you pointed out all the deficiencies of our current EIR. TN Well, this letter was written by a consultant. I don't think I've ever raised that issue myself. I saw it for the first time at 9:30 this morning. It dawned on me late last week that we've been standing here to some degree as lay people, not relying on professional planning, professional planners, and 1 thought 1 would get an opinion, and I thought perhaps we should hear from the City's professional staff and the City's consultant as to what their take on this might be. JF Okay. TN And just a couple other comments without reiterating things. The subject property not only would have difficulties noise -wise developed as residential, 12 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 if it were developed as commercial/business park, it would offer a further sound barrier to the residential which will be developed to the south of Dinah Shore. The numbers are in Ms. Thibeault's letter, but in essence we're going to see that the projections for the year 2020 are that the Portola Avenue extension north of Gerald Ford will carry 48,000 cars a day, and Dinah Shore in this area will carry about 37,000. That's somewhat equivalent to adding two Fred Waring Drives contiguous to this area, with one of them elevated with no real way to mitigate the sound. And I've said all I can say, and I appreciate the time. If there are any questions, I'd be happy to try and answer them; otherwise, I'll... RAS Any questions of Mr. Noble? Thank you very much. TN Could I ask just one point of order, then, please? After the vote, is there opportunity for clarification as far as how the decisions will be implemented (inaudible) before was that the way the commercial is shown on this current map...excuse me, the way the residential is shown, it would completely block access to the remaining industrial portion without going through residential...l'd like to know if there's some mechanism for discussing that should you decide to add the residential. RAS Thank you. TN Thank you. RAS Anybody else wish to address the Council at this time? And now we'll go to the approval of the Minutes. JF Move approval. RDK Please continue the 27' and 3rd...we're not quite finished with those...we did have the ones for the 26' with your packet, but we're still completing the 27' and the March 3rd meetings. RAS Alright...what we're looking at are the Minutes of the... JF 26" RAS 26". JF I'll move approval. RSK Comment. 13 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RAS Yes, sir. RSK I have a correction...let me make sure I have the right...you have the Minutes of the...is this the 26th? JF Yes. RAS Yes. RSK On page 42, the middle of the page, and my comment...and about the fifth sentence down, or line down, where I said apartment house...I mean office complex, and right at the end of that sentence further...I said apartment house, and I meant...whatever I said, I meant office complex, so it would read..."If I lived on the south side of Santa Rosa and the proposal was to do an office complex on the north side and there'd be a driveway that entered somewhere else besides Santa Rosa and I'm thinking office complex at five o'clock most of them shut down..." so I would prefer it...so I said apartment house, I meant office complex. RAS So we'll amend the Minutes. Now we have a motion to approve the Minutes with that amendment. Is there a second? JMB Second. RAS Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. RAS Thank you. Now we'll turn the procedure over to our Planning Director, Mr. Drell. Again, this is a public hearing. PD Good morning. I guess we can...we have a few things...you have the staff report in which we tried to cover everything...there were a few things that came up that we hadn't included in the staff report...in order of things to discuss, do you want to talk about the north of 35th, Dinah Shore, residential/industrial office park issue first, get that resolved? RAS PD RAS (Inaudible) excuse me, the land use should be resolved... Correct. ...and then we'll go on to the rest of the... 14 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 PD And I have a few other little land use issues that we left hanging that I also want to cover. JF A quick clarification. PD Sure. JF I misspoke because I was working off of Alternative B instead of Alternative D when (inaudible) Mr. Lewis...the difference between GPAC's recommendation and the current proposal in front of the Council is 14 units, so you had 6,009, we have 5,993, so we're talking about a net difference of 16 units from the original GPAC recommendation. Sorry I misspoke. PD And I guess we're going to deal with that first. In responding to Mr. Lewis's comment about the City's commitment, we had talked about when we created the high density overlay, that we would include an overall goal of producing at least the number of housing units that was included in our existing general plan which is the four thousand and, I think, thirty-six was the number, but...and so we would be...and John is going to have some Ianguage...or any other number you want to come up with, but we feel that's probably the...that that kind of in terms of the implementation of the high density overlay, the goal would be in implementing enough projects with varying densities to at least achieve that 4,000 units. If we want to have a goal that's bigger than that, then it can be bigger, but in the range that's now, it can be as low as (inaudible) reading glasses, 3892 and as high as the 5,900. So that's...that does articulate how to a certain degree as a goal how the overlay would work, and that...so, again, the... BAC Mr. Drell. PD Yes. BAC Whatever that number is, once that number is reached that does not in any way have any impact on the approval process of projects. PD No...I mean... BAC Then that needs to be... PD ...the numbers should be at least... BAC Okay, and that...and that it should note... PD Correct. 15 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 BAC ...that it has no biasing factor... PD Correct. BAC ...against that... PD The goal and (inaudible) response, 1 don't think it would be necessarily desirable to reach the 5900 units, that all of that land was high density, I think the goal inherently is...the reason why we designated medium density in the original plan was we thought having medium density projects was important, so...l think it has to be that in the high density overlay, the goal is that there is a reasonable balance of medium and high density uses with the total unit production to be at least a number. JF Well, I don't know that it's fair to say that there's absolutely no bias...) mean it's like meeting out milestones under our Western States Poverty Center stipulation...once you've made your target, you have a little bit more flexibility of where you can put stuff because you're not held to the letter of the law. So for me, you know, saying at a minimum you have to do this as per California State law, and our plan is currently below that, and so you're going to have to do some 700 units no matter what... PD Correct. JF ...and then after you've hit that point, you can be a little bit more flexible with medium and high density and pick and choose what you like and... BAC 1 guess that comes right back to the issue of if we have a set of guidelines, some developers will choose to try to work with those guidelines for high density, some will choose not to and prefer low...medium density and such things like that, but if somebody chooses to do that and meets that set of issues, I don't think there should be an ability to say no to it because we've hit a number. JF Or conversely, if somebody comes in with medium density in a place that we think would score well for high density in the tax credit program... BAC That's their choice... JF ...they shouldn't get an automatic entitlement to medium density either. BAC No. 16 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 JF (Inaudible) And, Mr. Criste, does the way you're drafting these policy guidelines leave us the flexibility to say no to an otherwise appropriately filed application for medium density? PD Okay, do you want to deal with the north of Dinah Shore and 35th industrial/residential...what is your pleasure...you've heard the testimony. BAC PD JF I just have a question. We have heard from several land owners or representatives, we've heard from a paid consultant who surprisingly...or she surprisingly enough agrees with the land owner, which is not to demean Mainiero Smith but, I mean, the obvious is the obvious, that we wouldn't have had this letter, I suspect, had it not agreed. So...you're the planner...what is your and your staffs professional opinion about desirability of both/either/neither of these pieces of land? As it came out of Planning Commission, staff was comfortable with the lands designated residential given the specific designations of high density and medium density and low. Can these sites ultimately accommodate residential? The answer, I believe, is yes. The nature of our commercial/industrial, how we deal with the boundaries of those projects, changes to make sure that at those boundaries they're compatible, but we're not talking about, you know, steel mills and coal smelting...whatever it is, we're not thinking about belching smoke stacks and chemical factories...we're talking about things that look...the buildings are looking more and more like office buildings, even more so than we're even seeing on Cook Street, the projects that are coming in. So, in terms of multi -family, with the proper design we can make those compatible. In terms of their comment that are these going to be the most desirable locations, in comparison to others, probably not. They might not be the first on a developer's list. They might be second or third, but I think with good design and careful attention to how we design the industrial, these can be acceptable in the future. Well, I guess one observation, then a question. The books on new urbanism that you would encourage me to read about mixed use and putting commercial with retail, with residential, seemed to suggest to me that this would be very workable if it was done appropriately... PD Correct. JF ...and, in fact, has been done in proximity to the Denver Airport, up in northern California and other fairly dense industrial/commercial type of uses do have residential...the 14 unit differential between GPAC and this 17 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 PD plan...how does that go down if both of these sites north of 42nd...or 35'h...are removed...the 20-acre parcel and Mr. Noble's parcel. Again...40 acres at approximately...I think we assumed at high density, 17 or 18 units per acre, so that's another 700 units...it would probably...well, it would go down about 700 units. JF So we would be right back down on 3300... PD Yeah, basically we go from...this is why it went up to the 3900 was the addition of these properties. They're both about 20 acres...again, remember, the bubbles are...general plans are general...we're talking roughly that number. JF Okay. ?? Go ahead. RSK Well, I guess a question for the Council...it seems like we've pretty much got a consensus here about the direction we're going...am I right in thinking that we're searching for some way to...without affecting the number of units...without penalizing anyone...looking for a way to either find another place for those or approve where they are, one or the other, kind of where we are... RAS I think that's pretty much where we are. We've already agreed on the part of the area that's north of Frank Sinatra, and this would be the last piece, is that correct? PD That's my understanding. RSK Then I had a comment here. In looking at the zoning we have there now, do have a reluctance to change somebody's zone to penalize them, but I also have a reluctance to give them a windfall profit. So in saying that and looking at this, we have that same area...we have benefitted them by changing the zones...seems to me there should be a balance so that...it seems like it's the same property...same properties are involved, at least one of them for sure, same owner, and originally they were both the same owner. RAS (Inaudible) BAC Any other comments from Council? A question. 