HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks & Rec Cmsn - 09/18/07 CITY OF PALM DESERT
��•'� PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION
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MINUTES
SEPTEMBER 18, 2007
I. CALL TO ORDER
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Chairman Randy Guyer convened the meeting at 8:30 a.m. w
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II. ROLL CALL �
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Present: Excused Absence � �
Chairman Randy Guyer Commissioner Julie Mu n °;
Vice Chair Terry Schukart (Munson on Leave of A �
Commissioner Phill Babcock o �
Commissioner Michael Barnard H W -�+
Commissioner Daniel Barnes W � �
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Commissioner Roger Dash Q o �,
Commissioner Gerald Dawson ' � ' "��
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Staff Present: � �
Robert Spiegel, Councilmember � �-
Janis Steele, Parks & Recreation Services Manager H H � '' �; �,
Jay Niemczak, Parks Facilities Manager � - ` Q �� � `'
Monica Loredo, Administrative Secretary � o � � „ H a ;�
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III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES H � � =� �-' r� ZY•
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A. MINUTES OF THE MEETING FROM AUGUST 21, 2b �a z � � � �
MINUTES OF THE MEETING FROM SEPTEMBER 4, 2007
Minutes of the Parks and Recreation Commission meeting of August 21,
2007, were approved as submitted. Motion moved/seconded by
Dawson/Barnard and carried by a 7-0 vote with Commissioner
Munson ABSENT. (Munson on LOA)
Minutes of the Parks and Recreation Commission meeting of September
4, 2007, were approved as submitted. Motion moved/seconded by
Dash/Dawson and carried by a 7-0 vote with Commissioner Munson
ABSENT. (Munson on LOA)
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IV. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS - None
V. PRESENTATIONS
A. DESERT BICYCLE CLUB
Mr. Gary Lueders, Director of Public Relations for the Desert Bicycle Club,
introduced Mr. Jack Tino, founder of the club, and Mr. George Stork, a
member of the club.
Mr. Lueders presented a Power Point presentation to the Commission
concerning bicycle lanes in the City of Palm Desert. He stated that their
main concern is Cook Street, which is slated to expand to six lanes and
eliminating the bike lane. Second, when Highway 74 is relinquished from
the State, he requested for the City to look into installing a bike lane. He
noted that the Coachella Valley Association of Governments (CVAG) has
funds available to install bike lanes. He concluded that bike lanes are the
safest way for cyclists to travel. He thanked the Commission for their time,
and hopes to work with the City concerning the bike lanes.
Commissioner Dash asked what is the difference between Class I, Class
II, and Class III lanes. Mr. Lueders responded that the information has
been provided in the agenda packet.
• Class I: Bike path with exclusive right-of-way and cross flows by
motorists minimized. Two-way paved bike path is 8' minimum
width with 2' graded area on each side of the pavement.
• Class II: Bike lane for preferential use by bicycles established within
the paved area of a road. Pavement markings are intended to
promote an orderly flow of traffic and shall be one-way facilities.
Minimum bike lane with no parking on roads is 4'.
• Class III: Bike routes are intended to provide continuity to a
bikeway system in areas where Class I and Class II are not
possible and are established by placing bike route signs along the
roadway.
Commissioner Dash asked Mr. Lueders what is the City's reaction in
regards to his suggestion to relocate a bike lane from Cook Street to
Portola. He responded that he has talked to Mr. Phil Joy, Associate
Transportation Planner. Mr. Joy did not have a response regarding
Portola, and that there is also an intent to widen the road. He noted that
Cook Street has access to the freeway, and eventually so would Portola.
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Mr. Tino commented that he was told that the City wants to do away with
all bike lanes, put them on the sidewalk and let the chips fall where they
may.
Councilman Spiegel asked who made this comment to him. Mr. Tino
responded the City Engineers. Councilman Spiegel asked which engineer.
He did not give a name.
Mr. Lueders commented that he has had some dialogue with the
Engineering Department. Mr. Joy has been very active in striping the area
around the university.
Commissioner Dawson asked for more information on the Bicycle League.
Mr. Lueders responded that the League of American Bicycles was started
in the 1800's as League of American Wheelman. They started promoting
better roads before automobiles. Simply so they could have a better road
to ride on. They have evolved to a national advocacy organization based
in Washington, DC. The League has had a lot of influence on several
legislations related to bicycles.
