HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Public Safety Commission 09/13/06 �-��-�
CITY OF PALM DESERT
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION
APPROVED MINUTES
''� , .
Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 3:30 p.m.
Administrative Conference Room
I. CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 3:30 p.m. by Chairman Rick Lebel.
II. ROLL CALL
Present:
Commissioner James Butzbach
Vice Chairman Gloria Kirkwood
Commissioner Jim Larsh
Commissioner Martin Nethery
Chairman Rick Lebel
Also Present:
Mayor Jim Ferguson
Councilman Richard S. Kelly
Sheila R. Gilligan, ACM for Community Services
Steve Thetford, Asst. Chief, Palm Desert Police Department
Walt Holtoway, Battalion Chief, Palm Desert/Riverside County Fire Dept
Mark Greenwood, Director of Public Works
Hart Ponder, Code Compliance Manager
Frankie Riddle, Director of Special Programs
Pat Scully, Senior Management Analyst
Mary P. Gates, Recording Secretary
III. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
CITY COI�NCTL ACT'ION:
None APPROVED � DENIED
1tECFIVED_�T�— OTHER
MBBTING DATE
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NOES• p�e.
�,asENT. �Ione.
ABSTATN: one� '
VERIFIED BY•
Original on•File with City Clerk's Office
APPROVED MINUTES
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 13, 2006
IV. CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Approval of Minutes of the June 14, 2006, Public Safety Commission
Meeting.
Commissioner Butzbach noted that the medical marijuana verbatim
transcript referred to the City of Rockland, and it should actually be
the City of Rocklin.
With that correction, Commissioner Nethery moved to approve the Consent
Calendar. Motion was seconded by Commissioner Butzbach and carried by a 5-0 vote.
V. CONSENT ITEMS HELD OVER
None
VI. NEW BUSINESS
A. Palm Desert Fire Services Monthly Report for May, June, and July
2006.
Mrs. Gilligan noted that Chief Otero had been promoted to Deputy
Chief in charge of Eastern Riverside County. Dennis Dawson had
been appointed Chief in his place, and staff would make sure he
receives the Public Safety Commission Agenda in the future.
Commissioner Butzbach moved to, by Minute Motion, receive and file the Palm
Desert Fire Services Monthly Report for May, June, and July 2006. Motion was seconded
by Commissioner Larsh and carried by a 5-0 vote.
B. Palm Desert Special Teams Monthly Statistics for June and July
2006.
Chairman Lebel thanked Deputies DaSilva and Tapp for all of their
hard work as part of the Palm Desert Target Team.
Vice Chairman Kirkwood moved to, by Minute Motion, receive and file the Palm
Desert Special Teams Monthly Statistics for June and July 2006. Motion was seconded
by Commissioner Larsh and carried by a 5-0 vote.
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C. Palm Desert Station - Traffic Collision Statistics for May and June
2006.
Commissioner Larsh moved to, by Minute Motion, receive and file the Traffic
Collision Statistics for May and June 2006. Motion was seconded by Vice Chairman
Kirkwood and carried by a 5-0 vote.
D. Correspondence from Citizen Sandra Coleman Relative to Concerns
About Traffic Circulation in and around Canyon National Bank and the
Adjacent Church Parking Lot on Country Club Drive
Mrs. Gilligan noted that while the initial correspondence from Ms.
Coleman was addressed to the Public Safety Commission, it was
directed to staff and the Police Department for response due to the
timing of the Public Safety Commission meetings. Ms. Coleman had
been advised and understood thatthe City had no jurisdiction overthe
area in question, as it was private property.
Lt. Thetford added that while the church had a sign advising people
of inerging traffic, the problem was with people coming from the bank
parking lot. He noted that the misunderstanding was with whether or
not this violated any City ordinances, but there was nothing for the
Sheriff's Department to enforce,as this was a design/engineering flaw
with the way the property sits right now.
Commissioner Butzbach expressed concern with the City being
exposed to liability for allowing such a condition to exist, even though
it is on private property.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelly noted that the City had approved the design of
the parking lot, and the City may have some liability because of that.
Commissioner Nethery asked if there was anything the City's
Planning or Building Departments could do, since the design was
apparently not working out as well as it should.
Chairman Lebel suggested that the City place a sign at the street
entrance cautioning drivers about the blind driveway.
Mr. Greenwood responded that even that would have to occur on the
private property and would have to be voluntary by the property
owners. He noted that in the State of California, if a property owner
identifies an issue like that, they are responsible for it. If they knew
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PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 13, 2006
enough about the problem to put a sign up, they should have fixed it
rather than put up the sign.
Lt. Thetford noted that he had looked at the area. There was some
signage advising of the merge, although he was not sure additional
signage would fix the problem. He said he felt a "T" intersection
would probably be safer than the "Y" intersection currently there, and
cutting down some of the foliage would probably solve the problem.
However, the Police Department could not require the property owner
to do that.
Mr. Greenwood stated this was really the responsibility of the property
owners. A letter could be sent advising them that this matter has
come to the attention of the City and asking that they please see what
they can do to resolve the situation.
Lt. Thetford said he felt this would meet the Police Department's
requirement as far as bringing this problem to their attention; however,
he asked whether the City or Police Department would incur liability
by knowing about it and not doing anything. He felt putting the
property owner on notice would put the City/Police Department in a
better situation to defend any liability.
Chairman Lebel said he felt this would be an appropriate position to
take. He asked if it would be appropriate for the letter to indicate that
a citizen has made a complaint and expressed concern, the matter
has been reviewed by appropriate City departments, it has been
noticed that the area in question is on private property, the citizen has
been so advised, and it appears the property owner can do something
to help resolve the situation.
