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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - Sister Cities Committee (Special Meeting) 03/24/2005gC-5 APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE THURSDAY, MARCH 24, 2005 — 2:00 p.m. — 3:00 p.m. NORTH WING CONFERENCE ROOM I. CALL TO ORDER Chairman Talboys called the meeting to order at 2:05 p.m. II. ROLL CALL Members Present: Patricia Bannon Donna Jean Darby Bill Harris Rolf Hoehn Nancy Jo McIntosh, Vice -Chair John Marman Rose Mary Ortega Gilbert Slagel Mark Talboys, Chair Staff/Others Present: Sheila Gilligan, Assistant City Manager Donna Gomez, Visitor Center Manager Lori Wimbish, Recording Secretary III. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS None IV. OLD BUSINESS A. CONSIDERATION OF SISTER CITIES AS A NON-PROFIT, COMMUNITY BASED PROGRAM The following is verbatim transcript of this portion of the meeting. Key BC Buford Crites, Mayor CLO Carlos L. Ortega, City Manager SRG Sheila R. Gilligan, ACM/Community Services Division DG Donna Gomez, Visitor Information Center Manager SQ Steven B. Quintanilla, Green, de Bortnowsky & Quintanilla, LLP MT Mark Talboys, Sister Cities Committee Chair RMO Rose Mary Ortega, Sister Cities Committee Member APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 NJM Nancy Jo McIntosh, Sister Cities Committee Member JM John Marman, Sister Cities Committee Member RH Rolf Hoehn, Sister Cities Committee Member AF Alibaba Farzaneh, Ex-officio Member MT We are fortunate to have Buford here. Buford is on a very busy schedule so without further ado I think Buford has some comments to make and then he is going to depart. BC The UC Chancellor is here so I will have to drop out early so anyhow. In looking a the materials before I just wanted to give you a very basic thought and that is I don't think there is an issue of you have to do x or you have to not do x. This is a menu you can pick and choose things out of all of this stuff that you think is good. We can be a city committee and a non-profit. We can be a city committee and not a non-profit. We can be a non-profit and not a city committee, we can be this; we can do whatever we darn well want to do. So, think about what is the best thing to foster the programs that you all care about and that is what you ought to recommend. And know that there is no prejudgment about what we ought to do after that. And that the City is committed to working with financing, working with staffing, Donna's role is going to change and the only building larger than the new Visitor Center is apparently the Haggendorn home up BIGHORN. She is going to have a literally, a giant role to fill in a whole variety of ways so how we tend to staffing and where we move things around and what pegs need to be wielded on and whether we need to bring new people, all of that stuff we can talk about and figure out and we're really talking about, and I think this is something Sheila has expressed to me, we are talking about the product of success and now that we are being very successful what do we want to do to make that continue and staff gave you some ideas its now your business. To look at them, think about it, and give us direction. That's all I want to say, unless there's a question. NJM How can we be a city committee and still be a non-profit? BC Simply, you're a city committee and a non-profit. NJM So we can do that? BC Sure. Of course you can. RH That would be reflective through the membership on the board by members of the City Council. BC Who or whatever. If being a non-profit is primarily there to help people feel more comfortable, as an example, in contributing, or being involved and that makes them feel better than simply handling things to close to the City. Or you can create some pattern that I haven't even mentioned or that Sheila and Donna haven't thought about, or will think about today. Basic issue is what makes the committee effective in terms of doing what it wants to and needs to be done in relationship to our two sister cities. That's the bottom line of it and we'll do our best to make it happen. Is that a fair opening? 01A APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 GS Sounds good. SG And I think we have Steve Quintanilla here who is the City Attorney to the City of Cathedral City and he had experience on both sides of the issue. He's also the one who generously offered to help us with some legal issues if the Committee does go to non-profit, so maybe it would be great to hear from him. BC By the way, you are now, members of a non-profit. It's just that depending on how we have done the finances over the years we don't look like a non-profit, but most of our other cities in the Valley very much look like non -profits. MT Thank you Buford. BC Now I know its time for me to get out of here. BC Thank you all. MT Sheila, thank you for introducing Mr. Q. Perhaps out of courtesy being a busy man we perhaps should ask Mr. Q. to offer his comments at this time. SQ Hi I'm Steve Quintanilla and I'm actually the City of Attorney for Rancho Mirage... SG Weren't you with Cathedral City? SQ ...yes he is with Cathedral City until yesterday we reorganized and one of my partners ended up taking that position and so I can stay focused on Rancho Mirage, they keep me pretty busy over there. So, but yeah I have been with the City of Cathedral City for, actually I represented them back in 1992 as special counsel for them. Then I came out here as their City Attorney in 96' and got involved in their Sister Cities Program. But in addition to representing cities and public agencies we do a lot of non-profit work, in fact, one of the requirements of all of our associates is that they adopt a non-profit and provide general counsel services. I personally am general counsel for the Palm Springs Police Activities League, Kendell Berky in my office is general counsel for CASA and we do work for the Cathedral City's Boys and Girls Club, some of the chambers as well. So, this just comes with the territory. One of the things or services that we offer to the community we represent are non-profit services in the sense that when there is a community organization that is interested in (unclear) non-profit we actually help you go through that process. We give you application forms. We don't charge for our services. We make sure you do all the foot work, you know, you get all the information to us and we sit down and fill out the application and you raise the money for the application fee, which is generally about $800, $600 of that is refunded if you get your tax exempt status, but that is all you do. We then sit down with you go over your (unclear) get you through your first board meeting and then see you later. Don't