Mr. Steven Sims, President of Go Bike, introduced himself to the
Commission. He commented that he is an advisor on bicycling with his
group Go Bike. They are also representatives of the League of American
Bicycles; they are on the board of directors of the California Bicycling
Coalition, and on the CALTRANS Safe Streets for Kids Program. He
communicated that he finds it unbelievable that the City of Palm Desert
would consider eliminating bike lanes. His group worked many years ago
to develop a bicycle friendly community. He stated that Palm Desert
should be aiming at being bicycle friendly. He indicated that all
communities in the valley are working with CVAG to develop safe routes
for schools. Mr. Sims noted that there is the Safe Routes to School
California Bill AB 57. He also suggested that the Commission look at the
Complete Streets Act AB 1358. AB 1358 says, that all new development
of streets in any California community would need to have safe bike lanes
and safe pedestrian walkways. He stated that he was available for any
questions. Mr. Sims noted that he just returned from the International
Bike/Walk Conference in Davis, California. He hopes that the Commission
takes into consideration that bicycling is not a novelty. It is very important
in the weave of the Palm Desert community. He thanked the Commission
for their time.
Chairman Guyer thanked Mr. Lueders for the presentation. He
commented that they are preaching to the choir, and that the Commission
is on their side. He stated that a lot has to do with transportation issues.
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Mr. Lueders reaffirmed that bicycle lanes are in the City's General Plan.
He mentioned that he was told that the General Plan was going to be
changed related to bicycling. Mr. Lueders commented the City would need
public input, and their group would like to be part of that.
Chairman Guyer asked Mr. Lueders if they approached the Commission
because the bike lanes are under the Parks and Recreation Element of
the General Plan, and they are not receiving a response from the Planning
Department. Mr. Lueders replied yes.
Chairman Guyer asked if most other cities have it in the Planning
Department. Mr. Lueders responded that they usually have it under the
Circulation Element.
Chairman Guyer asked if the City could make that change to the General
Plan. Councilman Spiegel responded that they could look at making that
change.
Councilman Spiegel asked the group if they have ever spoken to the
Public Safety Committee at CVAG. Mr. Lueders replied no. Councilman
Spiegel suggested that they do that.
Councilman Spiegel commented that the Commission should make a
recommendation to the City Council regarding bike lanes, but Ms. Steele
should provide information on where the bike lanes are located. He stated
that if there cannot be bike lanes on Cook Street then there should be
lanes on Portola. He is not sure why Cook Street could not have bike
lanes when the road is widened. He asked how many feet are needed. Mr.
Lueders responded that 4' is the minimum. He also noted that Mr. Waggle
from CVAG told him that there are funds available.
Councilman Spiegel suggested that the Commission find out where the
City currently stands concerning bike lanes and where we would like to go.
Once the information is put together, make a recommendation to the City
Council.
Mr. Lueders stated that he appreciates the Commission's help.
Councilman Spiegel asked Mr. Lueders for his business card so that he
could make sure the Bicycle Club is added to the CVAG Public Safety
Committee agenda.
Councilman Spiegel suggested that the Commission recommend that
Highway 74 have bike lanes only as far as the Art Smith Trail.
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Councilman Spiegel suggested also looking at Gerald Ford.
Councilman Spiegel asked if Mr. Joy is working on a bike lane map. Ms.
Steele responded she would check. He asked if the map could be brought
to the Commission so that they could take a look at it.
Ms. Steele stated that Staff would return with more information on bike
trails.
Chairman Guyer commented to Mr. Lueders that the City would be
interested in their input on the trail by the railroad tracks. Mr. Lueders
noted that he is on the board of the Coachella Valley Trails Alliance.
VI. NEW BUSINESS - None
VII. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
A. DATE GROVE FIELD DESIGN
Discussion and approval of the revised design of the date grove
field.
Mr. Niemczak stated that Staff took back the Commission's comments
from the last meeting to the architect, and changes have been made to the
design. He noted that the restrooms were moved closer to the tennis court
sidewalk, and bocce ball courts were added. He explained that he had
done some research on bocce ball and petanque courts. It seems that the
courts might be interchangeable so that bocce ball could be combined
with petanque, and eliminate the large court in the middle.
Chairman Guyer suggested for Staff to receive feedback from the bocce
ball and petanque users. Mr. Niemczak responded that he would get some
feedback and return to the Commission with the information.
Chairman Guyer suggested keeping both bocce ball courts and
eliminating the petanque court. And move the horseshoe pit closer to the
park and away from the date grove. Mr. Niemczak responded that the
petanque players are fairly active, and they are the ones that requested
that a court be installed.
