HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks & Rec Cmsn - 09/15/09 ���
CITY OF PALM DESERT
� � PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
INTEROFFICE MEMORANDUM
TO: Rachelle D. Klassen, City Clerk n
,
FROM: Beth Longman, Administrative Secretary ��`�
DATE: October 6, 2009
SUBJECT: Submission of Minutes for the Parks and Recreation
Commission
Attached is a copy of the approved Minutes from the September 15, 2009, meeting of
the Parks and Recreation Commission. This meeting was a special meeting called to
discuss the aquatic center.
Please let me know if you have any questions or need additional information. Thank
you.
Attachment (as noted)
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G:\PubWorks\Meetings\Parks and Rec Commission\Minute Transmittal.doc
CITY OF PALM DESERT
��•�� PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION
� �
MINUTES
SEPTEMBER 15, 2009
I. CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Barnard convened the meeting at 8:32 a.m.
II. ROLL CALL
Present: Excused Absence
Chairman Michael Barnard Commissioner Julie Munson
Vice Chair Roger Dash (Munson on Leave of Absence)
Commissioner Jerry Dawson
Commissioner Randy Guyer Absent
Commissioner Kim Housken Commissioner Phill Babcock
Commissioner Terry Schukart Commissioner Deborah Hall
Staff Present:
Janis Steele, Parks and Recreation Services Manager
Jay Niemczak, Parks Facilities Manager
Mark Greenwood, Director of Public Works
Beth Longman, Administrative/Recording Secretary
� Ryan Stendell, Senior Management Analyst � �
John Wohlmuth, City Manager
Guests:
Barb Adair, Desert Recreation District
Rod Ballew, YMCA of the Desert
Craig DeWitt, Desert Recreation District
Stan Ford, Desert Recreation District
Dick Kelly, Councilman
Laura McGalliard, Desert Recreation District
Ken Moeller, Arch Pac Aquatics
Jeff Ronci, Desert Recreation District
Van Tanner, Chairman of Planning Commission
Gina Tenorio, The Desert Sun
Ana Escalenta, ESCalente Architects
Alex Meyerhoff, ESCalente Architects
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PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
MINUTES SEPTEMBER 15, 2009
III. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
Rod Ballew commented that on September 19, 2009, there will be a free
flag football clinic for children ages six to 12 years, and that an adult
league is also beginning.
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. MINUTES OF THE MEETING FROM SEPTEMBER 1, 2009
The Minutes of the meeting of September 1, 2009, were approved as
submitted. Motion moved/seconded by Guyer/Dawson, and carried
by a 6-0 vote with Commissioners Babcock, Hall and Munson
ABSENT.
V. UNFINISHED BUSINESS - None
VI. NEW BUSINESS
A. RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY COUNCIL ON SITE AND
AMENITIES OF THE COMMUNITY AQUATIC CENTER
Ms. Janis Steele stated that the City Manager requested staff to revisit the
concept of a community pool. Ms. Steele introduced Mr. Ken Moeller,
Arch Pac Aquatics, who prepared the current plans and who has worked
on previous plans for pool sites for the City of Palm Desert. Ms. Steele
reviewed the previously proposed sites and noted that the original College
of the Desert (COD) site was a different size now than in previous plans
� because the �driving range has been extended, which � substantially
reduces the parking available at that site. Mr. Moeller noted that golf balls
from the driving range may be a problem.
Ms. Steele noted that the only area large enough at Civic Center Park to
accommodate both a competition and recreation pool is in the northeast
corner of the park that includes the Date Grove. This site can
accommodate 164 parking spaces by placing two parking spaces between
each date tree. The parking lot can also serve as overflow parking for the
ball fields and park. The public would enter the site via Magnesia Falls.
The amenities include men's, women's, and family changing/restroom
facilities; an instruction%birthday party room; a concession area with a
window also facing out to the park to serve park visitors; shaded picnic
areas; mechanical room; offices; and storage.