get yourself in trouble. And so anyway I got a call from City Manager a while ago, he was actually over at my house at a Sister Cities Conference we had a couple of years ago, and he came over to a reception that I had and we started talking about it. I told him that while Cathedral City, when I first started there I remember the first thing on the agenda was a trip down to Tequila, Mexico, and I said oh wow that's interesting I wonder 3 APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 how they raised all this money. Well, they decided that night to approve $20,000 for this trip, wow, $20,000 for this trip. And then there was an article in the paper the next day criticizing the Council for doing this and at the next meeting they put it back on there and decided not to go down there, and I offered the idea of a non-profit. I said why don't you just form a non-profit and people who are really interested in this program can go out there and raise money and if the City wants to the City can contribute funding, that's what the Government Code says, the City Council can sponsor city programs, and so we ended up using an existing non-profit that was in the community that was kind of dormant, it was a Foundation for More Livable Communities. So, we used that non-profit to raise money for the program. So, the sister city it became a Sister City Committee Program Foundation for More Livable Communities and they have been continuing operating under that non-profit since that time. I understand there are a lot of cities that have established 501 C3s under Sister Cities Programs and some of these sister city non -profits are actually created by the City and meaning that the City can incorporate a non-profit and if the City provides funding for that non-profit then your meetings become subject to the Brown Act, so that is one thing to keep in mind, if you want the City involved with you and you accept funding from the City and there are Council members sitting on your board, you are going to be subject to the Brown Act. There are some cities that have set up a non-profit that runs their IMAX and the Council sits on that non-profit board and that non-profit board is not only subject to the Brown Act, but it is also subject to all the financial disclosure laws such as the 700 forms. So, keep that all in mind before you make a decision on how closely connected you want to be with the City. I strongly encourage the non-profit board (unclear) because it is what it is really about, it's about the City. In any event, with that said, I am not advocating one way or another as to which way you should go, all I am suggesting is that if you do become a non-profit make sure you always keep the objectives in mind that your exchanges, if it's a cultural exchange between two communities in different parts of the world, and a community is represented here by your City Council. Now, like I said the Government Code allows cities to spend (unclear) money on Sister Cities Programs, so don't let anyone tell you otherwise. And so what I will do right now is run you through the non-profit process and just so you have a general understanding of how it works and I have some handouts for you... NJM Can we interject something for Rose Mary and John, Buford came in and talked before us and one of the things he interjected was he said he encouraged us to make our recommendation based on what we want to accomplish to be successful, but he did say that there was a vehicle that we could form a Sister Cities City Committee that was a non-profit. So, this is something that I had not know that this was an opportunity available to us. So, just so you guys... SG Let's say this Sister Cities Committee sitting right here is a city committee appointed by the members of the City Council can they then establish themselves as a non-profit... SQ Yes. SG ...under the City. M APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 SQ Yes. It is actually going to be a separate legal entity from the City, but the City can control it. SG Okay. Thank you. SQ And that's the thing you need to keep in mind. DG And they can appoint Council as board members. SQ Yes. DG How about financial accounting, could that be done through the City? SQ Yes that could be done through the City. It would be considered a contribution to the organization that resources that the City contributes for the good of the organization. SG Who would the board of the non-profit committee still be appointed by the City Council, or would it be an act of the committee through its bylaws? SQ It is going to depend on the bylaws. What happens is that once the ... when you have your first meeting that's the point in which you determine how the board is going to be appointed, who the officers are going to be, and you modify the bylaws if you want. The non -profits that have been created by or initiated and created by the cities that I worked with have in some cases decided to go in and pay the application fee, direct the City Attorney to put the application forms together and they tell the City Attorney now you write bylaws that require that at least two Council members be appointed to the board, or you write bylaws that have two Council members who sit in a non -voting capacity on the board. Or, you can write bylaws that, like in the case of Cathedral City and the Foundation they just created there for the IMAX, the board members shall consist solely of five Council members. So, if the City Council initiates it and they decide to have Dave Erwin fill out the application forms and they pay the finances and cut the check, the City Council is going to control how it operates. Now I don't know if that is good or bad for you but that's for you guys to determine. NJM Another question about insurance, workers' comp liability. If we are non-profit do we need to have our own separate insurance or can we go under the umbrella of the City? SQ You can go under the umbrella of the City. All the non -profits I have worked with have always insisted that they get Directors and Officers Insurance. NJM Well, the City has that, right? SQ That's one of the advantages of having... SG It's a form of insurance, but we don't actually have an insurance policy for that yet. APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 SQ ...I know in some cities I've made the determination that the non -profits that were created by the City being that all the board members are volunteers for the City are covered by the City's insurance policy. So that is another advantage to having the City create the non-profit. SG I know we don't have any Officers or Directors Insurance. We have JPIA... SQ I have to tell you that Directors and Officers Insurance, I think that