HomeMy WebLinkAboutPARKS & REC CMSN - 03/06/07 � ��; - �.
CITY OF PALM DESERT
�'•'� PARKS 8� RECREATION COMMISSION
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MINUTES
MARCH 6, 2007
I. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Randy Guyer convened the meeting at 8:31 a.m.
II. ROLL CALL
Present: Excused Absence
Chairman Randy Guyer Commissioner Julie Munson
Commissioner Michael Barnard (Munson on Leave of Absence)
Commissioner Daniel Barnes Commissioner Phill Babcock
Commissioner Gerald Dawson
Commissioner David Garcia Absent
Vice Chair Terry Schukart Commissioner Roger Dash
Staff Present:
Robert Spiegel, Councilmember
Janis Steele, Parks & Recreation Services Manager
Jay Niemczak, Parks Maintenance Supervisor
Monica Loredo, Administrative Secretary
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. MINUTES OF THE MEETING FROM FEBRUARY 6, 2007 AND
MINUTES OF THE MEETING FROM FEBRUARY 20, 2007
Commissioner Dawson requested to amend page 3 of the minutes of
February 6, 2007, to add him to the Freedom Park Grand Opening
Committee.
Amended minutes of Parks & Recreation Commission from February 6,
2007, were approved. Motion moved/seconded by Dawson/Schukart
and carried by a 6-0 vote with Commissioners Babcock, Dash, and
Munson ABSENT. (Munson on LOA)
Minutes of Parks & Recreation Commission from February 20, 2007, were
approved as submitted. Motion moved/seconded by Dawson/Schukart
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and carried by a 6-0 vote with Commissioners Babcock, Dash, and
Munson ABSENT. (Munson on LOA)
IV. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
Mr. Tim Salvador, Resident, Palm Desert, addressed the Commission
concerning a flow rider as one of the amenities for the aquatic center. He
stated that he had done some research and has a case study that was
done by Republic, Missouri. He noted that he would leave a copy for the
Commission. Mr. Salvador referred to the study, stating that the traditional
swimming pool lost money. After the flow rider and supplemental water
attractions were built, the aquatic facility made a profit (for data, please
refer to the handout). Mr. Salvador commented that he would be attending
the next City Council meeting to attempt to change their minds. He stated
that he has made copies of the study for the City Council and has started
a petition. Mr. Salvador thanked the Commission for their time.
Chairman Guyer communicated to Mr. Salvador that the Commission
appreciates his efforts.
Mr. Ford, Coachella Valley Recreation and Park District (CVRPD),
announced that the District would be hosting the first Super Golf
Championship on April 5, at the facility on Cook Street for ages 7-15. He
commented that the weight equipment has been installed at the Palm
Desert Community Center. Last, he was notified a week ago from First
Tee, that the District has been approved as a new Chapter. He thanked
Councilman Spiegel for starting him on that project three years ago. Mr.
Ford handed a copy of First Tee's 2005 Annual Report. They had not sent
out the 2006 Annua! Report.
Councilman Spiegel asked the Commission if they were familiar with First
Tee. They responded yes.
Chairman Guyer asked Mr. Ford, what First Tee provides financially to the
CVRPD. Mr. Ford responded that First Tee had scaled back this year and
that the District was lucky to get in. He stated that First Tee would typicaliy
give the District $25,000 a year to be used at their discretion. Although,
after he reviewed the contract, it shows $10,000. He commented that he is
still reviewing the contract, and would let the Commission know if there
would be additional funds.
Commissioner Barnard commented that he thought he read in the
newspaper that the program is subsidized in the beginning. Mr. Ford
stated that the District would have to subsidize the full amount. He noted
that they would have to hire personnel to get the program rolling.
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Councilman Spiegel thanked Mr. Ford for starting the program.
Mr. Ballew, Family YMCA of the Desert, announced that on Saturday,
April 14, they would be having a National Healthy Kids Day. They will have
an open house with about 80 different agencies were families could learn
about healthy lifestyles. He also announced that on Saturday, April 7, they
would have an Easter Egg Hunt.
V. PRESENTATIONS - None
VI. NEW BUSINESS
A. DESERT CITIES BAPTIST CHURCH/CAHUILLA HILLS PARK
Discussion and recommendation on the possibility of the Desert
Cities Baptist Church allowing limited usage of the church's parking
lot for Cahuilla Hills Park users.