Chairman Guyer stated that if it is possible that bocce ball and petanque
could be on the same court, he suggested moving the courts and the
horseshoe pit closer to the park so that there is more activity.
Commissioner Babcock commented that he had concerns that there are
not enough shade structures. Ms Steele responded that there is a second
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map in the agenda packets showing where there are currently shade
structures, and to look where other pavilions could be added.
Commissioner Babcock stated that he did not receive a copy of the map.
A copy would be given to him.
Mr. Niemczak stated that the Family YMCA and the Coachella Valley
Recreation and Park District (CVRPD) utilize the area by the basketball
courts quite a bit. He suggested having a shelter in that area.
Chairman Guyer mentioned that there is a lot of activity that goes on in the
area too. It would get rid of a lot of the grassy area.
Commissioner Barnes commented that he is confused with the map on
page 45 of the agenda packet. He asked if the map is authentic. Mr.
Niemczak responded that it is an aerial photo with the amenities overlaid
onto the photo.
Commissioner Barnes asked if Staff is still looking at installing five
petanque courts and ten bocce ball courts. Chairman Guyer responded
yes. Commissioner Barnes inquired why so many courts are needed. Mr.
Niemczak replied that is why he suggested scaling the courts down, and
combining them so that they do not take so much space.
Councilman Spiegel stated to Commissioner Barnes that Staff would be
coming back to the Commission with fewer courts.
Commissioner Barnes commented that the bocce ball courts in the middle
of the field is not a good location because it would interfere with other
activities, such as throwing ball. He asked what were the green things on
the map. Staff replied that they are trees. Commissioner Barnes
suggested taking out the trees from that area. He would like to see the
field left open.
Chairman Guyer asked Commissioner Barnes his opinion on how many
courts he would like to see. He replied that he does not know much about
petanque; maybe three is enough to get started. He suggested asking the
people.
Vice Chair Schukart asked Mr. Niemczak if the area would be graded and
become a little more leveled. He responded that they could certainly do
that. He explained that in the past there was an issue with irrigation but
that problem has been repaired. Staff could start making that area more
playable.
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Vice Chair Schukart commented that if the area were to be leveled, it
would probably be utilized more often.
Chairman Guyer asked if the restrooms would be more visible from the
volleyball courts. Mr. Niemczak replied yes.
Commissioner Dash indicated that at the last meeting it was mentioned
that residents might contest the location of the courts if they were moved
away from the center, and asked if that was resolved. Chairman Guyer
responded that the residents might contest the whole project.
Mr. Niemczak stated that he would return to Commission with changes to
the design. Staff is putting them closer together so that problem does not
occur again.
VIII. REPORTS AND UPDATES
A. SAN PABLO COMMUNITY GARDENS
Mr. Niemczak reported that the gardens on San Pablo were built
approximately eight or nine years ago, and the plots have started to
deteriorate from heavy use and weight of soil. He indicated that funds
were budgeted to rebuild the plots in FY 2007/2008 and in the five-year
Capital Improvement Project Plan. Half of the plots will be built this fiscal
year, and the other half during the next fiscal year, if approved. Mr.
Niemczak explained that they are using recycled wood and composted
soil from green waste to be environmentally friendly.
Chairman Guyer commented that he has heard of concrete forms that are
like a plasticize wood and would last forever. Mr. Niemczak replied that he
has not heard of the material before.
Chairman Guyer stated that it might be something to look into so that the
plots do not have to be replaced all the time.
Vice Chair Schukart commented that he had a friend that rebuilt his deck
and used recycled plastics, which is suppose to have a 50-life expectancy.
He described that from a distance it looked like redwood.
Mr. Niemczak noted that the current supports were not close to each other
and are now bowing.
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B. AQUATIC CENTER (ORAL REPORT)
Ms. Steele distributed a copy of the pool design. She reported that at the
last City Council meeting, Staff was directed to add a current channel (lazy
river). She noted that Councilman Spiegel was the advocate to add the
recreational feature. Ms. Steele indicated that she is discussing the
changes with the architects, and should be back to the City Council for the
first meeting of October.
Councilman Spiegel explained why he was an advocate for the
recreational feature. He stated that he could not get what he really
wanted, and everyone knows that the pool is going to be an expensive
deal on an annual maintenance basis. He continued to explain that the
design of the pool now is geared towards kids and competitive swimmers,
and not for the mature groups (ages 20 to 30+). For that reason, he
recommended the current channel, which might attract the mature groups.