last time I checked for an organization, was $1,200 per year, which surprised me I thought it would be a lot more. And after I found that out I went out (unclear). MT Steve when you mentioned the City can or could control it, it's purely depends upon the content of the bylaws that are established by that non-profit. SQ That's right. Sometimes I know that some non-profit organizations form separately from the City (unclear) in the condition of receiving assistance from the City that the City (unclear) modify your bylaws and we want a Council member sitting on your board or something like that. We see a lot of that going on right now in the Valley with the YMCA I know there is Council members who sit on their boards (unclear). JM So on one end we have stay as we are. On the other end we got go our own non-profit without totally the City's help, and then in the middle, the question is is there one or two hybrids. What I hear is that there is one hybrid where we stay a Sister Cities Committee, but file for non-profit and basically kind of keep like we are in a way. Another way we would go still we become non-profit but embrace the City's support financially. Is there two different other than the hybrids in the middle? SQ Right now you maintain the status quo. You are a committee, right, and as a committee you are subject to jurisdiction over one issue for a long period, so you have agendas, so you are subject to the Brown Act. JM Right. SQ So you are all volunteers for the City. The other option is to become an independent non-profit with no city's involvement but you're going to be like the Chamber of Commerce or the local Boys & Girls Club or the YMCA who come after the City for assistance, but you still maintain your independence. The other option is the City Council can initiate this whole process of incorporating you. The City Council will determine, pay the fees, submit the application, and determine what your bylaws are going to say about who is going to sit on the board. Or, you can have kind of an arms length relationship with City Council and at the condition of receiving financial assistance on a continuous basis you say, "Listen we (noise) Council members (noise) our bylaws will say that we have to appoint two Council members, as voting members and non -voting members." Just you have someone on the inside monitoring everything we do. They can act as a subcommittee and go back to report. NJM If we have three Council members would then be required to do the agendas? APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 SQ You have three Council members and you have (unclear) meeting. SG If there are only two Steve, is it still (unclear)? SQ No, if the City creates you, if the City creates you and (unclear) you then you're a Brown Act non-profit. SG I think that's where we were going was the independence. Right now the monetary issue was a concern to us that they go out and raise funds people like they are just giving to the City that already has a lot of money. They don't get the value of the Sister City Program so that opened the door, as well as, everything this committee does, every expenditure it makes winds up going on the City Council agenda... SQ That's right. SG ...and we thought this process would give them independence and it wouldn't be that I just think it is a very tainted overview by the Desert Sun. I will be real point blank and I would tell the Desert Sun they always look at their side of it but they don't get in, necessarily, the good messages. SQ I'll tell you that is one of the other issues that has caused some controversy for some communities is that they have Sister Cities Committees, such as this that are run by the City, is that a lot of times solicitation letters are sent out on City letterhead to your contractors, like Waste Management, or what have you, and that creates, you know, it creates an awkward situation for some of the contractors who are not going to say, "no" so they contribute money and their contracts get renewed and people, its just some you know not that positive for the Committee. This way you can go out there and ask them to contribute to your organization and give them your tax id. number that is separate from the City. DJD When we first started Sheila we did have some negative press but I feel that that has turned around and I don't feel that the Desert Sun is out to get us at all as a City entity or anything else. I think we turned that around. Now I maybe wrong, but it doesn't seem to me like they are not supportive at all anymore. JM Jennifer Larson turned that around. SG They have other issues. JM They're after somebody else. PB In the beginning because there was not that many projects and there was only one. And the only focus was... JM They could always pick it up and come after us. SG It may be good and I met with the editor Steve Silverman not to long ago and I offered him again the next trip we go on for Sister Cities we want you to come as I.1 APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 the reporter to see the other side, but he said we'll see, which is what they always say. (Unclear) they would have to pay for it and they are not going to pay for it. SQ So, that's what you need to take into consideration its just all of those issues there. There are some communities where it is not an issue at all and in some cities it's a big issue. In Cathedral City it is a big issue. Rancho Mirage has been talking about getting their Sister City Program started again, because they had a whole bunch of surplus equipment that they had to dismantle and they didn't want to dismantle it so they dismantled all of it so they thought about sending it down to Mexico, but to who, take it to the border. So they started thinking about a Sister City Program and they are leaning towards ... the Council members who have talked to me about it like the idea of a non-profit. Something that is separate from the City, but they would be willing to fund. JM So I'm still not sure of the answer I got. Are there two hybrids, or just one? MT Two hybrids. JM Okay. RH The City initiates and then determines what should be in the bylaws and says how many Council members should be on the board. The other, we initiate and do the bylaws and ask for two Council members to be on the board, let say, and do a contract to the City for contribution. JM Is that kind of what the City is looking at? MT I don't think that, everything you said was right Rolf except for part I think about the bylaws. I mean, the City may help us initiate the process and through the services of Mr. Q etc., I don't necessarily think that implies that the Council automatically has a hand in what our bylaws might be. RH If they initiate