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HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks & Rec Cmsn - 09/15/09 ��� CITY OF PALM DESERT � � PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT INTEROFFICE MEMORANDUM TO: Rachelle D. Klassen, City Clerk n , FROM: Beth Longman, Administrative Secretary ��`� DATE: October 6, 2009 SUBJECT: Submission of Minutes for the Parks and Recreation Commission Attached is a copy of the approved Minutes from the September 15, 2009, meeting of the Parks and Recreation Commission. This meeting was a special meeting called to discuss the aquatic center. Please let me know if you have any questions or need additional information. Thank you. Attachment (as noted) C1TY CO�I]�C(LACT[f)N A!'6'ROVED 1)�NiA�,� RI;Ci;1VE1) � Fi P. 01��W�iC:I� MFF,TING DATE -�� �� � AYF.S: '/ � c � � NOFS: ����- � AI3SENT: .5 � ARSTAIN: e- VCRIFIED BY: Originat on File with City Clerk's ftice G:\PubWorks\Meetings\Parks and Rec Commission\Minute Transmittal.doc CITY OF PALM DESERT ��•�� PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION � � MINUTES SEPTEMBER 15, 2009 I. CALL TO ORDER Chairman Barnard convened the meeting at 8:32 a.m. II. ROLL CALL Present: Excused Absence Chairman Michael Barnard Commissioner Julie Munson Vice Chair Roger Dash (Munson on Leave of Absence) Commissioner Jerry Dawson Commissioner Randy Guyer Absent Commissioner Kim Housken Commissioner Phill Babcock Commissioner Terry Schukart Commissioner Deborah Hall Staff Present: Janis Steele, Parks and Recreation Services Manager Jay Niemczak, Parks Facilities Manager Mark Greenwood, Director of Public Works Beth Longman, Administrative/Recording Secretary � Ryan Stendell, Senior Management Analyst � � John Wohlmuth, City Manager Guests: Barb Adair, Desert Recreation District Rod Ballew, YMCA of the Desert Craig DeWitt, Desert Recreation District Stan Ford, Desert Recreation District Dick Kelly, Councilman Laura McGalliard, Desert Recreation District Ken Moeller, Arch Pac Aquatics Jeff Ronci, Desert Recreation District Van Tanner, Chairman of Planning Commission Gina Tenorio, The Desert Sun Ana Escalenta, ESCalente Architects Alex Meyerhoff, ESCalente Architects 1 PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES SEPTEMBER 15, 2009 III. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS Rod Ballew commented that on September 19, 2009, there will be a free flag football clinic for children ages six to 12 years, and that an adult league is also beginning. IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. MINUTES OF THE MEETING FROM SEPTEMBER 1, 2009 The Minutes of the meeting of September 1, 2009, were approved as submitted. Motion moved/seconded by Guyer/Dawson, and carried by a 6-0 vote with Commissioners Babcock, Hall and Munson ABSENT. V. UNFINISHED BUSINESS - None VI. NEW BUSINESS A. RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY COUNCIL ON SITE AND AMENITIES OF THE COMMUNITY AQUATIC CENTER Ms. Janis Steele stated that the City Manager requested staff to revisit the concept of a community pool. Ms. Steele introduced Mr. Ken Moeller, Arch Pac Aquatics, who prepared the current plans and who has worked on previous plans for pool sites for the City of Palm Desert. Ms. Steele reviewed the previously proposed sites and noted that the original College of the Desert (COD) site was a different size now than in previous plans � because the �driving range has been extended, which � substantially reduces the parking available at that site. Mr. Moeller noted that golf balls from the driving range may be a problem. Ms. Steele noted that the only area large enough at Civic Center Park to accommodate both a competition and recreation pool is in the northeast corner of the park that includes the Date Grove. This site can accommodate 164 parking spaces by placing two parking spaces between each date tree. The parking lot can also serve as overflow parking for the ball fields and park. The public would enter the site via Magnesia Falls. The amenities include men's, women's, and family changing/restroom facilities; an instruction%birthday party room; a concession area with a window also facing out to the park to serve park visitors; shaded picnic areas; mechanical room; offices; and storage. 2 G:IPubWorkslMeetingslParks and Rec Commission120091Agenda-Minutes12 009109-1 5-09 Final Minutes.docx PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES SEPTEMBER 15, 2009 There are will be recreational and competition pools at the site. The competition pool will accommodate long course (50 meters) and short course (25 yards) meets and includes a diving well with two 3-meter and two 1-meter diving boards. A shade structure will divide the competition pool from the recreation pool. Bleacher seating is located on the east side of the competition pool. The recreational pool will have a zero-depth entry with various sprays and play features leading into a 25-yard instructional/therapy pool that can be converted to water volleybalt or basketball courts. This area will also have a catch pool with two water slides that will not be visible from outside the park, and shade structures along the sides to shield people in the shallow water. The recreational pool will also be kept at a warmer temperature for children and for use as a therapy pool, and will include stairs in the water for children