Mr. Greenwood said staff would send a letter to each of the property
managers/owners to let them know this issue has come up and ask
that they address it.
Mayor Ferguson suggested that the letter be reviewed and approved
by the City Attorney prior to mailing.
The Commission agreed.
Mayor Pro Tem Kelly left the meeting at 4:10 p.m.
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PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 13, 2006
E. Request for Acceptance of Cal COPS (Supplemental Law
Enforcement Services Funding - SLESF) Grant Award
Commissioner Nethery noted that Lt. Thetford had indicated in the
staff report the "proposed use" of the funds, and he asked if that
meant there was some flexibility in how the funds are used as long as
that use falls within the guidelines of the grant.
Lt. Thetford responded that the Police Department had flexibility
throughout the year to change how the money is spent. He noted that
in the past, the Department had been allowed to buy furnishings for
the new substation, which was something not allowed in the way the
grant was initially written. In orderto get around that, the Department
went to the Commission for Cal COPS and was awarded an
exemption. He said if a disaster, emergency, or major event were to
arise in the near future, and funds were needed to support the Police
Department's operation, those funds could be diverted for that use.
Commissioner Butzbach moved to, by Minute Motion, concur with the Police
Department's proposal and recommend to the City Council acceptance of the Cal COPS
(Supplemental Law Enforcement Services Funding- SLESF) Grant Award of$100,000 to
be used to cover the cost for the 2006 Holiday Theft Suppression Program, support the
Special Enforcement Team's programs, vehicle, and communications expense, and the
acquisition of necessary equipment to support front line law enforcement services. Motion
was seconded by Commissioner Larsh and carried by a 5-0 vote.
F. I nformational Items
1. Email Relative to 2006/07 California State Budget Public
Safety Issues
Informational item only— no action taken.
2. Correspondence from Assemblyman John Benoit Relative to
2006/07 Funding for CVAG Priority Public Safety Programs
Informational item only— no action taken.
3. Desert Sun Article of July 13, 2006, Entitled, "Fisherman's
Wharf Pot Club Tests New San Francisco Law"
Informational item only— no action taken.
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4. 10'h Annual Peace Officer & Public Safety Appreciation Day
and Awards Luncheon - 11/21/06 at Desert Springs Marriott
Upon question by Ms. Scully, all five Commissioners indicated
they wished to attend this luncheon.
5. Update on Trauma Intervention Programs, Inc. (TIP)
Lt. Thetford noted that he felt this was a good resource and a
good quality of life program. He stated that a CVAG
committee would be discussing it, and there was a possibility
the program could be reinstated; however, at this point, it had
been suspended.
VII. CONTINUED BUSINESS
A. Update on Video Surveillance Pilot Program (continued from the
meeting of June 14, 2006)
Lt. Thetford provided a brief history of this pilot program. The
Committee felt it should be done on a limited basis for the first year
to see how many businesses actually participate. He noted the staff
report in the packets and offered to answer any questions. Upon
question by Chairman Lebel, he said the proposal was to initially have
the program for one year and open it up to ten businesses, with the
cost to be included in the next fiscal year's budget cycle.
Chairman Lebel asked whether there had been any discussion
relative to periodic evaluation of the program.
Ms. Scully responded that the Committee determined this would be
a function of the City's Code Enforcement Department, and there
would be continuous monitoring of the program to ensure compliance
with the type of equipment, maintenance, etc.
Lt. Thetford added that the program would be monitored for
effectiveness of the cameras for the ten businesses, and this data
could then be used to show other businesses that it is a viable
program. He noted that the proposal also included equipment
specifications in order to ensure the highest quality video to assist law
enforcement in identifying criminals. While the original proposed
ordinance was just for convenience stores,the Committee decided to
open up the program to all retail.
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Mr. Ponder stated that research showed that cities with this type of
surveillance ordinance in place have reduced their crime rates by up
to 40% in some cases.
Upon question by Commissioner Nethery, Lt.Thetford responded that
the budget would include $3,000 per system.
With regard to the cost of Code Enforcement personnel, Ms. Scully
noted that Mr. Ponder had indicated a willingness to take on that duty
for the one-year period; if the program were to continue after that, he
would prepare a White Paper for presentation to City Council to add
staff.
Commissioner Nethery asked whetherthere had been anydiscussion
relative to having these businesses contribute to the cost of the
system. Lt. Thetford responded that the Committee's proposal was
to have the businesses contribute to the cost, with the City to match
them 50/50. Ms. Scully added that the businesses would also have
to comply with the regulations that will be established for the type of
equipment and agree to have the monitoring by Code Enforcement.
Upon further question by Commissioner Nethery with regard to what
would happen if more than 10 businesses came forward wanting to
participate, staff responded that this was something that would have
to be considered. Commissioner Nethery stated he felt it would be
interesting to look at other cities to see how they have dealt with this
type of situation. He said he felt it would be difficult to force existing
businesses to participate and suggested the program be limited to
new businesses. Ms. Scully noted that in discussing this with the City
Attorney, he said businesses already in existence would be
grandfathered in under the ordinances that were in effect when they
took out their business licenses.
Commissioner Butzbach moved to, by Minute Motion, approve the pilot video
surveillance program and direct staff to develop specific program standards and prepare
a program budget for submission during the annual upcoming budgetary process.
Commissioner Nethery asked whether there was time for staff to
develop the pilot program, taking into account comments made, and
bring the program back to the Commission for a recommendation to
the City Council.
Ms. Scully responded that this was the Committee's original intent.