the whole process that is what he was saying. NJM I agree with Mark. RH One of the two hybrids would imply that. While the other hybrid doesn't that is simply based on the cooperation and the interest of the City itself of what it likes to see done. RMO So it is primarily the motivation and the initial stages that is going to (unclear). The initial stages will also lead into the control of the bylaws or not. MT Why does it necessitate that the Council draw up the bylaws? NJM I don't think it does. I think Buford was saying we can recommend anything we want. MT I know what Buford says. E:3 APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 RH We are just talking about models. The models and what he was saying is that one of the models would, as the City would want to, maybe other cities don't have the kind of relationship that we have with the Council, and maybe a city that says where the Council initiates this process, we want to form this as a non-profit and we're going to also determine what's going to be in the bylaws. Its just one model see what I'm saying. Then there is the other model that says well either to dialogue or we just say we jointly initiate this and the bylaws will stipulate certain things that we both can agree to and live with. DJD So what problems do we have over the past five years in which we have been reconstituted in doing a fairly good job of visibility and credibility that brings us to the point that we need to reinvent the wheel? RH Are you asking why we need to be a non-profit? DJD Why, if we are going along fairly smoothly at this stage of the game, do we need to do something else. BH The way it was put to me by more than one Council member was to ensure the success and longevity of the Committee. DG And Donna Jean I think several years ago, and those of you who might remember, that initially when the Committee was reactivated they did talk about it being community based at that time and there were a couple of members at least, over three or four years ago, that have always hoped that it would head in that direction. SG Why were here today is because a year ago (fire truck) getting the budget ready four out of five of the Council members told us to explore the non-profit and start moving forward to that process. This committee (unclear) researching it and coming back with a white paper on how to accomplish that, what the benefits would be, what potential problems there might be, that is why we are sitting here today talking, because Buford wasn't in attendance at that meeting, but we did get four giving us very specific and clear directions to look at this because they said it was always their intent this committee, Sister Cities Committee, become community based. We are back to the City Council now with a report they have all been provided with a copy. They are waiting for this committee's input on it and any further action is coming (unclear). But you asked why are we here and that's why. DJD We really are expected to change. SG I think the Council wants to see what they thought it was going to be community based, we haven't gone in that direction and they would like to see what the pros and the cons of it are, how do we get there, and still have a City tie to it, which is what the report covers from Carlos and I think that is going to be the bases for your presentation pretty much saying what are the different options allowed (unclear) it doesn't kick the sister city out, you still stay attached to the City of Palm Desert and we know from that standpoint, and Donna correct me, I have to leave in half-hour so you will be really glad, I think we are looking at it from the ti APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 standpoint of keeping the Sister Cities Committee as a huge part of the City of Palm Desert but with some autonomy. So you don't have, you have a greater opportunity to go out and move within the community. RH I think what it comes down to, like we said the last time and is especially addressed in the document that you sent out, of doing a full (unclear) based on what we know, based on the input that we have had, and to see if there are more pros to the non-profit approach, all based on the premise that we will have that connection with the City and, in my opinion, I would base it on the premise that we would have representation from the Council on the board in order to cement that relationship and some of the other things that we have discussed in terms of funding where we just need a formal process of how to manage that to a contract. I think that is what we need to do is go through a list and see if whether everybody buys into this and whether everybody is on the same page. MT Can we ask Steve, assuming that we we're looking at some sort of hybrid situation, what are the disadvantages for the committee, or downside, or potential for politics? SQ The politics could be good or bad. NJM You talk about perception from the community or the politics and the relationship between the Council and this committee. SQ It's control. SG And that could (unclear) no matter what I say. BH If we were to do a joint non-profit the way we stand today a three -two vote closes this committee completely from City Council, correct? SG Correct. BH And, then as one of the hybrids a three -two vote discontinues funding but the committee stays. SG Correct. MT Sorry Donna, we are subject to seasonal degrees of support might be a way of describing support from Council. SQ I can tell you right now in Cathedral City they do not have a majority on that Council, there are only four now, that support their Sister City Program, but I can tell you that the Sister Cities Committee is still operating. Independent of the Council and depending on the outcome of the election, they may be back in favor. So, but they're still out there doing whatever they're doing. SMO Would you say Steve that the Cathedral City's case, with the stats you have now, that the primary focus of the committee is fundraising efforts. 