HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - Public Safety Commission 09-12-2007 .
CITY OF PALM DESERT
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION
APPROVED MINUTES
Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 3:30 p.m.
Administrative Conference Room
I. CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 3:30 p.m. by Vice � i I ' ,�
Kirkwood. �
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II. ROLL CALL �
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Present: Absent: �
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Vice Chair Gloria Kirkwood Chairman James b �
Commissioner James Larsh Q �,
Commissioner Rick Lebel w a �'
Commissioner Martin Nethery W � �
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Also Present: z � -3
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Councilmember Cindy Finerty U °'
Sheila R. Gilligan, ACM/Community Services Division � w
Lauri Aylaian, Planning Director a . w �
Hart Ponder, Code Compliance Manager � �, Q � �
David J. Erwin, City Attorney � Q A o �+
Pat Scully, Senior Management Analyst c�.> � � H .. .. 2 � w �
S t e p h e n A ry a n, A s s i s t a n t t o t h e C i t y M a n a g e r a, a � H v� cn w h ►-+ t r
Lt. Frank Taylor, Palm Desert Police Department H a o cn c��
Division Chief Dennis Dawson, Riverside County Fire D��e ������E
Battalion Chief John Rios, Riverside County Fire Department
Pedro Rodriguez, Senior Code Compliance Officer
Mary P. Gates, Recording Secretary
APPROVED MINUTES
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
III. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
Lt. Taylor introduced Officers Chris Brown, Rod LaBrecque, and Robert
Ramirez, noting that all three had been assigned new roles within the
Palm Desert Police Department (see copy of BrightSide article attached
as Exhibit "A").
IV. CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Minutes of the Public Safety Commission Meeting of June 13, 2007
Rec: Approve as presented.
B. Informational Items:
1. Press Release from U.S. Commerce Secretary Carlos M.
Gutierrez and U.S. Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary
Michael Chertoff Relative to First Responder
Communications Grants
2. Letter from Congresswoman Mary Bono Relative to Public
Safety Interoperable Communications (PSIC) Grant Program
3. Article from The Press Enterprise Entitled, "San Bernardino
Brainstorming to Rub Out Graffiti for Good"
4. Memorandum from Lt. Frank Taylor — Update on Letter
Submitted by Palm Desert Country Club Relative to Crime
Issues
Commissioner Lebel moved to approve the Consent Calendar as presented.
Motion was seconded by Commissioner Larsh and caRied by a 4-0 vote, with Chairman
Butzbach ABSENT.
Councilmember Finerty asked for a status report on the grant money
outlined in Informational Items 1 and 2. Mrs. Gilligan responded that
these items had been provided to the Commissioners for their information
and that the Police and Fire Departments and County of Riverside were
responsible for applying for said grants.
V. CONSENT ITEMS HELD OVER
None
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PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
VI. NEW BUSINESS
A. Palm Desert Fire Services Monthly Report for May, June, and July
2007
Commissione� Lebel moved to, by Minute Motion, receive and file the Palm
Desert Fire Services Monthly Report for May, June, and July 2007. Motion was
seconded by Commissioner Nethery and carried by a 4-0 vote, with Chairman Butzbach
ABSENT.
B. Palm Desert Special Enforcement Teams Monthly Statistics for
June, July, and August 2007
Commissioner Larsh moved to, by Minute Motion, receive and file the Palm
Desert Special Enforcement Teams Monthly Statistics for June, July, and August 2007.
Motion was seconded by Commissioner Nethery and carried by a 4-0 vote, with
Chairman Butzbach ABSENT.
C. Palm Desert Station — Traffic Collision Statistics for May and June
2007
Commissioner Nethery moved to, by Minute Motion, receive and file the Palm
Desert Station — Traffic Collision Statistics for May and June 2007. Motion was
seconded by Commissioner Larsh and carried by a 4-0 vote, with Chairman Butzbach
ABSENT.
D. Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Statistics for June and July 2007
Commissioner Nethery moved to, by Minute Motion, receive and file the
Commercial Vehicfe Enforcement Statistics for June and July 2007. Motion was
seconded by Commissioner Larsh and carried by a 4-0 vote, with Chairman Butzbach
ABSENT.
E. Traffic Team Report for August 2007 -- Includes Traffic Collision
Statistics for July 2007 and Commercial Vehicle Enforcement
Statistics for August 2007 (New Report Format)
Lt. Taylor noted that from this point forward, the Commission will
receive this new format to include for Traffic Collision Statistics and
Commerciat Vehicle Enforcement Statistics.
Commissioner Larsh moved to, by Minute Motion, receive and file the Traffic
Team Report for August 2007. Motion was seconded by Commissioner Nethery and
carried by a 4-0 vote, with Chairman Butzbach ABSENT.
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PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
F. Business District Team Report— August 2007
Commissioner Larsh moved to, by Minute Motion, receive and file the Business
District Team Report for August 2007. Motion was seconded by Commissioner Nethery
and carried by a 4-0 vote, with Chairman Butzbach ABSENT.
G. Consideration of Palm Desert Municipal Code Chapters 9.24 (Noise
Control) and 9.25 (Multiple Responses to Loud Parties and
Gatherings)
The following is a verbatim transcript of this portion of the Minutes:
�
DJE David J. Erwin, City Attorney
MN Commissioner Martin Nethery
SRG Sheila R. Gilligan, ACM/Community Services Division
GK Vice Chair Gloria Kirkwood
JL Commissioner James Larsh
DJE I would apologize to the Commission. That report, the draft of it, did not get
done...the ordinance. So the Commission knows what we're doing, currently our
ordinance provides, as it relates to noise, utilization of sound measurement
machines and equipment. We're finding that that may not be the best way to
accomplish that regulation. Many of the cities in California are going to another
type of ordinance, which is basically that that disturbs a reasonable person...that
is prolonged...more the nuisance type area as opposed to a technical
measurement. The technical measurement many times gets challenged whether
the operator of the equipment is trained, whether they've had the proper training
with the equipment, if the equipment is properly calibrated, and what the other
surrounding noise may be in the area. What the staff has done is put together
another ordinance, and we had some discussion ongoing at the staff level, and
it's kind of been passed to me to potentially put two parts together, if you will.