18 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RSK One last question. What about this industrial I -BP that is just south of Dinah Shore over to the...near Cook? PD And....it's not Dinah Shore any more, they've named it something else, Technology... RSK Whatever, it becomes there...the one closest to the railroad tracks, and then there's one that curves through there... PD Right. RSK Gerald...it's Gerald Ford...it's just north of Gerald Ford, but we have another Dinah Shore or Tamarisk or whatever we call it these days down there...there's a section in there that's industrial... PD Correct. RSK What's wrong with that for possible exchange of residential... PD That was our...kind of our goal with the mixed use that you see...to incorporate residential there... RSK Well, it's right next to a mixed use one. PD I guess...you know, that was one (inaudible) area until (inaudible) RSK That was in what they call residential study zone. PD Back in the original general plan. RSK In the original. PD Correct. I hate to suggest anything, but if in fact we're going to have a park, having some residential adjacent to the park... RSK This would be just east of the park. PD Just east of the park is not, you know, out of the question. RAS Buford, you have... BAC Just a quick one. At one time we had even chatted about potential dual designations... 19 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 PD Correct. BAC From a planner's perspective, is it a dumb, great (inaudible) idea... PD Where we've dual designated...obviously from a property owners point of view, it's better to be dual designated than to be designated with what you don't want, so it at least leaves the door open for a plan for us to review either industrial if you're considering both...in essence, keeping almost the designation that you see there in the old general plan, which was this industrial with a residential study zone. BAC From your point of view, though. PD I don't...I don't care one way or another. It...obviously it does give the developer...if you're intent on...I would think he would be happier with a dual designation of...based upon, you know, how things evolve in the future than the...at least on its face, preclusion of industrial, which is what we're looking at right now. We've lived with it before, it's worked out. RAS Jean JMB Well, I think (inaudible) RDK I don't think your microphone was on...the light on the dais, was that off? You might...could you restate those comments? BAC It might be a good idea to stick a map up right now so that everybody has the same data in front of them when we're chatting about something. RAS Did you buy a pointer or not? PD We had one...what happened to it? The answer is no...we had one, and it was Ioaned...I forgot where...I gave it back, and... RAS See if we can afford one before...as long as I'm Mayor... PD Okay. RAS I'll be out in December... PD Sure. RAS You've got about 8 months, so... 20 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 (Inaudible) PD ...regional park site. RSK I don't know who all was here, but I know Mr. Drell was here back at one time when we hired a real fancy San Francisco consultant to help us plan the North Sphere, the same area we're working with, and we got into these same kind of issues, and we took that $500,000 plan that we had and put it in the trash. PD JF Again, our...our mixed use, you know, some people are nervous about it...is kind of a dual designation, although we don't really have it currently applied as industrial office park residential as it's now defined...it's more mixed office commercial than industrial business park. Just piggybacking on Councilmember Benson's point, and trying to follow your logic, Phil, about self containing our employment base or at least trying to, we have an extremely hopefully high intense use for the university, we have an even more urgent intense use with WalMart and...Super WalMart and Sam's Club...if we do get a Lowe's in on Gerald Ford and Monterey, we'll have an additional employment generator, so to speak, and then we have the industrial park, which hopefully one day develops out and folks are going to want to live there. If you assume for the moment that the campus will have on -campus housing, and we have some high density with the overlay across the street, that seems to be taken care of...putting the two pieces, the DeBonne and the Noble residential, where they're at, it seems to me to put folks right where they ought to be if they ever do want to walk to work, which I think probably is not a bad goal for us to try to put forth and give us the 14 unit difference with GPAC, which I think ought to at least give some deference to the folks that served on that committee. And if it doesn't work out as Mr. Noble predicts, and there is a development, and it doesn't go forward the way that we see at this point or hope, there's nothing to prevent him or DeBonne from coming back and saying we tried, it doesn't work. But my personal problem with mixed use is if you're going into it with two developers that say they don't want to do residential, and you give them the option of doing something else, there's a realistic probability that they're going to come back with a residential plan is almost none. So it may make us feel good and it's very Hegelian and we've got synthesis, but we don't do a darned thing to promote housing. RAS So am I interpreting that as a motion to approve the plan that's up there? JF Well, I'm going to let everybody have their say, but at the appropriate time, yes. 21 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RAS We're going to get to that point (inaudible) RSK I was going to address some other concerns here about... RAS Please. RSK ...the statement that GPAC had consensus...well, I don't see that because I had concerns all through...I attended most all of the meetings, and I expressed my concerns every time. My concerns were ignored. If I'm sitting on GPAC, and I'm a Council representative, and I have concerns, I would think if GPAC wanted to...expected it to be approved at the Council level without me objecting to it would be kind of ridiculous because l told them over and over and over that I didn't agree with certain things that they were doing. One of the things that I was really concerned with...I thought that most of the people sitting on GPAC had special interests, and I didn't see the average resident that lives on the south side of Palm Desert who lives and is concerned with our city, I didn't see it there. But 1 kept thinking that they could come up with something innovative and different, and I think what we came up with with the seven criteria is a way to reach what the objective is of providing housing, at the same time giving developers guidelines to do something special for us and not just give them 20 units per acre without any guidelines of what we expected to be built and how it was to be built on that 20 acres. And so to me, the Council has done exactly what they're elected to do. They've come up with something, and it seems to me that the plan did get pretty much consensus...it seems to be that way with the Council, but we've provided the housing with guidelines for the developer of what we want to see and that we have planned something that will give the developer an opportunity to do something in our city that is good and in keeping with the City of Palm Desert to date. RAS Thank you. JMB I really take offense at the fact that the GPAC committee wasn't representative of the City because this Council appointed them. We went through 40 applicants and came up with those that were on there that represented what would be built out in that area, from the teachers to the college to land developers to...l don't know who all...citizens on there. When the GPAC plan was finally approved, it was a unanimous, with one dissent, which was Cindy Finerty, as she did the same on the Planning Commission. So I really take offense that the community didn't have input. It didn't go...all the meetings were open, people could come...they were all advertised in the paper, and nobody came, as they do every other thing we have...we advertise it, but the people still don't come. And to say that you put input in 22 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 and were voted against, if that's the way the vote goes, that's the want it went. So... RAS Councilman Kelly. RSK I expressed a concern way up front, and I expressed it to the Council at a Council meeting that I thought there should be a survey to ask the average citizen what they wanted. The Council left it up to GPAC to decide whether there would be a survey or there wouldn't be a survey, so it's no surprise to anybody that I didn't...from the very beginning, from the very outset, that I thought there should be a survey so that we could reach the average citizen that's not going to read the paper. It's just like the general plan meeting we're having here...who are the people that are here and interested, the people that own land in the North Sphere. Do you see any average citizens out there that don't have any concern or investment? No...not you either, Jim, you have a vested interest, you have a job and you work at a certain profession, and that's fine, that's good, that's what it's all about, but...I also have what I think is a responsibility to do what I think, and I realize everybody doesn't agree with me. I try to represent the citizens that I think were the ones that elected me, and I know everybody doesn't agree with me, and I don't blame Councilmember Benson. You have a right to take offense to that, but that's the way I see it. BAC I would second Councilman Ferguson's motion. RAS We have a motion and we have a second. And for everybody's edification, it's the map we're looking at... JF Alternative D. RAS Hmm? JF Alternative D. RAS Yeah, Alternative D, which is the map that's on the screen. Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. RSK I'd like to make one last comment. You know, I voted yes, but this is far from what I would like to see myself. I think that I went...you know, I made a compromise with some of my fellow Councilmembers so that we could have a unanimous vote. 23 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RAS Thank you. I appreciate that. Alright, we'll probably lose most of our audience now. PD Moving on. RAS This is additional land use that we have to decide on? PD (Inaudible) clarification (inaudible)... at the corner of Country Club and Monterey... BAC A note...I think the General Plan Committee and our staff and the Planning Commission and folks, my colleagues up here, have really worked hard to try and define something we can all be proud of. I just want to say thank you to everybody that's been working on this for all these years. RAS You are included in the thank you. BAC You know, I'm just saying, this is...I think we've done a good thing for our community. Thank you. JF There's a saying that everybody likes democracy until it works. It worked today. PD Okay, northeast corner of Monterey/Country Club. When we left this, there was a suggestion to the property (inaudible) looked at mixed use...we're showing it as mixed use...there's an annotation...in the staff report, we've included...to be included in the land use discussion of the general plan an annotation for all the mixed use areas with some guidance of what the kind of objection is, and in this case it would be a mixture of commercial and residential, and the residential would include the both the medium with the high density overlay, with the caveat that we're not looking for something with a grocery store. Does that kind of summarize what... RAS I think we said office professional. PD Okay, office professional, but say if it was a Walgreen's, which we've... RAS I think we'd have to take a look at that (inaudible) PD Yeah, which we've shown works real well with the one we put in on... JF I thought we made this a study zone... PD Okay. 24 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 JF ...along with the land up in south Palm Desert we were just going to (inaudible) PD It went back and forth. Again, it was never...there was never a definitive decision. RSK I'm a little bit hazy on what (inaudible) RAS Talking about across from the old Albertson's... PD The famous nine acres across the street from the old Albertson's. RSK Oh, Monterey and... PD Yeah. BAC Country Club. PD Again, it was never...there was a suggestion what do you think about mixed use...1 think that was the last statement to the property owner. JMB (Inaudible) RSK I thought we made that a study zone. JF I thought we made it (inaudible) BAC I thought it went to mixed use is where it went. The study zone didn't do anything, but (inaudible) PD (Inaudible) RSK Mixed use with... BAC With a notation that a major grocery store was not one of the things that we're "looking for." RSK Yeah, I remember that. BAC Yeah. JF It should be in our Minutes. RSK I read it just the other day. 25 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 PD Yeah, and that's basically...that was the last...but it was, it was never...there was never a motion or a vote, it was kind of a... RAS (Inaudible) BAC Okay, I'll throw it (inaudible) we'll at least have the (inaudible) that it be noted on the general plan as mixed use with a notation that a major grocery facility is not on the desirable list. RAS Is there a second? (Inaudible) RAS Please vote. PD Or a grocery store. Let me (inaudible)...we'll define that. RDK Motion carries 4-0, Councilman Ferguson absent. PD (Inaudible) I had a new map (inaudible) this is the issue of the office development at the corner of Sheryl and Cook and the...I want to go ask Mr. Croy...with the three lots on Sheryl across the street from the existing office on Cook, we are still recommending that that be OP. Relative to the discussion of the triangle, whether you want to make the decision now or not, we are recommending, and we are in discussions with the property owner on his position on parts of the triangle, that the area on Cook Street be designated for office professional, but the bulk of the triangle be changed to open space. RAS Well that's part of...weren't we going to trade him some land? PD In the latest discussion, and again, we're not actually going to trade him any land, we would designate a portion of his own property for OP right along Cook Street. The bulk of the property would be designated OP, 1 mean, open space, and there would be a dedication to the Rec and Park District. But, again, if you want to hold up on this until you go through that whole discussion... RAS PD Councilman Kelly. Maybe keep it a study zone, maybe that's a good (inaudible) 26 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RSK We absolutely can't do that. I think this brings up a point, that we're dealing with a specific piece of property in a general plan meeting, and it's something that's way too important to have just as a piece of something... RAS You're absolutely right. RSK ...it should be a separate item on a Council Agenda... PD Maybe that's a good place for a study zone. RAS Well, I don't know, but just leave it like it is now, and we won't worry about it in our general plan. PD Okay. RAS It's a single piece of property... PD That's fine. RAS ...it should come to us... PD How about the three lots on Sheryl? RAS Well, again, that's part of the same problem. The discussion was that we were going to give him one of those lots on Sheryl and trade it for... PD That's... RSK It's not the place to (inaudible) BAC Given that Sheryl is also a component of this, then maybe it would be appropriate to make the piece of land along Cook Street from Cook Street to Sheryl and from Sheryl back down to the Wash, that area being a study zone. That puts all that stuff into the...we'll look at it as a... PD That's fine. RSK (Inaudible) PD Okay. BAC And I would so move that. RSK Second. 27 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RAS Please vote. Anything else (inaudible) PD That concludes all the things that I have to say, so John can continue on... RAS The land use is decided for the City of Palm Desert. RSK Except the (inaudible) PD Do you want to go through the issues in the staff report (inaudible) RSK The actual looking at maps and talking about it is done so now we're going to look at the... RAS At the book. RDK Before you go on, could you cast your ballot again for that last motion...I apologize. RAS Please vote. RDK Councilmember Benson. Thank you. Motion carries by unanimous vote. RAS Thank you. Welcome. JC Good morning. We thought we would go over the rest of the items first in the staff report and get those out of the way, and then we can run through the elements that we discussed that we would do...environmental hazards and environmental resources. First of all, we wanted just to summarize a couple of points...for instance, changes that were entertained and did not move forward...for instance, the area along Fred Waring Drive back to Santa Rosa that has been left as is in the existing specific plan, and then with regard... RAS Where are you? JC I'm on page 1 of your...it should say March 15, 2004, staff report. And I was just referring to the Palma Village and Core Specific Areas and the office area we have from Fred Waring down to Santa Rosa and how we're allowing to continue to develop the Santa Rosa sides of those lots as parking to support the offices on the Fred Waring, that continues as is. The other was to provide a policy and a program with regard to that Alessandro parking area east of Monterey, north of 111, and so we've drafted a policy that reads that the City shall facilitate the redesign and construction of enhanced vehicular access and commercial serving parking on Alessandro Drive 28 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 extended between San Marcos and Monterey Avenue as set forth in the Commercial Core Specific Plan discussion in the land use element. PD Excuse me. It should be between Las Palmas and Monterey, not San Marcos. JC That's right. And to implement that, then we have a program that the essentially summarizes the design that you've settled on, and it is that the City shall coordinate with commercial business owners and residents backing onto Alessandro Drive between Las Palmas Avenue and Monterey Avenue and shall design and facilitate the construction of a 24-foot-wide two-way drive and one row of 90 degree parking along the north side of this right-of- way. RAS Is that the lane? JC That's the lane. Landscaping and decorative masonry wall shall also be incorporated into the design to buffer the residences from drive traffic and parking activities. San Marcos Avenue south of San Clemente Circle will be closed to automobile traffic. Public access for pedestrians, bicycles, and golf carts shall be maintained. The City shall pursue where feasible financial participation from the benefitting commercial property owners toward the cost of right-of-way acquisition, construction, and maintenance of the improvements. And we have community development and public works and the RDA as responsible agencies. PD We should also add the Parking Authority. RAS Aren't these things that we've already agreed to? PD (Inaudible) JF This is just the formal language for incorporation into the element. The...excuse me...the next issue area is land use designations along Portola north and south of Fred Waring Drive, and we've been discussing this at some length to facilitate really the ability to widen Portola at critical locations, and the Council determined that the best thing to do in this area would be to assign a...essentially a dual designation of COP, which is our office professional designation, along with open space, so that...the idea being that if the property owners, the residents, wish to sell, the...a developer could come back with plans for office commercial on those lands. The City could also participate in some fashion if it wished by facilitating lot consolidation to make larger parcels more feasible for development and/or some kind of 29 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 dedication of open space along the public right-of-way could also be incorporated into part or whole of these parcels located along Portola. RAS I don't remember anything north of Fred Waring on Portola being designated office professional. RSK Well, I do remember the discussion because l was opposed to it. But that section right there north of Country...north of Fred Waring on the west side, and I was very much opposed to designating anything commercial there...1 thought it should all be open space if we were to go in there and purchase any of those properties to widen Portola, so whatever we're doing here, if we're going through here approving these item by item, I want to vote no on that one. RAS I think a lot of us would. PD My recollection was it was a 3-2 vote, but there was...you know, there is that area, and there's...it gets as deep as 90 feet in terms of the remainder parcels, and again...so it was thought that, you know, the same...you know, we have the option if we want to go ahead and pursue a program of acquisition for open space, this policy allows us to do that. If we... RSK Or it could just be left residential like it is. PD I don't... RSK And we would deal with it when we did something. PD I think the idea was that it was somewhat unfair of these people to hold the sword over their heads like we did the folks on Fred Waring. RSK The idea you proposed at the time was to put that in there to cause some kind of incentive to do something commercial, and your comment was that it had been successful other places, and I disagreed with it then. And 90 feet...and encouraging commercial in an area like that 1 think is just a terrible thing to do, and I still disagree with you about that. And I for one am not going to vote for any commercial in that location. JMB RSK JMB Well, we have commercial along Portola coming down past DeAnza, almost right up to DeAnza, already and that all backs up onto residential. Wider area also. Pardon? 