Mr. Niemczak stated that he met with Mr. John Holcomb, Desert Cities
Baptist Church, to discuss his concerns with the congestion, vandalism,
and parking issues at Cahuilla Hills Park. He informed the Commission
that Mr. Holcomb suggested having joint use parking, the possibility of
installing a security gate and asking CVRPD to open/close the gate, and
adding lighting to help with the vandalism problems. Mr. Niemczak
indicated that Mr. Holcomb was present to answer any questions. He
added that Mr. Holcomb is also requesting that the City redesign the
landscape to be more desert friendly and with some maintenance of the
parking lot if there was a joint use agreement.
Vice Chair Schukart asked Mr. Holcomb to clarify if the problem is the
congestion or the vandalism. Mr. Holcomb responded that the problem is
that the church parking lot is open and there are on�y seven spaces for the
park. On the weekends all spaces are filled, and people start to park at the
church. He feels that they could be good neighbors, but along with the
joint use parking comes other problems. The church is constantly picking
up beer bottles and there are dogs defecating on the church lawn. He
stated that the main concern for the church is if the parking lot is left open,
they are liable for anything that happens in the church parking lot. He
commented that there is no lighting and is pretty dark at night. They are
afraid someone might break an ankle or get raped while getting to the
hiking trail. Mr. Holcomb indicated that there are 24 parking spaces
adjacent to the park. Signage could be installed that says "Cahuilla Park
Parking" and people would park away from the church. He suggested
having low lighting and a gate installed. In addition, indemnify the church
for the use of the parking lot. Mr. Holcomb mentioned other vandalism
incidents that have occurred. He has also called the Sheriff's Department,
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and they were going to patrol more often. He feels the joint use parking
would be beneficial for the church and the City.
Councilmember Spiegel asked Mr. Holcomb how many parking spaces
the church has. He replied approximately 100 spaces in the upper parking
lot, and below the church in the dirt parking area has not been developed.
Councilman Spiegel asked if the church owns the undeveloped area. Mr.
Holcomb replied that the church owns the land down to where the road
begins. It was before his time, but he understands that there was a
property swap with the City, which is the undeveloped area.
Commissioner Dawson asked if the dirt road that is going toward the
mountain is a public or private road. Chairman Guyer responded that it is
part of the church parking lot. The Commission referred to the picture on
page five of the agenda packet. The road beyond the brown sign is a
private road that leads to private homes.
Vice Chair Schukart asked Mr. Holcomb where would the gate be
installed. Mr. Holcomb referred to the picture and indicated the location
(from wall to the pole that looks like it had been knocked over).
Chairman Guyer asked Mr. Holcomb when the church has services. He
replied they have services on Sunday from 9:30 a.m. to 11:30 a.m. and
they are all out by noon. On Tuesday nights they have a class, but there is
very little parking congestion.
Vice Chair Schukart asked Mr. Holcomb to clarify on indemnifying the
church for liability issues. He responded that he feels it would be nice to
be under the City's umbrella (insurance policy) for the parking lot. Vice
Chair Schukart commented that they would need to get a legal opinion.
Councilman Spiegel suggested to the Commission to have Staff work with
the church and come back to the Commission with a recommendation.
Ghairman Guyer added that he would also like to have Staff look into
developing the lower lot. Not necessarily paving it, or using something to
make it look like parking. He also suggested closing the church parking
lot. Councilman Spiegel added the possibility of adding signage that says
"No Parking on Sundays."
Mr. Holcomb prefers that people park at the higher end of the parking lot
because people could go directly into the park. If they park below the
church, people would more than likely drive their cars against the church
when a service is in progress. He also mentioned that he discussed with
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Staff the possibility of changing the grass area to desert landscape
because dogs seem to want to go on the grass. Staff told him that there
might be a program that could help make that change.
Commissioner Garcia asked where the grass area is located. Mr. Holcomb
referred to the picture. The grass area is befinreen the two palm trees and
the building.
Commissioner Garcia asked if the church uses the grass area for picnics.
Mr. Holcomb responded no.
Commissioner Garcia asked if Mr. Holcomb knows if hikers or other
people are doing the vandalism. He replied that the parking lot is open 24
hours, and it is a place to go after the bars close.
Commissioner Barnes commented that the parking has always been an
issue. He believes the Coachella Valley Water District is someway
connected with the undeveloped area. Chairman Guyer responded that
Staff would look into it.