Chairman Guyer asked Vice Chair Schukart if the City would need to
contact the College of the Desert (COD) concerning the changes to the
pool design. Vice Chair Schukart replied no.
Chairman Guyer asked Vice Chair Schukart if COD would have a problem
with the location of the current channel. He foresees no problem, but that
there may have to be a change to the contract.
Councilman Spiegel commented that after talking to Ms. Steele, it was
mentioned that COD has no plans of having a swim team because local
community colleges do not have swim teams and COD would have to
travel too far. Vice Chair Schukart confirmed that travel is an issue, and
many of the community colleges do not have swim teams.
Vice Chair Schukart commented that he would love to have a swim team
at COD, but it would cost a decent amount of money that is not in the
budget.
Commissioner Barnard asked if the redesign of the pool would come back
to the Commission before it goes to the City Council. Ms. Steele
responded that due to time constraints, she would send out the design at
the same time the City Council agenda packets are mailed out.
Councilman Spiegel agreed.
Commissioner Barnes asked for clarification of the pool design. He asked
if it has a 50-yard pool and different diving board types. Ms. Steele
responded that there are two one-meter and two three-meter boards. He
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asked if there was a diving board tower. Ms. Steele replied that there is
with three levels. He asked if you need 30 feet of water when you have
diving towers. Ms. Steele replied 16 feet. He asked if the pool was going
to cost $9,777,077 (without the lazy river). Ms. Steele replied yes. He
asked if the annual operating cost was expected to be $1,447,884. Ms.
Steele responded that the operating cost was $1.1 million. She made the
correction at the Council meeting. He asked how much does the City
expect to get back. Ms. Steele responded if the pool is managed well, the
City could expect a maximum of 35% ($350,000) cost recovery.
Commissioner Barnes stated that in his 38 years in the military, 38 years
in business, and 20 years on the Parks and Recreation Commission, the
pool is the most ridiculous project he has ever seen. The City does not
need an Olympic size swimming pool. If the City Council had done their
homework and anyone else that asked for this design, would learn that an
Olympic size swimming pool is not for municipalities in the State of
California. All they had to do was go down to Palm Springs, Pasadena,
and the Rose Bowl to do some investigating to find out that an Olympic
size pool are not the big thing. The kids that are involved in swim teams
here in the desert do not need that kind of pool. Why they need the diving
boards in the design are way beyond him.
Councilman Spiegel interjected to Commissioner Barnes that he is going
down the wrong road. Commissioner Barnes interrupted that he would like
to finish his comment. Councilman Spiegel voiced that he certainly could
finish his comment and could do whatever he wants to on the
Commission--but that everyone has already heard it and that he is going
down the same road, and it would alienate members of the Council.
Commissioner Barnes exclaimed that he does not give a damn about
alienating the people on the Council, and that he thinks they are a bunch
of idiots.
Commissioner Barnes asked the Commission if they are thinking of
bringing the Olympic games to Palm Desert in 2020. He asked why an
Olympic size pool is needed. Chairman Guyer responded that there are
tournaments that have to be in a 50-meter pool. Commissioner Barnes
voiced that the City does not need a 50-meter pool.
Commissioner Barnes asked how many acres is the pool going to take.
Ms. Steele responded that the number of acres has not changed, which is
approximately three acres.
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Commissione� Barnes asked if the ridiculous design is going to fit into the
three acres. Ms. Steele responded yes.
Commissioner Barnes asked who is going to manage the pool. Ms. Steele
remarked that Staff has not addressed it yet. It will be addressed once the
design is decided upon.
Commissioner Barnes asked who is sharing the cost and who is going to
be the genius to figure that out. Ms. Steele interjected that COD is not
going to participate in the operating costs; only the construction costs.
Commissioner Barnes asked who is going to check which people are
authorized to use the pool. Ms. Steele responded it would be the
manager. She explained that the manager would be tasked with
programming, scheduling, recommending fees, and hiring staff. She
noted that it has not gotten that far yet.
Commissioner Spiegel interrupted explaining that he has to leave the
meeting, but wanted to make one last announcement. He indicated that
Ms. Steele has put together a schedule to make a couple of trips for the
City Cou�ci4, and �opefully, for some members of the Commission to look
at community centers in California. Three are in the San Diego area, and
three are in the Rancho Cucamonga/Cerritos area. He commented that all
are not going to be on the same day, but it would be wonderful if it could
be done. He said it would take two days, probably on a Thursday. It would
take all day. Councilman Spiegel stated that Ms. Steele would be giving
the Commission a handout with information on all the community centers.