30 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RSK PD A wider area to work with because you're not...you haven't cut the street there. You're not looking at widening the street. This one we're...the idea being that we're going to widen the street, we're going to take part of the property and then that would leave too much to have landscaping. Well, I don't know that that's true, but it's a lot wider up at the other end where we do have (inaudible) It would be roughly twice as wide as what you see on Fred Waring. And, again, from my point of view, I have no bias on this...the issue...what I do have a bias is leaving these property owners, who are severely impacted now, they have 45, 50 mile an hour traffic driving 18 inches away from their curb as they back out today. RSK We put commercial in there... PD Well, no, if you design commercial, you can get people in a sense positioned so they could drive front out, but, you know... RAS Mayor Pro Tem BAC (Inaudible) to that, and that is it notes in here that we would have "small residential scale office buildings." PD Remember, we... BAC That's what it says. PD Correct. BAC Now, do you define what we have along Fred Waring as being small residential scale office buildings? PD Some of them are, some of them aren't. BAC Then this thing...my point is that by the time we do what we need to do traffic wise, by the time we cut that back, then what people are going to come to tell us is the only way this pencils out as OP is by building all two-story office buildings because there's not enough footage in there to do that, and then all of a sudden...my point is, I'm not sure at least especially north of there that the widening of streets is compatible with enough land being left to achieve "small residential scale" which to me means one-story and it looks a whole lot like having a house along there. And I'm just...you can tell me I'm wrong, but I'm willing to wager money what we're going to have is that kind of oxy-two-story stuff that we have along Fred Waring. And if that's what 31 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 PD we...if that's what's meant, then the answer from this one Councilmember is no. And if all we're doing is creating OP where that's the only thing that would work, then why in the heck bother? The...under our code, you couldn't build two-story buildings on 90-foot deep lots. It's...our required setbacks would eliminate building them. Probably all you could build is a one-story building. But again, we can...we can approve whatever we like...you know, the Fox Homes building, the Dr. Abens dentist building, you know, there's examples of... BAC Alright. PD On Monterey...on Monterey...all those office buildings on Monterey are on...some of them are on Tots that are only 70 feet deep. BAC So those are...those buildings that are...would fit on remnants along Portola... PD Yes. For example, the ones on Monterey, the one-story where we vacated the streets, where they had the parking in the middle, one-story parking, one- story parking, those...that would be the only sort of arrangement that would work. RSK The residential's backing up... RAS Because you'd have more traffic. Let me ask you a question. Is there enough room to widen Portola to six lanes if you put in this one-story office professional? PD The...and what we need is a plan with that... RAS The answer, I think, is no. (Inaudible) RAS ...rhetorical question. The point... PD Well... RAS Let me finish, please. PD Okay. 32 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RAS The point that I'm trying to make is that we just approved 277 acres of business professional, industrial park, whatever you want to call it, in the North Sphere. Portola, in my humble opinion, when WalMart opens and Dinah Shore comes across, is going to be the way you're going to go there if you live in the City of Palm Desert. You're not going to go down Monterey. Consequently, if there's not enough room to make it six lanes, then I'm going to vote against office professional, and if a house does go on the market at fair value, in my humble opinion I think the City should start buying them. PD Okay, but...then we should...if we want to designate it open space and have a policy that we're going to buy up homes... RAS But you're going to have the same problem you had on Fred Waring, and any time that...any time a street changes its character, whether it's Fred Waring or its Portola, you've got a problem, and it has to be resolved. PD Correct. RAS Resolving it isn't putting commercial there where we're going to have to buy them out... PD (Inaudible) That's fine. Again...l'm not arguing with you. In that case, we should designate it as the remainder property as open space and have a policy that we will be...I mean, what I'm arguing against is...in 1990 we knew that Fred Waring was going to do something and so... RSK (Inaudible) that open space and establish a policy that we will purchase any houses that are for sale at market value. RAS Is there a second? BAC Now is this north of Fred Waring? RSK This is north.of Fred Waring... RAS North of Fred Waring. RSK ...on the west side. BAC Up to... PD It goes up to where Vineyards begins. 33 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RSK (Inaudible) If we even widened it (inaudible) to four lanes and put in a right turn lane there that should be a lot longer than the one is, the first two houses there's not going to be any 90 feet left, and it's not going to be...what's going to be...what is thought of to be too wide is going to be a very small part of that. PD The plan...I should run and get (inaudible) see what the plan was again...it might help to get the... RSK The idea was... PD The plan was in essence to lengthen the right turn lane all the way down so it doesn't get blocked by the through lanes... BAC Yup. PD ...and what it resulted was at the corner it was narrowed to 61 feet, and at Rancho Road it was about 91 feet and was 91 feet out to where the Vineyards begin. RSK All we're after is four lanes with good left turn and good right turn. PD Exactly. RSK And that'll take most of that property. PD Yes...well, it'Il...it will go from 61 feet to 91 feet. What's remaining if we want to landscape it, then we establish a policy to do that and retain it. But I think we should...we owe it to the property owners to tell us what our intentions are. RAS We've got a motion. Is there a second? I'll second it. Please vote. RDK Make sure I understand it and that it's for the record, okay, that's designating land north of Fred Waring along Portola on the western side, designate it as open space and acquiring homes as they become available? RAS Correct. RDK is that right? Thank you. PD (Inaudible) Okay, well... 34 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. PD This might be a good place for a dual designation, open space/R-1. It's... BAC That was the intention of the motion. PD Yes. RAS City Clerk, would you please add that to it? RDK Sure. RAS Thank you. PD And south of...south of Fred Waring the designation as we had discussed. BAC Just one person...I'd like to make sure that what we have in there is something that notes that we are looking for "small residential scale office buildings" because we're going to end up with everybody...well, not everyone, but a significant number of people wanting to put as much stuff as they possibly can, and I don't think that street needs a pile of two-story office buildings running down the side of (inaudible) PD And its language is included here...remember, we also created a language in the community design element as you recall that you adopted which designated these non -six -lane arterials to have a different design standard. RAS Alright. Where do we go now? RSK (Inaudible) was that voted? JC The, uh... RSK What was it? RDK (Inaudible) JC The next item had to do with the...making a provision and a statement in the general plan that would allow implement the desired enhancements of intersections along Portola north of Frank Sinatra. We had three locations that were identified by Council. One was at Gerald Ford and Portola, Frank Sinatra and Portola, and then a planned major intersection which is shown on the maps between Gerald Ford and Frank Sinatra that would connect the, eventually, the municipal golf course area to the proposed planned time 35 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 shares. In order to implement this, we found that policy 7 under the community design element served quite well, and so we drafted program 7B to implement this point...excuse me...the program 7B reads that the City shall establish expanded landscape areas and enhancements at corners and adjoining parkways located along Portola Avenue including the aforementioned. Specific design parameters shall be prepared for these locations. And then we have community development and public works departments as responsible agencies. We also have... RAS Mayor Pro Tem... JC Actually, you need to take action... RAS You've got a question? BAC Are you also planning to do the things that will...at the corners of intersections that we still have available on Cook? JC The community design element does have broader application. These were specific to those on Portola that had been identified, but... BAC But it ought to...it ought to, at least one person's opinion, it ought to nail the same thing on our major north/souths. RSK Make that two persons. JC We could certainly expand this to reference both those intersections of the aforementioned streets with Portola... BAC Monterey... JC ...and Cook... BAC Cook and Portola. JC All the way across. BAC Yeah. RSK I agree. RAS I agree we did the open space. JC Okay, then we will (inaudible) 36 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RAS Do you need a motion on that? RSK If that's a motion, I second it. RAS Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. JC Very good. Next item, then, is with regard to the...let's see...you will note that we reworded the...actually created a land use policy and a program to implement the high density overlay in the university park area. And the policy would read...and we've added something minor to the end, which I'II read...within the university park planning area, the City shall uniformly apply a high density overlay designation to all lands designated for medium density residential (RM) development to provide the opportunity to develop at RH densities in compliance with specific performance criteria. The minimum number of dwelling units in the university park planning area shall not be less than...at build out shall not be Tess than 4,046 units. And then program 9A would implement the policy, and it reads that the high density overlay development standards assigned to allow development of RH high density residential, 10-22 dwelling units per acre, on any RM lands within the university park planning area shall be further elaborated and incorporated into the City's zoning and development code and shall be consistent with the following performance criteria: 1) The percentage of residential units, whether single or multi -family, shall be available for