Chairman Guyer stated that Staff is going to look at the lighting, the
possibility of installing a gate, changing the grass area landscape, and
developing the dirt lot (lower parking lot).
Councilman Spiegel suggested a Commissioner meeting with Staff and
the church representative. Vice Chair Schukart stated that he would meet
with them.
Chairman Guyer added that Staff would also have to look into the liability
issues.
Chairman Guyer thanked Mr. Holcomb for attending the meeting.
Councilman Spiegel thanked Mr. Holcomb for offering their parking lot.
B. HORSESHOE PITS AT HOVLEY SOCCER PARK
Discussion and recommendation to replace shuffleboards with
additional horseshoe pits.
Ms. Steele stated that there is a group of horseshoe players that use the
horseshoe pits at the Soccer Park frequently. The group recently
requested if the sand could be replaced because it was too fine. She
indicated that the Park Maintenance Staff was able to replace the sand,
and the group sent a thank you note (copy given to the Commission). Ms.
Steele noted that the group is large and are out playing every morning.
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The group is also requesting that the City consider replacing the
shuffleboards with additional horseshoe pits since the shuffleboards are
never used.
Chairman Guyer asked if the shuffleboards had any appearance of usage.
Mr. Niemczak responded that they have never seen anyone using them.
Chairman Guyer asked if people have to bring their own equipment. Staff
replied yes.
Vice Chair Schukart commented that he walks and jogs a lot at the Soccer
Park, and he has never seen anyone using the shuffleboards.
Commissioner Barnes asked if people bring their own horseshoe
equipment. Staff replied yes.
Commissioner Barnard asked if the concrete would be taken out. Ms.
Steele responded yes.
Commissioner Dawson asked how many horseshoe pits would be
installed if the shuffleboards were replaced. Mr. Niemczak replied three or
four.
Commissioner Barnard asked if there is another use for the concrete
rather than shuffleboards. Vice Chair Schukart replied that the concrete is
not very big.
Commissioner Barnes commented that as soon as the shuffleboards are
taken out, someone is going to complain.
Ms. Steele suggested advertising and see if Staff receives any comments.
Chairman Guyer suggested advertising in the Bright Side and the
newspaper looking for feedback or impact before the shuffleboards are
demolished.
Chairman Barnard commented that it is popular in some of the parks.
VII. UNF{NISHED BUSINESS - None
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VIII. REPORTS AND UPDATES
A. CVRPD
Ms. Steele reported that a report was prepared by the CVRPD for the last
City Council meeting. She commented that she included the information
as an informational item. She noted that the City Council voted to delay
any action on an initiation of detachment for six months.
Commissioner Barnes commented that he was impressed with the report.
The program looks very ambitious. He noted that he did not see any
basketball or racquetball programs, and asked how many racquetball
courts they have. Mr. Ford responded that they have two. Commissioner
Barnes asked if they are used. Mr. Ford replied yes. Mr. Dewitt, CVRPD,
interjected that there are some basketball winter/summer leagues listed on
page 37 of the agenda packet. He also added that the District has a
summer basketball camp. Mr. Dewitt indicated that they are putting
together some racquetball tournaments at the Palm Desert and the Indio
Centers.
Commissioner Barnes asked if they are having any volleyball programs.
Ms. Adair, CVRPD, is working on putting together some outdoor volleyball
leagues. She mentioned that she is working with City Staff to add sand to
the volleyball court at the Civic Center.
Commissioner Barnes asked if all the activities they are presenting are
going to fit in the Palm Desert facility. Mr. Dewitt responded that space is
limited.
Commissioner Barnard asked what date is being used for the six-month
extension. Ms. Steele believes the date that will be used is the August
date.
Councilman Spiegel commented that it would probably be visited for the
first City Council meeting in September. The Council only meets once in
August.
Commissioner Barnes asked the District if they have the personnel to run
the very ambitious program. Mr. Ford responded that it all has been in the
planning stage for a couple of years, and it would all have to be done in
stages. He stated that they do have the staff to run the programs.
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B. AQUATIC CENTER UPDATE
Ms. Steele reported that the aquatic center was on the last City Council
agenda. The item was not approved with a 3-2 vote. They would only
approve a competition pool. Councilman Spiegel recommended to the
Council that the item be taken back to the Parks and Recreation
Commission for a further recommendation. Ms. Steele stated that she is
only bringing forward of what happened at the City Council meeting at this
time. City Staff will be collecting information on cost recovery for such a
facility, and return to the Commission with a more comprehensive report.