She said members of the Committee would get together, develop
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PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 13, 2006
standards, and bring specific program details to the Public Safety
Commission, including the application form.
Commissioner Butzbach withdrew his motion.
Commissioner Nethery moved to, by Minute Motion, direct staff to develop the
program details in light of the comments made at this meeting and bring the entire program
back to the Public Safety Commission as soon as possible (at the November meeting) so
the Commission can make a recommendation to the City Council. Motion was seconded
by Commissioner Larsh and carried by a 5-0 vote.
VIII. OLD BUSiNESS
A. Review and Recommendation to the City Council Relative to an
Ordinance Either Banning Medical Marijuana Dispensaries in the City
of Palm Desert or Allowing Same with Specific Restrictions
The following is a verbatim transcript of this portion of the meeting:
�
RL Chairman Rick Lebel
JL Commissioner Jim Larsh
SRG Sheila R. Gilligan, ACM for Community Services
ST Lt. Steve Thetford, Sheriff's Department
JF Mayor Jim Ferguson
MN Commissioner Marty Nethery
GK Commissioner Gloria Kirkwood
PS Pat Scully, Senior Management Analyst
HP Hart Ponder, Code Compliance Manager
JB Commissioner Jim Butzbach
RL At this point we're under Old Business...Review and Recommendation to the City
Council Relative to an Ordinance Either Banning Medical Marijuana Dispensaries
in the City of Palm Desert or Allowing Same with Specific Restrictions. I know this
is an issue we've dealt with for some time, and as we left it last, the City Attorney
was going to look at that.
JL There's no City Attorney here.
RL There's no City Attorney here.
SRG He was scheduled to be, but...
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RL I do know that this afternoon at 1:30, the County of Riverside, the Planning
Commission for the County of Riverside, was having an open hearing in La Quinta
regarding the same issue, and the County has proposed an ordinance...excuse me,
the Planning Commission has proposed an ordinance forthe County's review, and
as we speak, there are perhaps 30 or 40 people over there at the City Council
Chambers speaking on behalf of and in support of or in opposition to the ordinance
that the County has proposed. I did make a copy off the County's website of the
proposed ordinance, and iYs being passed out to us as we speak. The County has
taken the position to provide an ordinance which would provide some specifications
and restrictions regarding medical marijuana dispensaries or medical marijuana
cooperatives, though neither dispensaries nor cooperatives are defined under the
Health & Safety Code. There was a proponent for, in this afternoon's presentation,
a proponent for the ordinance that indicated that dispensaries and medical
marijuana cooperatives are in fact defined under Senate Bill 420. I'm not sure
whether Senate Bill 420 is just a Senate Bill or whether it's been chaptered and
signed into law by the Governor, so that's something to be considered, perhaps to
take a look at. Do we have any report from staff regarding this item?
SRG I'll defer to Lt. Thetford. There is a committee that has been working with the City
Attorney and our P�anning Department and our City Manager. Lt. Thetford is a key
player in that, so I'll turn it over to you.
ST Well, as you know, we were both sitting at the same meeting. My intent when I
went to the meeting was to just sit down and listen to hear what they had to say,
since I wasn't able to make the meeting in Riverside. This is the east end of the
County's opportunity to have a hearing. We did have Sheriff representation there
to listen to the hearing over there. I might add that what you're looking at, just so
I can give you the lay of the land here, the first two pages is not exactly the
ordinance. There's actually a draft ordinance. What you're looking at behind it with
the memorandum...that ordinance is the proposed ordinance from the marijuana
advocacy group. And the reason why I point that out is because when I first sat
down, this was passed out by the advocacy group, and I thought this was what the
County of Riverside Planning Department was proposing, and it is not. This is their
proposed amendment.
RL This is off the County's website.
ST I know. They put it up because it was submitted by Lanny Swardlow.
RL I see.
ST And the reason why I don't....l looked for two specific things when I first looked into
it. Number one, I looked for the requirement to have a medical marijuana card,
which is not in this ordinance, which I knew there was something up. So one of two
things...either the County wavered and decided to take that recommendation out
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after listening to Lanny, or this was not their ordinance. The second thing I looked
at was where were the requirements they were putting upon the Sheriff's
Department or law enforcement in general. And in this ordinance, it talks about law
enforcement taking the letters of recommendation just on face value and moving on
without telling us exactly how we were supposed to do that. So I knew something
was up. Mr. Harrod, who is noticed on the first page, he's the Project Planner, he
actually handed out the true draft, and I will make sure that the Committee gets that
as well as Council, and iYs what the County is proposing. And what it does....at that
point, when I saw there was a difference, I made sure that I had the opportunity to
speak. Again, I was going to see what was said, and I was going to leave and get
to this meeting, but as soon as I saw that Lanny had a change of heart here,
keeping in mind Mr. Swardlow's position has changed. When he invited Captain
Kilday and myself to his meeting, his medical marijuana meeting, he was a strong
advocate and supporter of the medical marijuana I.D. card program because
that...he supported the fact that that was the only way that his people were not
going to be harassed.
RL Right.
ST And that was what we should do, and that was when he was basically good friends
and in cooperation with all of the dispensaries. Well, I got the feeling at this meeting
that he's no longer in good graces with the dispensaries. As a matter of fact, he
was bashing the dispensaries for charging too much money for marijuana. He's
now siding with, you know, we shouldn't even have dispensaries, we should have
co-ops where groups of people, six or more, should be able to grow marijuana at
a common residence and be able to make marijuana cheaper.
RL Correct.
ST And he talked about Proposition 215...
RL (unclear} he did propose that.