10 APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 SQ Yes, right now. DG Does Cathedral City supports them financially? SQ They have in the form of waiving permit fees to hold special events in the town square. Providing public safety services. RH But there is no budget that the City allocates to the ... NJM No funding. RH ...no funding. SQ But now, in the last couple of years every time the Sister Cities Committee came before Council and asked for in -kind services they were required to attach a number to that. DG Steve if they establish as a non-profit would that give, if City Council gives them an annual budget, even though they are a non-profit, does City Council then have any say on how they spend that budget, I guess they could put it in the bylaws, but, basically if the City agrees to give you $40,000 per year and this Committee goes back to them every year for a request for funding, once they receive that funding, can they spend it? SQ As the city attorney for cities that do this, I insist that the non-profit sign an agreement with the City. So I would sit down with the City and (unclear) the City that before you hand out $40,000 let's make sure that they are going to spend it for the reasons we're giving it and so we enter into a contribution agreement with the non -profits. RH I read that document contract that came out with the papers the Historical Society contract and unfortunately, whatever happened to changing the language to regular English, I mean the legalize, which could be condensed maybe into three paragraphs as to what this is supposed to say. As I understand this, that is a contract with the City that spells out the amount of money that is provided to the Historical Society and also mandates that the way this money is managed they have to report what they are doing with the money at a certain point, there is accountability, right, but, if I understood it correctly the money is not the allocation of the money is not based on a proposal. Is that correct? SG That's correct. RH So, it simply you ask them for a certain amount and then it simply accountability as to what did you do with that money. Rather than going to the Council and saying this is our plan for the year and this is what we want to do, which would give the Council a chance to say well we don't agree with this. That's not the case? SG That's right. RH Okay. 11 APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 SG The line item, by item, by item and requests from this committee becomes an approval process of line, by line, by line. If you have a contribution from the City for funding as to the Historical Society, they don't come in with a line item budget we just say okay our contribution maintain and continue the operation of the Historical Society is going to be $25,000 / $40,000, whatever, and they then go, yes once a year, this time of year, they come back with a reporting as to how they spent that money so we have an accounting for that money. RH Right, which then in turn obviously influences what the Council may do the following year, as like with the Historical Society. SG But they don't have to get Council approval for the expenditures. JM We have flexibility to do a new program if they think it's worthwhile they do it. DG In which we don't now and we have seen in the past where Council has committed on our behalf to funding some programs as well, that haven't been approved by this committee. And it is easy enough to go back to Council and ask for additional appropriations for that, but I think there is some concern about that too. SG Creates the public exposure to it again. DG Right, anytime it's on the agenda. PB If we stay the same as we are right now, we still can be a non-profit. Legally with a board, and there's no change in there. Do we come too independent completely, what (unclear). We have to pay insurance. SG It could all be part of the bylaws or the agreement with the City that the City provide financial accounting, I think you asked that question earlier, all of those things, the legal assistance... SQ You should have an attorney to provide pro bono services. MT Steve if you wouldn't mind leaving your business card there. Sheila, how specific when we go back with our recommendation to Council, how specific are we needed to be? One paragraph, should it be everything including bylaws... SG No. MT ...I didn't think so, but how specific do we need to be. SG I think you need to go back and say okay we discussed this and we think we should be, let's say, the status quo, keep the committee under the arm, we'll apply for the budget every year and we will continue to be (unclear) with the City. Or, we decided to go keeping it as a committee, but establishing a non-profit, let me back up for a minute, and the reasons why. And then next would be this would be an option keeping it as a committee, establishing a non-profit working in cooperation with the City and then the City Attorney's office would have to say 12 APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 any establishment (unclear) that this committee would be a huge player in the creation of the bylaws if it were a non-profit, and then maybe just have some (unclear) from the City and the reasons why you might feel that that was a good alternative. RH Can we stipulate, let's say the Committee decides it wants to go non-profit, but only under certain conditions. Can we then stipulate those conditions in the recommendation such as we would move to a non-profit if and then stipulate the contract, the legal contract, the insurance, those things. SG Absolutely. That's great way to moving it forward. MT I think we need to move things along one way or another I think we owe it to Council. DJD I think the thing we have to look at also is are the members of the Committee, who are now, if we go non-profit status, are we becoming fundraisers for Sister Cities almost ad infinitum. Most of us belong to other organizations and are constantly out, either its COD or the McCallum Theatre, or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, asking for support and another fundraising feather in my cap is really not what I am looking for, projects fine, but to go around the community week after week, month after month, soliciting for this organization, or that organization, I think we have to look at ourselves as individuals and say how much time are you willing to add to your agenda for Sister Cities fundraising. MT Donna Jean did you happen to get my email? Did anyone not receive this? SG I thought that was great, thank you. MT I agree with Donna Jean, that there are all sorts of issues, but the bottom line is I think, as I say in there, ends up who is prepared to get out on the streets. NJM You say be a fundraiser. MT That's correct. NJM I don't agree with that (unclear) have trouble asking people for funds. Me personally, and I know Patty does and I think maybe Rose Mary does... SG I want to jump in and say no. You will not become fundraisers. You are coming to the City for funding. I think if you had a process that you come and you had it in the budget in your funding request to the City and you wanted to do it bigger and you wanted to go out and raise the extra money. , JM You mean like the golf tournament. SG The golf tournament is a good example. DG And if you look at the Historical Society now has the City put pressure on them year -after -year to go out and raise more funds? I