We have in our existing ordinances some regulations that deal with sound
measurement as it relates to pool equipment, it already exists in other parts of
our ordinance. In other words, the pool equipment has to be below a certain
decibel level, within a certain number of feet. And the same type of
measurement is required with regard to leaf and dust blowers. It refers to a
decibel level as well. As opposed to changing those, what I'm doing is putting
together a draft which has the utilization of the sound equipment, leaving it for
utilization with the swimming pool equipment and the leaf blowers, and also
adding to that potentially, depending on what this Commission and the Council
might say, its utilization for stationary sound sources such as a well site,
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PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
something of that nature as opposed to using the other type of noise ordinance.
But putting the two together has become a task. I hope to have that done this
next week and get that ordinance to you so that you can review the draft.
RL Dave, would that...would your work in that area also apply to places such as
those that have been a problem in the City of Palm Springs and other cities
relating to night clubs and entertainment with respect to sound and decibel levels
within a certain area?
DJE It would apply.
RL Or even out on EI Paseo?
DJE The entertainment type venues would be regulated by the other one, not the
sound measuring devices.
RL But there would be a sound element in that one also?
DJE There is a sound element in it.
RL Very good.
MN Has this new approach, which is...
DJE Apparently, it's not new, Marty, in a lot of cities in California.
MN Well, has it been tested for vagueness and constitutionality?
DJE Yes, it has.
MN It's passed muster?
DJE Yes.
MN Then, it sounds great because...
DJE And hopefully it will be one that will have less ability to be challenged.
MN Yes.
RL I noticed on this item on the Agenda, it also indicates multiple responses to loud
parties and gatherings.
DJE That ordinance basically sets some penalties, some notification on the first
response, and then some relatively elevated penalties for second responses. I
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think you will be happy...it really is addressed to loud parties that continue even
after warnings.
MN Has the Police Department had some input into that, since obviously they are the
ones that are going to be enforcing it.
DJE Yes, they have.
SRG We received direction from the City Council this spring. The City is growing, the
business community is (inaudible) as we g�ow, and these were areas that
Council felt we needed to address. We've had the City Attorney's office, the
Police Department, our Code Enforcement (Hart Ponder and Pedro) who are out
there doing the work all the time and had great input into it. And Lauri Aylaian,
our Planning Director, assumed this responsibility and has done a yeoman's job
moving it forwa�d. We told the Council we would have it back to them in the fall
with comments from Public Safety, and these two ordinances are before you as a
result of that.
RL If I might add to the research and materials...l'm sure you have a (inaudible),
David, I have a chapter from another municipal code related to cost recovery for
police services at large parties on private properties...
DJE I'd like to see that.
RL ...where they have multiple activities.
DJE Okay. I have a couple of them like that, but any more are welcome.
DK Is there any action that you're requiring?
SRG I would suggest that you have a motion to continue this to your next meeting.
DJE Continue it to the next meeting if you would please.
GK Okay, do we have a motion?
MN So moved.
RL Second.
JL Second.
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GK All in favor...aye
JL Aye
RL Aye
MN Aye
H. Consideration of Palm Desert Municipal Code Chapter 5.100
Relative to Entertainment Permits
The following is a verbatim transcript of this portion of the Minutes:
�
JL Commissioner James Larsh
SRG Sheila R. Gilligan, ACM/Community Services Division
GK Vice Chair Gloria Kirkwood
DJE David J. Erwin, City Attorney
RL Commissioner Rick Lebel
MN Commissioner Martin Nethery
FT Lt. Frank Taylor, Palm Desert Police Department
LA Lauri Aylaian, Planning Director
CF Councilmember Findy Finerty
JL We are going to get the entertainment ordinance, correct?
GK Correct
SRG You have that in front of you, I believe.
GK H is Consideration of Palm Desert Municipal Code Chapgter 5.100 Relative to
Entertainment Permits...ltem I in your packets. City Attorney...Mr. Erwin.
DJE This is also something that went through much the same process as the Noise
Ordinance. I got this one finished a little quicker than the other. We initially
started off with the idea of regulating nightclubs and then basically felt that we
really ought to be regulating entertainment because the definition of nightclub
usually is relatively limited, and we do have a lot of other sources of
entertainment which do create noise, do create traffic, other than nightclubs. And
that's what this ordinance is designed to attempt to regulate, at least to manage,
if you will, by requiring...and staff didn't do this, but I changed it a little bit. An
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entertainment permit is required. It is not a Conditional Use Permit. This is
basically a staff function. It can be appealed to the Planning Commission and
the Council, but it starts off as a staff function with an entertainment permit. That
is for any business, nightclub or otherwise, where entertainment is going to be
furnished on an ongoing basis for five or more days in a six-month period. That's
not very many.
RL I like that concept.
DJE And for less than five days...actually we didn't, initially, at staff level, provide any
sort of permit. I've added in a temporary permit for those because I can see
businesses that don't ordinarily entertain, and I hate to use an example, but a
tattoo parlor. They were going to have the motorcycle group in a parking lot at
Presidents Plaza with a dj and stuff like that. So I've added a temporary
entertainment permit.
RL IYs a one-time event...intended as a one-time event?
DJE Yes. And they would have been excepted under this. And I thought maybe we
should not have that. But the basic ordinance goes into some detail about what
has to be provided, and it does go through staff and the Police Department in the
permitting process. There are a number of other regulatory items in here. There
are requirements for, depending upon the issuance of the permit, security
guards.
RL Or Police officers.
DJE Or Police officers, yes. And that is the staff's determination. It can be appeaied,
but they don't get a permit until it's issued, so if they want to appeal it, iYs not
issued.