ST ...he spoke about Proposition 215 and the Compassionate Use Act, which
specifically stated that the purpose of this is so that people that need marijuana can
get it safely and cost-effectively. That was his platform. It's not cost-effective to go
to dispensaries any more when before that was his platform...you need to go to
dispensaries because thaYs the only way to do it...and then his other is cost-
effective, which I didn't hear him say but I knew it was coming was...if you charge
$150 for a medical marijuana card, how is that cost-effective for individuals. So I
got up and spoke to the Planning Board, and I posed our position from law
enforcement, both from a representative of the Riverside Sheriff's Department, and
I also made sure that they understood that I was also representing the Palm Desert
Police Department. I mentioned the fact that we do have a dispensary, we've been
dealing with this issue for quite a while, our experience with our dispensary so far,
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after we worked out some of the rough edges, they've been professional and
worked cooperatively with us to try and come to a resolution. I wasn't advocating
the use of nor the restriction of it, I was talking purely from a position of what your
law enforcement agency in Riverside County and Palm Desert have to deal with.
And I strongly recommended that they maintain the requirement to have a medical
marijuana card stay in their ordinance. I also mentioned to them that there were a
couple of things in Lanny's draft, or Mr. Swardlow's draft, that was a little bit
problematic. IYs always interesting to me when people say law enforcement will do
this but don't tell us exactly how we're supposed to do, which is what our biggest
problem with the medical marijuana law is because it doesn't really tell law
enforcement how we're supposed to deal with it. And it might be of interest to the
City of Palm Desert that the people that were there to get ready to speak to the
Planning Commission were the same line of people that were here to talk to you.
I venture to guess, and I didn't get a chance to say this, and I wish I had, to the
Commission, I would pose one thought to you. Ask each one of these people
where they're from, and note the fact of how many of them actually live in Riverside
County.
RL There is a lady that spoke representing nine years of work as a medical marijuana
dispensary in Marin County. There's a gentleman from Las Vegas who drove four
and a half hours to speak in favor of. There was a gentleman from San Bernardino
County indicating that at least Riverside County was concerned with compassionate
use, and San Bernardino County was kicking them out the door, so they had to
come to Palm Desert to get their supplies.
ST I explained one more thing to the Commission, or to the Planning Commission. I
brought to their attention the definition of a primary care giver as defined by the law
is one individual who cares for a group of people and is their primary care source.
What we're seeing in the field is these medical marijuana letters with multiple
colored little dots on them, and from our interviews from talking to the subjects that
we're contacting with marijuana who had an overabundance of marijuana,we found
out that, yes, Canna Help is their primary care giver. So are finro different places in
Palm Springs. So they buy their marijuana here, and then they go over and buy
there, and they go buy there. So they're not really going with the spirit of the law
and the way the law is intended. I apologized to the Commission for not befng able
to stick around and answer questions. I would have loved to, but I said if you have
questions please ask me. The only question I was really asked was, since they
knew that Palm Desert had been dealing with it, they asked me what Palm Desert's
position was at this point. I explained to them that, you know, we've looked at the
issue, we do have a dispensary that is up and running in our city. We haven't
had...have we had our little problems? Yes. Do we have a major issue with them
from a law enforcement perspective? No, we don't. We've been trying to work
cooperatively in the spirit of the way the law is written, and the City of Palm Desert
right now is looking at an ordinance. Now, whether we're going to go with an
ordinance or not, I don't know, but I have seen a draft ordinance from the City of
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Palm Desert, they've asked me how it compared to the County draft, I said it's
extremely similar, very similar, in the fact that it does require a medical marijuana
card, in the fact that it does require extra security on the property, in the fact that it
does require a specific zone. I didn't get into the specifics of the fact that our zoning
put Canna Help in the wrong place. But we do pa�allel them in that position. I told
them that we are in the process of still dealing with, and I told them also that we
may be watching the County to see what they do. I think it's important for us to see
what they do because whichever direction we go, and if we decide that we're going
to go in a regulation mode, then we probably should see what they do so we don't
have a major conflict with them, not that we couldn't make it more restrictive. It
would be nice if we fell in line with the restrictions they had and even maybe stricter
if we agree with what they're doing. So that was kind of how I left it, and you stayed
longer than I did. But things I will do....l will provide the current draft from the
Planning Commission to the Commission and the Council and this body, so you'll
have that as well.
RL There were supporters there, including Lanny, there were more than he, that
indicated to County Counsel that they had no authority whatsoever to be more
restrictive than the State.
ST Yes, he specifically stated that it was against the law for them to require medical
marijuana cards. And I'm not an attorney, but that's not what our attorneys are
telling us. As a matter of fact, our attorneys are telling us quite the contrary. If you
read the spirit of the way it's written, it goes into great detail on setting up the
medical marijuana card system.
RL It sure does.
ST And I made the point to say that, you know,there are multiple flaws in this law. One
of the flaws is if we don't require medical marijuana cards, we'll have a situation like
we had recently. A kid went into...an individual went into Canna Help and presented
a false letter. Canna Help, in their best interests, looked at it, had the time to take,
you know, 35, 45 minutes to an hour to try and verify this guy's letter to find out that
it was a fraudulent letter. And I use the fraudulent term in meaning that it was not
legitimate, not in the legal term meaning it's a violation of the law. They brought it
to out attention in good faith, and we looked into it. IYs not a violation of the law to
put one of these letters together...it's not a violation of the law. It is a violation of the
law, by the code, to falsely make a medical marijuana card, so this person pretty
much was allowed to walk, and we documented the incident. IYs the way the
verbiage in the law is. But we do have it documented. But I made that point
because that also hampers law enforcement. My whole point with them was
whichever direction the County goes, whichever direction the City goes, don't...and
you're going to hear this line of people that are going to tell you about the value of
it. I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing give your law enforcement the ability to deal
with it in the field. Mr. Swardlow was a major advocate in the fact that if we had
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medical marijuana cards, if we stopped somebody and ran this card, they'd be out
of there in five to ten minutes versus...now his platform is this letter that would take
us, if it was during regular business hours, up to an hour, and you want your law
enforcement officer tied up for an hour trying to verify a medical marijuana case?