to sit on during instructional classes. Mr. John Wohlmuth noted that he's met with City and Desert Recreation District staff and Mr. Moeller. A pool will increase park usage and he thinks the design works well for the Date Grove, which will appear unchanged. He also noted that having the entrance on Magnesia Falls keeps additional traffic off San Pablo and Fred Waring, and that a 50-meter pool will better serve citizens than would a smaller size pool. Mr. Moeller described the various renditions of the designs. He noted that only two date trees will be lost in the current design. Although only the trees not directly over the parking area will actually be farmed, all of the trees could be farmed because the use of the area around them for parking will not harm their root system. Because of this, additional parking could be available under the trees along the edges of the grove. Effluent water from filter cleaning can be salvaged and used to irrigate the trees � and as well as areas in the park. Commissioner Dawson asked about noise abatement for the residents across the San Pascual Channel. Mr. Moeller noted that the homes are several hundred feet away, there is an existing berm, and the bleacher orientation is set up to minimize the noise level. He also noted that pools are generally not noise generators, the pump system is not too loud, and from a noise minimizing standpoint everything that can be done has been addressed in the plans. Commissioner Guyer asked about maximum capacity, and commented that he thinks that the recreational pool will see heavier usage. Mr. Moeller stated that the�aquatic center capacity (based on water surface calculations by the Fire Department) is 1,200 people, and he agreed that the recreational pool will see higher usage. Commissioner Guyer noted that the recreational pools at some of the pool sites they visited were heavily used while the competition pools were not. He feels that the 3 G:1PubWorkslMeetingslParks and Rec Commission\20091Agenda-Minutes12009109-15-09 Final Minutes.docx PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES SEPTEMBER 15, 2009 aquatic center could see full capacity, but with the majority of the visitors wanting to use only the recreational pool and its amenities. Commissioner Housken asked if the pool can accommodate water polo. Mr. Moeller responded that the pool is able to accommodate both men's and women's water polo, and would also meet NCAA requirements. Commissioner Housken further inquired about the depth of the areas that would be used for water polo. Mr. Moeller replied that the pool has been designed to accommodate as many uses as possible, and while there is an area he referred to as a "shallow end L" that provides an area of 3.5 feet or less, the depths of the areas to be used for water polo are the required depths. He also noted that there will be no bulkhead. Commissioner Housken also questioned if it would be necessary to move the lane lines to reach the diving area. Ms. Steele stated that it would depend on the operator and how the pool is programmed. She provided examples of how it can be used in different configurations at different times. Commissioner Housken asked how many lanes would be in each direction. Mr. Moeller responded that there will be nine or ten lanes in the 50-meter direction, and about 20 to 24 in the 25-yard direction. He stated that the pool will not have a 25-meter course. Commissioner Guyer asked how many 50-meter competitions are held statewide. Mr. Moeller was uncertain but estimated that it is a very large number, possibly as many as 300 pools can accommodate that length. Commissioner Guyer is trying to determine if there is a demand for this length. Mr. Moeller enumerated various cities and venues throughout Southern California, including Palm Springs, that have 50-meter pools, but noted that not all are open to the public. Mr. Jeff Ronci, Desert Recreational District, noted �that the Palm Springs complex was never designed to accommodate a large number of people. There is also not enough deck space or a separate warm up/warm down pool. He added that the pools currently available for long course competition are Belmont, in Long Beach; and the La Mirada complex. Belmont is an aging, indoor facility and there has been discussion on closing or remodeling it. It would be closed for at least two years if a remodel is performed. The outdoor La Mirada complex is also heavily used. Mr. Ronci feels that a facility in the desert could attract competition during the winter months due to the mild climate. It's possible that a desert facility designed to accommodate large competitions could attract numerous meets to the area. Commissioner Guyer asked about the length of the long course season to which Mr. Ronci replied that it begins in February and continues through July. Van Tanner asked about the length of ineets, the number of competitors who attend, and their age groups. Mr. Ronci stated that meets are typically three to five days long, and draw approximately 1,000 to 1,200 competitors per meet in age groups ranging from five to 18 years old. If 4 6.