RL I have a couple of questions regarding that.
DJE Sure
RL One of them comes under Section 5.100.070, review and investigation when an
applicant is applying for the permit. It indicates within ten days after receipt of an
application, the Director of Development Services, etc. or so on and so. And I
wondered...is that enough time for a background investigation of an applicant?
DJE No, that's...this is just for the determination. The staff, once an application is
received, has ten days to decide whether they want more information or not.
RL Okay
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DJE And iYs not until that ten days has run and the information requested has been
provided that the time for issuing it, which is 30 days, starts to run.
RL Okay
DJE So iYs...an application must be complete before any time limit starts running.
RL So that would provide the opportunity, if it was deemed necessary, to do a
background investigation.
DJE Yes
RL On the next page, with respect to noise under Item 6, that caught my eye again
as it relates to issues we've had in Palm Desert with a couple of businesses and
issues they've had in Palm Springs many, many times. And I wondered whether
or not sufficient sound could be more adequately defined to include a certain
decibel level within a certain...
DJE We're trying to get away from the decibel level...
RL Are you?
DJE ...on the entertainment. It just...in my research of cities, it has been subject to
more challenge than the other type of regulation. And I think you will see that.
You will see the difference in it with the other ordinance when it comes in
because these kind of work together. These ordinances will work together.
RL Okay. Some of the things that come to mind are the Greek Festival that we had
in Palm Desert, that we have every year in Palm Desert., the entertainment at a
couple of our businesses on EI Paseo that have occurred. There have been
complaints from neighboring properties...you know, things of that nature that I
thought might be caught in this area, unless you're catching it in the other one.
DJE We're catching it in both, hopefully.
RL Very good
MN Dave?
DJE Yes
MN Just looking at that same thing, it says the noise inside the establishment shall
not be audible anywhere on adjacent property or pub(ic rights-of-way. Well, two
things....one, it says "inside" the buildings. Some places have outside
entertainment. I'm thinking of a restaurant on EI Paseo that has outside
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entertainment and music. I live above that, and music carries at certain times of
the year but, you know, if iYs off at a certain time and it's not too loud...this would
kind of preclude that, at least by implication...outside music. And I don't
know...do we want to do that is a question. I don't know, but iYs something we
need to think about. And the other one is "shall not be audible anywhere on
adjacent property or public rights-of-way." It wouldn't offend me if, you know, two
feet onto the....in a business district, two feet onto the next property or six feet
onto the next property you can hear. I mean...audible at all...l mean, if iYs like a
whisper...it seems like a very strict standard...not audible anywhere on adjacent
property or the public right-of-way.
DJE It is strict.
MN Yeah.
DJE Okay, maybe too strict
MN It would seem iYs almost...certainly you're not going to have anybody with
outside music or with the door open when the weather is nice and the music
inside or very rarely. And I just wonder if...at least, I think that's something we
need to think about and talk about.
DJE Okay
RL On the next page, under Public Nuisance, I didn't know whether that was
adequately defined. It seems that it isn't really defined. Is it defined somewhere
else in the code?
DJE Yes, it is. Public nuisances are defined in the code.
RL Under Operating Requirements, under Hours under Operating Requirements,
was there a specific reason or rationale why the hours were selected to be open
between two a.m. and seven a.m.?
DJE I don't think there's any particular rationale.
RL In other words, the nightclub should (inaudible)
DJE (inaudible) alcohol, they have to close it.
JL The ABC dictates you close at 2.
RL No, the ABC dictates you stop serving alcohol at 2, but they could be open until 6
or 7 in the morning.
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MN So you're suggesting it ought to say that they can be open, but they shouldn't
have music (inaudible) What are you suggesting?
DJE Well, this basically says they would close.
RL But they're permitted to open at 7 in the moming?
DJE Yes
RL Why not 2 in the afternoon?
DJE Or 10 in the morning? I don't know.
RL Right, okay.
SRG On the hours, we went to several different cities...
DJE And I think this is generally the hours...
SRG ...this is the general time.
RL Is it? Alright.
MN Of course, the other thing that I think about when I read this is...there are
entertainment establishments in this valley which are not subject to State law,
and so what we do is we tell an entertainment establishment that it can't stay
open...l think it needs to be regulated...but it can't stay open after two o'clock.
That's just going to push business to those establishments which are not
...cannot be regulated by State, County, or City government, which, you know, I
guess it only makes the monopoly better, but I'm not sure that's something we
want to do, either. I would think there would be establishments that might stay
open all night as long as the sound or the...obviously, you can't serve liquor after
2...the sound level is down. I don't know.
SRG I think too in addressing this from a Police standpoint, using one facility that's
entertainment oriented, if something happens there, it's usually at that time of
day between 1 and 2, and they have been significant enough that they've taken
our whole Police Department over there at one entity. And then what happens to
the rest of the City. So in trying to work out (inaudible) regulations, we did come
up with the hours, and I'll defer to Lt. Taylor, but I think we took the Police
DepartmenYs input and tried to accommodate that the best to protect the City as
a whole.
MN Now this is a sound regulation, right?
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DJE No, this is an entertainment ordinance.
MN I'm sorry, entertainment...it's an entertainment regulation, and so what it really
says is if any business that is going to offer entertainment at any time during the
day can't be open between 2 and 7. I'm not sure that follows for me, but maybe
I'm...
DJE No, this says a nightclub.
SRG Right, a nightclub
MN Oh, well it says...
DJE Nightclub is separately defined.
MN Okay, this is only nightclubs.
SRG Right
DJE This is only nightclubs
MN Okay, I'm with you. I didn't read it that way. Okay, I see now.