Their intent is to have us turn a blind eye and let it move on without questioning it,
and I don't think that's appropriate.
RL It was interesting that the lady from Marin County who runs a medical marijuana
dispensary at that location and a cooperative has 4,000 patients, 4,000 qualified
patients. She's been doing it for nine years. They spent the first six months running
the riffraff out of town and the trash out of town. One of the things that they do is
to require an identification card. In fact, it was her specific business, according to
her, that assisted the State in developing the standards for identification cards. And
she felt very positively that an identification card should be required. Anyway, as
I recall, and according to our minutes of the last meeting, we kind of left it that...
SRG City Attorney
RL ...with the City Attorney to develop a proposal that would try to restrict it as well as
develop a proposal...
JL He was going to do two, he was going to do one restrictive...
RL Correct
JL ...and one (unclear)
?? One that would prohibit.
SRG The City Attorney was to be here, but we will reagendize it and make sure someone
from his office is here next time, but...
(Unclear)
SRG ...met with Assemblyman Benoit about the language of the bill, the law. Have you
heard anything...you gave him...
ST I have heard from him. I met him at the groundbreaking for Xavier High School, and
I was directed to provide him with a one-inch stack of paperwork, similar to what I
provided, almost identical to what I provided to our City Council and also to our City
Attorney. I provided it to him and had a short conversation with him and explained
to him what our main issue was, and our main issue was the verbiage and the
vagueness of it from a law enforcement perspective, again not from the ethical
perspective of is it right or wrong. But the way the law reads right now is
problematic, and we asked him to look into it. He took it on submission. I then saw
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him at a meeting probably two months ago at another location, and basically, the
impression I had was that they weren't going to do anything with it because iYs one
of those issues that I don't think anybody wants to touch. Anybody that is actually
dealing with the issue is commendable. From a political perspective, iYs my
impression that it was dangerous for anybody to touch it. You know, the people that
are actually going out and addressing the issue, again, from a law enforcement
perspective, I still stand on the position that you have a conflict between Federal
and State law, but I have to abide by the law, and our direction from our agency is
we will recognize California law until we're told otherwise. San Bernardino and San
Diego have the opposite perspective. Their agencies are telling them no, we don't
recognize it, so we go with what our law enforcement agency tells us to, and if the
City has an ordinance that is more restrictive,that helps us out, you know...we were
ahead of the County for a long time, and they finally jumped in because now iYs
affecting them.
RL I still have a question as to where it appears in the Health & Safety Code that...or
defined... where medical marijuana cooperative or medical marijuana dispensary
is defined. I don't find it in the Health & Safety Code. I ran copies of both sections
of the Health & Safety Code that addressed that. I shouldn't say sections...both
chapters. Sections 11362.7 through 11362.83, and Health &Safety Code Sections
11357 through 11362.9.
ST That's the issue with the way that whole section is written. You have different
people reading into it with their own interpretations, and there are very few
absolutes. The only absolute thing in this whole law is what the title is, the
Compassionate Use Act. I don't argue the point that we have people that are
critically ill and that this might be a viable solution to them. And I think there is
evidence to prove that that may be the case, and I think thaYs about the only thing
in my opinion that is solid in this law. The issue of what defines a cooperative,what
defines a primary care giver...is defined, in my mind, and I interpret it different than
the advocates do; however, there is nothing to back it up from a perspective....what
if you get somebody who is not abiding by the primary care giver, which is what we
have now? What happens if somebody does have a letter thaYs not a legitimate
letter`? That's where the loopholes are in the law. When we met with...when we
were invited to Mr. Swardlow's TV show and sat down in front of a group of people
and answered a barrage of questions, one of the biggest questions we got was
regarding cultivation of marijuana and how do we, as law enforcement, define how
much is under...well, it's a canopy formula that defines how many plants are under
a canopy. And the answer is, even from our marijuana experts is, you'll get ten
different answers if you talk to ten different experts. So there is a definition issue
there. They like to paint it as a (unclear) issue, and iYs not.
RL There is a definition issue, and I'm concerned, at least one of my concerns is why
should we define a medical marijuana dispensary when iYs not defined under State
law? Why should we take that upon ourselves to define it and to make provision for
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it when State law does not provide that definition? I think thaYs one concern that
I have. So it appears that we'll need to hofd it over again.
SRG Sorry. And I want to ask Lt. Thetford one more question. Do we have an update
on the two lawsuits, San Diego and San Bernardino?
ST No, and I don't expect that we're going to see anything for a while. Again, this is not
a political thing that somebody wants to grab and run with. I don't see...let me give
you another example. CVAG on Monday, on the agenda, is for somebody from the
US Attorney's Office to attend that meeting and speak, and that was a commitment
made by UnderSheriff Lingle. He had somebody lined up. That person fell through.