Vice Chair Schukart commented that they could downsize the pool and
sell the idea of the amenities to cut down the costs. Councilman Spiegel
interjected that he did not see there was a problem with the cost. He saw
a problem with the competition (Palm Springs Water Park). They also did
not want a water park--only a pool. He commented that there were quite a
few members from the Commission present at the meeting, but no one got
up to speak, which he felt was unfortunate. He noted that the gentleman
that addressed the Commission at the beginning of the meeting is going to
be at the next City Council meeting and request that the item be revisited.
Vice Chair Schukart commented that he thought about getting up and
speaking, but then he felt that the Council did not have all the information.
He guaranteed that he would speak next time. He stated that the staff
report did not show the impact of just having a hole in the ground. Ms.
Steele commented that the information was not included since the original
feasibility provided that information and selected a design. She felt they
did not have a reason to believe that the Council needed to see that again.
Commissioner Dawson asked Mr. Steele, when additional information is
compiled, would information from the survey be included. Ms. Steele
replied that she would include it again. She mentioned that she has
contacted other agencies in California asking what type of facilities they
have, what type of features, what their operating costs are, what are their
expenses, what are their revenues, and their cost recovery rate. She has
some information, but has not been able to compile the information.
Mr. Ford commented that from a recreational standpoint and the public, a
competition pool is not going to meet their needs; iYs going to be a tough
decision. He wished the Commission good luck.
Chairman Guyer stated that he had understood Councilman Ferguson
sent it back to the Commission with the recommendation that they only
look at a competition pool.
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Councilman Spiegel commented that he voted against Councilman
Ferguson's recommendation. He indicated that Councilman Ferguson did
not want it to come back to the Commission. He wanted Parks Staff to
come back to the City Council with only a pool. If a competition pool is
approved, Staff would have to go back to the City Council with the costs
and what type of usage a competition would get.
Councilman Spiegel mentioned that he received an e-mail that said,
"When Desert Willow was built, they could not build just a community golf
course. The City built a golf course with amenities." He stated that Desert
Willow makes money, and if you were to build just a community golf
course, it would not make money.
A comment was made that Councilmember Finerty stated at the Council
meeting that she felt the City should not be charging. Chairman Guyer
responded that Councilmember Finerty's concern was competing with
private enterprises. The Commission responded that competing with
private enterprises is done all the time, e.g., Desert Willow.
Commissioner Barnard felt that City Council had two issues. One being
the $8 million price tag, and second was that maybe they did not know
how much money other stakeholders would be contributing. Councilman
Spiegel responded that they knew that information since there were at the
study sessions.
Vice Chair Schukart commented that maybe some of the Council
Members were receiving pressure from the outside. He does not recall
from the study sessions any of the concerns that were mentioned at the
City Council meeting.
Commissioner Garcia asked if the City Council is dead set against the
project except for only a competition pool, and nothing that the
Commission could say is going to change their mind or it is that they
simply need more information. Councilman Spiegel commented that it is
up to the Commission to lobby for the pool and amenities.
Chairman Guyer stated that it was his understanding that the Council only
wants the Commission to consider a lap pool. He indicated from his point
view he would vote no on that recommendation.
Ms. Steele commented that the Commission never considered just a pool.
Originally, all schemes included slides. Staff never gave information to the
Council on costs for a competition pool. She noted that cost wise, it is not
going to be a substantial decrease to build what they are talking about.
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Ms. Steele feels that Council needs to have more information along with
the Commission's recommendation.
Commissioner Dawson recommends that Staff provide information on
costs, benefits, and returns for just having a lap pool for the next
Commission meeting.
Chairman Guyer requested that more information on a lap pool is added to
the ne� agenda.
Commissioner Barnes commented that he has been looking at the pool for
the last 10-12 years. He voiced that he is in favor of the pool at College of
the Desert (COD), but has never has liked the idea of a pool as proposed
with all the amenities. He has concerns with what the residents of the City
really want, the size is bad, the parking is bad, and the joint use with the
(COD) is bad, and the location is bad. He commented that COD needs a
swimming pool, and the City should give them a pool. The City should let
COD run the pool and pay for the yearly maintenance. He stated that it
would be a disaster trying to run two different programs.
