HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - Citizens Sustainability Committee 10/19/2011MINUTES
PALM DESERT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE
WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2011
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CALL TO ORDER
Chair Langford called the meeting to order at 10:00 a.m.
ROLL CALL
CITY COUNCIL ACTION
APPROVED DFNTIFD
Members Present:
RECEIVED I F; IP OTIIEIt
Bruce Kassler
Luke Taylor MEETING DATE
John Greenwood
�T
Ellis "Cleve" LangM11ENT-
Robert Leo, Vice-. ' N o o
None
Eric Freed __ _
ABSTAIN: ' 0e-
David Koller _
VERIFIED BY:
Ralph Raya
Original on File with City Clced's Oflice
Members Absent:
Joe Norbeck
Staff Present:
Missy Wightman, Assistant Planner
Tony Becker, Administrative Secretary
Lauri Aylaian, Director of Community Development
Lisa Ream, Recycling Technician
Martin Alvarez, Redevelopment Manager
Frankie Riddle, Director of Special Programs
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Request approval of the August 31, 2011 meeting minutes.
Action: Member Leo moved and Member Greenwood seconded approval of the
August 31, 2011 minutes.
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PALM DESERT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE October 19 2011
IV. ORAL COMMUNICATION
NONE
V. NEW BUSINESS
A. Plastic Bag ban discussion.
Ms. Wightman introduced information proposing an ordinance that
would ban plastic bags in the City of Palm Desert. Ms. Wightman
referenced a handout that the City of Santa Monica prepared for their
ban on plastic bags. It showed the tiers/levels of implementation of the
ban and its impact on various sizes of businesses. The City of Santa
Monica banned plastic bags from all grocery/retail stores and
pharmacies and levied a 10 cent charge for paper bags. The 10 cents
is charged to the customer if they don't have a bag for their goods and
goes directly back to the stores as an incentive to promote reusable
bags to their patrons.
Ms. Wightman stated that the produce bags that hold fruit or
vegetables would be exempt from this ban. However, the ban may or
may not include take-out bags, but that would have to be discussed
since using biodegradable bags for take-out might not work if there are
liquids in the take-out, and they spill. Ms. Wightman asked for
comments.
A general comment was made about take-out containers and having
them switched to biodegradable. Ms. Riddle and Ms. Ream pointed out
that biodegradable containers sometimes disintegrate when in contact
with liquids, so that idea might not be prudent. Ms. Ream pointed out
that the Coachella Valley doesn't have a dirty MRF facility to handle
the Styrofoam or the biodegradable products that would enter the
recycle loads.
Mr. Kassler began by asking what kind of time frame the City of Santa
Monica gave the retailers to comply with this ban. Ms. Wightman
stated that the standard time frame is from six months to one year to
come into compliance. She also mentioned that the State of California
requires CEQA review to study the environmental impacts of such a
decision. Based on previous legislation, the City of Palm Desert [most
likely] would have to prepare a Negative Declaration before
implementing such a ban. It takes about eight months to prepare and
would be presented to the City Council before the ban would be
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PALM DESERT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE October 19, 2011
implemented. Ms. Wightman wanted to reiterate that the idea isn't to
ban plastic bags and have people use paper; the idea is to have
people switch to reusable bags exclusively and if they forget, then a
paper bag would be an alternative choice at a cost.
Mr. Raya asked what the various businesses in each of the tiers
thought of the ban. Ms. Aylaian stated that she recently attended a
workshop where Santa Monica gave a presentation on this topic. The
City conducted a study showing that implementation of the ban would
cost about 25 cents per bag. She mentioned that initially, all the
merchants were opposed to this ban. The City refined the ordinance,
reduced the per bag charge to 10 cent and passed the money onto the
merchants themselves. Once these changes were made, the
merchants came on board and the data show that this type of program
does indeed work. Mr. Kassler asked how long this took to implement.
Ms. Aylaian stated that actual implementation has been within the last
60 days, but the education process to the merchants and the
community has been over the last year.