I'm aggressivefy trying to find a followup person. I've worked with the DEA on
several cases. We've talked about this issue. The US Attorney is happy to support
the DEA's effort when they're going after large medical marijuana dispensaries,
they're going after asset forfeiture. But they're not really interested in getting into
State or City politics. So I have a feeling that I'm going to be calling, and I hope I'm
wrong, but I have a feeling I may be calling CVAG to say you're probably going to
have to bump that speaker because I can't find somebody. The US Attorney's
position is they're dealing with Federal law. IYs a violation of the law, no ifs, ands,
or buts. What they're doing is illegal according to the Federal Constitution and
Federal as they see it now. But San Diego and San Bernardino...nothing as of yet,
and I expect it will probably be several months if not several years before we see
anybody even pick up the case, if they even do that. It was recommended by the
Attorney General, I believe, for them to actually take a look at it.
RL Very good, so we'll continue that.
SRG It will be on your next Agenda, and someone from the City Attorney's office will be
here.
Discussion of this issue continued under "Report on City Council Action(s)" as follows:
JF We had talked about marijuana a little bit yesterday, and I think Lt. Thetford did a
commendable job of recognizing that there are legitimate uses for medical
marijuana, and then there are recreational uses for marijuana, and the difficulty has
been how to parse between the two. And, you know, we did strike an accord with
the advocates over Christmas on the card issue. They don't like getting cards, but
thaYs probably because it does do the parsing that we hoped it would do. And, you
know, the way the law is written, there is no provision for dispensary anywhere, so
they've taken collectives and cooperatives, and they've tried to bootstrap that into
a dispensary, which I disagree with personally. On the other hand, you have to
have a medical doctor write a recommendation for you to get this. The only reason
iYs a recommendation is because if it's a prescription, then iYs under the FDA, and
that's banned under the FDA. But, at the same time, I've seen doctors write
prescriptions for Percocet and all kinds of drugs far worse than marijuana. And I
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think the card system was probably the best compromise that we reached, and that
is if you have a letter from a doctor recommending this, and you go to the County,
and you get the card, and they verify the letter, and you need this for medicinal
purposes, great. Have your card, law enforcement will leave you alone. I think
that's the compact that was struck.
ST Absolutely.
JF If you've got some bogus, xeroxed letter that you got from some attorney in
Oakland, and no offense, but you and I both know...
MN I don't hang out in Oakland.
JF ...that that's not going to fly. And I personally talked to Supervisor Wilson,
Supervisor Stone...l know that they're looking at this very heart of the County. I was
at the Board of Supervisors meeting a week ago last Tuesday, and they did send
it back to the Planning Commission. I think they're wrestling with it the way that
we're wrestling with it, and I guess my personal druthers would be to wait for the
Board of Supervisors action from Riverside County and then take a look at it,
whether we think it's too lenient, too restrictive, you know...and fine tune it from
there.
RL Or whether they made enough accommodation (unclear)
JF Well, if iYs going to be a County-wide ordinance, you know, it's going to comptetely
surround us, and we may as well sort of dovetail our efforts. I am adamant about
sticking with the card requirement. The owner of Canna Help has about 500 cards
issued now. I did meet with Supervisor Wilson,who has somebody from the County
coming down every Thursday and issuing cards here iocally, so it's not a question
of them having to drive to Riverside. Okay, it may be 150 bucks, but how much do
you and I pay for heart medication? I mean, iYs outrageous. As to the price of
marijuana, l guess that's up to the market, although you go into the dispensary here
and you see some of the prices, and you wonder how these people can possibly
afford it to begin with. And I haven't talked to Lanny in a while, but I know that he's
got some widely varying views, and his view of a cooperative is that somebody can
rent a 20,000 square foot warehouse and grow 200 plants, and thaYs just as
legitimate as if somebody is an individual user. And I've dealt with the DEA, and 1
know that they do not want to work on an individualized basis, so if iYs a personal
use situation, they're really not going to get involved. But the fellow that they
arrested up in Sky Valley was it?
ST Yes
JF A couple months ago...had hundreds of plants. And so they're more into the drug
dealers, if you will. I don't know where the City's going to come down on this issue.
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I'm personally against dispensaries, but as you may have read in the paper
yesterday, my father-in-law is taking Marinol so he can get an appetite to eat. So
I recognize there is legitimate use for it, and our struggle is to parse out the
legitimate users that need it under a doctor's recommendation versus the
recreational users that just want to go get stoned every day. And if you go over to
our dispensary, you'll see that 90%of the people are there just getting stoned every
day. And I, you know...we've got a moratorium on the books right now, and I don't
know how iYs going to resolve itself, but my druthers would be to not throw out the
baby with the bath water, and how we do that I don't know, but I'm going to be
looking to you guys for advice and input on that. And so, please be open-minded
and give us some very thoughtful recommendations on how to do that.
MN Well, what we talked about was that the City Attorney would come and help us
answer some questions and, more particularly, provide a couple of alternatives.
One may be very restrictive or an outright ban, and one subject to some conditions.
You know, obviously if the County is going to act sooner rather than later, it would
sure be nice to have that in front of us before we make a recommendation to the
Council and of course the Council before it makes a decision because we could
compare and see if iYs, you know, a good model to follow. What's the...any idea
what the timing is at the County level? Did you say the Planning Commission is
having hearings on it now?
ST They had a hearing on the east end of the County at the Board of Supervisors
office, and now they've done one down here, so my guess is they'll now take
whatever they get testimony-wise, go back into discussion to see if they're going to
amend their ordinance at all, if any, and then take it before the Board of
Supervisors, so I'm not sure how long that's going to take.
JL Are we talking next year?