RL In that same section, Dave, under Operating Requirements, the bottom of that
page and the top of the next page, indicates occupant capacity and number of
security guards, and you had indicated previously that the Director of
Development could determine whether security guards or police officers might be
required. I would suggest consideration of a Section 1 A, if that's Section 1,
consideration of a Section 1 A , that when Police officers are speci�ed to be on
the premises, that a Police services fee should be charged, and I have a
recommendation for that with respect to Police services fees indicating what the
fee should be, to include any costs for actual cost of inedical treatment required
by Police officers, to include repair or replacement of any property damaged, to
include the City reserving the right to seek fees in excess of a certain amount,
and also that those fees would be considered as a debt to the City, collectible by
suit if necessary. But I have those recommendations typed up for you.
DJE Okay, great. Thank you.
RL I'm not sure if that's an appropriate hourly rate. I took the hourly rate of $75 to
include rate of salary and beneflts. That might be a little low.
DJE I think iYs a little low.
RL It may be.
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DJE (inaudible)
RL We may need to adjust that.
FT What usually happens on this, and I think when we have these, the time we end
up charging for events, these end up being in the realm of special events.
RL Correct
FT We charge a flat fee, which is...right now it's running at $62.44 for each of
the...anybody who contracts with...and these are extra duty officers. They're not
pulling officers that are on patrol, but these are additional officers that are coming
in and are provided because of this event.
RL Correct
FT Part of what...in this ordinance, what it looks like is that we're able to spend
some time evaluating everything that is going on with this event and come up
with a recommendation for how many peopfe that they're going to need and
whether it's security guards or just Police officers or a combination of them both.
And the flat rate...it keeps us consistent with all of the events that we do on a
special basis. We're doing some events in the next two weeks up on Hovley
right now because of the construction that's going on there, and we have the high
holy days at Temple Sinai that are going on, and we're doing a bunch of traffic
control over there. And we have a flat rate that we charge for those special
events. And to stay consistent all the way, we would recommend continuing that
and not change it in any way from what we normally do.
RL What I've suggested in that particular Police services fee would give the
discretion for the Department of...is it Development Services?
DJE Right, that's the way it's written.
RL Right, for that department to charge up front, if a person is going to have an
event, a $750 amount as kind of a "we'll hold your check until we determine what
fees might be necessary" but the fees would be a certain hourly rate and would
provide for everything such as injuries or property damage or things of that
nature.
FT Well, normally what we do on these rates is (inaudible) I assume they would
have to provide those monies up front before this event to us to contract for those
other people to come in.
DJE Right, we're not going to bill them.
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RL I've given Dave a couple of copies (inaudible)
MN Sounds like, though...Rick, what you're talking about is when you're asked to
help with off-duty Police officers, and this sounds like something where maybe, I
haven't read it, but this sounds like something where you're called to a problem
area, and...
RL No
MN It's not?
RL No, this would be an up-front.
FT We've sat, and we've met a lot about this....iYs an up-front type thing. For
example, if one of the establishments that is a nightclub is...what they normally
do is they play music inside their club, whether they serve food or alcoholic
beverages or however they do that, but they just have normal music. And then
what we run into on an occasional basis is they'll have a special event that goes
on, and they'll bring in a disc jockey or an entertainer from out of town, they'll
bring a band in, they'll advertise it on every radio station, and then what ends up
happening is all of a sudden the�e is this huge group of people that show up at
these establishments, and it really taxes our services because as alcohol is
mixed with large numbers, the potential for violence increases. And so at certain
times in the past we've had the whole group of...the Palm Desert Police
Department is dealing with an issue at one establishment, and that really doesn't
help with the public safety for the City as a whole. And being a contract city, we
can pull some resources in from other places to help in those types of situations,
but what ends up really good about this is that up-front we can say based on our
experience and different things that have happened, we can say here is the
number of people that are needed, and then they pay up-front for those people
for this certain number of hours, and an additional group of officers would be
there and be able to deal with the event.
SRG Right now, though, we don't have any way of knowing, which this will require,
about these special events. We found out that we were getting a rapper who had
just been let out of the LA County Jail, everybody in LA was coming down...we
found out at the eleventh hour. We got the Fire Department over there for
occupancy levels, got the Police Department over there. This would make the
establishment come to us and get the permit...
RL Yes, exactly
SRG ...and then we can be proactive rather than reactive.
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RL Exactly, and thaYs why I introduced the concept of this other provision because it
says not only would you be liable for this, but you may be liable for these other
expenses as well. And I think the property owner should know up front.
SRG Because right now we're not recouping any of the costs.
RL Correct
LA I think...l certainly understand the concept. What I would suggest, though, rather
than inserting it in the Operating Requirements, the operating requirements are
generally for the entertainment on a day-to-day basis year-round. Dave had
provided for a temporary use entertainment permit. And I think, if I'm
understanding you correctly, that's what you're trying to target for the additional
cost.
RL Not necessarily, although certainly either that section of the ordinance or a
separate handout could be provided to the applicant for a temporary permit which
indicates these are potential costs you might face.
LA Part of our goal with the temporary permit is to be able to have something that
can be reviewed at a meaningful level by the Police and by the different
departments so that, in Public Works and Code Compliance, so that we can
determine for this particular event what is appropriate precautions and measures
that need to be taken so that we can look at that. And that is one instance where
we wanted to be able to say it's not acceptable for you to provide your own
security guard services, and we think Poiice officers need to be in attendance
there, and we would be able to assign, if thaYs what the Commission is looking
for, we would be able to recoup the costs for that...
RL Right
LA ...whereas the...
RL And thaYs a proactive approach. I'm glad to see...
LA ...that's exactly what we would iike to do. The section that we were just citing
here, though, is for...these are the operating requirements for their day-to-day
business, karaoke bars...on a year-round basis, which probably would not have
officers sent out for extra duty.
MN What I was hearing from Frank was the program where you have an ongoing
situation or even some individual, like the Greek Festival or the high holy
days....a flat fee is just easier to deal with, and it's worked fine. And maybe this
type of an option for an unusual event, a special event, somehow you've got to
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weave it into the ordinance so that it's available when you need it, but for every
entertainment facility you don't want to have to have this kind of situation. Right,
that's what you were...l guess both you guys were suggesting.