don't think they do, I think they 13 APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 give them typically what they request annually and the Historical Society does still go out and have fundraisers... JM They do a few things, but they don't go... DG ...so does this committee. RH In our last discussion I think John eluded to this that if we go that way initially we can look at say low risk because of the funding from the City, but as part of our long-term plan we would then address this issue and say how can we go beyond the golf tournament and establish certain fundraising activities on a regular basis, which then may allow us to reduce the subsidy of the City. SG What you have to remember is that the tickets that you sold for the trip to Ixtapa was huge with the City Attorney remember, and we went on and did it anyway, you didn't hear that, that would not be an issue as a non-profit you could go out and do those things with those Governmental Regulations that fall under Municipal Government. MT Perhaps we are not so much fundraisers, as I think that is a fear amongst the Committee, if I could identify one concern that you might have, but we could be squirrels and that means that we would do our fundraisers and probably we would be able to keep that money for a rainy day and one of those seasonal drought issues that we might have with the changing dynamics of Council. So, if like Cathedral City finds itself, for one reason or another in the Cathedral Cities Sister Cities, at the moment they might be going through a little bit of a dry spell with the City of Cathedral City and it may very well be that could happen to us. But, at the moment we might have extra funds and I think the year after next anything that we have left in our bank account will go straight back into the General Fund. So, you need to think about that too, whereas, if we were under a different status that wouldn't be an issue. We could still request that money from the City as we do, but it wouldn't matter if we had a bank account, unless that contravenes anything to do with non-profit status. DJD It does. Non -profits cannot have a back up of money they take that very seriously in most organizations. You can't stash it away year, after year. MT Is there a limit, or a time limit, or financial limit to how much you can have? SQ Well, you're not supposed to be in the business of making profit. But you need to always make sure that you are spending your money. You can say in five years I am going to raise this much money for this program or this project and have an account for that. BH What about designated funds for a certain, people contribute to designated funds, they designate this money for shipping of a fire truck three years from now, that money can be held just for that. You can raise funds in a designated way that can be earmarked and the interest on that money can then be used for your operations. So you can have quite a large sum of money built into a bank IE! APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 account used for shipping or the purchasing of supplies or something down the road. RMO It has to be specified. MT (Unclear) what that interpretation states that. JM Is there any way you can word our agreement that would some how guarantee funding from the City, unless there is some type of a mess up or in discriminatory use of funds on our end, or this or that. SG At the top of the (unclear) the budget. I think that is sort of how I always see it. This City Council is approving a budget for a year and they cannot commit beyond a year so you are going to have that with this sitting Council or if there are two new ones at the next election that could change. You never have that certainty even as a city committee. That political part of it is always there. You have the same Council people here for years so you have a good feel for the flavor of how to do things and what they are going to approve. We have been really lucky in that regard but we may not be forever. BH During the last election the questioning of the opponents running against the incumbents was is this a foolish project that you are spending $50,000 a year on Sister Cities we could (unclear) and we could not be sitting here today if the election had gone a different route. It could have been switched that quick and this is where being a non-profit generates longevity, like Mark was saying, we could sit through until the Council gets reappointed again and we can swing in favor again. Show them our projects and apply for (unclear). JM Scale down your activities for a while. BH You are constantly going out. You can write grants, you can apply for funding from different ways, which as a non-profit will come better to you than as part of a city committee. RMO That covers another issue, which I brought up before and that was the administrative aspect of a non-profit. I think how can that be designated and how can we ensure that we have that taken care of. MT Well, we have more latitude if you listen, again, go back to what Buford suggested that we could think a little bit out of the box. So, that could be part of our... JM Conditions. SG That could be listed right, what Rolf was saying, this is what we are recommending, you know conditioned upon these things being accomplished and that would be some type of assurance from the City that staffing would be provided, that could be one of the issues. NJM And that an office in City Hall would be provided. 15 APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 JM You heard them say that it is probably going to cost more because they may have to pay what we got from her that wasn't in the budget. So the budget from what we get from the City may be or we'll ask for more than we are getting now because it entails more things. MT Steve you have had a chance to listen to us now for about almost an hour, are there any parting comments you have for us? SQ I would suggest that, I don't know how much discussion you have had with the City Council as a body, or subcommittee, but I would suggest that you go to your Council and you ask your Council what sort of relationship do you want to have with us. I would ask them. They may say well we want to continue to fund you but we don't want to go obviously (unclear) we want to continue to provide resources and some steady funding, but you need to organize it yourself. So, I would ask them because no matter what that relationship is going to be they can always structure a non-profit to accommodate that relationship. I would encourage you to stay focus on trying to define what the relationship is and I could come back and draft bylaws for you. So that's what your focus should be on. DJD I think the other thing