home ownership; 2) high density residential neighborhoods shall be located in proximity and have convenience access to public transportation; 3) high density residential development shall be located in proximity to schools, parks, and commercial services which shall be accessible by means of non -motorized vehicle routes; 4) the percentage of proposed high density units to be reserved to meet the affordable housing needs of the community; 5) the adequacy and usability of landscaped open space planned internal and integral to the design of high density population, high density developments, rather, excuse me; 6) development plans reflecting creative and innovative designs and site planning, building design and landscape treatments consistent with general planned community design element; and 7) development proposals with high density residential units shall include analyses of potential fiscal impacts of the development. I'd be glad to answer any questions. RAS BAC RAS I think everybody agrees with what you just wrote. Do we need a motion? I don't think you need a vote, do you? 37 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RSK (Inaudible) does that take action, or is that... RAS Is that an action item? JC Yes, it is. BAC So moved. RAS Is there a second? RSK Second. RAS Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. JC The next item is a rewording of the CMU, the commercial mixed use designation to be amended in the land use table in chapter 2 of the general plan. It would be amended to read as follows for commercial mixed use. This land use designation provides for a mix of uses including those identified in any of the commercial land use designations as well as professional offices, institutional, and medium or high density residential to be evaluated based on the high density overlay criteria. This designation assumes that mixed use lands will be developed based upon master development plans or specific plans. The mixed use development is intended as a highly integrated master plan that optimizes complementary land uses and distributions, optimal internal non -vehicular access and low traffic volumes within residential areas of the master plan. Commercial mixed use developments will vary in size and are discretionary approvals. Any questions? BAC So moved. RAS Is there a second? RSK Second. RAS Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. JC Okay we discussed those items. We had a...okay...we've covered the other items in the...on the staff report and if it is the...if Council so wishes, we'll 38 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 move on to the elements in the environmental hazards and environmental resources chapter. BAC Let's take a break before we start in to that, take a stretch. RAS What time do you want to serve lunch? (Inaudible) BAC Why don't we take a... RAS break in... BAC ...five... RAS ...five minutes, and then we'll eat at 12:30? BAC Yeah. RAS Okay, is that alright with everybody? RSK (Inaudible) take a break... RAS And we're going to eat at 12:30. RECESS OBSERVED from 11:25 A.M. TO 11:40 A.M. RSK ...and I have something with the land use and then we'll polish that off. RAS Okay. Now which chapter? JC This is on page III-... RSK 111-28 is where the goals and policies start. JC Okay. Just as a real quick preamble and then we can go your concern...the outline here is pretty straightforward. We've tried to provide overarching goals and policies and programs for the...each of the major categories, residential, commercial, institutional, etc. And with that...and also, the aforementioned table lists each of the land use designations and provides a definition of what those are. That starts on page 111-4, and I'm prepared to proceed however you wish. 111-28, is that right Mr. Kelly, is the page you mentioned? RAS Why don't we start with Councilman Kelly's questions on 111-28. 39 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RSK Well, what I have here is III-28. You know, when I read this, I marked what I had, and interesting enough, the first three things I marked we've settled in the meeting already today. RAS Do you have any other questions on that? RSK I just have to go through here now and see what other ones I marked. We did that, we did that today too. I noticed...in policy 6... RAS What page? RSK It's on page 111-34...Made special notation about hillside, open space and hillside. I just thought there ought to be something there about open space in other areas besides just hillside, and we did some of that today (inaudible) general plan, policy 6. JF Couldn't we just insert the word open...open space with flat land and hillside designations? RSK Yeah, that's what 1...just like flat land in there, too. JF Yup. JC Okay. RSK Then let me go (inaudible) I'll see what my other ones are. Well, that's...that takes care of my main problems there. We did the rest of it this morning already. Thank you. RAS Anybody else have any questions on the land use element. Are they are more comments that you'd like to make on land use. JC No, sir. RSK I would move that we accept the land use element of the general plan. JF Second. RAS Comment, discussion? Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. RSK Now you can fire off the fireworks. 40 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 JC (Inaudible) We can fire up the environmental resources? Let's go back to page IV-1, then, and we'll pick up where we left off on discussion of cultural and archeological resources. We're just briefly mentioning the importance of the native American population and their cultural heritage. JC Oh...I still like to read this stuff and talk about it...you're right, absolutely. hope you (inaudible) Okay...any questions, comments? JF Yes, I have a question. In the open space and conservation element... JC Page? JF That is IV-76. It begins there. (Inaudible) JF Just asked if I had a question. JC IV-7? JF Beginning on 76, yeah. Then we go through the background on 77 and 78... JC Yes, sir. JF ...and we note on 79 the Santa Rosa Mountains National Scenic Area... JC Yes. JF The...I can't remember if it was in the preamble, the background, or this specific section, but there was a reference made to preserving hillsides and buffers, which I took to mean parcels with a ten percent greater slope, ten percent or greater slope, at the toe of slope of the mountains. JC In the discussion...well, the purpose would have been to make a general statement with regard to the buffering. JF Okay, but then when I look at policies 6, 7, 8, and 9 on...beginning on 88, going over to 89... JC Yes, sir. 41 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 JF JC (Inaudible) JC We don't mention buffers any more. And I guess my concern is that we be a little bit more specific that we don't have homes beginning (inaudible) the toe of slope... Policy 6 does reference appropriate buffers between urban and (inaudible) And 6-8 also references the buffer issue. JF Okay, and our alternative B, which I think we selected three or four meetings ago, would that apply to this buffer? JC Yes. JF Okay. But flat land development with not a greater than ten percent is just free to be developed as any other flat land? JC That's correct. JF Okay. RAS What is willow hole preserve? (Inaudible) JC Any other questions about open space and conservation element, since we're there? (Inaudible) RDK Microphone BAC Sorry. On 89...do we have the necessity for policy 7, a City -based land trust? RSK Which policy are you on? (Inaudible) JC It says to investigate the feasibility...this is...this was considered a hip pocket kind of item in case we ever needed it. 42 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 BAC Okay, that takes care of that one. And you've already...Jim's already covered (inaudible) on hillsides and stuff like that, so that covers that one for me. Oh...on 86...as R. Sullivan Kelly has the issue of flat land and hillside open space, when we're down at program 1 B on page 86, cooperation with CVAG and Mountains Conservancy, the City shall develop an inventory of open space lands...I would like to insert the word "natural" because remember open space can carry golf courses and this and that, and I don't have an argument about what we...that golf courses aren't open space, but that isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about natural... RAS Undisturbed BAC ...or undisturbed or whatever phrase that... JC 1 like natural. BAC Okay, natural open space lands that are available, desirable, and appropriate, and yadadadada. So designate that. JC Will do. RAS Any other questions on open space and conservation... JF Do we or should we define natural in our glossary to say just what Mayor Pro Tem Crites said? JC I don't know if we really...1 think open space is defined rather generically... JF But the adjective "natural"... JC Well, open space in this case is land or water which is essentially unimproved. PD (Inaudible) RSK We might disturb something to make it look natural. JF I guess my concern is we have Councilman Kelly's open space, which I think would include green belts, parks, certainly the Fred Waring park is not undisturbed, although it does look natural. BAC And it is open space. JF Hillside open space, which the goal is to not disturb it... 43 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RSK It's open space as long as you don't hit a golf ball... JF Right... JC The distinction is probably important because program 1 really does point more to the improved parkland open space factor, and B is more along the lines of Councilman Crites' point of natural or undisturbed lands. I would suggest that we just put natural or undisturbed open space lands. JF As opposed to natural and undisturbed? JC Well, one of the reasons is that some of the lands we've acquired have been disturbed by roads or things of that sort. RAS Okay. BAC Natural and/or... RAS Any other questions on the archaeological and cultural resource element? BAC Yup...on page 11 of area IV. JC Can we take an action on the conservation element, then, or... BAC Let's get all of section IV. JC But we're doing it element by element, so the element we just finished reviewing... JF Alright, I'll move approval. JC Open space and conservation. RAS There's a motion to approve. Is there a second? JMB Second. RAS Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. RAS Now what page...11? RSK Now we're going to the next one in line (inaudible)? 