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PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
MINUTES SEPTEMBER 15, 2009
There are will be recreational and competition pools at the site. The
competition pool will accommodate long course (50 meters) and short
course (25 yards) meets and includes a diving well with two 3-meter and
two 1-meter diving boards. A shade structure will divide the competition
pool from the recreation pool. Bleacher seating is located on the east side
of the competition pool. The recreational pool will have a zero-depth entry
with various sprays and play features leading into a 25-yard
instructional/therapy pool that can be converted to water volleybalt or
basketball courts. This area will also have a catch pool with two water
slides that will not be visible from outside the park, and shade structures
along the sides to shield people in the shallow water. The recreational
pool will also be kept at a warmer temperature for children and for use as
a therapy pool, and will include stairs in the water for children to sit on
during instructional classes.
Mr. John Wohlmuth noted that he's met with City and Desert Recreation
District staff and Mr. Moeller. A pool will increase park usage and he
thinks the design works well for the Date Grove, which will appear
unchanged. He also noted that having the entrance on Magnesia Falls
keeps additional traffic off San Pablo and Fred Waring, and that a
50-meter pool will better serve citizens than would a smaller size pool.
Mr. Moeller described the various renditions of the designs. He noted that
only two date trees will be lost in the current design. Although only the
trees not directly over the parking area will actually be farmed, all of the
trees could be farmed because the use of the area around them for
parking will not harm their root system. Because of this, additional parking
could be available under the trees along the edges of the grove. Effluent
water from filter cleaning can be salvaged and used to irrigate the trees
� and as well as areas in the park.
Commissioner Dawson asked about noise abatement for the residents
across the San Pascual Channel. Mr. Moeller noted that the homes are
several hundred feet away, there is an existing berm, and the bleacher
orientation is set up to minimize the noise level. He also noted that pools
are generally not noise generators, the pump system is not too loud, and
from a noise minimizing standpoint everything that can be done has been
addressed in the plans.
Commissioner Guyer asked about maximum capacity, and commented
that he thinks that the recreational pool will see heavier usage. Mr.
Moeller stated that the�aquatic center capacity (based on water surface
calculations by the Fire Department) is 1,200 people, and he agreed that
the recreational pool will see higher usage. Commissioner Guyer noted
that the recreational pools at some of the pool sites they visited were
heavily used while the competition pools were not. He feels that the
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PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
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aquatic center could see full capacity, but with the majority of the visitors
wanting to use only the recreational pool and its amenities.
Commissioner Housken asked if the pool can accommodate water polo.
Mr. Moeller responded that the pool is able to accommodate both men's
and women's water polo, and would also meet NCAA requirements.
Commissioner Housken further inquired about the depth of the areas that
would be used for water polo. Mr. Moeller replied that the pool has been
designed to accommodate as many uses as possible, and while there is
an area he referred to as a "shallow end L" that provides an area of 3.5
feet or less, the depths of the areas to be used for water polo are the
required depths. He also noted that there will be no bulkhead.
Commissioner Housken also questioned if it would be necessary to move
the lane lines to reach the diving area. Ms. Steele stated that it would
depend on the operator and how the pool is programmed. She provided
examples of how it can be used in different configurations at different
times. Commissioner Housken asked how many lanes would be in each
direction. Mr. Moeller responded that there will be nine or ten lanes in the
50-meter direction, and about 20 to 24 in the 25-yard direction. He stated
that the pool will not have a 25-meter course.
Commissioner Guyer asked how many 50-meter competitions are held
statewide. Mr. Moeller was uncertain but estimated that it is a very large
number, possibly as many as 300 pools can accommodate that length.
Commissioner Guyer is trying to determine if there is a demand for this
length. Mr. Moeller enumerated various cities and venues throughout
Southern California, including Palm Springs, that have 50-meter pools, but
noted that not all are open to the public. Mr. Jeff Ronci, Desert
Recreational District, noted �that the Palm Springs complex was never
designed to accommodate a large number of people. There is also not
enough deck space or a separate warm up/warm down pool. He added
that the pools currently available for long course competition are Belmont,
in Long Beach; and the La Mirada complex. Belmont is an aging, indoor
facility and there has been discussion on closing or remodeling it. It would
be closed for at least two years if a remodel is performed. The outdoor La
Mirada complex is also heavily used. Mr. Ronci feels that a facility in the
desert could attract competition during the winter months due to the mild
climate. It's possible that a desert facility designed to accommodate large
competitions could attract numerous meets to the area. Commissioner
Guyer asked about the length of the long course season to which Mr.