The Commission thanked Councilman Spiegel.
Counci4ma� Spiege4 4eft tne meeting.
Commissioner Babcock communicated that he agrees with Commissioner
Barnes on what he said concerning the pool design. He stated that the
pool does not represent anything that the people wanted from the survey
that was completed. He voiced that the pool design is not what the people
want. He asked what is the City doing for the people. Chairman Guyer
responded that the Commission has recommended twice to the City
Council what the citizens wanted. The City Council has decided that is not
what they want to do, and the Council is going to do something different.
Any comments that the Commission wants make concerning the aquatic
center have to go the City Council. He stated that the Commission is no
longer involved. The Parks and Recreation Commission have been told by
the Council that they are no longer involved.
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Commissioner Barnes interjected that is very disgraceful. He stated that
he would resign from the Commission before he would ever add his name
on any endorsement of the aquatic center. He added that once he is
finished taking the City Council to the soccer park and having them roll in
the ground were the dogs have done their business, he is going to take
the three City Council members that are promoting this design, and have
them jump off the diving platform together.
Chairman Guyer suggested to Commissioner Barnes that he set an
appointment with the three Council members and let them know what
should be done. Commissioner Barnes responded that the Commission
has already told them what should be done and they ignore the
Commission, which bothers him.
Commissioner Barnes voiced that he was going to resign from the
Commission and go before the City Council as a resident of this City, and
tell them how stupid they are.
Commissioner Dash asked Chairman Guyer if he meant that there are
three City Council members that are thinking of changing the design.
Chairman Guyer clarified that there are three members that do not agree
with the Commission's recommendation, and have requested that it be
changed to what they want.
Commissioner Dash asked if the three members are very firm on their
decision. Chairman Guyer replied yes.
Commissioner Babcock asked when it would be going to the Council. Ms.
Steele replied October 11, 2007. Chairman Guyer commented that the
Commission does not have to wait for the next Council meeting. Anyone
could make an appointment to talk to the three Council members.
C. PARK INSPECTIONS
Ms. Steele reminded the Commission to send in their park inspection
sheets. She noted that she would be redoing the calendar to cover
Commissioner Garcia's areas unless someone wants to volunteer to do it
for September. Chairman Guyer stated that he would take his area over
this month.
1X. COMMISSIONER COMMENTS
Ms. Steele announced that Mr. Don Sutton has accepted to be honored at
the International Sports Festival (Senior Games).
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Ms. Steefe announced that the Coacheila Valley Recreation and Park
District is having a concert in the Civic Center Park on Thursday,
September 20, from 6:30 to 9:00 p.m. Loverboy would be performing.
She stated that Michoacana Dance Group would be performing in the
amphitheater on Friday night. There is going to be a Recovery Awareness
and Child Abuse Prevention Day at the amphitheater on September 29.
Ms. Steele commented that she had given the Commission a copy of the
Parks Guide and Dog Park Brochure. If anyone wants more copies, she
has more in her office. She noted that they have been distributed to the
YMCA, CVRPD, Visitor Center, and City Hall. She commented that she
had a meeting with the Animal Control Officer, and he has taken some
brochures to pass out. He is also doing some spot checks at dog parks.
Vice Chair Schukart commented that he has kindly given some brochures
to people that have their dogs off leash at the soccer park. He noted that
no one took a swing at him or called him names.
Chairman Guyer suggested taking some of the dog brochures to Palm
Desert pet stores. Ms. Steele responded that Staff could have that done.
Commissioner Barnes reported that Steve Simon from Indian Wells
Tennis Garden got back to him this week, and he confirmed that Billy Jean
King does not live in the desert, and does not intend to live in the desert. It
was also confirmed that Rosie Casals lives in Indian Ridge.
Mr. Rob Ballew distributed the Fall/Winter 2007-08 Program Brochure. He
also announced that there is an invitation for the YMCA's 25�h Anniversary
Celebration in the Palm Desert Civic Center Park scheduled for Saturday,
October 13, 2007, from 3:00 to 6:00 p.m.
X. ADJOURNMENT
Upon motion by Vice Chair Schukart, seconded by Commissioner
Dawson, the meeting was adjourned at 9:44 a.m.
Monica Loredo, Recording Secretary
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