RL Exactly
MN That makes sense.
RL You bet. There is another section on the next page, Dave, with respect to an
item, Subsection (f) for Intoxicated Persons. That would be under Section
5.100.090, Operating Requirements....the third page over, which would be
subsection 3f, identified as Intoxicated Persons. "No person who is intoxicated or
under the influence of drug shall be allowed to enter or remain on the premises,
whether as a patron or entertainer."
MN The lead-in is the Director of Development Services shall consider the
request...waive the requirement if the following findings can be made...
RL No, right
MN Isn't that what that is, a lead-in for that? So this is the lead-in for...
RL Oh, okay, right, and then subsections under that, correct.
MN So thaYs saying, Dave, is that saying the applicant can request a waiver or
reduction of security, and it can be granted by the Director only if the Director can
make the following findings, that no intoxicated person will be allowed to enter.
DJE Has been allowed....it really should be (inaudible)
RL That's going to be tough.
MN Shall be allowed, it should be...
RL That's going to be tough. But with respect to...
DJE Not necessarily. Reading the significant incident report that I get from Lt. Taylor,
iYs fairly easy to see some of these things occurring. They have allowed people
that are intoxicated to be on the premises.
(inaudible)
MN So this is really a hindsight thing. A, for instance, says there have been no
instances of disorderly conduct, so what you're saying is it really should say no
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person who is intoxicated has been allowed....essentially, in the past, this guy
has a clean record, so he can ask to reduce the number of security guards...
DJE That's the idea.
MN I've got you.
DJE I need to look at the grammar. I forgot to change that.
MN That makes sense, then. If you've got a clean record and there haven't been any
incidents, maybe he can get a reduction and save some money if warranted.
DJE Correct
MN That makes sense.
RL In that respect, and with the consideration of potentially intoxicated persons in
and around the premises, I had another recommendation regarding public
consumption of alcoholic beverages and possession of any open alcoholic
beverage container. That might lead into...
DJE We may be preempted by State law.
JL Open container on the sidewalk...
?? That may be (inaudible)
DJE Regardless of whether it's State law or not, if thaYs occurred, then (inaudible)
JL Well, you're backed up either way.
MN We could certainly include language in there, Dave, a catch-all language, that
says there have been no prior violations of State...
DJE County or local city ordinances
MN Something like that, you know, relating to...
RL Again, I think preemptive (inaudible)
JL Right
RL Preemptive and proactive...if the person operating a person would have that
foreknowledge, that those considerations may...in providing a permit to that
person or revoking a permit.
17
APPROVED MINUTES
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
?? Correct
GK Any other comments?
JL I have a comment back (inaudible) back page where it says Night Club,
5.100.150 "Any existing night club or business establishment legally in effect on
the effective date of this Ordinance shall have ninety (90) days to comply with
this chapter." That means that some of these smaller places, especially along
the access road of Highway 111 that every Friday and Saturday night they have
their...and he knows what I'm talking about...their acid rock bands come in.
They're not really professional, but they make a lot of noise, and people are out
on the sidewalks and everything else. They will have to go back, even though
they've been doing it for almost two years, they'll have to go back and get that
license. Did you hear that, Frank, we can get rid of finro places.
DJE The question is whether you want to wait 90 days or not. If you remember, an
ordinance process...it has to be two readings at the Council level, and if the
Council accepts it, 30 days thereafter, so....even if you started now, you're
looking at 45 days for the process before iYs effective, and then another 90 days.
RL And then 90 days.
DJE And my question is...is 90 days too long?
RL (inaudible)
GK (inaudible)
MN A lot depends on whether staff can....(laughter)...let me finish my thought.
LA I think 90 days is good because there are a number of businesses out there, and
staff is going to have to be doing a lot of research on each of these and their
applications.
RL There will be a lot.
LA It can be intensive (inaudible) I think 90 is a good number.
RL I do have a question with respect to Section 5.100.110, which relates to
suspension, revocation of a permit and that entire process. Having faced
something of this nature with the medical marijuana business situation, would
this permit a business to continue under suspension or appeal? Because it looks
like a suspension or an appellant process could linger for months.
18
APPROVED MINUTES
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
DJE It could, and that is (inaudible)
RL And nothing addresses whether or not a business could continue even if they've
been suspended...if the permit has been suspended, and during the appellant
process...this would provide by lack of any other condition, would provide for the
business to continue to operate.
DJE I guess there really are two types of notices that we could be thinking about
under this process. One is a suspension because there is some gross violation
of some of this, so the suspension is effective immediately in 24 hours or
something like that, subject to the right to appeal, but the permit is suspended in
the meantime.
RL Right
DJE Or if there is something such as they need to repair the doors or some other type
of problem that needs to be done, perhaps a different time limit. I can't think of
any other good example at the moment.
RL Well, if fire exit doors with panic hardware have been made inoperable because
of damage to the door, you wouldn't permit them to chain them for 30 or 45 days.
DJE That is correct. The question is should they be given time to complete those
measures, and what this says is they have ten days in which to do that. And a
question is whether the permit should be suspended in that period of time.
MN I think you'd really have to have exigent circumstances in order to have an
immediate suspension without due process, without a hearing. I think you'd
really have to have...otherwise, it's probably not constitutional, and probably you
could run into court and get an injunction, enjoin the City, and who needs that
hassle when you're going to put somebody out of business. But I bet if you had
some kind of a showing of...l don't know if exigent or how you'd define it, but...
DJE We have to, I think, be very careful about how we do define that. I think we could
do that.
MN You know, a finding of danger to the health, welfare...something like that.
GK A safety issue of some kind.
MN Yes...immediate safety issue, hazard...but that would probably be something
that would be good to put in there, but it's going to take a pretty strong showing.
DJE Let me see what I can come up with.