44 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 JC We're back... BAC No, we've got to go backwards first now. RAS IV-11. BAC IV-11. JF IV-11. RSK Oh, I thought we did that one. BAC No, we just did one piece of IV. RAS And this is another element. BAC Archaeological and cultural resources. RAS The page with the arrow. BAC The page with the arrow, and mine is the question is right next to the arrow to the right...we have a historic preservation ordinance and so on and so forth...I guess I would ask staff and my colleagues if we ever (inaudible) 1 have to admit that in retrospect I think we might have been well -guided by having such a (inaudible) where the Desert Magazine building is, and that certainly didn't end up, at least from my opinion, being (inaudible) RAS Also when we tore down that property that was given to the Living Desert, part of it to the Living Desert...that whole thing is now... BAC Yup. (Inaudible) JF It's all gone? RAS All gone. BAC So, well the Living Desert cares. JF They have a parking lot to pay for. 45 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 BAC So...if we don't want to ever do what's in...I mean, we've had 20 years to establish such a thing. If we want to do it, we ought to do it, if we don't, we ought not. RAS There's not a lot left, is there? BAC But we will get issues. I know Rancho Mirage has them now about some of the home (inaudible) and architectural issues and that (inaudible) RSK Well, and also...I agree with you, I wouldn't like the Desert Magazine to turn out what it did, but nevertheless, it is still there... BAC Right. RSK ...and we...I don't think we want it to disappear or something to happen to it still. BAC Fair point. So I would at least ask if we're leaving this in here, that staff actually look towards implementing what we've had on the books and never done for 20 years. RAS Are you directing staff to put together (inaudible) list the historic sites in our city? BAC Item...if you go to page 13, program 2C...Historical Preservation concern shall be incorporated somewhere in the years 2005 and 2006, and knowing how such matters work...anyway, I would ask that that be moved up to now. PD Yeah...we have an ordinance, and the ordinance initiates itself by the Council appointing a commission. I think it's the commission that then goes out and then...the kickoff (inaudible) in our ordinance is the Council appointment of a commission. BAC Well, I'd ask for you to bring whatever it is that we need to do and the Historical Society folks and this and that. PD Okay. RAS Alright. JMB I was just going to say that we met during our...I guess it was during this study....so long ago I forgot...but we did meet with the Historical Society to (inaudible) how we would either appoint them as the Historic Commission or whether we'd have a different commission, and it was left well the Historical 46 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 Society is doing it all now and it's kind of hard (inaudible) to have another commission that wasn't operating where they were. RAS Are they going to bring something to us? JMB No, it was just kind of left that...kind of like Buford said, it's up in the air, but it wasn't deemed that we needed another commission. RSK Use them. RAS Use them, sure, make them the commission. Yeah, that's fine. Just do it that way. (Inaudible) JF RSK JF JC JF JC I'd prefer you add a sentence at the end of this that says in 2004 the City Council noted that action had not been taken pursuant to these lines and reaffirmed its commitment to establishment of blah blah blah blah...and that...just an aside...is there a reason why we call this the 2000 general plan when it's 2004? We've been working on it for four years. I know. Can we update it? Sure. Okay. I don't want folks thinking they're dealing with a five -year -old document next year. Well, I must ask for a blanket authorization too to adjust the dates of the programs in accordance with the date of the adopted general plan because we're now out of whack. Some of the things were to be done in 2001, 2002 and obviously we never got (inaudible) BAC So in other words, my pessimism about 85-06 (inaudible) you're talking about (inaudible) no, you can't adjust. RAS Any other concerns, comments, questions? BAC Not on this... RAS On this element. 47 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 JC And Councilman Ferguson's comment...should we add a brief statement... RAS Please, yes, please. BAC And when it's appropriate, I'd move the adoption of the archaeological and cultural resources element. RDK Does that negate your last action because I thought that's what you were doing. BAC No. RAS No, the last action was on... RDK Oh, okay. JF Open space conservation. (inaudible) RDK Oh, I see, okay...sorry about that. RAS Alright, we've got a motion and a second. Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. JC Okay, the next item in the packet, then, is the biological resources element, and you'll see that we have quite a bit of information and data, and it's a critically important element for the whole Valley in terms of being able to proceed with development and (inaudible) RSK Can we get the page number every time so I won't have to look at the index every time? JC IV-16. JF Now do we have the Palm Desert City bird covered in here? JC We have a City bird? RAS Is that the black -tailed (inaudible) catcher? BAC No 48 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RAS No? (Inaudible) JF No, we did...what was the bird that we picked? BAC The mourning dove. JF Was it the mourning dove? JC The mourning duck? BAC Dove RAS We've got pocket mice because (inaudible) BAC Okay, if there are no questions, I'II move approval of this one. RSK Second. RAS Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. JC The next element is...starts on page IV-38, and that's the water resources element. And, again, you don't need me to tell you how important this issue is. BAC I would like to, on page IV-49, program 1 B. One person's request is that we ask staff to come back with some specifics of what we are actually going to do. This is not (inaudible) anyhow...I'd like some specifics on what we're going to do in the next fiscal year on Item, program 1B and on page 51, program 8A, both of which have to do with water management and such things. I think we've done probably, not probably, I think we have done the best job anywhere in Coachella Valley, and I think a lot of the reasons that we have a master water ordinance and Water District is because of Palm Desert and such things as that, and I'd like to see what we're doing next. JC Specific to strengthening education... BAC Yup. JC ...and public relations programs. 49 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 BAC And development of water management and conservation strategies, which is program (inaudible) CVWD does not appear to be remarkably quick on implementing any of these things (inaudible) RAS Any other questions on water...on the water element? JF My only...it's probably in here and it just didn't jump off the page, but when we set forth kind of the history of how we got to where we are and then we put a version of where we want to go, is there any mention of our drought tolerant irrigation ordinance or... JC Yes, yes. JF Okay. BAC As a matter of fact, it's the first paragraph of page 48. JF And the water...the active encouragement and participation in the development of water management conservation strategies, will that include things such as the water conservation programs in the hotels and... BAC Yup. JF Okay. BAC That is a wide range of things. It's not just about residential or commercial irrigation, it's inside/outside the home... JF Great. BAC Yes. RAS Okay, I'II entertain a motion on the water resource element. JF So moved. RAS Is there a second? JMB Second. RAS Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. 50 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RAS Air quality now? JC Air quality is next. Again, our primary issues are PM-10 and ozone...more and more...we have a couple of guidelines we had to follow...there is a brand new model air quality ordinance which is being considered by South Coast...we didn't have the benefit of that. We think we're going to be fine with what we've got. BAC I was...that was a question I had...does this incorporate the new PM-10 ordinance and program? JC We have not seen it, but we've spoken with staff at South Coast and went over the element with them. They said they thought we were in good shape. BAC With that, I would move approval. RAS Is there a second? RSK Second. RAS Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. JC The next element in this chapter, I think it's the final...no, it's the next to last...is the energy and mineral resources element. Energy, of course, is progressively more important for us as costs go up. The other is that not in the City limits but within the north planning area we had a couple of areas of (inaudible) sand and aggregate. They're identified on figure IV-7. Otherwise, it's fairly straightforward. We're kind of in a flux situation with the way the energy market is, changing, including power generation and distribution. It provides some options, though, for the Council to act. RAS Any questions about the energy and mineral resources...yes. JF Well, again, trying to envision a future Councilmember looking at this and considering energy proposals. At least in the historical narrative, should there not be some comment after "Electrical Power Deregulation" that the City has both looked at power aggregation through CVAG and ultimately decided against it and looked at a municipally -owned distribution system and decided against that, so people can see that we've been down this road. JC (Inaudible) visited this. 51 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RAS Good point. Buford? BAC I just noted that nowhere in here...it's probably something that Mr. Drell forgot...there's no reference in here to Mr. George Foxx's proposal for gold mining in the local hills and the probability of that for us. RSK We wouldn't have to drive so far then to look at one (inaudible) BAC No, we wouldn't. I'd move approval. RSK Second. RAS Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. JC And you already finished the last element, the open space conservation element. BAC A technical correction...I know we approved the open space and conservation element, but this might be accepted as a technical correction, not substantive in nature, although (inaudible) RAS I don't know that you're allowed to do that. BAC If the Chair so rules that I may not, I will ask for a reconsideration of the element. That somehow...Mr. Criste, I guess you are not particularly familiar with the habitat and conservation planning efforts and so on, but I note that we have counted a national scenic area and a national monument as two separate entities, giving us over 800,000 acres of open space. There is no national scenic area. That is the national monument, so while I appreciate conservation, we can't count the same land twice. That's page 79, where it talks about the national scenic area, and if you'll look at the bottom of page 80 where it (inaudible) over 800,000 acres... RAS BAC JC That's the national monument. Except the national monument is half that size. They counted the same land... This is a hang over from when I used to work for the Federal government and when we had to exaggerate, so we should be...you're absolutely right. 