-IPub WorkslMeetingslParks and ftec Commission120091Agenda-Minutes12009109-15-09 Fina/Minutes.docx PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES SEPTEMBER 15, 2009 you can attract sectional meets, you could draw college age competitors. The pool would be closed to the public during meets, which is typical. Mr. Tanner asked how many meets are held throughout Southern California. Mr. Ronci replied that he is unable to answer that question, but stated that Eastern Section meets for short course are approximately two meets per month, and during long course season they run one meet per month. They are only able to run one long course meet per month strictly due to lack of facilities. He noted that teams have also been shut out of ineets. In regard to the recreational pool, Commissioner Housken asked if it would include a water resistance feature. Ms. Steele replied that the City Council is not interested in this type of feature. Mr. Tanner asked if there is major interest in diving competitions. Commissioner Housken responded that there is still interest but it's unusual to find diving boards at high schools these days. Mr. Moeller noted that if you have a meet and a team attends with diving team members and there is no diving area, the home team loses points. Ms. Steele noted that diving boards are also a good recreational amenity, and that the higher boards are much safer now. Mr. Moeller discussed California building codes as related to pool designs and required diving depths. Due to code changes, older pools that no longer met the required depth for diving removed their diving boards. Chairman Barnard asked Ms. Steele about operating revenue and expense figures. Ms. Steele stated that new projections were not calculated. Going back to 2005 estimates, which she believes have not changed significantly, approximately 65-75 percent of operating expenses could be recovered depending on entry fees. The expense costs � presented are worst case scenario�and project keeping tMe recreational � and competition pools open 363 days per year. Costs would be less with shorter operating hours. Chairman Barnard asked if selecting the Date Grove site would affect COD's participation. Commissioner Schukart stated that COD is very supportive of the project, and this site doesn't affect their participation. COD has funds set aside to contribute to this project. Mr. Tanner asked if COD would again have a swim team. Commissioner Schukart said it is a different issue, but iYs possible. Mr. Ford asked about equipment designed to cool the water during the summer. Mr. Moeller stated that no particular equipment has yet been specified, but they are considering a heat pump system to heat and cool the water. Ms. Steele noted that it is too early in the process to have these types of details, and these details would be worked out during the full design process. 5 G:IPubWorkslMeetingslParks and Rec Commission120091Agenda-Minutes12009109-15-09 Final Minutes.docx PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES SEPTEMBER 15, 2009 Commissioner Dawson asked about emergency medical technician (EMT) access. Mr. Moeller noted that EMTs will be able to drive directly on to the pool deck. Mr. Moeller noted that there are several traffic lanes in the parking area so a bottleneck situation shouldn't be a problem. Commissioner Dawson asked about accessing the ball fields from the parking area. Ms. Steele stated that additional sidewalks may be a possibility. He asked if additional parking were going to be considered closer to the ball field. Mr. Wohlmuth noted that the City Council established the Date Grove 15 years ago in acknowledgement of the historical connection that date trees have to the City. He stated the parking could be expanded if fewer date trees were farmed, but in maintaining sensitivity to the Council's original intent, the parking was designed so that there will be minimal change to the look of the Date Grove from the street. Commissioner Guyer asked about lighting. Mr. Moeller noted there will be underwater and sports lighting, and it will be shorter than the date trees. Ms. Steele added that for most pool uses, the use of the lights facing away from the residential area would be sufficient. Area residents would most likely be notified if there were a large meet requiring use of all of the lights. Commissioner Guyer asked how the lights would affect Monterey Country Club. Commissioner Schukart noted that it wouldn't be worse than the light already cast by the ball field lights. Commissioner Housken asked if there were plans to have the pool partially covered. Ms. Steele stated that no part of the pool will be covered, but pointed out the shade structures around the pool edges. Commissioner Dash stated that he strongly supports the project as presented. He asked if it would be helpful if several commissioners were to make a formal presentation to the Council as opposed to simply making a recommendation. Would it have a larger impact on the City Council's decision? Councilman Kelly stated that if the Commission strongly supports the site and design, they need to take a strong position and make that position known to the Council in whatever way they determine is best. Mr. Wohlmuth stated that the next step, should the Commission vote to approve the site and conceptual design, would be for staff is to take it to the City Council for approval. If the Council approves the recommendation, a Request for Proposals for architectural and engineering services will go out. Once the design is finalized, bids would be obtained. Mr. Wohlmuth