19
APPROVED MINUTES
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
RL Excellent
GK Overall, I think it's very appropriate (inaudible)
DJE Let me see if I can't make some modifications to it and get it back to you and at
the same time get the other ordinance to you so that you've got it all together. I
think it will be clear.
MN Dave, would you talk to staff and maybe get some input from staff and the Police
Department. The thing about, you know, inside the establishment...do we really
want to curtail all outside music or does that take a special permit or is it
just...whether it's inside or outside, you've still got to get the permit and we don't
care about it...the implication is, you know, because of at least that one section
that either it doesn't address outside music or it is barred.
DJE You know, this really addresses things other than music, too...
MN Right
DJE ...some of which don't make noise. You know, you can think of different types of
plays or events that do not really create noise that would fall under
entertainment, so let me see what I can come up with, what we can come up
with...
SRG We have a commitment to bring this back in the fall to the City Council. If we
delay this to the Public Safety Commission's October meeting, we're looking at
November or December. November and December each have one Council
meeting. I would defer to Councilmember Finerty....we have two options. One is
to take the verbatim transcript and a revised ordinance to the City Council with
recommendation or comments that Public Safety has, or the second being to
continue this until your meeting in October, which is going to delay the process.
So I would defer to Councilmember Finerty...which do you think? Do you think
the Council is looking for this now?
MN We're not going to have the other one until next month anyway, are we? Well,
not that they can't be done separately, but we won't have the other one until next
month.
CF I think as Dave indicated, the two will work hand in hand.
DJE I think it would make more sense from the...when you look at them together.
They do work together.
CF So you think that is logic...it might be better to get the other one, review at the
Public Safety Commission's October meeting, and then have your final changes,
2Q
APPROVED MINUTES
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
or suggested changes, here, and then put them both to the Council at the same
time.
DJE Okay
CF But I'm one of five.
MN Well, November is still the fall. I'm willing to talk to Mayor Kelly about that if he
doesn't agree with me.
RL But if there are exigent circumstances and a true need to push this forward, I
don't have any objection whatsoever. I think we've had an opportunity to provide
some input either on this ordinance or on the proposed ordinance that Dave
hasn't finished yet. I think we've made some points.
SRG The Police Department will tell you they would like to have it sooner than later.
And if the Council takes action on it in December, it's not going to go into effect
untit January, the end of January, because you have the two readings, and it will
be the end of January in the middle of the season.
CF Well (inaudible) the dates...what is the date of the October Public Safety
Commission meeting?
SRG The 10cn
CF The 10t`'. So if it is conceivable, it could go to the Council's second meeting in
October.
SRG It would be the next day.
CF No, second meeting in October.
DJE The second meeting is going to be...
SRG Oh, the second meeting, I'm sorry.
CF Is that workable?
DJE Sure
CF Okay
DJE First reading then...second reading first meeting in November, it would be
effective the first week or two of December.
21
APPROVED MINUTES
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
MN And if they wanted more input, it would be the beginning of January to go into
effect shortly after the first of the year...or at the second meeting in December,
right?
FT I guess our concern on it is that because of the old establishments that are given
90 days to get to that point, now the season is about to begin, and (inaudible)
and if we end up that it goes in front of the Councif the end of October, then we're
looking at into January before the 90-day time frame comes up.
RL For existing (inaudible)
CF But the 90-day time frame is really as a result of staff and the work that Lauri
suggested needs to be done, so if staff is aware starting today that this is the
work that is coming at you, there is no reason why your department couldn't get
started now, and maybe we could cut the 90-day requirement.
LA I think the obstacle that we'(I run into is that in order for the various departments
to review any business, they're going to need a complete application package
from the business, and until we receive those, we don't really have anything to be
looking at as far as reviewing their operations and their staffing and their
business practices. One thing I might suggest that would help us get halfway
there sooner is that the requirement for the temporary entertainment permit
would be able to take effect immediately or 30 days after the ordinance.
MN Doesn't the Council, Dave, have the discretion to declare something an urgency?
DJE Yes, the Council could declare it an urgency ordinance.
MN And it goes into effect in, what, 30 days?
DJE Immediately
MN Immediately, so you could do that with the temporary, or you could even do that
with the entire ordinance if the...
DJE What we have done on occasion is take identical ordinances and have the
Council approve an ordinance as an urgent matter, it becomes effective that day,
and at the same meeting have first reading on an ordinance and let it go through
the normal process. What you have done is you have limited the ability to
challenge the urgency ordinance to 45 days.
CF I like that
MN And really, that's up to the Council to make that decision.
22
APPROVED MINUTES
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
DJE It takes a 4/5ths vote.
MN It just seems to me, I mean...these are significant changes in what we're doing,
and we haven't even seen this one yet, and we talked about it, but....l mean, if
the Council wants to hear serious input from us, I think we wouldn't be doing our
job correctly if we were to just say go straight to the Council with this one,
number one, and number two, this is pretty serious stuff...
DJE Yes, it is
MN ...and it's going to affect every business...if the Council believes it really is that
urgent, given what Lt. Taylor said, then the Council has the power to make
it...pass it as an urgency ordinance.
DJE You certainly can put it together in that manner.
LA Would you be able to make whatever findings need to be made in the
recommendation for urgency (inaudible)
DJE I think we could do that.
(inaudible)
JL Would that satisfy you to do it that way?
FT Yes, it helps. It's just the time frame of it is to have consistency the way that iYs
worded right now is what our concern was. There are events that are
happening...there were events last week, and they'll continue and they'll just
grow in nature. Like I said before, it really taxes our services. I mean, we can
take care of them, but I'm really concerned when these things occur about the
safety of the residents of the City of Palm Desert because these things happen at
one or two o'clock in the morning.
JL They don't happen at 10 at night.
RL Well, some of these things, as an example the Greek services fee, the Council
couid really adopt that by resolution.
DJE Yes...typically, that's what we do...the fees are (inaudible)...it's easier to change.