Vice Chair commented that the COD Board of Trustees would probably
not agree to have just a pool where they are going to have to pay
$100,000 to $200,000 a year to support. As a result, the Board wanted to
form an agreement with the City on the present plan because they are not
interested in creating another pool that they would have to support.
Vice Chair Schukart and Commissioner Barnes briefly discussed potential
conflicts with programming between the City and COD.
Ms. McGalliard, CVRPD, commented that when the CVRPD ran the pool
for COD, they would have multiple programs going on at the same time.
The programming is doable.
Councilman Spiegel asked Commissioner Barnes what location does he
suggest to build a pool. He responded on the land on Gerald Ford next to
the Marriott timeshares. Councilman Spiegel interjected that land does not
belong to COD. Councilman Spiegel asked how would COD run programs
from that location? He stated that COD wants the pool on the campus.
Commissioner Barnes stated that there is not enough space at COD and
is concerned with the location. Vice Chair Schukart commented that there
is enough space.
Chairman Guyer would also like to know if there are any municipal pools
that have been converted because they had to in order to continue.
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Councilman Spiegel asked Mr. Ballew how much it costs to run the pool in
La Quinta. Mr. Ballew responded that they are losing under $100,000, and
mentioned that it would be difficult to compare apples to apples.
Ms. Steele stated she would get more information. She also briefly
mentioned the scheme changed after they received the survey.
Commission Barnes recommended for the Commission to review the
meeting minutes from September 7, 2005, when the aquatic center was
presented.
C. UNIVERSITY PARK UPDATE
Ms. Steele reported that at the last meeting someone had requested that
the site maps for the University Park are brought back since there were
new Commissioners. She commented that maps have changed a little due
to some landscape and irrigation needs. The amenities have not changed,
but there was a restroom added to the dog park. There are two parks that
are supposed to be completed in FY 2007/08. She commented that she
does not have a date for the other two parks, which depends on the
housing market and how well new homes sell.
Vice Chair Schukart asked when would the foundation for the homes
begin in that area. Councilman Spiegel replied that it depends on supply
and demand.
Vice Chair Schukart asked if there would be a concern with people that
have moved in and there are construction vehicles going through the
neighborhood. Mr. Croy responded that the parks would be built along
with the homes. The homeowners understand that there is going to be
some construction traffic for a period of time until the project is complete.
Commissioner Barnes asked for the acreage of the park on page 80 of the
agenda packet. Ms. Steele replied 4.7 acres.
Commissioner Barnes asked if there would be any concerns with possible
park lighting problems and if people are aware of problems that come with
parks. Chairman Guyer responded that there might not be any issues
because there are no ball fields. It was commented that any impacts are
being considered.
D. CITY PARK OPERATIONAL COSTS
Ms. Steele reported that she was asked to look at costs for maintenance
of the parks for the City Council. She indicated that she included a copy of
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the report in the agenda packet (page 84) as an informational item. Ms.
Steele went over the costs.
Ms. Steele mentioned that Mayor Pro Tem Benson did ask why water for
the Civic Center costs less that the water at Freedom Park. Chairman
Guyer asked the same question. Mr. Niemczak responded that the Civic
Center Park has a dedicated well and Freedom Park does not. Mr. Croy
added that if the Coachella Valley Water District decides to install a water
line along the freeway, it might provide a source for the City to lower the
water costs.
Chairman Guyer asked if the irrigation at Freedom Park has been setup
so that it could be converted easily if the line is installed. Staff replied yes.
Chairman Guyer asked Mr. Croy if there is a way for the City to lobby or
present to the State to change the law so that a portion of the
Development fees could be used to maintain the mature parks. Mr. Croy
responded that the City would have to lobby in Sacramento or have a
voter-approved tax (2/3 majority vote). The approval of a vote is very low.
He indicated Staff could look into it. Ms. Steele added that she would also
check with the California Parks Society Association.
E. PARK INSPECTIONS
No comments.
IX. COMMISSIONER COMMENTS
Commissioner Barnes asked if there were any updates on the interactive
water fountain. Ms. Steele responded no. Mr. Niemczak stated that the
group never came out to check the equipment, but that he would try again.
X. ADJOURNMENT
Upon motion by Commissioner Barnard, seconded by Commissioner
Dawson, and unanimous vote of the Commission, Chairman Guyer
adjourned the meeting at 10:04 a.m.
Monica Loredo, Recording Secretary
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