Ronci replied that it begins in February and continues through July. Van
Tanner asked about the length of ineets, the number of competitors who
attend, and their age groups. Mr. Ronci stated that meets are typically
three to five days long, and draw approximately 1,000 to 1,200
competitors per meet in age groups ranging from five to 18 years old. If
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PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
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you can attract sectional meets, you could draw college age competitors.
The pool would be closed to the public during meets, which is typical. Mr.
Tanner asked how many meets are held throughout Southern California.
Mr. Ronci replied that he is unable to answer that question, but stated that
Eastern Section meets for short course are approximately two meets per
month, and during long course season they run one meet per month.
They are only able to run one long course meet per month strictly due to
lack of facilities. He noted that teams have also been shut out of ineets.
In regard to the recreational pool, Commissioner Housken asked if it
would include a water resistance feature. Ms. Steele replied that the City
Council is not interested in this type of feature.
Mr. Tanner asked if there is major interest in diving competitions.
Commissioner Housken responded that there is still interest but it's
unusual to find diving boards at high schools these days. Mr. Moeller
noted that if you have a meet and a team attends with diving team
members and there is no diving area, the home team loses points. Ms.
Steele noted that diving boards are also a good recreational amenity, and
that the higher boards are much safer now. Mr. Moeller discussed
California building codes as related to pool designs and required diving
depths. Due to code changes, older pools that no longer met the required
depth for diving removed their diving boards.
Chairman Barnard asked Ms. Steele about operating revenue and
expense figures. Ms. Steele stated that new projections were not
calculated. Going back to 2005 estimates, which she believes have not
changed significantly, approximately 65-75 percent of operating expenses
could be recovered depending on entry fees. The expense costs
� presented are worst case scenario�and project keeping tMe recreational �
and competition pools open 363 days per year. Costs would be less with
shorter operating hours.
Chairman Barnard asked if selecting the Date Grove site would affect
COD's participation. Commissioner Schukart stated that COD is very
supportive of the project, and this site doesn't affect their participation.
COD has funds set aside to contribute to this project. Mr. Tanner asked if
COD would again have a swim team. Commissioner Schukart said it is a
different issue, but iYs possible.
Mr. Ford asked about equipment designed to cool the water during the
summer. Mr. Moeller stated that no particular equipment has yet been
specified, but they are considering a heat pump system to heat and cool
the water. Ms. Steele noted that it is too early in the process to have
these types of details, and these details would be worked out during the
full design process.
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PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
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Commissioner Dawson asked about emergency medical technician (EMT)
access. Mr. Moeller noted that EMTs will be able to drive directly on to the
pool deck. Mr. Moeller noted that there are several traffic lanes in the
parking area so a bottleneck situation shouldn't be a problem.
Commissioner Dawson asked about accessing the ball fields from the
parking area. Ms. Steele stated that additional sidewalks may be a
possibility. He asked if additional parking were going to be considered
closer to the ball field. Mr. Wohlmuth noted that the City Council
established the Date Grove 15 years ago in acknowledgement of the
historical connection that date trees have to the City. He stated the
parking could be expanded if fewer date trees were farmed, but in
maintaining sensitivity to the Council's original intent, the parking was
designed so that there will be minimal change to the look of the Date
Grove from the street.
Commissioner Guyer asked about lighting. Mr. Moeller noted there will be
underwater and sports lighting, and it will be shorter than the date trees.
Ms. Steele added that for most pool uses, the use of the lights facing away
from the residential area would be sufficient. Area residents would most
likely be notified if there were a large meet requiring use of all of the lights.
Commissioner Guyer asked how the lights would affect Monterey Country
Club. Commissioner Schukart noted that it wouldn't be worse than the
light already cast by the ball field lights.
Commissioner Housken asked if there were plans to have the pool
partially covered. Ms. Steele stated that no part of the pool will be
covered, but pointed out the shade structures around the pool edges.
Commissioner Dash stated that he strongly supports the project as
presented. He asked if it would be helpful if several commissioners were
to make a formal presentation to the Council as opposed to simply making
a recommendation. Would it have a larger impact on the City Council's
decision? Councilman Kelly stated that if the Commission strongly
supports the site and design, they need to take a strong position and
make that position known to the Council in whatever way they determine
is best.