SRG But the other language would have to be in the ordinance, as Commissioner
Lebel suggested, about medical costs and liability, etc. Would that not have to
be in the ordinance versus the resolution?
DJE Yes
23
APPROVED MINUTES
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
MN IYs one thing...l mean we had some ongoing businesses that have
entertainment, and I understand...l mean, I'm gathering now that you're telling us
that some of those are a problem, but they're ongoing businesses, and we kind
of live with them and maybe we, whether we like them or not, we ought to take a
measured approach there. But the temporary ordinance, the one for the one-
time...
RL The temporary permit
MN ...the temporary permit for the less than five days, basically, it's a special event,
a tattoo parlor that is going to have a motorcycle parlor, five days a year they
don't have entertainment but now they're going to do it...l know that's not the only
concern, but that could certainly be an urgency situation.
DJE I think the whole ordinance can be.
MN I mean, and that could go right then. That temporary, especially if you were
going to...l mean, you could take that to the Council next month or the next
meeting, adopt it, and then we could look at it again.
DJE I would rather have the whole thing.
MN Makes sense to me, but I'm just (inaudible)
LA But it certainly won't take effect...it won't have that 90-days for waiting for
processing of applications.
MN Right, but then you could act on that and could cut out that part of it at least.
DJE That's not (inaudible)
SRG But staff's going to be...we wouldn't be able to go out and contact businesses
and start enforcing this or let them know about it (inaudibie)
DJE Well, I think we let them know about it (inaudible)
SRG Would they get a notice that the ordinance was going to be heard by the City
Council?
DJE Yes...l don't care whether they do that or not. There is no requirement that we
give notice to them that we're going to consider the ordinance. I think we need to
tell them if the ordinance passes that it is passed. If you want to notify them,
thaYs fine, it doesn't matter.
24
APPROVED MINUTES
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
SRG IYs better than having staff do it and then having it amended and then Council
gets it. But that's your call, Dave.
GK How long does that take usually when an ordinance comes down (inaudible)
DJE Well, there is no particular notice requirement. This has to show on an agenda...
GK Right
DJE ...a posted agenda...posted 72 hours in front of the meeting. An urgent
ordinance just has to show on the agenda. The Council can pass that at that
meeting. It is effective that day. Then at that same meeting they can pass the
same ordinance as a regular ordinance, and that would be effective
approximately 45 days later. What you've done is you've created a gap of 45
days that if somebody wants to challenge whether that ordinance is an urgent
one or not, thaYs all the time they have to do it. They can go in and try it at that
point, but to have them overturn a discretionary decision of the Council is very
difficult to do.
MN Especially in 45 days in this courthouse where you can't get a civil case to trial.
DJE That's correct.
LA One thing that we can do as Councilmember Finerty suggested as far as what
staff can do in advance to get ready is we can certainly prepare a mailing list and
information to identify all the businesses that will be impacted, and those can go
out the day after the ordinances passes notifying people that they've got 90 days
and need to get the applications, and by the way here are your forms to fill out,
we're waiting for you at City Hall.
MN How do you do that, through your Business License Division? Is that how you
identify them?
LA I imagine that would be how we would do that.
MN Or the Police Department or a combination of the two?
?? A combination of the two.
MN Here are the ones who need to be on the list.
DJE There are some that...
LA A special list
25
APPROVED MINUTES
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
(inaudible)
RL I have a question for Lt. Taylor. Would any of these establishments, to your
knowledge or recollection, have any occasion where they would permit crowd
surfing or stage diving?
FT You know, I haven't heard those things advertised. I think there are events that
generate themselves...
RL Because I know that that generally ends up creating a demand for law
enforcement and fire services for injuries sustained during those types of
activities.
FT I think whenever you get that many people in one place to where they can
support a person above their heads, then there's probably a need for some type
of additional security.
MN Probably the crowd surfing is the least of the worries.
RL I will submit this language to Dave for review, but there's a prohibition of crowd
surfing and stage diving...language that you might want to look at.
GK Any other comments? Shall we go ahead and entertain a motion to continue this
to the October meeting?
MN Both of those items, right?
GK Well, we already did one.
MN We've done G already. So moved.
GK We're going to continue it.
JL Second
GK All in favor...aye
JL Aye
RL Aye
MN Aye
GK Thank you very much.
26
APPROVED MINUTES
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
CF And then if we could have the noticing so that for sure it comes to us on October
24t`', the second meeting in October.
SRG Yes
CF That would be great. Thank you.
SRG Lt. Taylor will not let us forget.
VlI. CONTINUED BUSINESS
None
VIII. OLD BUSINESS
None
IX. REPORT ON CITY COUNCIL ACTION (S)
Councilmember Finerty noted that the Council would be meeting the
following day.
X. REPORTS AND REMARKS
1. Comments by Public Safety Commissioners
None
2. Update on the Citizens on Patrol (COPs) Program
Mrs. Gilligan noted that there was a whole new team that was out in
the community. They also had vehicles that were far better
identified than in the past.
Lt. Taylor added that Sgt. Robert Perdue was the Police
Department liaison to the Citizens on Patrol and meets with them
regularly. He added that current and potential membership was
now at approximately 15 individuals.
Mrs. Gilligan noted that one task assigned to COPs members was
to go through parking lots in the City to make sure the handicapped
parking spaces were well-marked. She said in many of the lots, the
striping had faded, signs were missing, etc., and the City had
received many complaints about this subject. Upon question by
Commissioner Nethery about duties of the members, she
27
APPROVED MINUTES
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
responded that everything was defined in the new guidelines for the
Program. She added that Lt. Taylor was working with Palm Desert
Country Club on its Neighborhood Watch program and had an
update which was provided to the Commission. She noted that in
these meetings, interested residents were encouraged to become
involved in the COPs program.
Lt. Taylor reviewed his memorandum (on file in the Community
Services Division).