ST No, my guess is it will probably be in the next month or two that they'll probably be
bringing it before the Board of Supervisors. They seem to be very intent on
addressing the issue, you know, in somewhat of a timely manner now. And, again,
they've called and asked us what we're doing. They called and asked for our
advice. I mean, I'm in touch with....we have a chief who works administration. He's
also an attorney (unclear) representative of the Sheriff, who is up on the issue. In
fact, {'ll be writing him an email tonight to tell him what happened at this meeting so
he is aware of what occurred. They were the ones that met in Riverside after talking
to me and finding out what our issue is so we're all on the same sheet of music. I
have a feeling that...they're not dragging their feet like they were before because
now it's impacting them, and they did take into effect that we've been dealing with
it for a while. So their ordinance actually started with our first draft, and it gained
more teeth as we had further discussion. So I'm hoping that in the next month or
two we will have something back from the Board of Supervisors, and a decision will
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be made, and whatever it is, it is, and then we can move forward in whatever
direction we're going to go.
MN So do we...Mr. Chairman, do we want the City Attorney representative here next
meeting, or do we want to have him in November(unclear)There may be an action
by the County by then. Mayor Ferguson said his understanding is there may be
action by the Board of Supervisors within four to six weeks.
RL Right, but I believe we have an upcoming situation that also needs to be addressed
or discussed, and that would be the resolution of whether or not to extend an
existing business license.
PS I think
(Unclear)
PS December 15t is when that moratorium expires.
MN That's the moratorium, but didn't we talk about last time the September 30th
expiration...something in the Minutes we talked about September 30`h expiration of...
RL Of their business iicense.
MN ...of their license or of their...
JL (unclear) we extended that.
MN That's the moratorium. IYs different than the approval of the business license.
JF Our business license is not regulatory in nature...
RL Right
JF ...it's simply taxing in nature. So whether we choose to collect money from them ar
not really doesn't have an effect on whether he stays in business or not.
MN So the moratorium is really the more pertinent...
JF Yes.
MN Alright
(Unclear)
SRG It can be extended, the moratorium. The Council could...
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JF Up to two years.
SRG ...for an extension up to two years.
MN So that doesn't put a time pressure on us to get a recommendation for the Council
from our October meeting. We could just as soon hear from the City Attorney in
November, and maybe in the interim hear from the County if the County takes
action.
SRG That's fine.
MN Is that what the Council is looking for, from your point of view, looking for from us?
JF From my personal point of view, I'm not suggesting that you follow the County, but
I'd like for you to get the benefit of their wisdom, whatever it is.
MN What I'm asking is...is the Council looking to this Commission to come up with a
proposal out of our October meeting so you'll have something from us...
JF No, not necessarily.
MN Okay.
GK I was just thinking that it would be better to go ahead and get the information from
the City Attorney and see what he's proposing, and let us have an opportunity to
review that and come back at our November meeting, and then by then perhaps we
will have information with regard to the County Supervisors.
JF Actually,we retained special counsel through Richards,Watson 8�Gershon on what
the City legally had to do and not do under Prop 215. Might it not be better to get
somebody from them here?
SRG Sure.
JF Was it Fred Snow or...l can't remember who it was.
SRG David Snow, I think.
ST I don't know if this is the proper venue, but Commissioner Nethery brought up an
interesting point that kind of gave me a concern. If the concern is that the business
license isn't a regulatory issue and is just a taxing issue, I would bring up the
proposal that, you know, rather than...if the idea and the intent is to let them just not
extend but to stay in limbo, we won't take any of the funds taxing, and let it carry,
I think it's a good idea. My concern is, and your point is, that I would like to, if
there's any way of recommending, that we make sure that we give explicit
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instructions to staff to make sure that if that license comes in to be renewed, that
they are not to renew it.
JF Well, that's how we got into this whole mess.
ST That's my point.
JF A business license was issued based on a perception of what the Council wanted
to do, without Council approval, and then that was used as sort of an imprimatur of
legitimacy, which we never expected.
ST Right, and my concern is, and I may be off base, I want to make sure that the City
doesn't get latched into some further commitment if it happens to get updated for
another year versus let's say six months down the road you decide that you want
to ban it, and they have no license, and that's one less sticky thing. So I just posed
that idea that might be a good recommendation.
JF It's actually...Cathedral City's approach was we don't issue business licenses to
dispensaries because we don't recognize them, and if you want to operate under
State law, good luck, but we're not going to give you a license.
HP Technically, you can, if they're not meeting the standards, revoke their license.
There is a provision in the ordinance to do that, and technically you can't operate
if you don't have the license, even though it is a tax.
JF Yeah, we went through that in January.
MN You said the same thing, Jim...l'm just looking at the minutes, and we were talking
about this issue, and Lt. Thetford said that there was an agreement that this
operator had signed that said he would only sell product to dispensary people who
obtain a valid current medical card issued by the Riverside Department of Health
Services, in April. And we were talking about revoking the license, and if he violated
that, then you'd have a basis to revoke the license was the discussion. It's going
to expire September 30th, somehow we got that, and one option would be to have
the City Attorney tell us whether it would be valid not to renew it without risk. And
at that point,you said,Councilman Ferguson,you said the initial analysis came from
our City Manager, not necessarily the City Attorney, was that our business license
was not regulatory in nature, strictly a taxing license. And you said the same thing.
Maybe you can't shut down the business, you don't get tax from it.
JF Right
MN So that was one of things that we were going to have the City Attorney look at,
whether(unclear)You said iYs odd to me that I don't know it's unregulatory it gives
them the right, etc. under our ordinance, and we were talking...that was the context,
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part of the context (unclear) talking about the City Attorney, so maybe having
somebody in October come and talk to us about that or at least try to address the
issue because if the license expires, and renewing it doesn't mean anything, or not
renewing it doesn't mean anything in terms of control, it's just a pure taxing issue,
then that September 30'h deadline....iYs nothing, but it would be nice to know.