Mr. Wohlmuth stated that the next step, should the Commission vote to
approve the site and conceptual design, would be for staff is to take it to
the City Council for approval. If the Council approves the
recommendation, a Request for Proposals for architectural and
engineering services will go out. Once the design is finalized, bids would
be obtained. Mr. Wohlmuth indicated that his challenge was to get the
costs under $10 million. Because of the economy, bids lately have been
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PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
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very competitive on road work and other construction, and he hopes same
would hold true for the pool construction.
Commissioner Schukart asked Ms. Steele about cost recovery data and
noted that the City Council has also been very interested in that data. He
thinks that the Commission has been too tentative on this issue. He
asked when this data should be provided. Commissioner Guyer noted
that it was presented to the City Council, and the Council saw too many
amenities in the previous plan. He noted there was a direct relationship
between the number of amenities and revenue. He sees that while the
program has been downsized, it will cost the City more. Ms. Steele stated
that she can look back at the previous cost recovery data, but she doesn't
think it has changed significantly and she will include that data in the staff
report to the City Council. Commissioner Guyer thinks that being locked
into these amenities creates a problem, and that most of the revenues will
come from the recreational portion of the pool. He understands that the
City Council wasn't receptive to the previously proposed amenities, but in
order to make this project economically viable, he feels they are
necessary. He's concerned that we will be unable to modify the design in
the future, as a number of other complexes are now faced with doing. His
concern is that the recreational portion of the complex will be overused
while the competition portion will be underused. Commissioner Housken
noted the previous operational cost recovery data that showed that the
best bang for the buck is the recreational component and not the
competitive portion. She was amazed at the on-going operational costs.
The earlier survey indicated that everyone wanted the recreational
amenities and nobody wanted a lap pool. Ms. Steele noted that she has
provided the worst case operational cost scenario in this presentation. It
will depend on the usage fees that are adopted.
Mr. Tanner asked whether there was still consideration for a regional
facility in the north sphere that would be primarily for recreational use.
Commissioner Guyer recalled that the discussion was about the difference
between a municipal aquatic complex and a municipal activity center, and
that the northern sphere would have an activity center. He also noted that
the residents' survey wants more recreational area, but we still want to
have a competition pool because it's a good draw. The operating funds
would come primarily from the recreational area. He's concerned that
there's no room for expansion at this site.
Commissioner Schukart moved that the Parks and Recreation
Commission support the initial physical layout of the complex and
recommend that the City Council approve of the design concept and site
location. Commissioner Dawson seconded; however, Commission Guyer
asked him to repeat the motion, which he did. Commissioner Dawson
again seconded the motion.
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PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
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Commissioner Housken asked about consideration of solar heating for the
pool. Mr. Moeller stated that solar heating for the water would work very
well and would be considered.
Commissioner Guyer asked if there was any chance that this design
allows for expansion of the amenities. Mr. Moeller said it did. There is
expansion area available to the south. Commissioner Guyer asked if the
Commission approves the site and design and the City Council says there
is not enough revenue to justify the project, do they have the ability to add
amenities to enhance the revenue. Mr. Moeller said, yes, but not a current
channel. Mr. Moeller noted that there are always new amenities and
thinks the area to the south is the area for any new amenities.
A Motion to support the initial physical layout of the pool complex
and the recommendation for approval by the City Council of the
design concept and site location was made by Commissioner
Schukart, seconded by Commissioner Dawson, and carried by a 6-0
vote with Commissioners Babcock, Hall, and Munson ABSENT.
VII. REPORTS AND UPDATES
A. CITY OF PALM DESERT REORGANIZATION
Ms. Steele noted that she had included the City's new organizational chart
with the agenda packet. Commissioner Dawson asked if it were
permanent or temporary. Mr. Wohlmuth stated that it is permanent until
the next budget session.
� VIII. COMMENTS �
Ms. Steele noted with great disappointment that Commissioner Julie
Munson has submitted her resignation due to her husband's health.
Commissioner Dawson asked if the City Council would send letter of
appreciation or should the Commission send one. Ms. Steele stated that
she forwarded the resignation to Mayor Spiegel and is waiting for a
response.
IX. ADJOURNMENT
Upon motion by Commissioner Dawson, seconded by Commissioner
Guyer, the meeting was�adjourned at 9:57 a.m.
,
�
� ;
1� �'?
Beth Longman, F�„ cording Secretary
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