indicated that his challenge was to get the costs under $10 million. Because of the economy, bids lately have been 6 G:IPub WorkslMeetingslParks and Rec Commission120091Agenda-Minutes12 009109-1 5-09 Final Minutes.docx s PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES SEPTEMBER 15, 2009 very competitive on road work and other construction, and he hopes same would hold true for the pool construction. Commissioner Schukart asked Ms. Steele about cost recovery data and noted that the City Council has also been very interested in that data. He thinks that the Commission has been too tentative on this issue. He asked when this data should be provided. Commissioner Guyer noted that it was presented to the City Council, and the Council saw too many amenities in the previous plan. He noted there was a direct relationship between the number of amenities and revenue. He sees that while the program has been downsized, it will cost the City more. Ms. Steele stated that she can look back at the previous cost recovery data, but she doesn't think it has changed significantly and she will include that data in the staff report to the City Council. Commissioner Guyer thinks that being locked into these amenities creates a problem, and that most of the revenues will come from the recreational portion of the pool. He understands that the City Council wasn't receptive to the previously proposed amenities, but in order to make this project economically viable, he feels they are necessary. He's concerned that we will be unable to modify the design in the future, as a number of other complexes are now faced with doing. His concern is that the recreational portion of the complex will be overused while the competition portion will be underused. Commissioner Housken noted the previous operational cost recovery data that showed that the best bang for the buck is the recreational component and not the competitive portion. She was amazed at the on-going operational costs. The earlier survey indicated that everyone wanted the recreational amenities and nobody wanted a lap pool. Ms. Steele noted that she has provided the worst case operational cost scenario in this presentation. It will depend on the usage fees that are adopted. Mr. Tanner asked whether there was still consideration for a regional facility in the north sphere that would be primarily for recreational use. Commissioner Guyer recalled that the discussion was about the difference between a municipal aquatic complex and a municipal activity center, and that the northern sphere would have an activity center. He also noted that the residents' survey wants more recreational area, but we still want to have a competition pool because it's a good draw. The operating funds would come primarily from the recreational area. He's concerned that there's no room for expansion at this site. Commissioner Schukart moved that the Parks and Recreation Commission support the initial physical layout of the complex and recommend that the City Council approve of the design concept and site location. Commissioner Dawson seconded; however, Commission Guyer asked him to repeat the motion, which he did. Commissioner Dawson again seconded the motion. 7 GIPubWorkslMeeting5lParks and Rec Commission120091Agenda-Minutes12 009109-1 5-09 Final Minutes.docx PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES SEPTEMBER 15, 2009 Commissioner Housken asked about consideration of solar heating for the pool. Mr. Moeller stated that solar heating for the water would work very well and would be considered. Commissioner Guyer asked if there was any chance that this design allows for expansion of the amenities. Mr. Moeller said it did. There is expansion area available to the south. Commissioner Guyer asked if the Commission approves the site and design and the City Council says there is not enough revenue to justify the project, do they have the ability to add amenities to enhance the revenue. Mr. Moeller said, yes, but not a current channel. Mr. Moeller noted that there are always new amenities and thinks the area to the south is the area for any new amenities. A Motion to support the initial physical layout of the pool complex and the recommendation for approval by the City Council of the design concept and site location was made by Commissioner Schukart, seconded by Commissioner Dawson, and carried by a 6-0 vote with Commissioners Babcock, Hall, and Munson ABSENT. VII. REPORTS AND UPDATES A. CITY OF PALM DESERT REORGANIZATION Ms. Steele noted that she had included the City's new organizational chart with the agenda packet. Commissioner Dawson asked if it were permanent or temporary. Mr. Wohlmuth stated that it is permanent until the next budget session. � VIII. COMMENTS � Ms. Steele noted with great disappointment that Commissioner Julie Munson has submitted her resignation due to her husband's health. Commissioner Dawson asked if the City Council would send letter of appreciation or should the Commission send one. Ms. Steele stated that she forwarded the resignation to Mayor Spiegel and is waiting for a response. IX. ADJOURNMENT Upon motion by Commissioner Dawson, seconded by Commissioner Guyer, the meeting was�adjourned at 9:57 a.m. , � � ; 1� �'? Beth Longman, F�„ cording Secretary s G:IPubWorkslMeetingslParks and Rec Commission120091Agenda-Minutes12 009109-1 5-09 Fina/Minutes.docx