Mr. Kassler stated that the success of this program is to mandate that
the retailers sell the reusable bags in their stores. Ms. Ream indicated
that was already a law in the state that grocery stores and pharmacies
of a certain size are required to sell those bags. She also stated that
she has recently noticed other stores selling them as well: Marshalls,
Ross and Home Goods to name a few. She also mentioned that some
comments that she has received about the bags is their washable
feature appears to be a selling point.
Mr. Greenwood asked if there was a way that the city could provide
these bags to people. Ms. Wightman indicated that she recently spoke
with Frankie Riddle and Ms. Riddle suggested that '939 funds' could be
used for something like this. These funds are exclusively used for the
purchase of recycled content products. Ms. Wightman asked the group
if the Santa Monica model is something that the committee wants to
follow or if they had their own ideas.
Mr. Koller stated that he liked the idea, but cautioned the use of the
word "tier" because that made people think of higher rates to pay,
since that is how water and electrical bills are jargoned. He suggested
using another word to indicate the level of implementation or adoption.
Mr. Koller also suggested that five cents of the recovery fee should go
to outreach.
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PALM DESERT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE October 19 2011
Mr. Freed commented on the implementation of this type of ban in the
City of San Francisco. He said that the city council there was unable to
come to a decision, so they put it out on a ballot measure for the
people to decide. It was overwhelmingly passed and became effective
for the whole city, save Chinatown. The city had done a study showing
that they spent nearly $750,000 per year on cleaning out the sewer
systems from plastic bags. So this ban would certainly help alleviate
that. Mr. Freed stated that the ban allowed for the use of
biodegradable bags (including PLA-aka 'corn plastic') and left the
decision up to the merchants as to what kind of bag they would use.
Ms. Riddle stated that was a good policy, but biodegradable might not
work well here, since the City of San Francisco has a `dirty MRF"
facility whereas the Coachella Valley hasn't one. The biodegradable
bags would still contaminate the recycling load. So it might be prudent
to promote the reusable bags.
Mr. Koller pointed out that if he had the option to just pay 10 cents for a
paper bag, then he'd opt to do that. But if he had to pay something like
40 cents for a bag, that would add up for a grocery trip with over five
bags. So if the idea is to change people's behavior and have them
purchase the reusable bag rather than use paper every time as a
convenience, then maybe the charge per bag should be higher.
Mr. Leo wanted to know what the city or this committee would do to
educate the public. There are many out there who simply don't know or
understand all of the implications of this matter. Ms. Riddle stated that
an education program already exists for this topic. The city always
uses education first and then also employs other measures to bring
people into compliance. Mr. Greenwood stated that he personally felt
that there would always be those people who just don't want to comply
and then it becomes a situation where the city just needs to make a
decision, educate people and they will [begrudgingly] comply. Mr.
Greenwood also wanted to know if Palm Desert had any figures on
what it costs to remove plastic bags from their sewers and gutters like
San Francisco did. Ms. Aylaian asked Mr. Koller if he could provide
CVWD's information on that for the sewers, and Ms. Wightman would
ask the Public Works department if they had any numbers on removal
of bags from the storm drains. Ms. Aylaian stated that in the EIR, the
only information presented would be the environmental information;
any financial impacts aren't part of an EIR.
Ms. Wightman quipped that plastic bags are called "urban
tumbleweeds".
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PALM DESERT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE October 19, 2011
Mr. Leo reminded the committee that there are those in the city who
can't afford to buy reusable bags. He indicated that there are seniors
on a fixed income that might not be able to participate and would ask
that the city possibly assist this group by giving some bags to those
who can't afford it, so they too could participate.
Mr. Kassler opined that the discussion is way too focused on cost. His
family purchased a few reusable bags a couple of years ago. They
haven't been destroyed or even become dirty. He feels that the focus
on small dollars such as this is distracting from the overall goal of the
ordinance and that is to eradicate plastic bags.
Ms. Wightman and Mr. Koller both verified that their grocery bags
never get dirty and the washable factor seemed to be a non-isse.