JF It sure would.
SRG You might have an opportunity to ask before we do...Council could ask that
question.
JF (unclear) do it tomorrow.
SRG Because we're closing in on September 30'h. I'm not in the loop, and I don't want
to sound apologetic, but it is the Police Department, Planning Department, and City
Manager's Office, so I'm a little uneducated as to whaYs going on with the marijuana
ordinance. And I apologize about the City Attorney. We did prepare a transcript so
that all of your comments were available for him to review as well as your draft that
you had prepared. Maybe we should have called and reminded, but we'll make
sure he is here at the next meeting.
(Unclear)
JF I would say, by and large, given that I wouldn't want to be here if I had a perfect
world and could have planned it differently. But since we are here, we've got an
operator who is a believer. You know, whatever your feelings are about marijuana,
he's got two-thirds of his intestine missing from a water skiing accident, and he does
use it enhance his appetite and, you know, takes his...has agreed to the card
system, and whether we have dispensaries or not is an open issue that will be
decided at some point later. But right now, he's not posing a major health and
safety problem...
RL Right.
JF ...and I say let's wait for the County and...everybody's, you know, doing this on this
issue, looking for somebody to take the lead. And right now the County, through
Supervisor Stone and Supervisor Wilson, who's opinion I respect highly, have said
we're going to try and do something meaningful. And I just want to give us an
opportunity to take a look at what that is.
MN Yeah.
GK Mayor Ferguson, is there any kind of notation on the business license for him to not
renew at this point? I mean, have we put anything in the file that states that we...
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JF Our City Manager's position is that we can simply not renew his business license
and just let him operate without paying the tax, that there's no legal requirement for
you to pay a tax. Since marijuana dispensaries are not in our Code, they're not
required to have a business license.
GK Have we made sure that we do not issue a renewal?
JF Correct.
RL So it's just a nonconforming use (unclear)
JF IYs an unaddressed use.
RL Oh, okay, unaddressed use.
MN IYs not even a zoning issue (unclear)
RL Okay. I'm ready to move forward and get off this subject.
SRG We'll have all of this back with a report from both attorneys next month.
JL ThaYs for October?
SRG Yes.
RL Thank you.
JB Pat, maybe they'd like to participate in the pilot program and have video
surveillance...
PS There you have it. He'll be a new business if his license expires.
JF One of the conditions of his April 5'h agreement was to have video surveillance on
his premises.
ST They already have it in place.
PS But is it any good?
ST Actually, iYs very good. They actually monitor it. There concern is not us coming
after them. There concern is (unclear), and they want to see them hitting the door.
MN So they have external as well as internal surveillance?
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ST They have internal and external surveillance, I guess, but they have internal and
external surveillance for their own protection. You know, they are trying to do it
right. There may be an ulterior motive for surveillance, but they have it for their
protection. I'm concerned about their safety because of the amount of money they
take in and the property they have inside. I'm concerned about them being ripped.
I'm concerned about the fact that they have weapons inside there to protect
themselves.
(Unclear)
RL Okay, moving forward, under Reports and Remarks.....
IX. REPORT ON CITY COUNCIL ACTION (S)
Mayor Ferguson stated that the issue of crime in Palm Desert did come up
the previous day at a breakfast meeting, and he commended the Sheriff's
Department. He said Channel 2 raised this issue about a month ago
regarding burglaries and jewelry store robberies and seemed to imply that
the influx of people into Palm Desert was raising crime. He said he had gone
over statistics for the last 11 years and found that Palm Desert's crime was
flat, while growth had increased substantially. He said one could argue quite
credibly that crime in Palm Desert has actually decreased.
X. REPORTS AND REMARKS
A. Comments by Public Safety Commissioners
None
B. Update on the Citizens on Patrol Program
Mrs. Gilligan noted that staff had run into a snag administratively with
the Citizens on Patrol (COPs)and had put the program in a suspense
mode until such time as staff has a chance to meet with them and
define their role in the community. She noted there had been several
resignations; however, she said the City believed in the program,
would continue to support it, and would get it up and running in the
fall. She added that the snag was the fact that several COPs had
followed a private vehicle into a parking lot because they claimed the
driver had run a stop sign. It was difficult for staff to sit down and
discuss this situation with the two COPs individuals because they
were not available. Staff decided to go back through and review the
program and saw many areas that needed attention.
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Lt.Thetford added that according to the COPs bylaws, members were
supposed to be non-confrontational for their own safety, and that was
law enforcement's concern. He said that while members would not
be going out on patrol and having contact with the public until staff
can meet with the Captain and come up with a stronger
understanding of the role of COPs members, there were still
operational/organizational things they can do in the meantime.
C. Comments by Staff
Lt. Thetford thanked Mayor Ferguson for his talk the previous day at
the Mayor's Breakfast. He felt his speech was well-done, and it was
appreciated by law enforcement. He atso noted that was the Acting
Commander of the Palm Desert Station, as Captain Kilday was going
to Riverside.
Ms. Scully noted that the California Legislature had adjourned for this
session and would reconvene the first week of December. She added
that one-third of the Assembly would be new members next year.
XI. ADJOURNMENT
Commissioner Butzbach moved to adjourn the meeting at 5:05 p.m. Motion was
seconded by Vice Chairman Kirkwood and carried by a 5-0 vote, with the next meeting
scheduled for 3:30 p.m. on Wednesday, October 11, 2006.
Q
Mary P. G te , Recording Secretary
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