3. Legislative Update
Ms. Scully distributed copies of the text of Senate Bill 964 relative
to communications with elected officials. She noted that the bill
was currently on the Governor's desk for his signature or veto,
although she felt the chances of a veto were very small.
She stated that she had been working extensively with the Federal
Government this year because the City was requesting funds
($12.5 million) for the Portola Interchange at I-10. The amount
requested was approximately 25% of the entire project budget, and
this project was on the priority list with both Riverside County
Transportation Commission (RCTC) and Coachella Valley
Association of Governments (CVAG).
Commissioner Nethery asked that the City Attorney brief the
Commission on SB964 when it becomes law.
4. Comments by Police and Fire Departments
Chief Dawson provided a brief update on the recent power outage
in Palm Desert (August 31, 2007) as well as the use of the early
warning system.
5. Comments by Staff
None
28
APPROVED MINUTES
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
XI. ADJOURNMENT
Commissioner Larsh moved to adjourn the meeting at 5:10 p.m. Motion was
seconded by Commissioner Nethery and carried by a 4-0 vote, with Chairman Butzbach
ABSENT.
�
o�,��- Q f -
Mary P. G , Recording Secretary
29
APPROVED MINUTES
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 12, 2007
Exhibit "A"
Fra�i��li��� Fac.es G�t Nc��v (Zul�,� ,
�th f'olice neEaartment
•r:, e- The Palm Desert Pdice Departrr�ent is proud to announce several cFwnges to its 80-officer
team dedicated to protecting and serving the needs of the Gty and its residents.
� Officer Ctxis Brown is now the Gg/s Community Pdicing O�icer. He has been �
employed try the departrnent for almost five years.His new duties inck�de overseeing aU
crime prevention prograrns and serving as liaison to City public safety prog2ms.He also
T� helps with enviro�menWl impact mports,as t}�ey relate to public safery,and is secondary / \
celebrates three decades of �����Y's Citizens On Patrd program.Officer&oNm also oversees the Gime Free
preserving our community's rich Mu10-Housing and Neighborhood Watch programs,as well as the opera0ons packages ta ��e�Chns Brown
heritage on 5aturday;Septenber 29,at the Gty's rtwjor puWic events.He assists with Palm Desert Pdice Public Reiabons and with
5 p.m.with a research for Palm Desert Police sWff projects. Officer Brown can be conWcted at
at Uie Sodetys •Or9•
museum, 72-861 EI Paseo. Enjoy ��Rod LaBrecque has been with the departrr►ent for almost seven years,woridng
�� �������� patrd and as a motorcyde officer in Palm DPsert fdlowing a short sdnt as a police officer
the rrxueum.Tidcets are f5 for mernbers on the island d Guam.He was recendy assigned to the deparVrient's Special Errforcerr�end
and E10 for non-members. New T�get Team. His new dinies i�chide specific.aAy targeted enforcement prc�grarru within � `
rrx�rnbers who ' u attend 6ee. ���Y•The SET Team also conducts specialized enforcement and securily at Palm Desert �
� P Oflicer Rod Lo&ecque
In/ormadon:346-6588 civic events,as well as Gty bicycle and specialized vehide patrd.OFficer La&ecque serves
as the liaison officer to service areas that include the south side of Palm Desert and
all neighbortioods between Highway 111 and Country Club Drive.He can be contacted at
�labrecqOriversidesl�iff•org• f
Officer Robert Ramirez has worked for the departrr�ent for wer fiv�e years.He is atso
newly assigrxd to the Palm Desert Special EnfoRement/Target Team. In addition to ha
' duties wlth the SET Team,Officer Ramirez se�res as the liaison officer to service areas that /
indude most of Palm Desert's east side and the new nohtu�rn sphere of the Gry,includkig
, .�r the areas around the universiBes.He can be contacted at ruamire��ri�r�desF�aiff.o►g. pry���Robert Romirez
For more infomwtion,please call Palm Desert Pdice at 83/r1600.
The retum
to their regular hours, from 10 a.m.
to 6 p.m., beginning labor Day , ,,:�: Docent-Guicic't� ('ll�►�li
weekend.The free, canary yellow, ,
electrically powered carts allow Art Tours f ���� ��IF �•'�A�•.•
� �
shoppers to browse boutiques and �n Saturday,September 8,a fun and en6ghtening ^•��
galleries the length of world famous Uadition retums to the City of Palm Desert with the � � �/
EI Paseo without using their cars. •
start of a new season of free,docent�ulded puWic � ' -q /;�
Info�matan:3460611,ext.414 � tours. Held on the second Sawrday of each ,+ ��
Don't farget to rese►ve your tickets for month from September through June, these one- �
� hour tours provide interesting facts and insight into ,� •
reR�ming to BKJiORN Gdf dub r�ext �e Citys renowned public art coNection.
The SeQtember tour wiN expbre the 2007/2008
month,Octoberl0-14. �paseo Irrvitational Exhibition.A1 scfieduled tours �
Information:341-9440 �e place (rom 10- 11 a.m. Groups of four or
or wwwsamwng.com/goH more can xhedule a private tour o(any of the three
Iocations at their own convenience. For more
information,please visit www.palmdesertart.org or
. caH 568-5240.
. - . . �.:Y I�� �
� . Begins in front of Messenger d the Puul at the souih
Saturda};September 8,1007 entrance to the park off Fred Waring Drive.
3 � Saturd October 13,2007
� (northeost comer ol EI Poseo&Hwy 74) °Y
�� �� Saturday,December 8,2007 Saturday,�anuary 11,1008
����1 ;�` ' (northwes(comer of EI Paseo bt Portola) Saturday,April 12,2008
Saturday,March 8,2008
(northeast comer of El Poseo dt Hwy 74)
5�t�mber 23 Saturdoy,�une 14,1008 Meet at the�brary enVance.
(northwrst corner of fl Pnseo&Vortola) Saturdcry,November)0,2007
Saturday,Februnry 9,1008
29 Saturdcry,May 10,1008