Ms. Wightman presented the fact that Sam's Club and Costco already
operate without plastic bags and consumers do not expect to bag their
items as they leave these stores. They re -use boxes and consumers
know this before they enter the store. Mr. Raya stated that the city
already has two good models in place: Sam's and Costco. People
already are trained to put their groceries in these boxes and take them
home. Many of the grocery stores have very large compactors, why not
just have them divert some of their boxes for grocery hauls instead of
compacting them? Ms. Riddle stated that was a good idea in theory,
but when people bring home their groceries in boxes, what happens to
the boxes after their use? Mr. Greenwood stated that he worked his
way through college at Costco and he knows that people just take their
groceries home and then discard the boxes in all sorts of non-
stackable ways. He guessed that the boxes (being paper) just end up
in the landfill rather than being recycled or reused.
Mr. Langford asked Ms. Wightman if she could provide one or two
more cities as examples of what they have done in their bag ban
ordinances. Ms. Wightman indicated that she previously sent links to
members' emails and would resend the link regarding other cities
requirements.
Mr. Raya wanted to know if CVAG has been contacted and if they will
be able to get the word out across the Coachella Valley. Ms. Riddle
stated that, so far, nothing valley -wide has been done.
Mr. Raya asked what the next steps would be. Ms. Wightman stated
that she would draft language for a model ordinance and go before the
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PALM DESERT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE October 19, 2011
City Council asking for their direction. If granted, then the CEQA
analysis will be performed, the ordinance finalized and then the
education and implementation of the ordinance would begin. Mr. Raya
wanted to know if the grocery stores would be invited to talk about how
this would impact them. Ms. Wightman stated that would be
appropriate, but not before council direction has been granted to move
forward.
Through a show of hands, members Freed, Taylor, Leo, Koller,
Kassler, Raya, and Greenwood stated this was an important topic that
needs to be addressed now and recommended the City Council move
forward. Member Langford stated he may be on board, but needed to
do some more research.
B. De-asphaltification and current parking requirements.
Ms. Wightman indicated that as of the last meeting where Mr. Freed
presented the concept of de-asphaltification, she was asked to
provide parking count requirements for various businesses in the City
of Palm Desert. To move forward with this concept she wanted to look
at the current parking standards and see the various areas parking
requirements and verify that they are or are not over parked in their
standards. Ms. Wightman asked for volunteers to conduct basic
parking studies on their own time at various locations around the city.
Nearly every member of the committee volunteered and Mr. Leo
mentioned that he had 15 students who would also be available to
count parking. Ms. Wightman stated that she has identified structures
with separate parking, since it can be difficult for the untrained eye to
count shared parking spaces in lots like Target or Trader Joe's where
many businesses share a common parking lot. Mr. Kassler stated that
Wal Mart should certainly be included in this count because they are
one of the largest parking lots and if any project could benefit from de-
asphaltification, it would be them. Ms. Wightman state these areas
would also be covered under the category, Regional Shopping
Districts.
Mr. Alvarez wanted to remind those who would be counting that
`season' is starting and those counts might be slightly higher than the
counts would be in the summer time. Mr. Freed reiterated that to
count parking after thanksgiving would skew the numbers. He also
stated that his intent of de-asphaltification was to have 1 % of the area
devoted to community gardens and 30% of the parking to be on
something other than asphalt (like grasspave).
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PALM DESERT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE October 19 2011
Ms. Wightman stated these changes would be included as a part of
zoning update where policies are not changed, but necessary
information updated to reflect current demand and laws. Mr.
Greenwood asked what could be changed in the code without having
to go before the council. Ms. Wightman stated that if a gas station, for
example, is required to have 10 parking spots under the current code
and that is over parked, then that could be adjusted. Mr. Kassler
asked what the city could do to help, because it wouldn't be feasible
to go ask a business to tear up their parking lot after it has been built
to the specifications that the city gave. Mr. Leo asked if the city could
institute a program like the Fagade Enhancement program, where the
city helps a business with the defrayment of some of the costs.