that we have to think about is the fact that our programs are intelligent and still going forward in a manner that we have been going forward, I don't think the Council, under any circumstances except the extreme drought of saying gee, all of a sudden you are persona non grata, I just think that is not going to happen whether it be the funding or the program or anything else, if we come up with a series of outlandish ideas over a year than I think we deserve to be disinherited sort of speak. I don't see that happening because we have longevity in that respect there may be other things that come along as with other organizations and in that case maybe sister cities is no longer important point -of -view for any city. We don't' know what the years are going to bring. But, I really think that what we do and how we do it is equally as important as to, in addition to the funding that we get. NJM I agree, and I think if the Council didn't support this Committee they would have to examine what we we're doing and how we lost that faith exactly. That would be a thing that we should say we need to re-examine what we are going because we don't have their support. DG And even if you get new Council members at some point it is the job of this board as a non-profit to bring them in and tell them about the programs and show them the value of the program. RMO I do see two positive things coming right now and I think the timing. The timing may be right for us to explore this thoroughly and really come up with the pros and cons and have control over those bylaws at this point when we have a good relationship with the City Council, and as you said, we have credibility, we have history, and we have had enjoyed a tremendously positive relationship with the Council so I think the timing is very important and the fact that they will allow us to put down certain conditions that we feel are important, and I think one of the things that have gotten us in a different direction, to be honest with you, is the 16 APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 fact that you brought up, it may not be the same in two or three years from now. Other elections that may be coming so I think that for us to look at this now, to explore it thoroughly, to come down with a proposal that we can present to the Council, I think that would be a very positive thing. But I do think that we need to be very careful in stipulating what we would like to have. MT Right, okay. SQ I think at looking I would like to make one observation, I've met with a lot of sister cities committees in other cities just as a guest to talk about non-profit issues and I'll tell you I have never seen a group this big. MT So is this a good thing? SQ It is a very good thing, because every time I meet with a group of people who want to get a non-profit together I always tell them you need at least five real hard working people to get committed to this process at least five. I'm usually talking to two or three people. There aren't a lot of people who can go out there and raise a lot of money. I think a non-profit is a good idea in the long run, well you know why it's so easy I can tell you that one person in this room has contributed a lot of money to the Sister City Committee in Cathedral City. There are people like him in the community and people like me in the community who are willing to give back to our communities and when I decide to give every year to organizations I look at those kinds of organizations that are involved in cultural exchange that is real important to people like me and important to people like Alibaba. There is a lot of people like that out there. I enjoy giving money to the Boys & Girls Club because I believe in that organization. So if you become one of those organizations out there, that are trusted, that consist of a membership and a board that's well known in the community and has a great reputation in the community you won't have any problems of raising money, and you are also going to demonstrate for the City Council, who is going to be your sponsor, that they got a community based organization out there that is doing something great for the community, and that makes it even easier to give you more money. I mean this is all about putting together programs; cultural exchange, education, and you can't do that without any money. Don't forget it's all about raising money. AF What you said, and I am aware of, that you have also been on the board of three or four other sister cities and they fail without the Council support. He just wanted to let everyone know that sister cities without Council support they fail. I know four other sister cities in Southern California that I have been involved, two of them in the Valley and other two in Southern California they failed because Council did not support them. Without Council support I don't know. SQ They are not doing anything proactive right now as far as what they used to do because they don't have a political support right now, but they are still there. SG However, as a committee without the City Council the committee could be dissolved and gone and as a non-profit the committee would remain and could continue working within the community for the benefit of the Sister Cities 17 APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 Program and come back and present to the City Council if there are new ones and there are going to be new people sitting at the table and there are going to be new staff members so all of that change is inevitable with the City. To me, when Donna, Carlos, Stephen, and I sat down to do this it was we have a great Sister Cities Program and we never thought it would get off the ground like it has and this group of people have done that. You guys have just done a tremendous job we are all looking at five years down the road, ten years down the road, and the changes and community might have probably keep that stable, how do we keep it safe, how do we keep it out there and active in the community for the future, and I think that is the basis for coming forward, I think that is the basis of the question by City Council, how do we do this now and in the future, we won't all be here. SQ I have some sample bylaws and sample articles of incorporation. ALL Thank you very much Steve for speaking to us. MT Just before we close I think we need a little bit of closer on this today. Where do we go from here? Anybody have any ideas? BH My question to you is when do you want to cement this? How soon? MT I think they are looking at their budgets right about now so out of courtesy we should be responding I think the City officials have put forth their white paper and I don't want us to be dragging the chain appears to be