52 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 BAC We should just simply eliminate that three paragraph thing that refers to the Santa Rosa Mountains National Scenic Area, it does not exist, and... JC And adjust the acreage. BAC ...appropriately adjust the designated open space land's acreage. JC Thank you for that. RAS I think we can do that without a vote. JC Next we proceed to page V-1, which is the first chapter of the environmental hazards element, and we have a couple of exhibits...I'm not going to go through the exhibits, and they're in the elements, in the geotechnical element, but I just wanted to point out that almost all of the maps and resources that we've generated from the general plan are in GIS format, arc - view or arc -info. And now they're going on to the City's computers, and staff is going to be able to bring those up, and the public will, and all these resources that include faulting and geotechnical areas of concern, wildlife, etc., all those databases will be on the City's GIS and readily updatable. Geotechnical element is obviously important for us, and we had some excellent technical assistance on the element, and it pretty much speaks for itself. I'd be glad to answer any questions. BAC Just a quick item. I'd like to pass to staff something I pulled out of the LA Times several months ago on retrofitting of dwellings at the time they're sold and some things that several cities in the State are using for helping with earthquakes. I don't know if it's a good idea, bad idea, but (inaudible) in an article called "Innovation in Earthquake Safety" and so on. JC Thank you. BAC Look at that (inaudible) I'd move approval. JF Second. RAS Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. JC The next element is hydrology and flooding or flooding and hydrology. And the City, of course, is well aware in the past these issues and of the major facilities built and that are still planned. We talk about (inaudible) and with 53 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RAS (Inaudible) CLO (Inaudible) relevant mapping, again in a GIS format, and policies and programs. I'd be glad to answer any questions. (Inaudible) pretty much out of a flood zone. We're out of the 100-year flood plain zone which is basically the standard. BAC A question. We have drawn a, if you look at the map that's on page VI-28, I guess it would be... RAS VI or V? BAC V, excuse me...all the lands north of the Whitewater river are white, which means no, apparently no designation whatsoever... JC They're not mapped. BAC And then the land...all of the land that is to the west of the Palm Valley Channel, sort of an arc of land there, is also...is that...tell me why those two areas... JC They were not mapped by FEMA...I think they didn't anticipate development pressures in those areas. Usually, FEMA responds to a county or, in this case, CVWD saying we've got development pressure here, we need to know how we should be treating these areas. And these areas have not been subject to development pressure that has encouraged FEMA to map them for flood hazards. BAC Well, let's take, as an example, the area between the Whitewater river and the freeway. I think we can prove some modest development out there. Does it make any difference for folks on their insurance whether FEMA has yea'd or nay'd or... JC I believe it does because...it's when they're in an identified flood zone that it's a flood insurance issue. PD It's my recollection just in looking at the maps as they've changed over the years, the recognized hazard was the big storms and the big whooshes coming out of the canyons and the paths, the historical paths of those floods, and those historical paths stopped, obviously, at the Whitewater Channel. 54 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 They obviously also did not impact the highlands of Cahuilla Hills either. Again, those recent historical floods, so...you know, it's just a...and obviously, you might have...north of the Whitewater you might have...you know, they have the different categories...(inaudible) zones, and the nature of...you know, you can have a huge deluge north of the Whitewater, but you're not going to get the devastating destruction which comes out of those canyons, so they're a different zone. RAS Any other questions on flooding and hydrology? I'II entertain a motion. JF So moved. RAS Is there a second? RSK Second. RAS Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. JC The next element is the noise element, and as we have been hearing, with urban development comes traffic, and with traffic comes noise. The subject is not limited to that. We've tried to elaborate and provide as much information as possible and policies and programs. Any questions? RAS Is there anything in here about...I hate to bring it up... BAC Don't. RAS Okay...you know what I'm talking about... BAC No. RAS People using...the gardeners using the... JF Leaf blowers RAS ...leaf blowers. (Inaudible) brought it up. JF No. ?? That's covered in our ordinance. We have modified the ordinance, I believe a year ago, and we do have regulations on those now for time of use and decibel levels. 55 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 (Inaudible) RAS Any other questions on the noise element? JF Move approval. RAS Is there a second? BAC Yup. RAS Please vote. RDK Councilman Ferguson, did you vote? Thank you. Motion carries by unanimous vote. JC Our last element of the environmental hazards chapter is the hazardous and toxic materials element. And it follows, again, the same format. It discusses relevant code, hazardous waste, sewage disposal, hazardous materials response team, and it also references back to the emergency preparedness element, which is in the public facilities public services element. It has goals, policies, and programs. I'd be glad to answer any questions. RAS I have a question for our City Manager. How's the Shell station coming along? BAC That's one of those for the historical preservation... PD We saw a...we're discussing with the owner various means to demolish the existing building, and I saw a site plan last week from Enterprise Rent A Car to build a small office building on the corner and a parking lot, which is probably about the only sort of thing that can go there. But...it included a nice, generous landscaping at the corner, and since it is a unique use it doesn't require a large building, so that's the direction it's going. I made it quite clear that our inclination is we will do...we will be extremely cooperative in any use that's not a gas station or that preserves the existing building. RAS And I assume that the rest of the area will be a parking lot for Enterprise Rent A Car? PD Yes...in essence, it will be a...they were looking like a 1,200 square foot building and then a parking lot far larger than it needs to be for an office building, but it will be a parking lot landscaped pursuant to our standards as if it was a public standard parking lot. 56 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RAS Will that come before the Council? PD Oh, if you're...if you want to look at it, but it's not there yet. RAS Well, when it gets there. PD It doesn't have to. RAS I'd like to see it. RSK If we move along, we have a chance of finishing before 12. RAS I have no place to go til four o'clock, so take all the time you want. Okay, well, thank you for the information. Are there any questions on the hazardous materials element? RSK Move approval. BAC Move approval. RAS You can't both move approval, only one can move approval. BAC Well, I so second it. RAS Alright. Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. RSK We did the water and sewer already. JC We did, and the...well, actually, we...yes, we did, we did public facilities...actually we finished all but... RSK And we did public buildings already. JC Since we have a moment, one thing we did miss last time...two items, actually, and quickly...they were the health services element on page VI-50 and then following that was the emergency preparedness element, and I think we can easily cover those in just a few minutes if you're so inclined. BAC Before you get to VI-50, on page VI-43...so that the Mayor rests well at night...would you be kind enough to change Cal State University San Bernardino Coachella Valley Campus to Palm Desert? 57 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING CO THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 JC We did...we had so noted that. The health services element starting on page VI-50 really provides a general background (inaudible) expanded quite a bit in consultation with City commissions and members of the GPAC...you can see that we've given it a pretty extensive discussion, and it covers all sorts of specialties and associated kind of care, continuing care, accessibility and transportation, etc. So we have a pretty concise list of policies and programs because the City has a limited role, but they seem relevant. I'll be glad to answer any questions. RAS Is there a motion on the health services element? RSK Move approval. RAS Is there a second? JF I'II second. RAS Please vote. JMB (Inaudible) question on the Portofino timing in there that probably should be changed some. JC What page is that on? JMB It's on the health facilities, and it said health facilities set to begin at 202, and I think they're (inaudible) JC They're behind? JMB They're behind. It could probably just read to include (inaudible) time. JC Okay. JMB That will be (inaudible) JC Made a note of that. Thank you. RAS Okay, with that, please vote. RDK You did, thank you. The motion carries by unanimous vote. That's the health services element. JC And then, lastly, the emergency preparedness element, which starts on VI-62. This is another element that got cultivated in conjunction with public 58 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 safety elements, police and fire, and also with health services, and we had quite a bit of input from City commissions and from police and fire departments both. It has been a...there's also quite a City program, of course, already developed with regard to emergency response, and we think we've characterized all that accurately and... RAS Is there anything about COPS in here? JF It would be in public safety. JC In the police and fire element. JF Quick question. Do we need one vote on the entire plan? (Inaudible) JF Procedurally, when we do this one, will we be taking one vote on the entire general plan, or were all these (inaudible) JC The adoption of the resolution will be...that will adopt it. JF Okay, and have we done the EIR yet? JC No. PD Not yet. JC Did we act on the emergency preparedness? BAC No. RSK Let's do this element. I move approval of this one. BAC I've got a couple of questions. RSK Oh, okay, emergency preparedness. BAC Yes. And they're not questions as much as they are to actually have staff come back to us and tell us where we are on page 71, policy 3, page 72, program 3B, and page 73, program 4C and 5A. I don't have a clue of, you know, the "current predictions" of the earthquake (inaudible) September the 5th have any validity at all, but this is a great time for people to be looking at these issues, and there were some that I just...I'd like to see where we are on those things and what we're doing. 59 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RAS We had a meeting of people from gated communities with the fire and police, and six people showed up. RSK And me. You and I were there... RAS You and I were there. RSK ...and on the Minutes, we were the only ones it didn't show we were there. It wasn't very nice, was it? RAS It wasn't very nice. RSK But all the other staff got credit. RAS They sure did. CLO Well, that's because you left before I did, that's why you guys are not in the Minutes. BAC I would move approval of this element. RAS That's the brown helmet for the City Manager. BAC Yeah. RSK Second. RAS Okay. Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. JC If you would like to entertain...I can summarize the environmental impact report very quickly. We did a very comprehensive analysis with technical study on four different general plan scenarios. The adopted...that is the Council nod on the land use plan is consistent and is adequately addressed in this environmental document. We prepared...we had sent the document out for comment. We had several comments, I think eight or ten (inaudible) only one that really required quite elaborate discussion, which is the first letter, and the others were pretty much informational, and we have addressed all of those in close consultation with the City Attorney. And Phil and I feel very comfortable that we have a very defensible environmental document which represents the impacts associated with the proposed, Council proposed general plan. 60 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RAS Could you remind me what was said about the Cornishe at Bighorn? JC That was the first Ietter...essentially it was a scatter shot approach at just about everything we had written about the environmental (inaudible) PD And remember our action on this land use issue we... JF The study zone. PD Yeah, we complied with...we did it consistent with what he was asking for and, therefore, we don't anticipate him pursuing it. RAS Aren't they doing and EIR on that... PD We're doing and EIR on the Cornishe, yes, although they haven't given us a check yet, so it hasn't started yet. They want to pay for it in installments, and we're assessing that request. JF Is there...Madam Clerk, a resolution number for this? RDK To the best of my recollection, I wasn't sure if we'd get to this today, so I think...the last one we adopted was 04-19, so for the record, this should be 04-20, I believe. JF Alright, when it's appropriate, I would move... RAS Do we need to approve the environmental...the EIR? JF It's part of the resolution. RAS Oh, okay. JC Technically, your action is the environmental, then the general plan, but yes... JF I would move approval of Resolution 04-20, if that's the correct number. RSK Second. RAS There's a motion, and there's a second. Is there any discussion? Please vote. RDK Motion carries by unanimous vote. 61 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 RAS Now do we have a bottle of champagne? Congratulations, Council. We have a general plan. The following actions were taken and/or direction was given at the public hearing. 1. University Park Land Use - Area North of 35th Avenue (Map— General Plan 2000 City Council - Alternative D, March 4. 2004) Councilman Ferguson moved to accept the land designations as set forth on "University Park Area - General Plan 200 City Council Alternative - D, dated March 4, 2004." Motion was seconded by Mayor Pro Tem Crites and carried by a 5-0 vote. 2. NEC Monterey Avenue/Country Club Drive Mayor Pro Tem Crites moved to designate the subject location as "Mixed Use," with a notation that a major grocery facility is not desirable there. Motion was seconded by Councilman Kelly and carried by 4-0 vote, with Councilman Ferguson ABSENT. 3. Office Development — Sheryl/Cook Mayor Pro Tem Crites moved to designate the portion of property along Cook Street, from Cook Street to Sheryl, and from Sheryl back down to the Wash, as a "Study Zone" for future consideration. Motion was seconded by Councilman Kelly and carried by 5-0 vote. 4. Palma Village & Core Specific Plan Amendments With City Council concurrence, to affirm action or direction from prior General Plan meetings to be included in the final General Plan, accepted Policy 5 and Program 5.A, as presented in the staff report dated March 15, 2004, noting that Policy 5 should state the Alessandro Alley project would be located between Las Palmas Avenue and Monterey Avenue; Responsible Agencies: ADD Palm Desert Parking Authority. 5. Portola Avenue Land Use Designation Councilman Kelly moved to: 1) Designate the land north of Fred Waring Drive on the westerly side to Open Space/R-1, and establish a policy for acquiring homes as they become available in this area; 2) land south of Fred Waring Drive to remain as previously discussed. Motion was seconded by Mayor Spiegel and carried by 5-0 vote. 62 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 6. Landscape -Enhanced Intersections - Office Professional Community Design Element Program 7.B — Mayor Pro Tem Crites moved to accept Program 7.B, as presented in the March 15, 2004 staff report, with the addition of also referencing all intersections along Cook Street, Monterey Avenue, and Portola Avenue. Motion was seconded by Councilman Kelly and carried by a 5-0 vote. 7. University Park Planning Area - "High Density Overlay" Mayor Pro Tem Crites moved to accept the Land Use Element Policy 9 and Program 9.A, as presented in the March 15, 2004, staff report, which outlined the performance criteria for "High Density Overlay." Motion was seconded by Councilman Kelly and carried by a 5-0 vote. 8. Commercial -Mixed Use (C-MU) Mayor Pro Tem Crites moved to accept the C-MU Land Use Designation, as presented in the March 15, 2004, staff report. Motion was seconded by Councilman Kelly and carried by 5-0 vote. RECESS OBSERVED from 11:25 A.M. TO 11:40 A.M. 9. Land Use Element (Draft General Plan, Section III) • MODIFY Policy 6 on Page III-34 to insert, "...development on lands with flat land and hillside designations." Councilman Kelly moved to accept the Land Use Element with the modification, above. Motion was seconded by Councilman Ferguson and carried by 5-0 vote. 10. Open Space and Conservation Element (Draft General Plan, Section IV-76) • AMEND Program 1.B on Page IV-86 to say, "...shall develop an inventory of natural or undisturbed open space lands that are available, desirable, and appropriate..." • AMEND Pages IV-79 and IV-80 to eliminate mention of the Santa Rosa Mountains National Scenic Area, which is now incorporated into and known as the San Jacinto 63 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 and Santa Rosa Mountains National Monument, and adjust the acreage in Table IV-9--Designated Open Space Lands accordingly. Councilman Ferguson moved to accept the Open Space and Conservation Element as amended, above. Motion was seconded by Councilmember Benson and carried by a 5-0 vote. 11. Archaeological and Cultural Resources Element (Draft General Plan, Section IV-1) • Asked staff to look towards implementing provisions of the Historic Preservation Ordinance, specifically appointment of the Historic Preservation Board, which could likely be the Historical Society of Palm Desert. And ADD sentence to Program 2.0 (page IV-13) saying, "In 2004 the City Council noted that action had not been taken pursuant to its Ordinance No. 401 adopted in 1984 and reaffirmed its commitment to historic preservation and establishment of the Historic Preservation Board." Mayor Pro Tem Crites moved to accept the Archaeological and Cultural Resources Element as modified, above. Motion was seconded by Councilman Ferguson and carried by 5-0 vote. 12. Biological Resources Element (Draft General Plan, Section IV-16) Mayor Pro Tem Crites moved to accept the Biological Resources Element as presented. Motion was seconded by Councilman Kelly and carried by 5-0 vote. 13. Water Resources Element (Draft General Plan, Section IV-38) • Programs 1.B (page IV-49) and 8.A (page IV-51) — asked staff to return in FY 2004/05 with specifics of proposed strengthened educational/public relations programs and development of water management/conservation strategies (i.e., residential, commercial, and resort components of the community), thereby encouraging Coachella Valley Water District to implement such programs. Councilman Ferguson moved to accept the Water Resources Element as presented. Motion was seconded by Councilmember Benson and carried by a 5-0 vote. 64 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 14. Air Quality Element (Draft General Plan, Section IV-52) Mayor Pro Tem Crites moved to accept the Air Quality Element as presented. Motion was seconded by Councilman Kelly and carried by 5-0 vote. 15. Energy and Mineral Resources Element (Draft General Plan, Section IV-63) • Asked to ADD comment to the historical narrative under the subheading ELECTRIC POWER DEREGULATION (page IV-67), to the effect that, "The City has looked at power aggregation through CVAG and at a municipally -owned distribution system, and ultimately decided against both." Mayor Pro Tem Crites moved to accept the Energy and Mineral Resources Element, with the modification noted above. Motion was seconded by Councilman Kelly and carried by 5-0 vote. 16. Geotechnical Element (Draft General Plan, Section V-1) • Staff to consider Los Angeles Times article, "Innovation in Earthquake Safety," on retrofitting of dwellings at the time they are sold and other programs being utilized by several cities in the State to help with earthquake preparedness. Mayor Pro Tem Crites moved to accept the Geotechnical Element as presented. Motion was seconded by Councilman Ferguson and carried by 5-0 vote. 17. Flooding and Hydrology Element (Draft General Plan, Section V-23) Councilman Ferguson moved to accept the Flooding and Hydrology Element as presented. Motion was seconded by Councilman Kelly and carried by a 5-0 vote. 18. Noise Element (Draft General Plan, Section V-43) Councilman Ferguson moved to accept the Noise Element as presented. Motion was seconded by Mayor Pro Tem Crites and carried by 5-0 vote. 19. Hazardous &Toxic Materials Element (Draft General Plan, Section V-57) Councilman Kelly moved to accept the Hazardous & Toxic Materials Element as presented. Motion was seconded by Mayor Pro Tem Crites and carried by 5-0 vote. 65 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 20. Health Services Element (Draft General Plan, Section VI-50) • Page VI-56 — Skilled Nursing Facilities — noted that paragraph 2 on this page regarding the Portofino project should be amended to not reflect a specific date, as this project had experienced a delay. Councilman Kelly moved to accept the Health Services Element with the modification, above. Motion was seconded by Councilman Ferguson and carried by a 5-0 vote. 21. Emergency Preparedness Element (Draft General Plan, Section VI-62) • Asked staff to return to the City Council with a status report on the following relating to Citizen Emergency Response Teams and emergency preparedness generally: — Policy 3 (p. VI-71) — Program 3.B (p. VI-72) — Program 4.0 (p. VI-73) — Program 5.A (p. VI-73) Mayor Pro Tem Crites moved to accept the Emergency Preparedness Element as presented. Motion was seconded by Councilman Kelly and carried by 5-0 vote. 22. Adoption of the Comprehensive General Plan and Environmental Impact Report Councilman Ferguson moved to waive further reading and adopt Resolution No. 04-20, certifying the Final Environmental Impact Report and a Mitigation Monitoring and Reporting Program prepared for City of Palm Desert General Plan Update based upon environmental findings pursuant to the California Environmental Quality Act, and that the City Council adopt the General Plan Update (Case No. GPA 01-04, General Plan Update and Draft EIR). Motion was seconded by Councilman Kelly and carried by 5-0 vote. VIII. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS - B None 66 PRELIMINARY MINUTES ADJOURNED REGULAR MEETING OF THE PALM DESERT CITY COUNCIL MARCH 15, 2004 IX. ADJOURNMENT With Council concurrence, Mayor Spiegel adjourned the meeting at 12:26 p.m. ATTEST: RACHELLE D. KLASSEN, CITY CLERK CITY OF PALM DESERT, CALIFORNIA ROBERT A. SPIEGEL, MAYOR 67