Ms. Wightman asked that the committee come up with some ideas for
the next meeting about how to incentivize this. She suggested that
maybe there should be a maximum parking standard, since there
already was a minimum standard. Mr. Freed stated that wouldn't work
because large businesses already build to their maximum allowable
parking because it's less confusing to calculate. Mr. Kassler stated
that he knew of someone high-up in the Wal Mart Corporation who
has been testing out the use of pavers in some locations and maybe
this person should be contacted to help move this idea forward.
Mr. Greenwood stated that he wanted to see a change in the shade
ordinance part of a parking lot. He stated that rather than having a
tree every six spaces where they didn't provide much shade in the
first place, and because many people don't park far out anyways; why
not just have all of the trees along the first two rows of the parking lot
where everyone parks and have the grasspave out farther. That alone
would incentivize people to park closer and would give the trees more
room to grow, rather than be in those small 'diamonds'. Ms. Wightman
said that is certainly something that the group and the Landscaping
Department should look at. Ms. Wightman also stated, other things to
consider are the lighting coefficient and the `heat island' effect. These
directly and indirectly impact the energy used to heat/cool the
buildings. Mr. Freed stated that could be changed by using cool -roofs.
Ms. Wightman stated that some of these other changes are policy
decisions and would likely require City Council approval.
VII. OLD BUSINESS
A. Outdoor lighting update.
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PALM DESERT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE October 19 2011
Ms. Wightman stated that she and Mr. Raya have looked through the
ordinance and taken out duplicate information that exists throughout
various sections. Mr. Raya will be looking at the technical information
and then they will report back with their product.
B. Construction waste ordinance update.
Ms. Wightman stated that the internal review of the ordinance is
complete and will be going before the City Council for adoption soon.
Mr. Kassler wanted to know if this was the first ordinance that the
committee worked on that is going before the City Council. Ms.
Wightman stated that this is the first and the Lighting Ordinance would
be the second.
VI. COMMITTEE MEMBER COMMENTS
Mr. Freed stated that he loves the four items that the committee is
currently working on and has many more items to add. He also stated that
he is available to anyone who needs more information about de-
asphaltification.
Mr. Taylor stated that he still has issues with the bag ordinance. If it were
up to him, he would ban all plastic outright but that he understands that
some bags are required because they keep bacteria off food. Ms. Riddle
stated that the produce bags are an example: they keep bacteria from
settling on the food, where paper bags would help breed bacteria.
Mr. Leo stated that he wanted to see this ordinance created, passed and
then implemented.
Mr. Koller stated that he was chagrin at the bag ordinance at first until he
read and viewed the information that Ms. Wightman sent on the Pacific
Garbage Island. Now he is for the ban and wants to have many more
people see what plastic can do to the food chain and that alone may
change their habits.
Mr. Kassler commented that he wants to see this ordinance passed and
also that he's more excited about the de-asphaltification and wants to see
that fleshed out. He also indicated that he is curious to see what the
lighting ordinance will look like.
Mr. Langford stated that he wanted to see more information on the plastic
bag ban and wasn't for forcing people to change to reusable bags. He
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PALM DESERT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE October 19 2011
mentioned that he read that canvas bags carry the most bacteria and
germs on them. Ms. Wightman stated that was a good reason for the
promotion of washable reusable bags.
Mr. Raya stated that gone are the days where we could leave our doors
unlocked, our car keys in the running cars and a world without many
plastic bags. But now the world is different and this ban is important. Mr.
Raya also stated that the lighting ordinance would be forthcoming.
Mr. Greenwood commented that he was very proud to work and live in a
city that is the forerunner of projects like this. He is anxious to see this
ordinance go valley -wide and get support from entities like CVAG.
VII. ADJOURNMENT
Chair Langford called for a motion to adjourn. Mr. Leo motioned and Mr.
Koller seconded. The meeting was adjourned at 11:30 a.m.
ANTHONY BECKER
Recording Secretary
*These minutes, prepared by Tony Becker, have been reviewed and approved by Missy Grisa. Any
meeting attendee wishing to address a concern regarding the minutes must do so in writing to Tony
Becker within five business days of the issuance of the minutes. Otherwise, these minutes are
considered final.
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