what the Council is waiting for, so, we are now in March and it would be nice if at our next meeting... BH Are you going to be here for our next meeting? MT ...no, that's why I would have my input in the next few days. BH I'm in the same boat, so. RH The question is as Donna Jean mentioned if it needs further discussion and we need to make sure that everybody is on the same page so the question is do we ask for another meeting specifically for this particular issue in order to discuss it and at that meeting come to a conclusion and recommendation setting up a working group to do whatever the decision is at that point. NJM Because it affects all of us I think the working group would probably be the entire community because I don't think anybody would want to miss that. So perhaps we could get together and just put a big piece of paper here and say what is important. RMO I like the idea of coming and talking to the Council... NJM I do to. I asked at that last meeting, I said can we... RMO ...whether we (unclear) to meet with us so that we could have a nice face-to-face dialogue with them and we could have some... EN" APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 MT Don't you think by now that we know what they want? NJM Maybe it's changed in the last year. RMO ...I have talked to a couple of them and I get sometimes a different feeling so I think it would be for all of us to request that somebody from Council meet with us. BH We had Buford here a few moments ago and I think they're sending, Sheila and representing their feelings... RMO I know from my (unclear) I'm saying sit down and have a dialogue with them and go into some of these questions that Steven (unclear). Do you want to etc., etc? Have a series of questions that we might ask them. DG We did have a preliminary budget meeting with City Council I believe there were three in attendance at that time, and when the white paper was presented and drafted to them one of the comments was all I can say is thank you, thank you, thank you. The others said good job. So that is three out of the five. MT Where any of those three represented in this room here today? DG No. MT That's four. And how many are on Council? BH Five. MT I knew that. DG And that was just four weeks ago. RH Without any, I'm relatively new on this committee and don't have the history, but all of the signals I have read since I joined is you gotta move in that direction. Now, to me the only question is what model are we going to be using and that is really our decision not the Councils. In the sense of I think we are all in agreement that yea we need the Councils support and the Council's money so we need to formulate that and in terms of a proposal if we decide to yea we want to go non-profit to formulate that in terms of a proposal to the Council as to what the conditions are under which we would move to a non-profit. DG I have a feeling that they may be very, several of the Council members that will be very happy if you even take a baby step toward becoming more community based. If that is just becoming a non-profit but still a city committee, great. It is a step in that direction and you're showing... JM I don't think anyone wants to go total non-profit. Okay. So, why take a baby step when you can say we're going non-profit with your support and your financial support and ask for good things, while we're at it, because down the line you might not get as much. I think now they're going to be prepared, as long as we're reasonable, to give us a pretty good deal. APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 DJD I agree. The handwriting is on the wall. RMO I agree with that. That's why I said I think the time is right. I think all five of them want us to go in that direction it's a matter of degree. MT Bear in mind for everyone that didn't get the other white paper Schedule B was a needs analysis and I had tangible needs and intangible needs. Forget about the intangible ones that's why they are called intangible. So if we can just focus for a moment on the tangible needs is there anything I may have missed or you may want to add, because frankly my... NJM Mark, there was something. MT ...I was trying to get some sort of resolve not to go so far as to actually making some recommendation to Council, but trying to get some feedback from this committee. RH The support, the financial support from the Council should be under tangible not intangible. It is definitely tangible. MT Yup it is. I was thinking about the change and then the Council might change. There is one other thing I was going to suggest is that perhaps we could put something together for consideration by the Committee. In other words, put together a draft recommendation and then that could be digested by the Committee and comments could be received I think they could be individual comments; we have to be careful there and/or solicit comments by email. NJM Mark how about if you just added financial support and two Council members serving on our committee. DG I don't think we need to. MT No. DG I don't think you need to get that detailed. MT No, we don't. DG What we can do today Mark, if you like, is if we can put it on the next agenda for April. In the meantime, I can draft out with Mark as Chairman, we can draft out a draft of an outline of conditions and present it at the next meeting. That way the Chairman will have input since he won't be at the next meeting he will at least have input. DJD Surely the information that this gentleman gave us, Steve, is relevant. We heard what he had to say, but we don't know what the written material is there. So that can be all encompassed in and perhaps at some point and time to just get the advice of our City Attorney we have this gentleman who has offered to do anything for us and he is probably a pro at what he is doing. 20 APPROVED SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES PALM DESERT SISTER CITIES COMMITTEE MARCH 24, 2005 RH But I would circulate that draft before the meeting. MT Yes. NJM Change the property and liability and workers' comp insurance. MT I thought I had workers' comp insurance in there. It might be actually in addition to. NJM Liability is also in there. Property liability and workers' comp MT I extracted most of that but from the various cities. DG Mark maybe you and I can get together next week and draft a recommendation and get it out next week even. MT This meeting is adjourned. Ms. Darby moved that this item be adjourned to the next meeting of April 21, 2005. Motion was seconded by Ms. Ortega and carried unanimously by a show of hands. 9-0 V. ADJOURNMENT With Committee concurrence, the meeting was adjourned at 3:10 p.m. U l'r�y� Lori Wi bish, Recording Secretary 21